Pivot - X’s Check Mark Trouble, Lyft’s Typo, and Bezos’ Tax Break

Episode Date: February 16, 2024

Kara and Scott discuss the country’s latest mass shooting in Kansas City, and a new AI gun safety campaign. Also, X may be violating U.S. sanctions by letting terrorist organizations buy check marks, Jeff Bezos is saving big with his move to Florida, and Lyft’s stock went on a wild ride, all due to a typo. Plus, is Tesla’s Full Self-Driving technology to blame for an employee’s death? And is there merit to a lawsuit alleging Match Group’s apps are addictive? Then, Kara and Scott give an economics teacher their takes on what to teach students. Follow us on Instagram and Threads at @pivotpodcastofficial. Follow us on TikTok at @pivotpodcast. Send us your questions by calling us at 855-51-PIVOT, or at nymag.com/pivot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Just go to Indeed.com slash podcast right now and say you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.com slash podcast. Term'm Kara Swisher. And I'm Scott Galloway. Scott, are you still vacationing? I'm still in the Maldives. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm here with you. How do you like it? I mean, look, it's spectacular. It's vacationing for me. It has the same cadence wherever we are. It starts out like a very mutually supportive yoga retreat where we want to understand our children's feelings and understand why they don't want to do certain things. And we're very supportive of each other. And about three days in, it's like a super max correctional facility where if they don't eat their fucking

lunch, they're going to get tased. So we're at that right now where I'm literally like, I'm like, I'm putting you in the hole if you keep acting this way. I've had it. You know, I don't like vacationing. Oh, really? No, I don't. Oh, I'm very good at vacationing. I just don't like them. I finally admitted this to myself.

Good for you. No, you love to work. But until the age of 40, I never took more than seven days off in a row. And I am making up for lost time. Yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting trend. I have to admit to myself, I get bored. Really?

I don't really want to sit by a pool. I don't like swimming. I don't like dancing and partying. Yeah, but you don't have to just work. I like to write. I've been doing a podcast pretty much every day here. I don't know. I just, I'm not a vacationer.

The only place I love more than anything is Hawaii. And I just, I could live there. You know, I think it's beautiful. There's something about the environment. You know, some places you go to and you're like, this is where I belong. That's the only place I've ever felt that way. And it doesn't feel like a vacation. I just like it. So I don't know. I'm not a vacationer. I don't even have a vacation plan. I should probably have one, shouldn't I? Your birthday party, that's a vacation. Yeah. Yeah. We're excited about that. I'm making up for lost time.

I was like you. I was so focused. I couldn't relax on vacations when I was younger. It just, it didn't work for me. Well, I'm older than you though. But now I'm, yeah, no problem using Enduit. No problem. In any case, well, I'm glad you're having a good time.

We've got a lot to get to today, including new questions raised about Tesla's self-driving mode and Jeff Bezos is reaping the tax benefits on his move to Florida. You can explain this to me, Scott, when we talk about it. But first, we're going to start on a somber note. One person was killed and at least 21 were wounded, including 11 children, in a shooting at the Super Bowl victory rally for the Kansas City Chiefs on Wednesday. Three people are in custody. Officials say they did not believe the motive was terrorism. Wednesday was also the sixth anniversary of the Parkland school

shooting, which some parents marked with a new gun safety campaign featuring AI-generated voices of their late children. This was chilling, but I think necessary. The Wall Street Journal's Joanna Stern had a story about the campaign, which uses the AI voices to send calls to lawmakers and push for greater gun control. As one parent told Joanna, gun violence is the United States problem that has not been solved. So, quote, if we need to use creepy stuff to fix it, welcome to the creepy. You know, these are the parents agreeing to this. The shooting, it's just an astonishing moment where our elected officials are captive of this broken NRA, by the way, if you're reading a lot of the stuff that's going on there as an organization.

It's like there's all kinds of spending, et cetera, problems. I just can't understand how broken it is and how very clearly people are saying this. The parents, people, everybody. I don't know what to do about it, that we're held captive by these gun interests. Yeah, there's definitely a feeling of, you do feel bereft. We have a situation where we have minority rule. If we don't de-gerrymander and get money out of politics, really effective lobbyist groups and money are going to have a disproportionate amount of influence. But there are just certain issues, whether it's family planning, whether it's immigration.

We effectively have an immigration bill that looks like it was written by Republicans that Democrats are willing to support, but it's become so politicized, it doesn't look like it's going to pass. And the majority of Americans believe in some sort of gun registration and what you talked about, some sensible gun control. And we become, we have minority rule. And just to, as I always do, bring it back to me, the Parkland shooting was deeply rattling for me. It was in Florida. I was serving on the board of my kid's school. And within about a week, people were so hysterical. There was a woman,

well-meaning woman, who started showing up to school every day to serve as an impromptu security guard. They wanted to arm the teachers. They wanted to put a security gate around the school. And then there was a large contingent of parents, including myself, saying, schools shouldn't be prisons. And arming teachers is just dumb. And literally six years ago today, and I want to be clear, the reason, you know, I live in London. The reason we moved to London is not because of America, because America's bad. It's due to America because America has been so wonderful to us that we have the opportunity to do this. And I'm going to absolutely move back to America. But a free gift with purchase, Kara, is that I don't have these

fantasies of dropping my kids off at school in Florida and then coming home and seeing on CNN a picture of my kid's school. So the number one and number two reasons for death among kids under the age of 18 is now, it used to be auto accidents, it's now suicide and gun deaths. And it goes right to the core of why do you have an economy? You have an economy and laws to have a vibrant middle class, in my viewpoint. Why do you want a middle class? So you can produce prosperity, innovation, and a tax base such that we can all have better lives and lead prosperous, loving lives. And if you are worried about your kids in terms of self-harm or someone else harming them, then the whole shooting match is lost. So, I just can't figure out why would we be focused on

obsessed with interest rates, talking about even immigration, talking about Ukraine, if we can't figure out a way that parents aren't tangibly and legitimately worried about their child being torn up by hot metal or hanging themselves. Tell me about this AI. Did you read the AI story I sent you? I sent it to you. This was Joanna's piece about these parents who were, these calls are coming from kids who are dead and they took voice obviously they had voices in some recorded and created these kids saying i died this is i was like okay ai i like i i used in this way to really fuck with people to mind fuck them in terms of um what they what these kids speaking from the grave,

essentially. And I think using creepy to fix it, welcome to the creepy. It is definitely creepy. As you know, I've been one of the proponents to show what the damage is to kids from these weapons of mass destruction, these war weapons. Although there are some issues of it becoming interesting to people, right? That they want to kind of look at it in kind of a macabre way. The more we freak people out, the better, as far as I'm concerned. And this was, I think, an effective use of that. I don't know if you think that. Well, it's sort of a Black Mirror version of Emmett Till, right? So Emmett Till was lynched in Mississippi for allegedly whistling at a white woman. And his death became a catalyst for the civil rights movement.

And it wasn't the murder itself. It was that his mother decided to have an open casket so people could see what they did to her boy. And it just caused national outrage. This is an attempt to do that. I do, however, I'm just sort of uncomfortable with, I feel like the dead, even if their parents issue the IP, there's something very uncomfortable about reincarnating people after they're dead. I don't know why it doesn't sit well with me. That's why I like it. That's right. I think that's the point. It doesn't sit well with you. And I do think it's creepy is what it is. And that's the parents said that. And I think upset is what we have to get people, like really upset. We need to change people's tune.

Like we have to shock and horrify them such that they cannot look away. You have to like take their heads, hold it in place and say, look, look at this. Look at what is happening here, including legislators. I would have a picture of a dead child in front of these legislators every day with the parents' permission. of a dead child in front of these legislators every day with the parents' permission. I would have a picture of a dead child right in their face every single day of their lives. Just, you know, I thought, I don't know if it'll make a difference, but when those parents were holding up those pictures of the kids at the Mark Zuckerberg hearing where Mark was testifying, I saw his face.

Maybe he won't do anything about it, but I saw something in his eyes that were like, oh, you know, let them see it over and over and over again. This is where we part company, though. You have more faith. You don't think they care. I think Senator Rubio will suck anyone's cock to be president. And I'm not being, I'm not being. He does that. Yes. And I would agree with you on Senator Graham, too. And by the way, if that sounded like a homophobic slur, I apologize. I was saying that this guy will commit, will do anything. It's fine.

In his nonstop run for presidency, he has lost all these folks. Same thing with Graham. Graham is even worse because at least Rubio has a history of being a suck up. The notion they're going to find some sort of morality. I mean, we keep waiting for that. Unless you have ranked choice voting or final five, they get some moderates in there because term limits, from what I understand, are unconstitutional. These people will only do what they think will get them reelected.

That's it. That's it. And the way you get reelected is by catering to the extremes of your party and by raising money. And so unless you come up, unless we de-gerrymander these hard red and hard blue districts, unless we have final five or ranked choice voting where we Until that happens, the notion that somehow we're just going to send them photos of dead kids and it's going to change their minds, I just don't think it's got to be. I just, the numbers are so profound. It just feels like one of those issues you can really politically get some real bank on. You're right. Look, Lindsey Graham's shifting on Ukraine so quickly after he was such a staunch advocate. I mean, he's such a bottom. He's such a bottom. It's really, it's. Well, and it happens. I mean, I got to be honest.

I don't want to. It happens on both sides of the aisle, right? They're all so angry at each other. They talk themselves. Not like this. Not like this. I would agree with you. It happens more on the right, but it happens on both sides. But they're so focused on embarrassing each other. They've got so caught up that if we only win, if we beat the other side, then we can do the good work. They never get to the good work. I'm going to push back. I think the Democrats have been much more moderate, you know, much more, we're willing to do this border deal we don't love. We're willing to do this and that. I think the Democrats are acquitting themselves with some level of, we need to govern. I think the Republicans have totally and utterly lost the narrative as a group of people. Yeah. The only caveat I would put there, because I feel like

it's my job to occasionally, you know, play the steel man here, is the Democrats, in my view, have not been moderates on Israel. And I think it's taken a lot of- They're moving that way. I hope so. Look at John Fetterman. Biden said something. Hakeem Jeffries, the new guy that got elected from Long Island as a Democrat is pro-Israel. But anyways, I do- I get it. I just think there's at least you're hearing debate that is debate, like actual debate versus just like Lindsey Graham shifting on Ukraine, literally, compromise or endlessly

he wants a job in the Trump administration. Either way, you're a repulsive little man and a sad little man. Anyway, speaking of sad, X is potentially violating U.S. sanctions by letting terrorist organizations buy checkmarks, according to a new report. Well, they need the money. The report from Tech Transparency Project shows X has taken payments from accounts that include Hezbollah leaders and Iranian and Russian state media. The company said in a statement that it has reviewed the report and will take action if necessary. It's started to remove some of these checks, apparently.

And, of course, for once, Elon is keeping his mouth shut because that's what they're doing. The statement also said, we're always committed to ensuring that we maintain a safe, secure, and compliant platform. They're not committed to anything. They're not committed to anything, honestly. Yeah, but the whole check thing has been a disaster for them.

It's hard to tell. As far as I can tell, the check- No, they can't run the company. They can't run the company. Yeah, the check is just someone who has very limited following based on their own merits wants to be put up. And that's fine. Okay, sell me followers or relevance. That's fine.

I don't, you know, it's almost like paid advertising. What strikes me is, and I haven't been on Twitter in now nine months or something, but I go on threads. I haven't been on Twitter in now nine months or something, but I go on Threads. It's striking to me how quickly they have both turned into Fox and CNN, respectively. I find Twitter has gone so red pill. And also, to be fair, I think Threads is very left. It's very blue. Yeah, I would agree. And I can put up a picture of Biden and it'll get a thousand likes on Threads with almost no commentary. And it's very left. Yeah, I would agree with you. I would agree. I don't know if Twitter was sort of you'd see the trolls and the left, the both of them sort of battling it out. And now

it's really a right wing. It's a right wing mass this way. It's useless on many occasions. It's just useless as a platform in terms of having interesting conversations. In threats, I can I get better feedback that's more for most people. it's more civil. But the other day, I kind of took your point of view, which was I had threaded a Jack Schaeffer piece that said the New York Times was doing just fine on the Biden coverage of old. And he made an argument. I didn't agree with him. I kind of agreed more with Margaret Sullivan. I thought they went over the top. It's more civil. I'll say that about it. It's more civil. All he said was read. The reaction I got was that about it. I just said read. I didn't say read, I like this. I didn't say read, I disagree. I just

said, look at this. This is an interesting point of view. You know what this reminds me of? Have you seen the TikTok? There's this great woman. She did the best TikTok and she has pictures of Tracy Chapman speaking. She's like, look at Tracy Chapman. This is the skin of a woman who doesn't get in the comments. This is the skin of a woman who has nothing to prove. This is the complexion of a woman that doesn't take shit. I mean, she just talked about how radiant her was and how beautiful her skin was. And she's like, this is the skin of a woman who gives zero fucks.

And she approached it through like a beauty tutorial. This is how you get amazing skin. I love that. Yes, I would agree. And then let me finish this. So I was like, you cannot comment if you don't read it. And it's none of your business what I don't, then don't follow me. I block everybody and hide. But why are you even going there? Why do you even engage? I really don't like inaccuracy. I know it sounds, we each have our little things. You have your psychedelics.

I have my, I hate inaccuracy. Oh, wait, hold on. I'm a drug abuser and you have, you're a perfectionist. Yeah, okay. Okay. Wow. Okay, whatever. Everyone has their hobbies.

This is my hobby. That's like in an interview. What's your biggest fault? I just can't wait to get things done. You know what I mean. You like to make penis jokes. Fine. No, I just hate tiny inaccuracies.

I'm weird. It's a weird anal retentive thing. Let me finish. So then I said, you know, I had spent time saying Trump was more incoherent on this show. I said, oh, the Chris Wallace show. But I was like, well, Biden is three years older. And everyone lost their minds that I just said he was three years older. And then started into the lecturing over the difference.

And I was like, I literally said that on every platform. The next morning, I woke up and I said, oh, was that a waste of my time? Do I feel bad? And I was talking to Amanda about it. I was like, no, I feel good about that. I feel good. Yeah, but if I were to give advice to 23-year-old Kara just out thinking about graduate school and journalism, it would, one, be absolutely get in people's face, back in their face, clap back. When you think you're right,

stand up for what you believe in. But at the same time, recognize that if everyone agrees with you all the time, you're not saying anything. I know that. And if occasionally people just go crazy and it creates a food fight and they're angry at you, that's just fine. You don't need to weigh in. You don't need to clap back. Just let them punch it out. I agree. I agree. But here's the thing. A lot of people then were like, oh, I see. And I felt like I got a couple of people. I wanted to make it a better platform. That's why. I don't want... Good luck with that. I don't want the Krasnstein gang or the right wing gang to to like take over. I want I want real discussion.

So I'm going to do that. I just did. I felt good about it. I feel good. If it makes you feel good, have at it. All right. Moving on. X isn't the only Elon company having issues.

Tesla's full self-driving technology may be linked to its first death. The Tesla employee was using the feature when his Model 3 veered into a tree and burst into flames, killing him. That's according to a passenger account. While crashes have been linked to Tesla's autopilot technology, the full self-driving technology, which is still in beta, has previously remained in the clear. The driver was found to be intoxicated at the time of the crash, but evidence showed no usage of brakes, and that power was still being applied to the wheels after the crash. The Tesla employee's wife said she feels that she and her husband were just guinea pigs. They got the wife to speak, which was, I think, a very devastating thing to post it.

Elon Musk denied the claims posting on X. He was not on FSD. The software had unfortunately never been downloaded. You know, I'm of two minds here. Like this guy wanted to do it, right, when you're reading it, and probably understood the risks. But this full self-driving technology is not ready for prime time. That's what people have to realize, you know. And to claim otherwise, I think, is really, it's just not ready for prime time.

I'm not sure there'll be any repercussions. People get in accidents every day due to their own fault. But you just said something I didn't know. He was intoxicated? Yes. Well, then, okay. As much as I hate to defend Elon Musk and Tesla, this isn't about Tesla. It's not about self-driving. It's about drunk driving. And full stop. This guy, and I think it's terrible for him and his family. When you get behind the wheel intoxicated, you're taking your and other people's lives in your own hands.

This has nothing to do with Tesla or automated driving. Full stop. This is a drunk driving death. And it's tragic for him and his family. And I hope other people decide that you just don't drink and drive. Full stop. That's it. End of story.

But using this self-driving, for anyone who's used it, which I have, you really need to be paying attention. You need to be paying attention. And to rely on any of these things fully is a mistake for you and your family, right? It just is. And you should be aware when you're driving, driving a car, right? And, of course, drinking is a problem. I can't not drive when I'm in the passenger seat. I'm like, slow down, much less when I have my hands on the wheel.

The idea of a computer. I think eventually, I can't believe, again, we're agreeing with Elon. Eventually this, and not just Elon, a lot of people, eventually this will all be self-driving and it will work pretty well, and occasionally we'll have some deaths and there'll be a mistake as there is constantly with people driving. And I feel terrible for his wife, but he should have been, he's dead. So he should have not done this.

He should have not been drinking. He should have not been just relying on it. The people who do these self-driving have to, for some reason, they're selling it so hard, they have to say it's perfect. And it's just not. It's just not. But it is promising. It is interesting. It is inevitable.

But in this case, you need to be careful, no matter what you're using. I'm a big supporter of the idea of full self-driving. So we'll see where it goes. People get mad at me. There was a, you know, in San Francisco, they lit a Waymo on fire. They're so mad at it. I can't wait for, I'm fascinated by aviation. I think the more logical place would psychologically people can't get there will be automated flying. Well, it kind of is now.

Well, that's right. It is. It already is. And the few times there's an air disaster, it's almost always pilot error. The engineering, these things are so over-engineered. The software is so outstanding. There's so many of the systems are redundant. And I have a lot of respect for pilots. I know them. But it's gotten to the point, in my opinion, that should be the place we should.

I mean, the first place to go is long-haul trucking. They can go from 2 in the morning till 6 in the morning. Which is working. When no one's out there, they're going to have to take some of that money and reinvest it in retraining because I think the number one job in terms of employment in America is actually truck driver for people without a college education. But there's just, to have someone sitting on a lot- There's not enough truck drivers. Do you know that? There's actually 100,000 fewer than we need, but go ahead.

Is that right? That to me is where it should go. But yeah, I think we should have a lot of automation. I'm here for it. Yeah. I think I still, I got to tell you, I'd still like someone who could fly a plane up there. Just one, maybe, just in case. But that's why it'll take longer than it should, because people want someone, unfortunately, usually with a deep voice and good hair who says, you know, buckle up, nothing to worry about, just some chop, folks, we're fine. You know, just, and you're like, okay, we're fine. Someone was in Vietnam and eats beef three times a day is telling me everything's fine. I'm trying to think, what do you go in that you let, an elevator, you're okay with an elevator,

aren't you? Like, and it used to be operators. Oh, automated trains at airports? I mean, yeah, there's a lot of stuff. Automated trains, you're right. Well, there's a guy in the front. Anyway, we'll see. We'll see where it goes. We're so sorry for this family, but it's a little more complicated.

We're going to take an Elon side on this one. I don't know. I don't think he's telling the truth about what's in it, but they need to stop pretending it's perfect. All right, Scott, let's go on a quick break. When we come back, we'll talk about how Jeff Bezos moved to Florida, saving him millions, and we'll take a listener mail question on how to teach kids basic financial literacy, your favorite area. Fox Creative.

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Learn more about how to protect yourself at vox.com slash zelle. And when using digital payment platforms, remember to only send money to people you know and trust. Thumbtack presents the ins and outs of caring for your home. Remember to only send money to people you know and trust. Out. Word art. Sorry, Live Laugh Lovers. In. Knowing what to do, when to do it, and who to hire. Start caring for your home with confidence. Download Thumbtack today. As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month. Every month. At Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at Fizz.ca. Scott, we're back. When Jeff Bezos announced his move to Florida last year, he said he wanted to be closer to his parents and Blue Origin

operations. You and I thought that taxes might also be a factor, and it looks like we were right. Bezos has sold about $4 billion worth of Amazon shares in the last week or so, according to SEC filings. Living in Florida allows Bezos to avoid Washington state's relatively new 7% capital gains tax on sales of stocks and bonds worth more than $250,000. Bezos also reportedly intends to sell 50 million shares over the next year. And thanks to his Florida residency, he'll save at least $610 million, according to CNBC. All right, then. There you have it. Of course, we're going to see more billionaires moving to Florida or Texas. I'll note another billionaire making the move.

Elon Musk just switched SpaceX's incorporation from Delaware to Texas just a few weeks after a Delaware judge voided his Tesla pay package. That's, you know, moving, you know, okay, there you have it. Yeah, like, states, I mean, I don't like to, I wish he was more transparent. He claimed it's because he wanted to be close to his grandfather. His parents. His parents. Like, I think states should compete. I like the fact that Texas and Florida are putting pressure on high-tax states in the Northeast to get their shit together and manage their state more fiscally responsibly. I think it's good when states compete. However, we should have the same treatment of long-term capital gains on stock that you own as we do on options, and it's the following. If you move to Texas from California- Or Washington. And you exercise your options and you have a gain, you pay taxes based on the state when those options vested. And if you are going to make, in Jeff Bezos' case,

$60 or $80 billion by leveraging amongst other things, in addition to your genius, your good fortune, your business acumen, you're going to leverage the University of Washington. You're going to leverage an unbelievable public school system. You're going to leverage the roads. You're going to leverage an environment of technology started by Boeing. You're going to leverage the Seattle-Tacoma, I mean, airport. Then you owe them. You owe them. And if you have built $60 billion in wealth leveraging the infrastructure of Washington state, you need to pay taxes to Washington state on that $60 billion. Now, if and when he decides to move to Texas or Florida, if that $60 billion goes to $100, then fine, he pays no state tax on that incremental $40.

Similar to what we do with options. We know how to do this. It's a little like a divorce, right? When people are trying to move to another state to get a better, like you got to pay your divorce bill. Except you get 100%. Yeah. Yeah.

But if you try to move places in order to save money like this, the tale is old, it's time. Like moving to, where did they move? To Monaco. Monaco is where the Europe is. It's similar to my parents' divorce in the early 70s, where my dad is the billionaire and my mom was the state. My mom got dick and my dad got everything. My mom too.

It's venue shopping. And again, it's a tail as old as time. It's not a new, fresh thing. But I would agree with you. I think that's a smart way to do it. And they're not going to want to do that. And then they should start their businesses in Florida. They should start their business, which they're trying to do.

But it's sort of been a big, it hasn't worked out as well with all those people. Oh, God. Give me a break. All these people coming down to, VCs coming down to Florida, pretending they're going to inspire the tech community when they're not honest. Rather than just saying, I have an enormous unrealized capital gain and I like hanging out in Miami, which is an amazing city, until Florida makes a requisite investment. I mean, it's all the same thing. Every major company or tech company worth over $100 billion, much less $10 billion,

has one thing in common. It's a bike ride from a world-class engineering university. And unfortunately, Florida doesn't have a lot of those, if any. The University of Florida is a great university, but I wouldn't describe it as a great technical university. I don't care if you're Spotify near that great university in Stockholm, or if you're BlackBerry near whatever that university is in Ottawa, you have to make an investment and educate because this is what

happens. No, they don't want to do that. They're cheap bastards. I think St. Louis is going to do really well. Why? WashU has an amazing engineering department. This is what's going to happen. A couple of kids in a dorm are going to start something amazing. They're going to sell it for billions of dollars, and then they're going to fall in love in St. Louis, and they're going to stay there, and they're going to take- Although it only happens a little bit. Chicago, remember when Groupon and a whole bunch of people sort of were going to make Chicago that? It just didn't catch on. It hasn't caught on in Miami. I know they'll call and yell at me. It does happen. It happened in Boston. It's happening in North Carolina.

To an extent. It's happening at Wharton in Philadelphia. It's happening in North Carolina. To an extent. It's happening at Wharton in Philadelphia. To an extent. It still has not replicated what has happened in two places, which in this country, I would say. Three places. Los Angeles for entertainment. Yes. But in terms of half, it's Washington State. It has happened. It's the San Francisco Bay Area and Los Angeles has really... And New York and Boston to an extent, lesser extent. I mean, this is your friend Aileen Lay. It used to be, I'm parroting her, it used to be 95% market share of those two things. Now it's down to kind of 50 or 60. It has been diffused.

Anyways, my point is, but you need money for that. And unless there's, I mean, this is my kind of rant about Florida. The kids from, the brightest kids in Florida all have one thing in common. They leave. And until we can hold on to young people and not be a place for taxpats and seniors, the state's never going to live up to its potential. And it starts with world-class universities, full stop. Yeah, I would say Austin certainly has made it. But there was a big... Look what's happened. Michael Dell, you're making my case. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But there was a big boom there. I covered all this. That's why I wrote a lot about these Silicon Desert or Silicon Cowboy or whatever. There's a boom and then it falls off. Like Dell, definitely Austin is definitely another center, but it still hasn't gotten

even close to Washington State. Like, that's the thing. What's happened in Austin is definitely another center, but it still hasn't gotten even close to Washington State. Like, that's the thing. It's amazing. What's happened in Austin is amazing, Karen. I would agree. I would agree. But it's still not...

And it started with Michael Dell in his dorm room. Yes, I agree. And I think Elon is actually making something significant with SpaceX there. And that's great. Good for him. Anyway, moving on. Lyft shares went on quite a ride this week after the company mistakenly projected its margin would expand 500 basis points in 2024. Stocks substantially spiked 67% in after-hours trading. Lyft, the CFO, clarified on an earnings call that there was only a typo in the press release. The margin was actually expected to expand by 50 basis points. basis points. One analyst called it a black eye moment for Lyft and a debacle of epic proportions.

In spite of the snafu, Lyft did have some actual good news to report. Revenue was $1.22 billion, up 4% from a year ago, and gross bookings jumped 17% in Q4. Wow. Oops. Oops. Yeah, this gave me PTSD. First off, good for Lyft. And they had a good quarter. So I started coming to Red Envelope. And I brought in this master of the universe, Mike Moritz, who eventually took my role as chairman. And I said, basically, my partner did an audit of the technology of the company and said, all the technology we have is shitty technology. The only thing it all has in common is it's the shitty technology of Sequoia portfolio companies. And he sent that memo to the board. I copied it and said, Mike, you're not doing your job as a fiduciary to all shareholders. You're using Red Envelope

as a dumping ground for the failed products of your portfolio companies. And two days later, I was kicked off the board. And so being a very angry man with a lot of time on his hand and a little bit of money, which is very dangerous, I ran a full-scale proxy fight to replace the board and the CEO, who was a total incompetent, and that's being kind. But because I challenged the master of the universe, he decided she was a great CEO and wasn't going to go anywhere. About six months later, she went on an earnings call and said, oh, when we said we had gross margins of 48 points, we were wrong. We overestimated

our gross margins by 1,000 basis points. And our actual gross margins are 38 points. And the stock went from 12 to 7 in a single trading day. And at that moment, I knew I was going to win the proxy fight at the next annual meeting because every investor went, this management team is totally incompetent to overestimate gross margins by a thousand basis points. So when I saw that, but this quite frankly, it wasn't as bad. This was a typo. This wasn't management coming together and trying to figure out like just getting numbers wrong. This was a typo, but it sent the stock on a wild ride. And my guess is there's going to be, I'll be curious to see if there's shareholder lawsuits,

but it's more sort of, it makes for good spectacle here than anything else. But the stock went crazy thinking that they had vastly outperformed. It was a beat, but they thought it was an amazing beat. Anyways, it was an opportunity for me to relive my tour of Vietnam called Red Envelope. beat. Anyways, it was an opportunity for me to relive my tour of Vietnam called Red Envelope. Lastly, a match group, home of Tinder and other dating apps, is being sued for creating addictive products. The lawsuit claims the business model is predatory and rewards compulsive use, accusing the company of negligence and violation of consumer protection laws. The accusation of similarities to litigation other social platforms have faced about knowingly

designing addictive features in a statement match called L at ridiculous and set it at zero merit the suit also seeks damages for people who paid to use the apps and new warnings about risk uh risks of addiction i i don't know what to say i i feel like that i'm kind of on matches side it's ridiculous you're kidding dating apps are addictive like i don't know. I don't know. Am I missing something here? Yeah. Tell us something we don't know. I mean, it feels like it'd be not just cocaine, but crack cocaine. Not only do they implement the same sort of gamification and visual stimulation and random rewards that Tristan Harris talked about that create that slot machine effect, which you constant doba by just pulling the arm again.

But when you're thinking about the opportunity for a romantic relationship, and you get evaluation or you get feedback, some positive, but mostly negative, especially if you're a man on these apps, I can't imagine these apps wouldn't be addictive. How could they not be addictive? I don't know. Is there a lawsuit here, though? Is there some? I don't. Right? Because we kind of are like, yeah, these social platforms. Yeah, tell us something we don't know. Alcohol's addictive. Okay, what do we do about it? Yeah, but so this is why, this is the only reason I'm asking, and I'm going to play devil's

advocate here, is we think social media platforms should be held accountable for what it does to teen girls or addiction and stuff like that. And we think that's okay. Is this any different or not? I mean, these things get pretty mendacious pretty fast, fake profiles, where they give people the sense that there's more opportunity and build their hopes when there isn't. You know, that's pretty, that's sort of, that's just immoral. That's just not, but they're not doing anything that any other app that's selling sneakers or washing machines is doing, trying to create you to just stick on the app. I don't. Yeah, but how's it different than social media?

Because I know you and I are. I don't think it is. It isn't. It isn't. So should, but we think social media should be subject to lawsuits around addiction or not because it definitely has self-esteem issues, which is linked to addiction of using them, right? Well, it's not... Okay. Addiction itself, I think, is so complicated to prove in a court. I think what we've advocated for is that around health, as it relates to kids,

maybe even elections, that similar to the rest of media, they should not have Section 230 protections such that if they find that, in fact, Facebook is sending out emails to girls, teen girls, with images helping them kill themselves, that they have some liability for that. We're not going to even go to trying to prove what is addictive or what isn't addictive, because ice cream is addictive. We're going to go to liability. Now, if kids, if they are lying to people and saying, okay, there's a ton of really hot, interesting people here who are really interested in you and they're fake profiles and they're not such that you spend more money, that's fraud, right? But we have big laws around addiction. We tried to outlaw alcohol,

it didn't work. I think that's tough to figure out. What about something, I suppose on cigarettes, there's warnings, right? Maybe they could have warnings on them in this regard. Warning, pursuing love is addictive or bad for your health. It is. Addicted to love, play that song. Might as well face that you're addicted to love. I've never been on a dating app, although my nickname at the office was Swipe Left. What is Swipe Left? Tell me. I don't know because I've never- Swipe Left is I'm not interested. Oh, okay. Got it. Okay. I like that. I'm going to call you that, swipe left. Thanks for that.

No problem. I personally, would I advise single people? I think it's easy to be a purist when you're in a relationship. If I were single, I would be accepting every invitation to a dinner party. I'd be letting my friends know that I was single. I'd be letting my friends know that I was single. I'd be politely and in a dignified way when I met people professionally, following up and seeing if they might be interested in coffee and trying partnership where maybe someday you decide to partner together economically and have children. And you know what? It's really fucking hard. And it requires effort and rejection. And I say do it all.

I see all the negatives. There's a great Vanity Fair reporter, wrote a great story about sort of the way men treat women on these apps. And I didn't like it. It was really kind of repulsive. I think it's the opposite, Cara. I know. And let me just finish.

Let me just. So there's lots of issues with these apps, including bad profiles, et cetera, et cetera. And sort of the way people treat each other is kind of interchangeable and fungible, which I don't like. But that happens in life at bars, too. So it's not like a new, fresh thing. But that happens in life at bars too. So it's not like a new fresh thing. On the whole, I've had heard as many as horror stories there are. I think there's been a lot of really wonderful stories of people meeting on these things. Many of my friends met on apps and are married. It's been greational. It is what it is in that regard. But I think they make some... A friend of mine keeps taking it off his app because it makes him feel bad. Louis had a dating app. He took it off, made him feel bad. I've never used

them, so I can't speak from experience. but I do think on the whole, they're kind of okay. Just like, I think they're better than bars in some cases. Bars can be really depressing. What dating apps do is they speedball a market. And that is because everybody thinks they have access technically to everybody. They, in some instances, women increase their standards and you can't tell a woman to not increase her standards, right? The problem is that the top 10% of men get 80 plus percent of the interest,

letting them engage in what I'll call Porsche polygamy, which doesn't incentivize them to establish long-term relationships and quite frankly, lets them get away with probably what is not great behavior. At the same time, if you want as a man who is, if you're 5'8", and you're not making hundreds of thousands of dollars, and maybe you're not great looking, and maybe you didn't graduate from MIT, you don't have a chance to be funny. You don't have a chance to demonstrate you're kind. You don't have a chance to demonstrate that you have wonderful body language or are confident. It's all about online. Essentially, with women, it's their aesthetics, and with guys, it's their ability to signal resources. But the difference is men have

lower standards and will swipe right a lot more. And if you want to talk to validation, the men, what I'll call the lower half of attractiveness on basic economic viability, you want to find a means of validating they have no worth to the opposite sex, they should just go on dating apps. It's really brutal for what I'll call an average man. Yep. No, 100%. Again, I've never been on them. Never been on them. I'm too famous. I've heard, actually, though, you know what? I won't say their names. There's some very famous people on apps. Oh, that fancy app, right? That fancy app.

Raya or whatever. Raya, yeah. The League, whatever. Raya, The League. their names there's some very famous people oh that way that fancy apt right that uh that fancy whatever the league whatever or i have the league actually it's not true that i've never been on the app years ago i'll tell the story very quickly bear and i didn't actually didn't put in my book um barry diller uh called me and said this is a really cool app they had just invested in it and so i i loaded it up and looked at it and i had written a lot about dating apps, you know, all the other ones that existed. And they were different. I knew how they worked. And I hadn't, this was Tinder, it was Tinder. And so I looked at it and you had to load yourself up to look at it. And I was like, all right, I'll create a profile to see how it works, which I do with a lot of apps. And I was like, all right, I'll create a profile to see how it works, which I do with a lot of apps. And I didn't realize you're up live the minute you do it.

And all of a sudden, I started to get, like, essentially older lesbians and young goth girls, like, went at me. And I was like, what? I'm live? Like, what? You can't, you couldn't skulk. You couldn't, you couldn't, like, wander around anonymously on it. And I was, I was married at the the time and I took it right down. I was like, oh my God, I was like live on it.

But it was super interesting for the four seconds I was on it. It's funny because I did something similar. I went on Seeking Arrangements. And since then, I've been having sex with Russian and Brazilian girls in exchange for $400 and a bottle of La Roche-Posay. And I've been doing it for seven years, but strictly for research. Strictly for research. Okay. Strictly. Strictly. I wonder, is that what it costs? I don't even know what it costs. I just pulled out of the air. It's got to be more than that.

I don't know. I don't know what you're talking about. I'm just trying to move on as fast as I can to get us out of this. Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question. Okay, Scott, let's pivot to a listener question. This question comes in via email from Jesse. I'll read it. Scott and Kara, I've been listening to your show for about a year now. I recently changed careers from operating a small company that I founded with a friend to teaching high school in Flatbush, Brooklyn. I was thrown headfirst into teaching economics.

My question is, given this golden opportunity to educate the youth on the subject of econ, what do you recommend I cover? One of the other teachers at the high school called High School Economics Adulting 101. I want to arm kids with financial literacy. What are some of the lessons you wish you had learned earlier?

Any resources you could share for making what seems to be one of the most boring topics? Interesting. Thanks, Jesse. Jesse, it's not boring at all. Money is not boring at all, at all. Like, I think this is a great course

and I think kids should, I think this should be absolutely required in high school. And I don't call it economics. Call it money 101 or adulting is fine. I think this is great. There's all kinds of books kids could read. I think they should do hands-on stuff. That's always the best way to do it is doing hands-on use,

making investments, et cetera, et cetera. I think this is a critical course for kids and it is very interesting to them. I don't think they're not interested in it. I don't know. What do you think? I think it's wonderful. And when we talked about this, I heard from, I was trying to find the emails we were talking from this, I don't know if it was a guy or a woman, but saying that they are very involved in high school financial literacy and now 50% of high schools are offering some sort of course. But I noticed this with my own boys. My own boys can do derivatives and, you know, no calculus, but don't understand the interest on a credit card or don't understand why I'm shopping for a better mortgage rate. I'm like, okay, they should be learning that first.

So I think it's great. I think there's a lot, unfortunately, because I think things have become so politicized and so sensitive and every lawyer at a school district is like, just don't do it. It's too much risk. I think we should absolutely have more education about the difference between the male and the female brain. I think we should have classes in mating dynamics. I quite frankly, and this is going to get me a ton of shit. I think we should be teaching young men and young women about menopause. Someone should have clued me in as to what my mother was going through. There is a sex education course.

I don't think you should call it Mating 101. I feel like that's not going to work in Florida. Yeah, but mating dynamics. Just how do... There is sex education. Kids still take that course. My kids don't. I think it's called sex ed.

Yeah. Anyways, I think there's a lot of opportunity to help. Because when I've had to try... What's interesting is people say, well, that's the parents' responsibility. Whenever I have to try to have these conversations with my kids, they literally run for the hills. They're just not interested in getting a lecture from me about interest rates or their— I had a good conversation with my boys about that. I know, I know.

That's because you're a much better parent than me. But anyways, and you also have much better attention to detail. No, I just was like condoms, boys. Anyways, but financial literacy in high school, I think it should be mandatory. And I think kids would be interested. I think kids want to know, understand the stock market. I think they want to understand stocks and bonds, understand why it's important to understand the interest on your student loans. Savings. What's good debt? What's bad debt? I do think parents, though, should take it. I spent a lot of time recently with Alex because

he's sort of on his own for the first time financially over all kinds of things. Not just that, not just getting on a plane, but there's a mess in your airport. I was like, figure it out. And then he did. Like, and I'll give you three tips, but figure it out. And we do that with money. I've been doing that with money for them for a while. Like, you know, pay your bill.

Like, they're like, what do I do? I'm like, here's, I'll tell you once, and then you have to figure it out from there. I recently was discussing mortgages with Louie because, you know, he just, at some point soon, he'll be thinking of saving up for a house or something like that. But I think it's important. My mom used to ask me to help her work with her to balance her checkbook. Remember those checkbooks? Like you'd go through and you'd write a check and you'd write it out and you'd do the math. I learned on my own. My mom wasn't very good at that part. But the sex stuff, same thing. It's all these things. Adulting 101 is actually a great name for a course. And it could include dating. It could include not sex, but dating. You know what I mean? That, relationships. It could include finance, getting an apartment, renting, all kinds of stuff. Hygiene. I know it sounds dumb, but hygiene. Do you want me to talk to your kids about anything? Do you need help? Yeah.

Yeah. No, I need you in India right now. Get on a plane right now for the southwest coast of India because I have had it with them. I have had it. I just was like, two things, boys. You be nice to ladies. If you aren't, I'm going to break your arms and condoms. Thank you. That was my entire discussion. All right? It's your responsibility. There you go.

It's your responsibility as a man. That's what I said. Anyway, and they were okay. They didn't flee. That's good advice. I was very straightforward with them about it. Anyway, that's what we say. Thank you, Jesse.

I'm glad you're teaching that. It's really great, and every high school should have it. All right, so if you've got a question of your own you'd like answered, send it our way. Go to nymag.com slash pivot to submit a question for the show or call 855-51-PIVID and be as smart as Jesse. That's a great question. All right, Scott, one more quick break. We'll be back for predictions. predictions? Okay, Scott, let's have a prediction from you. I feel like I've had one in a while. Go for it. Yeah, mine are pretty, this one's pretty boring and I think I'll agree with it. I think that two people are going to have an outsized impact on the election. And I'm talking our book because we're both progressives here.

But we talked about last week, I think Taylor Swift could be a seminal force in the election with a turnout to vote. I think we're going to hear her. Did you see that poll? I didn't. One in five Americans believes she's- Oh, it's a conspiracy. It's a conspiracy that she's working with the CIA or whoever. It's crazy. One in five and about half of America has heard of the conspiracy theory. I don't know.

Less than half of America has a passport. There's a lot of weird stuff going on in America. But Taylor Swift, we talked about. But the other one, I was so blown away

by Jon Stewart's inaugural show. You liked it. Some people criticized. I loved it too. But go ahead. I mean... Go ahead. Tell me why.

I agree. He hit everyone in the fucking face. I mean, he just said, I mean, the moment when he said, it was just so hilarious when he showed all the clips, all of Biden's cabinet. And he was like, I was with the president today. And he was sharp. And he was focused. And he was on point.

And then Jon Stewart just goes, do you have any of that on film? Because we never seem to capture those moments on film. And then he goes after Trump. He took a wallop at Trump. He's literally, and I'm guilty of this, he has something that I'm struggling to hold on to. And that is pure, un-fucking-filtered truth. Going after both sides. It is ridiculous that these, you know,

perfect is not on the menu here. And he is absolutely hitting both sides hard. And I think he has so much credibility among the people. And there's nothing like humor to soften the beach before the Marines come in. The moderates will decide this election, the swing voters. And swing voters immediately put up their screen and go, yeah, whatever, partisan, right? This guy is so hard hitting on between an old guy and an old guy who's a fascist. And we get it. I've said that last week, right? But the story wasn't about fascism. The story was about these guys being too old. I know, but they were saying he should have noted that one of them is a fascist and more. I'm just telling you. I'm just... I get it. But the reason why he's so effective... That's what he got criticized more. I'm just telling you. I get it.

But the reason why he's so effective. That's what he got criticized for. I'm just telling you. I'm sure the right would have said, yeah, but they should have pointed out that Biden just seems really fucking old. I mean, both sides have their yeah, but that they would have liked Jon Stewart to do. He was talking about the fact. He doesn't care.

He's not there. He's not there to please you. The average age of Americans is 38. I had Admiral Stavridis on my show, this guy who commanded, he's been in charge of carrier strike forces, this incredibly impressive man, came across as spry and youthful.

I think he's probably late 50s, early 60s. It is insane, literally insane. And he just needed to point it out on both sides that this is where we ended up. Anyways, I'll bring it back. Taylor Swift, we talked about. I think we're going to hear the name John. I think John Stewart is going to play an enormous role

in the election and in the discourse over the next nine months. I would agree. I also threaded that. I said, this was true. He still got it. He still fucking got it. Oh my God, great.

Again, I got whacked by all the lefties and progressives or whatever. And I was like, you know what? He's not here. He's not going to go changing to try to please us. He is doing his job. And, you know, whatever. You don't have to like it. You don't have to watch it. And by the way, again, they didn't watch it. They didn't watch it. And I'm like, you cannot comment at me unless you saw it. Sorry. I just refuse to listen to a word you say. And I'm going to block you if you do that. One of the things I think he said at the end, which I really resonated with me is sort of blame game that goes on with everyone feeling like I've gotten, I'm terrified, I'm this. He said, it's up to fucking you. Every day, you got to get in there and fight the fight. You can't, you have to stop blaming everybody else. It's about, I was trying to make this point.

They were like, you know, they were attacking the media. Fine, attack the media. But you know who it is? It's voters. Go persuade voters. You have tools to persuade voters. The media is not going to save you. The media is not going to save you.

It's just not, I like it. You are, He said this at the end, and it was so articulate. It's like, stop fucking bellyaching and get in the fight. Get in the fight and do what you want, but stop complaining. And I love that. I thought that was a particularly good thing. Outstanding. That was outstanding. Oh, my gosh.

I watched it on YouTube last night. That was some of the fastest 20 minutes I'd seen. And by the way, ratings are up. You can talk about he's old and nobody's, and the decline in these shows. That's 100% true. But ratings were fantastic for that. It was fantastic for the Super Bowl. It was, people will watch if good shit is happening.

That's just the way it is. And it rose rather significantly. He's sort of like the Rachel Maddow slot, right? MSNBC has her and people really like what she does. He'll play a much bigger role than Rachel Maddow because moderates put up a screen when they see Rachel. Is it standing as she is? I agree. I agree.

But I'm just saying. I'm not going to comment on her politics. She shows up with real work. She's an outstanding professional. But he will have, it's frightening and it's true. This election is going to be decided by 50 to 100,000 kind of ex-urban soccer moms in three or four states. And those folks- Persuadables. One, I think a lot of younger people are going to turn out that ordinarily wouldn't turn out if Taylor Swift tells them to. And I think as we go younger, they're more democratic. And two, Jon Stewart just, I think, increasingly will highlight the have this guy running, quite frankly. But he's too old, but he's not a fascist, and he's not a criminal. And he's a young administration. And he surrounded himself with youth and vigor. Jon Stewart will call balls and strikes,

and the balls and strikes are on our side over the next nine months. And I think a lot of moderates are just going to listen to this guy. You watch. Trump's going to go after him and start attacking him because he's going to realize he's starting to hurt him when he just highlights the truth every week. And the reason why this guy has so much credibility is he's unafraid to go after how fucking insane it is that Biden is running.

Yeah. And he gets credibility among Biden is running. Yeah, yeah. And he gets credibility among the moderates. Anyway, Taylor Swift and Jon Stewart. I got to say, Jon Stewart's very popular among the young people too, much more so than you realize, I would say. It's not just us. It's not old people us. Not just old people who are on seeking arrangements.

Generous bald man with home in Soho who vacations in the Maldives. Looking for fun girl for no frills fun. Okay, okay. Anyway, John, good job. You are not irrelevant anymore. Okay, Scott, that's the show. Don't forget to check out our feed on Tuesday, which is a special crossover episode with Esther Perel's Where Should We Begin? Scott and I went for couples counseling with Esther,

and you can hear all about our special relationship. And we didn't even meet on an app. It was just Meet Cute. That's how we met, cute, in Germany. That's where we met. Auf Deutschland, we met cute. Anyway, please listen to it. It's actually good.

Scott, you were very vulnerable. You were very vulnerable. It was a beautiful, beautiful time. Anyway, please listen to it. It's actually good. Scott, you were very vulnerable. You were very vulnerable. It was a beautiful, beautiful time. Anyway, please read us out. Today's show was produced by Lara Naiman, Zoe Marcus, and Taylor Griffin. Ernie Untertott engineered this episode. Thanks also to Drew Burrows and Mille Severio.

Nisha Kurwa is Vox Media's executive producer of audio. Make sure you subscribe to the show wherever you listen to podcasts. Thanks for listening to Pivot from New York Magazine and Vox Media. You can subscribe to the magazine at nymag.com slash pod. We'll be back next week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care.

Have a great weekend.