Pixelated - A Pixel-Apple-Pixel Sandwich

Episode Date: September 12, 2025

Welcome to episode 69 of Pixelated, a podcast by 9to5Google. This week, Abner, Damien, and Will kick off by talking about Pixel sales growth, with a recent Counterpoint report suggest 105% YoY growth for Google's smartphone lineup. After analyzing just what it means for the future of both Pixel and Android, the crew hops over to the other side of the fence to share their thoughts on Apple's latest iPhone lineup. Don't worry, loyal listener — they also make sure to wrap-up with some extended thoughts on the Pixel 10's battery and camera performance, with a promise of much more to come. Subscribe YouTube Podcasts Pocket Casts Spotify Apple Podcasts Overcast Timecodes 00:00 - Pixel sales growth 19:27 - iPhone 17 compared to Pixel 10 25:58 - iPhone 17 Pro thoughts 36:15 - iPhone Air and S25 Edge comparison 47:23 - Pixel 10 after a few weeks Hosts Abner Li Damien Wilde Will Sattelberg Read more Google Pixel is now the fastest growing premium smartphone brand in the world Hands-on: iPhone 17 Pro and iPhone Air [9to5Mac] Why choosing between the iPhone Air and the Pro isn’t easy for everyone [9to5Mac] Pixel 10 Pro XL Initial Review: 10 generations in, Google is still trying to get it right Listen to more 9to5 Podcasts The Sideload 9to5Mac Happy Hour Electrek Space Explored Feedback? As mentioned at the end of the episode, we're looking for Pixel 10 questions! Feel free to send Damien your most pressing Pixel queries and opinions at [e-mail]. For everything else, drop us a line at [e-mail], leave a comment on the post, or reach out to our producer.

So guys, we've had some news last couple of days. It seems like every year this is happening that the pixel is officially the fastest growing premium smartphone. I think in the world, I don't know if it's, yeah, in the world, from new research, from counterpoint. I mean, do we feel like this is happening every single year? Like you sell one, then next year you sell 10, that's 1,000%? Who's it 100% growth?

A thousand percent growth? I don't know. It seems like we're talking about this all time, right? Yeah, so I think that what, that's based on the pixel nine has to be. So that was a big year, fresh year, new design, catches people's attention. I don't know. It's who else would it be that? Yeah, who else would be a premium brand?

Yeah, that's a really good question, actually. Yeah, that is a really good question. Like, how do you define what is technically a premium brand? I guess is it over a certain price point? Is it certain hardware features? I'm guessing the kind of the eggs is over a certain price point, right? So let's see, Razor, I guess. I don't know, we hear things that Razors is one of the most popular foldables in the US or something.

I could see them. Samsung is Samsung? What's one plus market penetration in the US? I would imagine it's a lot more, right? In the US, I haven't, Will? No, not really. That sounded really sad. That sounded really sad.

I have known one person in my life that's not in technology that brought a one plus. I know one person who has a one plus phone and it's because I gave it to them. So I don't think that's a sad indictment because I do. genuinely I think Oneplus have done some amazing things, especially over the past few years. And I wax lyrical about the One Plus 12 and 13. I think, yeah, the 13 is like an incredible phone in my opinion. But like if we, I guess if we look at it more broadly, if we include One Plus in there

and they may be probably, I don't even, I don't know the exact figures for Oneplus because they're not available in this data report from Counterpoint. They're not even listed. So that's quite sad. They're kind of in the Others section. Google's seen like I think according to this information to 105% growth in the past 12 months from the first I don't know it's 2024 to 2025 or 2023 to 2024 I'm not entirely sure I'll have to check that in a moment for you but yeah to go from effectively it is a bit of

a standing start for Google isn't it of the last few years especially since they've reinvented the pixel six series I feel like in the UK specifically Google has struck a call with buyers. So I don't know if you guys are seeing it more in the US. Are you, like, Android isn't as pervasive. Do you genuinely see more pixels out and about when you're kind of like just doing your daily, day-to-day life? I think I'm still at the point where when I see somebody with a pixel, it still stands out to me. So that probably answers the question. Yeah. No, I agree. I see them every now and then. And I definitely see them more than I used to, But it's also like we are, you know, in generation five of a design that is really easily recognizable anyway, right?

Like the camera, although I guess that's about to be less true because we've seen other smartphones start to be like, you know, I like that camera bar idea you have going on there. But like largely speaking, like six, seven, eight, nine, ten, all of those pixels are like really easy to point at in a crowd versus, you know, you might recognize a Samsung phone. and it's, you know, triple lens layout, usually unless it's an ultra. But, like, you're not going to know what phone it is necessarily just by seeing someone pointed up because it could be an A series, could be an S25, who knows. Yeah, I don't know. They're there, but they're certainly not, like, iPhone level, at least around me. Like, not particularly close, which I think is what we're getting at, where it's like

Google is certainly building its brand finally after, you know, literally a decade of pixel devices, but it's, you know, these fastest growing numbers are coming, as you said, David, because like if you go from selling 10 to selling a thousand, which obviously the numbers are much higher, but you're going to get that huge percentage increase we're seeing here. But then I guess to play devil's advocate again, you mentioned iPhones and it's kind of like, I mean, that's definitely a culture shock for me coming to the US. And when I went to I, you see people walking around at a Google event with iPhones. I thought that was kind of strange, but I guess it is kind of part of the culture

that I message is so ingrained and entrenched within people's daily lives that you kind of need to play the game otherwise you're going to get left behind effectively. But do we, I wonder if some of this growth, this in air quotes, explosive growth, is as a result of the fact that iPhone has reached almost market saturation.

Like there are very few people who are going to make that switch now and the rate at the way they switch. I do feel like people kind of set out the stall. I was one of these people who used iPhone the iPhone 3, 3GS, and then went to the 4, and then that was it. I was like, I've had enough of this now.

I'm going to go to Android through the Nexus series, and that was it. I was hooked. I do wonder if there are many people who eventually make their way back. I feel like it's less prevalent. I don't know. I'm a little bit kind of agnostic

in terms of hardware, but software, it has to be Android. I still think that the biggest motivator, the biggest catalyst for that has been the pixel fold or other Android foldables. That's the thing that has gotten iOS users to switch. And I guess my brother question is, has it 10 years of, 10 generations of pixel?

Has it, I guess I've been wondering why it's been taking so long for Google to get significant numbers. I don't see them ever reaching Samsung. I just don't. And if they do, I think that really changes the relationship between those two companies on other levels.

But even to get a significant fraction of Samsung's pie would be significant. And I guess my question is, do you think it's taking pixel too long to get to number two, in the marketplace? Or is there always a limiter to Google to how far Google wants to take this? I think, I know, I 100% agree with your Samsung comment. I feel like Google can't undermine their relationship with Samsung by having their devices available in, say, every single market.

But I think that's one of the biggest problems. There are only 33 countries around the globe where you can go and buy a pixel. That is a drop in the ocean compared to, say, the iPhone or even, in the latest Samsung Galaxy devices, at the low end and the high end as well, actually. I think most, and this is why this is obviously clearly a premium growth area, because Pixel is positioned as a premium device. I think the biggest problem now is that with the A series, it would make a lot of sense with the A series

to just put that in every single market where you could potentially put it, because the kind of people are going to spend $500 on a phone, and then obviously it's going to go down less and less and less. you can sell that in more markets where people potentially have less disposable income and do want an experience which is, let's be completely honest, a lot better than some of these cheaper brands out there,

be that show me, real me, I think, in Phoenix, there's a few other techno maybe. The sad fact of it is that those devices, while they might have nice hardware and they throw in things to try and sell their devices, the software experience is just not as good. And if AI is going to be, this vehicle that helps, well, it's a vehicle within the pixel lineup,

definitely feels like just get those devices in as many hands around the globe as possible. So they could, yeah, going back to what you said, Abner, I don't think they ever get anywhere remotely close to Samsung personally. I think being a bit part player in a market is absolutely fine. And I think that doesn't hurt Google in any way, shape, or form because all these other companies have had another seven, eight to ten years, potentially in the smartphone space. And Google doesn't have the manufacturing capabilities

to compete with Samsung, to compete with Apple, even to some of the other, at greater extent, some of the Chinese manufacturers, Google does not have a manufacturing base that these companies have. So maybe that might hinder them in the short term as well. I don't know. I don't know how you feel about it.

Will I know that you just mentioned that iPhone is so huge. So maybe that's one of the reasons why. And I'll open this by saying, what I'm about to say is probably a U.S. centric point of view, because unfortunately that's just going to bring it to the table. But I think there's a few things at play here, right? I think Google

has advertised the pixel since the pixel one, but I think they really took things up a notch with their advertising campaigns with starting around the Tenser era and really into the 7 and 8 and you know, you can't watch a sporting event without seeing a pixel ad. I feel like

any time I go to like a national chain theater, not like a local theater, but like a national chain theater, you are going to get pixel ads in the pre-roll every time. Like, it is, it is, um, it is more of a mind share thing, I think. Like, people do know that Google makes a phone series called pixels. And iPhone users know that. Again, anecdotally, but talking to people, they know, I feel like when they know Android phones, they know Samsung, they know the pixel, and then they probably know like the razor. Like, I think that has also like been able to, although that, you know, I think if they were advertising more, it might be even better. But, um, so I think there's

like a couple things that play here, right? I think like part of it is that I think Google is finally starting to chip away at the idea that like Samsung is Android, which I think, again, especially in the U.S. I think that has been a like, you know, over the last 10 years or so, as we've seen competitors like LG fall by the wayside. I think the idea of, it's iPhone or Samsung and, and so Samsung people are just sticking on that side. I think that's falling away a little bit. And then I think people are just kind of looking for something new. And the pixel design is so specifically Google.

Like, like there isn't really, I mean, again, there kind of is now. But for the most part, there really isn't a phone that looks like the pixel in the same way. There is one. There's one. But like, largely speaking, like Google really struck its own identity with the pixel six and has, you know, basically kept that core design. while obviously evolving it over the last five years, four years, excuse me. And I don't know.

I think it's like starting to work. And I think people are generally looking for something new, even if the vast population of iOS users or even Samsung users are probably going to stick with what they know. But, but that, I don't know. Like, again, I can only speak, it's hard to like, unless your counterpoint, it's hard to go find like real polling on this. but like talking to people about smartphones, there is more of an attitude of like,

yeah, I'm not like fully against switching anymore, even if they're probably not going to get over the hump of how annoying it is to switch platforms. I, you made a really good point there. Like the mind share situation. Like, okay, let's look at the,

we talked to, we talked to briefly about the keynote, the Pixel 10 keynote. I genuinely think, and I don't know this is just a theory this is like a conspiracy theory I guess I do wonder if Google played into the fact

that they wanted it to be schlocky and cringy and stuff because effectively the more people talk about your product online the more your product is known by people so the kind of people who were like oh go look at this cringy thing that it was Jimmy Kimmel right who was it Fallon

Phallon Jimmy Fallon okay there's too many jimmies one of those guys so Jimmy Fallon was on obviously he hosted it he acted like he didn't know any, he didn't know what was going on, which I think was kind of marketing genius in a lot of ways, because you can click that up. And the kind of people who are going to clip that up and put it

on TikTok potentially are going to say, oh, look at this really cringy thing that Google did. But it doesn't matter because say four or five million people watch that. That's four or five million people who didn't know your product existed. And Google probably knows that better than anyone. They're an advertising company first and foremost, right? So it feels very much like it was a win-win because the kind of people who are dunking on Google over the last 24, 48 hours, which will come on to the reasons why, related to another piece of hardware,

which we don't talk about very often here. But I think that's a fantastic thing. Like, you just mentioned it will. People know pixel now. And the idea all Google needs to do is put the seeds of doubt in someone's mind. And I do wonder if that has been kind of intertwined into this design change to make it look almost,

I guess the pixel straddles, pure iPhone hardware, Samsung hardware, and then being its own thing in between. And I do wonder if that halfway house is going to benefit them. And it seems like it, according to this,

if you just look at the raw information here and don't analyze it very deeply, 105% growth in a year is fantastic for any company. The fact that they were struggling to sell devices prior to that, I think it was, was it the pixel four is the highest selling pixel

technically to date until the, was it the seven? or eight series that broke that record. And then the nine has broken it again. Like something's working. And I do feel like that there was a lot of these things at play, whether or not Google stumbled on this accidentally or are they meant to do it,

which I'm going to give them credit and say they probably did. Yeah. That's only going to be a good thing, right? I guess to wind this up, two questions. What is Google's definition of success for the pixel? And two, have they been meeting it? I wonder if it's not even a sales number as much as it's a like, and I don't think it started this way, but it is now. It is just a like, this is a way to get Gemini in the hands of people and to get people to use Gemini. And so Google's like, it probably isn't even a sales figure, which is why they, they typically don't really share like hard sales numbers on these phones. It's, it's a like, we want people to use Gemini. We are ahead on this, right? Like we have, this is a space that. Apple usually thrives in where it's like, oh, we have the combination of hardware and software.

But that's Google this time, right? In this like AI landscape we're looking at where they have, you know, like one of the two most popular like LLMs, I would say, right? Like Gemini, it's Gemini and ChatGBT, GBT, I would say, at the top of the list. And they're able to, unlike OpenAI, unlike Apple, they're able to like use that leverage to be like, okay, this is also just like a Gemini phone. Like that's what it is first and foremost. So I think, you know, I don't know if it's working,

but like I would guess that their level of success is not like we sold 50 million pixel tens. It's we sold a bunch of pixel tens and everybody is using Gemini on it. Like I think that's what they're more interested in as a company. I think that's probably the end goal, right? I guess if some of the, Apple services start to loosen the grip other people, be that I message, be that I

cloud, whatever it is. I do wonder if obviously Google and chat GPT are trying to bank on everyone, the iron grip of AI in the next three to four years. Like you said, Will, I think you're going to be using one of two LLMs, right? The two biggest. I mean, chat GPT is far and away the biggest, but they're never going to have that hardware integration that Google can have. That Johnny I of gadget. Yeah, maybe. Or whatever it is. It might not even be a, who knows, I don't know what to call it. I love it if it was a jackard jacket or something. That would be fantastic.

I do genuinely think, yeah, that is what they're banking on. And I don't think that the hardware sales figures sounding significant, but they're not, because they're smashing some of these smaller brands like One Plus. Like One Plus would probably kill for, say, 15 million phones sold worldwide on their flagship model. But I just can't see them ever doing that because the market penetration in the big markets, as it were, be that Western Europe and North America, it's just, it's almost impossible to break that States. And they're not in carrier stores anymore. I mean, I know they have a Best Buy partnership,

but like, if you are not in carrier stores, you were not going to succeed in the US. And, like, Google has the benefit of having good relationships with carriers and, you know, they all, you know, they might not carry, like, the foldable, but otherwise, like, the Pixel 10 is on, like, every carrier. Like, you can go buy it from not just the big three, obviously, but, like, most MVNOs now have like a pixel phone you can pick up. And I think that is also a big thing for Google's success in this sphere. I think, yeah, Gemini as well on those stands is huge. I think people are going to tie Gemini and Pixel together quite tightly.

But yeah, no, I think we've sort of answered your question after. I don't know. What do you think? Do you genuinely think it's the same sort of thing? Or do you think Google definitely has a figure in mind for hardware? They must have something, right? They must have, I don't know, 20 million, 50 million units a year. In an ideal world, they're in it for the prestige.

But I don't know, like 10 years in, I feel like there is an expectation of them hitting market success, monetary success every year. So I guess I feel like as it mature as naturally as the pixel brand matures, that they do want to hit numbers. Yeah, Pixel is the A24 of SmartFun. Samsung is like a big blockbuster studio and Google is over here making indie movies to win Oscars. I mean, yeah, 100%, I agree with that as well. I think it makes sense.

Like, look at the, the Plaudits that the Pixel lineup gets. I mean, obviously, you only need to speak to anyone who's in technology that they use a pixel and it's almost seemingly the de facto Android experience, even though Samsung is so intrinsically linked to it. I think, yeah, it's definitely, it's strange, right? If Plaudits sold devices and Google would be probably one of the biggest selling devices on the planet, like with their pixel lineup, but it just doesn't seem to work like that.

But yeah, I'd be fascinated. It would be amazing to speak to someone about what their perception of success is with the pixel lineup. I guess it changes every year, right? Yeah. I mean, yeah, but let's get into something that I think, I mean, back in the back of the everyone's looking at this. The iPhone 17 launched, what, 48 hours ago now?

The dust is set it a little bit. There was quite a few phones in the lineup, brand new air device, which, I mean, we'll talk about that in the moment, but I think our base model really, really stands out straight away. To me, the value for money factor is fantastic. Let's be completely honest. Yeah, I think we all thought there's going to be a price increase. And no, like pixel.

this here there's no price increase and as though you're saying they finally this picks the iPhone 17 finally addresses some at least to me long time complaints like not having an always on display on every model I think that was a bare minimum

that they should have always hit to compete with Android I think 120 hertz is the rest of a big thing but yeah the iPhone 17 is very competitive and just looking at it against this year's pixel,

where do we think it stands? I think it is confirmed a big mistake on Google's part to not have bumped to 256 gigabytes across the board because like not only is the iPhone 17 not, it did not get a price hike. You could argue it got a price decrease because if you wanted a 256 gigabyte iPhone 16, you were paying $900, you were not paying $800.

So you are getting more storage space. You are getting the same display that's on the iPhone 17 Pro. It's like the same panel. Is it the same panel? I believe I saw it was confirmed that it's the same 6.3 inch panel. So it's gonna, like, not that the 16 didn't had, it was a good screen, but obviously it was 60 Hertz and it was, it didn't have an always on display. So like, it wasn't a bad, I wouldn't call it a bad panel. I would call it a dated panel probably, aside from its like brightness rating.

And yeah, I don't know, man. Yeah, I don't know, man. Like, I, I, it's, it's tricky to compare this to, like, the, the pixel 10. Obviously, you don't have, like, a telephoto, a true telephoto lens, like, at all on this. I don't care how many times Apple says the word, like, optical grade or whatever they refer to a 2x crop as. But, like, aside from the camera hardware, like, if you are, if you are operating system agnostic, which nobody is, but if you are, it's a good deal. Like I don't think there's any other way to say it. And I think it does kind of show Google probably should have should have upgraded the storage off the bat.

Now, Google is also the pixel is always on sale. So it doesn't, you know, in three months, it's not really going to matter. You can probably, you'll probably be able to pick up the 256 gigabyte pixel 10 for $800 pretty regularly. But yeah, I mean, just looking at MSRP pricing. Like I think the iPhone 17 is like by far the, the most. appealing of the devices Apple announced this week. Yeah, I think it's strange that we, I mean, we talked about sales figures momentarily. I know that a few years ago, the iPhone 15 for a couple of years in a row was the biggest selling

individual device on the planet, which kind of shows that people don't always go for the pro model, even though we assume that that seems to be the case. I think, I mean, a strong Apple is good for Android, I think personally. I think having Apple firing on all cylinders and this is the base model specifically is Apple firing on all cylinders apart from obviously that personally I would have a telephoto on a base on even a base model I want a telephoto

but yeah it's really really hard to argue with this that Google with their base model pixel 10 without any sort of storage upgrade is facing a little bit of a nupil battle I mean we mentioned carrier stores a moment ago if you're going to go into a carrier store or a phone shop or anywhere where there's devices on display

and you see the 17 and yeah you might not know about specifications I think you're definitely going to see that there's something different between these two devices I know performance, if you get the opportunity to play around with it, you're going to see a big performance difference as well which and Apple is not shy of doing that now

I think if you go into the Apple store they have lots of preloaded applications that really showcase how fast their devices, smooth their devices are Google probably needs to look at this and be like, okay, we're going to use this as a learning experiment now. And the next few generations probably make some key changes to their base model. Even though a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about that base model, well, 256 gig version, looks like a really good product for the price. It's amazing how quickly opinion can change.

And I agree that specs don't matter. And I don't know how many people are really comparing these two. There will be people who do, but I don't think the bulk of people will. But there is like, it is just losing out on the fact that if you walk into a carrier store, which again, really does matter in the US, even in 2025, like the carrier rep is going to tell people that the iPhone 17 base model has doubled the space of the pixel 10. And that is actually almost like a more, that's a harsher word double than doing using the actual numbers.

Because you were literally like, oh, so if I pay $800 for this, I can keep double the photos on it. that is big for people. Like, people do care about that. And so, um, I don't know. Like I, I, I, I just, it's a bit of a whiff on, on Google's part. And considering how cheap storage pricing is these days, like even, even with inflation and everything, like, man, it just really sucks that Google did not just take this opportunity to, to bump space. Because like, I, I think if you eliminated that difference, I think we could pretty much, we could argue the pixel 10, you know, with its camera setup is, is superior. Or at the very least, you know, has, you know, has. similar pros and cons, but like, that storage thing is just a bummer and it is going to matter. Yeah, I think, I think, this is the phone for the people who are wanting an upgrade for a little while. It's for my dad. It's, my dad is an iPhone 12. This is what I'm going to buy my dad, the base model iPhone 17, and he's going to go from a 64

gigabyte iPhone 12 to a 256 gigabyte iPhone 17 with a significantly, better screen and better cameras and like he will be like, wow, this is a big jump and and that'll be that. I do wonder, I mean, I do wonder what the reception will be because I know that there's a lot of people who've been criticising the pro se the pro tier for its design changes. Let's go to the pro se for a moment because, hey, we can't deny that there's certain things that Apple has seen and clearly there's a little bit of pixel camera bar in there. There's definitely some DNA in there somehow.

I mean, they're not that far apart, are they in California? So I do wonder how their design principles have changed as a result of seeing Google do some pretty impressive things with their own hardware. Like, I don't know, what do you think when you've seen it first-hand? I was kind of like indifferent. It looks better than I thought would from lenders. There's a utilitarianness to it that it is.

I don't know, it's a utilitarianist to it that I thought some people would, give them products for not doing form over function this seems like a very functional design the prat this plateau putting

like the antenna lines on the plateau not making the entire back glass so it's more durable whether it is you in the body metal construction yeah it's more function over four

than usual from Apple. And I agree that it's a stark departure. And I feel like it's a bit rough in the way that like the Apple Watch Ultra is like, I feel like it's in that vein of whatever that design they're going for. But it looks better than I thought it would be from all these renders and case renders and whatnot. Yeah, no, I feel this feels like Apple's, Apple's Android. moment. Does that make sense? Like all of the things that we kind of see on Android have kind of shoved in together and then Apple's put their own twist on it. There's definitely a lot of like,

I mean, I don't know if you guys have seen the Poco series of late. There's a lot of Pocco in there. There's a little bit, I think, of pixel. We should ordinarily feel, this feels so weird to see this from Apple. I don't know. Maybe they have. And then they've made changes to the hardware as well. Like they've moved away from titanium. I'm guessing that was a heat-related thing. So that means technically the most premium device on the market is the S25 Ultra If we're looking at pure materials, right? That genuinely means that it is as far as I'm concerned I felt like I was losing look I I I am a sucker I'm a sucker for an aluminum unibody I think because I loved the HTC 1 M7 and and I yeah So much and it just it does like this does remind me of it even if the design is obviously very different

But there's something about seeing that like aluminum metal shell especially if you look at the like in construction instruction version where you're like, well, man, that reminds me of the HTC I once loved. And at the same time, I'm like, I sat through a year of titanium at, of just getting the word titanium yelled at me, and then for Apple to just be like, I don't know what you guys, I don't know what titanium is. I forgot about this. We're, we're using aluminum. I don't, I don't know what you're talking about.

I also really quickly, the camera bar designed on this doesn't, eliminate the like it's still going to wobble on a table they like screwed it up that's like the whole but like the lens is still protrude on the left side so like they they still kind of screwed it up where like it's not going to be terrible it will probably be better than the the iPhone 16 pro was but like I'm looking at it and I'm like why didn't you guys just go all the way and make it flush like it's it's if you're already doing this elevated piece of metal it's again it's function over form. Yeah. It's these camera, they, that's actually quite revealing to see how much they prioritize, like having the most powerful camera system available instead of like, uh, growing, I don't

know, the lesser system that's small or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's a camera device. It's, it is, and it is for most people. It is their camera. So. And they focus really heavily on it. And like, like, you know, they really focused on the video side of it, which makes sense because you have stuff like, you know, um, 28 years later shot on an iPhone, right? Like, there's lots of movies now that are actually shot on iPhone. It's not just like quiet little like indie productions on $20 anymore. So I get why they do that, but, but yeah. I do wonder, um, some of the design choices I'm about a bit kind of confused by. I know you mentioned it's full, it's all aluminum. I'm going to call it aluminium because that's his, uh, chemical name. And it was in the keynote. Yeah, so basically, I think that the separation, the weird, what's the little section that looks like there's a MagSafe battery pack pre-attached? Like, what's that about? What's that basically just for the charging option?

Yeah, there's a lot out there. Yeah, okay, so that was me misinterpreting things. Yeah, so they've done a unibody chassis, but at the same time they've still kept a little bit of that glass sandwich style there. Is that a throwback? So I'm guessing that's that point. like what Google had to do with you, the pixel 5 to do the...

So the... Yeah, but they could have used biore resin, like a real company. That would have been a better way doing it, right? Yeah, I'm kind of confused. It doesn't feel like... This does not feel like an Apple device. This feels like someone's made an AI render of an iPhone. It does look like those like fake,

or you'd see like, like, oh man, check out this Xbox 720. Yes, that's literally what I was thinking. Yeah, this is, so this is the iPhone 720. it, yeah, it feels a little bit weird and then you throw in liquid glass on top. I'm like, what are those guys smoking over there at this point in time? It's almost like they've just thrown

out everything that Apple I've always known for, like really tight, hard. I mean, it probably will be great when he's in person. And hey, for my sins, because I don't want to do this, I've pre-pre-ordered the white model of the pro, Pro Max, so that I can effectively see how it stacks up against the best of Android

in the next 12 months or so. But rightly or wrongly, there's going to be a lot of other Android OEMs out there that look at this and then like, right, how can we take this and put our own spin on it? I don't think they're going to need to because, like I say, these designs are all, yeah, it's like an e-fit of all Android phones over the last 10 years. I'm sure it looks, like I say, I'm sure it looks better in person, but even the camera, sorry, the camera, the microphone cut out at the top is like you see on the pixel. So there's so many little things here that I'm finding really, really weird about Apple and where the design has kind of evolved over the last few years. I don't know. What do you think in terms of the colours as well?

Because they've cut down on colour options. This is not what Apple usually does. They usually do like five, is it, on their proteo? Yeah, I think it's four. I've done three this time. It's four. Three or four, yeah. But the one fun option is really bold.

This is orange, whatever it's called. Um, Cosmic orange. I don't know what makes it cosmic, but that's what it's called. It does look unapplery. This shade of orange is a very bold orange. I mean,

I don't hate the colors. I guess the difference from last year is that, obviously, besides the orange is that there's no black, which is fine, in my opinion. But I, I don't know.

I kind of, the orange is kind of grown on me in a way I didn't expect it to, but I also don't, I don't know if I would buy it. This strikes me as a color. People are like, for two months. I think it's going to sell like crazy,

but this strikes me as a color I personally would be like really enthused about for two months and then be like, okay, I wish this was a little like something else. More subtle. Yeah, it can be vibrant, but like,

I don't know. I shouldn't complain. I'm very happy to see a company doing a, a colorful, bold choice on a top tier pro phone. And I, if nothing else, I hope this problem,

companies to follow suit because I am you know the jade pixel 10 pro is very nice if a little subtle it's kind of just mint in the in most lighting but um it's uh you know I I like the fact that they're going there and I I hope uh Samsung and Google and others like follow suit on making and and we've seen Motorola and to a lesser extent one plus do it so like the the the movement's there but we just need to get everybody on board for for sharper bolder colors. I mean, it feels, it definitely feels like the Google.

I'm calling it Google. I don't know why I'm calling Google. The design is reminded me of so many Google and Android devices. I feel like with the pro tier, they're not, this isn't Apple firing on all cylinders. This is Apple kind of like,

do you think it is? I don't think it is. I think that the base model is literally them doing the most. I think this is more, I mean, because when you start to look at it and really, really delving down. Architecture for the next five years or whatever.

I do think, It's a pro phone in that they give up the design. Again, it comes back, this is so much more function over form. Like, this design is so utilitarian that I could see how they made it to allow for more premium, for more pro, for more hardware in general, and at the expense of something that looks very strange right now. But I don't know. I think this is their most utilitarian.

and iPhone to date and I think we'll eventually see how that plays out as the design and shows. Yeah, maybe. You've kind of taught me around a little bit. I do think in terms of the internals and stuff like that, I don't think there is major changes here. There is no major, major changes that are like groundbreaking.

No. It doesn't seem like much of a huge upgrade over the... Is it 16? Yeah, 16 Pro Max. But at the same time, like you said, the hardware is very, I guess we'll call it fresh. I guess that seems fair. But in terms of fresh, brand new devices, brand new to the lineup,

Apple also introduced their Air, iPhone Air, which is, I mean, personally I think this is a concept. They're running this ahead of potentially a foldable. Yeah, I agree. And I test the waters, prove it. I mean, I don't know, I don't know where I stand on this. I think from an engineering perspective,

I love it from a, would I buy this and use this? I'm less enthused. I, man, I made a joke when they, I was talking to Ben Shown, and I made a joke during the event when they were talking about all day battery life. And I was like, yeah, it's going to have a bunch of asterisks next to it. The asteris is going to be like, are going to be like,

you know, with the screen off. And then a second asterisk is like, if the screen's on the battery is not great. And then the third asterisk is like, you can, you should probably buy a battery pack. Um, and then the fourth estrus is like battery packs holds up really. And then genuinely five minutes later, they were like, and we made a new battery back for it. And I was like, wow, I called it. I totally called that they were going to be like, we've made a new battery pack for it. Um, look, it's, it's, I agree with you.

I don't think it's a fully like concept device maybe. Like, I do think that they are trying. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's a, it's two things. It is the foldable thing where they are working on something internally in terms of foldables. And so they are working on squeezing these components down to this size so they can therefore, you know, sell a phone of this size while they continue to work towards the eventuality of an iPhone, of a foldable iPhone, which I maintain, will believe it when I see it. I'm sure they're working on it.

I don't know if they'll launch it. The other thing I think is that they have really struggled to figure out what this fourth, iPhone pillar is, right? Like the iPhone pro, the iPhone, you know, pro series sells well. The Pro Max series sells well. The base model sells great. And the fourth pillar, they've tried the mini. It didn't sell well. They tried the plus.

It also didn't sell well. So I think this is mostly just them being like, well, we are working on this. Yeah. So that's a good point. That third pillar. The thing is, on paper, the plus was a very competitive phone. I agree. But I think, nobody wanted it.

Because the upsell for the Pro Max was so effective. Yeah. That's, I think they were so good at cannibalizing that large phone to the pro model. So to what Damien was saying, this is a concept phone. Full disclosure, this is the one I'm buying. But I haven't bought an iPhone in four years. So it's, I'm on 13 Mini and I'm going to be air. And if you're going to use.

use it as a, it's not going to be your daily driver, Abner. So if you're going to use it as like the iPhone you use when you need an iPhone, I think this is like a fun one to buy compared to like, oh, this is my device for the next four years, you know. Yeah. Yeah. If it were for the next four years, I'd be getting the base iPhone, which I think is the nicest working iPhone. I feel like this vindicates a little bit what Samsung had done with the edge. No. Like, no, no, no. Do you know, think it does? I think with the edge looks, I think, is the edge thinner? How many? The edge is a little thicker but a little lighter

and has a larger display and I think and I have not used it or even held it but I think it has two speakers so that's got one more than the iPhone. I was going to buy an edge. I was going to buy an edge outright but then the first reviews came in and they're like

why would you buy this? So that's what I was ready to buy it. So I'm putting money where my mouth is. So these slim phones I'm very interested in it. So concept phone. I don't think this is a concept phone.

I see this more as a luxury, as a jewelry option in the lineup. Yeah. That it's, it's, you, you want the futuristic thing. And I'm glad that people are pushing this. This, like something that's futuristic, that isn't the pro, that isn't the, you want all of it,

because I've, never been interested in buying a pro, well, except for the always on display, but now that's solved. So I think there is a place for this phone, and in the way that Apple does, it was going to popularize and make other people make it. With the Samsung, with the S-25 edge, I feel like that fits into the Samsung's most, let's say, unideal tendencies of seeing where the markets, of seeing where others are going and getting there first, which is not to say that isn't an engineering feat, but I feel like the reviews are proven that it was not a competitive device.

And if they were generally doing that before they heard rumors of the iPhone, I will applaud them, but I feel that phone is absolutely the result of rumors that Apple was doing this. And Samsung thinking that we can also do this, which, to their credit, they can. they have the engineering effort. The engineering know how to do that. But I'm very curious how apples take, how apples even larger take, will drive the market to, I don't know.

I just think that a slim phone is exciting. It's like I use the Moto Z, the first one, very thin. Yeah, and that was... Even thinner than this is 5.2. Even thin of this. Yeah. One camera, the camera is shit. though, but yeah, I do. Do you think, do you think people are going to be highly critical of this

in the same way that they're going to be critical of Samsung? No. Because I'm very, like, I do, I do get wary sometimes of the way that people talk about Apple products in general. I think this phone is kind of review proof because of exactly, I think Abner said it. I'm sorry if you said it, Davy, and I'm mixing up who said it. But I think selling this as a status symbol above all else is, is the, is the decision that Apple has made here that I think is going to make this like at least a relative success compared to the mini and the plus models before it compared to like I think Samsung really screwed up by like and they do this for everything but by being like well we kind of have one design that we stick to and ensure we tweak it a little bit between generations right but

like if you look at the you know you look at the edge from the back and it just looks like any other Samsung phone except it's missing a third lens and And I'm, you know, you look at the air. It, it does not look like any other iPhone name ever shipped. And I, I do think there is something to like, you know, you scroll through the like very well designed website for this thing. And it just like, they're really aiming for this to feel like, oh, it's, it's, it's the iPhone you love. But in this like super fancy premium shell that all of your friends are going to be jealous of. And sure, you'll have to carry a battery pack around.

But don't worry about that because you're, you're going to be so excited about how thin your phone is. And I don't think, and I think that's why you're exactly right, Abner, that the S-25 Edge was just a response to the, God, I guess like almost two full years of rumors about the iPhone error, that like they put this together. And it's not like it's an unusable phone, but it clearly does not have the same amount of like, I don't know, I almost want to say passion,

but I'm not sure that's the one living for. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does feel like Apple is excited about the iPhone error in a way that Samsung did not feel excited about the S-25 Edge. Because like if they, Sam, the thing that Samsung should have solely concentrated on is the fold. Yeah. The flip, sorry, the flip.

That is their differentiator. They should have put so much more engineering efforts in the past three or four generations, and that should have been their competitor to this iPhone there. I agree. And to what we were saying about when you were talking about Switch, I think people want something different. And I think outside of foldables, I think going thin is something worth pursuing, something

seat, something take something of a road worth exploring because I'm not sure if we've all used the latest generation iPad Pro. But there is a futurism to that, that you're holding a piece of glass in terms of how thin it is, five point something millimeters. I think somebody should be doing that it makes it feel like the technology is gone away. I think that is something I'm personally that I want to see in terms of like having futureistic technology. I think in general, I think the market is better for it to push those advances, to push like in the quest to make it ever thinner. Like don't compromise on battery life.

But if this is what allows for more battery innovations or whatever, I think that's a very exciting place to take it for technology. That's a really, really good point, Abner. And it made me, like, if you think about Apple's previous attempts, again, the mini was just what you were already using, but smaller, the plus was what you were already using, but bigger. This will feel different when you pick it up from the moment. It's like, it's like I spent, spent like 15 grand getting my roof replaced almost two years ago.

Nobody has ever complimented my roof, right? I'm happy it's new. It won't leak for 30 years, right? But like nobody ever, that is a pure investment in the foundation of a house as opposed to like, if I got my kitchen remodeled, anybody who has been to my house before would come over and be like, oh my God, that's a new kitchen, right? And like, I feel like the same applies here where it's like, okay, we've tried just like offering different sizes of iPhone and they all look basically the same. And so why would anybody just pay more for a thing that they can just get the base model of or they can go all the way up to the pro?

This is its own separate thing that is going to attract a subset of buyers who don't really care about the cameras on the pro and maybe want something fancier than the base model. And so I think it'll be a success. Even if it's not quite up to, you know, it's not the best selling iPhone ever, I think it will be a success. Yeah, I think, I mean, the upside is there's definitely some Nexus vibes there as well. So if you're someone out there who has a passing interest in old, I guess, precursors to the pixel, you can relive that Nexus 6p vibes. I was going to say, this thing looks so much like the Nexus 6P.

It's nuts. It's nuts. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy. So, hey, I think it all comes back to Apple. Definitely paying attention to what Google are doing, no matter what happens. But yeah, I think it's been a very, very Apple-centric episode.

And I just want to say, I'm still really happy with my Pixel 10. I don't know if you have any updates from like your experiences over the last few weeks. I know we said in the previous episode that we were going to touch on it. I just want to say, I went recently to Germany for a couple of days. I maimed my pixel 10 proxel, which is my main device at the minute. I've been between that and my retail 10 Pro. Battery's been pretty solid. I mean, I hate screen on time as a metric,

but I probably get on a good day, seven hours, seven and a half hours, which I think for me is very, very good. I think it goes back to something that we said about how we thought that the tensor was, this 10 to G5, TSM was going to be the end or be all. But they've put that work into AI stuff and not the battery. And it's, I think it's the AI is the saving point, so they can prioritize what they want to prioritize.

But battery is fine. It's fine. You're not going to, like, it's, and it's not fine. Fine has changed over time, right? Yeah, true. What was fine in 2020 is not fine now. Like, like, if this phone had come out five years ago, I think we'd be like, battery was pretty good. But like, the standard continues to raise.

And I would say that Google has always been a little bit behind whatever the standard is. not again not bad just totally fine I'm curious to know how you guys feel about the camera my I sort of walked away being like I've gotten I've gotten some really good shots with it and like I'm not surprised and as always it is so reliable more than anything

it is it is I it's very rare I get a full on bad shot but I continue to be like I wish the color science was a little popier or that they just allowed me to have a little more control over it. You know, I woke up pretty early yesterday morning and the sky was just beautiful with the sunrise. And I like took a photo of it and and not only did the pixel capture the reflection in my window more than I expected it to because I also took

a photo with my iPhone 16 and it did not get my reflection. So, but the, it completely washed out the orange of the sky. And I was really kind of bummed with it. And, Again, it's not every photo. I went to Niagara Falls a couple weeks ago, and I got some, like, really incredible photos of, like, a rainbow over the falls. But, you know, I just wish I had a little more control over how that final image looks

without having to go, like, edit it. I don't want to edit, like, 20% of my photos. I wanted to set it and forget it, which is how the iPhone works. And I truly kind of wish they would steal... Yeah, photographic styles. Yeah. have surprisingly,

they're built in filters. Basically, yeah. We're in, what, two or three generations of that for the iPhone. I feel that makes that way over at this point. I don't know. It's a smart feature. I think it's really poorly implemented

in kind of confusing to use on iOS, and I think Google would do a better job with it. Yeah, that little trackpad thing that you use. It does not explain itself well at all on the iPhone in a way that like, I think Google can make it. They need to call it filters. It's what it is. Yeah.

But we put a contrast filter on everything. That's really when I like contrasty photos. If there was an option to just like up the contrast on every image I take, I think I would probably leave it on. I feel like you're probably getting a deeper, deeper thing. And maybe in future we'll devon system to a full length podcast. I think what has happened in the last few years with a lot of camera systems is they're becoming more clinical.

So the photos kind of all look a bit too... And I think this... Yeah, I think sometimes photography is very much like you capture a feeling as opposed to just the moment. I think you can do both at the same time. Like you said, well, you're capturing a sunrise and a sunrise will evoke certain things in your memory and also your experience of that sunrise.

I think as much as I love the pixel camera experience and I don't think... I think it is the best for me. Yeah. I love it, like ardently. It's so down, like you said, reliable. It's just all I want is reliability. I think we could definitely do with some options to tone down that clinicalness of it.

It definitely feels like almost, it's like taking a scalpel to an image as opposed to having something with a, yeah, you can have a leave a little bit of acerline on the lens. It doesn't have to be sharp in everything. Give me some personality, you know? Yeah, I feel like that. And to be clear, the iPhone's image, because I said I took the same photo with my iPhone, the oranges were, were, I would say, too deep. It was, it was much more, it appeared much more orangey than the sky was in reality. But I think, I think it expresses, you know, now that it's been 36 hours or whatever, it expresses how, how the sky looked in my mind, in my memory more than the pixels

photo does. And at the end of the day, if I have to pick between a little too saturated and not saturated enough. I think I'll take too saturated. I'm totally open for disagreements on that, but I think that's, that was what spurred me to take the photo in the first place was that it looked so pretty and so bold and vibrant and that's not there in the pixels image. Yeah, I think HDR has one of those, HDR has a lot to answer for, I think personally, but so far, so good. We'll revisit this. I think we we should do, we should do this every couple of, we'll definitely do this a little bit more regularly because I think we tried to do it. I'm really liking it overall, to be clear.

Yeah, I think we should 100% revisit things every now and again. If anyone has any questions, by all means, drop that in a comment or email us. I'll leave my email in the show notes. Will we'll do that for me because he's a nice guy like that. I'll take the abuse. I'll take the abuse. But yeah, if you have any specific questions about how we're getting on with the Pixel 10, you might be not ready for an upgrade yet.

So, and you might want to know things ahead of time and all waiting for a price drop. We can answer as many questions as extremely possible. But yeah, I just want to say thanks guys for joining me. It's always fascinating seeing what's going on on the other side of the fence. And while it has been an Apple heavy episode, I think, like I say, having a really strong competitor to the biggest mobile platform out there, which is still technically Android, is always going to be good. And we can learn from, well, manufacturers can learn from Apple's mistakes.

Google gets a little bit of a lesson with their base model. I think in reality, as annoyed as it can be, we can be potentially, every day is a learning day and it's always going to make for better products late on the line but yeah, thanks for joining me guys this has been episode 69 so we're getting ever close to that 100

we may have a little bit of a, I think we should have a party on the 100th episode but should. We are well. Yeah, awesome. Right, thanks, jents and I'll speak to you soon. Bye. Bye.