Pixelated - Android's Past, Present, and Future

Episode Date: July 31, 2026

Welcome to Pixelated episode 110. This week, Damien, Abner, and Will lean into a news lull ahead of the Pixel 11's launch to zoom out to take a look at the state of Android. They tackle what Google and others are doing right, what there's room to improve on, and and what we can expect from the future of our favorite platform. Enjoy the episode? You can listen to our brand new weekly members-only Pixelated Pro bonus episode by signing up for 9to5Google Pro! Sponsored by Proton Unlimited: Pixelated listeners can save 30% on an annual subscription to the company’s suite of privacy-friendly services by signing up using our link. Thanks to Proton Unlimited for sponsoring the podcast. Subscribe YouTube Podcasts Pocket Casts Spotify Amazon Music Apple Podcasts Overcast

Welcome to Pixelated episode 110. I'm your host, Will Saddlebird. With a break in the news ahead of the Pixel 11 launch, we're zooming out to take a look at the state of Android. From hardware to software to camera quality and even smart classes, it's an interesting time for our favorite operating system slash ecosystem. And myself, Damien and Abner all have some big picture thoughts. It all starts right after this message from our sponsor, Proton.

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I think, well, first of foremost, it's summer. So we're in this like pre-release season. We're waiting for pre-releases. But I don't know. I kind of wanted to talk a little bit about we were kind of percolating ideas and stuff. And I feel like Android in general is in a really weird spot. I don't necessarily think truly negatively.

But I guess we've lost a few players. We have this really weird situation where Google's making ground while everyone else seems to be faltering. I don't know. I'd love to know what you guys are thinking, the state of Android. Let's call it the state of Android. And this is a bit of an address to kind of get us talking about this. Let's get our juices flowing.

There's some cool products out there. But I don't know. Maybe are we in the minority? talking positively about this? I'm not sure. Well, I think this is a good point to talk about it. Like, I think right before Pixel is like a good point to kind of examine it because I do think

the state of Android is in flux at the moment. And I don't think it is completely it's no single player's fault, right? I think it is largely economic trends that are impacting you know, on the hardware side for sure.

Like I feel like a lot of the, you know, not that we weren't already in a stag. native market, but I think a lot of the stagnation we're feeling this year in particular where it does feel like nearly every new release is like kind of just reheated from last year, if not from 2024. You know, it makes, it has been accelerated just because of like, I think the RAM crunch, I think companies saw this coming. I also think that to a certain extent with, with the, you know, maybe a fold eight shaped

exception. We have sort of hit this like, we, we have been on, we, we have gone beyond peak smartphone. And we have gone into like, I've said this before, but it really is, it's like, every washing machine you're going to look at at Home Depot is like essentially the same. And that's, that's where we're at with phones. Like, it might be slightly different from the one next to it, but you are getting a tall phone with somewhere between two and three cameras. Let's average it. Two point five cameras. the back a front facing camera, stereo speakers, like, the hardware is so good at its, like, there is no bad piece of hardware unless you're really shopping in like the, you know,

soon to be gone $200 range that I think it can be really easy for people to just like, kind of, I don't know, it's not exciting, right? Like, it's not exciting. And then on the software side, I think how you feel about Android as an operating system is going to come down to how you feel about Gemini at this point. Like they are so intrinsically linked. I do wonder, you mentioned that $200 range. I'm surprised we haven't seen like a bit of resurgence of, and I don't want to say reheated, but kind of like reoriented. I'll use marketing speak for the people out there is they reorient these phones that maybe use older hardware. And I mean, I mean, me and you will.

We love gaming handheld. We love our like retro pockets, Amber Nick, you know, AYN4, whatever you want to call, whatever you want to point out. A lot of those devices kind of use all the hardware to overcome some of the shortcomings that they potentially have had. I am so surprised we haven't seen more companies try and do this. And I thought Samsung might use old,

maybe some of those slightly older Quarcom chips that still supported and try and reheat them into a new device. Like the, I mean, let's take, for example, the mid-range of the market. the A series of pixel has always felt like a really good spot to be and now it feels like there are going to be devices that are target in that range with way lesser specifications and people will criticize the A series for I don't know it feels really at odds with where progress has been in Android

for the past decade maybe decade 15 years I think this is just a mature market it's I think we've said this before what laptops is the best equivalent I don't necessarily think that this is endemic of everything. I just think this is how the steady state of technology barring any major hardware innovations, be it batteries or cameras or anything like that. I think this is just a natural endpoint of this form factor. And it was absolutely nice

when we had innovation every single year. But that hardware is hard. Hardware is very mature. And until anything happens, that's the state of phone hardware. Yeah. I mean, what's left to ask for to a certain extent? You know, that is a fantastic question.

From enthusiasts, like, what do you, like, Unless you're asking for things that were removed, right? Like, if you're like, bring back the headphone jack, which, like, I'm happy you're fighting that battle out there if you're, if that's you. But, like, it's obviously not going to happen. So, like, if you're living in the world of realism. And I also, I also think most people just don't really, they truly have moved me on the headphone jack. I think it's been a decade and you can feel it.

Has it been a decade? Has it been a decade since we started seeing phones remove that? That's crazy. Oh, yeah. I believe the, no, it must be. It feels like three years ago. Because the pixel, the launch pixel, they make the whole big point on stage of like, we have a headphone jack because Apple had just removed it.

And then a year later with the pixel too, they removed the headphone jack. And everybody's like, Google, you like advertised on this like 11 months ago. So yeah, no, this is the 10 year anniversary of like AirPods and the removal of the like. And I got to be honest. Like I really feel like, you know, for the most part, unless you're really going out of your way to like lean into the the like counterculture aspect of using like older tech like most people have adopted wireless headphones. I think the I think the benefits clearly outweigh the cons with those and like people grabbed onto them. So a tangent. But you know like outside of that

like what you know the the main pixel 11 leak has been like is the it's the notification LED back? Like that's where we're at. Like it's just kind of like. What if we, what can we recycle from, from 20 years ago that, like, maybe we can find new ways to use in the AI era. But largely speaking, I think these phones are like, all you'd be doing is asking for thinner or longer battery life or, or, you know, I don't think anybody is still asking for larger screens. But you get it. Like, there's no obvious, like, I hope my next phone does blank. I think, I think maybe happens in agreement with me here is that sometimes I think, I think, when you try and stay on the,

I guess the precipice or the, in air quotes, bleeding edge, which isn't changing that drastically now, when you get something like an A-series phone or something a little bit cheaper, it kind of puts into perspective what you actually value in the phone. Like, maybe you don't need the best of this or the best of that. And I understand

as a consumer, it makes sense to buy the best that's available to you within your budget. And I would always say to people if they're looking for an Android phone specifically, buy the best one that you can buy. But I do think sometimes it's quite refreshing to have something that doesn't necessarily play by the same rules and maximizes what it has,

maximizes within its limitations. I wonder if that's stifled a little bit. I don't know. Like, you're still using the Pixel 10A, Abner, right? Currently. I move to the 10 pro, like a month out before the event, but that's purely just for work reasons. If I had my choice, I'd definitely still be on the 10A.

Yeah, I do find it weird. maybe this is like the apathy towards it is the fact that you you you kind of said it a little bit at will was that we haven't necessarily seen major changes and we've we've kind of been fighting a battle of make this tiny thing better this tiny complaint that enthusiasts have like I would love to like I don't know if you do you guys do this very often is when you see people out in the public and you kind of like trying to judge in your brain of like why would they use that phone specifically like when I see someone with the fold I'm like why would they choose a fold specifically because I'm still in my brain

apart from the full date is kind of convinced me that that's the form factor that should have won out it's crazy but yeah I'm looking at it maybe we are at the point where the platform's so mature

that we want everything to be perfect and that's just that's the kind of how capitalism works it can't ever be perfect everything I mean we've also they're commodities now to the point where it's like I mean Abner you're saying you know if not for this job

and for the launch coming up, like you would still be on the 10A. Like, you know, I think I spoke recently about like thinking about rising phone costs and my dad who was an iPhone user like thinking he was on an iPhone 12 and I'm like, I have to,

we have to do this before. The rumor is that the iPhone 18 is launching next year and not in the fall, but like I think they're going to raise prices on everything regardless in September. So it's like I have to get him on something. He's having issues of his phone. He only asked me to upgrade his device when it's really bad and he had asked me. And like, I was going to,

I was like just going to do like, okay, here's the iPhone 17. And then like truly, and not to talk too much about that side of the fence, but it's a very similar story with the pixel 10 and the 10A, I think. I looked down the list and I was like, there is nothing here on the 17 that my dad cares about that isn't on the 17E. He's not going to care about the ultra wide camera. He's not going to care about the faster refresher. If I tried to describe to my dad the different. between 60 and 120 hertz. He would be like, I don't really understand why I need to care about that. Why am I paying $200 more for that?

Like, I went down the list and it was like, oh, like, phones really have hit the point where it's like, if you're just like an average user, like, you really can spring for the mid-range option and like be fine because I really don't think, you know, some of the telephoto lenses out there are impressive, but are they worth double more than double what, you know, the other device you could buy that would otherwise give you the experience? are looking for? No, of course not. Speaking of the camera, so I think that would be, I wouldn't be that, say that it's an exception,

but I think that's the thing that people come to care about, especially as their primary camera. Well, but that said, I kind of do wonder if that the camera, too, is at its good enough point. Right. What do you think about that? I know what? I, sorry Will, I will take this one because I am the camera nerd here.

I think that we kind of hit a point. And I think we discussed it. We discussed it in the early, really, really early, early episodes of pixelated abner. I think we're talking about the 8A. I think we were talking about how like from that period of, when you have a point and shoot camera in your pocket, you just want it to just do the, the bare minimum would be a good photo,

but you want a photo that you remember. and I think considering smart displays, I know I'm going on a little bit of a tangent here, but I will loop it back, it will make sense. With smart displays, I found that I don't take photos and never see them anymore. On my first wave of smartphones, I mean, by today's standards,

the cameras are bloody terrible, but you take a picture and you would have to seek it out to go see it. If you have a smart display, you take a picture and you see it, and the flaws, I think, are less important. And to tie into your point, they have been good enough for a long time.

I think the optimizations that a lot of these camera makers have, I mean, a lot of them kind of stole that HDR bracket in from Google at the top end. When Pixel came out, it was so revolutionary in that respect and the computational side of things. Everyone's kind of caught up. A lot of the photos kind of look the same,

and it's all about consistency. There's photos I've taken with the Pixel 3 that I sometimes regularly see on my pixel tablet in front of me and my smart display. Nest Hub, I couldn't even remember the name of it, in my living room. And I, the first thing I think is not necessarily how bad the edges are of detection for portrait mode. It's just, that was a phenomenal photo.

I took it at the time I took it. So, yeah, I agree. I do kind of think that cameras have been good enough for a really, really long time now. And I think it's just kind of a case of what your visual elements that you like. Yeah, personally, when I look at my camera or what I use for wallpaper specifically that, I see photos that I took with the pixel 7, pixel 8, and I'm fine with it. I'm more than fine, actually.

I'm happy with it. It still looks great to this day. And I do, I would say that people are, that we've, like Damon you're saying, we've reached that good enough point. But, I don't know, I think what brought me on to this topic is like, you see the resurgence. of disposable cameras of porloids

that well they have been for a few years but how much do people we really care about that image quality I think they like the look don't they people like a specific look I mean I know we I'm gonna do you think more than look I'd say they like the tangibleness of it

I mean printer photo printers for smartphones absolutely exist I have one I highly recommend one from Xiaomi if you get the opportunity to get one, it's amazing to have, like you say, a tangible photo that you've taken.

It is crazy. It kind of like, it kind of rewires your brain to be like, ah, I could print that. I could put that on the wall. Like,

it is really, really cool to have that because it feels, I feel like, photography is like a holistic experience and smartphone photography. You don't necessarily have that because you go bang,

bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, take 50 photos. And we did it when we were at MWC, didn't we have no way. We were kind of like, we took our time,

took some cool photos, saw some really cool stuff. And those photos, I know that they are good. Whereas if I just went and did the brainless tourist thing and just went, bam, my, man, man, I recorded everything. I maybe wouldn't have had as much of a good time taking photos. I don't know? We always have a good time anyway, don't we have enough?

Is there anything to the idea that, like, the only thing I would really want cameras to change right now is maybe to add a little bit more character back into their shots? Because I do think we have gone a little too far in processing. Like, I feel like no matter what? what phone I pick up from from any of these like big companies like with the exception of like older one plus devices rest in peace like it's it's your your pixel and your galaxy and and so on I mean those are really the two big players and sort of that's sort of the problem is that they're sort of the only two left but it's like I do I do wish I didn't have to like edit every good photo I take

to make it better do you know what I mean like that didn't used to happen I used to be happy with what would come out and now I'm always like especially on I'm always like, let me just bump that contrast a little bit. Let me just bump that saturation a little bit. And I wish that is sort of the last thing I wish is that I could have a little bit more control over this without having to control every photo, which is ironic in the AI era to be like, why is this not just like happening automatically for me? Isn't that the whole promise of this phase that Google is in? I mean, I use zero cam. So I get that back.

but I know I've talked about it at length, so I'm not going to bore anyone with the details again. It's, I'm kind of the opposite, actually. I've stopped really editing photos and that I'm, I guess my mindset has become that whatever out, whatever picture the camera took is, I trust that to be,

to capture that moment, to capture the look, to capture the scene. So I, in the past few years, I've kind of stopped anything. That's so interesting because I have found it so, again, especially in pixel, there are times where I just watch the processing drain the saturation out of the shot. It really shows up a lot when I take photos of my orange cat, Linus, who like sometimes will look like exactly as orange as he does in the shot. And then I will watch the shot two seconds later. like he looks noticeably more blonde

and it's like that's what I have to go in and fix frequently and it's it's things like that where I'm like that color balance isn't right it's optimizing to try to create an equal balance of brightness across the shot but it it ends up distorting what the photo actually was but like I think this might be too different

this might also be like it's your cat the problem is your cat the problem is your cat it might be lying as this fall It might be minus as fall. It might be, I don't know. The color temperature of the outside light, L.A. versus Buffalo. I don't know.

I hope that over time, I mean, who is, this is probably really related to it, is who is really leading in the camera look stakes? Like, it felt like in the early days of smartphone camera, that's not Samsung, Apple really kind of, kind of drove the narrative of what an image should look like out of a phone. And I feel like Google done it a little bit for maybe three or four years

up to maybe Pixel 5 era. And then it's almost like, have we flipped back to iPhone? Does Samsung just kind of do what the hell they want? I don't really know who's leading there. I think the Hasselblad stuff for One Plus, we need to touch on that. They were very, I love the colors out of them, but they never really

maximized the setups. I don't know. I think if you look at the entire market, right, like if you open up to everything and we rewind the clock six months so that one plus is still there i think i think one plus under hassleblad and then also like opos like larger sensors usually that was probably the more outstanding option but like i have i have used very few of their phones because they're not sold here so uh i i would say like the one plus 13 was really the last like smartphone camera that really blew me away when i was using it where i was like oh i'm actually like i'm taking photos for like

the second I hit that shutter, I'm like, damn, I can't believe I got that in a smartphone photo. It truly, like, it took it from like, all of these are good to some of these are incredible, you know, which is a choice on consistency. Because I would say that the one plus 13, 13's camera was not as consistent as what you'll get out of a pixel. Yeah. but had higher highs. And I don't know, but these, if you look at what people are actually buying, which is pixels and, you know, I guess, and then, but really galaxy devices and, and, and iPhones, like, it sort of feels like, I don't hear people talking about their cameras a lot anymore, to be honest with you.

It feels like everybody has kind of accepted that, like, smartphone photos are like pretty much what they are. I don't think it's really easy to tell the difference between a photo that was taken. on a Samsung device and an iPhone and a pixel anymore. Like, they have their own characteristics if you're really a nerd about it. But if you are not even an average user, like I am not like a camera nerd the way you are Damien, for example. And like, I say that in a loving way to be clear. But like I have a harder time.

I will look for things like I, you know, I think Samsung's processing isn't as good. And I think specifically they handle motion really poorly. but outside of like little like errors like that like I have a hard time like fully knowing what came from what when in photo comparisons I think by the time you've uploaded the image to a social platform which I still think most people do I don't I think it gets even tougher to to tell and then I don't know I don't I mean I don't upload to Instagram very often I think it's 2024 since I lasted it which is same actually I think yeah I find that I don't make tweaks after the fact that I don't make tweaks after the fact that I don't I've just put the image as it is, whereas I wonder how many people are still using those, like, filters and stuff. I'm surprised, I'm surprised more, I mean, Samsung kind of copied. That feels absolutely down, like, seeing how people filter their photos. Hmm. Hmm.

I think, I think maybe a lot of it is just apathy towards photos, just take it and put it, put it there. Maybe, maybe the Gen Z, or Gen Z, are onto something and just tell it as it is and just have it raw, and it's fine, and, like, it's unfiltered. but at the same time you're still using a piece of technology that allows you to have a curated algorithmic look at whatever you share. So I don't know. That's maybe a moot point. I'm intrigued to hear what you guys think before we get into a bit more of like software stuff because I think software's really, really important when we talk about Android.

What would you want as your key components of a camera system? Because I think for me it would be probably pixel motion and consistency, Hasselblad Look from Oppo slash 1. plus and I think maybe feature set from Samsung. I'm not sure. I'll show me somewhere like that. I like the pixels like relatively simplistic UI and everything. I'm happy with that.

I think what I would really want is either a Hasselblan-esque color profile, color science, color tuning, or and or the, oh my God, what are they called? the camera what are the modes called on iOS a different like Photographic styles Yeah yeah yeah that's thank you thank you Abner I was stuck on the word camera

And not photographic Yeah something The equivalent to photographics is I think I think they're really and I think I've said this before But they're really bad Like I think I think the It's so confusing to me that Apple has because It has continues to hold this like

reputation of being the like the more simple choice, the easier to learn choice because like things like photographic styles are like terrible flows for the user. Like they make no sense. But in once you have it set up, I do like that idea of being able to be like Apple has made this, you know, they have their own processing that they, that they give to every iPhone user. But then you can kind of go in and tweak it to be as saturated or contrasty or, you know, cool or warm as you kind of want the shots to be. And it can be that default experience that keeps me

from having to edit the photos. So like that's really, it's in and or situation, but that's sort of where I'm at where I want a little bit more control over what I'm getting out of the photo than I think it's being offered. I think my only contribution to add, and it's a weird one,

is I like how simplistic the iOS camera app is, the recent redesign, so it 26, 27. I much prefer it over the pixel UI, which I think is actually pretty complicated at this point. Oh, I like it.

I don't know. I agree it's complicated, but I feel like everything's laid out pretty well. Yeah, I think it's nice and comfy. I'm in like that super minimalist phase where... That's fair. Yeah, iOS, zero cam to me is too minimalist, but that's really hard.

That's why I love it. But I, you know, iOS feels that's the camera app that looks nice to me. Maybe that's more visual and the functional thing. But yeah, that's where I am. I would love to see Google just go ultra controls and just throw a snap seed into the pixel camera. Could you imagine how insane that would be? And I think people would kind of like that. People love snap seed the app.

So why not integrate some more components of it? I don't know why they don't do that. So if anyone out there from Google is listening, just put. put snap seed in your app and make everybody happy. But yeah. Hey, everyone. If you're enjoying Pixelated, don't forget to sign up for 9 to 5 Google Pro to gain access to our weekly bonus show,

Pixelated Pro. This week, we're talking about viral AI assistance, memories of the old internet, and why people don't seem to click links anymore. Sign up today at 9 to5 google.com slash pro. Away from cameras then, because there's software running on it. Where do we think Android is in like,

I think Android 17 is kind of, in my opinion, put it in a position where we cannot expect these big changes all the time. AI will be where we get functionality and rightly or wrongly, and it can make up for some gaps. I feel like maybe 15, we hit a point where it was like, we're probably going to get much year over here. And you can kind of see that in these OS updates now. We're waiting for QPR 1 and what's QPR 1 going to bring to the table?

Nothing like last year, big visual overhaul. I don't know. Do you think it's in a strong position or like, are we in a position now where Android is kind of running out of runway for major changes that we probably expected years ago? I mean, look, like you use, like, for all of its faults, is Windows 11, like, that radically different than Windows 10, which, like, was that, was it that, and I'm skipping eight, was it that radically different than seven? Like, do you know what I mean? like we have hit this like I mean like truly a lot of the things I do on my Windows 11 computer are not that different from what I was doing on Windows XP 20 years ago yeah and I feel like we're there with with Android where like the only thing that will really happen is like you know

every few years the visual overhaul and it's it's tricky right because we are kind of talking about Google's build of Android specifically when we talk about this because not every company like embraces In fact, few kind of embrace the distinct look that they have fully built and instead lean into trying to clone Apple, right? So Android is in this weird space where it's like there is Google's flavor of Android. And then sort of everybody else, despite, you know, Samsung's build not feeling like Motorola's. Like they do all kind of take aspects from like the Apple side of the fence for some reason, whereas Google like basically holds off on any kind of like liquid glass-esque enhancements. but at the same time I sort of look at Google's build of Android as

Android in a world where AOSP is like not really a thing that matters much anymore outside of like very niche communities you kind of have to look at it like okay then that's what it's not stock Android but that is Android as the developer of Android would like you to think

of it and to that extent I think it's rock solid, but I do think that they Google, I mean, and they have to, I suppose, based on where the company is charted, but they lean on Gemini a lot as a crutch to make it feel like Android is getting more new features than maybe it is. Like some of them are new and some of them are just kind of like, this is sort of just an extension of like a chatbot. so in terms of design as we've all been saying there is room for Google to push Samsung and other OEMs to actually adopt dynamic cover

to actually adopt material to expressive so there is room in that regard a bit more so than hardware which is some of them using do I think Samsung and others will move away from the iOS copy of it? No, I don't and I don't think any of us do either. So in terms of design

there is stuff to look forward to and I guess more broadly apps, the third party apps, you could say you could say that there is more, no this is a historical issue, maybe issues too strong word but they've never really aligned in the way iOS can get its developers to align the look and feel. But I don't know. I guess apps is where I want to focus on here. It's I am somewhat of the opinion that this is a very hard take combined AI stuff. but I kind of think that apps, the future is generative UI,

where people request the apps, the functionalities, they want, the use cases they want, and it's ultimately the OS that makes it for them. I think we are headed towards that point, and I don't know what that says about the third-party app ecosystem in the long term, but I do imagine a future where there are default, apps that stay the same, like your calendar, your clock app or whatever. But I feel like once a

user needs something more specific, like let's say a trip planning app, they could very easily generate that. And I think most people would not know the difference. Yeah, I think that could be, I mean, we've talked about it before, haven't we here and across the website and everywhere else in between, is that once, if Google does that and kind of decouples Android from the way that it works right now and has a more broad Gemini spine where you can ask, oh, yeah, I want a, I want a calendar widget that also integrates my emails that are received on that day. I mean, that's a bad example. But that kind of stuff I do genuinely think is where we're going to get those major gains.

Because, like, what are we actually, I feel like, I mean, currently AI isn't doing anything that I'm not, that on a phone that I wouldn't do anyway. I'd ask the Google Assistant who turn on my lights, turn on the, you know, disable certain switches in my home. I'm still doing that with Gemini right now. I may have a conversation with it. That's kind of cool. But I'm not getting it to control aspects of my phone or I'm not getting it to design aspects of my phone that you alluded to, Abner. I do think that once that happens, my opinion of it will change drastically, i.e. I can make my phone my own. And with Gemini, is it create my widget or create a widget that's supposed to create my widget. So create my widget

is that first glimpse, isn't it? And I probably think that could be one of the biggest changes we have to Android in what, four years maybe, four or five years? Yeah, it's, they did tease a generative,

they think that generative UI plays an important role and it will start, and it starts to create my widget. I, yeah, I just think that it's, ironically, I think that this change

of UI will be more of a thing than controlling your apps with AI or your voice specifically because I'm still very, it's not a solved problem in terms of the technicals, in terms of desktop control, it's not even there, and that's, it's more power-intensive, et cetera, et cetera. I don't, and we don't have the local models to drop the latency to basically nothing. I do think that the first major use of AI will probably be generative UI over app control ironically Yeah I think I've tested app automations

I know that's been available in the US for a little bit And I just think that it's too hands off I can maybe understand like Gemini Spark I'm intrigued to see how that works I know it's available in previews in it in the US Like I don't think that on my phone is something I want to do I think maybe if I had a dead

desktop and I'm doing like desktopy things and it's fine. But I think for like phony stuff, I think it's kind of like this little experience where I have all my contacts and it's a bit more personable, isn't it? I don't necessarily would think I want AI to be doing things like booking dinner reservations and stuff for me without major oversight and maybe my opinion will change. But yeah, generative UI feels like a really good way to do it. I think we've often complained about customization options being removed and that would be the ultimate customization, wouldn't it?

There would be nothing that could compare to it with Android being, i.e. the platform, the tinkerer's choice of platform, I think. If I can push back on a little bit of this, I think the reason I don't see generative apps catching on to the... I do think they'll be more,

it'll be more popular than like, than agenic tools on Android, which I kind of think are a dead end. I just, I truly cannot think of a thing I do on my phone that I need an agent to do. I don't,

I think I would just caution there that it's not good enough and I think the history of technology is people ultimately want the convenience, but I don't think we're technically there yet. Yes, I just, it's just, I, like, what task am I? I, I just don't frequently do tasks on my phone.

that are longer than a few minutes, I guess. Like, I struggle to think of what that ends up being, but I might be an outlier there. To talk about the apps thing, I do think that will be a niche community, but I fear that there is, and Damien, this is, you brought up the exact perfect thing for me to talk about.

There will, I think this will happen, right? I think we will definitely enter the world of, like, Google rolling out a suite of tools, or maybe like, it's one app, but it's a suite of tools that allows you to build these, these like, generative AI apps for yourself to use in the way that you can kind of do in like Codex and so on and so forth right now, or I guess it's not Codex anymore. It's the super app. But there will be a point where there's essentially a fork in the road and it's either you go,

you know, full technical and that guarantees it's going to be niche forever. And I'm not saying, I'm not saying you're like coding or whatever, but like if you open it up, to do a lot of things, a lot of people are going to be turned off. The thing that is in my head would be like Tasker, right? Like, it's a, it's what a power app for users if you are patient enough to learn how to use it and so on, right? Like that, that's one route. The other route is, I think, more in line with what we've seen from Google on the, on the

customization aspect, which is, okay, fine, you guys want icon packs on pixel. here's AI generated icons that you can generate yourself. There's like five or six presets. Maybe we'll add more, but you're stuck to this pretty rigid formula as we generate this for you. And I think that's the more likely route for this to go.

And I think that gets more normal people to use it. But I think they end up, I think they end up kind of being like, oh, okay, and then moving on. And I think enthusiasts, if they go that route, are disappointed in the same way that I think a lot of us are, like, disappointed in the AI icon pack thing, Google World out. Yeah, maybe.

I think with good guide rails, I think it could be very, very useful. I guess it's just, it's either, I just don't see the middle ground that pleases both camps, is what I'm saying. Like, I feel like they're going to have to either go more technical, which closes off from the regular people that I think would probably get more use out of this anyway. Or they go with guardrails, but then people, who want these apps to do more are going to feel boxed in and frustrated. Possibly. Possibly. I think it's kind of like,

to tie it up in a little bit neat bow, I think it's one of those two things that's going to happen, isn't it? They may give us a broad option where you can just have these guardrails bit like with the AI custom UI icons, which are not really that custom. It's a little bit like the AI wallpapers thing,

which is a really good way to test it and kind of build it out, I guess, and see how people use it. Yeah. I kind of think that that's what will happen. But I think more broadly, the smartphone has hit his peak. There isn't really a great deal of true innovation that can happen anymore because it hit its peak a few years ago. And now we're just talking to that intricacies of software and integrating AI into that.

This is going to be really good for Abner because I know he's very, very excited for this. The big frontier now is visual UI, i.e. Android XR, Android VR platforms, VR, maybe not. not so much. I'm kind of not sold on that. Like, if glasses are the future, then we're right on that precipice now, aren't we? We're right on the very edge

before this becomes, potentially becomes truly mainstream. Like, those meta ones, the purve glasses, I think if we had the, if we have a visual UI that's within your field of vision and you can have Android right there

and everything in your fingertips in your eyeballs, I think that might be, that might be the change. You're describing my nightmare. I don't want that. I mean, I'm very intrigued. Having tested it, I may be, I don't know if I'm a full convert yet, but there was some aspects of it.

I was like, okay, I get this. I can see, I can definitely see the user value there. I do think that, that Google is going to do a, going to make a really big move into this space and like make a big swing at it. I am, I don't know. I really don't know where the public sentiment is going to, like, fall on this thing. I think it's the worst thing that could happen for Google right now. is that is all of the summer's press around meta. I really do think it will impact Google's launch

to a certain extent because meta is so destructive to everything they touch that like when you have three or four bad news stories in a row about meta's smart glasses, that does end up, you know, like colliding the well a little bit. I'm not saying it's a dead product mine, but I do think like,

Google is going to have to find a way to clean up meta's mess a little bit when they, like, first put these on sale. In addition to, like, you know, like, man, glass hole was just enough of an insult to catch on with people 10 years ago, 15 years ago or whatever. And, like, I'm dying to, maybe most people have memory hold it to the point where it doesn't matter, but I am curious to know if people are going to be like, Google's making glasses? I remember that.

It was weird and bad. And like, I don't know. Again, I'm speculating. Like, I've no idea how this launch is going to go for them, other than the fact that I do know that they are going to have to probably talk more about safety and privacy than they would have because of meta. I do wonder, though, because Google, if Google doesn't make their own hardware, which I'm surprised that they won't, I wonder if, I wonder if the onus is on Samsung, particularly, who are probably going to be the first to do it. they're much more invested in it because they're selling the hardware and Google is just

the software stewards. From a purely software perspective, it looks like the shift that maybe some people are waiting for. This feels like the most science fictiony shift forward for like tech that I've seen. But when you, yeah, they are going to have to, I don't think it's going to be Google, to be I think it's probably going to be Samsung that has to deal with the fallout from meta personally. That's just my opinion on it.

because Google aren't the hardware people. Do you know what I mean? Does that make sense? Then again, Rayban, does Rayban deal with, does Rayban deal with meta's issues in the same way? Not necessarily, but I think that the category has been consigned to Raybans.

Like, meta grasses is not taking the brunt of it. It is meta Raybans, and I am of the opinion that they've metas somehow found a way to ruin Raybans as a branding and cultural thing and oof. Yeah. Yeah. What are you most excited for then I'm going in terms of

like the glasses side of things. Like I know that you are probably the most excited of the team of this. Like what your key like obviously let's just pretend and skip forward that we're going to get visual, the visual side of things first. What is the big key usage that you think this will change from using your smartphone on a day to day basis?

I think again, I think I'm still so very invested in point of view cameras being like something that you have to experience it to realize how valuable that is, that instant access to camera. Of course, the privacy considerations of that, but I think they will outweigh it once you see that how powerful and authentic and immediate those shots are. But in terms of the functionality, I think that, I think it's the head film. initially. It's always wearing headphones and being able to deliver silent information that way. But in terms of the display thing, I just think that it's ironically you have to do more technology to get less technology if grasses are enough to deliver message notifications. And I don't think audio notifications are going to work for most people because the chance of overhearing it is

kind of annoying. But I think that discrete notifications, I think that is really a way to maybe have people use the rest of their phones. Do you see it as a supplementary thing? Because I know there's talk about, I don't even know who the quotes attributed to it. It might be, do you know, it might be Zuckerberg actually saying that he thinks that phones will be replaced by glasses at some point in the future. I'm not sure if I agree with that. Do you think it's a supplementary thing or do you think it's its own standalone? I will ditch my phone for all this.

From a technical standpoint, that is not plausible for, I don't know, next five years. Again, you don't want to put a 5G radio next to your head. So there will always be offhanding processing to the phone. But I think in the further future, like the idea that instead of looking at a laptop, you, the screen, imagine a laptop quality screen, always floating in your line of view. I think that could be absolutely revolutionary. It has the potential to replace your phone. But until we can know we can work through these cultural stigmas around it,

especially like we have a technology right now is in a state where people kind of want the rest of it, I think there is you can't discount the phone for the foreseeable future. And I think that will always remain the default thing for people as the primary computing device. for I say a good 10 years. Do you know what I think really makes it so that smart glasses are more like a smart watch than a replacement for a smartphone? Obviously, you can kind of replace a smartphone

with a smart watch a little bit or at least you can leave your phone at home. But I think as long as, and I don't see this changing anytime soon, as long as messaging is as prominent thing as it is, Like, I just don't, in the, I don't, I don't have long conversations through my smart watch. And like, I'm not going to do it through my, through smart glasses either. Like, I, I really think that, like, the ability to type is underrated.

And, and you can't do that on smart glasses. I really think that, like, having something tactile, even a touchscreen is, yet what? I think in like the future where your glasses can replace your laptop screen yes you'll be able to type on any surface but that is still for future stuff I just thought the touchillity how is that working when you're walking around

like you know what I just I agree with you Abner I I'm more on your side for replacing something like a laptop or like essentially being a little bit more of a you know maybe it's not all of the process of power it still has that handshake, but it is like, you don't look at your laptop screen anymore. I'm with you more on that. But, like, when I think about, like, what I use my phone for, it's, it's messaging is far in

away the number one use case from my phone. And, like, I'll send voice texts in the car. I don't mind doing that. And, like, I wouldn't mind, you know, if I was walking somewhere with smart glasses on and someone messaged me like, hey, you on your way? And I would absolutely reply from, with my voice from my smart glasses. Like, yeah, on my way. But like, you're not going to want to have, you're not going to want to have, you know, group chat, like, conversations about meaningless, whatever, like, through your glasses.

I think that's... To me, it's a little bit like, we really haven't seen people be like, I'm going all in on just my smart watch, despite the fact that that has a similar level of freedom and access to smart glasses. obviously not right in front of your face, but there's something to that. And you can go cellular and all of that. You can leave, you can do everything from your phone. And in fact, do more because, like, you know, I was sitting here wondering, if you went full smart glasses, how am I doing mobile payments, right? Am I taking my glasses off tapping them? I don't know. Head, head, but the, head button the, the fad. Um, there's things like that, but I, I, it might be QR codes. All comes us. You mean, everybody loves QR codes. Just ask restaurants from

2020 to 2023. But I guess to me it's just like I feel like if smart glasses were really going to kill phones

like for sure or if we would see more people relying on just smart watches right now. Yeah,

it's a really good point. Oh, okay, let's kind of give ourselves a report card then for where

Android is currently when we wrap this up because I feel like we've had a full wave of emotion there that is talking about favorite platform, or at least most people's favorite platform, if you listen to this,

it should be as well. I genuinely would be intrigued to see what you guys think. I'll let you guys go first, and I'll give you where I think that they are. Let's do a report, Cal. Let's go, what, A to C? Is it C? C, bad grade? I don't know. C's a passive grade. F would be to F. Let's go to F. Yeah, Android as a whole. Yeah, Android is a platform. The entire thing, end to end, phones, glasses, VR, you name it. We've got TV as well thrown in, which, which I think is an untapped potential, or there's a lot of tapped potential there. B. A B.

There's things I can probably think of to improve on most places besides the phone. And so I think a B is a solid grade. I don't disagree with that. I think B is, there's always room for improvement, but I think the current state of the is absolutely fine and effective of a mature platform. Okay. I'm going to go get us a great. then I'm going to say a minus and I'm only going to say a minus because I think that we

reached a point where Android has proven that it's as competent as any other platform out there. It can go into places that even iOS couldn't, definitely can't do. I'm intrigued to see what happens with Android on desktop platforms in the coming months. So we barely even touched on it. I know we've been a little bit negative about Google Book, but I think when Abner's kind of brought me around when we talked briefly about generative UI and generative apps, I do I think there's definitely some untapped potential there. And if people can tailor their experiences to what they want, and especially a technical product like that,

I think it could be really, really powerful. I'm, I guess we're on the, we're kind of on the eve of pixel, well, not quite, but we're a couple of weeks away from Pixel 11 launch. And I think we have to put a positive spin on it

because I think there's a lot of things to be positive about. Maybe we've been, well, our expectations have been dampened because we're getting a similar phone than we've seen in the past two years. But Android, the platform's going from strength to strength. We might lose a few players here and there. But yeah, Andrew is in a good spot.

And I'm excited for the future. Yeah. It's a good place to leave it. I think it's a good place to leave it. Let's head over to our little pro enclave, talk a little bit more random things. Maybe get into this a little bit as well. I'd love to have you join us. Go check out the links down in the show notes.

If you do want to join 955 Google Pro, it helps support us, support what we do here. you might get some kind of insight into our little interesting lives outside of tech as well. And I'd love to have you come listen. So come on over and we'll continue the conversation. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to Pixelated, a 9 to 5 Google podcast. If you enjoyed the show, we ask that you rate and review it on the podcast platform of your choice

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