Pixelated - Is the Ultra-Slim Smartphone Race Already Over?

Episode Date: October 17, 2025

Welcome to episode 74 of Pixelated, a podcast by 9to5Google. This week, Abner, Damien, and Will turn their attention to the rumored cancellation of next year's Galaxy S26 Edge. The trio discuss what this means for the S25 Edge's poor sales, and how it relates to Samsung's ongoing strategy of trying to compete with Apple product by product. Plus, Abner takes the opportunity to share his thoughts on the iPhone Air a month after launch, and a look into what Google can learn from all of this. Subscribe YouTube Podcasts Pocket Casts Spotify Apple Podcasts Overcast Timecodes 00:00:00 - Galaxy S26 Edge might be cancelled 00:06:04 - iPhone Air thoughts and S25 Edge comparisons 00:14:41 - Samsung's strategy and the future of thin phones 00:25:08 - Battery life concerns 00:34:16 - Ultra-thin phones vs. flip phones 00:45:20 - iOS 26 and shortcut buttons 00:53:08 - What Google can take away from this launch cycle Hosts Abner Li Damien Wilde Will Sattelberg Read more The Galaxy S25 Edge failed so badly that Samsung might give up on thin phones Samsung reportedly dumps Galaxy S26 ‘Pro’ as its vision for copying Apple crumbles iPhone Air review: The thinnest iPhone ever, but at what cost? [9to5Mac] Listen to more 9to5 Podcasts The Sideload 9to5Mac Happy Hour Electrek Space Explored Feedback? Drop us a line at [e-mail], leave a comment on the post, or reach out to our producer.

Welcome to Pixelated episode 74. I'm your host, Will Saddleberg. This week, Abner, Damien, and I focus in on ultra-thin smartphones following the rumored cancellation of next year's planned Galaxy S-26 Edge. With the S-25 Edge having failed to make a splash in the market, what does that mean for Samsung and the rest of the S-26 series moving forward? Plus, Abner shares his thoughts on the iPhone air after a month's worth of use. Heads up, this episode was recorded prior to recent

rumors that the Galaxy S-26 Pro might just be called the Galaxy S-26 after all. So it looks like the Samsung Galaxy S-25 Edge has been a little bit of a failure, guys. I think maybe we're not ready for thin phones. I don't know. I'm kind of the opinion that we want thick phones, big batteries, don't care about thinness, but maybe the market's kind of evened itself out and decided for us. I don't know what you guys think about it. So what exactly has Samsung cancelled here, or rumoured to cancel?

Well, it looks like the S-25 Edge, right, Will? Yeah, S-26 Edge, it sounds like. So the news out this morning as we're recording yesterday, as this episode comes out, is it's reporting out of Korea, and it basically sounds like Samsung is canceling the Galaxy S-26 Edge launch that's coming. early next year in lieu of just doing an S-26 plus, which all of the reporting for the past several months has been no S-26-plus. They're dropping the plus lineup to do the edge. They're renaming the base model to pro. They're reconfiguring their lineup. And it seems like the S-25 edge, which we've

known for a while to be a sales failure, has basically, you know, completely torn up Samsung's roadmap for next year because they're so concerned that replacing what I assume is a pretty decent seller, although I wouldn't be surprised it was, I don't remember what the S-25 sales are, I wouldn't be surprised with the plus is the least selling of the three just because it's, it's that middle child. But I, you know, they're skittish about the idea of replacing what is a successful product lineup with one that is not shown to be successful. And so, yeah, we might be looking at a one and done with the S-25 Edge at this point. And I think Motorola this week, they had some, what was the latest on Motorola's device here?

Yeah, the Moto 70 edge is it, I believe? Edge 70, in China, it's the X70 air. Right. We got a Chinese announcement this week. So, like, in typical fashion, we have one brand potentially pulling out and then another one deciding that we're going to get into this space. Like, I mean, I'm in the complete opposite to the kind of person who wants a thin phone. I want a, like I say, I want a phone that's thick, plenty of battery.

I don't care about thinness that much. I think we've reached a point now where maybe if there, maybe the only argument I have is a phone that is thin that then I put a case on and it's, right, it's thinner. Does that make sense? Like, yeah. I just, I just don't know who this phone was for. I just, I mean, we've talked about it on the pod before. The S-25 Edge always felt like that kind of trying to beat Apple to the punch.

And whether or not it's a bad product or not, I haven't used it. And I don't know anyone who has used it widely. Like, did they preempt something and preempt a market that doesn't exist yet? Maybe I don't know. Maybe it needed Apple to come into the marketplace for everyone to understand that. Maybe thin phones are something that are viable. I'm not really sure. I know that we'll get into it in a little bit.

I know you have the iPhone Air Abdon. We'll talk about that because I kind of really interested to that. experience. But like, it almost seems to be that everybody seems to want a thicker phone with more battery. So why not cater for that? I feel like that would be a better way of doing it. So, yeah, the battery is absolutely people's overarching concern, demand requirement in modern smartphones. Obviously, makes sense why. But what, and I do think that is the right thing to optimize for that everyone should have as much battery as possible. But at the same time, my thinking was that the only thing that could not beat that overarching

desire is something as thin as premium as something like the iPhone there or what the edge tried to do. That and affordable screens, I guess, is a trade-off that people might be willing to make. but as we've said before on this podcast the edge the s25 edge did not seem like a a i don't know a a spirit of a device that had a purpose outside of beating the iPhone there to market and i think we're seeing what happens uh if it's if this current if the upcoming one is canceled so i was going to get an edge but I ended up not but I was very excited that the that uh Samsung was going to put it into its main lineup over the plus with the S-26 um I'm sure the plus is that big phone that gets sold on

carriers um in terms of what people people that just want a phone that has a big screen I'm sure that's what how it was pushed and yeah to me it was exciting that uh Samsung was willing to do a second generation of the edge. They were willing to make it a mainstream idea, a mainstream option. So I am disappointed that that's not happening. At terms of having my iPhone there, so I upgraded from the 13 mini, four-year gap, I love it.

It's thin, it feels futuristic, which is, I do admit, that is something, that I'm something I look forward to in all technology I use, just fearing futuristic, especially with the past two generations of pixels, fearing like the iPhone, like every other phone. The air was a breath of fresh air to be funny. It just feels that thinness is something,

it just feels like you're holding a grass. is the sliver of glass. That's how I best describe it. It just feels like it's nothing that you're familiar with. In the modern era, there was the Motu Z, which was thinner, and I enjoyed that phone thoroughly. But I don't know, having a thin phone, it just feels futuristic. And I do fully admit that I'm in the minority in terms of. of wanting something futuristic.

But we have to see what the iPhone air sales are. But I think people, there are people that might appreciate, whoa, this feels different from that I've been using the past few years. Do you think as well, though, the issue is that Samsung has a more vibrant, I use the word vibrant. It is in a lot of ways. They have different form factors that Apple doesn't have and Apple can't get into them just yet.

I do wonder if the existence of the flip, the existence of the fold the I think they've done a concept for the tri-fold right this this felt like maybe a bridge too far in terms of a wider array of devices they have available to them

because they can make those gains in every area that maybe Apple can't because obviously Samsung is so entrenched within display manufacture this felt like they're not flexed they're flexing their muscles a little bit but not enough like maybe the

the Z-fold Z-Fold 7 does and the Z-Flip does, like those exist for a reason, there is a form factor benefit to having those the way that they are. And the Fold 7 is fantastic. Like, in terms of thinness as well, when you have it fully open, it is thinner than the Galaxy S-25 Edge. And it's, in a lot of ways, it is a kind of a technical marvel in that respect. So this doesn't feel like in the same category of that. I don't know, I do, I'm kind of trying to get behind the theory and the mindset of Samsung putting this phone out there.

and it does, like you say, it comes back to the idea that it only feels like a concept to push Apple or to say to Apple, yeah, we're on your heels a little bit. I don't know. Am I wrong for thinking that?

Or do you think that's kind of maybe some of the thought process that they had in Korea before it was originally launched? I'm in the same boat as you, Damien. I think, and I think Apple's actually has similar motivation.

I think the S-25 Edge was kind of, you know, 50% or maybe more than 50, but, you know, at least 50% focused on beating Apple to the punch, beating Apple to market. And the other 50% or other share of it was, well, we've been working on this technology for our foldable lineup and we have the ability to make this ultra-thin chassis and push it out to consumers. We might as well make an alternate device for somebody who wants this status symbol, I think the problem comes in when it's, you don't do enough to differentiate

from the rest of the product lineup, right? Like, I think if you look at Apple, and I think, I think the iPhone air in a lot of ways we've talked about is, is very much like, we're working on this technology for a foldable. Like, here is, you know, kind of what we're, kind of what we're working on. But because we're not ready to ship a foldable, we can ship this ultrithen status symbol phone. I think the difference is if you look at how Samsung and Apple both approached the release of this device, right? So even setting aside the idea that Apple is, you know, more of a status symbol company in general, I think had Samsung launched the S-25 Edge with the rest of the S-25 lineup or instead of the plus model, right, and made it feel a little bit more part of the lineup, which they were about to,

like they were going to do in January or February, like early next year. Yeah, felt like that, right? Right. And so I think if they had made this feel like a proper launch instead of four months later after a bunch of, you know, rumored delays and slowdowns and kind of this very, like, unceremonious May launch that felt sandwiched between all these developer conferences and Samsung's own unpacked event in July. Like, it felt very snuffed out of by, or by the competition in a way that Apple obviously didn't have when they launched the iPhone error alongside the iPhone 17 series. And I think that's another thing is that Apple was able, by dropping the number,

was able to kind of be like, this is its own thing, you know, this is a status symbol item. Buy it if you want this like more premium experience, this alternate iPhone experience, versus Samsung being like, well, it's part of the S25 series. It's not really, you know, as good as any of them. It has more shortcomings than any of them, and it's expensive and it's premium. And, you know, we're launching it four months late. So this, like, hype cycle around a new lineup of phones has already come and gone. And I think the entire thing. And then they just didn't have a story to tell.

And I do think Apple had a story to tell with the iPhone error, right? Like, they at least sold it in a way that was like, you know, we've created this super thin, ultra-thin premium phone that's going to change how you feel about your phone. you're going to carry your device differently. And I never got, I don't even know what Samsung was technically trying to accomplish here beyond beating Apple to the punch and just having this technology ready. And as you said, the Fold 7 essentially used the same, you know, idea of an ultra-thin phone much, like to a much better degree, a much more powerful degree, two months later.

And they're both expensive devices. And if you're doing like a monthly plan or your trading phones in, the price is start to look a little more similar. And so it became one of those things where it was like the market for this phone was just going to wait for a foldable or buy a standard S-25. It definitely feels like that, right? It feels like they have, that they ran out of runway for it. Like the personal investments kind of not there. But like, let's, I mean, if we dial into the numbers, according to this report, we have what? They sold 1.3-1 million units as of August. Like, let's be completely honest,

if Google was getting those kind of numbers in that time frame, we would be shouting about it. It's amazing. It's that's such good sales for a pixel device. Like, I think, I mean,

when you compare it to say the S-25 Ultra, if I can say it, that sold 12 million units in the same period of time. Like, to me, this doesn't seem like a complete nut of failure, but obviously from Samsung's optics,

it really is. Like, this is the levels that, the kind of the competition and the levels that they are at, whereas other brands would be killing, for those kind of sales figures in that time frame.

So for us to say, and obviously it feels like a failure, I think they can kind of write this off because if you go look at Apple, Apple have done similar things before, right? They've done the mini, they've done the SE to a lesser extent, which is, I'm guessing it's been pretty successful, or have they quit that lineup? I don't even know. Like, Apple is no secret to introducing devices

that don't catch on, and neither is Samsung. But I think Samsung team tends to do it at a faster rate, and this feels just like one of those, I'm going to coin it. I think it's a bit of a successful failure on their part. They've tried it. They've proven that maybe for our line up, this doesn't work. And I think if they're going to make thinner phones,

they can do it on their devices anyway, right? They've proven that we can make a thin phone and it has high-end internals in it. And we could probably see the S-26 Ultra marginally thinner, maybe with a silicon carbon battery in it, and they can say, hey, we learned something from the S-25 edge. We've made our flagship phones thinner. I don't know.

as much as I I want there to be ultra thin phones in the truest sense I do think that Samsung should have committed whatever effort to improving the flip to making the flip thinner a year earlier maybe etc that's to me that seems to have been a differentiator and a better where to commit engineering resources and all that.

A successful failure is, I think that's a good way to put it for the S-25 edge for Samsung. Again, I do wish that they'll continue iterating and seeing what, like, give it the full marketing launch, give it the usual, when people are in stores deciding whether they want the S-20 switch, which S-26 they want, they should have given the edge of fair shake. and I don't, it doesn't seem like we'll get there.

I don't even remember an edge ad. I remember other S25 ads. I don't remember one for the edge. Yeah. Do you think there was just like a confidence in it? Do you think there was a lack of confidence that it's going to set the market alike? Do you think the way that they did it

with the delayed launch? Because it was, was it unveiled alongside the S25 series and then it was released just at the MWC? Very brief teas. Very brief teas at the very, end of the show, you know, I remember sitting there in California watching it. And it was, they wrapped up and then there was like a 30 second like coming soon. And they had devices on display, but you couldn't, you couldn't touch them. They were just like hanging. Yeah, that's never a good sign.

That was never ever a good sign. It never worked premium. The S-25 Edge never looked like a premium device. It just worked the camera, the way they did the camera bump, it screamed that we had to do this. It had no intention. You didn't seem like it had any intentionality to it. And I think speaking back to the air, that does look like a premium device from afar. Porished edges, used deftory. It just looks like a premium device. And then once you get in store, which Apple obviously has that retail advantage of letting people try it on scale. And so they're just being like one device and the best buy.

there's a whole mess of them everywhere. I guess the other thing with the iPhone there that I found surprising is, as a person that usually prefers small screens, going to this 6.5, I love it. It made me tolerate, or not even feel like I'm using a gigantic large phone that I have to pocket and work with. So that has been another surprise that, oh, maybe I do can with. a big screen as long as the dimensions of it don't feel like it.

I don't know. It's, again, it just feels futuristic and I'm enjoying it greatly. I wonder if you, you mentioned briefly there as well, though, that the design is, is futuristic. I do wonder as well that this is just tying it back a little bit to the S-25 edge. I do wonder if hindering, they've hindered themselves by tying it into the S-25 lineup. So it has, basically the iPhone Air is its own separate line now, right? It has iPhone flavorings.

It's an adjacent product. Whereas the S-25 edge is very much one foot, basically two feet, actually, in the S-25 lineup. So by differentiating the device and making it completely different, it causes problems. And they already have their own FE series as well. So there's a lot of confusion about, oh, which is the S-25 device for me? At least with Apple's device, they've said, and they've gone whole hog on it. And they've been like, okay, this is the air.

It has one camera. We've made it super thin. It looks slightly similar to devices you may have seen from us before, but it's still its own thing. And we've engineered it to be its own thing. I just felt like with this, like we've alluded to, like several times already,

is that there is no differentiation factor. It looks like an FE. It looks like the base model Galaxy S-25. And Apple doesn't have to have that. problem, they can be like, hey, this is, this is not related to the iPhone 17. This is completely different. And if you want something completely different, come to us. And like, and going back to the retail store thing, I think that is a fantastic way to differentiate your products. If you just have one, like you say, one floating device in Best Buy, I don't know what the equivalent here

is in the UK, maybe Curry's or PC world. Like, you are not going to get one person going out of their way to do that. Whereas if you go into the Apple store, which a lot of people do, it's very much like a place people go and kind of engage with their product lineups, like you just, you go straight in and you see this wafer thin device not in at the back of a store behind all the TVs, behind all the fridges, behind all the washing machines, and you're not, you're going out of your way to look for a device and this thing stares you in the face. Yeah, I just think that we're talking about levels here. And I think product confidence is probably the biggest, biggest thing that's striking me as

are talking this out? Yeah. The thing with the iPhone Air, it's very much a continuation of what Apple did with the iPad Pro in terms of making thinner and thinner devices. I think like 5.3 and 5.1

to the iPhone Air's 5.5 maybe. Have you, either of you, have the iPad Pro or used or handled the iPad Pro? I've handled it and it's way thin. it's crazy.

It makes my 329 iPad feel like it's like a budget device from 2018. Yeah, and last year at the Series 10, they shrunk the watch and the Apple Watch. And that was also very noticeable. So it does seem like there's a design mandate from Apple to make everything thinner. And I remember you seeing the watch will at that Series 10 last year. remarking that, oh, it does look thinner. And again, with the iPad Pro, it feels like you're holding a piece of grass in your hand.

To me, the Vox, like the first time I used a tablet and like browse like a desktop website, I think we were talking about the touch pad area offline, but that was like my first tablet. It was my first affordable tablet. And that felt pretty, it holding

it felt like you're holding the internet in your hand in the way it was so much more visceral and your iPhone air evokes that again

so I guess the takeaway for the Android landscape is if Samsung is out I'm curious again we'll see what Motorola does and whether

they find any more success but there's probably some lighting on the wall there in terms of now that Samsung as long as maybe most likely exited the market. Again, as we were alluding to pixel as on a much different scale, but I would have loved to see a thick,

alter thin pixel. But given the fact that Google has never, it does not seem like they're going ahead on a flip phone. It doesn't seem like something even more niche as an alternate phone, high without Google pursues that. And the Pixel 10 series in general is pretty bulky by modern standards anyway. It's not overly thick, but especially once you combine the camera

bump, you're above 12 millimeters. I think even without it, though, it's like roughly nine, right, maybe a little sub-nine. I would really like to see companies like Samsung and Google and anybody kind of just take what they've learned from these experiments, which was sort of, you know, know, maybe the initial, uh, inspiration anyway. And, and, and take those advancements and bring them to the S 20, too late for the S 26 ultra, but the S 27 ultra or the pixel 11, like devices like this.

And, and, and I'm not saying go ultra thin, but if we can start getting it to the point where like every flagship phone is like seven point five, seven point three, seven millimeters, like, you know, that, that's middle ground where they've taken these advancements they've learned and they have slimmed the device down and therefore the device weighs less, but you're not getting hit with all of the compromises that come with the S25 edge or the iPhone error regarding, you know, battery life or even durability. I, I would really like to see that. I'm not against slimmer, lighter devices because I agree with you, Abner, like, I think they do sort of accomplish similar objectives compared to the iPhone

like the iPhone 13 Mini or like smaller devices right like just making the device thinner and lighter in your pocket kind of even with a larger screen kind of accomplishes you know a similar goal and I I'm not against that I think it's just that the price

and the compromise and battery like these things are like harder to stomach for regular users yeah I do think you need that thin phones I view them as an experiment and we'll see how much of a market success is after that. And I guess they stop being experiments. But yes, I am all for thin the phones.

I do feel like the pixel 9 could have been a hair thinner and I would have enjoyed the hand feel much more. So I do, well, you'd be great if everything got earth a bit thinner without, not at the expense of battery life at the same time, it is different than a dedicated alter thing. thin phone. Yeah, I do. It is, there's a difference there in terms of

going, hitting five, whatever at whatever range, that just feels different. And in a way that you do have to feel it in your hand. And yeah, I guess it comes back to the idea of battery life being this. It makes, that is a thing to prioritize for everybody. It's people just don't want. people's charging anxiety is not insignificant.

And especially Samsung doesn't emphasize charging speeds, do you know? Like it doesn't, you know, this isn't like a one plus device where it's like, well, sure, the battery life's not great, but plug it in for 20 minutes and you are good to go. Yeah. I have a theory for you guys actually. One more cardinal sin, I think Samsung committed and that doomed the S-25 edge. and it's it's Chi too because if you go look at reviews if you compare reviews of the S25 edge and the iPhone air neither of them are getting you know props for their battery life right like

I do think the iPhone air probably is slightly no no pun intended slightly edges out the edge but but but Apple's big you know Samsung made this uh announcement of the edge and was like all day battery life and reviewers got their hands on it and said, not my all day. Not for me. You know, maybe if you're a really light user, but even, even moderate users are going to hit a wall in the evening. Apple got up and said, all day battery life. And then, you know, dot, dot, dot. And also we have this magnetic charging pack that we have built specifically for this phone. That, that you can carry around and just makes the phone like thicker, obviously, but it's, it's made for this device. You know,

which is going to cause problems later on when you suddenly have a battery pack that doesn't work with your new phone maybe in three or four years. But for now, is a good solution. And, and, you know, we gave Samsung, or at least I gave Samsung a lot of grief this year for not arriving with proper Che2 support. They did this Chee Too ready thing where they sell not very good first party cases that do have magnets. But I think if they had launched, you know, the S-25 series and specifically the edge with proper Cheeto MagSafe like technology, in a battery pack to go with it, I do think at the very least,

the battery complaints are alleviated a little bit. And you can see this in the iPhone air reviews. Like people often are like, but, you know, I had this battery pack and it was totally fine. Do you think as well that we've, I don't, I'm asking you, but I'm also going to give an anecdote here of what I see. The amount of people that you see out and about in the world, and weirdly in the UK sitting terrain stations and places like that,

you see people running around with the power brick and the cable with the phone in the hand. And I do wonder if that is kind of ingrained within people's life cycle now with smartphones, the way that they are and all that kind of jazz. I wonder if, like, people don't necessarily have charge anxiety in the same way that they used to because I just chuck it in the wall when I'm at a location.

Sure. And charge bricks are getting smaller and small. and small and smaller. It's really strange that we've gone from this phase of having, I guess, the form factor has kind of been settled on and now we've hit this plateau of like really innovation genuinely, generally in smartphone space.

So we're going for the thinness, but we haven't had that battery innovation yet. So we're kind of like trying to play catch up. Like thinness is going to play catch up. The batteries are going to be terrible. Well, not terrible. They're just not great. because obviously we have the efficiency of the chips,

but we don't necessarily have the batteries that can take about it. It's a whole thing, right? I do wonder if now in the next few years we'll start to see companies, silicon carbon seems to be a bit of a breakthrough, because we can just get more capacity in a smaller space. I don't wonder if that is like the kind of the silver bullet

to this thinness argument and the battery life. But again, I just, I wonder how the average person on the street is going to, like, do they care about this? Do they want the shiny thing that's thin know that they just really want a brick. Because I'm more of the guys who used to have, do you remember those belking cases? You'd have a belking case which had a power bank attached to it.

See, I would run around with one of those all day. So I'm not the kind of, and power banks, like the power bank market must be rubbing their hands together. I think Anker must be out there thinking, oh, we're going to make so, we're going to make billions off the back of the iPhone. Chee 2 is going to wash in a new era for power banks. I agree. It already is.

I really think that people, I think people like power banks, but I think they like them in specific situations. I think people will accept it when they're traveling that the mess of wires and the added bulk in their purse or backpacker pocket. I think once you're talking about day-to-day use and you're talking about adding a power bank to your day-to-day use, it's got to be magnetic. It's got to be as. And, you know, firsthand, anecdotally, my fiance, like, I've never seen her take to a power bank like the MagSafe power bank she has now, where she just constantly, you know, in the evening, if her phone is running low on energy, will pop that on in a way that I, I've never seen her use

other power banks. And trust me, this house is filled with power banks. So like it's, it's, it's interesting. I think people really take to the convenience of magnetic accessories. And And that's kind of why I think, I'm not saying the S-25 Edge is a sales success with Chitou, but I think it's a better story. I think it's an easier sell to consumers. But then how does Samsung hide the fact that their flagship device, the S-25 Ultra, which I still think is the better.

I mean, it's hard to argue how good this phone is, considering it made negligible gains in almost every single area. But the sum of its parts make it fantastic. It's like eight, nine out of ten in every department. Like, how do they justify this phone not having Chi 2 and then the S-25 Edge, which is a slightly cheaper version of this with lesser specifications, not having it? They all should have had it, is my answer. Yeah, and I agree.

Yeah, I agree with it. But then they get themselves into a mess of problems where it's like, uh, and then now they're looking and saying, well, we have this incredible foldable device, our best foldable ever. And that doesn't have it. So I think the timing was just bad. It was just a bad timing thing. If they release this as an S-26 edge,

give it a little bit longer in the oven. Like, it wouldn't have taken much to put the magnets on the back of the device, right? Like the coil, it's the last thing you put on the device when you manufacture these. Recall it, give it a few moments in the oven. But they had to beat Apple. They thought they had to beat Apple.

It just comes back to that, right? It's the problem. Yeah. Well, let's get into a little bit of what makes the air so much different than Abner. I mean, those of us, we've seen the S-25 edge. Where do you think the air stands on its own then compared to, say, a regular phone in this space? Because there's a lot of, I'm guessing there's a lot of us who are Android people,

who don't necessarily care all that much about iOS. But it's nice to learn from the other side and kind of work out what they've done well, what they've done badly, all that kind of jazz. Let's just get into some of the core things you think set this apart from the Pixel 10, for instance. It's just the hand feel. It's something once you live with it. It just, the weight still gets me every time. It's been a few weeks, but the lightness, it makes the pixel 10 feel thick.

And I objectively know it's like a total, the pixel 10 is absolutely average in that regard. It is an average sized phone, an average weighted phone. You're using the 10 pro, right? The regular 10 pro is small one. Well, I mean the 10 pro and the 10 is just, and the width compared to the identical. It's really, that's not the tangent, but these are the same peering phones. It is quite remarkable. And I don't know if that can continue in the same way, but we'll get back to that.

No, to what you're asking, it's the weight, it's the, it's a sliver. It's hard to describe. It's holding glass. It just feels like there's nothing else that you're holding nothing else. In terms of who the air is for, yeah, absolutely first adopters. But I do think that there is a non-insignificant proportion of people that buy just either a regular phone. That'd be perfectly happy with the air. maybe people that aren't on their phones as much

I think that would be perfectly fine with the battery where I forget them through a day it'll obviously be a rest and if they got a 17 but I think it gets them through the day just fine the air versus the foldable the flip style foldables is also an interesting thing to look at

I where where are we on the on flip phones do we think I don't know. I was about to ask you the same question. I feel like they must be. Like, Samsung is selling millions of these every year,

and so technically they are out of success, and everyone seems to have copied them. I feel like with the flip, the Z-flip, the, it's a very specific kind of person that would use one. And weirdly, I see them out in the wild quite regularly, which is fascinating to me. I just think that why would you benefit from this? But the old-school flip style, I think, is good for people

You don't know how to put the phone down when they call. You can just slap it shut and it's done. That, I love. I don't, I feel like it's a halfway house of benefits of a modern smartphone and that tiny outer screen as well really doesn't do much for me. I just feel like you're, you kind of selling yourself short by getting a flip personally, but over a regular fold. Yeah, it's, yeah, it's like, you, yeah, it's like a square,

but the square is such a weird thing to hold in the grand scheme. It is, it's bulky, it looks weird in your pockets. The bulk is the thing for me, yeah. Which has got, to me it's a mum phone, it's a parent's phone, right? Yeah, your mum or your dad would, maybe not your dad, but your mum would use one of these because it's like, oh, throw it, close it, throw it in a bag, go in an eye, a handbag or a clutch bag. Yeah, it's terrible for pockets. That's how I see it.

Terrible for pockets. Yeah, yeah, that's it's for people who have pockets, yeah. But at the same time, it also feels so much more weighty. It feels so much more dense. So that even if you, like, thinking you have, like, a short pocket, a smaller pocket, it still just feels dense and weighty that it's ideally for a bag, messenger bags, purses, whatever. It's, yeah, I don't know. Okay.

between an ultra-thin phone and a flip, between an ultra-thin phone and a flip-style foldable, what do you think most people should get? Hmm. That's a fantastic question. If it's between those two, I mean, it's just frustrating, because I just, I wish,

I feel like flip-phone design, at least in the US, right, where there's really only two players, has not, kept up with the advancements we've seen on like book style foldables like larger style foldables where you know this year's flip seven i feel like was really the first time that a device got noticeably slimmer over its yes predecessors like the razors you know we're on gen three of the modern the modern razor um you know after after reviving it in 2023 and not you know there were a

couple before that but i'm saying that i feel like that was the first really successful uh flip phone from Razor and or from Motorola. And, you know, I, I, they're still like 13 millimeters, right? And they're not light. Like I, you know, the flip seven is 20, 25, 30 grams heavier than the, than the edge. So you're, you're not really. And again, that's the slimmest, uh, flip phone you can buy in the US right now. Um, I really think that like, the answer is flip phones, but not today's flip phones. It's like two or three. years from now when the design trends that we've seen on book style foldables can catch up on flip style devices and you start looking at, you know, 10 millimeters when closed, sub 10 millimeters when

closed, I think is really when that starts to feel like, well, yeah, it's, it's lighter and thinner and it takes up so little space in my pocket. But we, you know, today it's tricky where I still would probably recommend a flip phone if somebody's concerned about size or whatever, but with a lot more caveats. I don't know. I feel like I'm the opposite. I would, personally, I would rather use the S-25 edge than is the Z-F-Fu-7 or Z-FuP-7. Like, genuinely, I would prefer the S-Fupefxed. Samsung software experience on the flip is rough too. It's a problem. Yeah. I have mostly used Motorola's, so in my head, I'm like, yeah, you have all the power of, of the Motorola flip or cover screen experience, which is much more built out than Samsung's.

I just think the kind of person who's going to use a flip phone would probably be better served regardless with a slab. I just think, I think you pay, you, I think the, like I say, it feels like a halfway product because you get barely any of the benefits of a regular foldable because you don't get that usable out of screen. You have that tiny little screen on the outside. And I'm only, again, this is my inherent bias for seeing people out using this. It tends to be people of a certain vintage who are using these flip phones.

they probably managed to get them on a decent deal and then they have a tiny screen that they can't necessarily use accurately so they constantly have to open the phone anyway I just think at that point in time get a decent case yeah get a decent phone get a decent case so I am probably going to be

teamed in rather than team flip that's fair genuinely think I'm teamed in and obviously the more I hear about the iPhone air obviously I picked up the 17 Pro Max to kind of understand what's going on I kind of wish I'd have gone for the air

Abner's like selling me on it I'm all I have I have a buy iPhone air tab open and I'm like, I'm nerd. Like I don't, I don't have a thousand dollars to spare for this, but you're kind of convincing me. It's, but this is, this is where like, this is where we may be in a position where we have seen so much device, so many devices. We've seen so much of the space that we're almost, I don't want to say jaded, but the new thing is the interesting thing. But the average person is just going to go, and I hate the term average person, but I don't know, Janine from Massachusetts, she's going to go and pick up an iPhone 17, the base model.

She doesn't care. Can I take a good photo? The battery can last all day. That's it. I don't care. They don't care. Or the base pixel 10. Like,

overlooking the, overlooking the flaws that we're going to pick out. Like, we're going to go through the weeds and really go for it. So maybe the, maybe the, the market has kind of spoken that we,

thin phones are their Apple's game now, if that makes sense. I don't know. I don't know. I'm interested to see what you guys think, if I'm right or wrong there. Yeah, I'm just... Okay, let's say

if the iPhone A ends up being a market success, Samsung has to try again, won't it? Like, it's going to be awkward when they re-enter that space. Who does it first, though? Who does it first? Does Samsung go back in, or do you think somebody else will do it?

Because Google are not going to do it. No, I don't think it was going to do it. Motor? Samsung would have to completely rethink because the other thing, and I noticed this because I have this tab open, but I completely forgot that Apple undercut the edge by $100.

The iPhone error is a thousand. The S-25 edge is $1,100, right? So, and I don't think many people are shopping between the two, you know, but I do think that price matters to the consumer, where even if you're doing monthly payments, you see the difference between a three-figure and a four-figure number. And, you know, Samsung really kind of wrote themselves and do a corner on this one because they couldn't price it at $1,000 because of the, Plus. So there's like, again, this kind of comes back to like this should have launched alongside

the rest of the S25 series, which they were about to do, but then they're not going to anymore. So I don't know. I think Samsung, if they're going to pull out of this market, and I do think there's a chance, I want to say, you know, that all of this fizzles out and the S26 edge launches as intended, you know, whatever. But like, I really think the only way for Samsung to do this is to, one, really think about what this phone needs to be in a way that I think Apple did. And I'm not sure Samsung really, really sat down and put the entire thought through. And two, it needs to launch as like its own. So if they reenter this market, it needs to be a like, it's here, it's right now, it's at a fair price, here you go. That's what I think. Yeah. I guess one more iPhone thing is,

so Apple would use a cross-body strap. They, yeah. I am. told it is a popular, popular trend. Yeah. I would never do. I mean, obviously, I live in the UK, but in London, phone transaction is out of control. So I would not even risk it. But at the same time, it's like, I don't know how, like, to me, even though I get lots of devices to test and, and stuff like that, to me, a phone is still a tool. I don't see it as like a lifestyle thing. So I do, I would wouldn't advertise the fact that I have X phone or Y phone with a body, like a cross-body strap. I'd rather put it in a, because I carry a, I've started carrying a little kind of clutch back. Like it's a bell-ro, look at a little Belroy thing. I put my phones in there if I'm

going to do that. Yeah, like a little sidebag kind of thing. Like, I would rather do that than, and carry multiple things than have potentially that back then my phone. Do you know what mean? Yeah, exactly. You're the same thinking. If I'm putting the cross-body strap for the iPhone or any other phone is just for that phone. There are no additional pockets to put anything else like AirPods or pixel buds or whatever. It's interesting. But do you see people using crossball straps in the world? I have definitely noticed the pickup.

I don't know. I've seen people using it as a camera strap, which I think is fantastic. I think if you can use it for multiple purposes. But I don't know. I get the, yeah, I don't, I don't want to talk on behalf of people who would do it. but I feel that there's some cool accessories that Apple seems to tie. Apple seems to do this,

but a little better than anybody else. They kind of get into the zeitgeist and they can create these new accessory lineups that nobody else seems to be able to do. And maybe Samsung wouldn't be able to do this anyway because the product was not marketed at the right people. It was just, hey, here's a thin phone. Whereas the air feels like it does feel like a lifestyle accessory

and that if you choose it, you were choosing to have something that is a trink, kit as opposed to be all end up. And maybe the design choice of the iPhone 17 Pro has helped push people towards the air, i.e. it's a rugged, the most rugged looking iPhone. It's the most Android of all iPhones, to be quite honest with you. I mean, it's filled of bugs. So there's all these little things that are at play here that maybe we're overlooking. I don't know. Yeah. Let's touch on the 17 Pro actually. You've been using it. How have you been thinking about? the design and all that.

What do you want to know? Do you want to know about the experience? Because the experience has been horrendous. I've never had, I've never experienced a more bug-ridden version of iOS in my life. I went through a phase I used, I think my first iPhone was original. Then I went to the 3G when that came available because 3G was rolling out in the UK. So I have had experience of iPhones in the past. It was only when the Nexus 4 came out that I switched to Android.

So it's quite a while. And then I kind of had one every few years. I was like, I'll let's see what's going on on iOS. But compared to last year, which felt like a, it's the iPhone 14, but with,

sorry, the iPhone 15, but with maybe slightly smaller bezels and a slightly different color. This feels like, I think, I mean, liquid glass is a mess,

to be honest with you. But the bugs that I'm getting are out of control. It's horrendous. It's literally like using, it's like using a, I don't know, touch was era

Samsung at times just UI elements that don't seem finished things, random pop-ins but the hardware's nice so I don't know yeah

I can hey the hardware is good the software's terrible but the hardware is that it seems so much more utilitarian than past ones and it's been interesting how you would

like I think the critique unfairly or fairly robbed against Apple is that they are a form over function company and to me this I the 17 Pro breaks that it's so much more utilitarian in anything that came before and it's interesting how people how some people are criticizing them for it being so on Apple like whatever it is a shift and I think in their design priorities or whatever but anyways yeah the the how they're raining the camera. It's, I think the best reason I've seen for why they don't want to put it in a pixel

style in a row, something like lens switching. They don't want it to be too drastic when you switch between lenses. So I guess there's that. That thick rectangle, that elevated plateau on the back. It's, and we've seen what, what, Xiaomi was it, that put the screen on? it? Yeah. That's interesting. That is... I do, it does feel like I say, utilitarian is the best way you've described it. It's very strange to see an iPhone that looks like this. This is a very, it's like a culture shock because as I say, I do, I mean, I'm not going to put words in the mouths of any of the engineers at Kupertino, but there is definitely, there is a hundred percent something that has gone on there

and they've looked at what's going on on this side of the fence, the open meadow, as it were, rather than the walled garden. They've had a peek over the wall, and they've seen devices doing different things, and I don't think that's probably happened before. I would love to know how much, I mean, we'll never know, but how much influence the camera bar of the pixel has kind of been, I guess, drawn upon to an extent.

I think it's, the camera bar really stands out, on the pixel. And I think that's one of the good things that Google needs to keep leaning into. The camera route, it does look. I've heard people say, iconic, I wouldn't go that far just yet. I think it's iconic.

I think it's iconic among, among tech users. And I think it stands out in a way that even, even non-enthusious, even if they don't know it's a pixel, they know it's not an iPhone, which I don't think is true

of every other phone. Even Samsung is so anonymous and it's designed that I think people, maybe they know it's not an iPhone, but they don't really pay attention. I think at least the pixel's camera bar grabs your attention.

Yeah, so that the design it annoys the hell out of me that it's not, that the camera lens on all these devices, they're not flat like the pixel. That is genuinely annoying. Camera control.

We all have iPhones with camera control. How have we been using that? I honestly thought... I don't. Oh, you don't? I don't. No, I wouldn't. That button is useless. I use it as a shortcut to the camera. Yeah, too. That's it. Yeah. If I'm taking a photo, I'm touching that shutter button.

I'm not touching the camera control. No, I don't. I go straight into the screen. Yeah, it's the biggest waste of time I think I've ever seen in tech. It's one of the worst things I think Apple's ever introduced to a product. Yeah. The double press, I set mine to whenever you double press it, it opens the camera even when it's off. That has been the primary way. I launch it, so it's exactly the pixel power button.

Again, that's somewhat because how on the pixel, the power button, which I still think is too narrow, is what's double pressing? Yeah, the cameras is double pressing, long presses theory, versus a double press on the iPhone launching wallet, though the pixel has added that option too. But yeah, it's camera control, I don't know

I don't zoom I don't really zoom with it but again I only have one lens so yeah camera control I think it's a strange one because it's like and I do think Apple does this better

than anybody other companies they'll they'll kind of like you say form of a function a little bit they will persevere with something that doesn't seem to be a success to just see how far they can go down the road with it and eventually it becomes something either useful or they just

say, hey, we're going to get rid of it, 3D touch, the touch ID, which I think was a sensible decision in the long term. I don't think camera control will stay around indefinitely. I think that they probably will make it like a, I don't know, I don't really know actually in hindsight, because this feels very much like when I'm holding this phone right now, which sadly the listener out there can't see, the iPhone 17 Pro Max feels like it is gearing up to be the the central rig of a camera system. They're leaning into cinematography. They're leaning into videography in ways

that nobody else is really trying to do. And this feels like maybe we'll keep the camera controls for the in air quotes pro videographers out there. But at the same time, I just can see them cutting it short, cutting the losses, because you cannot mimic physical camera controls with capacitive buttons in the same way

that you need that tactile feedback. I can, Apple would be better off partnering with a company and making a cage that has all those controls where you plug it in by USBC, you get access to shutter controls, like aperture, all that kind of stuff. I actually don't think they're above that. I think they would.

I think they can do that. They've done niche, super expensive niche accessories for the Mac line. I don't see a reason they don't do it. And Damien, I agree with you. They, you know, I've been watching a lot of, a lot of American football. and the iPhone ad I've seen the most

is the one they showed at the end of their event or the end of the iPhone section of their event which is 30 seconds of like people making movies with the iPhone. That is the ad I have seen the most and I think it really stands out. It's so interesting, isn't it? Because the vast majority of people

will never use it that way. No, absolutely not. And yet that's how they're selling the pro. It's really interesting. thing. I do wonder what happens. Because obviously, Google, tying it back into Google and Pixel a little bit, they obviously have the, what are the group or boy group called, whoever the band is that they had, who made their brief music video with the Pixel. Oh, Jonas Brothers. Jonas Brothers. Jonas Brothers, yeah. I do wonder how much longer Google will sit on the sidelines

with regards to their video efforts. I think they need the chip. They need the chip to process this And I will get a log profile, I'm sure. We'll get in there with the stills. The stills is still right up there. It needs to be on device. The cloud thing is really just not taking off. People, it's, they want it immediately. We need to get,

Google needs to get that into the heads. I agree. As much as, that or the cloud doesn't, the benefits aren't obvious enough. I think that's what people, what people are finding or saying. So,

The only thing I could think is that you could do a reverse video boost, i.e., this sounds ridiculous. You shoot the video, it goes off to the cloud, it then becomes its own really high-end log profile, flat profile, and you can add effects after the fact. I don't know, that's the spitballing and talking rubbish, but... No, I... It feels like such a bandage solution, like a bandage solution, of like, that was okay for a generation, but like we're now on two generations of it. And it was really, video boost was really

announced with, you know, the, the pixel eight. It just didn't ship then. So like, it's, it's just like, guys, you've known this is a problem with your chips for several years now. Like, you know, I wrote, I wrote this thing last weekend about, about how, um, the software is my favorite part of pixel, not the hardware and my, my feelings about tensor. And like one of my notes was like, okay, but like setting aside how I feel like, you know, tensor problems are maybe a little overblown by enthusiasts, video recording is a problem. They need to fit.

They need to meet the modern standard. It is weird that they can't do, you know, 4K60 at 10-bit HDR even. Like they got to catch up here. Yeah. Yeah, I guess it all ties back into the fact that Apple are trying to do this cohesive thing and market to the kind of people that Pixar just count right now.

and Samsung, to a lesser extent, can't. And that's insane to think that arguably the biggest player on Android is not able to do that in the same way, even though they're very impressive in their own right. And Samsung log is pretty good. But you are just never going to, I just cannot ever see somebody using a Samsung phone in a cage with black magic camera running,

recording to the Atmos, like Ninja. Like, I just can't see it happening. Whereas with Apple, they have geared their products up to do it. It's absolute, it's, it's a reality. It's absolute reality that ad is not, the ad captures something that's happening in professional settings all the time. 28 years later, shot on iPhone, you know? Like, it's, that stuff's out there.

Yeah. At times you could tell. And that's fair. I mean, obviously was, was supposed to recreate the look of 28 days later. But, but like, and I agree with you, but it's. it's still like a big, you're not hearing that about, and films have been shot on iPhone for a decade now, and you don't hear about that.

Like, there's no shot on pixel movie distributed by, you know, a major studio. Honestly, the way that Google is going, it's going to be AI movies before you're getting a pixel shot on pixel. Which I don't like that. I want them to be doing it with the hardware. Like, the idea that AI is this band-aid or plaster to cover everything is just, I don't think it worked. I just do not think.

I think for some things, yeah, and I think that pro-resume is a very good example of that. I think pro-resume at times can be fantastic. And I was worried about it and skeptical. And, yeah, hey, the amount of squirrel pictures I've taken while taking my dog-for-walk is insane. And I probably should be, yeah, I'll probably be on a register for taking pictures of squirrels.

But I feel like it all comes back to the fact that, and then tying it back into the air as well, is just the fact that Apple has understood where they're going to place their product. Everyone else is kind of like less inclined to do that research. Apple, even if this ends up being a one generation device for Apple, they'll take the information and be like, okay, we can do a foldable for X, Y, Z for this. Like they will have the, they will back it with data, whereas everyone else has kind of got throw things at the wall and see what happens.

and that's probably what is what the S-25 edge signifies to me is that, and now we're probably not going to get this S-26-H because Samsung is thrown at the wall and, yeah, there's no sticky aspect of it. Everything they've done has been to kind of test the waters and they're never going to learn anything from that experiment. I hope they do. I'm probably going to be proven wrong now.

Now I've said it out loud, but it just feels very much like that. So I've to wrap up a few more things. actually one more small tangent on the pixel night sight has been their greatest thing the buzz they got with night sight that genuinely pixel two pixel three it was the standout of my pixel two

be absolute standout to me I'm waiting for what the next one is pro as zoom is the closest but I don't think it has gotten to that awareness. It's, I don't know. Every year I keep hoping that we'll see something along those veins, but I don't know what the next thing will be.

Do you think Zoom enhanced, do you think Zoom and Hans kind of diminished a little bit of the goodwill towards ProRo Zoom? We were expecting Zoom enhanced for so long. It took a year and it was, I mean, it ended up being a Google Photos feature, right? Yeah, which was so disappointing. thing. They never said it was going to be Google Photos feature at launch. We thought it was all built with a camera. Yeah. Very disappointing.

I guess just to one last thing about me getting a new iPhone after four years, the button, the name forgets me now. Action button? Action button. Action button. How have we been using that? I've used it to watch Google Hens. Flashly. Mine launches

FlashLenai Live. You guys both have more unique takes on mine. Mine is literally just, I want, I always want a hardware shortcut for a flashlight because it's a full little feature. And like my pixel 10 is set up the same way where I have, I think it's called FlashDim. I can't remember, I believe it's called FlashDim,

but it allows you to use the accessibility feature to double, or to click both volume buttons at the same time and that turns the flashlight on. But that's my, my go-to thing. I mean, Abner, you've already brought up your concerns with camera control. I remember when I reviewed the iPhone 16 Pro Max, I found that much how the action button was too limiting, the camera control was too much. And I keep waiting for them to fix either of those problems where the action button doesn't do enough and the camera control doesn't, or does way

too much. And we're now two generations and one generation respectively into them. And they have not fix this. They have not, they have not solved the problem. I don't know if you guys feel the same way, but yeah, it's, the rumor is that because the camera control is such an expressive component, they're going to rest in the functionality and keep it, but they're still going to use it to be able to launch the app and probably as a shutter, but maybe they remove the swipy stuff or whatever. Yeah, I think that'd be fine. Yeah. So I guess to, to tie it back to Android, all of those two things, of action button of camera control

which comes to let's say the pixel for the sake of this podcast and the thing about customizable buttons double tap on the pixel is absolute trash it never

the bloody works it's annoying I don't use that to achieve that would be the best way to do it I think I have no qualms with an action button

I think we had a shutter on Experia phones for a while right, Xperi have done it for pretty much since her inception. I don't know. I think, I guess the clue is in the name a little bit with the pixel. Did they potentially have a shutter button for it being a camera-focused device technically?

That would be my guess. From its inception. Yeah. I think, I think in general shortcut buttons are what we're going to see more. You know, we've seen One-plus implement them. We've seen Motorola implement them. But, you know, especially with AI. But I think Google already has, like, it's AI thing figured out with the home or with the power button.

I think I could see them adding a shutter button well before they added another key that is there to do things, like whatever you want it to be. I would see a shutter button first. But I also could see them not adding any additional buttons for generations to come and just keeping it with what they have right now. I do like that everything is on one side. that kind of noise about the iPhone. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, definitely.

But I mean, to kind of tie again once more to the S-25-Eged and lack of S-26 edge, I just, we don't expect Google to do any thin phones because we expect it to be the same design or very, very similar design next year. So anybody out there wishing for a thinner pixel 10, pixel 11, is it? Pixel 11, pixel 11. I'm sorry to tell you that that probably isn't going to happen. So unless we get a, unless something happens, drastically in the next 12 months, expect more of the same, and maybe we'll get to learn some

more with something leaks and whatnot in the next few months. But yeah, that's the end of the S-26 edge, I guess, one and done, which sometimes is always the best way to go. I want to say thanks guys for joining me. It's been a lovely chat talking about random bits and pieces, Android, iOS, pixel, you name it. We've covered it all today. Yeah, thanks again, guys. And we're We'll hopefully speak to the next one. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to Pixelated, a 9 to 5 Google podcast.

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