Pivot - Trump's Tariff Pause, Apple's Highs and Lows, and Musk v. Navarro

Episode Date: April 11, 2025

Kara and Scott discuss President Trump pausing tariffs for 90 days, the escalating trade war with China, and the fallout for Apple amidst the tariff chaos. Then, Elon Musk and trade adviser Peter Navarro are feuding, but it’s okay, because as The White House says, “boys will be boys.” Plus, how SCOTUS is (mostly) cutting the red tape for Trump. Note: After this episode was recorded on Thursday, The White House said the tariff rate for China is now at 145%. It will likely change again. Many times. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on Bluesky at @pivotpod.bsky.social. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for the show comes from CyberArk. Did you know that 93% of organizations have experienced an identity-related breach in the last year? With cyberattacks on the rise, every identity in your organization is a potential target, so securing each one of those identities with the right level of privilege controls is essential. With CyberArk's Intelligent Privilege Controls, you can reimagine how workforce users are secured. You can modernize IT security, protect your developers, and scale and automate machine identity security. Take control of your identity security. Secure every identity with intelligence-privileged controls only from CyberArk. Learn more at cyberark.com slash vox. Support for this show comes

from Shopify. With Shopify, it's easy to create your brand, open up for business, and get your first sale. Use their customizable templates, powerful social media tools, and a single dashboard for managing it all. The best time to start your new business is right now, because established in 2025 has a nice ring to it, doesn't it? Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at Shopify.com slash Vox Business, all lowercase. Go to Shopify.com slash Vox Business to start selling with Shopify today. Shopify.com slash Vox Business.

It's 2025, so stop struggling to get your job post seen on other job sites. Indeed's sponsored jobs can help you stand out and hire the right people fast. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. Indeed's sponsored jobs can help you stand out and hire the right people fast. There's no need to wait any longer. Speed up your hiring right now with Indeed. And listeners of this show will get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more

visibility at indeed.com slash vox business. Just go to indeed.com slash vox business right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash VOX Business. Terms and conditions apply. Hiring? Indeed is all you need. It came with a car, a lovely car that said, love your private dancer, Scott.

I'm your private dancer, a dancer for money. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Kara Swisher. And I turn on the camera and I think, oh my God, she's finally done it. She's gone through transition. I'm like at 62, you be you. But it was your brother. It was Jeffrey Swisher. It was my brother. Yes, Jeff. Jeff claimed the thing. Yeah, I would look good as a man. I'd be a handsome man, I would say.

Yeah, I would. It's true. I'd be adorable. There's almost nothing I can say that works. Yes, exactly. Let me just say, something happened to me last night. I'm here in my new studio, which I'm working on getting nice and fixing up like yours. I get a present. A FedEx guy comes and brings something.

I had been contacted by your assistant MJ about sending me something. And I said, as long as it's not a stripper. You were going to send me a gift. I would never do that. As long as it's not a stripper. So what to my wondering eyes should appear than this? Let me explain the picture for people who can't see.

People who watch on YouTube and see, it's a picture of Scott about to lift his shirt to show off his tummy to the crowd at South by Southwest. And my face is like, oh my fucking God, how did I end up here? Sit down. Sit down. What series of bad decisions led me to this?

I love that photo. I saw that and I immediately said, by the way, that cost real money because some fucking Getty photographer took it. So I had to pay some, I don't know, Joey Bagadone at a tech company, 350 bucks to get that image. some fucking Getty photographer took it, so I had to pay some, I don't know, Joey Baggadone of tech company, 350 bucks to get that image.

Yeah, and the frame was lovely. I think that perfectly summarizes our relationship. I love that photo. And it's going on the shelf behind me so people can enjoy it and maybe, and then it came with a card, a lovely card that said, love your private dancer, Scott. Huh, huh?

That's right, That's right. I'm keeping this forever. I'm gonna be buried with this. Forever is not long at your age. Boom! Oh, thank you for your lovely gift. It was so thoughtful of a picture of you. I love that photo.

So speaking of things about you, you just announced your new book. I love the cover. I love the cover. Oh, thanks. You were the thing that tipped us over. I had all these pictures of me and I'm like, I, that, it's like, the book is called

Notes on Being a Man and I'm like, I'm not comfortable presenting myself as, you know, the aspirational man because it's just not true. But I like the more feminine writing, like notes and everything and yeah. Yeah, it's very, it's got a feminine tone to it. It looks lovely. It's elegant. I like the ones with your pictures on them, the one with you as a kid feminine tone to it. It looks lovely. It's elegant.

I like the ones with your pictures on them, one with you as a kid and as an adult. I like that, but that could be on the back, right, or inside or something like that. But this book isn't about me being the hero. It's mostly about my shortcomings and it's a lot of data and it's where I screwed up and what I learned about trying to lean into this more aspirational vision of masculinity.

But I was much more comfortable not having my picture on the front because I've decided the publishers pretty much do nothing but argue over the title and the cover. That's their job. They do. But they came up with this, so I got to give it to them. It was their idea, so I was real happy with it.

It's handsome. I think it's going to be a bestseller. Explain what's happening. It's coming out early. It's coming out in November. Yeah, I feel like I said to the publisher, we need to get this out sooner rather than later, and I got done early with it. Because I think the window of opportunity is closing. I think this notion of masculinity and what it means to be a man and leaning in and trying to create or shape a positive image of masculinity. I'm like, the window's closing, that this is the moment. We need to get this out. This is perishable.

Everyone from Josh Hawley to Tucker Carlson or writing books or talking about masculinity. So I said, let's- Manly tariffs will get down on them. There we go. I'm like, let's get this out. As a matter of fact, speaking of which, you didn't ask why I'm in a suit and a tie.

Why are you in a suit? I'm going on- You look very nice. Thank you matter of fact, speaking of which, you didn't ask why I'm in a suit and a tie. Why are you in a suit? I'm going on- You look very nice. Thank you, I appreciate that. I like when you dress up, it looks handsome. I appreciate that, thank you. I'm going on The View to talk about, my two topics are masculinity and tariffs.

How do you dress to talk about masculinity? Do you look like a professor or do I wear a Tarzan outfit? Like, what do I, How do you dress for that? So I just put on a suit. Well, how was it? Did you go already? No, I'm literally rocketing out of here. Okay, good. Let's get to it then. Anyway, you look great. Say hi to the ladies.

I love them. Tell the hi, say hi to Whoopi and everything. They're really great. So it's another busy news day. Scott, Jesus, nothing stops. It's nutty. So we're going to get right to it. Obviously, the big story is President Trump pressing pause on his quote unquote reciprocal tariffs for 90 days. I just don't want to use that word. It's just nonsense.

Bringing tariffs down to a universal 10% for most countries. He is hiking tariffs on China even higher to 125% in response to China's latest retaliation move, raising tariffs on the U.S. to 84 percent. The market skyrocketed on this pause news, although the Dow surged nearly 8 percent, but it had been down rather significantly. It's not quite back where it was, but the S&P 500 added 9.5 percent. The NASDAQ was up 12 percent its best day in 20 years, except that he had caused the decline, of course. He initially told American people to be cool about the terror of turmoil, later explained his reasoning for reversing course, which is, I'm sorry, just not true. But let's

listen anyway. Well, I quote that people were jumping a little bit out of line. They were getting yippy, you know? They were getting a little bit yippy, a little bit afraid. I'll tell you who was yippy, Donald Trump. That's what happened there. 100%. 100 friggin' percent. It's such a shift and they're trying to spin it as a victory. They created, it's like an arsonist explaining

how they put out the fire. The White House is spinning as the art of the deal victory, but you know, honestly, he made a mess. And now he's trying to recover it, but he was very spooked by, after a major Treasury bond sell-off with 10-year yields, briefly hitting 4.5 percent, which is insane because it means we have to pay more for bonds and then we'd have all this debt. And he acknowledged he was watching the bond market, saying people were getting a little

queasy again. He was watching the bond market, seeing people were getting a little queasy. Again, he was queasy. People have been telling—he told people not to become a panic hand, like a Republican, but a panicked Republican, a word he coined, apparently, a new party based on weak and stupid people. But honestly, he's the panic hand here. He panicked, and smartly so. It was a good reason to panic.

He's also been accused of market manipulation by some Democrats, including Senator Adam Schiff, who's calling for an investigation. Hours before announcing the pause that sent markets surging, Trump posted on True Social, this is a great time to buy. He put DJT at the end of his post as initials. But also the stock ticker for Trump media. Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick was asked by CNBC's Melissa Lee about Trump's actions in so many words. Let's listen to this clown. Earlier this morning before the pause, he put out a message saying it's a great time to buy. And here we are. Here we are. Much

higher. I know his pet on Donald Trump. Every time I know he's been on. He also wrote DJT, which is a ticker for for his media company. No, no, no. Every every time I just say every text he sends to me, that's his name. But that was a great time to buy the market, right? I mean, uncanny. Well, Donald, look. Donald Trump understands that America is the greatest country. We are the greatest country and we have the capacity for incredible greatness, but someone needs to take the shackles off.

I mean, he's such an idiot. Every time he speaks, I want to cringe. The White House is rejected and he claims they're wrong doing the same thing, just's such an idiot. I mean, every time he speaks, I want to cringe. The White House is rejected and he claims they're wrong doing, saying Trump just reassuring the markets. And Americans about economic astutity, but it just feels like a grift. So first let's talk about what's happened

and then we'll talk about what's next. So Scott, your take. The decent term for this president would be president blank. He blinked on TikTok, he blinked on this. And a friend of mine, Justin, who's the chief investment officer of Millennium, which is one of the most successful funds in history,

I had dinner with him Thursday night and I asked him about this and he said, oh yeah, no, he's gonna blink. The adult in the room here is the 10 year and the adult said, get your head out of your ass. And he was thinking that all of these nations would acquiesce to the biggest customer in the world. said, get your head out of your ass. And he was thinking that all of these nations would acquiesce to the biggest customer in the world.

And of course they didn't, they all imposed reciprocal tariffs. So you think, oh, this is gonna hurt Mexico. Sure, it'll hurt Mexico. They implement reciprocal tariffs and which makes goods brought in, imported from America more expensive. What Donald Trump decided to do or tried to do

was declare war on everyone all at once, meaning our entire, entire import economy goes up in price for Americans. The markets responded. I mean, quite frankly, that interview on CNBC just did not do her job. She was like, isn't this great? The markets are up.

No, even after the rip up yesterday, the markets gave up seven months of incredible gains. In three days, Apple lost the value of Walmart. And unfortunately, the market doesn't appear to have knee pads and just wanna like blow this guy. We are in, at some point, people are going to realize, we are in a car with a guy who's got his hands on the wheel,

who is blackout fucking drunk. The only person in the car saying, hey, maybe you should pull over and let someone else drive is the 10-year bond in the markets. Can you explain for people who don't understand what happens? If the bonds yields go up, that means we pay more for the money we borrow and so does everybody else mortgages everyone else credit cards student loan debt payments Mortgages the cost to borrow money and build another plant or hire more people

So you build fewer plants and hire fewer people the cost of everything goes up and when yields go up People say well, why wouldn't I just invest in the credit markets instead of the stock markets? And the stock market also goes down. So one of the many reasons for our incredible prosperity is America as a whole has access to cheaper credit. We can borrow money less to make forward leaning investments in any country in the world.

And when it spikes, it's basically saying, people are saying, you need to give us more because you become a riskier bet. And unfortunately, we talk a lot about toxic masculinity. The thing that's hurting America most right now is toxic uncertainty. And that is while he pulled the knife out of the back halfway yesterday by saying there was a pause,

because he blinked, let's be clear, the wound is gonna take years to heal. Because what's happening right now is the entire world is reconfiguring the supply chain around America. They don't want to use our services. They don't want to use our manufacturing. And initially he thought, okay, I'm going to accomplish a few things.

I'm going to bring jobs back to the U.S. I'm going to reshape global trade. I'm going to raise a bunch of revenues. None of that has happened. None of that has happened. None of that is going to happen. And by the way, he's blinked. And he said, no, just kidding.

In addition, just to go to the comment about the rip up here, and you sent me a text on this, and I was literally had just threaded something. Yesterday, April 9th, we'll go down in history, is the day where more insider trading took place than any day in history. I've been trying to figure out how to play this market. And the only thing I can figure out is the volatility

is to quite frankly, and I don't do this at home. I have the money to do this. Most people don't. And I do it at a small extent. And I imagine a worst case scenario because it is a risky strategy. But the way I've been playing it is I sell options because the VIX has gone way up.

So the price people have to pay you to write them an option, a call or a put goes up. So I've been writing calls. Now, yesterday I follow Apple. The calls at 200, right? We're trading at 40 cents because the stock was at like 170. The options in Apple went fucking crazy

about 10 minutes before its announcement. So somebody knew. And if you were like me and you were writing a call, I didn't do this, but if you wrote a call, someone had to pay you 40 cents because you sold it cheaply because it was way out of the money. Five minutes later, that call was worth $4. you 40 cents because you sold it cheaply because it was way out of the money.

Five minutes later, that call was worth $4. Just that one strip of options, someone made and lost a third of a billion dollars. And how did all of these people know about this before? So is it fair to speculate? I'm not accusing, I'm speculating. Well, when you have a guy that sets up a Swiss banking account in the form of a meme coin where anyone can put money in,

I mean, this administration has just shown such a lack of- Care. They might've just been on his signal group. I mean, who knows? Who knows? But word got out. They could have just, word got out for sure. This is the sloppiest, most poorest White House going.

And who knows who's nearby, who called people. Suddenly Bill Ackman turns from critic to what a great job deal. I'm sure he made money in this. I would love to see. Well, he just calls his biggest donors and goes, wink, wink, by the way, I just get the sense the market's going to go up today. I just get the sense. Yeah, exactly.

I'm reconsidering tariffs. And it's not hard to realize the market's going go up today. I just get the sense. I'm reconsidering tariffs, and it's not hard to realize the market's gonna rip up. And also, I will say, I interviewed Bill, I had a tariff bail yesterday, which is probably, actually it still holds up, but Bill was talking about these bonds. He said, the Japanese, and especially the Chinese,

can wreck our economy in two seconds. Not buy them, not do, you know, all kinds. They are our biggest creditors, and they can just push, put us down, just like by either not buying, flooding the markets with treasuries, making the yields go up. The fact that he didn't know this or didn't realize what a situation we're in because of the the treasury bonds is just, and to say like, it got the yips, he got the yips, and by the way, he should have gotten the fucking yips. Because

if that happened, it would have been a disastrous economic meltdown, the likes of which we would never have recovered from for decades. Like, that's the thing. He was this close to like taking us all over the edge. And the fact that he didn't does not deserve any credit. It does not deserve any good job, sir bullshit thatshit, like the Ackmans, who's such an oily factotum to Trump. But anyway, this is just temporary relief, though. We're now 90 days of uncertainty. What should companies be doing in the meantime? And these massive Chinese terrorists, the back and forths,

has been likened to a game of chicken. I think Trump blinks again. Mr. Yip blinks before she because they have the treasuries. They've got a lot of, again, we're doing favors for China over and over by this behavior. So what would you do if you're a company and talk about the China thing, because they were also touting we're now really focused on China, which by the way, we should have been focused in on the first place and not this fucking nonsense, this other tariff, but it's only 90 days. So thoughts?

Well, I can tell you what companies, non-U.S. companies are doing. They're rerouting their not this fucking nonsense, this other tariff. But it's only 90 days, so thoughts? Well, I can tell you what companies, non-U.S. companies are doing. They're rerouting their business plans and their supply chain and excising American vendors, manufacturers out of their supply chain. No more discounts, by the way, from China too, to Americans.

That will take years to repair. To give you a sense, the two stories that illuminate just how what a clown car our economic policymakers are right now is that one, it appears these strange tariffs that he initially thought he would impose on every country in the world, he declared were on everyone but once. So it goes back to the Winston Churchill quote, and he's credited with this, but especially as Victor Hugo that said it first, there's only one thing worse than fighting with allies and that is fighting without them. He's decided to fight the world without his allies. Is that all those ridiculous numbers around tariffs that we couldn't figure it out,

it ends up that somebody fed it into chat GPT and the exact numbers fed back. So they're using chat GPT to figure out economic policy. And then my favorite is the guy who has been the whisperer, the tariff whisperer is Peter Navarro, a senior policy and economic advisor. And it ends up that the book that Jared Kushner found, Death by China, by Peter Navarro, that supposedly is the Bible for this tariff strategy, cites this economist and all his policies, and it ends up the economist is fake. This person doesn't exist.

It's an anagram of his name. So this is what we have. We have Chat-GPT and a fake economist in a book that didn't sell dictating the economic policies of the largest economy in America. So who is going to win in this China? So if you're an American company, what should you do? Cause it's 90 days of uncertainty. He hasn't removed the uncertainty.

My view is the following, is that if someone is screaming nonsense at you and threatening you all the time, it is impossible to predict what is gonna happen tomorrow with this guy. So quite frankly, what do you do? I think you just, you keep calm and carry on. And that is you don't change your plans.

You know, you may be quite frankly diversify a little bit from not, this is so hard to predict that my feeling is when you don't know who you're waking up next to the next morning, you just carry on with your life. Yeah, no gold in the yard and a hole or anything like that. Oh, no. Well, from an investor standpoint, we talked about this last week. I won't give it financial advice.

I'll just tell you what I've been doing for the last five months. Not because I have insight into Donald Trump's mind, but the trade that has paid off for the last 15 years is just put more money into us gross stocks. Everything is cyclical. I think that run is coming to an end. When Apple trades at a PE of 36 and it's not growing, and you can buy good companies for 12, a PE of 12, I'm diversifying into non-US markets.

So that's what I would do as an investor. I would say, okay, if you're in the S&P and you think you're diversified, you're not. You need to diversify geographically. And if you're a company head, what do you do? A US company. Jesus Christ. Well, okay, so this goes to moral. I have been so disappointed that all of these Fortune 500 CEOs

who wake up in the morning and look at themselves in the mirror and say, hello, Mr. President. I bet two to 300 CEOs of Fortune 500 companies think in the back of their mind they could be president. Definitely, Jamie Dimon. Jamie Dimon's so thirsty for presidency. Well, I think most of them think there's an outside shot.

He's particularly thirsty, but go ahead. But you tell a 58-year-old man who is very talented and has been successful his whole life, which you have to be to become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, that you should be president. He's inclined to believe you. Right, I get it. Anyway, so if you want to be to become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, that you should be president, he's inclined to believe you. Right, I get it. Anyway, so if you want to be president,

the key quality is leadership, and that is doing the right thing, even when it hurts. None of them are doing the right thing, which is calling this shit out for fear that it's going to take their stock price down. Because this guy... They're softly calling it out, some of them. This guy, out of the Autocrat Houndbook,

is basically saying, if you go against me, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to target your company specifically, which is straight out of the autocratic handbook. And so what the CEOs who are just focused on short-term share all the value are doing are like saying, oh, you're a great guy. You want to see who's going to get exemptions from the tariffs with companies, just look at his lunch calendar. Yeah, we'll get to that. We're going to get to that in a minute.

Yeah, that's who's going to get it, who kisses up. I think G is going to run right over him. Also, the next thing, I don't think they have gotten the upper hand again. They didn't have it. Now they do. China? China. The definition of stupid is things that hurt other people while hurting yourself.

There aren't a lot of winners here. If there is a medium and a long-term winner, simply put, it's China. By the way, everyone acts, they say we can wreck China's economy. To be fair, China's economy is vulnerable right now, it will definitely hurt them. And by the way, the percentage of trade of exports coming into America as a percentage of their total has gone down seven percentage points since the first Trump administration. And our exports into them have gone down four. So we're both less reliant on each other because we're not getting along. But be clear, they've diversified away from us more.

In addition, there's a couple of things that put them in a power position. And we don't like to admit this. Americans are wimps when it comes to enduring pain. The Chinese, and especially the Russians are a little bit more resilient. They're willing to take pain. If all of a sudden, if 77% of toys under the Christmas tree are from China,

if these tariffs go through, which they won't, he will blink yet again, but if they were to go through, 90% of Americans are on our fixed budget. If the price of toys doubles, that means instead of 10 gifts under the Christmas tree, you're gonna have six. That means your iPhone's gonna go from a thousand bucks.

Well, we're gonna get to that specifically in a second. Okay, I'm sorry, I keep jumping ahead. But the bottom line is Americans, quite frankly, just aren't willing to endure. Women are born with an instinct to endure more pain because they have to go through childbirth. We're the man in this relationship. America, quite frankly, has a lower tolerance for pain than China.

And in addition, they aren't nearly as dependent. I believe we're just more dependent upon them than they are on us. Correct. Especially around the treasuries. They could wreck us. Like, I don't think anyone realizes how China could wreck us if it fell. Also, by the way, it's in our infrastructure from a cyber point of view. I just hit a large, they are everywhere in this country.

And if you think you, and I believe me, I believe them to be an adversary, but the handling them this way is just, he is so stupid. They now know what his pain point is. He blinked on TikTok. He blinked on this. But by the way, these tariffs, these tariffs are not going to go through. There's no fucking way Americans are going to pay $2,300 for their iPhone. And they are indeed our adversary, FYI. So that's why it's so ridiculous.

All right. Let's go on a quick break when we come back, how Trump's latest tariff moves are helping or hurting Apple. Support for PIVOT comes from Vanta. If you could automate 90% of one part of your life, you might choose cleaning your house or writing thank you notes or working out. But if you're a startup founder or a security professional, you'd probably choose compliance. Makes sense. Achieving and maintaining compliance takes a ton of time and money. Vanta is a trust management platform that helps businesses automate up to 90% of the work for in-demand security frameworks,

including Sock2, ISO 27001, and HIPAA. Vanta also saves businesses time by centralizing security processes and helping them complete security questionnaires up to five times faster with AI. And Vanta saves you money. A recent IDC white paper found that Vanta customers achieve $535,000 per year in benefits. Making sure your company is meeting its security compliance standards isn't optional, but with Vanta, the amount of time you need to spend on it is. Go to vanta.com slash pivot to meet with a Vanta expert about your business needs. That's vanta.com slash pivot. needs. That's vanta.com slash pivot. Support for today's show comes from Chevrolet. Whether it's a quick jaunt or a long journey, no matter where you're going, the all electric Equinox EV allows you to travel with

confidence, comfort and connectivity. Equinox EV comes equipped with a standard 17.7 inch diagonal color display touchscreen, making it the largest center screen among EVs in its class. Its sleek lines and a commanding stance define the exterior of Equinox EV, while the no-compromises interior has a cargo room and storage that let you do you at a starting price of around $34,995.

Equinox EV, a vehicle you know, valued, you'd expect, and a dealer right down the street. You can go EV without changing a thing. It's and optional equipment, dealer sets final price. It's been reported that one in four people experience sensory sensitivities, making everyday experiences like a trip to the dentist especially difficult. In fact, 26% of sensory-sensitive individuals avoid dental visits entirely. In Sensory Overload, a new documentary produced as part of Sensodyne's Sensory Inclusion Initiative, we follow individuals navigating a world not built for them, where bright lights, loud sounds, and unexpected touches can turn routine moments into overwhelming challenges.

Burnett-Grant, for example, has spent their life masking discomfort in workplaces that don't accommodate neurodivergence. I've only had two full-time jobs where I felt safe, they share. This is why they're advocating for change. Through deeply personal stories like Burnett's, Sensory Overload highlights the urgent need for spaces, dental offices and beyond that embrace sensory inclusion. Because true inclusion requires action with environments

where everyone feels safe. Watch Sensory Overload now, streaming on Hulu. Scott, we're back. Trump's tariff pause brought some much needed good news for Apple on Wednesday after its worst four-day trading stretch since 2000, if you can believe that. That was like a million years ago. Apple stock soared 15 percent, its best day since January 1998. But the ongoing and increasing China tariffs are still a major problem for the company as Apple makes about 90 percent of its phones there.

Apple's reportedly now planning to source more phones from India to offset some of these costs. A couple things. Apple, if you're Tim Cook, you've got to, you've got to, this is the biggest test of your metal, I think, ever in your, in your tenure. You've done a very good job, but this is really tough. Apple is exempt from broad tariffs in Trump's first term, but that's not happening now despite Tim Cook's $1 million donation to Trump's inauguration.

It also announced a commitment to invest over $500 billion in the US over the next four years back in February. You know what? It had done that in the previous administration, and it was stuff they were going to do anyway, so that was kind of a nothing burger. So one thing Trump could do is throw Apple a lifetime with an exemption, another exemption.

One thing they're saying, which is nonsense, is that the White House says the solution is to move iPhone manufacturing to the United States. Press Secretary Carolyn Levitt, who is 27, everybody, let me be clear. She does not know what she's talking about, said in her briefing this week that Trump believes we have the labor, the workforce, the resources. Carolyn, you're an idiot. Even if that were to happen, it would cost $30 billion in three years for Apple to move just 10% of their supply chain to the US, according to one analyst.

And the price for the iPhone would soar from $1,000 to $3,500, which is a non-starter. So there's no plans to move iPhones to the US at all. The short-term benefit for Apple is that people have been flooding into their stores to buy iPhones. Everyone's like, get one now. There's a tariff panic happening and how much these are going to cost.

They're really squeezed. What's their best thing? An exemption? Which Tim Cook do? Because sucking up didn't work. Which I guess more sucking up might work. I'm fairly confident there will be no tariff on Apple products. One, I think he's going to blink around these tariffs to begin with with China when the market tells him what you've just outlined, that we're not as strong as we think relative

to China too. Tim Cook is the business person that Donald Trump thinks he is. And that is Tim will be smart, he'll go there, he'll kiss his ass. And also, if you want to talk about a cult, the cult of iOS, I mean, first off, the insane notion that we wanna bring these jobs back, Dave Chappelle summarized it perfectly. We wanna wear Nikes, we don't wanna make them. The average assembly wage of an assembly line worker, entry level in China in an Apple factory is $500 a month.

We wanna bring those jobs back to America. You think you wanna enrage a cult, take iPhones to 3,500 bucks. And then you're going to see the largest, the most valuable company in history, an American company, lose the value of the German GDP over the course of a year. You're going to take, push back people's retirements. Apple's going to have to withdraw all sorts of growth plans.

And you want wanna piss off every millennial and Gen X in the world, take their iPhones to 3,500 bucks. Apple is not gonna have any tariffs here. Having said that, what is Apple doing? And they've been doing it for a while. They're trying to diversify their supply chain out of China for a number of reasons.

And by the way, you're talking about analyst Anne Ives, just to get 10% out of China takes three years and costs $40 billion. By that time, Trump will be gone. So this notion that I am fairly confident, folks, you're gonna be able to have your iPhone at the same prices now, because one, I think these China tariffs will not last

because this is what she, this is how she thinks of Trump right now. The same way Logan Roy feels about his children in succession. You are not serious people. She looks at Trump and he's like, you are not serious people. We are not backing down. We didn't back down on TikTok.

All these extensions are serious now. We're going to ban you unless you sell to Larry Ellison and Elon Musk. They're like, okay, hold my fucking beer. That's what they're saying now. OK, you want to tariff us this? We'll respond with the same tariffs. It'll hurt us both. It will. They will back down.

He will blink yet again on China. And even if there are tariffs on China, he will come up with a reason not to inflame a cult that is even stronger than the MAGA cult. And that's the iOS cult. And Tim Cook will go back, go down to Mar-a-Lago, tell him he's a genius, show him a new iPhone with his picture on it, with golden crusted, leafed picture silhouette of Donald Trump,

and he will find an exemption for Apple. I just, the idea that Apple, the iPhones, are gonna go to $2,200, much less $3,500, or that we're gonna bring back those millions of jobs of people screwing in little things. the iPhones are gonna go to $2,200, much less $3,500, or that we're gonna bring back those millions of jobs of people screwing in little things. Every time they open their mouth, I'm like, what are you talking about?

Like, where? Where are you gonna put these factories? And who's gonna, oh, God, we will automate them before. And by the way, there are, then they always drag out advanced, we're gonna do advanced manufacturing. It's already being done here, Carolyn Leavitt, you dumb ass. We have Gorilla Glass.

They're already doing what they, the high level stuff here and creating jobs. And they think you're so stupid. I just, I've got so many calls from tech people, like how stupid are they? And I was like, seems like extremely so, because they don't understand that why would you build a factory here with this lunatic in charge?

You never know what he's going to do if he's going to arrest you. He's going to do, you know, I mean, he or make your life hell. I don't know if any of this stuff is going to last, but it's it's so chaotic. It's it's like a monkey flinging feces at all of us. So we're just going to duck until he goes away. Apple is the most valuable company in the world, or was, briefly went to number two, I think it's back to number one. They have hundreds of thousands of people working in their supply chain and factories in Foxconn and in China. Those people make between $500,

between kind of $20,000 and $40,000 a year. We've outsourced those jobs to China. Probably the most robust supply chain ever on a consumer level in history, maybe the exception of the supply chain of the Manhattan Project that was kind of invented overnight and coordinated to create the bomb and save the world. Anyways, we held on. Apple has hundreds of thousands of employees across the West,

and here's what they're in design, product management, strategy. Exactly, the higher end stuff that would go on. Apple has hundreds of thousands of employees across the West, and here's what they're in design, product management, strategy. Exactly, the higher end stuff that we're glad. Yeah, that average about $210,000 a year. Better jobs, smarter information technology services. So we have outsourced $500 a month, $20,000 a year jobs, such that we would have more money to invest and grow our top line revenues such that we could pay more Americans $200,000 a year. Nike, Nike doesn't want people making two bucks an hour putting together Air Jordans. They want people who understand branding

and sports sponsorships and great retail that again make about I think $150 think 150 to $180,000 a year. And if you want to bring back those jobs and pay people minimum wage at some plant in Lansing, Michigan. They'd rather work at McDonald's. Everyone else. All those other jobs are gonna go down and pay. They would do better at McDonald's.

They would do better at Amazon. It's just, oh God, they're so dumb. Speaking of dumb, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about Elon Musk's escalating feud with Peter Navarro, and in this case, team Elon. Support for the show comes from Mercury. What if banking did more?

Because to you, it's more than an invoice. It's your hard work becoming revenue. It's more than a wire. It's your hard work becoming revenue. It's more than a wire. It's payroll for your team. It's more than a deposit. It's landing your fundraise. The truth is, banking can do more.

Mercury brings all the ways you use money into a single product that feels extraordinary to use. Visit mercury.com to join over 200,000 entrepreneurs who use mercury to do more for their business. Mercury. Banking that does more. Support for this show comes from the 2025 James Beard Awards presented by Capital One. Have you ever had a dining experience where every bite of food was indescribably delicious, the ambiance

was impeccable, and you walked out afterward feeling like your life has maybe changed forever? That's what it's like to experience the culinary prowess of James Beard Award-winning chefs. One of the most coveted award categories is the Regional Best Chef Award presented by Capital One. From modern Vietnamese street food, from Chef Christina Nguyen at Hai Hai in Minneapolis, Minnesota to Chinese Peruvian fine dining from Chef Valerie Chang at Maddie's in Miami, Florida, winners of these awards push culinary boundaries.

Capital One celebrates culinary excellence across the country by presenting each of the 12 Regional Best Chef Award categories. Through its partnership with the James Beard Foundation, Capital One offers its cardholders exclusive access to so many unforgettable dining experiences featuring James Beard Award-winning chefs and restaurants around the country. To learn more, visit the 2025 James Beard Awards Hub at jamesbeard.org slash awards. And be sure to watch the James Beard Awards

from Chicago on June 16th at 5.30 p.m. Eastern, live on Eater. Attention, investors. If you're not sure where to start, check out public.com. That's where you can invest in everything, stocks, options, bonds, and more, and even earn a 6% or higher yield that you can lock in with a bond account. Visit public.com slash podcast and get up to $10,000 when you transfer your old portfolio. That's public.com slash podcast.

Paid for by Public Investing. All investing involves risk of loss, including loss of principle, brokerage services for Scott, we're back with more headlines. The feud between Elon Musk and Trump trade advisor Peter Navarro is heating up and Scott and I are on team Elon this time. Musk called Navarro quote dumber than a sack of bricks. In an X post on Tuesday, that was a response to Navarro saying on CNBC that Elon was a car assembler, not a car manufacturer, because Tesla relies on parts around the world. Again, press secretary Carolyn Levitt, who I like to call Tracy Flick, had this to say about it when asked about the feud. Look, these are obviously two individuals who have very different views on trade and on tariffs.

Boys will be boys, and we will let their public sparring continue. obviously two individuals who have very different views on trade and on tariffs. Boys will be boys and we will let their public sparring continue. And you guys should all be very grateful that we have the most transparent administration in history. Oh my god, boys will be boys. Oh god, give me a break. Boys don't talk like this. Listen, I agree with Elon.

I wouldn't have used some of the words they use. I like dumber than a brick and more on the other ones I'm not so thrilled with. But look, you can hate on Elon Musk as much as you want. He's made an astonishing company here in the United States and really does know about this stuff, right? And have this like faux economist tell him how things work is just an astonishing thing. And in this case, well, of course, it's all in Elon's self-interest to get, because he needs to, you know,

eat at the trough on the other stuff. But this is just, it's just like, I'm so glad Elon called him dumber than a stack of bricks or whatever you call them. I don't know, what are your thoughts? Yeah, it's weird to agree with Elon, but look, I thought, and I still think the fall guy for Signalgate

is gonna be well. So I think the fall guy here, when this just becomes stupider and stupider and stupider as the president continues to wake up next to an adult called the tenure and blinks over and over and over, the fall guy will be Navarro, who by the way, folks, spent four months in prison. And has been quote unquote the architect

or the whisperer here around the tariffs. And I gotta be honest, if it's a war between Navarro and Musk, I'm rooting for the bullets. I'm enjoying this. When you insult people like this in public, you make them look bad and you also look bad. But look, he's right. And by the way, just not again, I hate agreeing with, but when Navarro calls Tesla an assembler,

Tesla is the most American made company in America. The greatest percentage of parts actually manufactured and assembled in the US, the winner of the top four or five- The design, the ideas behind it. Look, it hasn't been keeping up in innovation, but what an accomplishment. But there's a ranking done of who makes the most American car, based on how many parts are actually that go into the car actually are made in America. And the top four or five most American made cars are all Tesla models. So the notion somehow, Tesla is the least assembled car

from foreign products of any automobile manufacturer. The Fords are less American than Tesla. So Peter Navarro, I mean, my God, sit down. This guy, this is the last person you would want advising the president on economic policies. And Trump is going to get angry pretty fast when he has to blink over and over and over. Because of this guy's, I mean, it's interesting that he's in the sway of him. You know, Trump, as you and I know, has been talking about this terrible thing since the 80s.

It's real, as we talked about last week. So this guy was playing into already interest that Trump has, right? But the fact that he's listening to him like this, I don't think he's gonna suffer. I don't think he's gonna get rid of him. I don't think he is. I think he keeps him around. They can fuck up as much as they want,

which to me, this is the guy who has a reputation for firing people, but he actually doesn't, right? He sort of does. It's still pretty early. I mean, we're only 10 weeks in. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I don't know.

Yeah, Navarro has been sidelined and then he was trying very desperately to pretend this was the plan. It might not be a press release or announcement on the West Lawn. It'll be a Vivek. Vivek Ramaswamy was fired. Yeah.

He just did it quietly and pretended that he wanted to go run for governor two years before the actual race. I think he's gonna, it's like, you know, what they, by the way, I think, I think Elon's gonna leave. What do they say about old soldiers? They never die, they just fade away. That's what's gonna happen here. There's gonna be a lot of people that are just fade away. I mean, I feel like probably somewhere in Elon's adult brain is like, what in the actual fuck, right? Like he's not, he's, he may be heinous, but he's not stupid, right? He can't, like, can you imagine sitting there?

And then, oh, God, the, pretending that this is, one particular one was David Sacks was like, pretending this is a victory. Is that a victory? I read that tweet, I couldn't even understand it. He was right about everything again. I'm like, what was he right about? It was planned, it was planned.

I wrecked it, and then I, he fixed it. Isn't he brilliant? Like, what? Like, honestly, like, even, even Elon couldn't, What was he right about? It was planned. I wrecked it and then he fixed it. Isn't he brilliant? Honestly, even Elon couldn't tolerate that. Anyway, Navarro, goodbye. Good night. Go to sleep. You're done.

Go home or go back to prison. Wherever you want to go. Anyway, a couple of quick things. SCOTUS is cutting red tape for President Trump the past week. The court has said the administration does not have to comply with an order directing to rehire thousands of federal employees, lifting an order, stopping the use of alien enemies act for deportations, allowed the plan to freeze funding for teachers, and Chief Justice Roberts allowed the Justice Department more time to litigate whether administration

must return a man who was deported by error. A lot of these rulings are temporary. They haven't made the ruling, but they've left things in place, which is just the same as making the ruling to many people. They're not doing anything. They must be like, they're inundated. The Trump administration, just the way they're inundating law firms or media with all kinds of nonsense, is inundating the Supreme Court with all kinds of requests. And all of which take time. So they're like, they're working, these old people are working over time in this case. Um, you know, I think they will put everything into stasis, which is exactly,

exactly what Trump wants, meaning he can run roughshod. It doesn't stop anything. So thoughts? I think the darkest moments in Western progressive society have been something around camps, obviously Germany and concentration camps, I think one of the darkest moments in American history that we try to airbrush over is the fact that we took law-abiding Japanese families, some of whom had boys serving

the European theater and put them in internment camps. I think that some of the black sides to avoid Geneva Convention laws that we spun up to basically torture combatants during the war on terrorism, I think that over time we will realize just how ugly that was. And I've said for a while that I thought similar to Germany, we were one economic shock away from doing something similar in the US, but it always takes on a different complexion. But when you start rounding people up and many of them don't have a criminal record and some of them just have the wrong tattoo and you essentially send them, I'm not going

to call them concentration camps because I think there are different levels of depravity and that concentration camps took the crown for a level of depravity we haven't seen since then, fortunately. But when you send people to overcrowded prisons with no due process in another country, and then you refuse to acknowledge your mistake and bring them back, which you could do with one call, that is a form, that is gonna be something we're gonna look back on and think,

you know, we really should have spoke up. We really should have spoken up. And also, I just wanna do a shout out, Tim Miller from The Bulwark has been really good on this. He's been highlighting this and he's been a steadfast voice on this. Folks, just be clear, this stuff always takes on a different complexion.

And when you allow this to happen without due process, just be careful when you get that knock on the door. So this is one of the reasons, let me take it to economics because it seems to be the only fucking thing Americans care about is when their 401k goes up or down. One of the reasons our stocks trade at a higher multiple, one of the reasons we attract the most human capital and the most financial capital in the world is due

process and rule of law. And it's tempting to bypass it. If we did away with search and seizure laws, crime would go down. It comes at a cost, right? But it's worth it. And over time, it creates the greatest economy, the greatest society. Think of America as a product. We offer more prosperity and more rights at the lowest cost in terms of taxes in the history. This is the best product ever. And a key component of that value is there is expensive, sometimes awkward, sometimes inefficient due process. So be clear when you turn a blind eye to some gay hairdresser who has done nothing wrong, who ends up in a hellscape prison in El Salvador

and no one is willing to make a call and get him out and acknowledge the mistake, at some point that knock on the door might come for you. Correct. I mean, it's interesting, even in small ways, I have several friends who are on green cards here. that knock on the door might come for you. Correct. I mean, it's interesting, even in small ways, I have several friends who are on green cards here. Every two of them in the last week have had

real problems at coming back into the country. They wanted to look at one of my friend's messages and she refused. She said, no, you can't look at my phone, get a subpoena. They're like, well, it would be easier on you if you let us see it. She's like, do I have to? They said no, and she goes, I shall not then. I mean, and they're a lovely guy. He's from Switzerland, slowed down at the border, hour and a half, two hours,

just like pressuring them to say things. It's just even at the smallest level, it's everywhere. And they will come for you. They're 100% come for you. Let's finish up on one more thing. I want to talk about Chris Krebs, who is head of CISA, who was fired by Trump for saying the election, the 2020 election was legal and Trump fired him or everything was fine. And he is now going after via executive order Chris and removing security clearances from the company

he works for, meaning Chris will probably, he's going to hurt the company itself in order to get rid of Chris. And also Miles Taylor, who was the one who was deep throat essentially, the first administration. And they're going after them personally, trying to ruin and wreck their lives. And I don't know what you think about this. I have great regard for Chris and Miles. And what they're doing here is specifically targeting specific people via executive order

because both of them told the truth. I don't know if you have any thoughts on that, but I will do anything to help Chris, whether it's raising a legal defense fund, anything else. But the fact that he's specifically targeting people now is American citizens who just did their job and told the truth is chilling. As far as I'm, I couldn't be more outraged by this. I'm outraged by all of them,

but this is an astonishing attack on people who just were doing their job. Yeah. Like this is again, along the lines of depravity in an autocrat's handbook, where he's trying to create an incentive program where if you say nice things about me, I might give you a call you and say, oh, by the way, I get the sense of markets

are gonna go up tomorrow and you get rich. Or if you come to have lunch with me in Mar-a-Lago, I'll exempt your company from these tariffs. And if you do your job and say, I see no election interference, I might come after you with a full weight of the Department of Justice. I'd like to think that our justice system will vomit on this.

And the only observation I would have here other than what you said, which is exactly right and I think it's important that we keep raising these issues, is the timing of this was not accidental. He did it yesterday because he wants to misdirect from people to look away from the fact that he blinked and that he is literally fucking with the global economy like a drunk driver right now. So what do you know?

Hey folks, I mean, this is how weird it is. Let's pull this one out of my pocket. I want to outrage the libtards and the media and get them to look over here at what is a blatant violation of the law and the autocrat such that they stop staring at the fact that I am unilaterally taking the global economy down for no fucking good reason.

So I agree with you, I think it's terrible, I appreciate you bringing it up, but quite frankly, I think it is a purposeful misdirect from the fact that he's taking the global economy down. Absolutely frankly, I think it is a purposeful misdirect from the fact that he's taking the global economy down. Absolutely, except I think it's more systematic. This is removing clearances from this company is gonna force them to, he's gonna have to quit

because he's hurting this company, right? The second thing is he's reversing clearances, revoking clearances to law firms that don't cooperate. They can't do business, which is why they're being so acquiescent, is they're losing clients, They're losing everything. If you can't, if you have federal business and you can't do federal business because you don't have security clearances or the government won't work

with you, you're fucked. Like it's, it is part of a bigger picture of fucking with people's economics, right? This is, this is the goal here with Chris and Miles is to fuck with their economics and to fuck with the economics people they work and affiliate with. Finding a lawyer is going to be hard because they fuck with the lawyers. The media is nervous. And then illegally reward your allies. This is part of the same thing.

Even if it's a distraction, it's also trying to kneecap everybody so they can't come after you in some fashion, whether it's the media, the lawyers. Obviously, the Justice Department has lost every bit of ethical boundaries is over because of that another oily factotum, Pam Bondi. You know, it's just I think it is a distraction and yet it's also part of the same plan when he does stupid theft like this with the economy, not just stupid, but dangerous and devastating. He can then threaten people at the same time.

It's a similar thing. Anyway, all right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. Okay, flights on air Canada. How about Prague? Ooh, Paris, those gardens. How about Prague? Ooh, Paris. Those gardens. Gardens. Amsterdam. Tulip Festival. I see your festival and raise you a carnival in Venice.

Or Bermuda has carnaval. Ooh, colorful. You want colorful. Thailand. Lantern Festival. Boom. Book it. How did we get to Thailand from Prague? Oh right, Prague. Oh boy. Thailand from Prague? Oh, right! Prague! Oh, boy.

Choose from a world of destinations, if you can. Air Canada. Nice travels. President Trump on Truth Social has been suggesting that he's open to deals to end the trade war that he started by levying tariffs on U.S. trading partners. The administration says these Liberation Day tariffs will bring manufacturing jobs back to America. Why is that so important?

There are some really dumb ways to answer that question. When you sit behind a screen all day, it makes you a woman. Studies have shown this. Studies have shown this. And some much smarter ones. This is a policy at the end of the day that's oriented toward helping some of the folks who have really been the losers in the economy and have been left behind for a long time. Coming up on Today Explained, the best minds, the White House advisor who's gone ham on

tariffs, defends his position. Weekday Afternoons, Today Explained helps you make sense of the mess. For as long as I can remember, bread has given me hiccups. I always get the hiccups when I eat baby carrots. Sometimes when I am washing my left ear, just my left ear, I hiccup. And my tried and true hiccup cure is... Pour a glass of water, light a match, put the match out in the water, drink the water, throw away the match. Put your elbows out, point two fingers together, and start to stare at the point between the fingers.

It doesn't work if you bring your elbows down, but it works. Just eat a spoonful of peanut butter. Think of a green rabbit. I taught myself to burp on commands like, excuse me. And I discovered that when I make myself burp, it stops my hiccups. Unexplainable is taking on hiccups. What causes them, and is there any kind of scientific cure?

Follow Unexplainable for new episodes every Wednesday. Okay, Scott, let's hear a prediction. What's your prediction? Well, I have three but they're all related. One, blink. This's hear a prediction. What's your prediction? Well, I have three, but they're all related. One, blink. This guy will blink again. The Chinese, the tariffs, you know, okay. 90-day pause, more uncertainty, more reduction in the multiple awarded by global investors

on every company in the US, because we are now, brand America is toxic uncertainty. And so this 90 day pause is ridiculous. He will, and then the hundred and, I think we're at 125% tariff on China. He will blink again. The tariffs will come dramatically down because quite frankly, she looks at Trump

and says, you are not serious people. Folks, this isn't gonna happen. The tariffs are gonna come way down. Trump will blink again. Even more confident, there will be no tariffs, incremental tariffs on Apple products. Tim Cook will play Trump like a fiddle. Trump will be scared to piss off the cult of iOS,

which is huge in the United States. And he will not wanna kneecap our shiniest, brightest, most handsome thoroughbred in that as Apple. That's not gonna happen. In addition, we're gonna find out in somewhere between three years and nine months or sooner that the greatest criminal insider trading took place yesterday.

There's just no way this administration, who is one, telling the DOJ to drop all cases against a mayor accused of conspiring with a foreign agent because he supports the administration. Two, that creates a Swiss banking account that you can put money into with no record. Three, tells all, after getting a quarter of a billion dollars in the crypto community,

tells everyone investigating platforms in the crypto community for good reason to stop all investigations, to believe that this administration did not leak insider information or engage in massive market manipulation yesterday. We're gonna find out that April 9th was literally the biggest grift day in history. But will they do anything about it?

Will the SEC do something? He was pretty silent, this new acting SEC. Nothing will happen until January of 2029 if a Democrat is elected. Only if, only if. But in this economy, in this digital age, there'll be digital records everywhere. They can just go through, they can use AI to go through who was buying and selling all of these options

10 minutes before. There's phone records and digital servers everywhere. And they're just, I think, gonna find dozens, if not hundreds of people who have a connection to the White House, who were given a wink and a nod and made millions of dollars engaging in market manipulation or trading on non-material, non-public material information. This will go down as the biggest grift day in history, Wednesday, April 9th. All right. That's a good one. Those are good ones and they're all related and they're

all really depressing in so many ways. Do you have anything happy? Anything? I'm excited about- The new Mission Impossible is coming. You want to go with me? You keep talking about taking me to a movie. I don't really go to many movies anymore.

You love Mission Impossible. Now that you sent me an intimate picture of us, I think it's time. I did. I'm your private dancer. I love that song. A dancer for money. I'm your private dancer. A dancer for money.

I love that album, that whole album. Let me just say, that is a great album. Go listen to that album. I listened to it when I was in my early 20s. I love that fucking album. Yeah. Did you like it? Yeah. Remember she made her way back?

Yeah, I think whenever I think of that, I think of Marisa Tomei from the movie The Wrestler. I think I could have ended up with Marisa Tomei. She's a beauty. I love her. She's beautiful. I love her. She's so hot. She's so good.

And she's age appropriate for me. She's so, okay. All right, you're married. All right. Oh, her. Anyway. Oh, wait, you want to go back to my college story? Someone asked me to personify Duke. Okay, all right, you're married. All right. Oh, her. Anyway. Oh, wait, you wanna go back to my college tour?

Someone asked me to personify Duke. Okay. By the way, did I tell you in the middle, you're on these tours, and in the middle of the UChicago and Duke tours, I did the same thing with my son, totally inappropriate. Now he mentions the person giving the tour said, we wanna know the real you DMV word. And someone asks, what's the admissions rate?

Okay, 4% at Duke in the University of Chicago. Which means that, so everyone is there with their two overprotective parents. Looking around. So if there's 25 people or 75 people on the tour, which is the average size of the tour, one of those people, one of those kids is getting in. So I said to my son, as soon as they said 4%,

I said, let's leave the tour. And he said, why? And I said, let's break up with this bitch before she breaks up with us. And he looked at me and he knew exactly what I meant and we peaced out and we went and checked out the stadiums and went and got food. But I'm like, it is so insane.

Anyways, back to Duke, They're down to 4%. Duke will produce, Duke is the new Harvard. Duke will produce more presidents in the next 50 years than Harvard because presidents are one of two things. They're either really fucking impressive or ridiculously rich. Obama, Clinton, the former, Trump, W,

although I think W is actually a decent man. They're really rich. And Duke has more really freakishly impressive and really rich people than any university right now. Duke is the new Harvard. Okay, all right, but you're pissed out because you broke up with that bit. 4%, why would you want to do it? That's like me-

It's like the Hunger Games. That's like me at a bar with hot people. It's just not going to happen. It's like the hunger games. That's like me at a bar with hot people. It's just not gonna happen. It's just not gonna happen. I mean, have at it. If there was common app in a bar, I'd be all over it. But, you know, not gonna happen. All right, you know, I'm not gonna go into it

because we've gotta go, but I taught at Duke for a semester. Of course you did. Anyway, it's lovely. It's a lovely- Journalism? Yes. Beautiful campus. Anyway, thank you, Scott. It was very thoughtful. And it gave me a good laugh last night. I Beautiful campus. Anyway, thank you, Scott. It was very thoughtful. It gave me a good laugh last night.

I'm glad. Anyway, it was very touching. Walt never sent me a picture of him nearly naked. If you've got a question of your own that you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com. slash pivots, submit a question for the show, or call 855-51-PIVOT.

Elsewhere in the Karen Scott universe, this week in Prof G Conversations, Scott spoke with Ian Bremmer, president and founder of the Euras Scott universe, this week in Prof. G Conversations, Scott spoke with Ian Bremmer, president and founder of the Eurasia Group, one of our favorites. Let's listen to a clip. Longer term, there are some winners. And China long term will also benefit because the United States will have given up so much reputational capital and China will be able to take advantage of that, particularly in the global south, but also to a degree in Asia, the Japanese, the South Koreans, to a degree in Europe.

But in the near term, China gets hit really badly. In the near term, Mexico and Canada get hit really badly. In the near term, the United States is the comparative winner, and I expect that to be reflected in the markets. So it's a little different from what you were saying but in the long term. Yeah, by the way on anything geopolitics, you know, go with Ian's view. He's very bright. Okay, that's the show. Thanks for listening to Pivot and be sure to like and subscribe to our YouTube channel. We'll be back next week. Scott, read us out.

Today's show was produced by Laren Eamon, Zoe, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie and her Todd engineered this episode. Jim Mackle edited the video. Thanks also to Drew Burrows, Mia Severo, and Dan Chalon. Nishak Kherwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York magazine and Vox Media.

You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business. Kara, the market is down. 1100 points. Toxic uncertainty. Welcome to the Trump administration.