Plumbing the Death Star - How Effective is the Prime Directive? (Feat. Adam & Shanks)

Episode Date: February 19, 2017

In which our heroes write in their captain’s log, get Scotty to beam them up and try and live long and prosper as they ask just how effective is the Prime Directive?Want to help support the show?Patreon: patreon.com/sanspantsradioPodkeep: sanspantsradio.podkeep.comUSB Tapes: audiobooksontape.comMerch: redbubble.com/people/sanspantsradio or teepublic.com/stores/sanspantsradioWant to get in contact with us?Email: [e-mail] Twitter: twitter.com/sanspantsradio Website: sanspantsradio.comFacebook: facebook.com/SansPantsRadioReddit: reddit.com/r/sanspantsradioOr individually at;Jackson: twitter.com/AlldogsaredeadZammit: twitter.com/GoddammitZammitAdam: twitter.com/RetroArchetypeShanks: twitter.com/timtimfed Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Elective. Surgery. Elective. Surgery. What is the prime directive? I think Shanks is the best answer. I would imagine you would. You'd be surprised. The prime directive, I don't have the... Dictionary definition.

Yeah, the dictionary definition, but it states if uh whilst we are on our star track if we encounter a civilization who is yet to discover warp travel i think that's the i believe qualifier yeah i think that's the turning point if they get to discover warp travel which basically means they can't travel to other uh solar systems yeah then you're not allowed to interfere or contact them uh because uh the federation is the uh the united federation is kind of the un of space in the star trek universe right and so basically it's like hey here's some guys who have discovered warp travel like so that means they're cool and they can you know they can hang with the cool guys yeah so let's like kind of introduce them and be like

congratulations you've discovered the next level we We all live here. It's like introducing them from a single-player game into an MMO and being like, hey, come join our crew. So how do you develop warp drive? Via scientific discovery, the way we develop. Can we assume that everybody's got the same scientific trajectory? Is that how it works in Star Trek? I just suppose, not necessarily, but I suppose the idea is that if you came upon a group of cavemen like this is actually they break look they break

the prime directive all the time in star trek it's like the first rule is never break the prime directive and the second rule is like unless you wanna like in the jj abrams verse into darkness they break the prime directive right at the beginning of the episode. That's to save a world, though, isn't it? Yeah, which is often a thing. And Picard will usually side on the fact of, like, no, the extinction-level event was going to happen anyway, so just let it happen.

That is more natural than our interference, which I think is really cool. But at the beginning of Into Darkness... Well, yeah, actually, because what happens if that extension extension level event then led to several millennia something better exactly like whatever you're dead give a caveman a gun what if um what if they interfered from wiping out the dinosaur yeah exactly so it's kind of that thing of like it's beyond app control so let's not do it but if they're part of the federation you know they're kind of already wise like yeah, yeah, we'll give them a hand.

At the beginning of Into Darkness, Bones and Kirk are found on a planet that is very primitive. They are there to assist Spock, who is inside a volcano, trying to stop it from blowing up and destroying the world. Anyway. Classic Spock. Bones and Kirk get found out and they are being chased by the savages. They end up jumping off a cliff and getting saved by the Enterprise because of action. And then at the end of that scene, there's this great moment where we kind of come back to the savages, they end up jumping off a cliff and getting saved by the Enterprise because of action. And then at the end of that scene, there's this great moment where we kind of come back to the savages and they are drawing in the sand the Enterprise as its new god

because that is why you don't interfere. And then unfortunately we never revisit that and that's just a pointless holdover. Oh yeah, you were telling. That would have been a really interesting epilogue. I would have loved that would be the plot. They then go back and they're like, hey, we're not gods. And they wouldn't believe them.

It's like, no. Imagine if they found like, surely they've broken the prime directive on enough primitive planets that there's just like this universal religion based around like the Enterprise. Surely that's got to happen. Without the ability. Heaps of people all over the galaxy just being like, that's God. That's what God looks like. Comes down, fucks your women, leaves. Not the ability to intercommunicate

because they don't have warp travel. I don't know if it's a centralized religion or if it might be more of a Judaism, like Islam, Christianity type deal where it's like, oh, all of our gods are called Enterprise, but our God stands for these things and their god stands for those things. Weirdly, every single religion is like,

God can fuck our women. That's allowed. That's definitely something Kirk says to every native species he encounters. This is a universal concept. Given that, I am God. Hello, Captain Kirk, I can fuck your women. That was a flawless impression.

I like to imagine the Federation sending out other ships and those ships being like the goddamn Enterprise. You find a primitive planet and they're worshipping the Enterprise. You're like, goddamn. Those motherfuckers. They land, we'll get our women. What? God damn it.

You probably encounter that with the Enterprise a lot considering the Prime Directive isn't a thing until next generation. Oh, really? Is that because of the... I have to imagine.

I mean, I don't remember any reference to it in the original series. I'm actually not sure about this. I'm going to do a quick little... We're going to put in some system to stop this happening. Kirk is responsible. it certainly is largely effective in the original

series because I think I can name off the top of my head three instances in the original series where the Federation has colonized the planet and they're like shit there was an indigenous species here the one time they nearly There was an indigenous species here. The one time they nearly wiped one of them out.

It's this weird blob creature that, like, I don't know, it's subterranean, digs holes and stuff like that, and there's a mining facility there. Well, actually, I have to correct you, Adam. The Prime Directive is in the original series. Oh, is it? It is. In fact, it was introduced in the very first season of the original series. What?

What episode? Does it say? Episode is. In fact, it was introduced in the very first season of the original series. What? What episode? Does it say? Episode one. That'd be funny, yes. Not even episode one. Sorry, I'm just getting. The prequel that gets cut up into... The original name of the show was Prime Directive, the series.

They certainly don't bring it up much in the original series. Maybe it's more like guidelines rather than rules. And for Kirk, it's like, whatever, they won't find us out. We're just like one... If I was captain of the Enterprise and people were like... Which you might be one day. And like, fingers crossed, I'm doing well in the Academy. Not great, because I'm lazy, but I'm doing all right.

I feel like if people were like, Jackson, Prime Directive, we can't land there. I'd be like, guys, space is big. They're not going to find it. Who's tracking all of space? Who's telling? Data? You? Data would definitely tell. If I had a robot, I'd call him Robot. But they call him Data.

That's basically like calling a human blood. Hello there, blood. Nice to meet you. Don't call me blood just because i'm the only non-android on this shit quiet blood i have some feelings you have feelings we are allowed to hurt them that being said isn't old blood like a an affectionate term for a person yeah i think it old blood oh even or is it old sport Blood is like a street term for a person. And then there's Crips. Yeah.

Is that what you're wondering? How effective is the prime directive detective elective surgery is the question for today. Well, violating the prime directive is like a... What happens when you violate it? Depending, I think... Slap on the wrist? Yeah, I don't know. Well, it happens so often, although it's usually justified in some way in the original series definitely i do actually remember this specifically it would not be a

capital offense because there's an episode where they're like oh this planet don't go to this planet not for the prime directive another reason and it's the only capital offense still on the books oh okay so it's i guess it's just like yeah Yeah, best... But again, maybe space is big. So they're like, you fuck up one planet, they're like, whatever, there's heaps of others. Well, like, the Prime Directive is often violated because some other advanced alien tribe has already interfered in kind of a primitive place, in which case it's sort of a grey area where it's like...

It's like the seal's already been broken. Well, the Federation themselves have already interfered. It's like if the klingons enslaved an entire planet of like cavemen the enterprise would probably be like hey that ain't super nice you can probably do something about that guys because like with uh say klingon because they've they've got warp drive right yeah yeah and but they're just a bunch of cunts yeah well they are in the first well they're they're a warrior race. And one of the great things about Star Wars is that I get a real boner for diplomacy in things. That's why I love to rival so much.

I'm like, oh, talking it out. In the first series of Star Trek, like the Klingons are the baddies. And then in the next series, next gen, we got a Klingon on the bridge. And in that series, like the Borg are the baddies. And then come Voyager, we got a Borg on the bridge. and in that series like the borg are the baddies and then come voyager we got a borg on the bridge and like you know ferengi are baddies and then we got a ferengi working at dspace nine it's kind of this cool thing of like yeah again very utopian yeah so yeah they are kind of dicks but you know they're they're just uh they're a warrior race wolf loves omelets he does love omelets do you know what episode that is i do not i i don't i think I've seen every Next Gen episode.

Is that maybe on Deep Space Nine? I have no idea. Riker makes omelettes. Everybody hates them, but Worf loves them. No, no, I've seen that. I don't remember being on them, but I remember that Riker's cooking was bad. Everyone's like, give me your ranks.

Riker's like angry, but he looks at Worf and he's like, good. So with... Someone appreciate it. My question there is, so you can be a warrior race and be kind of violent or whatever, and you can still get to the warp drive, and then it's like, come to our club. It's like, I'll come to your club and punch you in the face. Actually, I don't think Klingons are part of the Federation. Klingons and Romulans aren't part of the Federation.

Yeah, no, they're their own things. Yeah, they're their own things. Like Vulcans are part of the Federation. Yeah, Vulcans are part of the Federation. Okay, so it's not like you're automatically in the they're their own things. Like Vulcans are part of the Federation. Yeah, Vulcans are part of the Federation. Okay, so it's not like you're automatically in the club. It's like, this is the club, do you want to join? No. And in fact, a warp travel is what attracted Vulcans

to humans in the first place. As we saw in the film Star Trek First Contact, Zephram Cochran invented warp drive on Earth and it was that first warp drive test that made the Vulcans be like, oh, let's go check these guys out. So the Vulcans already had warp drive? Yeah, yeah, they the Vulcans be like, oh, let's go check these guys out. So the Vulcans already had warp drive? Yeah, yeah, they're more advanced than us.

The bastards. More advanced in some ways, less advanced in others. Their mating rituals are weird as fuck. What are the mating rituals again? I forget what it's called, but, like, once every lifetime or so often, I don't know which it is, but Vulcan gets this powerful urge to mate, and if they don't mate, then adrenaline gets flooded so heavily into their systems

that they die. Mate or die, motherfucker! Yikes. That's intense. It's messed up in a lot of ways. Does it matter with whom they mate? Do they have to mate with Vulcan, or if there's a Trifid around, they can just go nuts?

It's often like a arranged marriage type deal. So, like, when you're, you know, early on, your family will arrange for a mate for you later on. But, yeah, it's just weird. What happens if you don't sync up right? What happens? Well, the woman can be like, I don't like you. I'm going to get this other male to go for me.

And then the two males fight to the death. That exact scene. She's like, I choose Kirk. Of course you would. Who wouldn't? But what about if it's like a simulacrum of them? Like a fake Vulcan. Do you get your urges out to fuck on one of them?

No, it's like, I think a Vulcan could, but it's like a deeply... It's like culturally wrong. Yeah, Spock's mum is a human. Yes. So when this occasionally happened to Spock's dad and he's like, I can't fuck my wife. I don't know, to be honest. We could ask him, but he's dead. I don't know how they fell in love.

Oh, Saruk. I just quickly looked up the prime directive incidentally it was it first introduced in an episode that i dearly loved called uh the return of the archons because um this planet right a enterprise uh ship called the archon not enterprise sorry federation ship called the archon had like crash landed there and these people began to revere or like understand the federation as the archons naming them after their ship and it's this weird planet where star trek invented the purge 40 years before the movie the purchase well that's good so was it was that just a bunch of um uh vulcans no it was just an art or just no it wasn't like the ship but they're like the archons

no they're federation so they were probably a mix of... So there were humans there. Yeah, humans. So what I'm asking is, like, so the Prime Directive only happened after they interfered with us. Sorry? Right? So if humans are a part of this, and that's when the Prime Directive was like, actually, here's the Prime Directive, that means before that, there was no Prime Directive.

No, I guess it was just good judgment, because we still weren't contacted until after we got a war travel. They might have had a different name for it, maybe. Maybe it was like, we interfere with them, but not too much. What do we think? Why do we sit on the prime directive? Good or bad? Well, I think it's, if you look at human colonization history, when a much more advanced civilization uh by civilization i'm

you know saying you know whomever like the the colonies versus the uh indigenous who perhaps aren't as industrially they don't have guns they don't they don't got no guns like that hasn't worked out super well that's except for new zealand hey buddy this guy We signed a treaty, we kissed, did a hukka And that was it, there was no badness No badness That's good, you sorted it out We did alright Relatively speaking

We celebrate the day Captain Cook massacred A people You're like, let's not We still do, don't we No, your day is different You celebrate the day you made the treaty We signed the treaty, Waitangi Day let's not yeah we still do don't we no your day is different i remember i mean you still do we do yeah you you celebrate the day you made the tree on the tree white tangy day which is a i mean clever way better that's a bit nicer um well i was gonna say what about like landing on say you

land on a planet full of cavemen give him a gun go see what happens what about like a boost what's wrong with giving him a boost yeah like that's, that's what I'm thinking. Like, I mean, again, it's... Like 2001 style? Yeah, drop a bloody... Knowledge bomb? An obelisk and go. Because, again, it's kind of like the whole Wizards. Like, how dare they?

Whereas it's like this kind of thing. It's like, you're up there. We're having wars. Yeah. We're having wars. We're killing each other. We're all this kind of stuff. And you have the ability to be like, guys, you're not alone.

This is fine. Here's some technology. You can explore space. Don't worry about attacking. But who's to say war is so bad for that civilization? Imagine if we'd had the power to destroy ourselves with nuclear technology for like 500 years instead of 50 years. Plus, you don't want to find like this primitive race of angry aliens with, I don't know, all Star Trek aliens are like one feet. Really, big lips, whatever.

And you're like, okay, here's a spaceship and shit, go nuts. And then suddenly we've got this crazy group of people that aren't quite as emotionally developed as the rest of space. With all the technology of emotionally developed space. Causing trouble and then we're probably going to have to blow them up anyway. Putting a child in charge of a helicarrier. Exactly. Best not. But why don't they get something like, say, rather than being we don't interfere,

it's like, well, we interfere a little bit. Because they could easily mold our culture. It's hard to draw a line there. That's just indoctrination, isn't it? Yeah. That's actually Jedi bullshit there. Sure is. I'm coming from the position of like it'd be funny But if

Aren't you always Like just dropping in and being like Hey guys here's a helicopter Bye seeing what happens I'm all for it for Bloodsport I just think we do that Outside of the Federation We get in a little Ferengi vessel because they're all about Gambling and we'll we'll do we'll make a uh savage culture hunger games and

just kind of watch it yeah kind of fun yeah but because the thing is how policed are the different federation ships what do you mean like by the federation so what i'm what because sam it's like let him meddle but like they maybe they're not meddling for goofs that's true you know all right so how about this well historically speaking sorry just uh every single star fleet admiral usually turns out to be evil now this is just for dramatic tension but it's very rare that there's an admirable and an admirable admiral the only one i can remember from the original series was just an illusion. There you go. Because, yeah, you always want your captain to be the person in charge dramatically.

And so anyone they butt heads with, like, above, you know, always turns out to be evil. Like, insurrection into darkness, the list goes on. Everyone. Yeah, yeah. There's one, like, he wasn't an admiral, but he's like this powerful diplomat in one episode of the original series where he's like, Captain Kirk, you can't do this stuff. You've got to be diplomatic. They're being shot at. And he's like, you're not allowed to shoot back.

And Captain Kirk's like, ah, I've got to shoot back. My people are dying. And through the natural progression of the episode, Captain Kirk is shown to be correct. And the diplomat is like, oh, well, maybe I will cede power to you, because you seem to, you know, it's like, there's a little bit... Diplomacy!

Diplomacy happens, and it's like a little bit more, you know, not everyone's evil, I guess. A bit more grey. That's good. Not everyone's evil or illusionist. There are some alright people. So, has there ever been an evil Vulcan? Yeah.

Yeah. What race is it? Romulans. Just like descendants. Well, Romulans are evil Vulcans, kind of. It's a generalization, of course. Yes. Rude.

So as soon as they get a ship full of Vulcans, they can meddle. They seem like they got their shit together. How corruptable is a daughter? How about just a bunch of daughters? They're very logical to a fault. Vulcan society is far from perfect. They repress their emotions

in scary ways. They are the representative of the purely Apollonian side of the Ubermensch. We need a bit of Dionysus. Apollo needs a little smattering of Dionysus. this this apollo needs a little smattering of dionysus a little more eye of newt in this in this man stew that we're making i'm liking the phrase man stew um what about a bunch of bunch of daughters then

well again well well data was basically the uh the spock surrogate of the next generation like he was like we can't do a Vulcan again. Who's the emotionless, logical being? Oh, a robot. A robot. We need the id or whatever. Yeah. Whatever part of the thing is.

Well, then we just meddle by committee. How about this? Let's each take a ship from the Federation. Oh, gosh. And let's each find a planet with, like, a primitive cave people on it. Uh-huh. And using our different methods, let's try and figure out who wins. Okay.

You can start because you're quite passionate. Oh, no. All right. So the cave people then. Yep. For most of them, I'm just going to observe and watch and see what they do. Cave people. They're just cave people and around eating rocks, whatever.

Yeah, that's exactly my plan as well. I believe in the prime directive. I think it's good. You and I were sharing a ship That's it, I'm captain And I'll be Science officer You're very emotionless

You can be a Spock Can we share a ship then? You're done Let's double captain Double captain this ship We're going to need to both try and share that chair on the bridge We're gonna double chair I'll sit on the floor

I feel like immediate victory to us Simply through your own infighting Are we now just like in a fight? It's a space battle Battle stations They don't know where the buttons are We got this We should have hired on more crew

It's just us The ship's so lonely Let's beam on a nuke or something No okay so we're both looking at this cave planet A war breaks out Looks like they might destroy themselves What's planned Well then that is the way of things

We gotta stop him We gotta stop him We gotta stop him Beam We gotta stop him! Beam the nuke in! Raise the shields! Alright, so what's our tactic of making... There's two warring cave people. Alright, have we had... Cave people can't wipe

themselves out. They found a nuke that a previous Federation ship left. Well, meddling has already occurred then. They found a natural nuke. Okay, there is a super volcano that's about to knock them all out. Yeah, thank you. There we go.

Zammit, we're going to pick the volcano up. Yep. Beam it into deep space. Done. Solved it. Well, I just let him die. No, fair. That's the way of it.

That's quite logical, Captain. That's real good with Captain. That's great. And then Adam and I just start making out and the whole crew loves it. If you like that, then I've got a fan fiction for you. We get a distress call from another Federation ship like, we're losing life support.

And we're just like, leave them to die. We make out. Prime directive. I think to say the prime directive like shut off their channel make out quite logical captain i like to imagine the other ship was dying because of the volcano i like to imagine that was your ship yeah we'd be it onto our ship. Yeah, we'd be interfering like willy-nilly. Oh, instantly. No matter what the problem was, I'm going down.

Yeah. Myself. Okay, two... Then you are the captain. Okay, they're warring at each other, and chances are, look, they're going to wipe themselves out, but it's not going to be like...

They're just going to kill themselves off so their breeding population is quite low. You know what I mean? All right, Officer Zamet. Yeah. Shall we try diplomacy? Beam two of them on the ship? Yep.

Oh, what if they get freaked out by the science? They're going to get freaked out. Yeah. Absolutely. Get the robot. Robot. Yeah. To make a room look like one of their filthy mud huts.

Oh. Then we beam them in. You know what I'd end up doing? You know what I'd end up doing? That won't freak them out at all. Then just beam them in You know what I'd end up doing? That won't freak them out at all Then just beam yourselves down Why are you creating a synoptic of their village? I'm just going to become a god

Every single time I'm like we need to stop them We're going to have to work out The best way we can do this is We know a little bit of their local religion And they believe that a being that looks like this is their god So if we beam down and act as their god, we can stop them. I'm doing that.

Bye. And I do that. But is this kind of to feel the joy of being a god? Sounds like it is. A little bit. Because I would say if we're a next-gen Star Trek or beyond, or beyond, I imagine we have a holodeck. In which case, any god fantasy you have, you can have but better in a holodeck In which case Any god fantasy you have

You can have but better in the holodeck Let's have a god fantasy But my go to How do I get these primitive people Who worship a star To stop infighting or whatever He just needs it to be real He needs the pain to be genuine

That's a violation of the prime directive You're not allowed We'll be quick They are violating the prime directive We You're not allowed. I know, but we'll be quick. They are violating the prime directive is the point. We're trying to argue against these idiots. I really like to imagine Samit beaming down and I'm like, Starship makeouts? Starship makeouts?

He's done it again. He's beamed down. He's trying to be a god. I don't know what to do. I like that your ship is called the makeouts. No, that's yours. I was contacting you. Starship makeouts.

Starship logical makeouts. Logical makeouts. Shall we make out?. No, that's yours. I was contacting you. Starship make-out. Starship logical make-out. Logical make-out. Shall we make out? It's only logical, sir. Yeah, you have these two warring tribes or whatever. How would you stop them? I'd bring them onto the ship. We've got a holodeck.

Check them in. Make it look like their planet. I mean, look. So bring them... Wait, no! It's the Federation's problem. Beam them all on the ship. Yep. drive back to home base, drop them off. And then we're getting in trouble, Jack.

We've got to do this on the sly. The exact same scenario if they have invented a warp drive. Like, I'm there. That's what we do at the Federation. We love being ambassadors and diplomats. You've invented warp travel and maybe you're going to destroy yourselves? We're there. We're going to help you out because you guys have a chance for a future now.

Yeah, but this is just warring primitives. So what do we do? If we stop them from warring, they're just going to war again. They need to learn. We can't fashion everything in our image. We are not gods. We are not men. He's like wearing a god out there.

If they don't naturally come to the place where they're peaceful, then like we're not going to be able to stop them. That's their nature. They will then rely on us. Like a child relies on the mother's teat for nutrients. We shall not always be there. What if we're like, you know, metal watchers? You're so logical and sexy, Captain.

In my quarters. I have good news Adam and I are engaged that's a no but fair I don't know I think if there what's the point of being part of the federation we are not space police we are but explorers

trying to widen and bread thin calls from my mom on my cell phone cell phone cell phone my communicator cellular phone cellular phone um i lost my train of thought i'm thinking about my mom answer if you want man that's fine answer your mom yeah it's your mom you don't have to answer on air we'll cut no that's good hey yeah i'm sorry i'm doing a podcast at the moment uh can i give you a call back in a bit okay i'll just quietly listen um which hospital oh my god all right i'll give you a call when i'm leaving all right bye the hospital thing was a gag. Thank God. But would I have interfered if she was bleeding to death? No, for she has not discovered

warp travel. I think that's ridiculous. I hate to start your make-out thing I've ever heard, Captain. What is the point of them? All they do is float around and make out. We're explorers. We're Captain Cook minus the horribleness. Yeah, that's good. Can I not even land?

You can land if they're cool, if they've got the biz But they don't have the biz Not allowed to interfere You can land, but you can't interfere Scenario, it is Earth as it is today And me and Jack are like Not human Whatever we want to be It's Star Trek, so you're probably still human

What type of weird forehead do you want? Weird forehead or coloured skin do we want him to be What do you want him to be Jack? It's Star Trek So you're probably still human To be honest What type of weird forehead Do you want? Yeah what weird forehead Or coloured skin do we want? Penis Coming out of a forehead Alright We are the dick heads

We are the dick heads Of SS Big Dick So we see Earth as it is Like I mean There's technology Can we become the SS Small Muff?

SS Makeout. But Small Muff can be one of our life ships. Life ships? Life boats. All right. So we're like the forehead Dickians. And then we're like, see this bunch of humans. And they're like, these guys are pretty good.

They haven't hit warp drive yet, but they've got space travel, they seem to be doing okay. I reckon they're going to hit warp drive maybe in the next century, but if we just went down there now, we could help them out. What a vital century of cultural discovery for that planet that you are

throwing out the window. You are like Adam Sandler in Click, fast-forwarding through the que cues to get to the good parts, and at the end, that movie is sad. I've never heard a better argument for the prime directive. I've never been this engorged, my captain. I hope you fit in my small mouth. No, that's a good argument.

No, it is. Like, I can't argue against the click argument. So he's used the click defense. What if we're looking at this and we're like, all right, look,

we're going to run some numbers. Okay. Okay, so there is, like, a 50-50 chance here that there is a 50% chance that these, like, humans, earthicans, whatever we're going to call them,

earthlings, that they are going to actually do really well, advance their technology, and hit warp drive, hit this perfect utopia, and they can join the Federation. But there's a 50% chance that they might just wipe each other out. I reckon without interference,

and if we just kind of either maybe either subtly or not so subtly kind of help them along and give them a bit more technology a bit of bit of push we can really push that so it's like 70 30 or 80 20. Counter argument. You push it so that they get over the line. They come to walk drive. They're in the Federation now. Whoopty fucking do. But you fudged it.

And now what if it was that other chance where they would have destroyed themselves, and now they're technologically level with us, and now a competitor has decided that they don't like us, or they're going to destroy us? That's part of the reason there. But you're also positing a false dichotomy whereby the chance is either warp drive or complete destruction. Yes.

But you see what I mean? Or it's just like, oh, they didn't have a chance, so they just keep plodding along doing nothing. Well, I still suppose it's just like Oh they didn't have a chance Or they just keep plodding along Doing nothing Well I still suppose It's some degree of cultural terrorism Really isn't it It's alright

Nothing wrong with a bit of CT CT But what we're forgetting is There's so many fun planets We can visit In the Federation But what can we do as a federation Because it sounds really boring

I know I'm bored I'm like All I can do is go to the bar where Whoopi Goldberg works. All I can do is look around and see space and make out with my very attractive captain. Exactly. So what? Tell me what I can do. My very attractive co-captain.

We can interfere. We can interfere so good. We interfere all the time. Every week we interfere with shit. We jump ship onto the SS makeouts. Yeah. All right. We just don't interfere with people from 1986

Unless they have some whales That we need That's a Star Trek 4 reference I know, I'm there But we're always interfering with random One-off aliens That just happen to have had some warp drive That's cool

This seems like you're bending the prime directive to suit your needs Because at any moment they could come say hey to us so we can go say hey to them, and they always have weird conflicts and shit. But you know if some weird alien arrived on the Federation planet and was like, not this ain't good, we wouldn't have any of it. Surely.

We wouldn't kill them. Yeah, maybe. No, we're a peaceful Federation, except for the admirals. There's one branch of us that's bad. One rank is the evil rank. You just gotta get past that rank and you're good again. In Star Wars, every admiral is a squid monster. In Star Trek, every admiral is secretly evil.

Or an illusion. Or that one that was an illusion. Illusory admiral. Actually, there were two admirals. One was real, just badly fucked up. You know, the beep, beep. Wasn't he Pike? Yeah, Pike.

Captain Pike, except he was Admiral Pike in that. That's the first episode of Star Trek, isn't it? The flashback was the original pilot that they cut up and turn into a flashback in the episode. Is there like a grand admiral? Do they go good? Yes. Once you get past admiral, yeah. Is there like a grand admiral? Do they go good? Yes. Once you get past admiral, you're good again. That's right.

Exactly. What's his name? The blonde haired guy that Spock merges with. Oh, Pike. Pike. I just remembered that as well. That's Pike. Yeah.

In the J.J. Abrams movies. Yeah. But yeah, he's all right. Yeah, it's good. They really believe in the monomyth. That they need you to go through your darkest point before you emerge as a Grand Admiral. I find it weird.

It seems like an arbitrary point warp drive. So is the idea that warp drive is when we can interfere because that's when they can interfere with us? Yeah, I guess so. It's basically like, you know, they've invented the phone or like they have now grown beyond planetary means. It's like how 18 or 21 or 16 or whatever the age, relevant age. It's kind of an arbitrary thing that we've chosen because we believe.

But it's less arbitrary than that because I think like if we were to go to like, if we were to discover an island nation that was sort of, you know, what we would consider like savage tribes and we're like, hey, we'll give you guys all iPhones. Like we are destroying that whole whole culture but what about like so i get i get i get it from that perspective but then it for some reason assumes that the the invention of the warp drive coincides with being like a mature and well well-to-do race because that would be like waiting for that tribe to be able to get in a boat and come to new york and you know watch the book of mormon and be like oh cool

i get it i think it also coincides with the idea that's what we have here and that's our version of the prime drug i think it also coincides with that uh the idea that that species has outlived the point where one destruction level event could erase their entire species because once you've got warp drive you can go to another planet so if your original planet nukes itself to death you've got warp drive, you can go to another planet. So if your original planet nukes itself to death, you've outlived that. Go get lost like Voyager. But with sort of like the prime directive, but isn't interfering as soon as they discover warp drive,

isn't that also interfering? It still feels like interfering. It feels like you're trying to have your cake and eat it too. Well, after they discover warp drive. Yeah. Yeah, like it's interfering, but by then they're mature. It's not really interfering. It's more like, would you like a space in the Federation?

Yeah. What it seems like, what you like a space in the Federation? Yeah. What it seems like, what if you've got like this planet and this planet are full of like, just like the worst people. They just do terrible things to each other and they will do terrible things to everyone else. And then because they're so like intent on causing pain and destruction, they all unify together and make a warp drive. Yeah.

And we're like, neato! You've read Douglas Adams? Yeah, the evil race that the cricket is from. Whatever they were called. I don't remember that. I know the one you mean. There's like seven books. I think it ties a little bit into Gene Roddenberry's idea where he's like,

or the Federation, I guess, because he created them, whatever, have this idea that if your curiosity outpaces your violence, then you will discover warp travel. What about if it's a bit of both? We are curious to discover warp travel so we can go to other planets and either fuck, kill, or eat them. But that's fine. We never said they had to join the Federation. Yeah.

Like, the Borg can warp. The bloody Ferengi, Romulans, Klingon, any baddies. okay how about this how about this when we have to we are finding uh on our um a planet they're on the verge of is it m class let's say yes okay well if it's m class god i'm good what's m class m class is like earth like life people yeah so it's a planet. And there's a bunch of people. So a whole nation, they're like, look, we know with our telescopes and all other bullshit that we can see out to the far reaches of space.

And we know there's other places out there. As a whole race, we're like, kill them. Kill them? Let's kill them. Fuck, kill, eat them. That's our plan. That's our plan. So they want to kill the universe. Yep, yep. And so we're going to- It's a doomsday planet. It's a doomsday planet. It's kill them. Fuck, kill, eat them. That's our plan. That's his plan. So they want to kill the universe.

Yeah. And so like, it's a doomsday planet. It's a doomsday planet. It's a doomsday planet. They're like, let's build a warp drive. It's a sort of death star.

Yeah, if you will. More of a planet, like a, but it's a base. Yeah. Like a star killer base, if you will. Yeah, like the second death star.

Yes. Third. Yeah, like the second Death Star. Yes. Third. So if you have like that, and they're like, well, we're going to just cobble together this walk drive, right? The Starship make-outs. Hey, yo, this is Federation. We're Rukaj now with our captains. How you doing?

Hey, Starship big old big dick? No, we joined your ship. You get to give us roles, but that's fine. We'll wait. So where are you on the ship? I was also being Federation. I'm assuming Cook and Cleaner. All right, cool.

Who gets what? So you're Neelix. And you're more Neelix. I don't know. I'll just generally hang around. But the Federation contacts you, contacts the Starship make-outs and is like, guess what?

So if we get this planet down here, their whole missive is that we want to fuck, kill and eat every other planet in the universe. They're about to create a warp drive. We're just leaving it in your hands. We trust in you to make the right decision. To make the right choice. See you when you get back to base. And then it's you and the bridge. Everybody's there for some reason. I'm just generally hanging around

in the bridge. We're just waiting there. And it's been dirty, so Zammett's cleaning it. Yep. You're cooking omelets for Worf to gel down. Worf loves my fucking lovism. What's the plan, Captain? Well, First Officer Adam. Science Officer. Science Officer Adam.

Okay. Zammett, you're my First Officer. All right. You've been promoted. Flip, I just throw the mop down? Yes. Not many people on this ship. Well, I would call a meeting of the heads of department.

Do I count as cook? Well, your head does help Howl on Voyager, but that's because he's kind of a Delta Quadrant expert. But sure, cook can come in. See you. War's hungry. I call a meeting to discuss the plan. Now, as a federation head, uh a fed head if you will um i would respect that

i'm proposing we respect the prime directive i'm interested to hear uh everybody's thoughts yeah i say we monitor this planet if they are on the cusp of this technological uh advancement i would wait in hiding uh under cloak not that we're allowed to cloak on a Federation ship, because we don't have the technology. We're not Romulans. We're not Romulans. And then when they achieve their first warp test, then we will beam down and try and find a diplomatic solution to the scenario. And if they are warmongering and they try and declare war on the universe

and as such the Federation, then I will report to our seniors and we will deal with it as a military threat captain as as cook as head omelette boy for wolf um you have a military question does it not seem as though like it would cause less damage to just knock them out now because then what if they warp somewhere else all at once and then we're like just standing with a planet in our pants around our ankles? We are yet to actually have proper verbal communication with these people. How can we be

so certain as to their intentions until we have maintained a diplomatic discourse with them? Hi, Captain. First Officer Zamzam. Previous cleaner. Unkey Zamzam. One question. Several things. Wouldn't it be easy previous cleaner so one question

several things wouldn't it be easy if we just pop down now and be like hey yo we know what you're doing we know you're trying to build a warp track we know what they're doing and like maybe try and convince them try that diplomacy to be like maybe don't kill us all

well I think that the moment they cut it out nip it in the bud I feel like both of you are asking the same question and also overriding your captain You will be respectful Well yeah, I mean in the presence of your

kind of the same question, it's just like do we talk to them now or do we talk to them in five minutes when it's legal? Let's just wait till it's legal By the time we talk to them when it's legal they might have already Yeah Is their first jump ever going to be a jump They're like, let's just wait until it's legal. But by the time we talk about when it's legal, they might have already... Yeah. It's their first jump ever going to be a jump to send the doomsday machine. What if it takes them 100 years, right,

to get to that point where, like, wasting away or whatever. When it gets to 100 years, that's 100 years of their, like, fuck space propaganda. Well, actually, you raised an interesting point earlier on, which is, and I'm not sure about this, which is that you said through uh galactic telescopy telescopy they have seen that other ships exist and other cultures exist so if they are already aware of other civilizations i wonder if then does that violate the prime directive they already know we exist they did it themselves they got interfered with

like that's on them that's not the federal Yeah yeah So they've discovered us So then I kind of feel like Maybe we can go and chat Yeah no actually It's a fair point I don't know like The specifics of the prime directive In that regard

But we might be able to If they're obviously aware of us Then it's like Almost a mute point You are correct Yeah You reckon so You reckon

Because they know of us That means like basically We know of Like it's just it's all good We can beam down and Alright fuck it let's do it away team go Okay all four of us Okay we're on the planet

What's it like? Hot I imagine very hot Yeah I'm kind of picturing like a command and conquer Kind of like the The nod race whatever they're called That's kind of fanatic to me. A barren, crusty wasteland. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, yeah, the Nod with the scorpion. Yeah, lots of scorpion-y things. What a sucky planet. Yeah. I hide it. Let's go find the leader. Okay, I think we beam him back before the diplomatic discussion begins. Or, set phasers to stun, turn on him.

Oh, that's it. If you beam me back, I'll cause merry hell on the ship. Set phasers to stun, turn on him. Oh, that's it. If you feed me back, I'll cause merry hell on the ship. Set phasers to stun and get him now, Captain. He left off to our devices. It's only logical, Captain. But it would already be nuked. Enterprise, please beam Omelette Boy into the sun. I'm going to get on the ship.

Wait, wait, wait, these eggs are overcooked! I'm imagining... He has an. Wait, wait, wait! These eggs are overcooked! I'm imagining... I'm imagining he has, like, an ammo belt. It's with eggs. I'm imagining Jackson's, like, race is a race of people that are kind of the opposite of Vulcan. Oh, right, they already do have that. Wait, are you still a dick on your head, man?

Yeah, I am. Are you using eggs, or are you just kind of, like, ejaculating? I squeeze an egg out of my... It's not a real penis. It just looks like one. All right. You turn to the captain, you're like, my people are incapable of logic.

They never really had the absolute anti-Vulcan on, did they? Excellent. Cue a base impulse. Yep. All right. So you've stunned me or send me to the sun. All right, cool. And now we're talking to the evil dude.

Hey, evil dude. Squimlo. Huh? Squimlo. Squimlo. Hey, Squimlo. Hey, how you doing? Hey, we were orbiting your planet.

We're from the... You don't look like us, I noticed. I'm Captain Shanks. I've got to say that before. Our foreheads are clean. Captain Shanks. I'm Captain Shanks of the uh united federation of planets or whatever it's called yeah united i quite like that like as a captain it's funny

to imagine you're just like not quite brushed up and everything like before you're like i don't really remember the prime directive it's kind of vague idea um i i hope you will grant me and my my crew here an audience for uh we are very impressed by the evolution of your civilization. We'd like to invite you to join our totally sick club. Well, I'll let you know that you're very lucky because normally our go-to is just fuck, kill, or eat. Well, don't rule out the first one. Okay.

Scary. But yeah, look, I guess we'll get you an audience. That's fine. I'd like to lean in. So with the tricorder, I've managed to deduce this creature seems to be quite biologically similar to our cook. For to beam up. Yeah.

Well, we're going to warp and we're going to just destroy the universe. That's the plan. That's a go-to. Well, we kind of rather you not because we're part of the universe and we totally dig it. And there's a lot of non-warp-based cultures in the universe and we can't disturb them. Right. Why? That's not well and good for you.

Well, here we go. That's not well and good for you, but we're probably still going to... Are we in trouble? Kind of, yes, because it's sort of an act of war against everyone. So, are you here to, like, stop us? Are you going to try and kill us? What's the go here? Not since The Chasers has there been such a war on everything.

That was a terrible reference. Well, if you're not here to kill us... Well, we're not here to kill you, but at the first act of aggression, on the scale of that, we might have to intervene. What's that going to look like? Give me a ballpark. What are we talking here?

Okay, our first action is a verbal warning. No, it's a verbal invitation to join our utopian love fest. Yeah, we'd rather not. I think the idea was... Can I be your visa? Yeah, sure. rather not. I think the go-to, the idea was... Can I be your visa? Yeah, sure. Come in. Captain, there is a precedent for destroying their civilization.

Or, you know, if you say launch the space nuke, I guess we'd try and contain it within a force field and blow it into the sun. There is precedent for destroying their civilization. Not really our problem, is what you're saying. In one of the episodes in saying? Wait, wait, wait. What precedent?

And then if that doesn't... In one of the episodes in the original series, Kirk, his ship is about to be destroyed, so he's like, his people are going to be destroyed, and he's like, well, not if we destroy you first, and we can.

So you're going to nuke us. You're going to get us. Well, no. Because we'll fuck you and eat you. The third option would be that. We're not what? We'll turn everyone you love into fucking dust. How about this?

We'll join and I give you a bit of a wink. Yeah, I'll wink back. Your federation. I feel like you're making a good argument for us. Yeah, I think we need to get off this planet Trojan. Warp drive. You're saying like push them to get warp drive.

What have we given you people warp drive? Hang on. Yeah, we'll join you with your federation if you give us some warp drive technology. Well, you're already at that level. We'll happily exchange the knowledge of the federation with you. Too bad. I take off my mask. I was the federation all along.

You broke the prime directive. You're fired. Back to ship. We'll hit them with a with a Genesis nuke and turn the planet into a lush forest murdering them all.

Perfectly logical, Captain. To my ready room. The boudoir, you mean. And so they made out until the end of time. What a good episode. That was the worst episode of Star Trek ever. And that's including Spock's brain.

They had literally no, like, you know, in between. There was no three-act structure. There was no room for commercial breaks. Well, that's actually an interesting idea for an episode i i don't know when uh i haven't quite seen something like that where the federation encounters i haven't seen every single episode by any means but yeah encounter somebody so dog-headedly like oh no it's gonna kill everyone i suppose because it's usually more confrontational it's like we're gonna kill everyone and then they shoot the enterprise and they're like well i guess we can shoot back shoot the Enterprise. And they're like, well, I guess we can shoot back now. Move on. But if they're like, no, our intent is to warp a nuke into space and just get you off.

Yeah, if you guys attack the Federation, the Federation isn't just going to take it lying down. Then we'll attack back. We got a bunch of space pussies. Their first instinct is to always pull hard to make friends. We've got a Klingon full of omelets ready to take you down. So I guess the best tactic for us is to wait, really, to be like, sure, we'll join your federation. When we kind of earn their trust, then we crush it.

Suckers, that'll take years. You'll be bred out, and the new generation, maybe you will like the federation. No offence, but I don't think you're going to win our trust. You haven't stopped constructing that super weapon. What are you talking about? We are constantly wary of you No, it's a good thing for farming

This is an aeration device We're monitoring your ambassador's communications And we have tricorders that tell us Literally everything about anything Like we all recognise a nuke Plot depending Plot depending There's interference in this.

Fucking hell. So prime director would be just to not interfere with them. They are going to come and fuck up the world or the fuck up the universe. But the only real thing is you just got to wait until it happens. It's very reactor-y, isn't it? Once again, if they've spotted the Federation and been like, fuck them for some reason,

then like... That's the whole nation giving the sky the bingo. What about if it's just like a general, we're sending a nuke out into space to see what happens? Yeah. Well, if it's for scientific study and we have monitored it safely, you know, quietly, clandestinely, and we can see that no ill will come of it

other than to perhaps the people who sent it themselves. What if it seems like a significant amount of ill is going to be on its way? Well, then are you doing it with hostile intent or is it just scientific endeavour? It's more like we got a lot of nukes. Got to do something with them. Well, that's irresponsible of you. If it's scientific and it's going to interfere with a federation planet

or something, then maybe we'll just kind of track the beam it away and make you guys think something happened. There should have been something where, like, you sent it to the same solar system, where it's like one group has the warp driver, one group doesn't. Because then, like, the group that has them, they just don't notice. It's like, let's just send some nukes up into space and see what happens. Gets caught in, like, a warp drive thing. Things go boom.

That could be bad. Funny. But, like, we don't mean to. We're just like, press the button. Like, of course, they'll initially be an accident but if we know there's a planet sending nukes out for some reason probably just collect them and stop yeah that's it i guess well fuck like i mean i mean we are gone we just don't want you to know it it's like you know playing black and white it feels like you guys are just like parents to our

stupid toddler ways. I feel like that constantly, to be honest. I don't think there's been a single episode of anything, ever, where I haven't felt like that. It's like, where me and Jack, Jack's about to, like, put a fork into, like, a socket in a wall.

I'm like, oh, sick! Oh, Jack. I grab his hand. He's like, oh, good, he's learning. He's like, gonna stop Jack from, oh, no, he's helping. He's guiding. He's got another wall,

and another, they're gonna do it twice. Like a toddler with a gun, waving the gun around, occasionally firing. All we're doing is just shooing other people out of the way. Yeah. Like hoping that either you'll learn what the gun truly is and that we are there. My god stick. Or if you kill yourself with the gun well like you probably weren't good

enough for us anyway yeah it's very darwinian like that yeah yeah it is very darwinian because it's like actually with a little bit of interference and then they realize that actually this is not a good power source if you actually just did this and this you'd be actually doing a lot better than like oh sick where we were idiots man thank you so much it's kind of like look at you know cars for example just in our world if we had you know 100 years ago they were like here's a solar panel just use that instead we wouldn't have the same problems we would have having today that's true actually because when most star trek's been made that hasn't really been an issue so like on a meta

textual level like climate change hasn't been like a big deal so i kind of wonder about that now like like wonder if that's worthy of like maybe it's worthy of breaking the prime directive to kind of stop like coal use for other planets like like let's say we like invent like like a sick mad energy thing like we can just kind of give them that like that that's just gonna sustain them it's not really gonna yeah it doesn't take too much from them i don't know about that because like take humanity for example all right like done it i'm sorry if you feel another way but it's kind of an objective truth that climate change is a thing yeah and yet we really haven't stopped i guess exactly that's why i'm saying like maybe some divine intervention would be would be nice but like i see adam's point because imagine you beam down, you're like, hey, here's our Mr. Fusion from

Back to the Future 2, and look, you're good. You're good for energy. Then the petrol companies and the oil companies and what have you are going to be like... If they can't... We can kind of solve this problem already. We don't need intervention. We just aren't solving it. That's because of different issues.

That's the problem. But also history. I'm saying nip it in the bud. So we're talking 100 years ago or something like that's because of different issues. That's the problem. But also history. I'm saying nip it in the bud. So we're talking 100 years ago or something like that. Because the Petro Cup, they only really sort of became bigger when we started using more of that. So if we got it earlier on, where the reason why we're doing this is because of tradition,

or the reason why we're doing this is because of this. If you stop someone before they make a mistake, are they learning a lesson? Does it matter? Yeah. I think it matter? Yeah. I think it does. Yeah, I guess what you're saying is like, intervene before it becomes this giant corporate,

like, tangled mess of Christmas lights that we just can never undo. Yeah. My opinion is that if you can't solve the problem, then you're not learning. But for us, not learning is just dead. Unfortunately. You're such a dungeon master unfortunately that's just the Darwinian nature of things

I think now I'm with you, give him his diffusions I said give a caveman a gun at the start of this episode we've all known what my opinion is from the start whatever is glorious it's this idea of this technology here that could actually help us, and even though, you're right,

here's some just clean energy, and if we got that earlier on, we wouldn't have the same political nightmare that we have in this day and age. But actually, thinking about human beings and how they're garbage, if we were like, hey, everybody, here's a clean energy source, then one group of garbage human beings are going to be like when you guys leave we're nabbing that and controlling that

you know what i mean yeah fine it's better than just that with coal which is happening anyway i suppose in the end it works out better for us like yeah yeah i suppose the idea is that we still don't want to change them culturally like like if that's their nature then that's fine how about this slightly prolong the planet in a way that kind of industry is affecting it i guess yeah you know i mean all like the unintended consequences but then i guess you're making more unintended consequences because like 100 years ago we're like hey here's like a bunch of solar panels just gonna like just put in someone's you know i mean laboratory the prime directive is just like don't butterfly effect because even though you're helping them a little bit now, the eventual cause of that ripple will be massive.

But then isn't, like, not doing anything also a butterfly effect of, like, just of their own volition? But it's a natural butterfly effect. It is? Yeah, it is. It was what was going to happen anyway. On a planetary level. And the way that, like, you know, plastic is natural to a Klingon

because it formed only from things on Earth, you know? I think it's probably because it's just too hard to try and police it all. It's probably a good little caveat to put in and be like, just don't worry about it. It's basically like a not your problem rule. You know what I mean? Kind of. Which is good. Like, I'm for that.

I'm for not having to stop at every garbage planet I find in the middle of a war and do something about it. Yeah, we're not fucking Mormons. Yeah, exactly. If I'm flying past a planet and they're like, oh no, we're all gonna get wiped out by a volcano, I don't want to be like, it is my job to go down to this planet and deal with that. I want to just be able to be like,

sucks to be them. I don't know shit about Mormons. Oh, no, I mean like going on a mission and converting people to our correct way of things. Correct, you know, the Mormon way. Yeah. As much as I'm down for giving a caveman a gun, from that perspective, like, I kind of get it. I'm into that, but let's just do it on the holodeck. Yeah, exactly.

Giving the caveman the gun? Yeah, yeah. So I guess, yeah, whatever. Fuck space travel, let's just kick it in the holodeck? That's always why I've wanted to live in Star Trek, because you can just do anything. Ah, the holodeck is always the problem if there's a problem on the ship. How often has the holodeck gone out of control? Very often.

Or they just find out that Barclay's there fucking the crew, and they're like, this is real uncool, Barclay. Get rid of the holodeck. I'm sorry, but that thing's a menace. Oh, it is great, though. Although it does help in First Contact, where Picard uses holographic bullets to take down some Borg

whilst they're in a living 1930s detective novel. Oh, that's good. I remember that. Yeah, that's a good scene. Good movie. I love that movie. So I guess in a scale of things, how effective is the prime directive? Detective elective surgery.

Did we answer that question at all? Did we answer that question at all? You let me know. Yeah, let us know. It's kind of an infinitely fractalizing question whereby with each new planet a new journey a new frontier these are the voyages of the starship small muff there's one way you could test it could be if you have two planets very similar one you interfere a bunch one you defeat not at all and see what happens? That's a very awful

test. Yes, that will take a million years. It sure will. Oh, I was just saying, like, morally, it's awful. Well, I guess, but, you know, whatever. We're beyond morals. We're above morals. We're in space. We're in space. Whatever. See? He gets it. You were just

complaining about how I wasn't saving enough lives You're literally Not even playing God Just experimenting with A planet of people You're playing God emphasis on playing I think after a while

You just wouldn't value the life of species You'd be like too many of them So it's just like real life And on that note I've been Jackson Bailey I've been Adam I've note, I've been Jackson Bailey. I've been Adam. I've been Joel.

I've been Janks. If you have any opinions on the Prime Directive and how effective it may or may not be and about elective surgery, let us know at Sandspans Radio on Twitter.

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