Planetary Radio: Space Exploration, Astronomy and Science - A new chapter at The Planetary Society: Jennifer Vaughn becomes CEO

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

This week on Planetary Radio, we mark a major leadership transition at The Planetary Society. Host Sarah Al-Ahmed sits down with Bill Nye, outgoing chief executive officer and newly appointed chief ambassador of The Planetary Society, and Jennifer Vaughn, incoming chief executive officer and former chief operating officer, for a candid conversation about this long-planned transition. Together, Bill and Jenn reflect on how the organization, under their shared leadership, grew into the world’s largest and most effective nonprofit dedicated to advancing the scientific exploration of space. Then, Bruce Betts, chief scientist of The Planetary Society, joins Sarah for What’s Up. They discuss an upcoming planetary alignment on and around February 28, 2026. Discover more at: https://www.planetary.org/planetary-radio/2026-jennifer-vaughn-ceoSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A new chapter begins at the Planetary Society, this week on Planetary Radio. I'm Sarah al-Ahmad of the Planetary Society, with more of the human adventure across our solar system and beyond. This week's episode is a special one. After 15 years as our CEO, Bill Nye is stepping into a new role as chief ambassador of the Planetary Society. I sat down with Bill and our incoming CEO, Jennifer Vaughn, to talk about this transition. what it feels like, why now, and what the future of our organization really looks like from the inside. I'm so excited for you all to get to know more about Jen.

She's been a guiding force within the Planetary Society and a champion for the scientific exploration of space for decades. She's also one of the kindest and most skilled leaders I have ever met. To mark this moment, our staff flew in from across the United States and Canada to gather at our headquarters in Pasadena, California. We don't all get to be in the same room very often, so we took the opportunity to really work. It was three days of brainstorming of what the next chapter of our organization looks like. Of course, there were hugs and cake and karaoke, but mostly it was thoughtful conversations about our future.

People who have been working at the organization for decades, sat alongside people who joined just this year. All of us trying to figure out how we can make this movement for space science and exploration. stronger in the years ahead. You'll also hear a beautiful moment from the gathering as Bill ceremonially passes the torch to Jen. And then Dr. Bruce Betts, our chief scientist, joins me for what's up. We'll look forward to an upcoming planetary alignment in the night sky on and around February 28th. If you love Planetaria Radio and want to stay informed about the latest space discoveries, make sure you hit that subscribe button on your favorite podcasting platform. By subscribing, you'll never miss an episode filled with new and awe-inspiring ways to know the cosmos and our place within it.

This leadership transition comes at a really pivotal moment for the planetary society. Just weeks ago, we were facing the possibility of a nearly 50% cut to NASA's science budget. It would have reshaped the future of planetary exploration for a generation, not just in the United States, but around the world. The damage to NASA would have cascaded onto our international partners, and the scientists who depend on that funding to help understand our place in the universe. Through our Save NASA Science campaign, working alongside our partner organizations and thousands of engaged supporters around the world, the United States Congress restored NASA's

science funding. When people who love space show up together, they can change the course of history. Of course, there are still battles ahead. There always are. But right now, we're standing in the afterglow of a hard-fought victory. The organization is strong. Our members are engaged, but the stakes for space science remain very high. Over the past 15 years, under the leadership of Bill Nye and Jennifer Vaughn, the Planetary Society has grown into the world's largest and most effective nonprofit organization dedicated to the advancement of the scientific exploration of space. And it's in that context that Bill is stepping out of his role as CEO and into a new one as our chief ambassador. He's not going away. He's going to continue to represent the society as a champion for exploration

around the world. And this transition didn't happen overnight. It's something that we've been planning very carefully, making sure that it reflects who we are and carries us forward from a position of strength. And at the center of that next chapter is Jennifer Vaughn. Jen began working at the Planetary Society not long after the death of our co-founder Carl Sagan. The organization was grieving. The future was very uncertain. She arrived at a moment where belief in the mission mattered deeply. She grew alongside the society, helping to build its membership and guide its programs and strengthen our advocacy work. We launched our light sail missions. We saved Europa Clipper from the chopping block, along with many other missions. And recently,

we helped save NASA science. As chief operating officer, officer, Jen has shaped much of what this organization has become over the past two decades. So I sat down with Bill and Jen to talk about what it means to pass and receive this responsibility. And where they believe the Planetary Society is headed next. Hey, Bill and Jen. Thanks for joining me. Thanks for having us. Thank you so much. And good to see you both at HQ during our co-working week.

It's always so much fun to see you all in person, but also to have the entire Planetary Society crew in one place. What a week. So everybody understand. People that work with plantaries live all over the place. Two people flew in from Canada, from Denver, San Francisco. Somebody who lived in New York is now moving out west on and so on and so on. So it's good to have everybody together. We had a kind of emotional moment earlier today.

And our listeners, our listeners will hear this later on in the show. But you had a moment. You actually kind of exchanged the moment of power, the CEO, role from Bill to Jen. So is it officially happened? Is this the moment that you are now no longer officially, the CEO of the Planetary Society, Bill? By the time you hear this, I will not be CEO. Jennifer Vaughn will be CEO.

But it's been 15 years. I mean, you've done so much in this role. We've accomplished so much. Is this a bittersweet moment for you? Or is this something that you've really been looking forward to kind of laying down this burden? Oh, I've been looking forward to this. No, no, I'll tell you guys, you know, the guy at the start. circus with the plates on the sticks and the saber dance.

And then he runs back. Yeah, I've been looking. All the plates are spinning. There's no plate wobbling that's about to fall off of its post. Why is now the moment that you feel like it's time to step out of this role? Is it just a nice round 15 years or is there some moment in your life that you've kind of decided is the catalyst for this? Both. 15 years is a round number. My anniversary was in September of 2025 for you listeners who may not be listening in 2026. And I turned 70, 7-0 years old. So it's a round number, but a good one. So I think this is a good time. And by the way, everybody, they're not letting me leave. I'm staying on the payroll as chief ambassador. Because I think where I, you can, you can, you can.

I can ask around, but I think where I'm effective is on Capitol Hill. And interacting with space professionals about the reason that we do what we do, which is to advance the scientific exploration of space. And that's where I can contribute, and I hope to continue to contribute in those venues. I'm really glad you're going to be sticking around. I mean, in so many ways, the notoriety you bring is very helpful to the planetary society, I think, also just you as a person as someone who's been leading our organization and as a human who I've known for a while, I'd be very sad for you to entirely leave. So knowing that you're stepping into

this role, we're still going to be going to Washington, D.C. together. That makes me feel so happy about this because we're not going to be losing you, Bill. So thank you, Sarah. I mean, everybody, keep in mind, I am OG on this thing. I joined the society in 1980 as a regular person who had taken one class from the famous guy, Carl Sagan, stayed connected to the society. They asked me to be on the board, then to be vice president, an unpaid position. And then when Lou Friedman was going to step down,

they were looking around for somebody to step in 15 years ago. And they asked me to do it. And here we are. Well, I know you had a bit of kind of trepidation stepping into that role of CEO. And I think in part, that's because you're one of the most self-deprecating humans I've ever known. And you do so many amazing things, but at the same time, I think you're keenly aware of where you could be better.

And it comes out like, I'm just a human guy. But honestly, reading what you said when you first took on the role, I was like, he's so prepared for this. And I don't think he feels it. It might be a little bit of imposter syndrome in there. Oh, man. Fake it till you make it. That's me. You guys, I was a producer on a kids television show.

It is a leadership role. ain't quite the same as trying to influence Congress to fund NASA's Science Mission Directorate. It's a little different thing. But it's worked out. And what we've been able to do, and Jennifer will go on and on soon, we've accumulated the best crew we've ever had. We have hired the best group we've ever had. And it's because of Jennifer's leadership.

As chief operating officer, she has just made excellent decision after excellent decision. When you joined the Planetary Society ages ago, you were one of our earliest members. But Jen, you've been working here for almost 30 years at this point. You got it. What was it like working under all the other CEOs? So it was Lou Friedman for 30 years. And I think it was maybe hard for those of us who had been with the organization for a while to imagine moving on without Lou. Lou was the organization in many ways.

When we learned it was going to be Bill, I think everyone very quickly saw this is going to be great. This is going to be great for the organization. And this is going to be a lot of fun. So there was also this sense of excitement that we were going to get this passion and excitement and humor and care. I mean, Bill is such a caring person and it comes right through right away. it was an easy transition. I think what might have been the most challenging for us at the time was thinking through how the organization comes across.

We started off with the voice and the vibe and maybe a bit of the branding of Carl Sagan. And then Lou continued in that tradition. And with Bill, we recognized, well, this is a very different feeling. And so we were just talking earlier about that word avuncular. You have that sense of like you're the fun uncle showing up to get us all excited about science and about space and about the future and the optimism, that role model out there. And so we were able to shape the organization to match the spirit of Bill. So avoncular, everybody, is a great word. Having the characteristics of or pertaining to an uncle.

Come on. It's not saying, I have some experience as an uncle. I have thousands of nieces and, okay, maybe seven. Thousands of them. Maybe seven. Nises and nephews. And I've got grand nieces, grand nephews, all these people. But that aside, it is, I'm a different personality from Lou, especially from Bruce Murray.

Yeah. Who is one of the founders who considered himself an proudly, an intellectual, as a professor at Caltech. And these guys had clear vision. as to what NASA ought to be doing. Although I may feel some of that, that's not always the best way to approach things. So did my best to shape the organization. But, Jen, you were there when not everybody who is here now

was there when I took over or when you started working here. Very true. Yeah, no, of course. That's the way these things work. People come, people go. there is this constant change. And what we've been able to say throughout this 10 year of bills is that we're working with the best team we've ever worked with.

And as Bill rightly points out, we meant it when we said it 10 years ago. We mean it now. And that just means that the team is consistently, as I like to say, leveling up. Everyone's getting better all the time. Each time we're reaching out and bringing new people on board, I think we have moved our expectations to a new level as well. And so it just grows and develops and we're just so proud of the group of people that are making the planetary size future reality. So for those of you're listening, you listen every week to Plan Rad, as Matt says, Matt Kaplan, the original host of this podcast. We flew Light Sail 1, just barely.

Just barely. We flew light sail too, and that was not just barely. That worked. It worked really well. Then you guys probably know the last few months there's been a proposal to cut NASA science funding and cut NASA 20 percent, a fifth. Get rid of all these people, lay them off and tell them to take another job. And then cut NASA science by half, 47 percent. Well, it is the effort of the planetary society that stopped that.

We pushed back, got members of Congress, in the Senate to not put up with this and push back. And that's because of the financial support from listeners like you, because of the development department, because of communications getting the word out, and because of the expertise we have now in policy, the two guys who work full-time in policy, we are able to do this analysis and marshal these resources and lead 19 other science organizations in changing the course of space history. So that's all something we couldn't have done 15 years ago. We didn't have the means. No. But it's everybody pushing the one direction, in the same direction. And it's because of

leadership from Jennifer. I mean, it's fabulous. From Bill. Yeah. No, you. Both of you together, though. You've worked hand in hand for all of these years. So it's really comforting knowing that in this moment, as we're making this transition, that it's not like we're taking on an unfamiliar your person into the midst of this organization that does something so specialized and so specific and so important. We know that we can trust Jen and we know that she knows how to CEO because she's been working with you all this time. You use the term partnership.

Yeah. No, it's always felt like a really solid partnership. Yeah. I've just loved working with you. Oh, I love working with you. I love working with you. I have loved all. There's a lot to it, you guys.

So what we have done at the Planetary Society, largely. everybody with Jennifer's leadership is promote from within and bring in expertise from the outside. I feel we have a very good mix of people of longtime people and new people who share the vision who are contributing in niches, boxes, areas that we just didn't have capability in before. We're bringing in people from the outside. But I think about there's a couple of stories. One day I said to you 15 years ago, or let's say 14 and a half years ago, you know, I think we should hire Brandon full time. Brandon Schultz is our Internet or Information Technology guy.

And you said something like, I did that three weeks ago, Bill. Good idea, Bill. Yeah. You should hire Matt Kaplan full time. Yeah, I did that last year, Bill. what you have, Jennifer, is this excellent judgment of people. You guys, we're recording a Planetary Society headquarters. I'm very proud of the building.

If you haven't visited, I encourage you to swing by. Call ahead because ever since the pandemic, people are only really here now and then physically. Call ahead and we'll greet you and wander around. But assembling the crew, the team, has been just really fantastic. It's always the people. Are the asset here at the Planetary Society. Yep, and that's our team. It's also our members.

It's our broader community. It's all of us working together in this movement, this movement for the scientific exploration of space. And nothing showcases as well, I think, as what we just went through, where we had a long period of time where NASA budgets were pretty strong. And so we didn't have a crisis. to go after. And we kept this movement going all throughout by celebrating,

by having a great time on planetary radio, by keeping people deeply involved with the organization and its mission, reminding people that we are all here pushing for a future in space. And then when the crises came, we were ready. We were absolutely ready to go. And that says a lot about ultimately how well everyone is working together and the clarity of the purpose of this organization. And so we're talking about the past, you guys, and that's good. But I am very excited about the future.

Jen, what do you have planned for the next five years? What do I have planned? No, what do we have planned? We've been working all week, just really trying to internalize. this next chapter for the planetary society. And it is not surprisingly fully informed by what we just went through. This idea that we were able to move quickly and effectively and make change because we have this movement.

And so we are going to work more on building that movement. So we are very committed to trying to increase the global appreciation for the scientific exploration of space, specifically trying to know more about our place in the cosmos and what it means for us here. We're going to be mobilizing. We're going to be finding ways to connect people who share this passion and get them more engaged, more involved with the society, more involved with their communities, more involved with taking action. We're going to lead. We're going to bring scientists and engineers together. We're going to build coalitions. We of course are going to be advocating and seed funding science and technology. And we are working to thrive. We're nearing

our 50th anniversary, as you know, at 2030 will be 50 years of the Planetary Society. So we want the Planetary Society to be the strongest, healthiest organization it can be. So it's ready to launched in new heights in that new chapter. And everybody talking about the start of the organization and what's happened in the last 45 and a half, going on 46 years. When Carl Sagan produced the original cosmos, you can look at episode four.

Oh, the ancient dinosaurs disappeared. Nobody knows why. Moving on. Okay. But then the next three years after that, between 1980, 1983, the Alvarez has figured out their fossil, ancient dinosaur fossils, below the layer of iridium around the world

and none above it. And the layer of iridium almost certainly came from an asteroid. Very rare in the earth's crust, very common in an asteroid because it's so dense, it sinks to the middle, I understand. So you guys, that's just an example

of something, a discovery made since the organization was started. Well, another one that immediately comes to mind is early in the days of the planetary society, there was a lot of speculation about exoplanets. Are there any?

Do they actually exist? We funded early research studies. Back in the early 80s, it was one of our first projects was this hypothetical idea of planets around other stars. And now we have more than 6,000 confirmed. I mean, it's just amazing how much that has changed in a relatively short amount of time. Right. And you came on to the planetary society right around that time of that first deep

field image from Hubble that blew the lids off all of our brains, but also just around the time of Carl Sagan's passing and that moment in the history of the Planetary Society, what was it like for you to join the organization in that time of morning? Well, it's interesting because when you're young and just stepping into it, you don't fully understand. It takes time to be able to look back and say, wow, that was a profound moment I stepped into. So, indeed, there was a deep grief. So when I was hired, when I got the call, that I got the job, Carl was still alive. But when I started, he had just passed.

Wow, I didn't realize that. So I really... 1996. Yeah. I really walked in right then in that moment. And while Carl wasn't a day-to-day figure, he really had this spiritual leadership over the organization. And there was a deep sense of questioning of how do we move forward now. And there's a lot of focus on the scientific integrity that Carl brought to everything that we did.

And what do we do? Do we organize an entire group of scientists that are advising us? Do we bring more scientists onto the board? How are we going to handle this? What role is Bruce Murray going to have now without Carl? Does anything change with Lou's job? It was a lot. So we had a lot of meetings back then. And I didn't really, I didn't notice for sure that there was an emotional heaviness to the organization. Well, I didn't recognize is how much of that was probably just grief and confusion, you know, just this newness that no one really could get their heads around just yet.

You've triggered a memory, my friend. So as you guys know, through, if I may, self-deprecating fashion, a clerical error. I got into Cornell University of Mechanical Engineering. I finished my requirements and then as a senior, I took a freshman class from Carl Sagan. That's how I got involved in this whole thing. Okay. So I got invited back to Ithaca to speak at Carl Sagan's memorial service. and that's where

Lou Friedman, founder of the Planetary Society, came up to me and asked me to join the board and I'm thinking back about his manner, his posture, his gait at that meeting or that event, rather, he carried that heaviness that you're describing. And I admit I'd not really stopped to think about that until just now.

Interesting. Thank you. It was a big deal. It was a big deal, not just for the organization, but for the space community in general. I think even to this day, I mourn his passing. I wish I got to meet him. But for lack of a better way to say it, I feel his presence in this building and in the spirit of the people here every day.

But also, it's those moments of sadness that give us pause and make us re-contextualize our lives, right? And I think it's an interesting point to make is that, Jen, you came around to your love of space kind of later in life. And in part because of a moment of hardship in your own personal life. Someone in your family got sick. And through that experience, you kind of came around to your love of space. How did that happen? Yeah. Yeah.

Thank you for bringing that up. Yeah. So I meandered my way into space. I had a dear friend of mine who that was kind of his catchphrase was meander, darling. And I think I did just that. where I had followed a love of literature and I'd followed a love of poetry. And that was my route into university. And I really enjoyed writing.

And then I became in love with publishing. I really loved the process of publishing other people's thoughts. And so I was on one path that I thought was going to be down the publishing path and maybe this new fledged thing called the Internet. And kind of around the time I was nearing my probably senior year at the time in college, my mother had a stroke. And it's one of those things where you're still in that stage of your life where, you know, if you're lucky enough, you're feeling that you're invincible and no one ever dies and

things don't go wrong. And I had been pretty fortunate so far in my life to avoid those things. And so I was having kind of a reckoning with tragedy. And I had been reading or doing like a research project on a poem from Adrian Rich called Orion. And I had had to do kind of a response poem, my own version of an Orion poem to respond to Adrian Riches. And I had been working with a professor during this time. and I had a very long night driving to the Bay Area from Southern California, so that's a good six, seven hour drive in the middle of the night in the fall.

And my best friend was driving me and I was crying and I was watching Orion rise in, you know, the constellation. Yes, the constellation. And of course, I'm thinking about Adrian Rich and I'm thinking about my own poem response that I had done. and there was something in that moment where there was an awakening. And this is, I think, with everyone in their space love story, it's about an awakening. And I had this awakening that night that it was just clear that this is my own little moment of crises. But Orion is a reminder of all the people who have ever lived on this planet have looked up in the night sky.

and they've seen this. They've seen these stars and everything moves on. And we're part of something so much bigger and so much more beautiful. And in that moment of understanding kind of like, again, my place in space, it kind of goes back to that

as I had a moment where I felt my place in space and my place in humanity, my place in history. It allowed me to face a very tough moment in a new way. So I had had this experience that was all internal. And then I got back to school and my very, very kind professor, who I will always be grateful to, just said, I imagine you haven't been sleeping so well. I don't sleep well either. So I learn about stars. So here's some background I've done for you on all the stars of Orion.

Learn about Orion, learn about the Orion Nebula. And it was my entree. And so, like, I just stepped into this world that I knew nothing about, nothing. But because I'd written a poem and an explication on another person's poem, all of a sudden, he just, like, reached out his hand and just brought me in. And then I was able, a year later, whatever it was, I was looking for a job, to look at a publishing job, which is my own. what I wanted to do at the Planetary Society and say, maybe I could do this. Maybe I could actually

take my interest of publishing and work for a space organization and really dig into this. And so it was, it was a moment that really set me on my trajectory. And you started with the planetary report, right? I did. I was editorial assistant on the planetary report. And I was half time on the website, which was really the early days of the website. And so I did a lot of hand coding of HTML, uploading images of Pathfinder. And back then you had to kind of piece jobs together to make a full-time job.

So I was like half over here and half over here. And part of my job was on another project that got funding outside. And so it was hard to get a full-time job at the time. Bruce Murray said, you know, Lou, this internet, this could be our breakout. strategy. You know, we're going to be the only ones doing it. Well, I paraphrase a little bit. And in many ways, the digital revolution has been a massive breakout strategy for us, because

when we, before then, our entire reach was our membership. And while the membership is the core of all we do and is like the engine of this organization, our reach, is huge now. Our reach is so huge. And it's because we have things like podcasts and the website and social media. This is a way to bring so many more people into this movement,

to this collective passion for the exploration of space, so much more than we were ever able to do when we were all just getting a magazine in the mail. Because the magazine still, many, many of our members, and I'm among them, I'm of a certain age. I like the paper glossy magazine with a happy glossy photos. I love when it shows up in the mail.

It makes me so happy. I know. I collect all of them. Yeah, it makes me really happy. We'll be right back with the rest of my interview with Bill Nye and Jennifer Vaughn after the short break. Hi, y'all. Lovar Burton here. Through my roles on Star Trek and Reading Rainbow, I have seen generations of curious minds

inspired by the strange new worlds explored in books and on television. I know how important it is to encourage that curiosity in a young explorer's life. That's why I'm excited to share with you a new program from my friends at the Planetary Society. It's called the Planetary Academy and anyone can join. Designed for ages 5 through 9 by Bill Nye and the curriculum experts at the Planetary Society, the Planetary Academy is a special membership subscription for kids and families who, love space. Members get quarterly mailed packages that take them on learning adventures through the many worlds of our solar system and beyond. Each package includes images and factoids, hands-on

activities, experiments and games, and special surprises. A lifelong passion for space, science, and discovery starts when we're young. Give the gift of the cosmos to the explorer in your life. You started a CEO in a very challenging time for the planetary society. And then in this moment, in the last few weeks, as we've made this announcement that we are changing CEOs, I got this flood of messages. It was like, oh, no, did something happen? Is something wrong? They imagine that it has to take some kind of moment of crisis for a change in leadership. But actually, it was because everything was going right.

That's right. Right? Everything is going extremely well. Doesn't mean we don't need your support. You're on the website. Hit the donate by me. donate, donate, donate, hit it over and over often. But things are really good shape.

So as Jen takes over, it's very smooth. It's interesting because, you know, you've been here around for quite a long time, like 30 years, right? How did you go from working on the magazine to chief operations officer and now CEO? Like, what was the arc in those intervening years? Yeah, it's wild, isn't it? Yeah. I look back on it and think, oh, I'm not quite sure how that happened. And I think a lot of it is people taking chances with me.

I've been so supported in this organization. And again, I couldn't. Jen, you're so good at it. You're so competent. That's why people kept taking chances. You know, everybody, so when I took over this and that, look, I'm an engineer. Love math. Kooky for a spreadsheet, all good.

But there were a lot of personnel issues. There was who's going to say what to whom. And so the board wanted me to hire somebody whose title would be managing director. So to help Bill get anything done. And Jennifer took over and things just got better and better and better. And then see, if you look up chief operating officer in the dictionary, that may be an older reference for some of you. you will see her picture. I mean, she's just brilliant.

So kind. It's really far too kind. I was thinking, though, back on your question, which in a lot of ways, when you work in a small organization, there's a lot that needs to be done. Always. You never have enough team

to do all of the activities. And so what that allows for is a lot of learning opportunities. And to be able step in and just take on new work. And so I started on the publishing side for sure. I was just a full-on editor. That's what I did. I edited and I did web work. But with time, I was able to get more deeply involved with marketing and direct marketing, understanding the real financial processes that help keep the organization strong, became more involved with development. And then over time, I had a

bit of my hands and everything. And so I think that that's why I was positioned to be able to make a move into the operating position. And I realized once I was in the operating position, that was a job I always wanted.

I just didn't know I wanted it beforehand. But I do love the holistic work of non-profit development. So it is, I love seeing all the pieces working together towards something great.

And so that's what's really lit me up over this time. And I'll admit, I'm actually very comfortable being a little bit in the background. So I think that their partnership with Bill has been perfect, too, because I've been able to really focus on the nonprofit management side of the house. And it's great that you're out there and you're still going to be out there, which is fantastic. I'll be ambassadating. It'll be ambassadorsating. I love it.

So everybody, what we're going to do, just spiritually org chart-wise, there are people on the board of directors who have said for years, put us out there, let us get out there. Okay, people, pay attention. It's going to be Jim Bell, Bethany Elman, Brittany Schmidt, these people, we're going to put them out there, man. And then Casey Dreyer, Chief of Policy, you're going to see him. Jack Carralli, you're going to see him.

We're going to change. from having me always get the call from CNN or what have you to having the right issue be addressed by the right person. You got it. That's perfect. And you are going to manage that. Yeah, I am. Yeah. And occasionally, you know, I'm the right person to talk about it like right now. But for the most part, it is going to be this shared role as far as who is out there speaking for the organization.

It's going to be fun having both of you in D.C. together as we all go for a day of action and do things like that. Are you excited to take a little bit more of that role on being out there and about kind of being more of a public voice for the planetary society? I am. I really am. So I say that indeed I'm very comfortable in the process that we've had. So that's been something that suits me. but I'm always up for a challenge and what I think I'm most excited about is this next year

we're doing a tour we're getting out on the road This is a cool idea This is all her idea you guys And I'm really excited to get out there and talk with members So we don't have the full list of cities just yet but maybe even by the time this airs

We will we're laying that out right now And the idea is that We gather members in different areas of the country for now, and then we'll start looking beyond the U.S. borders, and just get a chance to get to know people and also to become more known, because indeed, I've been here for a long time, but a lot of people don't know me. And also, they don't know the planetary society, as well as we weren't everybody in the world. You know, we're at 40,000 members.

The dream is to get to 100,000 members, million. Or 200,000. 200,000, sure. So stay tuned to everybody. And if you're listening to this podcast, thank you for your support. If you're a member, thank you, thank you for your support. If for some reason you stumbled onto this podcast and you're not a member,

check us out at planetary.org. I think both of you have been just so wonderful in your previous roles. And you're both so skilled in what you do. But the thing that I value most in both of you is just how kind and compassionate it, you both are. I know I've seen it in my own personal life and the conversations we've had, but also in the last year, I've seen it in the relationship between you. Like, there was a very difficult moment about a year ago. The Eat in fire, eight Altadena. So many fires in the area happened. I was just a few blocks outside of that evacuation zone. So I escaped it. But did everything

smell like smoke for you? Absolutely. You know, even my cat had horrible eye crusties and respiratory issues. It was, it was stressful. So awful. But, Jen, you lost your home. And in the midst of a lot. You guys, I went by her a lot many months later. God. It's just, the mailbox was still there, and there was an orange tree with sort of not all the way dead.

You guys, I know you've heard about the fires in California last year. It was a real deal. It was. And I think something really interesting that happened in that moment is that when you lost your home, Jen, you and your family were able to find a place as you found your new footing, because Bill provided you a place to stay in his home. Exactly. And when people ask me, what is it like to work at the Planetary Society?

Or what is Bill Nye like as a boss? I always like to come back to this story, not because, like, you know, trauma dumping, but because I think it gets to something really important about the planetary society and our identity as an organization, not just as one that wants to advance the scientific exploration of space, but humanely. And with that idea of the way that that knowledge and that community and that society makes us better and allows us to contextualize each other, but also makes us more kind toward one another. Yeah, and I really cannot thank you enough for that. Well, it's worked out great.

No, I mean, it is those moments too. And I think by going through that, we had it just relatively easy because we has such wonderful support. But going through that also taught me a lot. about how I can help others in the future. Because you notice, you really notice when you need it. And people are there and doing things like, please, Jen, stay longer. I'm good over here on the other coast.

Just stay put. Take your time. And I knew he meant it. I know how I think to be even more generous and kind to others now. and I love that you're bringing up the kindness attribute because it is such a part of this environment and it stems from you, Bill. You're a very, very kind person.

God, listen to you guys. It's true. You absolutely are. You love people. Most of them. There are few. I figured I led you into that. We got a one-way ticket to Mars.

Wow. No, but you really do. It shows in all you do. It shows in the show that you created all those years back. You see the best in people. And you saw the best in children. You saw the best in what humanity can do for the world. You definitely see the best in what humanity can bring to our future in science and exploration.

And so it really does permeate throughout the organization. I think certainly within our team, but I hope it permeates in all. all that we provide the world as well. I hope people can see it in our work. Got to say, back at you. So she leads the meetings, Jennifer, and nowadays many of the meetings are conducted remotely because people are all over the place.

And you just say, we care about you, we want to know what you're doing. It's all you. You lead, pal. Not to go on and on. You've got listeners. We're trying to cover some ground, but cover some orbits.

But Jen is just a natural leader. It's going to be better than ever, you guys. Thank you for your support. But really, though, I feel like we're trying to put even more society in the planetary society. And we're not only giving people a sense of community that I wish I had more of when I was younger, but also letting them know that we care through our advocacy actions, right? The scientific community in the United States, but also in the world beyond for the last year, has been suffering.

And I think a lot of people have taken solace in our efforts to try to support that community. And it very much stems from the kindness that you both have shown. And it makes me very happy to know that we didn't have to look outside. We had someone here all along who could take on that new CEO role and that kindness that is the heart of the planetary society, that wonder and that joy. And the passion for communication that you've had forever, Jen. That's going to stay with us and be the cornerstone along with Bill as our new chief ambassador and the entire team to go on to this next era in one of the coolest eras of space exploration ever. You guys, we're about to make just discoveries that are going to change the world. We are so close.

Life elsewhere, an actual way to keep from getting hit with an asteroid. And the farther and deeper we look, the more discoveries are going to, I think all the time. I was talking about this today. All four of my grandparents were born in the 1800s. I'm of a certain age. They didn't know there was relativity, let alone that it would end up in your mobile phone. Wild. You know what I mean?

Quantum mechanics. There was no one had any idea when they were born. They lived through discovery of the neutron, discovery of nuclear energy and so on. They lived through discovery of the Big Bang, Black Hole. neutrons stars, white dwe, the whole thing. People don't know what's going on in the cosmos, but I would not be surprised. In the next 30 years, it gets figured out.

And it ends up in the spiritual equivalent of the future phone, whatever that is. I can't wait. People are going to be looking back on this conversation and saying, they didn't know that it was machos or whims or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's why this space never stops giving.

That's right. We're just on the verge of some extraordinary stuff. Absolutely. And the wonder is endless. So there's always more to explore and learn and grow from. It's amazing. Can't wait. Well, onward, you guys.

It now begins a totally new era of the planetary society, but not so new. Familiar and slightly changed. You got it. Well, thank you so much for taking the time to sit down with me. And for all that you've both done to my own. life, but the role that you've played at the Planetary Society, you've helped so many people through your passion, but also they've helped us. All together, we are building this movement for something that I think is so beautiful and meaningful, but not just for us, for all the generations

that come. So well said. So well said. Let's do this. Yep. Let's do this. I'm going to remember having that conversation with Bill and Jen for the rest of my life, probably. Just before the music started and the cake came out, we all gather. in one room. The transition wasn't elaborate, just Bill and Jen marking this transition in their own way, surrounded by the team that will carry this work forward. So Jennifer is taking over. Yes, please. This is for you from me. As you may know, many of us are wearing pins, as we call them, with magnetic fastening. But from time to time, people on our staff

managed to issue a pin that is literally golden. So I would like to take my great hands and put it on your hotel. That's really sweet. That's very, very sweet. It's so proud of you, I'm so proud to know all of you. With Jen's leadership, you all are going to,

you all are going to change the world. Moments like this really remind me why we do this work in the first place. It's not just about the spacecraft in the missions, as amazing as all of that is. It's about the people that make them possible. And the way that exploring worlds beyond our own reshapes how we see ourselves and our connection to each other. When we look up and out, we're reminded of the scale, of the fragility, of the possibility.

We're reminded that we're small creatures living on a rock in a vast and complicated universe. And that's not necessarily something to fear. It's something that connects us. We choose to do this work because exploration makes us better. It demands cooperation. It rewards curiosity. It asks us to think long-term beyond election cycles, beyond quarterly returns, beyond our own lifetimes. It invites us to build a future that we may never personally see. Just one person, one step, and one transition at a time.

And sometimes when I'm trying to reflect on these giant moments like this in my own life, the best thing for me is to step outside and look up. So it's time for what's up with our chief scientist, Dr. Bruce Betz. Hey, Bruce. Hey, Sarah. Slightly hoarse today from all the celebration karaoke at the office yesterday. How are you doing? So good.

A little tired. A little tired. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things we get everyone together in the office. And it's just, it's so much fun. But also, who. But at the end of the day, I got to sit down with Bill and Jen and talk about this transition of power as Jen steps into this role. And it's cool.

You've been around for all of the CEOs of the Planetary Society. How are you feeling about where we are now and what the organization is like in this moment versus the entire arc of the history of the place, you know? Great. Such a better place than we have ever been in terms of stability, in terms of what we're able to accomplish. terms of the overall staff, the morale. Bill has been just wonderful as a CEO, and I'm super excited about Jen as CEO. She has all the history and competency to lead us forward in these coming years, and the past was great. The present is greater, and the future is the greatest. Wow, you actually genuinely sound happy. I'm kidding. Yeah, I know.

That's weird. I almost sounded optimistic. Yeah. Well, it was about the planetary society rather than whether any given mission will work. It's a great time with people. And I also am going to go against my usual plan and say, we have great people like you, Sarah. And I actually meant that. Now I will not be nice again for a while. Really, though, it was so wonderful, like saying all the generations of the people that have worked at the planetary society for so long,

some of which have been around working at the organization for almost as long as it's existed. And all of the new people, all of us together in one place, celebrating this moment, right after we've collectively helped save NASA science, looking forward, all the things we're going to do together. I think it was just a really special day. And I'm glad to know you, Bruce. I'm glad to know you too, Sarah. Well, we've got plenty to celebrate among our team. and I want to give other people a nice way to celebrate in the future. We've got a beautiful planetary alignment coming up, not this week, but over the next week or so,

we're going to start seeing a bunch of planets up in the sky, and we haven't done a what's up actually looking up at the sky in a while. So what's coming forward in February 20? Now I get to mix in some negativity as well as positivity. Yeah. Because I kind of have a pet peeve with planetary alignment. Oh, fair, valid. Whenever the planets are up, they're pretty much in a line anyway because they all orbit in the same orbital plane.

So you always are going to be following them across the sky. Even the moon is roughly in the same plane. That having been said now that I've whined about most of the... Oh, no, I had one more wine, which is you'll need probably a telescope to see a couple of the ones and you'll need a really clear view to those western horizon. And you'll have to do it shortly after sunset. But if you do all that, even if you don't, Jupiter is super easy to see. It's high up in the east.

It's the brightest thing up there. It's brighter than any of the other stars. It's not that far away from Sirius, which is the brightest star. And so check that out in the east. As you move west across the sky, you've got yellowish Saturn, dimmer but still looking like a bright star looking yellowish. And as you come down to the horizon around the 28th, so a few days before and after, Venus and Mercury are dancing, but they're dancing. very low to the horizon. So you're going to need to look soon after sunset, as soon as it kind of darkens and with a pretty clear view to the western horizon. But if you get that, Venus is

brighter than Jupiter, brighter than anything other natural object besides the moon. So you will be able to see it if you can get a shot at it. And Mercury is either above it or off to its right, depending on which day you look and is also bright, but that's the challenge. Now, if you really want to get crazed. Well, first of all, get mildly crazed. You can look for Uranus, which is hanging out kind of if you take Orion's belt and follow it off one direction. You get to Syria, the brightest around the sky.

You go the other direction off to its right as we would see it in the northern hemisphere. And you will get sort of to Aldebaran and the Pleiades. Well, Uranus is actually hanging out really near the Pleiades. You either need a really dark sky in great eyes or. binoculars or a telescope. And if you're really crazed, go for Neptune, which is the sixth of the planets that are technically visible. And it's not very far off from Saturn. If you're going to do that, I would get something that tells you exactly where to look, because Neptune's a wee bit of a challenge, because I don't know they knew this, but it's really far away.

Yeah. I always try to use either Stellarium or SkyMap or one of those free things. I can either put on my phone or my computer to help me figure out where things are in the sky. But of course, at any given moment when someone's like, what's that shiny thing in the sky? I'm like, let's look it up immediately. Because I think that's part of the power of these so-called planetary alignments, right? It's something that people can look up in the sky and go, huh, that's weird. But that gives us an opportunity to be like, well, actually, have you met my friend Ecliptic? You know, it's a powerful moment to actually like teach that kind of science. No, that is the positive thing is that It gets a lot of coverage.

Just my pet peeve that it gets oversold, and I worry about getting people more excited, like they're going to go out and see six giant planets right in front of them looking huge and bright, and then be disappointed and blow it off when they say things in the future. It's still super cool. That's true. I'll mention on the 26th, you've got the moon right next to Jupiter, which will be a very cool view. And below that, you've got Orion and you've got all the winter bright stars for the winter, northern winter, the hexagon, winter hexagon, which has the Sirius and Procyon and Capella

and all these good choice. A lot to look at over in the eastern sky, high up in the eastern sky so easy to see for at least the mid-latitude northern observers. So have fun with the night sky and don't take my negativity about things being oversawled as a negativity about night sky, which I do still very much love. You know, for me, it's the term blood moon. That's the one that gets me. Well, I've got a list. I've got a list, my friend.

Anyway, you will find, if you want more information, go to planetary.org slash night-hyphen sky, and then you can click through to that to the monthly thing. That'll have what's going on right away, and then you can click through to the monthly segment I do, which focuses, as we did here, on easy things to see in the night sky with just your eyes or some, but We also have our 2026 space calendar that came out earlier this year. So I'll link all these things on this episode of Planetary Radio. So you'll have all the resources you need to go out there and look it up at the sky and have a little bit of wonder. Do it.

Go go out there. Look up the night sky. I've heard people say that. It's a good idea. Right. It's cool stuff. Is it time for random space fact? So just a few weeks ago,

I talked about the quantity of lunar samples that came back from the moon, and I usually try to spread things out. But because we also have the Winter Olympics going on right now, I wanted to mention a combination of Winter Olympics stuff coming back from the moon fact, which is the mass of rocks and dirt brought back from the moon by astronauts in the Apollo program is approximately equal to 21 granite rocks or stones used in the sport of curling. 21 of those things they slide. That's about what we got back in mass from the moon from the Apollo program.

That's awesome. Oh, man, just don't put me on ice. I am bet like, don't send me to Insolidus with some ice skates. It will not work out. Oh, let's go to a group ice skate. That'll be fun. Oh, man. Maybe at the next co-working week when all of us can get together.

And then instead of listening to be go horse saying karaoke, you can watch me fall on my face. or practice my angular momentum. That sounds fun. Let's do that. Let's do that. All right, everybody. Go out there to look on the night sky and picture. Oh, go ahead.

Picture Sarah falling on her face but not getting hurt. Thank you. Good night. We've reached the end of the Sucs episode of Planetary Radio, but we'll be back next week with more space science and exploration. If you love the show, you can get planetary radio t-shirts at planetary.org slash shop, along with lots of other cool spacey merchandise. Help others discover the passion, beauty, and joy of space science and exploration

by leaving a review and a rating on platforms like Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Your feedback not only brightens our day, but helps other curious minds find their place in space through Planetary Radio. You can also send us your space thoughts, questions, and poetry at our email, planetary radio at planetary.org. or if you're a Planetary Society member, leave a comment in the Planetary Radio space in our member community app. Planetary Radio is produced by the Planetary Society in Pasadena, California, an organization that I am eternally grateful to be a part of.

It's made possible by our members all over this beautiful and precious planet. You can join us as we continue to celebrate the joy and the power of space science at planetary.org join. Mark Hilverta and Ray Paletta are our associate producers. Casey Dreyer is the host of our monthly space policy edition, and Matt Kaplan hosts our monthly book club edition. Andrew Lucas is our audio editor. Josh Doyle composed our theme, which is arranged and performed by Peter Schlosser. My name is Sarah Al-Ahmed, the host and producer of Planetary Radio. And until next week, ad Astra.