Pixelated - Smart Speakers and Rest Days (with Jonah Becker and Taylor Helgren of Google)

Episode Date: June 26, 2026

Welcome to episode 106 of Pixelated, a podcast by 9to5Google. This week, Damien talks Abner and Will through his first impressions of Google's latest Home Speaker, a reboot of sorts of the company's smart speaker lineup. After the break, we're joined by Jonah Becker and Taylor Helgren of Google to discuss the launch of the Fitbit Air and Google Health. Sponsored by Bitwarden: Pixelated listeners can get started with Bitwarden's free individual plan by clicking this link. Thanks to Bitwarden for sponsoring the podcast. Sponsored by Proton Unlimited: Pixelated listeners can save 30% on an annual subscription to the company’s suite of privacy-friendly services by signing up using our link. Thanks to Proton Unlimited for sponsoring the podcast. Subscribe YouTube Podcasts Pocket Casts Spotify Amazon Music Apple Podcasts Overcast

Welcome to Pixelated episode 106. I'm your host, Will Saddleberg. This week, Abner and I join Damien as he walks us through his earliest impressions of Google's new home speaker. Design and style, sound quality, ecosystem, and Gemini. We have questions, and Damien has answers. After the break, we're joined by Jonah Becker and Taylor Helgren from Google to talk about the launch of the Fitbit Air in Google Health. It's all coming up after this word from our sponsor, Bitwarden. This week's episode of Pixelated is sponsored by Bitwarden, the trusted open source solution for pass key, password, and secrets management. Bitwarden helps you create strong and unique credentials across all your accounts and devices, so you never have to reuse the same passwords everywhere. With end-to-end encryption and secure autofill, Bitwarden helps defend against fishing attacks and data breaches, while making logins easier across every device. If you're using Android or pixel device, Bitwarden really shines.

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Trusted by over 15 million users and 80,000 businesses across 180 countries in 50-plus languages, Bitwarden remains committed to transparency and making secure password management accessible to everyone with a free plan for individuals. You can get started with a free individual Bitwarden plan by hitting the link in the show notes or by visiting bitwarden.com slash 9 to 5 Mac. That's bitwarden.com slash 9 to 5 Mac. Thank you to bitwarden for sponsoring pixelated. So welcome along gang. We have been, well, I have been using the Google Home speaker this week. I have been excited for this as a nest mini enthusiast for the better part of a decade and a home mini before that.

I have a ridiculous amount of smart home hardware. I know you guys haven't kind of been using it, using these speakers. Is there anything you can't? You would love to know as someone who is the Oracle of the Google Home speaker at this point in time? So the ring of lights at the bottom, it is definitely more interesting than the whole mini, than the Nest mini, than the Nest audio before it. The original Google Home had pretty good feedback. So how are you liking that design choice, which is really the only really main design thing going on? Do you know what? It was something that when I saw the original images for it,

I think it was it leaked by, it was leaked by the guy who won F1. I can't remember his name now. He's Englishman as well, McCarron Driver. I just remember seeing it for the first time and seeing those lights and thinking, huh, that seems interesting. Google doesn't tend to do lights in this format.

Over the past, what, three or four days, I've been using this intently. It definitely feels like an upside down Siri speaker. The HomePod Mini. It just feels like the whole. the antithesis of the HomePod Mini, which again feels really, really odd. The lights are a really nice way. Because I do think that the, do you remember the four dot set up?

Is it four dots on the Home Mini? Yes, four dots. I'm pretty incorrectly specifying that. You kind of have to be at the perfect angle to see those every time. Yes. And I feel like, I feel like with the actual 360 speaker, you get in that feedback. You can see it in more places, especially in like a dark room. I tried putting it in my bedside cabinet, regret doing that straight away.

There doesn't seem to be a way to kind of like disable the lights entirely from what I can tell. I haven't messed around enough to do that. It is nice to get the feedback. I can't deny that. I just don't understand why this is already or suddenly the thing on this speaker of all speakers. I don't know why. I felt like four dots might have been a throwback. They may have stuck with it, but I guess that's not Gemini, is it?

I think you're right. The 360 degree design is probably why they've done the ring, but at the same time, why is it blue and purple? That's the old Gemini color scheme. I wonder if it supports other

colors, like if they can that's something, it's a, if it's a full RGB thing and they can change it up in the future. Do you know what? I really like, there's one little tiny touch you mentioned RGB. When you initially start speaking to the speaker, and it goes, it glows white, and it is a very bright white, I might add.

It's almost like a flashlight or torch on your phone, on your phone, like camera. It is that bright. And then all of a sudden you get a very, very brief, and I love this touch, like a little rainbow, the Google G-color rainbow. And then it goes into that blue, purpley color. That's great. But on the RGB thing, I don't know why Google hasn't added visualization for music. Like, I feel like they could add this in.

Like, it would be really, really cool. That would be awesome. The amount of times I'm like, I've been listening to Spotify, I've listened to YouTube music, I've been casting pocket casts, just putting it through its paces. And that alone would be phenomenal touch. I just really, I don't know, I feel like they may be saving that for a future update, possibly. Maybe we could have a Google, home speaker, a feature drop or something along those lines.

I could definitely see that being a thing. I would have loved to, I would have loved to have seen what they could do with the colours like you say. It would be fantastic because I only have the. really, and I don't mean to say it crappy, but that's the way I can describe it. We have the crappy porcelain. And I think the, the, I'm calling it obsidian, but it's hazel, isn't it? It's technically hazel, like a really, really deep green. Yeah, it looks, it looks black to me, but it's, um, again, I, I think they've, they've done a great job with the light. I think it is a really, really cool addition. It just probably needs a little bit to fine-tuning. I don't know. You know, it's,

it's, it's, it's not quite to this degree, but, uh, the thing that this just reminded me of the, the, the, that you jogged my memory of Damien. Yeah. Is the pixel tablet weirdly and not quite to this degree. But it is interesting to hear you be like, I would love, you know, I've already had, I've had the speaker for a week or whatever, a little less than a week. I've already had this idea of like, you know, what a thing I would add to it in a software upgrade.

Like, but the speaker was announced so long ago. I would have loved to have seen, like, that's how I felt about the pixel tablet, too, where it was announced like forever in advance and that it came out. I was like, why doesn't it have this, this, and this. This is not quite to that degree, but it's immediately what reminded me of it. Like, Google will kind of have that albatross around its neck forever for me because there were so much missed potential at the pixel tablet that they never followed up on that any time I hear about where even something as simple as like, why didn't they lean more into the music

visualizer aspect? It's like, that is a good point. Why didn't they do that? Like, you came up with that idea after a few days of views. I mean, it was genuinely a few hours within a few hours. Even better, right? And that's how I felt about, you know, when we learned about the pixel tablet and I was like, so you can you can cast to the speaker when the tablet's not docked, right?

They were like, no. And I was like, no, you can't. Okay. So kind of going into that before we get to maybe some of the more Gemini stuff, how does it sound? Like when you're not looking at your music visualizer, how does it sound? Okay. So initially when I set it up, it filled the room. You know the initial like kind of that pling that that Google,

I don't know what you would call it. Is it like a Google ding, a Google pling, a Google. A chime maybe? Chime, chime, chime, chime. So when that chime came in, I was like, wow, this has filled my office. Like the Nest mini, which I've used, and I have a home mini somewhere, I think I've just unplugged it. They do not have that like oomph. But that probably set me up for failure a little bit.

Because while I do think the speaker is a marked step up, it still doesn't like, I think we're kind of in an in-between position where it maybe is not quite where the Nest audio sits and if I'm being completely honest, I mean I could be wrong, I don't think it is in terms of spec for spec, but it sounds eerily similar to the speaker doc that comes with the Victal tablet. And I know that a lot of people have been highly critical of that,

but I don't listen to much music on these kind of speakers often. I will listen to maybe a track, I'll listen to podcasts, I'll listen to radio. Right. For me, it's spoken word, but there is so much depth in spoken word now compared to the Ness Mini, which I think probably, probably, I guess, people who are worried about it, you'll have a great time listen to podcasts on this speaker. It is enough to fill a small room. Nice.

It is, I know there's some functionality that you compare it with a Google TV streamer, and I think ahead of time, I thought it was limited to stereo pairs, and I know that Google wants to advertise it as that. You can actually pair it with one speaker. I tried it. It was like a cheap sound bar. It probably wasn't great. I mean, if you were, if you have a very, very old TV or a TV that doesn't have great speakers or the speakers have blown, you probably be absolutely fine.

But I don't have that. I don't have an insane TV. I think I have an LGC1, which is the speakers are fine. They're passable. I don't have room for a soundbar. Oh, I'm not allowed to have a soundbar. Just put it that way. it's not allowed on my TV cabinet

but so this is an LGC one an OLED set yes out of curiosity yeah it's just so funny that you're like I don't have a crazy TV and then you name it like like it's like most people have the $300 55 inch like Roku TV from Walmart

like that is I feel like you probably will have a good experience if you pair it with the TV streamer but just I mean I know that Google's advertising 360 degree sound it is 360 degree sound but if you have that one speaker in front of your TV you're going to have to find the perfect placement and then I think you lose a bit of

how would I describe it Google's attention to detail in the decor side of things so this is a piece of technology that I think can slide into your home life probably in ways that a smart speaker can't and I feel like it would be disappointing to put it in a position like on my TV cabinet

if you go on the website you can see in the review I've got a few images of where I would where it will probably will live. I've been given in equate's permission to put it there by my partner. She said it's absolutely fine. It looks like a candle. So that's probably like a fancy candle

is like the best like positive piece of news. They should have made a candle glow with the ring. Why did they do? Like the flicker, the soft orange like amber flicker. They could do actually, right? There's so many opportunities. There's so many opportunities they could do with this. And we'll license those ideas to you.

You do have to pay us. We don't ideate for nothing. I'm, as you can tell, I'm excited by the design elements of it, because I think it sticks with what's tried and true and something I've loved with the Ness Mini for such a long time. There's just a few things that you would think, oh, they would have thought of these, because they have this new piece of technology,

aka RGB lighting, which every gamer knows you can change the color that you want it to be. But for sound profile, I'm overwhelmed. I would say I'm not overwhelmed. I'm not underwhelmed. It's what I expected for, a $99 speaker of this type. I mean, that's not the key selling point, is it? I think it is Gemini and we'll get into a little bit of what I think Gemini is and isn't with this speaker. It is

definitely, for me, having been on the preview, the Gemini preview on lots of my devices anyway, it didn't feel like a brand new device. It felt like an augmentation of the system I already have in place. I don't know if you guys have even used a Gemini Live preview, at Gemini preview for home at this stage? I have not. Most have you run a Nest Hub versus a speaker since I, yeah, I'm

the pixel tabby next to my bed and that doesn't have the Gemini for whatever reason, Gemini for home. But I have my home devices at this point is the Nest Hub max in common areas

and I still find more utility from having a display. I think this is a thing. I think having come from displays, we kind of gone, it feels almost like we've gone beyond the dedicated speaker situation for interactions with, I mean, chat GPT and Gemini. I think you do need a visual element there because sometimes you kind of want the conversation is nice and I do use Gemini Live on a regular basis. I just don't think I will use it in this form factor. I still feel like I'm falling into the habit habit and the trap of give a prompt or a not prompt a direction, oh, turn on these lights, turn off this thing,

open this, whatever it happens to be. I'm still falling into that trap because for me, Gemini is more at home in other form factors. I don't know if everyone would be the same. No, that's a very good point because voice assistance, there is still a place and time for voice assistance and I would say that most people have been conditioned through the voice assistance of the past 10 years. Simple prompts, simple commands, they just want stuff done automated in their home and they don't necessarily want feedback from it. They just want the command issued and get it done. So there is still a time and place for this and we'll get to how much of a market success we think this will be.

But yeah, how has that smart home command experience been for you? So I think one thing I really like is how, I mean, obviously, I've started that early transition because we knew this device was coming. So I made that transition to the Gemini preview on my existing speakers. I think in the back of my mind, I was like, let me get prepared for the piece of hardware that's coming. So I'm already conditioned. You use a good term there, Abner, I think.

The old Gemini, sorry, the old Google Assistant input-output interface is great for lots of people. And I don't doubt that it's made a lot of fans of the Google Assistant and Google Hardware. For me, Gemini bends and flexes and molds into my requests exponentially better. And I can't honestly hand-on-heart say I've had as many problems as some other people have said that they've had online. I think that being able to go from a specific request, I turn on the office TV, turn on my office lighting, set it to a nice candle light color at 50% brightness. If I tried to do that with the Google Assistant,

it's a no-go. I do wonder if a lot of that is to do with the cloud processing of those requests. Here on the home speaker, everything seems to be, okay, give me all the information that you want. I'll take a millisecond or a second or so everything's getting processed. I really do think that for a lot of people that might be an eye opener

and they may have a better experience than they're potentially having with the preview because everything can be processed locally and there's no delay to that. I wonder if there's something to do with the improved internals as well. The Wi-Fi chip is exponentially better. I'm not having issues in the extremities of my house plugging it in. Everything seems to be just as good. whereas the Ness Mini there was certain parts

of my home I couldn't put it like it would just disconnect I'd be playing a radio something on the radio cuts out have to start start from scratch again

with the assistant and with Gemini so I think in that respect I'm very very impressed with how Gemini is able to handle my complex request and I'm the kind of person

I don't know if you guys are the same way you'll you be like oh you forget you have a little bit of a brain fog and you say something and you're like

why would I want to turn that light on again and Gemini can actually handle it And that's, I think that's a game change. I'm really intrigued to see how Google handles updates for Gemini specifically for this speaker, or is Gemini just going to get updated? Are they going to target this?

I'm not sure. I think Gemini is just probably going to get updated. But you bring up a good point about the hardware itself. There are meaningful upgrades that said the caveat is that Google waited so long to update to release new hardware. So it is partially a problem of their own making. But in terms of upgrade, and if you have a Nest Mini or you have an existing lineup, there will be meaningful hardware improvements for you to consider. But I guess this is the broader question I want to get to.

Who is buying this home speaker? Who, like you said, Damon, you had a lot of home minis in the past. And I doubt that there are many people, that there will only be a few people that will consciously. like upgrade every single speaker in the house through this home speaker. So what does the upgrade proposition look like? You know, it's a fantastic question because I've been trying to think about this all week. I think, okay, let me broadly talk about why I think it's tough for people to make the switch from the Ness Mini. And the Ness Minis particularly, not necessarily the Home Mini.

The Ness Mini was created almost as like we're going to refresh the Home Mini. make it more of a, well, you can put this anywhere device. They created the little hook on the back of it, so you can obviously put up, you can literally hook it up anywhere. It's small and lightweight, so you could, and they were so ubiquitous and cheap. They, basically, they were giving them away as part of Google. I think I got three, but with Google one. Like I said, if you bought a whole mini or Nest Mini, you did something long.

I mean, I was gifted one by my partner's parents a long time ago, and I think they paid full price for it. So I think it was about £50 pound here in the UK. And I was like, you do realize I've just been given one free by Google One. And my girlfriend was like, don't say anything to them. Like, don't mention that. But yeah, I think I think with the Ness Mini, if you have multiple in your home, and I know a lot of people have kind of like, we'll have them connected to a power outlet.

I know the, you know the brackets that you can buy, you can buy a bracket and it hangs off our power outlet. Like, I don't think that's ever going to, well, if it does exist for this device, it's going to be very heavy and more robust. And it looks obvious. because it's like almost one and I think it's like two point one times bigger or something along those lines it is taller it is marginally wider you are going to notice it plugged into the wall as much as it might look like a fancy candle from a distance for most people I don't think

as bad as it sounds I don't think there's much of a unless you want an audio experience upgrade reason to make a switch I think as well I think there's going to be a lot of hardware holdouts who are like I don't, I hate Gemini. I only want Google Assistant to control my lights. I think, I mean, then again, online, we tend to see the, to see the rage bait and the, and the negative. We don't tend to see as many positives because people are just happy with what they want and they don't talk about it online. I'm very, very interested to see what those people say, like the kind of people who are very, very angry at everything that anyone ever does online. Are they going to be happy about this speaker? Probably not. I think if you start to get it discounted, if it's closer to 50, $50, $50 pounds here in the UK, I think it probably will sell quite well because the speaker is decent. I don't know what it's like compared to some of the Amazon hardware,

the Echo stuff. I'd imagine it's on par with that. I'm sure that Google engineers were looking at it and thinking we need to at least match them and exceed them. Gemini is going to completely wipe the floor with what an Amazon Echo device can do, and it will do for a long time to come. So, yeah, I think it's definitely the kind of

people who want, who are probably like me who cannot remember half of the Google Assistant commands that they've been using for a decade. Turn on this light, turn off that light. Well, I don't need to worry about that. I can do it all in one sentence. I think that's probably enough of an upgrade for some people who have lots and lots of devices. And I can never remember what anything's called in my home. I've named every single wall outlet. And I'm always forgetting what Switch 7 is. Where is that? Like, I don't know what that one is. Yeah, I think those people might might gain a big benefit from it. The kind of forgetful smart home enthusiast

and I put myself in that category. Yeah. Mine are labeled horribly. It's bad, isn't it? Organize my Google Home library of devices has been on my to-do list for years. Like years of me being like, one of these days I really need to go in

and clean out some of the devices that I don't use anymore or that were unplugged the last time we moved four years ago. and never got blood back in. Like, I should do this one of those days, but I just, I never get to it. I mean,

they probably should have options for that in the application. That's a good point. Like, have a like, hey, we notice you haven't used, you know, floor lamp three and 18 months. Do you want to remove it from your account? Yeah, I think, I think, I think that just kind of reminds me as well

how much of the application is relied on for these speakers. I think having used the Nest Hub and the pixel tablet and I still have the original Home Hub that I use. It's literally in my living room and I use it every single day. I think sometimes that visual element for a smart device is really, really important. I do wonder how Google kind of follows up those devices if we're going to get another smart display. I mean, with a smart display that has Gemini hardware,

I'm sure it will probably look something like this, with a little screen attached, which is absolutely fine by me. I think there's going to be a lot of people who are potentially put off by having a speaker. I do think that Gemini probably lives best on display because you can have that interaction element. For me, I'm not the kind of person who would use it in a kitchen.

I know Google kept using kitchen examples in some of the marketing material. I just don't think, for me, I'm a visual cook. I will have a recipe book. to follow through and scroll and see what the food's going to look like and compare things. And then I want to be able to read as well as have those audio feedback. I think Gemini Live is great, but it doesn't feel like that's perfectly placed for everyone. So maybe this is, this definitely feels like another reset play.

I mean, did we get the home originally, the Google Home speaker, the Home Mini. Did we get the Nest Mini in the Nest Hub at the same time? I think it was. I think, and the Home Hub, sorry. I can't remember the exact scenario, but it definitely feels like this is the first play in reintroducing smart displays and make it get people ready for them again. It really is kind of like a full reboot like 10 years after the fact because the Google Home speaker, the original Google Home speaker is now essentially 10 years old and it looks in some ways very similar to this. Like, you know, like not identical, but like it's a it's a canister shaped smart speaker with lights on it. Like there's only so many ways you can design. it and it isn't like are we going to just kind of like is this like the Hollywood reboot cycle like are we just going to go through like the rebooted start to say the reboot like now for the

Gemini era like I don't I don't know yeah I am very curious about that I don't I don't see this as like the start of a new lineup I kind of think that this is I mean what we're would they even name it since they weren't so basic with the naming? I do wonder if that's actually a hint at how they see these devices. The Google Home Speaker being, anyways, naming aside, I kind of think this is their entry for the foreseeable future. I think they think that they need at least one halo device in their lineup from them, something that they can use and develop with.

But I am curious if we're going to see, if we're going to, like, they're never going to make another home max, I don't think. Even that was create at the height of the Google Home first goal on Google Home. I don't think we'll see anything like that again in the future, especially in this current way for devices. as rumored I think we'll see a new nest display but I do think this is like a two two device lineup for the foreseeable future and maybe partners who be able to third party hardware partners

who are able to build stuff out yeah yeah the only thing the only final thing I would say is that I felt like this was the perfect time for Google to announce or at least introduce the hey Gemini keyword it feels so at odds to to use that. I'm not even going to say, I'm not going to say it, so I don't set off on speakers, but it felt like this could be the perfect opportunity and the, the kind of the, the right footing to be like, okay, we're going to introduce a new wake phrase and get that tied to people's lips. I think we've been using the original Google wake word for so long, and it feels at odds with this transition. Yeah, I'm intrigued to see why that hasn't been the

case and I know people complained about it for a long, long time having custom commands, even if it wasn't a custom command that it was just Gemini. I think, Hey, Gemini would roll off the tongue with a brand new speaker and let it. I have always tripped over, hey, gee, but I've always, I've, it never has, it's, and maybe I'm, I'm sure I've said this on another podcast, but it always feels like I'm like coughing it up from my throat. Like, that's how that word feels when I'm trying to say it quickly as a wake word. And, And I agree with you. Like,

I agree with you. Like, rolls off the tongue very well. Despite being a syllable longer, it, it is somehow easier to say. Like, I don't know. I would, I would love, because I agree with it. I, I custom wake words are, it would be the dream. And Google's rivals have done it. So there's no reason they couldn't do it.

But, you know, oh, well, there's, there's little reason they couldn't do it. But, but, but even then, I would, I would settle for, you know, two or three variations. even just the one I would settle for. Yeah, yeah. I think overall, it isn't a bad reboot. I feel like... But not a lot of surprises either. It's kind of exactly what you would expect it to be.

Yeah, I think it will make certain people happy. It will make certain people unhappy. Some people will have a great time with this. I think for some people who are upgrading, have old hardware, take a look. Go read the review on site right now. There's some definitely more details that we haven't talked. about here in the podcast. But we are going to go over to speak to some very, very special people.

This is special guests on this episode. And yeah, we'll go speak to them. And hopefully you'll have some fun listening to what the Fitbit team have to say. Grab your phone and take a look at your app drawer right now. You've probably found yourself relying on these same old apps and services since the Nexus days. And what suited you best back then might not be the right choice in 2026. Luckily, Proton can help bring you into a privacy-first ecosystem built for our modern age. Proton offers practically every service you could possibly need under the sun across every platform, including email, calendar, file storage, password management, document editors, and of course, a trusted VPN. Built with class leading end-to-end encryption,

Proton's entire suite is fast, intuitive, and secure, and export tools mean you don't need to worry about leaving data behind on those other apps. Pixelated listeners can save 30, percent off an annual subscription to Proton Unlimited, which includes 500 gigabytes of cloud storage, custom email domains, a dedicated customer support team, and so, so much more. It's what's best for your current phone, not whatever you were using back in 2013. Upgrade to Proton today and save 30% on your annual subscription by heading to Proton.com.me slash 9 to 5 Google or by clicking the link in the show notes. That's proton.combe.combe slash 9 to5 Google. Thanks to Proton for sponsoring pixelated. Welcome along gentlemen. It's a pleasure to have you here on pixelated. I'm Damian.

We have Will and we have Abner. Hi, I'm Taylor. I'm a product management lead for Google. Hi, I'm Jonah. I'm director of design for wearables at Google. It's a pleasure to meet you, Jonah and Taylor. I kind of want to get in some fun stuff straight away. I've been thinking desperately about my first interactions with Fitbit, the hardware, the software, everything else in between. And I was speaking to Abner a few weeks ago about this, about our earliest memories with Fitbit hardware. And I remember in, I want to say 2012, please correct me from wrong. I picked up the Fitbit charge. Fitbit charge became my everyday companion. And I wanted to ask you guys, what was your first bit, first Fitbit devices, the kind of things that people were asking you questions about, the devices

you were wearing, and why you maybe fell in love with it, wore them every day, all that kind of jazz. Yeah, I'm happy to jump in. Prior to joining Fitbit, I was with HTC, and so a smartphone manufacturer doing a really amazing Android phones and such. And we had partnered with Under Armour to develop HealthBox. And so I was experimenting with all sorts of different fitness devices. And I think at that time, I was wearing a Fitbit force quite regularly. And when I was introduced, it was interesting, when I was introduced to James Park, the CEO, that's what I was wearing. And so he noticed it.

And when we started our conversation. So my early days with Fitbit were with the force. So, you know, similar sort of to the charge in some ways in terms of sort of its capabilities and such. But those were my early Fitbit experiences. And what did you love about it? What was like the thing, the thing that was like, okay, I'm going to wear this over other devices that are available at the time? So much of it was the just the real time connection

and with how I was doing throughout the course of a day, as opposed to like, oh, I went for a run in the morning and that was my health. So I think for me, what Fitbit did then and continues to do is it reminds me that health is 24-7. It's throughout the day, every day, every hour, every week. It is not just when I go to the gym or go for a run. That it is, you know, the choices I make for meals. It is whether I get up, if a meeting wraps up five, ten minutes early and I step outside and walk around for a bit, But it is, you know, sleep consistency and it's all of those moments.

And that is, those are sort of the behaviors throughout the course of any day that lead to health. How about you, Taylor, first Fitbit device? My first experience with a tracker was through like a challenge with my employer at the time. I wasn't at Fitbit. I was somewhere else. And they were, they were running a challenge to see, I think, you know, who could do the most distance or steps in a, in a month. and I was a super competitive person and kind of much younger at that time. And I very much wanted to win the challenge.

So I think that's what first brought me into the mix and it got me going with trackers. I think my first, you know, Fitbit experience that really stayed with me every day was a Fitbit Blaze when I joined the team in 2016. And, you know, I remember back then just the conversation starters that you'd pick up as you wore that around. And then people would say, is that a watch? Is that a tracker? What does that thing to do? How do you use it?

So that was my first experience. Nice. You kind of reminded me, though, you kind of, we were talking about this. Weirdly, you brought something called I wanted to talk about, gamifying stats and kind of like competing with your friends and your family. You mentioned that it was almost like you had a bit of a contest to do the most steps. Like, I have become a little bit obsessed since wearing the Fitbit Air of how I can be the top of the leadboard. And my record step count, I think this is prior to the air, was something like 55,000 steps I did in Japan last year.

I felt like I was going to die. It was too much. Have you guys ever reached a point where like, why am I doing these steps? Why am I hitting this step count? Is this for me, is this to kind of beat somebody else? Is it to be top of the leaderboard? Or is this because I am thinking secretly about my health somewhere along the lines? That's too funny.

I think my record step day is also from a trip to Japan. I think I was in Kyoto walking around Kyoto with my wife. Similar, you know, amount of steps there. So that's funny. I think for me, like the initial impetus was very much kind of a competitive one, as I said. But I think over time it's become more of an intrinsic motivation. And also just like learning about the value of movement, regular movement throughout the day. And like these shorter bouts of movement, I think it's been important.

on my personal out journey. Yeah, I think similarly, maybe Taylor and I share the competitive background, you know, sports backgrounds and all this sort of stuff and just general human nature for some people to be competitive with others. So that has certainly featured prominently in parts of my history and certainly my history

with health tracking and Fitbit. Yeah, leaderboard. Fitbit, you know, we used to do step challenges, you know, Walktober where you would split into teams and buy, you know, different functions in the company and have these competitions and things like that. So, and it spurred that sort of competitiveness, which is all obviously for about motivation and all with good intent. I have been in my more recent years actively trying to tamp down my competitive nature because in some ways I think it leads to overdoing it, right? You said, hey, I did 55,000 steps and I felt awful. You know, if you're doing 40,000

steps on your average day and you bump up to 55, you're going to be fine. If your average day is 10,000 and you do over 5x, you know, you're going to start to feel maybe that was overdoing it. So for me, it's been, it's been a similar journey and just, you know, having done, you know, been over 10 years sort of with Fitbit and now Google Health, I've seen my own sort of priorities change. Like for the first time, like really for the first time in the past few weeks, because I'm using, you know, obviously health coach and I've got a bike race this weekend. For the first time really in my life, I'm taking advice from this health coach to take rest days when I would have otherwise been training because my sleep or my readiness, you know, were not where they should be. So I'm maybe,

maybe finally getting a touch wiser? Just talking about like the first fitness trackers in general, mine was the ultra. It was the pebble-shaped one that you were able to clip to your waist. Just thinking about that, in those like 10 years ago, people, that competitive aspect of every, like, fitness trackers, pedometers of people like starting to really wear that in force,

that just brings me back to how people comparing their step counts was such a big thing when these first fitness trackers came out. On that, I used to prize by like the almost retro demand for fitness trackers without screens. Like we've seen the Fitbit air, we've seen other players in the space in the past few years. From the Fitbit from looking at that fitness Fitbit lineage, like the first trackers had to, just minimal screens and then we got the smart watches obviously. But right now, are you surprised by that retro demand for no screens again? I don't know if I'm surprised.

I think in some ways as a first, you know, first mover, this brand that defined this health tracking space, you know, with Fitbit, I think just the clarity of what having a daily step goal was. And I would always say it's first and foremost for you. You know, you set your individual goal, you know, whether that's 5,000 steps a day, whether it's 15,000 steps. So it's about, you know, achieving something that you feel good about. Now, naturally, some people start to compete with others and we have leaderboards and challenges and all this other sort of stuff that would encourage that. Certainly there was some media coverage and writing about, you know, people and, you know, the motivation they found by competing with others over their step

counts. But and so I think in terms of like an initial incredibly strong momentum for the space, something so that is that easily easy to understand. How many steps did I take? I think just lent to create a great amount of momentum for the space. But I think we're also 10 years later, I think the amount of changes. that we have in terms of technology, technology that demands our attention across, you know, whether smart homes, what's going on on on computers, you know, like other types of wearables,

you know, it sort of surrounds us. So I think the idea that it can be a little bit more quiet and more subtly integrated into your life, I think, makes a lot of sense. And I think this is something we were talking about. I mean, this is, Fitbit Air is not Fitbit's first screenless tracker. We had several, right, in the early days. What I think we have now with the new Google Health app and Health Coach is a really compelling, engaging sort of app and service that can guide you. I think Fitbit was doing, we were doing a great job at reflecting your data back to you, but in terms of the forward-looking guidance and meeting you where you are and helping and take you the steps forward and what do I do today

and what do I do next week and how do I get where I want to be? I think that's really where I see the acquisition and the partnership between Fitbit and Google really delivering on the promise of this union. Is that basically where the inspiration behind Health Coach came from? Like looking at this data that you're already good at tracking and collecting and being like, okay, how do we present this in a new, maybe clearer way

to users than we were we were doing before yeah i think that's really at the core but i think it came from that insight plus i think just an evolution and consumer expectation i as i kind of reflect on um like the time that i've been with baphid and now into google health i you know i may oversimplify things into some eras where like each era leading up to now was about like a a tracker or an app or device like illuminating a new part of your health like you started with steps then it became heart rate, then it was sleep. In COVID, it was vitals. Coming out of COVID, it was like how you take data from vitals and translate that to things like stress and recovery. I think increasingly, there are a ton of options for folks to learn about themselves and get insight into that data.

I think with that are increased expectations that, okay, now I now know something about myself. What do I do with it? And I need some help, you know, guiding me to take that to take that next step. And I think the intent of the Google Hala coach is really to be that companion that helps you take those next steps and builds on that, that knowledge that you built about yourself with the right guidance for you. Yeah. Yeah. The way I've always sort of thought about it is if you are a person who is unbelievably focused and committed to your health. And let's say you do two wellness checkups with your primary care doctor per year, you go. you go to a personal trainer for an hour, two hours per week. You've got your two dentist appointments.

You maybe go to a nutritionist once a month. Maybe you have a therapist that you see weekly for an hour. Add up all of those hours for someone, and this is someone who's like on it, right? Add up all those hours, that's less than a week over the course of a year. So the question is, how do we provide that level of support for the other 51 weeks, right? because, again, your health is all the hours of all the days. Now, at the same time, like to your question about a sort of Fitbit Air and a more ambient health tracker, right? You also don't want your nutritionist and your personal trainer, like, in your ear 24 hours a day, right?

Right. So the idea that you know that they're there, you know that they are sort of, you know, in health coach, all of these different capabilities in health coach are there and keeping an eye. When you want it, you know it's there. So, I don't know. Sometimes I think I might benefit from a nutritionist in my ear telling me what to eat and whatnot to eat. That's interesting. Have you guys thought about or talked about maybe this is on a roadmap somewhere, but like being able to take that data and that health coach and that Google Health in general is collecting and give it back to those people you just described for that week of appointments when you had it all up?

Can you, have you thought about a way to like export this stuff and be like, hey, doc, here's my reports from the last year. Like here are my, here are the vitals that my tracker has collected. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think at the core of this is is a belief in a conviction that, you know, users should really be in control of their data and should have the opportunity to share it, you know, securely and safely with whomever they want, whether that is a, you know, an expert like a clinician or your own fitness coach, their own in real life fitness coach, or it's a family member or a friend. And so that's absolutely part of the product and the roadmap. We have a, you know, a handful of ways to share that data. data today with things like APIs and Health Connect and integrations like that. But we're also working on some things that are more built for that specific interaction with a medical professional and walking into a primary care visit and being able to say, here are some key insights from my journey with Google Home.

So I would say that most people have never had a trainer or or anything like that. So with these, as people come, as people start using the health coach, have you found that they naturally take to having a coach? Do people naturally, do they feel immediately comfortable having the idea of a personal coach? Or is there some kind of learning period?

It's a great question. And I think not surprisingly we see, you know, people coming into the experience with very different backgrounds and in like, you know, various different health journeys, folks who, you know, clearly have an established routine that they've been, you know, hammering on for 10 years and are looking for optimization, folks who are just getting started on a journey, folks whose journey has, you know, been consistent, but there's been a major life change. And now there's, there's something new for them to experience. And I think each of their

kind of initial interactions with the coach has been, has been different. And I, you know, I think one of the key focus areas for us is really thinking about how the coach meets you where you are at the start of that journey and throughout that journey. I think it's one of the reasons we've, you know, a lot of the experience, you try to rely on, or at least put at the center opportunities for conversational input and in feedback loop so that you, you know, you as a user can share a bit more about where you are on your journey and how you want the coach to work with you. Has this kind of taught you anything about yourselves when you're using these tools?

Like, is there anything that's going to be brought up back from your own experiences that you were thought, I didn't anticipate this to kind of be, to rear its head, as it were? In some ways, I think using health coach, and I mentioned this before, and, you know, from sort of earlier dog food to now production, part of it is for me just naturally wanting to be open-minded about trying things, having had, you know, different, you know, coaches and personal trainers and gone through a lot of that more technical stuff, but like wanting to just be very open to how, you know, a Gemini powered health coach might guide me. And for some things that are, you know, quite specific, right? You know, like I'm training for a gravel bike race, right?

A specific discipline within cycling and, you know, being able to say like it's a specific distance and, you know, here's my target goal for finishing time. I mean, it's, you know, the ability for it to, one, help me with the training for that. And, you know, I'm also looking at other sources and verifying, but that it's quite good. And just being able to have that conversation, because I've never hired a trainer for cycling. It's something that's just, you know, kind of a hobby type thing. And so it's like I'm building a lot, you know, I have a lot of trust in the guidance that I'm receiving. And then also, so that laid to me earlier, I said, like, for me, taking a rest day where, hey, if I was supposed to be on the bike on Wednesday, but I didn't sleep well or I overdid it

on Tuesday and actually taking that guidance and changing my schedule, that's quite new for me. And in some ways, I was like, God, maybe all, like for the past 20 years, whenever I felt kind of, you know, I would feel a little crummy and gut my way through things, you know, I was just not recovered and ready. And I was just stubborn, you know, so like, you know, the, you know, idea that I'm able to use the health coach to to learn, you know, and about myself, especially like as I'm older and more injury prone and, you know, don't necessarily have the, you know, same physical capabilities that I would have had, you know, 10, 20 years ago. So it's been super valuable for me. And so much of this conversation, right, and so much of the focus on, on the

Fitbit Air specifically has been around not just the Google Health app redesigned and relaunch in general, but specifically health coach, right? and but health coach is is a paid feature which means there are going to be people who after that three month trial period do not stick with health coach. So what would you guys say the app redesign offers to those people who might, you know, have tried health coach and said like, yeah, I like it, but you know, I'm not going to pay the $10 a month for it or whatever. Like they're still interacting with this app. What would you guys say they get out of this new this new redesign?

Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of it comes back to that. There still is, in my mind, a ton of value in being able to engage with and track your data and your progress. And so one of the intents of Fitbit Air was to have a, you know, very accessible and affordable tracker that can do a lot of that great stuff, can track your sleep, can track your vitals, can give you insights into your exercise pattern. And, you know, I think the intent with the non-coach version of the app is very much to bring that. data and that progress tracking to life and make that easy for you. And I think we're also, some of our conversation today started around some of like the more team aspects of health or the collaborative or competitive, you know, competitive aspects of health. And you do think those social and sharing connections can be a big part of that journey. And I think we're excited

to continue to kind of blow out in that area for our world math as well. I can't want to get into a little bit of, just going back to the air for a second, it's more a case of, it almost feels like we're a rebirth, as it were. We mentioned that trackers have kind of, they've gone from this almost ubiquitous, a little strip on the side of your wrist to eventually becoming, tracking every single data under the sun. And we've now gone back with, I feel with the Fitbit Air, it almost feels like a start of that again. We're going back to this simple tracker that just does the thing, does the tracking thing. We don't have to worry about it.

We don't have to think about it. How much of that was kind of a, I guess the wider public perception of technology in general is almost like overbearing to an extent. And I think this one thing that's resonated with me, and I don't know if, I mean, I don't know if the guys agree with me as well, is that having something so stripped back as a piece of hardware

that still gives me access to this data that I maybe want, that the coaching side of things is very, very good. I know that Joni mentioned it, that I've having the same experience, so it's like, you should take a rest day, and I'm like, why do I need to do this? But it feels as though I'm interacting at my own volition, as opposed to this thing is a screen on my wrist.

It's telling me everything I need to know, and it feels overbearing. How much of that was derived from all of these other, this noise that's going on in the wider industry, the wider world, that people want to strip back experience, but still maybe want the data at a later time and a later period. Yeah, I mean, I think some of it is,

I see kind of a trajectory with any new technology where new technologies often want to, they want to yell. Hey, I'm here. Here's what I can do. You know, EVs, right? Completely different styling cues. Why EVs, like, all of them had to have blue details, things like that. And then at some point, people say, like, oh, I get it. Electric vehicles are a thing.

It's not a novel thing anymore. And then they can sort of be a little bit more quiet and start to, you know, take on different identities and blend in. And I think the same, like, if I think about where Fitbit started in terms of trackers, it's like, remember like the Skittles, like amount of colors and everyone says, like, yeah, I'm part of this mission, you know, I'm, you know, and everyone sort of was wearing this loud and proud. And there's certainly still people who want to do that, but there are also people who want something that's more subtle. And I think Fitbit Air, just because of how small, you know, we refer to the sort of main brain as the pebble, the technology piece that you pop out.

Because it's so small and flexible, it just enables us to kind of really think about this in a different way. I mean, the initial inspiration was a friendship bracelet. We wanted it to be that sort of easy to wear, right? And so that's why, you know, it's so much slimmer and smaller and just wearable because that was crucial for us in terms of the adoption. It's not to say that there aren't people, lots of them, who do want some real-time data on the wrist, right? We still have family of other products, other Fitbit products, you know, trackers with displays, you know, Pixel Watch is part of our health ecosystem as well, where you get much more rich data visualization and sort of real-time stats. So for a lot of people, that's still going to be an important

thing, but I think, again, you know, as Taylor mentioned, we want to meet people where where they are. And some people want something that's a little bit more quiet. And, you know, this idea of ambient tracking, I think is very valuable. It's awesome. Have you guys seen the, the little mounts people have made to put on, like, traditional watches? Absolutely. I'm obsessed with those. I have a pebble preordered. I have one of the round the pebble pre-orders. And, like, I'm so excited to, like, get one of those mounts and combine the pebble, like, e-ink, like, smart watch experience with with Fitbit tracking. That is like truly whenever that thing gets here.

I'm so excited. Yeah. I mean, I'm, and that's one of the things that's great about a something that is slim and wearable. And, you know, if it does feel like a friendship bracelet,

one, I also really like watches, just mechanical watches because I find it fascinating. And now, you know, I can get both, right? And even early in dog fooding, we were seeing people,

you know, whatever it is, their Saco, their Rolex. People were jerry rigging, early, you know, Fitbit Air proto devices to do exactly that. And so part of it is, you know, we, uh, the other week, we kind of released a hardware development kit, right? Because it's, right. Yeah. Part of it is, yeah, let's have fun. Let people invent and make things, you know,

um, and, and, and figure out, you know, different ways that they might wear them and integrate them in their life. That's awesome. I think one of the biggest compliments I can pay is that I am now a Fitbit Air guy. I ditch my pixel watch. So, yeah, fantastic product. I've really enjoyed using it. And it's kind of, I guess it's a holistic product. It's one of those things I don't, I, it's part of my life. I don't necessarily have to do anything extra. And I think that's one of the reasons why it's probably resonated so well, especially with our team and hopefully the wider audience. Yeah. Thanks guys for giving us your time today. Really appreciate it. Of course. Thank you.

Hopefully we'll have you on again at some time of future. I'm hopefully. you'll have a wider array of Fitbit air lineup and I want to speak to you more about it. And definitely we should set up a leaderboard where we can compete on our step count and cardio load and anything else in between because I will very much make that my goal to not be at the bottom. Can we also compete on who takes the most recovery days? Possibly. Possibly. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Thanks guys. We really, really appreciate your time today. Thanks, Rabin. Thank you, everyone. Just want to say a big thank you to Jonah and Taylor for joining us here.

Hopefully you've enjoyed this episode, and we will be back next week, a regular scheduled programming. Thanks for joining us here on Pixelated, and I'll speak to you soon. Bye. Bye. Thanks for listening to Pixelated, a 9-to-5 Google podcast. If you enjoyed the show, we ask that you rate and review it on the podcast platform of your choice and help spread the word by sharing the show with friends or on social media.