Plumbing the Death Star - How Did Inceptioning Start?

Episode Date: September 30, 2018

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Sans pants radio, I got phlegm in my throat and love in my heart. Hey everyone and welcome to this week's episode of Plumbing the Death Star, where we ask the important questions like, how did Inceptioning start? Do you reckon they call it inceptioning? No. 100%. Also, I just want to give our audience just a bit of backstory. I'm going to break the fourth wall here for a second. No, never know how the kitchen is made. Yes.

You have a carpenter and I don't want to know. I watched Ferris Bueller's Day Off and the one takeaway message from that was like I liked when he talked to me directly no douche you're gonna ruin the majestic of it all hey listeners I'm sorry to inform you Zammett but it's happening anyway

we've made this un-exciting story even more less exciting so I just want everyone to know that when we started Plumbing the Death Star we wrote down a bunch of topics I'm like oh we'll do these eventually this was written down before we'd recorded Exciting. Anyway, so I just want everyone to know that when we started Plumbing the Death Star, we wrote down a bunch of topics. I'm like, oh, we'll do these eventually. This was written down before we'd recorded the first season, and we just never fucking did it. So this is one from the archives, guys.

That's true. It's got a proud history. Inceptioning, how did it start? Well, it's the kind of thing that you can't imagine anyone sitting down. Until the movie Inception came out, it wasn't something I considered. Like, I was never going to invent Inception. Well, what is the technology? Well, it's a machine that you plug into your veins, maybe, and then you go to sleep. And then when that happens, we go in the top dream.

That's how I would explain it to the rich businessman. What do you intend to do? Go in the top drain with a vein machine? That's the like I just feel That is the worst explanation of Inceptioning I might have heard Hey you know how people dream What if you could invade those dreams and steal

Or change a thing Make them think a thing because we're inside their brains So they think they thought the thing no no also you know like when you dream when you wake up is the fucking concept the technology is just going into someone's mind you go in this sleeping mind in their yeah in their subconscious yeah in the yeah and then you inception that no that would be just like hey that's a bonus thing we can do a requiem for a dream if you will you hang around inside the brain and you push it over and you see when you come out of the brain what happened to the guy no you just you're a matt i'm so you have the technology hang on zamala requiem for a dream

that's an interesting sentence i haven't seen the film but what does that like how is the concept of the film a requiem of a dream what's a requiem it's like a i don't know a reprise isn't it i'm gonna quickly google what requiem means it's a i'm pretty sure i mean it's not the film we're discussing dusha but okay i said requiem for a dream and now i want to know it's a mass for repose of the souls of the dead well that makes even less sense yeah fuck that you're you're uh i guess your your dreams are dying oh that makes sense in the context of you guys both just taking stupid pills this morning like i just feel like i've come in we've sat down and you're just like i'm gonna be a dumb fuck and i'm like i got up i got up, I woke up early,

I poured myself a milk in a bowl and then I went to the, we had two cereals. One was dumb fuckos and the other was Cheerios. And they look real similar. And as I poured it in, instead of making a ksh, it made a tuh. And then you seem to be douches. Oh, what are you having?

Ah, Cheerios, I reckon. You fucking idiot. I don't live here. I woke up this morning, got out my toast and put on some toast. And I was in the cupboard. There was two fucking jams. There was strawberry jam. And this jam will make you a dumb fuck.

And I was like, not strawberry today. I'm sick of strawberry jam. And I got a big spoonful and just slopped it down on my toast. As you spread it across. A dump. I was just saying, you're like, this is going to be good. And I was like,

can't wait to talk about Inception. That was our morning. That was every morning. What was your morning? I made eggs. There you go. Dumb eggs? Eggs would make you a fucking idiot?

I don't get it. This concept of clever breakfast is frightening and makes no sense. I don't understand clever breakfast. Tell me more about top dreams. We got all the different levels of dream. Top to bottom. Top, then middle, middle, middle, bottom.

I just... Alright, so... Inception is just the concept of going in someone's mind and being like, what if we plan an idea? The whole thing was like, we have this idea... Well, it's the inception of an idea so yeah we can have this technology that goes and just into someone's brain but what if we while we're in someone else's brain thought of the concept of going into that person's brain and they keep going well presumably it began in a laboratory yes and someone was like hey we've invented this technology that lets you go into a brain. God, I hope a heist team doesn't get a control of it.

Again, it's like no one invents a bank thinking, gee whiz, I hope someone makes a fucking heist and steals from me. No. But that's a totally different thing. Yeah, we're not inventing the bank. That's like somebody inventing a safe drill and being like, God, I hope a heist team doesn't get this safe drill. It's like the inventor of a gun being like, i hope no one shoots the good guys with this yeah they invent the brain technology for alzheimer's or yeah like why go to someone's dream no one is like fuck i'm having a dream that i had a dream so i'm gonna wake up in the morning and change my entire life because you're not going

to a dream you're going into someone's subconscious. Well, the thing is, we're kind of already... So it's mind control. It's basically, you go, okay, several reasons why you'd invent this machine. It's like, one would be the, I guess the altruistic way, which is someone has any kind of mental illness or they're like Alzheimer's or something like that, or a disease or an

illness that affects the mind, or someone's in a coma, and they want to go in and communicate with them, and they want to go in and communicate with them or they want to go in and try and fix the problem hey buddy you're in a coma wake up maybe wake up and just slap him a few times it wouldn't really help with alzheimer's or anything because it's not like you're going in there and you're messing around with the brain you're just going around in there and all right so maybe not alzheimer's then maybe it's but also not a coma you can't just yell at a coma patient until they wake up we don't know i've yelled at heaps of

unconscious people get out of the hospital sir have you yelled from the inside a coma maybe but i don't think like it couldn't really work for mental illness because you're just like going in a dream yeah if you if someone in your dream was like wake up i guess mate because again think about like sort of mental illnesses or even just like, even though mental illnesses, there's someone being, I want to be a better version of me. Yeah. And so they kind of go into the subconscious as it were and try to have that, you know. But don't you need to not know it's happening for you to think it's your idea, otherwise

it doesn't work. Isn't that like the premise of the film? Yes. Like if they went in your head and were like, hey, Jackson, work out more. I've got to be like no you told me to so i won't again that's my favorite play you wouldn't have known that or the people who invented this wouldn't have known that until they had tried yeah so maybe they're like look we want to go and inception them because we need to do that because we have

all these studies that prove that just going in there and being like, Oi, sell your dad's company! Doesn't work. It's weird, though, because King Inception, man. What's his name? Lord of Inception. Lord Cobb. Cobb. Are we talking Cobb?

We talking Leonardo? Yeah. He is like, here's a wild, crazy idea that we've only tried once and it didn't really work. So, like, it's not like- Wait, Ken Watabi? Who are you talking about? The big... Cobb, yes, Cobb.

Leonardo DiCaprio. Leonardo DiCaprio. He says to rich businessmen, look, we can do this, but it's only ever half worked. And last time we did this, my wife died, maybe. Yeah, so, like, I don't... She got lost in a dream and then killed herself. Sure did.

Dumb. Wait for the train. This is the way we'll do it. I'm not just going to imagine myself dead because I'm in a dream and then killed herself. Yeah, it did. Dumb. Wait for the train. This is the way we'll do it. I'm not just going to imagine myself dead because I'm in a dream. I'm going to imagine an incredibly painful way to die. Anyway, so I reckon it just came about because that's the kind of thing scientists do. I was looking the other day. I was watching this video and it was this scientist, this lady.

She'd come up with a way of seeing what a cat sees. Okay. The same as us, but from lower. It was nuts. No, it's blurry and weird and gross. Everything's kind of fuzzy, but that's not for anything. We're not achieving anything by doing that. Presumably someone's like, well, let's take some technology.

We get like a base level technology and, oh, hey, look, we can actually go into dreams with this. Cats see in black and white. They see in colour, but it's always flickering. That's odd. It is. That's like strobes all the time. Sick.

Club life. No wonder cats and the tourists are having seizures. Yeah, they're always strobing out. Yeah. So, yeah, it would be invented for the pursuit of knowledge to be like, hey, we've got this thing that we can see inside someone's dream. Yeah, like, why not? So they would have gone to do that. Let's have a gander.

And they would have been like, well, how can we utilize this? And there would have been several different iterations of like, well, let's try and communicate with coma patients. Let's try and maybe see if we can help any kind of mental disorder. It's probably good for dogs. Sure. That's not where my next point was. But okay, let's just go down this path.

All right, take my hand, Jack. Let's go. Come with me. Join me, my brothers in podcasting as we go down this particular train. Dog dreams. Dogs. So dog isn't as clever as a person. That's a fact.

We know this. Yep. And the reason you can't inception a person good is because they're too aware. Yeah. Dog ain't aware. Okay. Imagine we go in a dog's brain and we're like, stop shitting on the carpet.

Dog's dumb enough. Dog's going to be like, I thought that. Then you come out and dog's like, I had this great thought while I was streaming to not shit on a carpet. Plus, dog dreams, not that complex. Dog's eating a deer or whatever in a field. You're like, tap it on the shoulder.

Hey, idiot, don't shit. No, no, don't say don't shit. Jackson, you came out of my dog and it's getting very sick i think it's shouting months oh my god put me back in it's very complicated shit shit before you die then like popping the cork off a champagne bottle. Just a geyser. I guess Jackson fixed it. Good on him. All right, well, I guess that's one thing. What about, say, I don't know, chimps or apes?

Yeah, well, apes are too complex. They've got a complicated dream. How do you know that? Well, they're more complicated than a dog on the scale of complicated brains. Like, I wouldn't do it to a crow either. What about a dolphin? Yeah, nah. But a fish? Sure. See, I would give it

a burl for most things. Well, I mean, I'd give it a burl, I just don't think it'd work, you know. I reckon it'd be a military process as well. Like, a military application. To achieve what? Because you go in there to be like, the whole thing is, like, people don't want to, I think it's, when they're shooting like, combatants or enemy combatants, they actually don't want to shoot.

Yeah, yeah. So they try and usually miss or whatever because of that. So he's going in there like, oi, shoot him. Shoot him. Hey, murder, it's good. But it seems like, because we know that you actually can't do shit while you're in there, really, because other than when you Inception. Well, yes and no.

Because again, you need to be willing to yeah the reason why uh cillian cillian murphy is that his name he looks like a little christian bale he does um while cillian murphy is there because he doesn't they're trying to get him to sell his dad's company right yeah but if you go in there and be like i want to change i want you to then plug me in and do stuff to my brain so that I'm willing. Because when I go in there, it's like the brain rebels and they try and do little combatant squads. Brain molestation. Get out of my brain!

Fuck you! Bang, bang, pow, pow! If you're like, nah, I want this to happen. So it's almost like guided hypnosis or guided meditation. Do we know that that works? If you want someone in there, you're good? Well, I have about as much proof of this as you do that it doesn't work because i seem to remember even when cobs happy going on his dream journey with his wife that isn't the reason they have to go deeper so they can get away from them

from the scary mind devils yeah that's because cobs all kind of all messed up okay so i guess if you're prepared for it he went too deep in a dream which is apparently also something you can do there's a bottom like i said there's a too deep in a dream, which is apparently also something you can do. There's a bottom. Like I said, there's a top dream and a bottom dream. There is a bottom dream. Don't go to the bottom dream. Don't go to your id?

No, it's not a bottom dream. It's like you go beyond dreams. You go too deep. Again, it's more like layers of subconsciousness. Why does it look the same? It doesn't. No, but it does. Because they go down there and there's the town Cobb built, but they're in little Christian Bale's brain.

Right? No. It shouldn't look like Cobb's sub- There's an architect. Yeah. Never mind. That's one of the things. No, but the architect-

Why would the architect make Cobb's house? You know what I mean? Cobb ends up in his dream bottom. Because everyone that's going in there is influencing the subconsciousness. Is that what they say? I would argue yes I don't think that's the case Because everyone that's going in there is playing a part in it all But it's only Cobb that goes down to the bottom

Yeah Yeah, so But it's also Cecilion Murphy Yeah Cecilion Murphy I think it's more realistic that the inceptioning technology exists but they're like it just doesn't have any practical application because we can't

get it to work and then the criminal underground finds it because it's not like a known thing but isn't it a known thing? no when Cobb's like I can do this and Dingus businessman he's like I don't believe you and then it's happening and he's like I guess't believe you and then it's happening and he's like

i guess i believe you whereas if it was a known military technology surely everyone would be like oh it's just inception is that is the technology known and the procedure is not no the technology isn't known because when cob because the guy doesn't believe they can do it rich businessman and then he's like hey we were doing it all the whole time does he believe like does he not believe that they just can't pull it off no because he's shocked when he finds out he was asleep so like he's like oh my god we were in my dream just then and he's like yeah the thing we can do i i would argue that it would probably be a military experiment and that you either either using it for either training like better training their own troops yeah to be like you know don't be fearful don't do this don't do that or

like be better and all that kind of stuff because again you may be more willing you're more susceptible maybe another one could be uh using it for interrogation yeah so going into someone's subconsciousness and um whereas it seemed that hob and no cob and his team were kind of being more like espionage and kind of subtle they could have been there as brute force and being like tell us what we want to know i wonder if it's the kind of thing where if you go in with like a militia yeah you can just kill those things that try to stop you but isn't it like the whole dream tries to stop you yeah it's like's like the world squishes around you. The world starts falling apart and stuff like that.

Because if you die in a dream, you die in real life? No. No, you just wake up. Oh, that's right. But wait, isn't someone dying? Maybe. They're shot and they get shot in a too deep dream. That's true.

And they have to get them out to the top layer. Oh, wait, no. Have they gone too deep? Oh, if you go too deep, you can't wake up without a big kick. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. In general, how you get out is with a big kick. Yeah, but you have to- That sensation of falling back.

The kick has to be bigger with every layer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And because of Bloke dying, the kick has to- Gotta be big. Gotta be big kick. That's why- But if the kick- Kick too small

Man no wake up Yeah Kick big Man wake Everyone wake up Cause isn't that why Guy driving the car Crashes the car

Yep Yeah He's gotta wake everyone up Full off bridge Big kick They need to time it Biggest kick is They need to time it

So all kicks are the same Yeah kick at same time Kick at same time Kick at same time Big wake ups Yeah I think that's how it goes. If one man kicks, no one wakes up.

If the whole world kicks, everyone's awake. One big kick for man, one bigger kick for mankind. Oh, wait, isn't it like in real- One bigger kick for mankind is a big kick to wake up a man, is what they're saying. Isn't it in the real world, Cecil and Murphy get shot, Isn't it in the real world Cecil and Murphy get shot But because time's slow

They got time They wake up They have to deal with it before Cecil and Murphy dies Because they're in the car on the bridge And there's people shooting them Are they already in a dream? They're already in a dream when that happens

Are you sure? Yes They're on a plane What's the big dream? Oh, plane, that's right That's not the big dream. Big dream's the car. Top dream, car.

Middle dream, snow, hotel. Bottom dream, compound. Compound. Yes. No, that's snow. Bottom dream, train. No. Yes.

Where's the train? Under dream. The train. Like a desert? Not a desert. Oh, my God. Like a beach. Not a desert. Oh my God. Like a beach. Talk Inception to me.

Okay. I've seen it very recently, I promise. Alive dream. Yes. Not dream. Not dream. Plane. We're into a plane.

Top dream, car on bridge. Yes. Middle dream one is hotel. Middle dream two is snow. Bottom dream or lower dream is city cob made with wife. Yes. Where train is. Thank God we sorted that out.

Yeah. Also, man lost. Ken Watabi's also there, isn't he? Yes, a bit. Somehow. And he's real old? Yes, but not really. No, just in dream.

In real is young. In real is young, in dreamy old. Yes. Bottom dream too old, time move too far. Yeah, time move different in depending on layer of dream. Common sense. Yeah. So, like, big kick actually slow kick.

One fast kick. Yes. How did it start though so it would have been an experiment and there would have been like i reckon it would have been a three-pronged approach or at least been like there's something that exists and then they're going to be three different uses one would have been as i've said before the altruistic kind of way which is like let's try and help people who need help so we're going to have like people with depression or people with like severe mental um illnesses ailments that kind of stuff yeah or someone in a coma that's like hey even though we can't get you to wake up we can at least communicate with you yeah because you know that would be i guess nice i guess it's nice and

they can be like oh your son's in a coma you can go in his dream just be like he's not fucking in there or whatever well exactly like then you have the military component, which would be either trying to train people, your own kind of troops to be like, all right, we're going to, you know, inception or we're going to like, you know, have an architecture design, different concepts and scenarios that, you know, you may have in real life so that we're going to run these through in your mind so that you're prepared. There's a whole tier of visualising a goal. And so it's like if you visualise something, you are going to be better at it. There's a lot of those different things. And I guess the third prong would then be going into dog's dreams, see Jim not to shit on the carpet.

Sorry, fourth. It's more prongs. So the third one would be going into dog's dreams. Don't shit on the carpet. Don't shit. Oh, wait. On the carpet. We fucked it. Not on the carpet oh wait on the carpet on the car we fucked it not on the carpet shit outside then there would have been the the gamut of the animal

kingdom to be like what if we were in a whale's dream i reckon and then we do that for a bit yeah and then the fifth one i would argue would be somehow pornography yeah because that is what technology seems to want to do well i guess in a dream you can imagine anything exactly it seems like it'd only be for the filthy rich that i could afford an inception machine oh i want to know what the like cheap knockoff is yeah like for the not for the mass-produced sort of middle class somewhat poor well maybe you can just go in the top stream it's just like that wouldn't even be that it would be like because everything has to have like an architect right whatever it's could design that it would come with its own like pre-built architect so everything looks like fucking

remember the 90s cartoon series reboot yeah yeah that uh that's a disappointment like like the lawnmower man but the original so everything's like real shitty like this is my subconscious yeah fuck that polygon thing. All right. Can you go- you do go into your own subconscious, yeah? Yeah. You're there yourself. Yeah. Okay.

I reckon, with the, like, the self-improvement aspect of it, probably going- you would just be you. Yep. You would just go into yourself alone. I'd just be so scared of fucking something up what if i inceptioned myself accidentally well that's it's kind of what you want isn't it but what if i inception myself with something wrong my brain's always firing off with like a million different thoughts yeah what if i accidentally incept the wrong one yeah yeah what if i wake

up being like i gotta become a fisherman that's that's my life from now on is selling fish and then you're like i guess that's what i'm doing this is just what i want yeah so then at what point does this technology go from your five-pronged approach to something owned by the criminal underworld what about like a marketing approach sorry to kind of um yeah it has a tangent but like a marketing thing that's just to be like let's inception people to drink coke but the problem is you'd have to drink coke all right i'll be back the problem is you got to do it person by person that's the issue just imagine it's a marketing exec being like okay hi coke hey i know you have an idea so what we're going to do here it's going to cost a lot of money but we can go

like systematically go through a lot of people people by people tell them we're going to help them out with their like whatever problems they have, but really drink Coke. I mean, I guess it's the kind of thing if- Oh, how about this? Yeah. I mean, look, it's not the nicest thing. Hey, Coke, I know you want to do this like,

you know, mental health awareness. Yeah. So we're going to go and get people and be like, hey, let's try and help you have a free inception in trial. And then we try and like help them out as it were to be like, hey, maybe, you know, do this, this and this and drink Coke. Well, what if it's the And then we try and, like, help them out, as it were, to be like, hey, maybe, you know, do this, this, and this, and drink Coke.

Well, what if it's the kind of thing where it's like, so say in your world we're inceptioning for medical reasons anyway. I've got a way to improve the system, but I'll just wait for you to say your thing. Well, what if it's the kind of thing where we're like, Coke just gets, like, an advertising deal. So you're going in to get out of your coma, but also the company has paid, Coke has paid them so that when you come out of the coma,

you're also like, I would love some Coke. What about a Coke gun? What if this inceptioning was done with a gun? Oh, like a taser. Yes. Drink Coke. You don't have to yell. You just get them.

Like the inceptioning machine is just Coke. Yeah. Like sponsored by Coke. It's all just like Coke basically is selling these inception machines. I really like the idea of like living in a world where there's like, I'm imagining a van, the doors open up, people come out and shoot you with the guns. The only, you wake up wanting Coke.

It's not a crime. It's like nothing you can do against it. There's no crime in subliminal advertising. Trust me, I should know. Subscribe to Sandspans Radio. And drink Coke. I hope the listeners want to drink Coke. I want to drink a little bit of Coke.

Yeah, Coke would be good. Coke would be great. Make sure you head to Sandspansradio.com forward slash live to book tickets to upcoming shows. If you can somehow make the fans associate Coke and plopping the desk. Every time you drink a Coke, you're like, oh, child do a show.

Yeah, if you're enjoying Coke, wait till you hear our bonus content. If you head to sanspenceplus.com for as little as $5 a month, you can get so much extra shit to enjoy with your Coke. Exactly. This is the problem, right? Once you get like a Joe Q Scum gets the hold

of Inception, like, let's see what we can do. Yeah. And they just keep trying and trying and trying to have any harebrained scheme to be like, what a mess. I'm just wondering at what point it goes from being like a military and medical technology to something kind of only used by the fucking heists the criminal underworld

yeah because clearly in that movie nobody really knows what inceptioning is oh no wait don't they because don't they say that sicilian murph yeah boy has like he's been trained yeah because they say he's being trained against corporate espionage which is why he has all those like um gun boys gun boys to attack and everything so and the compound has snipers well then how come fucking old mate businessman has no idea what inceptioning is i surely when they're like well inception the guy he's like oh yeah i again i think he probably maybe knows that the uh technology exists maybe he doesn't know what inceptioning is maybe he doesn't know what the um the process is so at the very top of the episode we asked would they call it inceptioning maybe maybe he doesn't know what the um the process is so at the very top of

the episode we asked would they call it inceptioning maybe not maybe they're like we're gonna inception he's like hmm what and then explain him he's like oh yeah yeah that that oh you're gonna do a dream steal yeah yeah no it's the opposite of a dream a dream put yeah i know dream putting yeah yeah you weird colloquialisms that's so. Why don't we call it inceptioning? Because we're inceptioning an idea in them. Oh, my God. We're helping. It makes so much more sense than dream pudding.

But we're going in there, dream, and putting things in. We are putting in a... Surely dream pudding is the superior word. We're just trying to help them inception an idea. Maybe it's stupid in that movie, in that universe, that when Cillian Murphy has been trained to protect the thing, he's like a safe in a compound. I would be like the bottom of the ocean. Yeah, but then you're drowning.

Why am I there? Who invited Jackson? That's what- I just won't go in the sea. Whatever. So where are you? On a boat. What? I'm putting mine in a nuke.

So they need to go to you. Yes. And you're saying put you at the bottom of the ocean. So then why are you there? Because that's what you need. No, because Cillian Murphy puts the little piece of paper at the bottom in the safe in the compound. Okay.

Yeah, and they go in the compound and they crack open the safe and they're like, oh, and now we can put this in the safe in the compound. Okay. Yeah, and they go in the compound, they crack open the safe, and they're like, oh, and now we can put this in the safe. Why have it somewhere? Why not put it in space? Then the Inception team are going to have to build a fucking robot rocket. Not a robot. You could build a robot with rockets. I guess.

I don't know where robot came out. Well, I guess it comes down to you know your own end poorly frankly either that or it's the um that's i'm remembering this movie now yeah yeah um or it could be something like you know he has to himself build it so he would have to like get be able to get there if that makes sense so if he was to like you know build like an underground or underwater structure, he would have to have built that in his own mind. Yeah.

So, his mind palace, as it were, there'd have to be an access to his mind palace. So, otherwise, he would not be able to- Otherwise, to make it. Well, I just imagine a diving suit, but only one, and I'll have it. All right. Then, I mean, that makes sense. There you go. That's just-

But then- Yeah. Someone get that diving suit or maybe they dream themselves up or think up a submarine and then it's easier to get to because there's no guards there because they're all drowned. Seems like floating in the ocean, being like,

thought I trained some people to stop that. Hmm. It just seems weird to put it in a very notable place. Well, it wasn't. What do you mean by notable? As in, like, as, so maybe putting it underwater is not a good idea. Yeah. But why not be like, here is a garden of a billion rocks. See, that's better.

In one of these rocks is it. I know which one it is. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't stop against Inception, because in Inception, they make you think that you want to get it. Yeah. But it would stop against mind thieves. Put all of it in bombs.

Well, there's an idea as well put your little piece of paper yeah in a thing an egg thing but instead of eggs it's grenades yeah but then you put that in a lot of other yeah like a suit it's a supermarket where you're going to go buy eggs but all the eggs are grenades but but the note is in one of them but even if you pick the right one boom the. The supermarket is only eggs? Yes. I would become suspicious. And is a dream. Why do you have

this egg market in your mind? I don't know. The problem there then is if everything is blowing up, then your subconscious is blowing up

and then I'm assuming you die. Is your subconscious not? No. But I'm assuming, no, because I don't... Yeah, but if your subconscious is shooting at a van,

how is that any better than mine exploding? If you kill one of your subconscious fighting boys... Yeah. You're fine. You're fine. I think it's just like a mental projection. It's not a real place. Yeah, but, like, if you blow it up, you're obliterating it.

No, but I don't think that's how it works, because if you go in to steal something, which is what Cecilie and Murphy's trained against... If you go into someone's dream and take a shit on the floor, their brain isn't now shit. I know that. I'm saying it's just like then there's no if you're if you have bombs and everything like that then like surely it's just going to not be there no because if somebody goes into the brain and steals a corporate idea they don't they just know it now they don't steal it the person who they sell it from doesn't now not know it but they're not stealing them he's

putting something no but that that because when cob goes to old businessman guys like hey we're gonna do this and he's like oh yeah he's trained against having stuff stolen from him they're like we're not gonna steal something we're gonna give something yeah yeah yeah so stealing is just a thing that happens in that world so why not then just make your safe just the middle of a nuclear explosion that is constantly going on saying it's weird to be like. That's what we're saying. He got trained badly. He did get trained badly. The people who trained him were like, all you gotta do is compound some snipers. You're good. Don't even worry about it. Or is it just

that you sometimes need to go there yourself in your own mind palace? Yeah, but it's you, so surely the guys won't fight you. No, but if it's like a constantly exploding bomb, then you can't go there yourself. Well, you probably can, because it's your dream. Just make it so that it only hurts you. There's no rules. Yeah,'s your dream just make it so that it only hurts you there's no rules yeah it's true make fucking make it so that it was trained wrong there he was just trained by idiots who were like the best way

well that's because i mean like you know if the movie was like we're at the third level the second middle level of his oh it's just a big nuke explosion uh we can't it's just it's not as exciting a film i'm wondering what i don't know trying to like somehow crack that puzzle i'm excited yeah look not enough movies have a constantly exploding nuke in them um i wonder how they figured out the team you need because what do you need you need an architect and alan page and alan page she is the architect no no she's the tom hardy's the architect. No. No, she's the- Tom Hardy's the architect. What's Ellen Page? She's the creator.

It's like an architect and someone to fuck with the architecture. Yeah. Oh, that's right. Yeah, no. Tom Hardy makes the world. Ellen Page goofs the world. DiCaprio is the thief. Yeah.

Gordon Levitt, Arthur. What's he do? He's like the- Manages and researches the mission. Well, then you don't need him. Why is he in the dream? Yeah. Because he's only there for the first layer or the second layer.

Second layer, yeah. No, second layer. So he's the one that kind of works it all out, how to do everything. He's the one that's like, he's the planning. Stay out of the dream. Yeah. He's the one who puts all the drugs in. Yeah, that's true.

He's the one who puts the drugs in there, and he's going to be there to pull the people out of the second level. I guess that makes sense. All right. Alan Page. So that's true. He's the one who puts the drugs in there and he's going to be there to pull the people out of the second level. I guess that makes sense. All right, Alan Page. So she's also an architect. Yeah, okay. You got two. Oh!

Because she wants to construct the various dreamscapes. No, isn't it they're two architects because if one of them knows the layout, then they... Because Cobb isn't allowed to know the layout because he keeps putting his dead wife in things. Yeah, that's right.

DiCaprio was originally that dude, but then he just, his dead wife just keeps popping up. Then you got Tom Hardy. Apparently he's the fence. Forgery. That's right. That's what he does. Oh, yeah.

He looks like people. Yeah. Different people. Yeah. He's like the actor. Ken Watabi. He's the basically financing. Paul Hardy.

Paul Hardy isn't his actor. Isn't an actor. Tom Hardy is an actor. Paul Hardy. Paul Hardy isn't his actor. Isn't an actor. Tom Hardy is. So Ken Watabi is the- What about fella driving a van? I'm getting there. What's he doing? Why do you need to cut a driver's fee?

Explain to me Inception. He's a pharmacologist. So he makes the right drug to put you on. Why do we- He's a chemist, I guess. We don't put him in the dream though, do we? Yeah, he's in the second though do we yeah he's in the second level

no he's in the first layer he's in the first layer he's the one driving the van he's the one doing the big van kick

oh that's right because you've got to put everyone to sleep that's because every layer you go down you've got to

go to sleep again so yeah which means you're always losing someone in a layer to wake you up yeah

so maybe the reason the heist seems so big is they're like we're just just going to go very deep. Yeah. That sucks. It's like a lair of a heist where everyone dies every step. Yeah, exactly.

Where someone dies every step. Not everyone dies every step. That's a failure. I'm loving it. Any of a heist. Like, imagine Ocean's Eleven, but George Clooney's ex-wife keeps turning up. She does.

It's Julia Roberts. Yeah, but she's not dead. She's not's ex-wife keeps doing it. She does. It's Julia Roberts. Yeah, but she's not dead. She's not, like, in the middle of the heist when that guy's trying to, like, climb out of the safe or whatever. It's just her there. Yeah. So, I want to know how they figured that out. I want to know who they lost to people that didn't have a fucking... What's that?

Your anchor? What do they call it? Just the spinning top or the weighted dice. Oh, yeah. Or whatever it is. Token? Totem. Totem.

Totem. So, again, this is probably one of those things where there's just a long history of research where it's just like we lost a lot of grad students. Yeah, like people, if you don't have a totem, are you just trapped in the dream? No, you just forget you're in a dream because apparently once you go to sleep, you're a dumb fuck. Surely.

So imagine we go in, the three of us, we're inceptioning Adam, say. Yep. Okay. Or Melody. Let's stop Melody shitting on the carpet. All right. Our dog. Yep.

Cool. Yeah. Oi. Stop. Stop it. Stop it. No shits. On the carpet.

Keep shitting, but not inside. I didn't bring a totem. I'm like, no, this is real. I'm fairly sure I live in this field. Jackson, that dog is talking. Yeah, that seems reasonable. But then like... You know what?

Bye. You just leave and pull me out. And I'm like, okay. I guess what would happen is that... Because if you die, you get pulled out as well. Is that why? Isn't that why Cobb's wife kept killing herself? Because she's like, you can't die in a dream, dickhead.

Yeah, that's true. She's like, it's not real. She kept killing herself. She killed herself once. Yeah, but in the real world. To prove that she was dead. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, well, no, I think, yeah, you die, you go up to the previous layer.

Yeah. I think. Anyway, because otherwise, why would she get hit by the train? I'm not sure. But what I mean, I guess the way people would die without a totem, and the way you'd realise you need a totem, is that, say, none of us had a totem. We were all like,

I'm pretty sure this field with Melody is real life. Then we just rot away and starve to death in reality. No, because time works differently. So what would happen is we would rot away and starve to death or live our life in Melody's field dream. Yeah. And then when we get to a ripe old age and die, then we wake up like, oh, man, that felt like literally forever.

Well, that's not too bad, then. I don't know why people are complaining. That's pretty good. It's just like, hey, you want another- I mean, it's not fun because we're in a field full of carcasses, but, like, that's fine. It's not a field full of- What do you think my dog is dreaming of?

Carcasses? Eating them? Eating carcasses? You're telling, what do you think my dog is dreaming of? Carcasses. Eating them. Eating carcasses. You're telling me that's not what your dog's dreaming of? That's not what every fucking dog's dreaming of? Carcasses and hands that come down from the sky for pats. Long disembodied hands that come from the sky like a powerful rain down to pat your dog or us, because we're there as well amongst the carcasses.

Getting patted and chewing on carcasses. Well, we don't have to eat the carcasses, but we probably should. Yeah. Well, we'd probably starve to death and then I guess we'd eat the carcasses because we're starving. Yeah. So, we live 80 odd years. Yeah. As a getting gently patted and eating carcasses.

Yeah. And then we wake up and we're like, that was crazy. That was crazy. Oh, well. I think your mind might be broken and maybe then someone needs to go carcasses. Yeah, and then we wake up and we're like, that was crazy. I think your mind might be broken. And maybe then someone needs to go incept new to then, like, fix your brain. So, the way a totem works, just to refresh myself, is that it's an object that you physically have on your person. That, yeah, that only you know the-

Oh, no, no, it isn't. It's just something only you know the exact dimensions and physics of. Yeah. Because I'm fairly sure Joseph Gordon-Levitt's is a carpet. That's not a joke. I think it is. A piece of carpet? No, a whole carpet.

He doesn't bring it with him. But I remember, because you fucking, who's eating dumb fuck pills now? At the start of the movie, Joseph Gordon-Levitt falls on his face and his hands fall on a carpet. And he's like, oh, and he feels it a bit. And he's like, that wasn't right. My carpet feels different. Yeah. And then he wakes up and he's like, I was in a dream.

Yeah. Yeah. So, his is a carpet. Cobb's is dice. No, a top. A top. Or a ring, depending on which theory you want to go with. Yeah.

And I forget everyone else's. So, it doesn't even have to be something small. No, it can just be, like, a feeling or something like that. Because, like, if you know exactly what, like, a pen feels like. Yeah. And the dream is like, it's a little bit wobbly. I'm in a dream. I got this.

Yep. Nah, I'm in a dream. Mine would be an ox that I just get the feeling of. Have you ever felt an ox? I would go to a zoo or a farm. Yeah, look, you're getting stuck. And I would find the ox. I'd give it a touch.

I'd be like, yeah, I got a fucking feeling for this. Yeah. And then in a dream, occasionally, an ox would pop and you'd be like, you just checking, Jackson? Yeah. Yeah. Mine would be the taste of Coke Zero. Drink Coke. This is wrong. We're sleeping we are definitely sleeping

this is missing that very very distinct but subtle flavour of metal at the end of a mouthful of this coke zero this coke zero tastes too good it's missing the bit that's not nice this man has clearly never consumed that much Coke Zero. He has not nailed the subtleties.

This is a dream. We are in a man's brain. This dog doesn't know what Coke Zero tastes like. We need to get out. I need to drink Coke. And I need to visit sanspenceplus.com and review my champ membership. Absolutely. It might be like a DVD copy

of Catch Me If You Can. Yeah? Would you have to watch it in its entirety? ship absolutely yeah it might be like a dvd copy of catch me if you can yeah yeah would you would you have to watch it in its entirety or would you just know what it feels like initially i was going to go like the feeling of it but now watching it in its entirety seems all right would you have enough attention to detail to notice any subtle things that were wrong no no not at all so you're just watching Catch Me If You Can. What's great about that, though, is that... Hey, Colin, shut up. Sit down and watch this. This is a great performance by someone that looks just like you.

I like that in Douche's mind, if the dog hasn't had Coke Zero, the Coke Zero will taste wrong. If the dog hasn't seen Catch Me If You Can, you're going to get a very weird version of Catch Me If You Can. Everyone with dog faces. I don't know if this is right or not, but I'm going to keep watching to see how it turns out. I don't think your dog has ever seen an ox.

Does that mean I'll just always know? No, because if you summon an ox and then something that is clearly not an ox will appear and you're like, maybe that is an ox. We nap in boys. Hey, Jackson. Yeah? When do you ever see an ox in real life?

At the zoo sometimes. So you'd have to go to the zoo in a dream to check. Yeah. If an ox just popped up in the street. Like, if we went outside and there was an ox in the street, would you then look at us and be like, this is a dream? No. He just said, how exciting.

He wouldn't know. You don't know this head dream. No one giving big kick to Jack. Jack feet firmly on ground. Jack no moving. Jack patting an ox. Holy shit, guys. An ox. Is that not your totem, Jackson? What?

What's a totem? Let me just quickly sit down and watch this two and a half hour film. I gotta check. Something's not right. Okay. This is time sensitive Something's not right. Okay. Hey, this is time sensitive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hang on, hang on, hang on.

We got ages. It's a dream or something. It's fine, whatever. What if it's not a dream, though? Well, then we don't have ages. It's a risk I'm willing to take. Guys, it's a good film. Watch it.

Look, the necklace fell right off the back of a neck or whatever. It's real good. I'm sad for you, Dutra, because you got enough Coke Zero for not the whole film. Oh, no. Buy it. I'll know. I'll know straight away. Yeah, and then you can Dutra, because you got enough Coke Zero for not the whole film. Oh, no. But I'll know.

I'll know straight away. Yeah. And then you can pull the two of us out. That's no metal. Or you can just leave. No, your kick will be I'll grab both your heads and bang them together. Oh, that wasn't a kick. Then you don't leave, idiot.

We wake up in the car crashing and we look over at you who's still asleep. You're like, well, then you're going to run headfirst at a wall to wake up. Oh, let's pick a fight with that ox. Ox! Ox kick you. That's a big kick. You're going to get rocketed forward too much. Our problem is going to be we don't know

kick degrees. We're bad at deciding the right level of kick. That's such a problem. Imagine we're at the third layer, nearly at the inception, and then a big kick happens. We're rocketing all the way back to real life. We're like, God fucking damn it. Or an explosion

happens, and I'm at the center, and you're in the middle, and you're at the edge. And so I rocket back to real life. Zamit, you're like, dream one. And Douche is like, dream two, or whatever. Like, well... Your boys are separate forever now. We fucked it. real life zamit you're like dream one and douche is like dream two or whatever like well your boys are separate forever now we fucked it so basically what we're going to do is every stage we just got to get an ox yeah it's got to like smack on the rum so it kicks us and caves our

chest in and sends us flying what if every level of the dream we have helmets that explode our head? At different degrees. No, but, no, no, no. We just need to set it so that if one goes off, they all go off. Ah, clever. So we always get kicked at the same time. How about instead, because I'm scared of blowing my own head off, we put that helmet on that ox. And the ox blows up. The ox wakes up

in real life. And the ox, in its exploding frenzy, kicks out and hits us. It was the OX exceptioning us this whole time. Waking up at the back of a car, panicking, kicking out a window. I don't know what noise an OX makes. Me neither.

It was very good to get, like, Cecilion Murphy in the middle of, like, six oxen. Ball plug. He's destroyed the car. Is this how you insert? I'm a professional, yes. This is how we do it. Oxen, they're just so sneaky.

Imagine we get to, like, layer three and we all become oxen ourselves. And we're like, something went wrong. Something went wrong in layer three. I don't know what it is. This ain't right, guys. I'm going back to layer two, still an ox. I'd be scared to wake up.

Guys, what if I am an ox? You wake up and there you are. Just an oxen attached to Cillian Murphy. Oh, my God. I was an ox the You wake up and there you are. Just an ox and attached to Cillian Murphy. Oh my God. I was an ox the whole time. I forgot. I dreamed too deep. I dreamed I was a man.

I was an ox dreaming I was a man. Dreaming I was an ox. Oh no. It's actually scary. An ox that was dreaming that was a man. It was dreaming it was an ox that dreamed that his wife killed himself. Yeah. See, really,

what we assumed was layer one, which was the car crash, was actually layer two. Layer one was what is actually considered real life. But the real top layer, i.e. the actuality, a bunch of

oxen in a field having a thing. Not even asleep, just having a thing. Just having a hard thing. What if I was an inception? What if I was a man who went into other men's dream? And someone spooked it, he kicks, he's like, I got an idea. Big kicks. If I went all the way back up, say I went in the car and I'm an ox,

and then we hit the water and I was an ox again, and then something else happened and I was finally a man. Every time I saw an ox, like my life would be destroyed. Imagine you just driving along, you look in a field and there's an ox. You'd just be like, is that me? When I see a thing, I'm not like, is that me? But if you'd been an ox. No.

You might be like, is that one of my kind? I'm a man currently. And when I see another man, I'm not like, is that me? Excuse me, sir. Are you me? But you've never swapped around. Yeah. You don't know.

I was a boy. Now I'm a man. When I see a boy, I'm not like, are you me from the past? Yeah, but not instantly. It was a gradual. No, it was through puberty. Like how most people do it. I think when you came out of a dream,

I would not know what was real and what wasn't. Oh, exactly. That's different, but I wouldn't see an ox and be like, that me. Maybe, though. It might just be you see an ox being like, I'm still dreaming. Yeah. You go up and touch it. You're like, oh, this is nice.

This is good. This is what an ox is meant to feel like. And then it kicks you and you wake up and you're like, ah. I just keep kicking myself. Ah, I just, that's exactly what happened to Cobb's wife. Yep. That's what would happen to me. It's good to imagine Cobb, his wife, and me at the bottom.

How did we get to the bottom drain, Cobb? Cobb, you fucked up somewhere. How do they get to the bottom drain? They just keep going, I think. Just like, I fucked up somewhere. How do they get to the bottom dream? They just keep going, I think. Just like, I don't know. I can imagine just that beach field or whatever. And it's just like, there's Cobb, his dead wife, and you as an ox.

An ox with your voice. Help! Hey, am I an ox in real life, Cobb? Is this good? Cobb's not a name. Cornontha, I'll call you. And Mrs. Corn on the, in brackets, deceased. His name's Dom.

That train is coming. His name's Dom Cobb. Dom Cobb. Dominic Cobbinetti. And on that note, I've been Joel. I've been Jackson. And I've been Joel. I've been Jackson. And I've been dumb Joel. And that's how inceptioning work.

Or started, which is what the question was. With our big kicks. Drink Coke and visit our SansPensPlus website to give us money. We deserve it. I need to get paid more for this gold. Dumb fuck jam ain't free. Thanks for listening, and if you want to follow us on Twitter, you can find us at Sandspants Radio,

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and we'll see you again next time. Goodnight for now. But not forever. Kisses.