Planet Money - After the fires

Episode Date: January 23, 2025

The fires in Los Angeles are almost out. Residents are starting to trickle back into their burned-out neighborhoods. When they get to their houses, they face a series of almost impossible questions: Do we want to live here amongst all this destruction? And if we do, how do we even start?Today, we meet a father and son from Altadena who are confronting those choices. We pass through the National Guard checkpoints and enter the burn zone, where we see for ourselves all the challenges waiting for residents who want to rebuild. And we talk with an insurance adjuster about how the industry tries to value people's homes — and all of their possessions — after they have been reduced to rubble.For more on the California wildfires, check out our newsletter. We spoke with an economist who survived Oakland's wildfires in 1991 and has big ideas for how to rescue California from its insurance doom spiral.This episode of Planet Money was hosted by Sarah Gonzalez and Nick Fountain. It was produced by James Sneed and edited by Keith Romer. It was fact-checked by Sierra Juarez and engineered by Neil Tevault with help from Gilly Moon. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money's executive producer.Help support Planet Money and hear our bonus episodes by subscribing to Planet Money+ in Apple Podcasts or at plus.npr.org/planetmoney.Learn more about sponsor message choices: podcastchoices.com/adchoicesNPR Privacy Policy

President Trump is back in Washington, pursuing major policy changes on his own terms. We know from the past that means challenging precedent, busting norms, and pushing against the status quo. NPR is covering it all with Trump's Terms, a podcast where we curate stories about the 47th president with a focus on how he is upending the way Washington works. Listen to Trump's Terms from NPR. This is Planet Money from NPR. Have you been able to go back to your house? I was able to go back to my house that Wednesday, Wednesday after...

The Wednesday after the big fires started in Los Angeles. Yes, I was able to go back to my home, which was demolished. It's like fully burned down to the ground. Burned down to the ground. Yeah, there's no evidence of a stove, refrigerator, bathtub, a sink. Those things don't exist. It was flat. This is Aaron Abduchakor. He saw it. He saw it. I have not seen it myself.

And that is his son, Jahad Abduchakor. It was his childhood home. It was my home, home. Yeah. I grew up there. Yeah. It's ashes. As of now, around 15,000 homes, businesses, structures have been destroyed in the two big fires in Los Angeles and more damaged. There are estimates that between the two fires, the damage could be like $275 billion. Some say even higher. This is like 15 times more in damage

than the most destructive fire in California's history before now. We met Jahad and Aaron when they were standing on one of the main commercial streets in Altadena where the Eaton fire burned through about half of the town. Along with Aaron's home, the business that he runs with his two sons also caught fire. Shakur Realty and Finance is our real estate business and office, and that burned to the ground. The son, Jahad, actually went toward the fire to watch it burn. He got close enough to feel the heat.

I did. I did. I saw my office burn down in real time. One of his dad's rental properties demolished to the ground. Their mosque, the mosque they both go to, burned down. Four buildings, gone. I say, I got a grand slam, so, but we're going to be okay. I think we're going to be fine. Aaron is remarkably calm about all of this, And he has this very calming presence in general. But in his eyes, you can see that he's sad.

His son, Jahad, he looks more upset, but not sad. He's more frustrated. He says most of the people they know in Altadena lost their homes. Now Altadena, it has this strong middle class. 81% of the black people living in Altadena lost their homes. Now, Altadena, it has this like strong middle class. 81% of the black people living in Altadena own their homes, which is almost double the national average. And there are real concerns that the black community here,

the Latino community here, which together make up about half of the population, will lose generational wealth. That investors will take advantage of them by offering fast, undervalued cash for their property. Jihad is in real estate, remember? He knows people in the business.

And he says they are already trying to buy some of the burned down property that no one is even trying to sell yet. An investor sent me a text and it said, you know, I hope you're okay, hope you and your family are okay from the fires. Do you have any off-market property? Right? For me, I'm like, your text should have just ended with, I hope you and your family are okay from the fires. That should have been the end of the text. Come back to me some other time and ask the question about, is there any opportunities? Right now, their neighborhood is sealed off by police and the National Guard.

But there was this brief window the day after the fire started, when people could sneak back in. And Aaron went to look. — Did you walk around your house? Did you try to look for, like, anything special? — No, I didn't. I didn't have the heart to do it at that time. I just—no, I did not try to look in.

I just was amazed that it was totally flat. Aaron didn't stay long, 10, 15 minutes at the most, just looking around, looking out on the block, looking at what used to be his house. There was nothing left. Is there anything in your house that you wish you had? Oh, it's many things. Our wedding pictures, you know, all those things are gone. So you just missed it.

Then my daughter called and I was talking to daddy, don't forget the pictures. That's exactly what I did. I forgot. And I got a couple and then it was hasty to get out. The pictures are also what Jihad wishes their family had. It's photos. It's photos. Photos of who?

All of our family. Old pictures, old pictures, especially my mother's family. Their family has deep roots here. And the dad, Aaron, he said he and his wife planned to stay here. He always thought he would live the rest of his life in Altadena, he said, so he plans to rebuild here. That is his plan. Things could happen to make me change on that, but my plans in my mind is that I'm going to rebuild. in my mind is that I'm going to rebuild. Once I start on that task, if it's overwhelming,

then I will make some adjustments. But right now I'm going to rebuild. Have you ever gone through the process of building a house before? No, I have not. Aaron knows that three of his properties burned down. His house, a rental property, his business. But there is one property he has,

an office with a studio in the back, that he is not sure if it is standing or not. I haven't been able to see him, so... So I can cross the barricades. So if there's an address you want me to check on, I'm happy to check on it for you, till they let you in. Okay, do you have a card? Yeah, yeah, I'll give you a card. Let me just finish charting with you.

Hello and welcome to Planet Money. I'm Nick Fountain. And I'm Sarah Gonzalez. Residents are not allowed into the burned down areas, but reporters are. So we're going into the burn zone to see what's happening there. What happens after this kind of disaster? Together, these fires are California's most expensive fires ever. They're gonna set off billions and billions of dollars of economic activity. Insurance claims, games, scams, so much demand for labor and building materials,

and it is gonna be this way for years. Today on the show, what we saw in Alta Dena. for years. Today on the show, what we saw in Alta Dena. This message comes from Wyse, the app for doing things in other currencies. Sending or spending money abroad, hidden fees may be taking a cut. With Wyse, you can convert between up to 40 currencies at the mid-market exchange rate. Visit Wyse.com. TNCs apply.

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but we're making some fun, bold predictions for the new year. Listen now to the Pop Culture Happy Hour podcast from NPR. There have to be more than a hundred streets that can lead you to the burned out areas of Altadena. And on the day we were there, they were all blocked off. There's a Humvee parked sideways in the middle of every street. There's police tape. And at least two members of the National Guard with machine guns.

These guys look like just so young. Oh my god. Baby. The air is considered very dangerous right now. I want to be like, why aren't you guys wearing masks? Here, pull over right here. No, Sarah. Sarah. Sarah. Hi.

I'm just curious. Why aren't any of you guys wearing masks? Sarah with the parental energy. With the concern for people's health. We get to a checkpoint. We're told to stop, roll down the window. Hey, how are you? Press.

Can I see your name? Yes. Great, thank you. Thank you guys. Then a block later. Hello, sir. Another checkpoint. Thank you.

It's wild to think that the people who have homes here, have businesses here, are not allowed in, but we are. So far, it looks like nothing, nothing is burned yet, but you can just feel it coming, you know? You can smell it. We're driving up one of the main commercial streets past a gas station, a middle school, grocery stores, we're maybe a few blocks in. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. Oh my god. Whoa. Yeah. Wow. This place is completely burned up. Let me tell you a little bit about Altadena before the fires. It was this little green pocket of LA. I live near Altadena.

This is one of my neighborhoods. My husband and I have been living was this little green pocket of LA. I live near Altadena. This is one of my neighborhoods. My husband and I, my kids, we drive around here just to look at the trees. Giant, mature trees, some of the oldest, fullest, like weirdest looking trees in LA. And the backdrop of Altadena is the San Gabriel Mountains, these beautiful mountains that always look blue.

But today, there is no blue. There is no green. Yeah, the color that really is just like gray to me. Like, it's just monochrome. There's like no color left, other than sometimes some brick. Sometimes brick. Yeah, there's no color. That's what it is. Even the cars don't have color.

We're right at the base of the mountains now where homes used to stand, except you can hardly tell that there were homes here. You wanna walk around a little bit? We're sort of in the hills overlooking Altadena and the only thing that makes you know you're on a residential street is the way the cars were parked on the street. That and the fact that when you look out in every direction the only thing you see standing besides trees that survive sometimes is a brick fireplace, a brick fireplace, a brick fireplace.

Chimneys everywhere. The chimneys survive. It makes you want to build a house made exclusively out of brick. Yeah. Right? That's what it's like all you see. Like, where's the refrigerator? Where is the refrigerator in this house? Where's the stove?

You can't see like, oh, the kitchen surely was here. For blocks and blocks and blocks and blocks, it's just leveled homes. And it's like eerily quiet. There's basically no activity here beyond the checkpoints. I think before coming here today, I thought like, oh, they'll just... You thought people were gonna be like getting to work. I thought it was gonna be sounds of hammers and stuff like that. Yeah. But no. The only people beyond the checkpoint are some reporters, police officers, some utility workers, and firefighters.

Posing stuff down. We're just looking for any hot spots that are inside the building. There's just a little smoke coming from this particular building. So two fire engines showed up. They're trying to prevent any new flare ups. Do you know what this building was? You know what? I looked online.

I believe this was a library, a two story library. Both fires are still burning. They have not been fully contained yet. So the beginning of the beginning of the rebuilding hasn't even started yet. Residents aren't even allowed to see what we're seeing. Some don't even know if their homes or businesses were affected, like Aaron. So we went looking for one of his properties. It's that small office with a studio apartment in the back.

But it is hard to find because there aren't any street numbers. Because there aren't any buildings. It says we're here. This is the 2300 block. Is it this one? 2388? It's standing. What? Right next door to a building that's completely pancaked. Yeah, Aaron's building is standing.

The front door is cracked open. It looks like maybe somebody kicked it in, but it generally looks untouched. Yeah, I mean, some of the awnings are cinched black, but the white paint, the blue trim, seems clean. We try Aaron, but he does not answer. Aaron I'm taking a video for you. I don't want to go inside.

Yeah the whole building looks, from the outside, looks okay. It's the only building on the block that's still there. Right next door, we realize, is what's left of their father and son business. I'm looking at the old Google Maps. It says Shakur Realty in Finance. Oh, this is Shakur Realty? Yeah. Well, it's... Yeah.

Yeah. Leveled. It's just a pile of metal and ash and who knows what. It's hard to tell. And this is what thousands of people are going to come back to when they are allowed back in. And honestly, it is hard to imagine that people will want to live here anytime soon, because the things that make a neighborhood a neighborhood aren't here.

The bank, the post office, schools, parks, the vegan restaurant, the gas station, they do not exist. Some people will want to rebuild. But how do you even rebuild at this scale, when there's this much destruction? That is after the break. Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy have outlined their plans to slash the federal workforce with the help of a team of quote small government crusaders. What's in store for federal workers and how are they planning for change? This January 1A's.gov series guides you through various government agencies and the people

working for you. Listen to the 1A podcast from NPR. When a community burns to the ground, when all of the homes, all of the buildings, all of the infrastructure is completely destroyed, it's hard to know where to even begin. Before anyone starts to rebuild, they need money to rebuild. And before that, they need to make sure it's safe to rebuild. Like, it's not even safe to walk around the burned-out areas,

let alone try to restart your life. There's asbestos, burned plastic, lead, arsenic. It is toxic. The cleanup alone is an enormous undertaking. Hazmat teams from the US EPA, from FEMA, have to remove all the toxic stuff and the explosive stuff like propane tanks, car batteries. They have to remove the car batteries out of cars

that were left in the burn zone. This is the most complex part of the process. And then once that's done, then you start to remove the structural debris. Basically everything left from the thousands of structures and cars burned down. We are talking truckloads and truckloads and truckloads of debris being removed and trucked off in a city where there is always, always traffic. And then at some point, you test the soil, make sure it's safe to even build on.

Okay, so that's the cleanup. But to rebuild, people need money, which brings us to insurance. Insurance. Now, the larger, very complex issue here is whether the private market will even want to insure homes in California at all anymore because of the fire threats, and whether the state is going to have to intervene even more in home insurance than it already does. homes in California at all anymore because of the fire threats and whether the state is going to have to intervene even more in home insurance than it already does. And obviously some people affected by the fires didn't have insurance or didn't have

enough insurance. But for those fortunate enough to have coverage, here's how getting paid out might work. When Aaron and many others lost their homes to the fires, they got money from their insurance company right away to cover hotels, motels, rent, whatever, for a couple of months. But that's just the small check, right? Yeah, yeah, the big checks, the checks that say, okay, here, rebuild with this,

they don't come until after the insurance company decides how much money it will take to replace your home and all your possessions. Pete Slauson Except how do you figure that out when there's nothing left standing? Well, there are people whose job that is. Insurance adjusters. And they tend to get around. What disasters have you worked? Lee Lindstrom Hurricane Katrina, Hurricane Ike, Hurricane

Sandy, Hurricane Irma, the Christchurch New Zealand earthquake, Hurricane Odile. I'm trying to remember all the hurricanes. There's a lot of them. This is Leland Koontz. And then that's not counting all the California disasters. Leland has been an insurance adjuster for something like 20 years. So I just met this guy, Aaron. He lost his house.

He lost his business. Say you walk into his house. As an insurance adjuster. As an insurance adjuster, working for the insurance company, working for the insurance company, if it's totally destroyed, what, what do you do? Okay. You need to try to create an estimate most of the time. So how do you write an estimate when it's burned to the ground? Well, for one thing, the concrete foundation is still there.

So Leland will measure the foundation, and then like a detective, he'll start sorting through the rubble, looking for signs of the life that used to be there. So he can put a price tag on it. There's always clues in the debris, and after a while, I've looked at debris and ashes for so long, I can look at some little wires and say, well, that's a hairdryer.

But with a fire this devastating, there's only so much you can find. So adjusters ask homeowners to come up with a list of every single thing that was in their house. Every chair, every fork, every family heirloom. If they have receipts, better. Extra helpful, photos. From birthdays and parties when grandma came from Kansas City for Thanksgiving, she took some pictures of the kids, and yeah, it's a picture of the kid, but the sink is in the background. And then with all of this, adjusters will start to add up the

value of everything that was in the house, element by element, in this special estimating software. You put in the toilets, the countertops, the tiles in the shower, and then the software adds up all the materials, multiplies them by the average cost of those materials, adjusts it for the local labor market, and comes up with an estimate for how much it will cost to replace the homeowner's house and possessions. But Leland says the insurance companies are not all that incentivized

to get into the nitty-gritty details. He says when he worked for the insurance companies, the system incentivized him to clear cases as soon as possible. Imagine if you're an executive insurance company. Do you have a big financial incentive to train the adjusters on how to do a sliding glass door correctly and add all the line items? A little bit maybe. They want to be professional sometimes, but it's not like a main driver of their business.

If you're sensing a little skepticism towards the insurance industry from Leland, here's why. Leland doesn't work for an insurance company anymore. He used to, but now he's what's called a public adjuster. He's essentially a hired gun. If an adjuster from an insurance company comes back with an estimate that is way lower than what a homeowner thinks it should be, then they can hire someone like Leland to give a second opinion.

Yeah, like the company's adjuster might just calculate the cost of retiling a shower. But Leland says that if you mark down that the shower's tiles were installed diagonally rather than straight, you get a bigger check from the insurance company. There's a lot of money in the details. These details are how you get to a higher estimate. By the way, public adjusters are paid a percentage of your payout, usually 10% of your new settlement, though it can be much higher, up to like 30%. And that is the incentive for Leland to fight with insurance companies over every single line item.

And if this seems like a weird way for people to get what they're owed from insurance companies, yes, something seems funky here. Is it a good system? No. Very dysfunctional system. The things I'm describing to you, the neurotic level of detail, the mistrust on both sides, the average person can't figure it out and they get taken advantage of. I can come in and I'll be honest, I can make really good money by doing my part in this very dysfunctional system. I make my money off the dysfunctionality.

Now, public adjusters are not the most well-liked people around the industry. They can have a sketchy reputation, kind of like personal injury lawyers circling the scene of a disaster. Officials in California have been warning fire victims to watch out for shady public adjusters. They note that sometimes a homeowner can be left with less money to rebuild than if they hadn't hired the public adjuster at all. Because of that big commission, they have to pay the adjuster.

But for homeowners who are unhappy with an insurance company's estimate, sometimes public adjusters make sense. We did reach out to insurance industry trade groups. In a statement, the president of the National Association of Mutual Insurance Companies rejected that idea that insurance companies prioritize speed over accuracy, saying quote, California requires insurers to handle claims timely as well as diligently.

Public adjusters have no greater motivation for accuracy than anyone else. So yeah, that's the insurance side, or two sides of the insurance side. Yeah, the next phase would be construction, but we're not even really gonna get into the insurance side. Yeah, the next phase would be construction, but we're not even really going to get into the construction side of things because that is still months away. But just think about all the moving pieces there, right?

Like getting a single house built can feel like an absolute miracle. Putting up 15,000 new homes and businesses, structures at the same time. People are going to need contractors, building plans from architects. They're going to need engineers to sign off on everything. Plumbers, electricians, carpenters. Yeah, the permitting process alone is going to be a lot. There's also traffic getting all the construction trucks in and out of all these neighborhoods.

Plus, there are already shortages of labor. There are already supply chain issues for building materials. One construction manager told us those could get even worse if President Trump follows through on his promises of raising tariffs and starting mass deportations. The construction industry is very dependent on workers without legal immigration status. It could be years and years before these neighborhoods are really neighborhoods again and there's no guarantee that what comes next will capture any of what made Alta Dena special

in the first place. The craftsman-style homes, the 80-year-old hardware store, the diner, the diner with my three-year-old's favorite shrimp and grits. Residents are now being let back in to see for themselves where things stand, including Aaron and Jahad. It's been two weeks since the fire started.

The last time Jahad was here, he watched his business burn to the ground. And today, he's gonna go back to look at it. There's a new checkpoint now further into the burn zone, and that's where we meet up. Yeah, this is, wow, I haven't seen it. The back of all this shit, this is something else. Jod's business or what's left of it is a block away.

You're gonna drive in? Yeah I'm gonna drive in. Okay. He may try to see his childhood home too if his dad is up for it. I don't want to encroach on that moment for you or your dad. So I feel like I should just let you guys go here and- Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Yeah. Okay. Good luck, Jihad. Yeah. He gets in his car, drives off through the checkpoint. He's past the National Guards. Okay. He's in. This is this is the start of the whole process. For him and his dad. If you were looking for more reporting on the California fires, we have some in newsletter form.

Greg Wazowski, who writes our amazing newsletter, talked to an economist about how she would fix the state's broken home insurance market and why research suggests that big fires actually increase home values. The latest edition of the Planet Money newsletter has that story. And our NPR Plus subscribers, thank you if you are one, can listen into Greg's interview on our next bonus episode. This episode of Planet Money was produced by James Snead. It was edited by Keith Romer, fact-checked by Sierra Juarez, and engineered by Neil Tavolt with help from Gillymoon. Alex Goldmark is Planet Money's executive producer.

We talked to so many people for this story, but we want to especially thank Jodie Mendelson, Jacob Affir, John Sisson, and Kate Christensen. Thanks also to Andrea Diamond. I'm Nick Fountain. And I'm Sarah Gonzalez. This is NPR. Thanks for listening. Support for NPR and the following message come from the Kauffman Foundation, providing

access to opportunities that help people achieve financial stability, upward mobility, and economic prosperity, regardless of race, gender, or geography. kauffman.org. And a special thanks to our funder, the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, for helping to support this podcast.