Pixelated - Much Ado About Nothing

Episode Date: July 3, 2025

Welcome to episode 60 of Pixelated, a podcast by 9to5Google. This week, Damien, Abner, and Will talk through Nothing's latest launch event, including the company's first flagship Android phone, the Nothing Phone (3). From its divisive design to its new Glyph Matrix display, there's a lot to take in, as the company seemingly pivots towards a more premium market. The trio also speculate on what Gemini's new four-color icon could mean for the future of Google as a company. Is this simply about aligning the logo with Google's standard theming, or does it tell us something about where Search and Gemini are headed in the future? Subscribe YouTube Podcasts Pocket Casts Spotify Apple Podcasts Overcast Hosts Abner Li Damien Wilde Will Sattelberg Read more Hands-on: Nothing Phone (3) is the start of a new chapter, but it’s not a ‘true flagship’ Nothing Headphone (1) launches July 15 for $299 with wild design, up to 80-hour battery Is the Nothing Phone (3) the right device for a US debut? I’m not sure Gemini sparkle icon getting the four-color Google treatment Listen to more 9to5 Podcasts 9to5Mac Happy Hour Electrek The Buzz Podcast Space Explored Rapid Unscheduled Discussions Feedback? Drop us a line at [e-mail], leave a comment on the post, or reach out to our producer.

Gentlemen, I have just come back from a little launch event. I say a little launch event. It felt like a big launch event for a small company, but nothing phone three. I want to hear your guys' impressions of this device ahead of time because I went in completely blind. I didn't even see any leaks. So I was so head down with what I'm doing.

So the back, the back is a lot. The back looks like a face sort of. and I don't know how I feel about it. I still don't. After looking at these images, especially hands-on images, it just works a bit much. Yeah. What do you think of getting rid of the glyph?

Because that was the first thing that struck me straight away. Like, I was surprised that they effectively said, we're getting rid of this USP and we're going for a, I don't know, it feels like, I don't know if you guys, you know the me fit bands. Do you remember those little Xiaomi bands? It almost like they've stuck an equivalent of one of those on the back of the phone, which I know Xiaomi did a few years ago with the 10 Ultra or 11 Ultra, I think it was.

So I don't know. It feels like one foot in one camp and another foot in like, I don't know, anywhere that they could possibly go if that makes sense. So my primary experience with the lights is when we were at I.O. and Jordan had his, what, 3A. And every time he did anything, the back would light up. And I thought that was a bit disarming and again, a bit much. What did they replace it with exactly?

So let me show you. So this is basically, sadly for everybody out there, you can't see me doing this. I'm trying to put this little LED screen to the camera. Circular. Is it proper circular or is it just a square in a circle? It's kind of circular. I mean, I don't. really understand the utility of it. It's kind of cool. It's a gimmick. I mean,

Carpeg came out and said it's not a gimmick straight away. It's a gimmick. Like, it's a gimmick. It's can be good. Like, I know, I feel like gimmick is often used as like a pejorative, but like it can, like a gimmick can be a good thing. Now, I don't know if this is a good thing. It's, it's, it's anytime a phone does something like this, right? So like, obviously the glyph lights previously and, and, um, you know, even dating back to like the, the, the early like LG like V10 and V20 and they're like little ticker displays. I'm always like these are these are neat interesting ideas that don't really go anywhere and end up not really being any more useful than just an always on display.

Like it's it's just like a different usually smaller less powerful version of an always on display that makes me go like okay well I don't really need this though if the phone hasn't always on display because it's going to give me the same information but I don't have to put the display down on a table where it might get scratched. I don't have to like, you know, center in on this little screen on the back. I can just look at, you know, I can glance over to the device. I don't know. Like, it screams gimmick to me, you know, at a way that I think, obviously, they don't want

it to seem that way. But I don't know how else to describe it. But what can it do? Okay, so the people who had previous nothing phones and who have now, lost the GIF display if they're upgrading to this one. Does anything gain, anything lost, really? I'm going to say, yeah, you've lost a bit of utility. I mean, I was a big fan of the glyph.

I was a big fan of the glyph, not even from the light-up aspect of it in terms of like you get a notification and it kind of, it kind of startles you with the brightness. I thought it was really good for a soft light for video and as a soft light for photos. I think it was the best flash in terms of like coverage.

Does that make sense? Like it bloomed a little bit more, if that makes sense. So it made things a little bit softer. So certain images look really good, considering the camera hardware wasn't as up to date as some of the other, in-air quotes, flagship phones, which I actually hate that term. I mean, that kind of like ties into what they're trying to do.

They're trying to sell this as the different, in-air-quotes, flagship phone again. But I'm like, I think that term is starting to lose all meaning now. I think we've reached a point where you can call something. I guess it is their flagship in their own lineup. But in terms of the wider industry, where does this sit? It feels like this is the only way that you can grab the attention of the, I don't want to say the TikTok generation, but the TikTok generation might be like, oh, wow, this looks so cool.

It's going to look good on social media. But ironically, ironically, that generation would be better served by the glyph lights for the exact same reason that you're describing, which is that they have like an actual utility to like, I'm shooting on TikTok. now my phone has like a built-in like light to to illuminate my face and then also you know putting aside a little bit what I just said but it's like okay if all of these things are gimmicks then at the very least the lights were like a visually distinct gimmick that would catch people's attention in a way that like even if all it was was a cool looking thing I don't feel like the little display on the back of this is like really cool looking I don't expect anyone to like

you're not going to notice it on the subway in the same way that you might, you know, if someone was using like a nothing phone 3A and you suddenly see it flash when they're holding it. Like you will notice that. So I don't know. I also think it just kind of loses nothing's identity just, but for no real gain. So my first thought, straight after the event, speaking to a few people who do YouTube and stuff like that and kind of like people in the media. And the first thing I thought was when they show. So there's an option, basically there's a capacitive button here, which is the extra

you tool for this. So you press this capacitive button, you tap it a few times and you can switch between, I think they're called, I want to call them glyph toys, I may be wrong. I just call it the glyph LED. I don't think it's actually called that. And there is one where you can see effectively like a pixel image of the viewfinder. Yeah. And my first thought was in the briefing, or sorry, in the branding for this, they've been

show, so this is currently, just so you guys can see. Basically, you can kind of see what it looks like in your surroundings. My first initial thought was Game Boy Camera, Game Boy Color Camera. They were showing that in the pre-release and post-release, kind of, we're trying to make tech fun slides. And I'm like, yeah, but that was fun because at the time we didn't have technology that surpassed it quite drastically. Right.

So it's almost like, we're going to make it fun by dragging you back in time, which is probably like 25 years since the game by color camera came out, maybe, and 27 years maybe. God, I'm sure my age as well. It's like fun for the sake of fun is great,

but the time frame that something stays fun is, therefore, becomes a gimmick, right? So I'm trying to quantify everything, right? But it just makes no sense. It's really challenging to like just recreate that sense. right like you can you can allow old technology to come back uh you know into style on its own right like we've seen this a lot like i uh last year went to uh weezer's blue album tour right and uh there was a person like three there was like a you know 20 young 20 something uh guy like three rows in front of us

that was taking photos on a 3DS right which was a trend for a bit like a TikTok trend but like if if like tomorrow someone tried to essentially just take the game out of the game console out of the 3DS and make like a 3D camera. It would be it wouldn't sell no one would buy it right those retro trends have to come into vogue on their own and so for it doesn't totally work with the nothing phone where I'm like okay but like nobody's actually going to like want anything yeah and like the commitment to buying a phone just for that, that's not a thing people do. Exactly. It's the fact that you, it feels like they're cramming that button, that capacity

button where you cycle through the various functions, that just seems overkill. That, I don't know, that just, you, it's, it, these secondary displays, these AODs, the best ones just show information without you thinking about it having to cycle to various functions like a like a smart watch that's wild and not in a good way it's it's i mean to the credit i guess to nothing's credit we are that's the first thing we talk about but it's i don't think it serves you throughout the life of a phone if you're but if you're actually buying this for over and using it for over a year. Okay, so that's the back, that's design, I think.

Well, yeah, let's talk about the back design a little bit more because I think we've, in the interest of fairness, I think there is a lot of things I really do think that nothing has doubled down on in terms of their design. And they've done something that, I think in the media and especially influencer circles and things that, people will be highly critical that all phones look the same. And when something different comes along, the first thing everybody wants to try and do is trying to tear it down, which is rightfully so. I think if you put something out there, you want people to buy it, you want it to be critiqued, that's how you improve a product. And let's not make a mistake.

Nothing has been making products for a couple of years now, at least five years now. The identity of what nothing we're doing before with the glyph lighting, I think it did stand out apart from, a stand apart, sorry, from the crowd. because they had something that, yes, a lot of people will look at it, oh, it's a gimmick, it's stupid, but a lot of people genuinely shock and all. It's ritrie. Yeah, yeah, kind of. Yeah, kind of. But I feel like this time around, like, I mean, I'm kind of showing you again,

but everything feels almost remixed and there is, I will give them credit for trying it. I don't know how I feel about design. I do like that there's certain little touches. It definitely feels a little, it genuinely feels a little more generic in a weird way. than the previous versions. I think Notting Phone 1 really did look very different to anything else that's out of the time. We've seen a few of the, I think it was,

I don't want to name, put any other brand under the bus, but I'm pretty sure a couple of years ago at MWC, somebody tried to make their own version of the phone one with the glyph lighting, and it kind of didn't quite work the same way. Yeah. But to ditch that so quickly is not, I don't know if that's a good sign.

I know they're going for this really like industrial style design, mixed with, I guess, it feels a little bit Starfield, like the game in a weird way. I think the boggly cameras, I don't know, I don't know, I don't know the justification for that because the periscopes up in the top left and then the main, I think the main one's just beneath it. And it means when you're using the camera, there is a definite shift. You can see when you switch to that three-time zoom, I think it's a three-time zoom. I could be wrong.

As soon as you switch that, you can see there's a shift. like almost to the right of the main image. And that's quite jarring. And I wonder why that was the case. And I'm sure Calpe will have a YouTube video discussing that with his team and gaining millions of views on that. But we don't get a clear answer

until they're ready to give us a clear answer. But I just want to ask you what you guys think of this layout. I know you said it looks a little bit like a face, I see a face. Yeah, I see the camera's eyes that red square in between. is the nose. I don't know what to make about the top camera and the display at the light. It's just, it just seems like a lot.

It's like a face made to look like a Picasso painting. It's what it looks like. It's like very like segmented. You know what I mean? It's interesting. I actually, I hadn't clicked on this until listening. to explain your way through it, Damien, but I wonder if the reason that this phone in general has seen such a larger amount of backlash compared to like the 2A and the 3A series designs,

which the 3A specifically also had some criticism, but I think far of us. I think it's because the lights kind of justified the odd layout that nothing would often use for the back of its phone, right? Like, you could kind of, if the camera was in a weird spot, you could kind of explain it away by being like, oh, well, like, you know, it's, it's so that the lights can, can circle and go around all of these components. And without the lights, it ends up just kind of looking like it's designed this way to look different, but for no other reason. And because you can't, like, assign meaning to it, you end up just, I think, I think everybody's knee jerk reaction, even if you come around on the design. And I have come around a little bit on the design since it first leaked,

but I think your knee-jerk reaction, and part of it is also just the different, the change of it all, but like is, no, this looks bad. It doesn't look, I don't understand why it looks like this, therefore it looks bad. Yeah, and I think as well, though, look just, when we talk about this little glyph LED section in the top, like, you would ordinarily expect a camera to be there, or something of that type. Yeah. I wonder how much R&D has gone into this, little extra display at the cost of everything else. Like shoo-horn this shoe-horning this in, and I'm looking at the top of the section and anyone out there, if you get the opportunity, we'll leave some link in the show notes

to our coverage. There is basically three, well, what looks like room for three circular areas at the top of the phone, they're like almost sectioned off. And then all of a sudden, the periscope cameras, like, slightly justified down a little bit. and it's almost at the very, very edge of the bezel. And I wonder if they wanted to put all of the camera in one area and couldn't do it. And then they're like, okay, we're going to have to have to try and find a way to make this fit. I'm not going to, I'm only speculating.

We'll probably get a better answer from some, hopefully, from nothing themselves as to why it looks like that. There is, yeah, there's enough loss of identity, but I do think this stands out ridiculous compared to anything else. Like, if I showed my partner this already, and she was like, what the hell is wrong with this? Like, what is wrong with your phone? Which is a weird reaction to have. But, like, I guess reactions like that are going to create the buzz or the lack of, like, the kind of things that other brands would be desperate for in some ways. Yeah, but Motorola releases a phone, right?

You get that reaction, and you ask somebody who has it, why it is like that. and you don't have an answer. It's just the answers. Do you need to give an answer, right? Do you need to have an answer for it? I guess Motorola can release a regular phone and most people just won't bat an eyelid. It's like, oh, how much is it?

I guess there's going to be a lot of, in Airquots, column inches for this phone because the design is so striking, rightly or wrongly, people will find it good, bad, they're indifferent to it. Yeah, I just want to give, I just want to give. them credit for even trying something different because we can be highly critical that all friends look the same. I think, yeah, it would be very, very interesting to see why they've gone down this route and not put the money, the other R&D money into somewhere else in the device, because at the front, it's pretty by the numbers from the front. So at least the

back's a bit different, I guess. I'm curious if this is going to kind of shoot themselves in the foot, too, because we've spent, you know, the first 15 minutes of this podcast being, you know, fairly we mixed to negative on the overall design of this phone, yet reading through, you know, Ben's hands on on the site. Like, it's very, it sounds like a pretty good phone, all things considered. Like, we've gotten so caught up on the design, but then it's like, but yeah, the rest of the devices actually seems pretty good. I mean, the sum of its parts are great. Like, you look at it and you think, I mean, I do think maybe the price could come down a little bit, but in terms of like the actual what you get on offer here, it's pretty down solid in a lot of ways.

And it's almost like just a tiny, pulling back a little bit from the ridiculous changes they've tried to make at the back and sticking with Glyffe and maybe doing something slightly different with it and reducing their own costs as well because they've done the R&D on it. They could have put a little bit more money into it and made this that in Air Quotes, out and out flagship that they really, really want it to be. But it's almost like they nothing a little bit kind of, how would I describe it? they inhibit themselves to try and be like, oh, no, no, you don't need the latest and crazy. But it's like, yeah, but if you spent less on the R&D for this ridiculous little LED that probably some people are going to use twice, like you could have maybe

had a little bit extra left over to put that Snapdragon 8 elite chip in there. I don't know. Again, I'm speculating wildly there. What do you guys think of the specifications, so? Because for a phone of this kind of price point, feels on par. Maybe you might get a little bit more money if you went with someone else at One Plus or

even maybe some of the base model Samsung phones. I don't know if you're playing it conservatively. I think it's probably a touch. It's not really overpriced, but I do think it's at the absolute, like, top of its budget. I think if this had been even like $50 more, we'd be like, why is anybody spending $850 on this? I do think it's going to, you know, obviously I think it's fascinating, and I wrote an editorial

about this yesterday, but I think it's fascinating that this is kind of the, this is not their first U.S. launched a phone, but it feels like the one they're like really pushing to be a success in the U.S., like more so than the nothing phone too. I think that's really interesting in like kind of a wrongheaded way where I don't expect this to really connect with users who have never. heard of this company and I would I would hazard to guess that most uh U.S. consumers have not heard of nothing. Like I don't think they have a particularly large amount of brand awareness here, which is another reason I think sticking with the glyph lights would have helped because they could have

built that to be their brand identity in the way that like the camera bar is the pixels identity or the camera in general is the pixel's identity. I feel like you could have had this core design that reaches across every single one of their products. So you could point to it and be like, this is what a nothing phone is. But instead, it's this new thing that doesn't really build on anything that came before. So as much as $800 is like a pretty okay price for what's on offer, I also don't expect it, at least in the US to move a particularly large amount of numbers. Like it's a lot of money to drop on a device that you're, you know, you're not going to be able

to buy on discount through a carrier store or something. I feel like they could have gave away a pair of any area. Buds and that would have been perfect. And I feel like that might be the way to do it. Yeah, just even, even if only for like a month or two, like even, even for like an early, early pre-order, early order type thing like like, like, you know, we'll give you this bonus. And, you know, it convinces you to maybe think a little bit more about nothing as an ecosystem as opposed to this just being like a slightly different looking phone.

Yeah, I think you made a really, really good point. I kind of wanted to touch on it a little bit is that in the, the shadow of what Google are doing with Pixel. Yeah. Like, I think this is one of those phones that, I mean, let's be completely honest, the Venn diagram of people who liked OnePlus, the old One Plus and Pixel, nothing is kind of like in that middle, right? Exactly.

Of that Venn diagram. I think this could push people the potential biopool away who were interested, especially those in the US that maybe aren't willing to kind of, I'm not going to say compromise because I really like Oxygen OS now. They don't want to compromise with Oxygen OS. They maybe don't want to spend as much money on the pixel because, let's be completely honest, Tensor isn't probably where it should be at this point in time. And we're hoping for that big quantum leap.

If you're a spechead, this probably did hit a lot of the beats. And that price, like I say, maybe puts people off a tiny, tiny bit. And again, tying into what you said about the iconic, I say iconic. It's a camera bar iconic. Are we fair in saying that? I think it's iconic. Do you think it's iconic? People, I think people recognize, like even outside,

of the tech world, I think general consumers can see that camera bar and like identify it as at least like a Google phone. Like they might not know pixel. They might not know the specific pixel model, but they will see that the camera bar has been around long enough that I think it has become, you know, that is the thing. That's the thing Google makes. I think that's pretty widespread. Yeah, but this is why I feel like they're not going to get that with this. And I've just looked it up. It's called the glyph matrix. Nobody's going to be looking and saying, oh, that's a glyph matrix. I mean, you were at the launch event and you had no, I can't remember.

I can't remember what he's called, no. I can't remember what it's called. I know Glyph is in there. They want to keep the Glyph name around, but they don't want to keep it doing what it does the best, but I don't know. I think, yeah, there's some strange things here as well, obviously.

There are a smaller company as well, so they don't, it's launching with Android 15. We're expected to get Andrews, a version of nothing in Western Android 16 in September. We then have Pixel 10 to contend with coming up, in what, maybe six weeks time, eight weeks time. It's a very confusing launch because there's a lot of other factors, I think that nothing doesn't have a hand in.

And yeah, the price has probably got to come down pretty down quickly, especially in the US when there are more people buying pixel phones, right? Yeah. The A series is flying. Yeah. Yeah, so I don't know. I don't know. With those optics, it does become a tougher cell.

But I think some of its parts pretty darn good. Again, I've only used it for a little while, and I don't have too many strong feelings at this point in time. But nothing OS is nice. If you're a person who likes the pixel version of Android, something that has a little bit of extra kind of visual flare, I really like the touches that they've made here and there. You can still customize the quick settings like you can in Android 16 QPR1,

which is interested in Android 15. Yeah, nothing OS is, it's pretty down solid. It does sometimes veer into, I don't want to say uncanny Valley, but I guess that's kind of what it is. It's like homage to what pixel are doing, but with a few like dot matrix LEDs

throwing in for good measure. Yeah. But yeah, it's pretty nice. The phone feels about what I expected. Their industrial design is very, very good. And that's something that I guess I want to give some credit to as well, because most phones come out, they're kind of cheap on some areas.

And then it feels terrible like you have a terrible screen, you have a terrible battery. Everything looks pretty solid in that respect. So hopefully the phone itself can perform well. That's the main thing. But I don't know. I want to get your thoughts, I'm now, because you are a staunch Pixel 9A person.

Is this the kind of device you'd be looking at and thinking I would potentially switch? Or are you so solely focus on Pixel 10 that this is not even in the rearview mirror, let alone. I was considering a nothing phone two last year, but the bigger screen sizes put me off. What's this 6.7? What?

67, I think it is. 6.67. Yeah, that's too big. Yeah, that's what also put me off the S-25 edge. But the software would be a non-issue to me, and that it's probably honestly a plus. The widgets are honestly interesting to me that industrial design, that visual design,

they have of the widgets, that kind of stuff interests me. but how's early days but what's the camera looking like have they addressed that from previous generation? Well, I have to say the camera seems okay so far. I would definitely say that pixel still veers into more normal, not normal, like natural, like a natural image. I do think the triple camera set up, so what I've played with so far has been pretty impressive. The Zoom is better than I expected, especially for, I guess it's a second periscope zoom. I know they did that with a 3A, so they've had time to play around with it. Do I think it will replace S-25 Ultra or Pixel 9 Pro in my pocket?

Probably not in terms of the camera, but I'm taking less photos as I'm getting older. Most of it's just food. So as long as it can take decent pictures of food, then I'll be happy. So I'll have to test that over the next couple of days and then see how it stacks up. But so far I've been a little bit impressed because the last time I used a nothing phone was a nothing phone too.

And it almost felt like that was a step in the right direction but not quite far enough. This feels like another half step again, but then we'll chop, we'll kind of throw some things away for no good reason. But it looks like a pretty solid foundation. I just hope that this isn't a blip that causes people to,

turn away fully. I think a lot of people I can see already the discourse is that they should have never steered clear of the midrange, but it's clear from what people want to buy. They want a top end phone that competes with the likes of Samsung and Google and one plus. So, yeah, it's a strange one. It's a strange time to release a phone as well. Well, I'm just frustrated. I feel like this is like design aside, like kind of a home run. If this is either same like exact sheet, $700 or $800 and you just bump it up to an Aet Elite. Like, I think it had to, it should pick one of those lanes. I don't think it's like going to make or break the phone, but I do think you have people

who are either a little more forgiving, you know, like, like nothing, people who are already nothing fans who are Android enthusiasts looking to try something new. I think are a little more forgiving of the ATAs Gen 4 at 700 or are more forgiving of the design if it's got that in the $800 price, if it's got the full eight elite, this thing's still going to run, you know, particularly with gaming,

run circles around like, tensor probably. But, you know, it's just, it feels for nothing to have spent months, I think this is like a full flagship, like their first full flagship.

It's just a little disappointing. I do think they, they'll get it down eventually. I do think we're, it's very, very slow. march towards a thousand dollar plus phone with all of the bells and whistles. And obviously the playbook is very,

very similar to that of the original One Plus, right? Even going down to the launch event being at the same event where Carl Pei and Pete Lau launched the 70 and 70 Pro at magazine London, which I found very interesting because his second, his last launch after that was the Nord. So, yeah, it's a very interesting playbook that they're kind of be following. But I'm excited to see what the fallout is. I want to hear and see other opinions because I think maybe I will be a little bit more

forgiving in that they've tried to do something different. But yeah, it is out there. It is completely out there. And I guess I kind of like that. Maybe we'll get something. I would love to see what nothing would do with the ridiculous foldable and probably put a full LED display on the front, like a pixel LED. display and do something stupid like that, that'll be hilarious.

Or maybe even just make a 3DS. That would be hilarious as well. But I wouldn't put it past Carl to have a prototype there because I know he's a big Game Boy and Pokemon fan, like myself. So we're kindred spirits in that regard. So in terms of what else they launched outside of the phone, the headphones.

Any thoughts on those, Damien? I haven't tried them, but I feel like they complement this. and the line up really well. It does feel like every single company has to follow the Apple Playbook in that they have to have one product in every part of Apple's portfolio, if that makes sense. Like, we have to have headphones. I don't think it was necessary to be completely honest with you. Their earbuds are fantastic. Just make the best earbuds. I know that they're probably making a lot of money from them as well. They definitely stand out. The sound is great. The work

and they've done with teenage engineering there means that they kind of have a sound profile down and a design that works. I just kind of don't understand why they had to make this move into over ears because at $300, they're probably way better options out there for most people. I think you're probably better off with two pairs of in-ear headphones that you can kind of switch between when the battery runs out.

They look okay. They're quite comfortable, I will say that. But yeah, sound profile, I don't really have any thought. because I listen to them at a ridiculously busy hands-on event, which is never a good place to kind of give you thoughts on many things. Yeah. Yeah, they're, I don't know. They're fine.

They seem a little, you know, reading through reviews, and obviously our review is forthcoming, but reading through other reviews, like they seem a little, I feel like I was expecting a little bit more in terms of sound quality for $300. I feel like everybody has kind of went like, they're not terrible. Like they're not, but, but, you know, it just feels so weird to be at a point where we're calling like $300 headphones like mid-range Bluetooth headphones, which I've seen people say a lot. And I get why they're saying that because of like Sony's latest, you know, release and of course the AirPods Max, which these are pulling from, at least a little bit in terms of their design. It's very nothing design, but there is a little bit of AirPods Max visual language in there.

And yeah, I don't know. I feel like if these were $200, I might just impulse buy them one day, but I don't think that's going to happen for $300. It definitely feels like there are odds with the phone, if that makes sense. Like, oh, we're a slightly cheaper phone, but we have all of these, like, compromises.

But these are really high-end headphones and that they're not compromised, and you're going to get all of this for $300. Like, it feels like, again, it just feels a little bit odds with what they were a lot. Maybe they should have launched that separately, but I guess they want this. kind of portfolio of products to to launch at the same time.

But they look cool, I think. They look like cassettes on the side of your ears. So that's kind of interesting. Definitely a lot cooler than the phone, I will say, from first glance. But all of the designs have grown on me more as time has passed. So hopefully that's the litmus test that we have a pair of headphones and a phone that in a few months time, like, oh, great design, really well played. Like the guys that the former Dyson team and the teenage engineering people have worked,

we're not off and did a great job. They're making great products. But yeah, I just think place to their strengths. They should place their strengths a little bit more, which is just making fairly affordable products that look good. Stand out. Yeah. Yeah, stand out and look good.

Yeah, the transparent thing's cool. I wonder how long that'll stay relevant to nothing. I hope they don't go down that route because I think everybody eventually falls down that kind of we need to go a little bit more professional business-like. And they should go the other way. they should do like colored transparent shells like i want like n64 you know like old iMac style like blue like blue and purple and like they should do that like those frosted transparent uh finishes uh that you'll still see on like retro gaming handhelds or whatever like they should

they should lean into that more i it doesn't totally fit with the aesthetic they they launched the company with and obviously that's the aesthetic they're still doing but it does fit with the aesthetic of the user base. I think they're trying to chase, right? Like, I think there's a lot of nostalgia among, you know, Gen Z. Obviously, Gen Z was not, like, growing up in the early 2000s, but I think they have, like, come around to a lot of, like, the fashion choices of the early 2000s, and that sort of stuff would fit right in.

So sticking to the black and white sometimes can be, you know, a little disappointing. I think there's, like, a lot of, but it also comes. cost a lot of money to launch all those colors. So I get why they stick to some more basic shades. But I would love to see them kind of lean into that early 2000s, late 90s type visual language. You're probably right, actually. It probably taps into something different. This could be a full podcast on its own.

But I do wonder if that Gen Z and even Gen Alpha to an extent have only ever seen devices of one shape, one size, maybe a few colors. this is brand new to them. So yeah, definitely think they should lean into it more and hopefully they'll continue to do it. Maybe, maybe, and this is one for anyone out there from Nothing who's listening,

why don't you release something a little bit like the analog pocket of your own? That would be pretty cool. I'd like to see that. Nothing branded Game Boy emulator. Maybe you should just go whole hog and go for it. I don't know if you need tons and tons of resources for that, but hey, even limited edition,

I would probably be first in line for that. but yeah that's that's nothing from three again we'll have some more coverage in the next few days I'm going to be comparing it to some some devices out there because I think this stacks up well actually to the pixel 9 Proxel to be completely honest with you yeah especially because of the Snapdragon 8 SGM4 being

probably a few steps ahead of tensor but um like I say stay tuned if I can get it out I'm tired but bear with me I'm tired but in terms of like other things I've missed this last few days. Abner, you've seen a cool thing that happened with Gemini. I need you to discuss this with me

because, again, when you plugged into the Matrix and you could go into these events, you missed the big talking points. So Gemini has a new icon. At the beginning, which, what, however, 2024? Is that my time? When Gemini launched, it had this distinct visual language which was the departure for Google, this blue-purple color look that was there very different,

it set apart from its usual red, blue, green, yellow branding that everything Google has uses. Over years later, well, months later really, Google is finally ready to bring Gemini into its main branding by having a red, blue, green, yellow icon, which is in the process of lowering out on Android and iOS and the web, I assume. But it's the colors, it's on one end, it's more uniform. It matches all other Google products. But at the other end, it now looks like every other Google product.

Have you any feel, any knee-jerk reaction? reactions to it the first time you saw it. I mean, I think it does a really good job at demonstrating that in Google's mind, collective minds, Google is Gemini and Gemini is Google, right? Like that feels like this is, that's what I'm supposed to take away from. Maybe I would have thought that if this had been the logo from the start too, but certainly the fact that this is like a change that they had to say. it down and decide to make and I'm sure went through like tons of different variations in

testing before they picked exactly, you know, where the red and the yellow and the green and the blue would show up in the sparkle. Like they had to really think about this. And I think that demonstrates well that like these two, you know, and this is this is not quite obviously to the level of meta, of Facebook changing its name to meta, but but it is sort of the same thing of like, look like we I want we want to we want you to identify Gemini with our core product which is Google search like we want you to think about that and to do that like psycho on a psychological level we're going to make this logo look like that other logo my biggest trepidation is this is going to look like every other logo on your phone like I get that it's cool right but it's a problem what

why did why did we settle on the sparkle as the AI what what was Was the reasoning for that? I don't know. Every company. Yeah, every single company seems to have fallen into this spark or trap. Like, who made that decision? Who was the first to do it? But I guess this is the only way that Google can do it without it blending into the crowd,

if that makes sense. Yeah. It definitely, how would I describe it in the best way? It feels a little bit like the old, I say old, I think it's still on some devices, is the old Google Assistant Glow bar. reminds me a little bit of that a little bit like kind of it wrapped around into this sort of

star shape this new sparkle it does glow you can imagine it glow it's interesting from again when they started they thought they needed to separate the brand and I could see that being a cautionary move

like in case of this Gemini thing didn't work out the main brand is protected but as time has gone on this feels like a graduation that they're ready to embrace it and bring it in line. I think I'm not sure if you've noticed this,

but when people, when mainstream people talk about AI overviews in Google search, they just call it Gemini. So to their credit, they got the market penetration out on the term Gemini, even though what AI overviews are powered by Gemini models, but it's not Gemini itself. But I think that's an interesting thing that Google got. It's the best case scenario. I guess, even though it's not technically accurate.

But yeah, this icon, it's looking like every other icon on your phone. I guess most people do launch it with the power button, long pressing on the power button or the corner stripe. So I guess you never really see the icon, though I've come around putting the Gemini app on my dock. So that's something. I think you did that too. I'm the trend, so, yeah, I'm the original. I'm the OG of Gemini on my dock, which I haven't put, weirdly, I haven't put on the nothing phone three yet,

but I've only been setting it up today. So, yeah, I think having, I mean, I suppose it does, it does signify Google a little bit more. I just don't know why, in some ways they didn't, there's not more emphasis of the G logo somewhere somehow to kind of really make it stand out. It makes sense on your phone, right? But I guess to someone who's not versed

and is a little bit like, is that Google? I'm not sure. Like, how are they going to know off the top of the head? And I think that's probably why I alluded to the sparkle. Why is that the thing for AI and every single company has just said, yeah, we're going to put the sparkles on it. That means AI. And I should research why.

I imagine it's something to do with like, oh, yeah, yeah, it makes you think of technology or something like that somehow. Yeah. I'm spitballing, sorry. No, it's interesting. I hadn't thought about this, but looking, you know, in my pixels app drawer, the only app that separates Gemini from just like the Google app is Gmail. So ignoring that, it's pretty easy to compare the two.

And, you know, this doesn't explain why every AI application has a sparkle. And I'm sure that I am overthinking this and this is not why. But I do think it's funny that the Gemini Sparkle is like the exact, It's like if you asked me to design the opposite shape from like the almost a full circle G in Google, it's like the exact opposite shape. It folds in instead of being rounded. It's filled in instead of white in the middle. It is kind of an exact opposite like icon in a way that like, I don't know, like maybe that's on purpose. I have no idea.

I would love to ask somebody at Google if it's on purpose for that being like a very obviously the colors match now. but it's still a very distinct logo next to the Google G in a way that seems too specific to be purposeful or to not be purposeful. Honestly, like in the grand scheme, I wonder if, what have you just called Gemini Google? Is that way...

You know, it's so weird. That's so weird you said that because I was about to ask the same thing. Like, at what point is Gemini? Gemini is... Because, like, I don't know. I don't know if you guys having this same experience with people who anyone who brings up AI, they instantly AI is chat GPT.

Yes. Yes. There is no other. Like if Google can kind of court people and say, hey, Google is AI. And then be like, just if you Google it, you're AI in it, if that makes sense. Like doing that with overviews, right. It's going to be when AI mode is eventually becomes the default experience, which like they have not, to my knowledge, not said that's going to happen. but like obviously that's what they are working towards.

And yeah, I feel like, I feel like they'll never disable the Gemma. Like I don't think the Gemini name will go the way of like Bard, right? When when Bart came Gemini. But I do wonder if they're going to like, you know, if they look at the way people talk about Chet, GPT, and they're like, okay, like, we have the world's most popular like brand name or whatever. Like we literally have the like Kleenex of the internet. Like we will, we will just leverage that. power once AI mode is there so that it turns into like when you Google it you are essentially using Gemini that brings up a question that Gemini is not AI mode and so far so I know Damon you

haven't had a chance to use AI mode because it's in the you it's only launched in the US and coming suit and in testing in India but yeah AI mode is good honestly it's I like it more than AI overviews anyways I go to it as a destination Like the separation I have with Gemini is if it's more something that I don't want in my Gemini history side panel, I will use AI mode for it. And yeah, I think it's good. And looking like from Google having two competing efforts, I feel like they would say it's not a zero-sum game, having searched do AI and have Gemini do AI.

the difference is that Gemini is to be your assistant. And I think that that distinction will make more sense in the future when it's truly more assistive. But yeah, I feel like, I don't know if this is like five, ten years out when all these things, when we reach AGI or when the intelligence is so good, I wonder if the venture of future is Gemini, those two products merge or AI mode and Gemini merge or the Gemini just becomes Google or the default search experience. I don't know how far away away from that, but I feel like that they'll always be in the back

of our minds as people plugged in. Yeah. Yeah, well, maybe, I agree with you. that I agree with you on the whole, but I think the timeframe is going to be a lot faster. I think the timeframe is going to be faster because if Google can get this into, say, the regular search mode and regular search,

is monetized faster than anybody else? Like, that's the biggest monetization option because chat GPT and OpenAI can only survive so long because they're just going to burn through this investor money and also they need subscriptions. They're relying on integrations with third-party companies and Google can say, well, we can go whole hog.

Like, we are the highway. We don't need, we don't need to, like, kind of build in off ramps and all that kind of stuff. They're already built into our systems. I think it's probably going to be a case of two to three years. I could easily see Google ditching Gem. Well, not ditching Gemini. I'm making Gemini side product in its portfolio.

And then when you use AI, it is Google as part of that AI. I can definitely see that happening. I feel like Gemini becomes more like how it is in Chrome right now, where it, like, like the, L-LM part, the actual chat bot part of Gemini becomes like, okay, you're not going to Gemini.gov.com. And like, when you activate it on your phone, it's pulling up more of a full search thing, right? Whatever AI mode eventually becomes, right? But then Gemini still exists as like the little icon in Chrome that you click to like ask it to help you find things or

understand things. Yeah, I feel like, again, like this makes more sense once you think of it as having a personal assistant when the functionality reaches a human assistant that can help and suggest in your daily life i think that's where the distinction where it will be clear to people that why is their AI mode why is their germany i think that makes sense but like in the grand scheme again goes back to merging the two as or or google is obviously the better name than germany um that's a very long-term cycle to what you said, Damien, sooner. But yeah, I think we're waiting. I feel like Google is probably waiting to see how useful,

how far they can push AGI or how much utility they can put into Gemini to see whether it stands as it's an assistant. And I feel like if it's like a human assistant, I feel like you'll be willing to pay for it. And I think that's going to be the differentiator. of, but again, at the same time, like, if they made this perfect AI, I'd not call it Google. Yeah, I think that's probably the best way to describe it. I think, yeah. We don't have to, we don't have probably too much longer to wait and see what that future is like because the way AI has progressed so soon in such a short space of time.

But that actually does us for time for this episode. I definitely want to thank you guys for talking nothing fun three with me because a lot of these are just thoughts and these you can, I don't know if you can tell from my voice, but I'm very, very tired. And I'm propped up on a lot of monster energy.

But yeah, thanks guys for joining me. We always appreciate talking anything and everything with you guys. And thank you for listening and everyone are out there and we will speak to you in the next episode. Bye. Bye.