Pivot - Twitter Payments, Financial Illiteracy, and the Out-of-Touch Elite

Episode Date: April 14, 2023

Why does anyone need another form of payment? Who's really behind all that "un-American" content on TikTok? And which Pivot co-host is the most elite? Learn the answers to all that and more as Kara and Scott tackle listener questions. Plus: Poetry. Send us your questions! Call 855-51-PIVOT or go to nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Support for Pivot comes from Virgin Atlantic. Too many of us are so focused on getting to our destination that we forgot to embrace the journey. Well, when you fly Virgin Atlantic, that memorable trip begins right from the moment you check in. On board, you'll find everything you need to relax, recharge, or carry on working. Buy flat, private suites, fast Wi-Fi, hours of entertainment, delicious dining, and warm, welcoming service that's designed around you. delicious dining and warm, welcoming service that's designed around you. Check out virginatlantic.com for your next trip to London data, and a matching engine that helps you find quality candidates fast. Listeners of this show can get a $75 sponsored job credit to get your jobs more visibility at Indeed.com slash podcast.

Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now and say you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Terms and conditions apply. Need to hire? You need Indeed. Hi, everyone. This is Pivot from New York Magazine and the Vox Media Podcast Network. I'm Carol Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. And today we're going to open our listener mailbag.

We get so much mail, most of it about our car's extended warranty, but every now and then there's a question from our listeners in there too, and we love to respond to our listeners because they're my favorite part of this whole equation. What about you, Scott? Mostly the snacks. Okay, all right. We don't have snacks.

I know. I'm just trying to be funny. Oh, I see. Okay. All right. Do you't have snacks. I know. I'm just trying to be funny. Oh, I see. Okay. All right. Do you love our listeners? Say something nice about our listeners. Yeah, yeah.

Love the listeners. It's all about the fans. It's all about the fans. You love them. You love when they say nice things to you. I do. Anyway, let's, you know, actually, let me just say, I'm going to do another fan story. There's a place called Cliff's Hardware, which is one of the best hardware stores in America, in the Castro.

Oh, my God. Don't say anything, Scott. Don't say anything. Anyway, I'm not going to say anything. You're in a hardware store. Okay, okay. I'm in a hardware store in the Castro in San Francisco. I'm going to send you a sticker from there because it's a very beefy man.

You're literally baiting me right now. I know, exactly. You're totally baiting me. I'm in there. Did you go in a Subaru and take in your German Shepherd? I'm sorry, go ahead. No, but I'm buying a screw. So you're literally, this is unfair.

This is unfair. I'm buying a screw, just a single screw. I just wanted a single screw. And the guy said, stop it. Stop. Literally stop. He liked my Sam Altman interview. And he said, God, that's God's a pain in the ass.

And I said, yes, just the guy at the counter. It was fantastic. I like it. The screw was 17 cents. Good to know. Yeah. Good to know. It was a bargain, I thought. Anyway, let's listen to our first question from listeners. You've got, you've got, I can't believe I'm going to be a mailman. You've got mail. Hi, my name's Josh and I'm currently in the process of looking for a new job, and I had two questions for Scott and Cara. The first question was, how do you guys find time to read? What's your busy schedule? Do you often read from front to back?

Do you skim? What's your strategy? And then my other question would be, would you recommend that someone gets into tech now? I've been working in tech for three years. I'm currently being laid off, and a lot of my friends are getting laid off. And the layoffs are seemingly targeting women and minorities, I guess, because they're disproportionately in support roles that are deemed redundant. So why would a young person want to work for a tech company over a hospital or a financial industry that is more stable and not as impacted by layoffs or erratic CEOs. Thank you.

Oh, wow. I skim books. I do. I don't read. I just bought a great book about San Francisco, but I bet I'll just skim it. I don't read enough. I read a lot of news stories and I read a lot of stuff online and on my phone. Either I get it from Twitter or other places and I read the newspaper. Either I get it from Twitter or other places, and I read the newspaper. I read a lot of current stuff and not enough poetry, I would say. Answer that one, Scott, first. Poetry. People are generally disappointed.

I am not a well-read person. I read a lot throughout the day. One of the wonderful things about these social platforms is it will bubble up very interesting articles from a variety of sources, but I would bet in the last four years, I've written more books than I've read. Oh, wow. And what I do though, is when I read a book like Sapiens, or I read a book like in Richard Reeves' book of Boys and Men, I'll read it two or three times

because I wanna extract, I wanna cement as many of the learnings into my brain as possible. So I'll go back and reread chapters and try and commit them. You know, it's almost like being inspired by an artist. You want to incorporate into your own rap. But I very rarely. So those are both nonfiction. You don't read fiction at all. I don't read fiction.

I read World War II history and I read interesting books on economics. I read a lot of poetry. Do you really read poetry? I do. And what is it? Does it give you pause? Does it move you emotionally? It's usually so beautifully written

in an economy of words, typically, and imagery I really love. I'm reading Maggie Smith right now, who I love. I read Louise Gluck over and over again, Carolyn Forche, all kinds of people, Tony Hoagland. I just read, you know, I read a lot of poetry. I read a lot of poetry. That's really wonderful.

When things get recommended, I read it. There's such beautiful imagery that it, I just, I quoted one of Maggie Smith's poems in a show I did on ON. I just think the way poets have economy of speech, I don't know how else to put it, but that's how I think about it. I just like it. It's easy. It's fast. And I feel it makes me more creative. I was just thinking, I do read one fiction author. Who?

Almost everything he's ever written is Stephen King. Oh, yeah. And the thing that people don't realize about Stephen King is they think he writes horror. He doesn't. He writes about relationships. Yep, he does. I think he is. I think he's one of the, he's literally, it sounds weird.

He wrote a book called, I think it was called On Writing. I wanted to write and I was too intimidated. I read his book. He wrote a book on how to write. And it just sort of like gave me the confidence to start writing. Yeah. He's a great on the Twitter too. He it just sort of like gave me the confidence to start writing. Yeah. He's a great on Twitter, too. He's just really a wonderful character in our world.

He's a gift. He's a gift. That guy is a genius. He literally is a genius. Him and Mark Hamill have turned out to be the biggest surprises to me in terms of how witty and funny they are. Obviously, Luke Skywalker. Both of them, that's where I learned on Twitter, when Twitter is good, that's the good part of it. What about getting into tech right now?

Look, there's some myths about tech, and that is 80 or 85 percent of the jobs at tech companies are not tech jobs. So it's really a function of, I mean, it's a couple of things. What are your opportunities? So I would just say before you start wringing your hands over where you should work, interview everywhere and see where you get the opportunities to work. And what I would say about technology in general is it'll go through cycles and in-outs, but for the most part, it's just going to be a growth business over the next couple of decades. You want to be in your career for the long game. If you have an aptitude or an interest in consumer tech or B2B tech, by all means,

go at it. And also, distinct of the externalities to a lot of these companies and the emissions they produce, which we talk about ad nauseum here, they generally speaking are progressive, good companies to work for. They tend to be. Although there's more erratic CEOs, that's no question, because they're founders. That's why. I think they're in the news more. I don't know. Some of these old-time CEOs, anyways, it's opportunistic. It's individual. You got to look at the company. But there's two things. Do you want to be in tech? And by the way, you can play a tech role at Procter & Gamble, at a non-tech company. Yeah. It's just a question of where you get opportunity

and what you're interested in. But generally speaking, like to go long a career in tech. Yeah, would be a good one. It's a good sector. It's going to be a bigger part of the economy in 20 years. You just know that. Yeah, but support roles are always vulnerable.

And every company is a tech company in a weird way. But support roles are always vulnerable. Every time when there's a layoff, it's always that. And it usually is women and minorities in those roles. But learn tech and get into the real be a techie, I think, is probably more powerful still. Someone's just asked me,

they're like, oh, now it's over. I'm like, are you kidding? You should see all the AI companies getting started here in San Francisco. San Francisco's back on that issue, I'll tell you that. They're all locating here. Anyway, here's another one. It comes via email. I'll read it.

Hi, Scott and Kara. Again, see? Something's turned. It's not Kara and Scott. With regards to Twitter, I often hear payments mentioned as a critical and game-changing component, whether it's a turnaround their product or create a super app, et cetera. My question is, who needs another form of payment? What new utility would Twitter payments create

for consumer businesses and retail consumers? A moderately tech-savvy consumer already has a credit card, a debit card, a Venmo or Zelle account, Apple Pay or Google Wallet, and stores their payment methods with Amazon and other frequently shopped merchants. So why would a payment product all of a sudden change things for Twitter?

Thanks, Andy on Oahu. Oh, I love Oahu. I love Hawaii. Let me just say I agree with you. There's no way I'm giving that person my credit card. No way in hell. And I don't think it would be particularly convenient where it's not convenient now. I'm with you, Andy. Scott? I would take the other side of that. I think, and probably I'm not as concerned about security, but in the last nine days I've gone London, Riyadh, Riyadh, London, London, Miami, Miami, Vegas, Vegas, LA, LA, London. What a flex. And one of the most frustrating parts of the trip was being on a plane and trying to sign up for wireless and figuring out the three or five or 10 minutes it took to pay. So, but what was really easy,

what pulled up really easily once I had wireless was Twitter. So if Twitter based on, and I don't like to give Elon Musk any credit, but he was one of the seminal figures at PayPal. Was it PayPal? No, his was x.com, but go ahead. If you're on Twitter and you have an efficient way, especially of cross-border payments,

that to me seems like a really interesting opportunity for Twitter because they already have your information. I don't know if they already have your credit card, probably not. But it strikes me that that platform and his skills are sort of ready-made for some sort of payments platform. Having said that, they've made absolutely no progress against that. Yeah, it's his area of expertise. It is kind of startling. I just think I wouldn't – I have to say I use Amazon all over the web, and it's very easy to pull up Amazon. And it's often like, would you like to pay with Amazon?

I do it every time. Apple Pay, I'm using almost every site I go to or anywhere on my phone. Apple Pay is now present for every one of my bills, every single one. Oh, that's interesting. And it's not Venmo. I pay so many people through Venmo. It's just there's so many solutions. I don't want to even add another one to it.

And when it's a place I feel insecure, definitely not. If it was secure, I certainly would use it. I think Scott is right on the whole. But I don't trust this company with my credit card. I do trust Apple. I do trust Apple. I do trust Amazon. I know there's problems at any of these places and data leaks, but I trust Venmo. And I do trust the credit card companies in terms of, you know, there's, I feel like there's

a long record of them warning you. It has, I mean, I've had people use my credit card incorrectly, you know, fraudulently. But I feel like there's systems in place and that he can't build a system that's safe. Like the idea of a safety group at Twitter right now is just, it should work. Listen, it should work and it's in his area of expertise. So we'll see. Well, where I think it could head, and this is the gap or the opportunity, is that it is easier to go through British customs now using biometrics.

You don't, you just, you put in your passport, it scans your eyes, lets you into the country. It is easier to get in to cross the UK border right now than it is to pay for wireless on the plane. So I still think, I think payments and biometrics are still an enormous opportunity. I would like voice-based payments. I'm at dinner.

We're done. They come over. They hold something up. And using my unique voice and eyes, I say, pay bill. And it's done. There is so many receipts, bullshit, machinery attached in payments still. It still has a ton of room to take friction out. Yes, it does.

But I think it's getting better, better and better and better. Well, Apple Pay is a marvel. Apple Pay, I have to say, is very slow initially, but I use it. It's really powerful. Eight or nine times a day, everywhere. I don't carry my wallet anymore. It's really interesting. I assume there's an Apple Pay. And when there's not, I'm like, why don't you have Apple Pay? So we'll see. It's an opportunity. It sure is. But boy, am I not going to use it. Anyway, here's another one. We actually had a few on this topic. I'll read. Hi there. I know Scott is pro-banning TikTok in part because he thinks the content

makes people feel worse about the U.S., but I think it's really critical to point out that the content is being made by U.S. citizens, not the CCP. Americans are voicing their anxiety, struggles, calling out unfair situations across the spectrum of work and politics, and TikTok helps them laugh about it together. And I'll also say TikTok has a good moderation tools compared to Facebook and Twitter. I'll never encounter cringy racist memes on TikTok. If you're after propaganda and those making us feel worse about our society, let's ban Fox News too. Best, Ilana. Oh, Ilana has some good points. Scott, why don't you redress this? I think you're absolutely right, Ilana. Oh, Ilana has some good points. Scott, why don't you redress this? I think you're absolutely right, Ilana.

And there's no reason why we can't have two thoughts in our head at the same time. If News Corp cynically spreads misinformation, knowing that it's misinformation and it damages or perverts our view of a fair election, they should be held liable. a fair election, they should be held liable. If Facebook continues to show an amoral disregard or indifference towards content that depresses our teen girls, they should be held responsible. This is a different issue. It's a defense issue. And that is, I believe we're going to find out that the CCP was putting their thumb on the scale of anti-American content, which you have correctly pointed out, there is an enormous amount of produced by American creators. But that doesn't make it any less insidious or dangerous. If we had this tool over there, we would start dialing up content about the Uyghurs and about

how she has risen to power in a murderous way. We would start putting our thumb on that content. I believe that's what they are doing here. I believe that in the murderous way, we would start putting our thumb on that content. I believe that's what they are doing here. I believe that in the fullness of hindsight, we will find out that their algorithms were, per the CCP, dialing up ever so slightly content that made a future generation of civic, military, and business leaders feel worse about America. And even if they're not, I just don't think it's a risk we can take. Yeah, I think he's right. I think he's right. I think there needs to be, in order to ban it, there needs to be evidence or it's not going to work. It's not going to,

if they don't have that proof, they're not going to be able to ban it. And I don't know if banning is the right idea. And by the way, Fox News is never getting banned. They might not even lose this case, even though they're egregiously awful. On the same topic, Thomas writes, Scott says he thinks Facebook is guilty of the same behaviors as TikTok, but because they do it for money and not geopolitical purposes, quote, I see some benefit there.

I'm not trying to take his words out of context, but to me, it sounds like he's arguing it's not as bad as long as our youth is manipulated for shareholder value. I don't think that's the case. I think you think there's levels of shittiness. I think that's right. Well, let me be clear. This in no way should let Meta off the hook.

I'm hoping this isn't a heat shield or a distraction from Meta, but momentum going into carving out components of Section 230. Components of now saying it's time for a privacy legislation, which CARA has been advocating for. This by no means lets American social platforms off the hook. There's a difference, though. The problem with American social platforms is they're amoral. They don't care. When they see evidence everywhere that one in 17 girls who have contemplated suicide cite Instagram as a cause or a catalyst for that suicidal ideation. They put their hands over their eyes and they have Sheryl Sandberg go to a book signing and say, hey, look over here. That is amoral. You could argue it's so amoral that at some point it becomes immoral.

I personally believe that the CCP, that their attempts to diminish our standing globally, I think America gets it wrong a lot, but the arc of America, it bends towards justice. And I think an enemy that is trying to undermine our position globally is amoral. So I think when you have incentive to diminish America, you're actively trying. Yeah, why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you? Whereas the US platforms, and they should be addressed, they You're actively trying. Yeah, why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't you? Whereas the U.S. platforms, and they should be addressed, they're not actively trying to fuck up America. They just ignore it.

There's a difference. Do it because they're making money. Yeah, yeah, I agree. They're not murderous. They're not murderous. Mark Zuckerberg is not murderous. So, yay, compared to Xi. I would agree on that one.

All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. And when we come back, a listener wants to know if health care should be a subscription product. And we settle an argument once and for all. Fox Creative. This is advertiser content from Zelle. When you picture an online scammer, what do you see? For the longest time, we have these images of somebody sitting crouched over their computer with a hoodie on, just kind of typing away in the middle of the night.

And honestly, that's not what it is anymore. That's Ian Mitchell, a banker turned fraud fighter. These days, online scams look more like crime syndicates than individual con artists. And they're making bank. Last year, scammers made off with more than $10 billion. It's mind-blowing to see the kind of infrastructure that's been built to facilitate scamming at scale. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of scam centers all around the world. These are very savvy business people.

These are organized criminal rings. And so once we understand the magnitude of this problem, we can protect people better. One challenge that fraud fighters like Ian face is that scam victims sometimes feel too ashamed to discuss what happened to them. But Ian says one of our best defenses is simple. We need to talk to each other.

We need to have those awkward conversations around what do you do if you have text messages you don't recognize? What do you do if you start getting asked to send information that's more sensitive? Even my own father fell victim to a, thank goodness, a smaller dollar scam, but he fell victim and we have these conversations all the time. So we are all at risk and we all need to work together to protect each other. Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash zelle. And when using digital payment platforms,

remember to only send money to people you know and trust. Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Out. Procrastination, putting it off, kicking the can down the road. In. Plans and guides that make it easy to get home projects done. Out. Carpet in the bathroom. Like, why? In. Knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today. Scott, we're back with more listener mail. This one came in via email. Let's read. Hey, Kara and Scott. Thank God the balance is restored in the universe. I was raised in a largely financially illiterate family, and I still have very poor understanding

of most things financial, especially when it comes to the market. I've learned a little bit on my own about the basics, but I still have so many questions. What is a market cap and why does it matter? What does it mean to sell short? What is even a mutual fund or an option? What's a good way for a 40-something guy to get a basic understanding of market concepts so I can have a good baseline from which to grow and to understand your content even better. Any advice? Thanks from a huge fan, Will. I'm going to take this just for a second because I was having lunch yesterday with a very

old friend of mine here in San Francisco. And one of the things she's working on is financial literacy products for people of your age. And that one of her arguments is that there's going to be a huge transfer of wealth around 2040 between the boomers and their children, and that the boomers keep financial information away from their kids about, like she interviewed all these 75-year-olds, which is the top of the boomers, about how they don't want to tell their kids about their money or make you understand it, and this and that, and that there's all these people who do not have an understanding of finances and she's making products this is the area she's worked in number of financial services online financial services companies and i think it's a great i was like

this sounds important to really be doing this and there isn't a lot out there there really isn't and and that that it isn't just there's a whole bunch of people on TikTok. There's a thing called, I think it's Ms. Dow Jones. There's all kinds of stuff on TikTok, but it's very short. Financial literacy is a huge opportunity. And I can't think of anything that's really good out there. We have the Susie Ormans, the Jim Cramers, but for this new group of people, it's harder. There's a few people, but there's not anyone that's really risen. Scott, we should do this. Anyway, Scott. You know, it just amazes me how little you actually know about me. You know,

you're writing a book, and I don't know if you've heard, but I'm writing a book. Do you know the title of the book I'm writing? I know what it is. Go ahead. I was giving you the opportunity. Go ahead. What is it? I don't believe you. You're like my wife, pretending that you know what's going on in my life. What's the algorithm of something? Money? Jesus. Literally? Literally? That's it. It's money. I'm taking the, I'll be at my mother's house. I know. It's another one of your algorithm of things.

The title of my book is The Algebra of Wealth. Algebra. Strategies for Financial Security. Right. Now, having said that, what's out there now? The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel is a fantastic book. Oh, nice. You'll know all of them. Aswath Damodaran's blog, once you get a little bit more of an understanding about trying

to understand stocks. A Random Walk on Wall Street is pretty interesting. There's a ton of good stuff on YouTube. But you absolutely, there's a myth, and that is wealth is a function of how much money you make. No, it's not. It's a function of how much you spend such that you can save and you can invest. And there's just some basics around how to build economic security. And also you need to be good at money. This question is an important one because everybody in a capitalist society, you have an obligation to be economically viable.

It'll eliminate a lot of stress from you and your loved one's lives. And the only way you can be economically viable is to have a baseline understanding of the markets and finance. People think that, oh, if you're really talented and make a lot of money, you'll be fine. Do you know two-thirds of NBA stars who are playing right now will be bankrupt within five years? It's because they don't understand money. And if you don't understand money, you're probably never going to have a lot of it or hold on to it. Unless you're left it. This transfer of wealth is going to be enormous over the next 20 years.

Oh, you can spend it. Anyone can lose money. It's not easy to make money, but most people can make money. What's hard is holding on to it and building it. Because you fall under the delusion that it's always going to grow and you don't need to think about it and you don't diversify. There are so many stories of people who came into money because of talent or luck and then lose it all. As a matter of fact, the reason the Gettys and the Carnegies don't rule the world is that rich kids have a tendency to lose it. Yeah.

And because they don't understand money, they don't understand how hard it is to make, they don't diversify. So it's like saying when people say, oh, I hate the humble brag. I hate the humble brag of really wealthy people who say, oh, I don't think about money, which is a total lie. What they're saying is I'm so fucking talented it just happened. That's like saying Roger Federer doesn't think about tennis when he's not on the court. You're absolutely right to have a basic three to six books so you have a baseline understanding of the markets. But there's a basic algorithm for wealth creation. The first is focus.

Find something you're good at. Invest a ton of time. Become great at it so people will pay you for it. Have empathy for yourself. Not only do what you want to do, but have empathy for the market. Why should the market care and why will it pay you? Two, stoicism, live below your means. It's really hard, but that's the key to building wealth. Live below your means such you can save and invest. Two, time. Time is your ally. You don't realize that when you're younger, people have only lived to the age of 35, so they can't imagine that 20 or 30 years is going to go really fast, and it does. And if you just save $250 a month in your 20s and then 30% if it's your own business, of your assets because no one knows what's going to happen.

It is focus times stoicism times time times diversification. But also, can I just say, there's other books you should also read that are old books like Adam Smith, Wealth of Nations. It's worth trying to read it or just understanding it. Another one is Jared Diamond's Guns, Germs, and Steel, I'm thinking. It's a great book. Your brother recommended that book to me. Yeah. A lot of biographies like Ron Chernow's Titan about Rockefeller was interesting.

There's all kinds of stuff that you should read widely, widely, widely, widely. And I think even Charlie Munger, who's a billionaire who works with Warren Buffett, he always recommends Ben Franklin books. Understand the history of this stuff. I think that's really important. But you're right. There's a real opportunity. Scott, there's a real opportunity. That's what my publisher thinks.

But there is. Because this is my friend is moving right into, because I think she's 100% right. There's a lot of opportunity beyond quick, snackable TikToks. People are desperate for it, and there's a real space for personal finance information, especially among this generation who really doesn't know

much compared to their parents. You know, it's like my 15-year-old can do derivatives, but he doesn't know how to handle a credit card. I mean, he just, these kids, we're raising a generation of kids who get calculus, but don't understand the interest rate on a mortgage. I talk about this with my kids a lot. I just did a lot of estate planning, and I sat down and said, this, this, this, let me explain this to you. They're a little bit resistant initially, but ultimately they have to understand it, I think.

I spent a lot of time thinking about finance when I was younger. We were left some money when my dad died through an insurance thing. And so I learned real quick. I started buying houses. And so it was just intuitive that I would own real estate and then diversify. And I spent a lot of time because I was very interested in not being stupid. I still think I'm stupid, but in any case, really great question. Here's another one that came in via voicemail. Let's listen. Hi there.

My name is Peggy, and I live in the exurbs of Seattle. I have a question about a trend I'm seeing here in health care. I just found out a fourth highly regarded doctor in our town of about 12,000 has left one of the large practices run by the only health regarded doctor in our town of about 12,000 has left one of the large practices run by the only healthcare corporation in our area to start a subscription-based private practice. You have to pay a monthly subscription of $150 or more, pay for services up front often, and in many cases, file your own insurance forms, but you get to see a doctor right away instead of waiting for weeks, which is happening

with the large corporate practices. They all have waiting lists, and I'm on one of them. Are you seeing this in other parts of the country, and what are the implications for U.S. healthcare writ large? If I thank you both, I'd love to podcast. This is a great question. In cities, it's been better, these subscription services like One Medical that Amazon has, speaking of experts of Seattle. Very easy to use subscription service, not very expensive comparatively. It's $144 a year, so I guess that's about $10, $12 a month. So people in cities are seeing this more and more, and it's very easy. If Amazon continues to do this in more rural areas,

it's a real problem. It's always been a problem with doctors not being trying to attract doctors to these smaller towns. And then to get on wait lists, one of the reasons I went to one medical is I couldn't get an appointment with a regular doctor and I was sick a lot. There was just no choices. And so I was willing to pay that. That $150 a month is a lot and paying for services up front is a lot and filling out your own insurance forms. It's really an indictment of our healthcare industry. But I don't know the solution. I suppose subscription services are going to get wider and wider, especially if companies like Amazon move into all kinds of areas of healthcare.

So, Scott, I don't know. What do you think? Well, subscription is a business model and it favors the provider because more reliable revenue streams get valued at a higher multiple. So it's good for the practice that can move to subscription. It also, unfortunately, it kind of lends towards, it serves people who need it the least.

And that is it serves people who not only have insurance, but also can afford to pay that additional amount. The issue, I mean, there's so much around how broken our healthcare system is, but a subscription doesn't address the fundamental underlying reason. And as I get older, I'm becoming more of a conspiracy theorist around the US healthcare. And that is essentially, I think the algorithm that's probably one of the most damaging algorithms in the world is the U.S. healthcare algorithm. And that is the industrial food complex. If you look at the biggest food companies in America, it's generally really shitty food. It's addictive food that taps into a flaw in the species around our need.

99% of the time, we weren't able to find enough trans fats, sugar, fatty foods, whatever it might be. And once we got to institutional production, we can give you a lot of calories for cheap with food that's really shitty for you. And then we hand over these unhealthy fat people to the industrial pharmaceutical complex who makes $10,000 or $12,000 a year feeding them drugs for their diabetes. So there's no real incentive by corporations who've weaponized Washington to address an unhealthy nation. Subscription doesn't address that. Subscription provides an additional layer of revenue stream that's more predictable for the provider and then separates, helps people who can pay the money for subscription, elevates them into a different category where they can see a doctor more easily.

And that's part of capitalism. Rich people get better health care, better education, better everything. That's part of capitalism. But it doesn't address the fundamental problem, and that is America spends more money on health care for worse outcomes. And subscription or not subscription isn't going to solve it. Yeah, it's true. This is not a new problem of these smaller towns, by the way. But I do think these subscription services that are less expensive, like Amazon, there'll be more of those. A lot of people I know use the ones in supermarkets. I don't know if they have one in

your town. You probably don't. Or Walmart. Yeah. Walmart has a- The Minute Clinics. Yeah. Because that's, you know, interesting. Jeff was, I was having dinner with my brother last night, and much of the problems are usually things like flu or a rash or something.

You know, it's not like life-threatening. It's usually, but this preventative stuff is critically important to see a doctor regularly for a number of things that then later, including obesity, including smoking, et cetera, alcohol abuse, you need to be seen on a regular basis. And that's the great waste of our system is that we wait till people get super... We treat sickness, we don't treat health. And I know it sounds... Well, it's defensive. Defensive, yeah.

It's not a healthcare system, it's a sick care system. Yeah. And so, and then here's a pill, good luck kind of thing. And you just see it. And I know it's defensive. It's not a healthcare system. It's a sick care system. Yeah. And so, you know, and then here's a pill, good luck kind of thing. And you just see it. I think that is, at some point, people realize it just can't continue like this. You're going to be, this is, in my view, this is the most exciting thing about AI and the biggest unlock. What if you turned on your phone for your teen kid and you said, look, I'm worried about you. And I'm going to put on this app on your phone and people freak out about surveillance, but it records everything you said. Do you realize that they're finding that in kids who are having suicidal ideation and when they interview them after

they've attempted self-harm, they find a preponderance, and it makes a lot of sense, of the two words, I feel useless and I feel hopeless. But can you imagine an AI and a large language model that if you fed in two days of your kids' text messages, whatever it might be, might be able to identify kids who are, the difference between abnormal or normal teen weirdness and actual suicidal ideation you should be worried about. I think there's just so much opportunity. There is. Sam Altman talked about this. He said two things.

Education, that these are tutors that you could create, and health care. If people get more on that phone, more information that's actionable in their hands, even that is a huge, to make them good information, that's sort of the big issue. Or an ability to get to some good information, it can go a long way. And that's where people are. They're operating in pools of ignorance or lack of knowledge, really, not ignorance. And that's important. I think you're right, Scott. I think you're right.

But there are implications, privacy. But you're right. I would agree. I think that's worth it in many ways, I think you're right, Scott. I think you're right. But there are implications, privacy. But you're right. I would agree. I think that's probably worth it in many ways, I think. I would like to give a, I'm using this health app. I listened to this guy who I'm obsessed with named Dr. Peter Attia, who talks about health and longevity. I'm trying to gain weight, which I realize no one feels sorry for. But so I downloaded this health app or this nutrition app called Carbon at his recommendation.

And there's a great Hawthorne effect. And that is, I feel as if the app is watching me. So I'm trying to be more healthy. And I'm inputting all the food. And it's constantly sending me notifications. I would absolutely go to the next level and let this tool track everything. If it could, in a thoughtful way, say, okay, you're working out too hard or not hard enough. Or you need to work out at these hours. Or you need to have this level of sugar in your, or carbs in your system before

you work. I would love a ton of advice real time from some sort of AI model that is just saying, what are your goals? I want to be healthy. I want to be vigorous. I want to be mentally fit. And there's so much opportunity around this stuff because the majority of us, even those of us who are blessed with resources and time, still don't know what the fuck we're doing. I mean- Yeah, yeah. Peter Attia looks like you, Scott. I'm just looking him up. He physically looks like you. That guy's a great guy. He also is the first person to make a round trip swim from Maui and Lanai. That guy's a gangster. He's a doctor. Oh, dear. He is really good.

By the way, I had never listened to a full Tim Ferriss podcast until Dr. Atia was on it. And I really have a lot of respect for Tim. He does a good job. Yeah, he does. I like Tim. Tim's a very soulful person. I really like Tim. And they're both in amazing shape. Yeah, they are.

Nonetheless, it doesn't matter. Someday you'll be dead, as I like to say. Yeah, but along the way, why not look better naked and feel better about yourself and the world? I know. You look good, Scott. You look so good. It's so crazy.

You're so fit. You're so fit, it's ridiculous. Go on. Whatever. I don't worry about your health, except for excessive drinking and taking edibles. And mental illness and ED. Mental illness and ED.

Other than that, I'm doing just fine. I'm doing just fine. I'm doing just fine. You look good. Yeah, that's the key. All right, Scott, one more quick break. And when we come back, we'll talk about elitism. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month. Every month.

At Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at Fizz.ca. Scott, we're back. This last one is very important. It came in via email. For Karen, Scott, let's settle this issue of which of you is more elite and out of touch. You both are sometimes.

But mom and dad, don't fight. The kids love you and you balance each other out. And that's what's keeping our family together. Thanks for the show. I really like the show. And both of you equally based on your unique selves with love. Matt in Des Moines. Thank you, Iowa.

Thank you, Matt. Wow. What do we say? I have a serious question, though. You're more elite, but go ahead. What does it mean? How do you define what it is to be elite or non-elite? I don't know why you brought it up and accused me of it.

I'm asking you. What was your definition? Because you're the one that started the fight. I started it? I didn't start the fight. You did, Blanche. You did. You did.

Oh, my God. Are you kidding? You called me elite when I was making another point. But nonetheless, what is your definition of elite? Let me just ask you that. I'm not sure I have one. That's my point. I'm not sure I understand.

You just threw it as an insult. I don't understand. It's just such a good insult. They usually say it's academics, journalists. Is it by profession? Is it by your upbringing, the privilege you were brought up with? Wealth. What is it?

I think, let's break this down. I think I was brought up with more privilege. I went to private schools. I had wealth, not huge, but good, strong wealth. Upper middle class, I would say. I grew up in Princeton, New Jersey. Again, private schools, big education. Some negatives, my dad died.

But that's that, the upbringing. And you grew up with a single mom who did a great job raising you, but very much more difficult early circumstances. Went to a public high school, I assume, and went to a public university. I went to Georgetown. So in that way, I am more elite. I'm a Pell Grant kid. I like to throw that out. You are.

Nonetheless, you've more than made up for it because you live better than I do. You jet all around. You have beautiful homes, much more beautiful homes. Does that make me elite? Does wealth make you elite? Yeah, it around. You have beautiful homes, much more beautiful homes. Does that make me elite? Does wealth make you elite? Yeah, it does. You've moved into a much more comfortable. You're kind of living this, not the succession world, but you live in that higher level.

You're always at somewhere. You're always like, oh, I'm in Montana, wherever the fuck. And I don't live like that. I work really hard. I live pretty simply compared to people in my economic. I don't spend a lot of money on clothes. We know that. I can verify that. I have a Kia. I have a Chevy Bolt. I'm not a spender, and I don't like going to fancy restaurants. You love a club and a fancy restaurant. So in that way, you're more elite, right? Sure. So, but you're saying you're equating

elite with consumption. Yeah, that's another way. There's another way. It's background. I think both of us are in some ways elite. We've been able to, we have good healthcare. We are very educated. We operate in the top echelon. So in that way, we're both very elite. I think of it, I'm working through this, but I'm wondering if it's a function of a bunch of things. Your upbringing, your education, your privilege makes you believe that you can be a more thoughtful or a more correct arbiter of what's right and wrong out there. You take on an elite viewpoint that because of your wealth, because of your education, you somehow think that

you have greater insight into right and wrong. Yes, that's true. That's true. Although I do think sometimes when you say, oh, you're elite, I think you can recognize problems without living them. I think if you don't see, you know, issues that other people have to deal with, like not being able to pay for health care or gas prices, I understand that. It doesn't mean I experience it, but you can certainly empathize and understand people who think about it and think about their point of view. And I think that's just empathy. And I don't think it makes you elite to have empathy for other people who you don't have the experience they

have. That's what I would say. But in general, you are, let's not use elite, let's use fancy. You're fancier than I am. You think I'm fancy? You're fancy now. You're now fancy. I like to go out and get fucked up. You're fancier than I am. On a consumptive basis, you're fancier. You are.

I enjoy going out with you because it's always like, ooh, this is nice. The only exclusive place I go is I go to an exclusive sex club called the Illuminati. Illuminati. That's good. I think what I... Anyway, Matt and Des Moines, we really do get along. It's really funny. One of the great things is to disagree with people you like, and it's okay. It's okay not to get... Well, you know what we have in common as Hollywood elite with the Catholic Church? Mm-hmm.

We both have a sense of moral superiority while our elites are sex offenders. I don't think I'm morally superior. I don't think I am. Oh, a little bit. No, I don't. No, I think there's certain... You just don't like it when I say I'm good at something. I think I'm a good parent. I think I'm a good parent. I'm perfect, but I think I'm good. And I think saying it bothers people like you. You're like, oh, don't say you're good at that. I like you. I'm good at

reporting. I really am. I'm very pleased with my career in reporting, etc. What are you pleased about? You know how I have changed around privilege is that my rap up until the age I was 40 was

raised by a single mother, blah, blah, blah, overcome all these obstacles, check out my shit. And then when you realize, I realized about the age of 40 that wait, a white heterosexual male born in the 60s meant free education at the world's elite universities that was not only inexpensive, but it was accessible.

Come into my working life, professional years, with the winds of processing power on the web at my back. I mean, I hit the fucking lottery. You did? And what you realize as you get older and you take the lens back, whether it's being born in America or being born as I was. I mean, I was used to the case of my roommate who was born a white male homosexual,

and our lives ended up much different, specifically he passed away from HIV. But as you get older, what you realize is you don't realize how privileged you are. I mean, you do, or hopefully, hopefully, because I used to generally think, and I'm embarrassed by this, that I had overcome hardship.

And what you realize is, Jesus Christ, how could I, I literally was born on third base. Yep. I would agree. I think that about myself a lot of time. I do. Despite some setbacks, I feel that all the time. But let me just say, I think finally, Matt, elite is based on quality of clothing and having stolen several items of Scott's clothing over the years. He is much more elite. They're so soft and lovely. I usually wear T-shirts from Target that my kids had. That's what I do. And I'm wearing one right now, an Angry Birds one. If you show up with my clothes, that means we're going steady.

That's like me borrowing your car. I know, that's true. There's one thing I'm not giving back. You don't know I stole it. I just love it. It's so soft and elite. I feel elite. I feel rich when I'm wearing it. I could, of course, buy it myself, but nonetheless, stealing it is much more pleasurable. In any case, you had 10 of them, so I didn't think you'd miss it. Anyway, those were great questions. Send us more. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVOT. Scott, that's the show.

Thank you for all these excellent answers. I like these shows. Thank you, Tara. I like the show. I like the listener shows. We'll be back on Friday for more. Scott, please read us out. Yeah, thanks again.

It really is all about the fans. It's mostly about the money, but it's also about the fans. Anyways, today's show is produced by Lara Naiman, Evan Engel, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Andretod engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows

and Neil Silverio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thank you for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business.