Plumbing the Death Star - In the Original Tobey Maguire Spider-Man Trilogy, Which Villain Has the Best Plan?

Episode Date: September 18, 2022

Join the boys this week as they nut out an important answer to an important question on this watershed episode of Plumbing the Death Star. Find out where crime sits on the speakeasy to robbery scale, listen to Zammit get X-Menny on us again and hear all about Goblin Madness. The boys tackle all the villains from Sam Raimi’s Spider-Man, from Green Goblin to the Bank that wants to take Aunt May’s house.Buy our terrible merch here and check out the Bad Brain Boys on Apple Podcasts at apple.co/badbrainboys. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

you're listening to the sands fans network hey everyone and welcome to another episode of plumbing the death star i'm joel i'm jackson and i'm also joel and i just realized by me saying another and not this week's makes it seem like i'm sick of it listeners i assure you that is not the case there's another fucking slop on the podcast. Sloppy fucking shows. This week's exciting, huge episode where we ask the important questions. I've set expectations too high because... This is a watershed episode. Sloppy the dance. Turn it down, turn it down, turn it down.

Hit them in the middle, hit them in the middle. Here's an episode of that podcast you are subscribed to or potentially looking to subscribe to that's good where we ask the important questions the importance always been a joke so it's fine that's all right like in the original toby mcguire oh no in the original toby mcguire spider-man trilogy which villain has the best plan Best plan. That might be the best intro we've ever done. Wait, as we edge closer to 500 episodes, the quality just keeps going up and up. Oh, absolutely.

There's no ceiling for Plumbing the Death Star. That's what people say. So, Tobe Maguire's Spider-Man. What was that? It's a lot of stop. Ticked like a clock. Anyway, Tobe Maguire's Spider-Man trilogy. Trilogy. There are three villains.

Wow, there's more than three. There's a lot of villains. There's three in Spider- three villains. Well, there's more than three. There's a lot of villains. There's three in Spider-Man 3. Okay, there's six villains. I mean, do you count J. Jonah Jameson as a villain? There's multiple villains in Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man trilogy. Also, if there's... So, originally you went three.

Yeah. And then I said, no, there's three in the last one, and then you went six. Two plus three equals five. And also actually one of the ones in Spider-Man 3 is a villain in one of the proofs. Anyway, the point is that there are multiple villains in Tobey Maguire's Spider-Man trilogy and they've all

got some kind of weirdo plans. So let's take them as they come and see if we can figure out who's the best one. Yeah, so Spider-Man Un. I guess the main villain of this particular. Double G Green Goblin. No, the burger that shoots Uncle Ben. Joe Chill.

No. No, not Joe Chill. That guy shot Batman. He's an unnamed goon. Unnamed goon, but good friends with Clint Marco. So, okay. His plan, rob a bank,

shoot an old man in a taxi. No, no, no. Also, no. He robbed a... A wrestling... Wait, did he rob the wrestling? Did he rob that underground? Yes.

No, I know. I know know but you say it out loud so there is an underground wrestling promoter uh who's dealing with all cash because he's it's look it's robbing a racket yeah yeah yeah i am because i in the i think he's in the comics he he's just witnesses someone who has just robbed like a store and he's like the comics. He's just witnessed as someone who has just robbed a store, and he finds behind. He's like, not my problem. But in this one. A person's fallen robbing an underground restaurant.

It's tighter. It's tighter. It's tighter, and it's tied into, I guess, actively spite, basically. A bad guy motivator. Yeah. Well, it's crazy. Okay, already. Although, I would say Batman's motivated by spite. He spites crime.

He's a crime spider, already. Although I would say Batman's motivated by spite. He spites crime. He's a crime spider, yeah. And Spider-Man, if he was a bad guy, would be a crime spider. That's interesting. That is a true answer. Oh, never. What a shit episode. It's funny because already this unnamed goon's plan is bad because if you are robbing a racketeer, like a racket.

Well, that explains the gun. But also it means that I would imagine an underground illegal wrestling operation has ties to a larger criminal organization. Well, theoretically, I think that's very possible. Yeah, well, it is possible that it's not an illegal facility, but the way they're operating is illegal, which means that if you rob them, basically, if you find a business that's operating in the gray area, obviously, isn't like a fucking speakeasy. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You need to find somewhere between a safe way and a speakeasy.

Yeah. So like a wrestling organizer, because obviously that's being advertised, so it's not like illegal. No. But the fact that he's never actually paying people that are wrestling. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Bonesaw will fuck them up and he's like, whatever. And they're only operating in cash. Yeah.

There is clearly something. Because then they can't go to the cops because then the cops are like, well, you've cooked your books. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Because that guy, if he's cooking the books. But that means that if you're robbing that place, you were robbing a place

that might have ties. Might, but that's what I mean if it's a grey area. Yeah, it is kind of, yeah. I don't think the New York City mob But like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are going to care about the,

because how much is he really stealing? Yeah, that'd be like a point. Unless like, if his plan was successful, which was to then keep going. Yeah, yeah, that's true. You got a taste of it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. to then keep going. Yeah, that's true. You got a taste of it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, really, what Spider-Man, if that burglar was successful, like Spider-Man has... Burglar? Yeah. Burglar? Burglar. Burglar.

I don't like saying it. We said it too many times. Burglar. Yeah. This guy was successful. So yeah. Move on. Goon. Goon. Goon's easy. this guy was successful so yeah move on this is Goon

Goon's easy Goon is pretty much how we talk normally yeah Goon was successful we talk like goons if someone said hey Plummet the Dust

was my favourite podcast I would be hosted by three goons so if if he was because all he's doing is robbing from I guess

villains yeah and so if he was more because all he's doing is robbing from, I guess, villains. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so if he was more successful, did Spider-Man basically stop a vigilante? Well, no. We stop it before he shoots an old man. No, no, no, because if Spider-Man was also robbing the Green Goblin every time he caught him. But then also. But then the Green Goblin wouldn't have money to fund his gadgets.

This is dangerous because I reckon we get motivation in Spider-Man 3, but can I remember it? No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fresh out of jail? Yeah, they're both fresh out of jail from memory. But I don't...

And they just need the money to fund... Being out of jail? Maybe they can't get a job or something. No, Clint. Clint. Marco. He needs the money because his kids got Clint. Clint. Marco. Yeah. He needs the money because his kid's got cancer.

Uh-huh. Yeah. I don't know why this other dude needs the cash. I think in the movie, there's no, I think it's just this. No, there's a sick daughter. Yeah, she's sick. Sick, huh? Yeah.

He needs money for. Sick of her dad's shit. Stop being made of sand, dad. Grow up. Grow up. Yeah, he needs money for medical bills. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, maybe that's why they're robbing the...

But I guess it's an interesting thing. You know, the Safeway speakeasy scale. Is that a little moth? I don't know. Anyway, the Safeway speakeasy scale. Yeah. You rob a Safeway, and like full on, at gunpoint, rob a Safeway. That's a big deal.

Yeah, because that's one of them famous arm robberies yeah exactly you rob a speakeasy you are probably directly robbing them off yes which is also not recommended but if you go in the gray area it's kind of almost maybe the cleverest yeah it's like it's the equivalent of robbing like a like a tobacco store or something like that that you're like all right well i know you sell some stuff that's a bit- It's a little shady here. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or like an independent weed dealer.

I guess it is like robbing a small-time drug dealer. Yeah, yeah. You're probably going to get away with it because they're not big enough to have full-on- Yeah. Yeah. When you go into one of those independent stores where you're like, alright, you're selling these things as water pourers, but that's a bong.

Yeah, absolutely. And you're like, I know if I asked, you would have ninja stars available. Yeah, you would sell me a sword. Yeah. So maybe that aspect of their plan, clever. Is that a cool move to ask someone to buy a sword and then rob them with said sword? Yeah, I think that's awesome.

I guess if that happens, they probably also have a sword. They get sword fighting. That's cool as hell. You swing your sword back and smash a bong or whatever. That's mad. A water pourer. Water pourer, excuse me. That's cool as hell.

Okay, so I think we've established here that robbing the wrestling ring. Yeah. Brilliant. Shooting Uncle Ben. Let's talk about it. In the middle of a street. In the middle of the street while he's. Brilliant. Shooting Uncle Ben. Let's talk about it. In the middle of a street. In the middle of the street while he's in a car

not doing anything. Surely Uncle Ben tries to stop them or something. Yeah, Uncle Ben is just like, you know, he steps up when Spider-Man does not

and he tries to stop them. Die, old man! Is that what they say when they shoot him? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, let's go with yes. Okay. And it was a bit,

well, again, Sam Mann didn't want to do that. He was just standing there with his thumb up his ass being like, Oh, no. Oh, gee. Oh, no. Oh, my good friend, don't shoot this old man. This thumb is so deep in my ass.

Fuck. It's cool. Is that it? Surely that's just not an Australian thing. You stand around with your thumb up your ass. Yeah. But it does me down as well also

if your thumb's up your ass you're not working that's true you've added pleasure but also removed hand from situation I think I could do this job with my thumb up my ass if we revealed that we recorded this podcast with our thumbs up our ass

everyone would be shocked. I'm shocked it's only one thumb. That's what people would be thinking. Shocked they're not double thumbing it while they record this podcast. It's a watershed episode. Two thumbs up their ass podcast. So yeah, but shooting Uncle Ben, because Uncle Ben does try to stop them. So you've got to do something about that.

Well, Uncle Ben tries to stop him in a weird way. He's like, you're not getting my car. Yeah, they're trying to steal his car. So if they had succeeded, they would have driven off and Uncle Ben would be like, I have no car. But I'm alive. I'm alive. Spider-Man coming out being like, it's so funny to change that from Uncle dying to Uncle being like, they stole my car. And Spider-Man.

Peter, with great power comes great responsibility. Where's my car? We're going to take the bus home. This is emasculating. Uncle Ben, it's all right. People catch the bus all the time. No. In fact, driving in New York City is.

I'm above it. Peter, I have one question. Dude, where is my car? You know that movie? Dude, where's my car? It hasn't come out yet, Peter. I've been riding it at home. Wait, maybe it has come out.

Inspired by this one event. You fucked up. I wish Sean William Scott was in Spider-Man. Me too. He would have suited that movie. Okay, so well then, yeah, actually the cleverer move probably would be to not shoot Uncle Ben, but move on to another car. Yeah, but did Uncle Ben, he's like, you can't get into my car,

then try to wrestle the gun or wrestle the guy? In my mind, yes, but did Uncle Ben say, you can't get into my car then try to wrestle the gun or wrestle the guy? In my mind, yes, but I can't remember. Is there also something where the fact that he shot Uncle Ben made Spider-Man, so maybe it was worth it?

Good point. Interesting, interesting, like, Maybe the guy who shot Uncle Ben's the real hero. Maybe Spider-Man should go and thank him. Because I wouldn't have become Spider-Man if he didn't shoot my guy.

So what if Uncle Ben had lived to a riper old age? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And died of natural causes that weren't a gunshot. He probably would not have said anything impactful to Peter Parker. He would have been like, Peter, you're a good kid. And then die. And then Peter's like, I'm going to keep being a wrestler. Is Spider-Man that good in the trilogy?

What do you mean? Does he do more good than bad? Or does he prevent more bad? Than he causes. Yeah. Well, let's not forget in Spider-Man 2, Doc Ocky is trying to make a son in New York. Yeah, so I guess he stops the total destruction of New York. I was going to say, New York plus maybe world?

Yeah, because he is directly responsible for the death of James Franco's character. That's true, yeah, yeah. Uncle Ben dies because of him. Yeah, yeah. Aunt May gets quite a fright. Harry Osborn gets got. Harry Osborn is James Franco. I'm sorry, you were right.

But also he kills the other Green Goblin. Norman dies because of him. Eddie. Eddie loses his job. Eddie gets fired but then dies. That's true, yeah. Kills Eddie Brock. There's a lot of blood on Spider-Man's hands.

But it's crime blood, so forgive me. Is he responsible for Doc Ock because the funding? Mary Jane falls off a lot of things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She doesn't die but she gets upset because he doesn't come to her plays. Bad boyfriend. Then kills her next boyfriend. Mary Jane, you deserve

battle. You do, MJ. Get out of there. The pizza that he delivers. Sloppy pizza. Sloppy pizza. What are you, fucked? That's what I would say if I opened a pizza. I would have looked at the a pizza. This is not... I would have looked at the pizzas and be like, what the fuck is wrong with you?

What the fuck? Did you just drive here, or did you fucking somersault your way to my apartment? Why is my pizza so cold? Did you hold it out the fucking car window? Why is it cold and also all over the place? Were you just fucking throwing it like a... Were you juggling with my pizza?

Why is there web on this one slice of pizza? Were you fucking a spider while you were delivering these pizzas? Did one guy hold this slice of pizza and then you flipped it out of his hand and out of his mouth and then serve it to me? It tastes like spider web. It tastes like spider web and some guy's breath. Yeah. I'm going to get a refund on this.

You understand? And I'm going to get you fired. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that poor guy's business. He had to fire a young, not even good worker. That would have caused him a bit of stress. Yeah, absolutely.

But then he saved the world. The son is really the only thing that's helping him. Once again, with Doc Ock, because his arm's getting all fucked up and controlling him. And that was caused by the first explosion. Was there funding pulled? Was there a reason? Yeah, Norman pulls the funding. Oh, no.

Not Norman. No, Osgob. Osgob pulls the funding. Does Spider-Man create Green Goblin? Oh, Spider-Man sort of. Because Spider-Man interrupts the thing where he's like. But also, would that have just exploded and ended the war?

No, I think Doc Ock just made the arms bad, basically. Like he fucked up the actual development of them. Anyway, let's move on to Green Goblin. Yes. Joe Chill's plan? Yeah. Not Joe Chill. Goon's plan?

Pretty good. Joe Chill's plan, solid. Wait outside the Mosk of Zorro. Joe Chill, yeah, yeah. Steal some pearls, shoot some people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then don't even steal the pearls properly because they go everywhere.

Yeah, yeah. You can't sell one pearl. Fuck up, Stealy Pearls. Well, he collects them. Well, no, he's got to run away, I guess. Bad plan. Okay, Double G Green Goblin.

Yep. GG. He, his plan, so first of all, This is the one you're most excited about. Yeah. First of all,

the Green Goblin is just trying to make a magic gas for the military. Yeah, to make people strong. It's a strong guy about. Yeah. First of all, the Green Goblin is just trying to make a magic gas for the military. Yeah. To make people strong. It's a strong guy gas. Yeah. And from memory, the board are kind of

fucking around in this. Thumbs up their asses. Yeah. And the board are like, we've had enough of Norman. We're going to fire him from Oscorp. Yeah, exactly.

We're kicking him out. And he's like, well, I got a brilliant plan. What if you were all skeletons? Can't fire me if you're skeletons. Oh, I don't know if I like that plan. I'm a were all skeletons? Can't find me if you're skeletons. I don't know if I like that plan. I'm a skeleton!

He goes in and he sucks up the strong guy gas. Yeah, he uses the strong guy gas on himself. And then he gets Goblin Madness, or has Goblin Madness genetically? I think it's both. It's exacerbated. It's like our famous comparison of maybe Hulk was always Hulk.

Well, the comic revealed that Hulk was always Hulk because he had a bad dad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Green Goblin, always Green Goblin. Goblin madness runs in his veins. Yeah. Well, actually, the MCU recently has touched on that because she, Hulk, and Hulk have similar DNA

that allows them to suck in gamma. They're probably doing a mutant thing. Yeah, yeah. Hulk's a mutant? That's crazy. Kind of like with the DNA thing because the whole thing with Ms. Marvel because her brother doesn't have the thing with Ms. Marvel, because her

brother doesn't have the thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's going to be one of these weird genetic things. It's like, oh, when you have mutants and you cross it with, say, an inhuman gas, or you have mutants and you cross them with a gamma thing. That's why some people turn into hulks and some people don't. Hence, Stan Lee, probably a mutant, and then he was a hulk. How sick would it be?

And if this was an episode of our sister show Based on speculation I would predict this But it's not, it's Plum in the Desert A watershed episode But maybe in many ways you're getting two episodes Of two different podcasts in one podcast I think I would predict that most of the MCU heroes Are going to be revealed to be mutants Captain America, the reason the Superdrews

Yeah, yeah, yeah Anyway, that's neither here nor there Green Goblin, mutant So his mutant ability, that's neither here nor there. Neither here nor there. No, Green Goblin, mutant. Mutant. So his mutant ability is that he's got goblin madness. And he can talk through paintings or something. And he gave it to his son. He gave it to his son.

He passed it on. And then he skeletonizes the board. Yeah. Rampages. Runs Oscorp, but also becomes that super soldier that he was trying to sell. Then he's, because he knows Peter Parker is a brilliant young boy. Yeah. And he's like, and he knows Spider-Man has made some technological advancements.

Yeah. And he's like, what if we work together? Yeah, we could rule this town or whatever. We could rule the city. Now, I always thought. They both wanted to be mayor. That they wanted to do a joint mayor situation. Because you hadn't seen the whole movie in a very long time.

Yeah, and I'd seen a clip where he's like, we can rule the city together, Spider-Man. And you'd be like, yeah, he wants to become mayor, and he's somewhat of a scientist himself. And then you two said, no, that can't be possibly true. And I was like, no, no, it is. And then we watched a clip of it. And I was like, oh, no, it isn't. Because we watched a clip of it. And I was like, oh, no, it isn't.

Because you want, yeah. So what is Green Goblin's plan? We want Peter to join this board. Goblin madness sort of means that it's not real. It's just a maniac. Well, no, but he specifically says, because when we watched the clip, he's like, we could do great things together.

That's true. What's he imagining? Well, he's imagining that him becoming Green Goblin was good. Yeah, okay. And that he can help other people, and if they don't help other people, everyone's gonna turn on them, which is what he sells to Spider-Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've seen the way the city treats me, they're gonna treat you like this too.

So he was imagining his plan, and let's imagine his plan worked. Yeah. His plan was him and Spider-Man terrorize New York? No, no, team up. And do great things together. What are those great things? I'm somewhat of a scientist myself. They are both scientists.

So technological advancement. Yes. Because they're capable of like. So Peter or Spider-Man in this case, because he just doesn't know he's Peter Parker. He figures it out later. He's like, well, you can create like spider webs and that's pretty cool. Peter Parker can create goblin madness. I can make goblin madness.

Goblin madness is organic. Fuck, I forgot. That's very funny. What did Peter Parker make in that film that was not organic? I don't think Peter Parker makes any technological advancements. Is that Peter Parker not clever? No, no, no. He's been working with-

Toby's Peter's dumb as fuck. No... He has an internship with Doc Ock, remember? He's very clever. He's a very clever boy. The reason he's at Oscorp and he gets bit by the spider is because he's so clever. He just doesn't invent anything. What does he invent? That's what I'm saying. Mary Jane's there, and she's an actress, not a scientist.

She's not academically gifted like Spider-Man is. What? Maybe she was. Was she still in high school at that point? Gwen Stacy is the clever one, I think. Yes. Is Tobey Maguire not that clever in these films?

No, Tobey Maguire is clever in this movie. And Doc Ock's like, you're my best student. Yeah, Doc Ock's like, I've read your paper on... But he gets controlled by arms. How clever is he? That's true. Being controlled by your own arms. If I split you into two, and it was just you and just your arms,

who do you think would win in a fight? You could still headbutt them and kick your arms, but your arms could grab you. They could strangle you. They could strangle my neck. Do you reckon your arms could climb you? That's scary to picture. Yeah, well, if you think about it, Adam's family rules.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's an arm? Adam's family does rule. Like, look. Yes. Adam's family rules. But, like, hands could strangle my neck. I can't.

What's an arm's weakness? Well, picking it up, whacking it to a wall. Oh, no, you can't. Yeah. You could stand on it. I have a neck. Dump on it. What do they have?

Veins? You're going to get beat up. The rest of you is going to get beat up by your hands. You're probably quicker than your arms, so you can run away from them. Well, yeah, but you've got no arms to balance, so running without arms is hard. You can run without arms. You can, but

arms are a vital... You don't want to trip over Because then the arms will get you And also you've got nothing to brace you for They'll spank you I'm so vulnerable to arms And arms have no weakness I can get choked, I can get spanked I can get punched

I can't get I can nook it You can nook it by your own arms Wet wheelied? Nah, I need my mouth for that. That's true. But one arm could hold your mouth open. Oh, no, it gave up.

The other arm. Oh, no. Watershed episode. Watershed episode. So, yeah, if you were split into two, your arms could beat up the rest of you. So are we saying that Peter Parker's not clever? No, no, no. I'm saying that Doc Ock being controlled

by his arms makes sense because if your arms are threatening you, you just have to cop it. And these are robot arms. These aren't even regular. Like, regular arms could kill Giles Hammett.

Yeah. That's what robot arms could do. Oh, no. Well, they can't wet William. They can't? Oh, that would be fucked up. The drill you're at. Yeah, it's wet William,

but the wet is my blood and brain juice. Blood Willie, blood Willy, Blood Willy. Blood Willy's a bad phrase. Okay, so do we think it's clever then? Green Goblin's plan to rule the city as tech billionaires. Green Goblin, I would say, is not really a clever plan, but it also is that- It's a very vague plan.

He's so chaotic and Goblin madness-y. There isn't really like what's his plan yeah yeah it's like step one everyone inhale this super juice uh-huh step two i'm gonna make some of the royals of new york i meant elites of new york into skeletons yeah but that so say yeah what i'm gonna kidnap mary jane and yeah but that no that's what he's that was his plan when he wanted to fuck over Peter. If Peter was like, we can work together and he's Spider-Man, he's like, alright. Let's do it. The plan becomes

spite very quickly. So he's like, alright, let's work together to do... And then Spider-Man's like, I'm 100% on board, Green Goblin. Let's now go in. You aim me and fire? I will happily make you a... I will build... Well- You aim me and fire, and I'll do it. I will happily make you a- I will build.

Well, it's me and you, because you're clever. Yes. Because when he's looking at just Spider-Man, he's like, you're a guy. I can tell you're just a fucking guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you've clearly sorted some fucking thing out, which makes you clever. I've done this to me, so I'm a different version of you. Clearly me and you could work together to make a new guy.

The same plan that Lizard has later, except way less fucked up. He's like, we'll make everybody super powerful. Or we can have the ability to do that, we could get very rich and very powerful. Okay. So we monetize super soldiers. Basically. It's like what he

was doing before. He was like, oh, there's gases for the military. Everyone's too scared of the gas. But now it's like, me and you could work together to make better gas, and we're proof that it works. Okay. That's not the worst plan. But then that flips very quickly. Yeah, we know it flips very quickly. But that's what Spider-Man said, no.

But as that plan, it's not a bad plan. It's better than shoot the guy for the car plan when you haven't really done anything that would really. Well, I think it's a bad plan because step one is skeletonize your board. Yeah. If he hadn't done that and he didn't have goblin madness, fine plan. If the green goblin had just sold the goblin gas. Yeah. Brilliant plan.

You buy a thing of goblin gas, huff it down. You're now a superpower. You're Superman. You've got a super strength or whatever. I like that you made the gesture for drinking when you said gas and huff. Well, I imagine it had a little baby bottle on it. I put that in my mouth

and I press a little release and I go kind of like doing a nang, I guess. Goblin nangs. I don't know what those are. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I neither do our listeners. Right, listeners? An inhaler! I don't know what those are I need to know how to listen Right listeners? An inhaler Yeah an inhaler Yeah yeah yeah

Just like Oh I have goblin madness Oh no Yeah It's not genetic so Yeah yeah yeah No you're not gonna get goblin I think most people

If they got goblin gassed Would just turn out fine Yeah And he absolutely Fox up Peter Potter Like Spider-Man real bad I think most people, if they got Goblingassed, would just turn out fine. And he absolutely fucks up Spider-Man real bad in those fights. So he's tough. It's also pretty funny that he's like Spider-Man, and you can make people Spider-Man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Spider-Man's like, oh, no, I just got bit by a spider.

You can track down that spider, maybe use some Spider-Man blood and if they work together. That's true. Because if Green Goblin's like, well, we want to make more of you, so let's study your blood. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They could probably make. They could do some. Wouldn't New York City full of Spider-Man or the military full of

Spider-Man and goblins be good? Military, scary. I guess it would be America and even more of a superpower. Yeah, yeah. And terrifying. Because everyone's Spider-Man. Everyone's incredibly strong, thwipping Spider-Man. Yeah.

Okay. Well, the military at this point is deployed in Iraq, which doesn't have a lot to thwip on. No, that's true. But it doesn't. But you can make your own spider web. And I guess you would just, yeah. So you can leap and you got spider sense. It's cool to imagine in this scenario, Green Goblin.

Was he still going to dress like a goblin? Well, no, because that suit is part of the military. Would he have given Spider-Man a goblin suit? Wait, the military were like, this is a good costume? We're going to dress up guys like this? The military are like, you know what? The American army are going to dress up guys like this? The military are like, you know what? The American army are going to be like, you know what's the best thing? Goblins.

Imagine that, George Bush's goblin army. Mission accomplished. He probably would have painted them gold or sandy colors. Yeah, they would have been like a camo green goblin, I suppose. Or like red, white, and blue. Real patriotic. Patriot goblin. No, sure, he did like, you know, red, white, and blue. Yeah. Real patriotic. Patriot goblin. No, sure, he did the goblin mask, right?

That was all goblin. It's all part of the thing. It's part of the suit. Because it's like an air suit for the glider, because the glider is also a military prototype. And then we thought the military are like gliders. That's the future. We need gliders so we don't have to walk in the hot sand. But also, I think they're quiet.

And the goblin mask is scary. I mean, it's something. You know, if somebody came into my base and had a goblin mask and I was like, I'm being full of the time. Do you think? So this kept going, right? And then it's the point where like, we've invented these gliders. We did this kind of stuff called the scary suits.

And like, oh yeah, but we also have drones now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think Osborne would have been like, oh. Ah. That's the downfall. That's the downfall of Parker and Osborne Industries or whatever. Do you think, though, if you march down,

because I know, especially at this point in America, it would have been hard for anyone to have this thought. Yeah. But when you're marching an army of goblins down the street, do you think anyone would be like, huh? Do you think we may be all the bad guys? We may have gone too far, I think, actually.

We have an army of goblin men. Yeah, looking at our goblin man army. That's not really something the good guys have. The good guys don't have a goblin army. If I can think of one. Who else had a? There's a goblin king from Labyrinth. He had a goblin army. He stole a baby.

Was that good? He was David Bowie. David Bowie is good. In America, I don't think we really care that much about David Bowie. Yeah, it's tricky. It's also- The bombs that Green Goblin throws. Yeah, the pumpkin bomb thing.

Why don't we call them pumpkin bombs? Does he? No. They're just orange grenades. Orange grenades that skulls nice folk. Cool, cool, cool. I was just going to say that the theming is weird. It's very Halloween themed, if that was intentionally.

It's a prototype, so it could just be a different goblins. Yeah, okay. All right. That's fine. That's fine. I like the prototype when it comes back and the military are like, sorry, why are they goblins? Why are they goblins?

Why are these bombs pumpkins? You know, goblins and pumpkins. Goblins eat pumpkins. Goblins aren't real. No, goblins eat pumpkins. No, I'm actually pretty sure goblins aren't real and they eat pumpkins. But then if you eat the pumpkins, why are you throwing the pumpkins? Well, no, it's just a theme.

It's just a theme because we had the goblins, like, suit. So we were like, what are we going to make them? Because, you know, goblins love to glide. Goblins are obviously a flying critter, and then they eat pumpkins. So then we figured. You know how human beings like sandwiches? Yes. We don't make grenades.

We don't model the armor after a human being. But body armor is, actually. I suppose in a way. Yeah, but the thing is, well, we're not lobbing a sandwich because it's triangular or square. It's hard to. So really, we're lobbing like a sandwich because it's triangular or square. It's hard to. So really, we're lobbing like an apple, you could argue. Well, people eat pumpkins too, so.

And if you look at Grenade, you could argue. If you paint that Grenade red or green, an apple. It could be. Well, okay. Yeah, all right. The military. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sure, sure.

Sure, whatever, man. You're right. You actually are right on this one. Goblins eat pumpkins. Yeah, yeah. Goblins eat pumpkins Sure, sure. Sure, whatever, man. You're right. You actually are right on this one. Goblins eat pumpkins. Yes. Goblins eat pumpkins. And we're not renewing your contract. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It makes perfect sense for a pumpkin to be thrown as a weapon because goblins eat pumpkins. Yeah, of course. Thank you. Thank you very much for your time. You've not wasted our time. We're not going forward with this prototype. It turns people into skeletons, though. Come on.

Yeah, a grenade shreds people. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, this one turns them into skeletons though. Come on. Yeah, a grenade shreds people. Yeah, this one turns them into skeletons. That's good. That's no better for us. What do you mean? In fact, anything turning them into skeletons is probably worse. Why? Because a frag grenade, for instance, can damage

buildings and things. Yeah, yeah. Your grenade just turns people into skeletons. Yeah, that's good. Pretty good. Yeah, because you don't want just turns people into skeletons. Yeah, it's good. Pretty good. Yeah, because you don't want to damage the building. Yeah, yeah. Why would you want to damage the building? Okay, so if I... Probably could throw it in the tank.

I guess. Yeah. You could turn the people inside the tank. See? Coming around. And then you've got a tank you can use. Yeah. A free tank.

A free tank full of bones. Okay. Let's move on to Dark Ark the Green Goblin's plan is confusing and yeah depends what it is it changes

Goblin Madness really fucks with his plan yeah yeah yeah it could be a fine plan but he's got Goblin Madness yeah but it is okay well I guess because we're going to be

doing rankings we should probably decide in Spider-Man 1 the guy who shoots Uncle Ben or Green Goblin who's cleverer. The guy who shoots Uncle Ben. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was stealing from shady people and he just wanted a getaway car.

I would also say that he- If Uncle Ben hadn't have stopped, he would have gotten the car, kept going, and Uncle Ben would have just been like a carless loser but got it back through insurance. Yeah, exactly. I was about to make the bold claim. Like, well, fucking idiot. At least he didn't die like Green Goblin no he does die Spider-Man murders Spider-Man murders him then goes to Art May

and is like I killed him and Art May is like what? Peter no he's like what do you mean? I thought you'd be so happy Peter our man's dead two men are dead now you would think that at this point in my career as Spider-Man I'd have learned this lesson but I guess not awesome movie okay Spider-Man, I'd have learned this lesson, but I guess not.

Awesome movie. Okay. Spider-Man 2. Yes. Now, because I said Green Goblin for Spider-Man 1, but damn it had extra villains I hadn't realized. Are there extra villains in Spider-Man 2? Well, you've got the arms of Doc Ock. Okay.

And Doc Ock himself. Doc Ock, who's being controlled by the arms. So the arms are really the bad guy. Yeah. Doc Ock's just And Doc Ock, who's being controlled by the arms. So the arms are really the bad guy. Yeah. Doc Ock's just meat. Because, yeah, because Doc Ock, once he realized what's going on, the inhibitor chip comes back or he has control and he realizes what's going on. He stops. He shuts down.

So the arms want to destroy New York using the brain of Doc Ock. Okay. Yeah, arms are powerful. Arms are one of the most powerful limbs a person has. Yeah. So they're frightened of arms. a person has. Yeah. So the arms plan. Yeah. Because do the arms, are they like?

They want to build the sun because it's limitless energy, which would then make the arms stronger. Because the arms, I think, are built using the smaller version of the sun. Yes, that's true. Okay, so the arms want more power. So what, the arms want like sentience? The arms have sentience. But they've got a battery life, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or is this their eternal life? Is this their fountain of eternal life or whatever? I suppose. Also, does Doc Ock have octopus madness? He kind of does. No, he's got arm madness. He's got arm madness.

Yeah, because it's kind of, because I never understood, or I can't remember, if it's that the arms want this or if the arms activate a piece of doc ox bright because because it's basically like what's to stop the arms from controlling you and he's like this chip right here this one exposed chip that oh no the sun it's so funny they're like what's the stuff the arms controlling you and he's like i've got to figure it out no no because they're robots yeah and they've got their own ai yeah so then that breaks. They immediately get AI madness.

Also, there is another villain in this, the bank. The bank. Joel McHale. Yeah, their plan, take Aunt May's house. Brilliant plan. It works. She doesn't know what she's doing. What?

No, like Aunt May's, you know, in that scene, in the interview with the bank, she's kind of doddering around. She doesn't know what she's doing. She's an easy mark, I guess. She's just like, please don't take my house. Yeah. Then they take her house. John McHale takes her house.

She kicks John McHale accidentally. Yeah. Okay, so consequence, get kicked by an old lady. But then, no, unrelated. But that is also the same bank that Doc Ock robs. Yeah, that's true, but that's... Yeah, unrelated. Do they get Aunt May's house in the end? No.

How come? Why not? Because that'll help us determine whether or not it's a good plan to try and take Aunt May's house. I guess it's a bad plan because Aunt May's nephew is Spider-Man. Yeah, but Spider-Man, what can he do? Well, yeah, I guess just being... I'm a bank. All I care about is money.

Yeah, Spider-Man having web shooters does not stop you from being able to take an old woman's house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, fair enough. For cool, for cool. Like, what, is Spider-Man going to buy me out and make changes? No, because he's poor as shit. And he's also not going to come and physically threaten me because he's a good guy. And also, once again, I'm a bank.

Yeah. What's he going to do, punch my walls? I rebuild them. Yeah, even if he kills Joel McHale, also, once again, I'm a bank. What's he going to do? Punch my walls? I rebuild them. Yeah, even if he kills Joel McHale, nothing bad's going to happen to the bank. Joel McHale is a cog in a machine. It's the bank. That's true about Joel McHale.

What about another villain possibly in this to add to the roster? J. Jonah Jameson. Well, there's also another villain that's an actual villain in this movie. Because this is also the birth of New Goblin. New Goblin. And Harry tries to kill Peter at one point. He succeeds and kills Peter.

Does he try and kill him in this film? Yeah. He unmasks him and he's got a dagger. And he's like, my painting talk, my dad talk to me. He gets Goblin Madness at the end. So Harry's plan, kill the man who killed his dad. With a knife. With a knife.

With a knife. Pretty good plan. Which is his best friend. But he doesn't know it's his best friend until he unmasks him. But that's not, I mean- Imagine if he did not mask him. Imagine if he was just like, Spider-Man killed him. Throws him off the building or whatever.

Doesn't ever unmask him. Where's Peter? How is it Peter in a while? He must be sick with gastro or something. That gastro's still getting him real bad. It's been two years, Harry. Why is that killing

that's like Spider-Man cured my goblin madness? Because what happens once he kills Spider-Man? He's got his goblin madness and he's like and then what?

Then he, well... Then he probably tries to do his dad's plan of goblin madness has infected Harry, too. Once again, you're going to use your Goblin Madness to... Well, he'd have to... Your own Oscorp to then... It would almost make more sense if the Green Goblin did want to become mayor.

Yeah, to be honest, yes. Well, because, yeah, Harry becomes the head of his dad's company, kills Spider-Man. Yeah. And... Uses Oscorp to... Continue... And here's a great. And uses Oscorp to continue. And here's a great.

And because Oscorp makes. Science. Dangerous expirators that bite people and give them spider powers and gas to give to. They have a lot of scientists walking around their facilities. Because we get government contracts to work on this too. Experimental weapons? Are we part of why Sandman is Sandman as well? No, that just seemed like a separate thing that was happening.

That was just something else going on. Is the military also giving contracts to other places? I don't even know if that was a military thing or just a cool thing that happened. I don't know what they were doing in that sand vortex. I guess we'll get to that at some point. Yeah. and afraid. Fair enough. Elves suck shit and wizards blow chunks. Well, there's an alternative. You can sign up to the Bad Brain Boys collection on Apple Podcasts and receive

a whole dirty bunch of bonus content from your three favorite fuckheads without all that fantasy nerd shit getting in the way. So here's what you're going to do. You're going to head to apple.co forward slash plumbing the death star right now, sign the fuck up, and show your support for the only boys in the world you love yeah i don't know what harry look but harry's plan in the movie

the movie is to stab spider-man yes and that's a fine plan yeah from beginning to end stabbing spider-man for revenge i'm going to get no i'm not to do it. I'm going to get one of my goons or pay someone, i.e. Doc Ock, to get me Spider-Man. Yeah. And he does. Yeah. Perfect plan.

Works out. Great plan. The flaw to his plan was unmasking Spider-Man. Stab first, unmask later. Be like, oh no,

I killed my friend, but that's all right. He killed my dad. Yeah. Killed my dad. Yeah. An eye for an eye, but unfortunately,

both of the eyes were mine. Yeah. Now I'm blind. Now I have to avenge my friend's death. I stab myself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Perfect. Mary Jane, very upset.

Yeah, yeah, no friends anymore. Lost current boyfriend and ex-boyfriend. Still has fiancé. Who goes to space loses him too. Yeah, that's right. What happens in space? Does he die? No, no, no.

He just goes to space. You spend some time upset. Okay. Now space? Does he die? No, no, no. He just goes to space. You spend some time up there. Now in the comics, he'd become a werewolf. He also becomes Venom at some point. But in this one, he just goes to space. And J. Jonah Jameson's like, I love my son. I've got an astronaut son, and he gives him a little smooch on his forehead.

Good son. Great son. That's like, surely Surely What can your son do That's better than going to space Oh nothing Cue a cancer That's one Probably equal

Whoa No because people Have gone to space No one's cured cancer Yeah Cue a cancer number one Yeah Gold in the Olympics

In some Capacity Gold in the Olympics Better or There's more gold medals than there are people that have gone to space. Depends on what he's getting gold for. What's he getting gold for? Boxing. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just as good.

I was going to say like the 100 meter sprint. Still pretty good. Javelin. Getting worse. Shot put. Hammer toss. Getting good again. Toss that hammer, boy! Daddy loves you! What about, is Discus

worse than Shotput? Yes. Shotput's throwing a big rock. What about being in, say, for us, like an AFL Grand Final winning? It's part of that team. I don't know if it's space good. It's not space good. Okay, what about Norm Smith

medalist, which is the best player in the grand final? Kicks a winning goal as well. It's good. It's not going to space. Going to space is huge. Because 22 players win the grand final every year. Yeah, exactly. People have been to space for a while. I think.

No one's been to the moon, I'm afraid. Yeah, we don't know what's happening up there. The station. Yeah, the International Space Station. Aren't the Russians breaking off and making their own no one's been to the moon for ages yeah we don't know what's happening up there the station yeah the international space station yeah I think aren't the Russians like breaking off

making their own station as well maybe classic the stations may crash into each other and that's a scary thing in the future

I've decided that could happen because they could fuck up like in that film with Sandy Bullock yeah yeah gravity yeah

I think there's a lot of space so I think they'll be alright but yeah there's a chance both space stations will be orbiting earth yeah but there's so much already currently orbiting earth there is there's a lot of space so I think they'll be alright but yeah there's a chance both space stations will be orbiting Earth yeah but there's so much already currently orbiting Earth there's a lot of garbage up there

so much garbage you have no idea how much garbage is there Harry's plan pretty good he gets very close he's one stab away although Spider-Man could take a stab so maybe not because he'd stab absolutely. Although Spider-Man could take a stab.

So maybe not. Because he'd stab Spider-Man, Spider-Man gets up. Oh, yeah, true. He just snaps Harry's neck. No, no, no, no. I used my rubber knife. Wait a minute. No, he'd stab him.

The knife would go in. It's just that Spider-Man can body it better than a... And then... Hands around Harry's throat. No, not a... Just out of gut reaction. And he's so strong. So you think

if you stabbed an unconscious Spider-Man he would wake up and snap your neck? I think he would. He'd punch you, but hard. He wouldn't hold back. Yeah. That's why he's one of the more stronger.

I think it would kill me. I think it would outright kill me. It'd be like getting punched with a Mack truck. Yeah, yeah, exactly. With the size of a fist, that much force, he's dead. He's dead. He's punched a fucking hole out of me. Like when he punches Sandman.

Yeah, exactly. Except there's flesh and blood. His arm is through my belly. I'm like, aw. I knew arms were going to kill me one day. So, what about me? They are dangerous. Harry's plan's the best plan. It's very straightforward. I can

respect it. Yep. Doesn't execute it properly. And his plan definitely gets worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in Spider-Man 2, good plan. Yeah. Hire a psycho? Yes. In blackmail? Well, technically you're hiring an arms. Yeah, yeah. Hire a psycho? Yeah. In blackmail? Well, technically you're hiring an arms. Yeah, yeah. Hire an arms. Hire arms. Give arms what they

want. You get what you want. Yeah. Smart. So Harry, is Harry smarter than Doc Ock? Oh, sorry. Is Doc Ock smarter than the guy who killed Uncle Ben? No. I still think the guy who killed Uncle Ben's got the best plan. You think he's better than Harry's plan? He was

robbing some fuckers and he got a getaway car. He dies as a So does Harry. Once again, if his plan was successful. Actually, I guess this guy's plan was successful until he got killed. And also Harry, to execute his plan, pays Doc Ock with

that mineral or whatever that Doc Ock wants, which if Spider-Man didn't step in because he'd been stabbed, would have destroyed Earth. Okay, guy who killed Uncle Ben, best plan. Harry's second plan, couldn't have possibly known what the consequences of his plan was. I mean, you are dealing with a madman who's controlled by arms, so it's risky and that's why it's not the best plan. Then you got Doc Ock next?

Or Green Goblin? Doc Ock's arms plan is to make a second sun. To get more power. Unlimited energy. So that their battery won't run out. It's just for energy across the board though. They would use that energy to make

lots of things. More arms. Maybe some legs. So if, I guess, the sun exploded, would arms survive? No. No. Because arms drown, which is funny. Yeah, that's like being, like, if you have a nuclear-powered sub, and you're like, if the nuke exploded,

it's because the sub's powered by nuclear power. I don't know what the arms were made of. Because the arms were designed to withhold and control and contain said sun. So I don't know if they could because the arms were designed to withhold and control and contain said sun. I don't know. That's actually, yeah. But nevertheless, it's a stupid plan

because they do not if they were successful. And this is the thing, if they were successful then they would contain the sun and they would live forever as arms. Yeah.

So it's not the worst plan. And then they'd be like attached to a skeleton Doc Ock. Yeah. So Doc Ock's plan better than Green Goblin's plan. He has the worst plan so far. And then finally the last villain of Spider-Man 2, one we touched on earlier, the bank's plan.

Where's the bank? Probably the top. Take Aunt May's house. Take Aunt May's house. But they don't succeed. If they were to succeed, that's the thing. That's their plan. As a plan.

Then they get more money because she's offered it. They were sold off their house and you've put an old lady and her nephew out of a house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. As a bank, you like that. Yeah, as a bank, that's funny for you. You love being a piece of shit as a bank. You've got to quote her to make as many old ladies homeless as possible. Yes!

So we're talking bank, goon, Harry Osborn, Dr. Octopus, Green Goblin. Yes. Okay. J. Jonah Jameson. Do we include him here? Let's talk about him in three. I don't know if he's necessarily a villain. He's not a villain in any of them.

Well, he's a villain to Spider-Man. Not really. Spider-Man works for him. Yeah, I suppose. Spider-Man's just like, oh, that's annoying. Okay. He's a nuisance. We won't consider him a villain.

He's a nuisance, not a villain. Okay. His actions don't actively harm Spider-Man's just like, ah, that's annoying. Okay, he's a nuisance. We won't consider him a villain. Yeah, he's a nuisance, not a villain. Okay. His actions don't actively harm Spider-Man, and when he is confronted about Spider-Man, he's like, hmm. He's alright. Isn't? Yeah, right.

That happens, right? Yeah. There's a scene where I think Doc Ock's like, I need Peter Parker, and he's like, I ain't giving him to you. I think he still hates Spider-Man. Yeah, good point. Yeah.

And I mean, his villainizing of Spider-Man causes Spider-Man a lot of problems. Oh, no point. Yeah. And I mean, his villainizing of Spider-Man causes Spider-Man a lot of problems. Oh, no, not really. It doesn't. Because New York still comes...

Spider-Man kisses Gwen Stacy at that... Oh, yes. Gwen Stacy, yeah. In Spider-Man 3, he smooches her. You fucking root rat, Spider-Man.

And then he's like, oh, no, it was just to the cameras, Mary Jane. He's like, what, you're kissing her for the... What are you talking about? Mary Jane is an actress, though. Yeah, that's true.

She probably kisses on stage. Yeah, but she kisses people. It's like a film. Spider-Man kissed that woman. Spider-Man was doing it because he's like, the people love it when I kiss women. Oh, Mary Jane, you've got to understand, it's very important for the Spider-Man image that people know that Spider-Man fucks. Yeah, Spider-Man is single, too. Yeah, he fucks, he's single single and he does this kiss with everyone.

Yeah, yeah. Because it's also the upside down Mary Jane. This is his famous kiss, Mary Jane. He's flustered. He's just like, yeah, guy slipping upside down, kissing everyone. The key for New York to remain protected, MJ, people need to imagine they could kiss me and date Spider-Man. And now I guess I have to kiss everyone I save.

This is on your head. I'm gonna go get some lip balm. This is gonna get tricky. One of the villains in this is Peter Parker. Symbiote Peter Parker. Is that Peter Parker or is it Symbiote? Is this like Arms again?

No, because Symbiote Let's talk about the Symbiote's playing because like Arms again? Yeah, no, because symbiote so let's talk about the symbiote's plan because it's the most simple. Be on a guy. And it's a great plan. Great plan, works pretty well. Loves being on a guy. Once the symbiote is on a guy

the plan has one step. Be on guy. Is that a guy I can be on? Yes. I'm on him. I'm awesome. No longer thinking about it. Succeeds. Succeeds in the plan twice, then dies. But that's okay because every villain except the bank dies. And in a world where it went perfectly for the symbiote, he would just be on the guy.

He'd be loving it. He'd be on the perfect person, wherever that might be. So symbiote plan, great. Maybe even better than the banks. We don't know. It's a one-step plan, which is pretty good. Banks is two. And symbiote plan, great. Yeah. Maybe even better than the Banks. We don't know. It's a one-step plan, which is pretty good. Banks is two. And Symbiote succeeds.

The problem with, say, what the Symbiote happens is the people that he gloms on to. So the villains aren't... It's not the Symbiote. The villain is Spider-Man and Eddie Brock. Yeah. Spider-Man's plan is go full dirtbag. To be a cool guy. Yeah.

Now, he's not... Yeah. To what a nerd thinks is a cool guy. Yeah. Now he's not Yeah, to what a nerd thinks is a cool guy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He tries to be cool. He gets confident. He's rude to that girl that makes some cookies. Well, he thinks what I wouldn't argue this is confident.

It's what he thinks confidence is. Horny? He gets horny on me? What's his plan there? His plan is just to hit his girlfriend. Smooch. Rack shit and fuck stuff up. Dance, smooch. He does do all of that, but is that his plan,

though? Or is that just a thing that's happening? His plan is to become a cool guy. Yeah, his plan is to become a cool guy, but it is a bad plan because it hurts all of his relations. And he doesn't know what a cool guy is. He fucks it up. Okay, so yeah, not good. Peter Parker, terrible plan.

Definitely worse than Symbiote by itself. So if he was successful he becomes a cool guy but he's still a sack of shit. Well, that's the thing. His version of a cool guy is a dooms to fail plan. No matter what, he's going to hurt the people around him and it's not going to work out. So, bad plan. Bad plan. Eddie Brock

Eddie Brock prays to Spider-Man to get killed. Eddie Brock, I guess got to kill Spider-Man. Probably one of the worst plans. The worst plans ever. Original plan, frame, Spider-Man for murders.

Yeah, that's true. So basically, you know, learn a bit of Photoshop. That's not a bad plan. Photoshop some Spider-Man, besmirch Spider-Man's good name. Yeah, yeah, yeah. In fact, that's probably a plan on previous plumbings we've tried to make work. We've definitely done. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I think it's a good plan. Besmirch Spider-Man's name. Yeah. Which is great because you're working for J. Jonah Jameson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you're getting sweet money. And J. Jonah Jameson likes you way more than he likes Spider-Man's name. Yeah. Which is great because you're working for Jameson. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you get your sweet money. And Jameson likes you way more than he likes Spider-Man. All you're doing is getting photos of someone else not crediting him.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's plagiarizing a bit. Yeah. Besmirch Spider-Man and then, when exposed, pray to God to kill Spider-Man. So his initial plan was to besmirch Spider-Man? Great. Because imagine if Spider-Man hadn't become Dirtbag Spider-Man. Yeah.

He'd have just probably cried in his car. And he would have copped it. He would be like, He stole my pieces. People would be like, Why do you want to work for the Bugle? It's a rag. Yeah.

So pretty good plan. But then, goes wrong. Praise to God. Bad plan. Yeah. Then fights Spider-Man as Venom. Well, that's the symbiote. So if we're doing symbiote Peter Parker as a villain,

I guess we go Eddie Brock and then symbiote Eddie Brock. Yeah, yeah. Eat Spider-Man? Pretty good plan. See, I like the symbiote's plan. They're all very simple and straightforward. Be on a guy, eat Spider-Man. Eat Spider-Man, don't go near fires,

and don't go near loud noises. The thing about eating Spider-Man as't go near fires and don't go near loud noises the thing about eating Spider-Man as well it's worth remembering is that like it actually doesn't have to be specifically Spider-Man the plan is

eat a guy it's beyond a guy and eat a guy it's just that Eddie Brock's like well if you're gonna eat anyone Simbi and Eddie Brock is Eddie Brock and Eddie Brock hates

Peter Parker he just wants to kill he's like God give me these powers to kill Spider-Man and Simbi is like I'll eat fucking whoever dude I don't care Spider-Man great looks delicious the last's like, I'll eat fucking whoever, dude. I don't care. Spider-Man, great, looks delicious.

The last guy I was on wouldn't let me eat a single fuck. You want me to eat one guy? All right, but if I eat this one guy, maybe we eat other guys. Great start. Great start. I'll eat this guy. I know what's on the menu. Solid plan.

Symbia's plan's still great. Symbia's plan, be on a guy, eat a guy. Eddie Brock's plan, besmirch Spider-Man, kill Spider-Man. Symbiote Eddie Brock's plan, kill Spider-Man. Eat Spider-Man. And then we've got New Goblin, kill Spider-Man. Kill Spider-Man again. Worst plan because this time he knows who he is, so he knows it's tricky.

And also he tries to meet Spider-Man at the same level. Something that Spider-Man has been doing for movies now and New Goblin has not tried yet New Goblin's Glide and also Get Goblin Madness

is the step one once again Get Goblin Madness really puts a spanner in the goblin's way and he gets hit in the head and forgets yeah he gets amnesia

in that movie that's so funny he gets hit in the head with a metal ball and then he dies anyway yeah yeah exactly but he becomes good in the end yeah team up with, and then he dies anyway. Yeah, exactly. But he becomes good in the end. Yeah, team up with Spider-Man and die is the last step of that plan.

Bad plan. Bad plan. Sandman. Sandman. All right. Rob, wrestling rink. Uh-huh. It's also worth noting we keep saying Clint Marco.

It's Flint Marco. It is Flint Marco. Fuck, damn. Okay. Rob, wrestling rink. Flea. Yep. I like how we keep saying Wrestling Rink as well

That's good I don't think we've said Wrestling Rink ever I don't think we've said Wrestling Ring Me and Zabit have been saying Rink this whole episode Pay attention I've not been listening, I guess every time you said Wrestling Because I just kept saying Wrestling Association Robber, Underground, Wrestling Association

Great plan Flea into a car. Stop your friend from killing a guy. Fail. Yeah, yeah. But that's not your fault. Oh, no, no, no. Wait, don't you stand there with a thumb up your...

Yeah, you stand there with thumb up your ass being like, oh, no. You try and talk your way into the... Don't you have a crack at stealing the car first? Yeah, it doesn't work. Whatever. And then you stand there, you're like, oh, this isn't going to work. Then you put the thumb up your ass. And then your mate shoots that old man. You're like, huh, this isn't going to work. Then you put the thumb up your ass. And then your mate shoots that old man.

You're like, ah, fuck. Then you go to jail? No, you run from the cops. You run from the cops. You hide in that house that your friend is about to get thrown out of by Spider-Man. Yeah. Then you must go to jail because he isn't running. You either do go to jail or you get sandmanned.

Yeah. You get sandmanned hiding from the cops. That's why. Yeah, because he's running from the police. Because he's broken out of jail. Okay, so he does go to jail. Yeah. He gets sandmanned hiding from the cops. That's why. Yeah. Because he's running from the police. Because he's broken out of jail. Okay. So he does go to jail. Yeah.

He's jail at the start. Yeah. Breaks out of jail. Then the robbery happens. It's crazy they had that sandman facility, right? Oh, no. He does the robbery after breaking out of jail. Okay.

Never mind. I was like, right next to the prison? Really? Fall in the sand thing. Become made of sand. Take ages to become a guy after that. Rob a bank as sand. Yep.

Or an armored truck. Pretty clever. Yep. Oh, yeah, because all your plan now is get money to spend on daughter's medical bills. Yeah, be sand. Be sand. And then also get money to stop being sand. Yeah, that's true.

You want to stop being sand and give money to kid. That's pretty clever. sand. Yeah, that's true. You want to stop being sand and give money to the kid. That's pretty cool. I mean, like, look, as a goal, that's a good goal, but he's made of sand. He's got better options. Yeah, that's very true, actually. He kind of goes about it in a slack way.

Either rob bank, you know, or rob a car, which is, again, both of them are like, that's just cash. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. There's better ways to go about this. If you're sand, you can just get into a bank. You can get into fucking anything. Sand can be anywhere. Sand can be anywhere.

It gets in places. What's the best thing to rob if not a bank? Yeah. Because if you're sand, you can get away with it. Well, you don't rob it, right? Yeah. You don't have to rob something. How will you make your money as sand, man?

Well, I mean, you could always try and, like, you are a medical marvel, right? I bet you $1 million I'm made of sand. Well, you could kind of be like, you are a medical marvel, right? I bet you one million dollars, I'm made of sand. Well, you could kind of be like, hey. Somebody gives me that bat, I'm like, you are definitely made of sand. I'm not taking it. Like, you go to the place that is, like, maybe treating your daughter or whatever and I'm like, look, if you don't treat my daughter, I will

turn this machine into sand. I will become sand and get into your very expensive machine. Okay. So, blackmailing a hospital. Shake down. Okay. So blackmailing a hospital. Shake down a hospital. Racketeer a hospital. Which is better than robbing a bank where they definitely have money. You might be able to be like, I was turned into sand this way.

And not only am I physically reconstituted as a human being, though it did require some effort, I also can fly around as sand. Maybe if there's someone out there, like you could, like if you're really sick, maybe you need to get better, you get better as sand. Turn some people into sand?

If you're dying of cancer and you go in the Sandman machine. Yeah. When you're sand again. Can you get paid to be experimented on? Yeah. Because if I'm like, look, hi. Medical studies or whatever.

I am sand. Pay me a lot of money. You can do whatever you want as long as my daughter gets some treatment. Are you going to get? Yeah, but he's also on the run from the cops, so you can't advertise yourself because then you get arrested. Hi, I'm sand. I'm made of sand. I'm sand.

Give me my. I know you want to arrest me. But right now, I'm sand. I'm made of sand. I'm sand. Give me my... I know you want to arrest me. But right now, I'm currently sand. Good luck trying to arrest me. Can we come to a deal? Maybe. I don't know. Maybe we'll be back to...

Oh, they could just put you in a plastic container and you can't get out. I can make sharp sand thing and poke it through. You can make sharp sand. Yeah. Maybe go to a lawyer first. It sounds... I don't know. I think his plan's pretty good.

Robin Armand truck. But how do you get the money to your family? Yeah. Big sack. You need to, no, yes, great. But you can't just go to the hospital and slam a Sandy sack. Exactly. That's what I mean.

Fix my kid. Yeah. Yeah. So you got to think of some more legitimate. Okay. So maybe it is a pretty bad plan. Does he actually get any money to his family at any point in that movie? Okay, so maybe it is a pretty bad plan.

Does he actually get any money to his family at any point in that movie? He tries to when he robs the bank originally, and then his wife's like, how dare you? Not the bank, the wrestling. He robs the wrestling to quote you, rink. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Doesn't he go, because his wife's like. No, I mean after he's sand.

Yeah, he still, yes. Because he robs that armored truck. Yeah, but where does he put the money? I don't know. I'm just basically... Yeah, he definitely doesn't just rock up at his daughter's house with a big sack of money with a dollar sign on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's what I mean. It's kind of like, look, yeah, okay, you rob an armoured truck.

You have all this money. Now what, dickhead? Yeah, kind of what you... You're going to go to, like, you know, put this into a legitimate business and launder that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're going to go full Breaking Bad, not start making meth. But, like, I mean, you've got to get the money through illegal means. Yeah.

And then buy a car wash or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. Like a nail salon. Yeah. So maybe his plan is bad. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. All right. Robbing a bank is kind of like, okay, and now what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got cash. Good. And now what? What are you going to do with it?

How are you going to fix your daughter? Yeah. You're better off. Hey, I'm a, like, okay, and now what? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've got cash, good, and now what? What are you going to do with it? How are you going to fix your daughter? Yeah, you're better off... Hey, I am sand. Hire me as a bodyguard. Hi, I'm sand. I'm sand. Yeah, it's better to go on TV. Hi, I'm sand. Hi. How you doing? Do you need sand? This is fucked up. I'm sand.

I'll let you take a photo with me of me. I'm sand. What can sand do to earn money? Yeah, I'm like, could you go into like a construction like building? I don't know, because you are the sand Yeah, but you can control sand as well Okay, you could make fake beaches But they use sand in a lot of

construction material, right? But then if you get wet you turn into bad sand, remember? Yeah, but in a controlled environment where you're using sand in some sort of But then if you get wet, you turn into bad sand. Remember? Yeah. But in a controlled environment where you're using sand in some sort of wetness to kind of like make a kind of like, you know, I guess a mediterranean. Like a concrete. I don't know if being sand is going to help with construction. It would definitely help with something.

It would help, yeah. It would help with explosives. Sand is in TNT, I believe. But like, yeah, if you're making, you know, like a mortar, that kind of stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It kind of, you know, helps. But then you're making you know like a mortar that kind of stuff yeah yeah yeah then you're putting your body into a building no but you're collecting sand

and you're putting it down and you've become I would be scared here's a crazy question about Sandman how much sand is Sandman he can become a lot of sand no but like

what's the minimum sand a grain of sand is his regular sand self so for a human body so he can not be less than that yeah he can be like a grain of sand oh wait yeah

no that's right because he blows away in the wind well that that. Yeah, he can be like a grain of sand. Oh wait, yeah, no, that's right, because he blows away in the wind. Well, that's at the end. He might be dead. Yeah, he becomes like a beach at some point. But there needs to be a minimum of sand. I was saying grain of sand. What is sand, man? A grain

of sand. Okay. But is he any grain of sand? He can be any grain of sand. Or is there one grain of sand? I think he's any grain of sand. But what be any grain of sand. Or is there one grain of sand? I think he's any grain of sand. But what does that mean? That doesn't make sense. I think he could reconstitute himself through one grain of sand, I reckon. I think that he is, so he is in one specific...

He must be in one specific grain of sand. But he can transfer between different grains of sand. Oh, okay. So if someone swallowed that grain of sand, he could become a different grain of sand. Yes. Yeah, okay, okay. As long as there is one grain of sand somewhere, he's sweet. It might have to be within a certain area.

So if someone swallows the one grain of sand he is and then runs away from sand, then maybe he can't be any other. Maybe he's a sand and shit for a little while. Are you wondering about how close, what the nearest sand is to you right now? No. It's on my mind. Where's the nearest sand? It'd be like a lot of places, right? There's sand in everything. There's sand everywhere.

Glasses, sand. Yeah. Again, mortar, like how we got in the backyard. Yeah, that's true. You'd be alright. Don't worry. Yeah, that's true. Like laying down the bricks, where you can chuck sand on top of that. Yeah, a lot of sand in a lot of things. You'd be all right. Don't worry. Whatever.

He's eternal. He's everywhere. It's fine. That's upsetting to think about Sandman. He could be a stuntman. If you need your stuntman to explode into sand. No, I just mean you could probably shoot him. He'd be fine.

You could be a portable beach. You can shoot him, but he looks like sand. Yeah. No, not all the time. Well, you shoot him, he becomes sand. Yeah, when you shoot him. Not blood doesn't come out, sand comes out. Sand comes out.

Fair point. You do that in post. Yeah. You could make, if you were making a film about a mummy that got shot and sand poured out, great. If you're making a movie about a guy made of sand getting hit by a car, you can do that pretty easily. Oh, so very good.

Well, then you're right. Well, then you're right. You typecast a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a guy made of sand. Yeah. It's rough. All right. So. Then you're right. You typecast a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a guy made of sand. It's rough. All right. His acting is quite wooden.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hi, I'm sand. Okay, you said something else. You've got to actually say the dialogue that was written. Hi, I'm sand. You can hit me with your car all you want. I'm still sand. Also, he's a famous actor now.

Known for being made of sand. So that's all of the villains of Spider-Man 3, which means it's all the villains from the trilogy. So we've got to do our final ranking. Okay, here we go. Final ranking. Is Symbiote better than Bank? I think so. Symbiote, simple plan.

How could this happen to me? Okay, Symbiote, number one. Bank, number two. Symbiote, number three. I want to eat Spider-Man. Yeah, bank number two. Symbiote number three. Symbiote Eddie. I want to eat Spider-Man. Yeah, that's true. Pretty good.

It's a very simple plan. It's very basic. I'm noticing these plans that we're liking is one step. Be on a guy, eat a guy, kick an old lady out of a house. That's more of a two-step plan. Kick an old lady and then I own this house. Yeah, yeah, yeah. A bit more of a step one, a couple steps.

Symbiote Eddie's plan is bad in the same way that New Goblin's plan is bad because he has to fight Spider-Man now. Yes, yeah, yeah. As a consequence, loses. That's Eddie, not the Symbiote. It was just eat a guy.

Oh, yeah. So Symbiote is plan one, but then I'm moving... Actually, sorry, the next one was Symbiote Peter Parker. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Become cool guy when you don't know

what cool guy is. That's a terrible plan. Terrible plan. Is it worse than Green Goblin? Who has the worst plan? Green Goblin's plan plan. Is it worse than Green Goblin? Who has the worst plan? Green Goblin's plan is still the bottom. Currently Green Goblin. Yeah.

I'd say it's worse than Green Goblin's plan. Yeah, because it's short-term gain and also impossible to achieve if you're an idiot. Like, Green Goblin's plans are just kind of like, they just don't make any sense because he's got golden madness. It should almost be to the side, not included. Hitting your girlfriend to become a cool guy, hard to. Make out with this other woman in front of my girlfriend because who can say.

Symbiotes, Peter Parker, bottom. Bottom. Okay, so we're talking symbiote. We're talking bank. We're talking goon. Symbiote Eddie. And then Harry Harry No because Harry

I reckon Harry's You know what Yeah Goon and Symbiote Eddie Should go above Sorry Harry and Symbiote Eddie Should go above

Goon Goon Alright yeah that's fair Fair call Very small plans of like Eat a guy Stab a guy Yeah yeah great

Great plans Although Harry's plan was like, pay a deranged arm. Yeah, no, no, no. But it's still better because Goon complicates it by shooting. Yeah, but he wanted to run away. I know. He wanted to run away, then he shot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, no, fair, fair, fair, fair. I think that's a fine ranking. Yeah. Then Symbiote. No, then Sandman I think is actually the worst plan. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because there's no feasible way for it. It's the same as the, well, is it worse than Symbiote, Peter Parker?

Because it's the same problem. It's here's my plan and here's the solution, and the plan you have picked doesn't lead to the solution. Will never achieve your goal, yeah. Well, I think at least Sandman's goals are more noble. Yeah, but it's not about that. I understand that. It's like, I've got to become cool,

so I'm going to hit my girlfriend. Or I want to pay my daughter's medical bills, I'm going to rob a bank, but then I don't know what to do with them. The problem there is, you know, he's a simple man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's his simple solution.

Simple man, simple plan. Which is like, yeah, I'll rob this bank because the bank has money. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just a matter of, it's a problem of education. That's it. So Flint Margo's plan is better than Symbiote Peter Parker, but I think it is still worse than Green Goblin's.

Green Goblin's is convoluted, but at least sort of in a fucked up way makes sense. So after Goon, we go Doc Ock. Yes. Doc Ock, Green Goblin. Yes. Sandman. Yeah. Symbiote Spider-Man.

Yes. I think that's our final ranking. It's nice that we've sandwiched it between symbiote. Yeah, that's very true. Symbiote, basic. Yeah, and then symbiote on Peter Parker, worst. Worst. Symbiote, basic.

Best. Eat a guy. Beyond a guy. Beyond a guy. Genius. This is a watershed episode. Yeah, this is the one. If you're going to listen to any Plumbing the Death Star episode this summer,

this is the one to listen to. It's a blockbuster episode. And on that note, I've been Joel. I've been Jackson. And I've also been Joel. Give us an Oscar. Yeah. Be on a guy.

Be on a guy, give us an Oscar. Give us an Oscar. Yeah, they should introduce Best Oscar for Best Original Podcast. And Best Oscar for Best Original Podcast. Plumbing the Death Star for The original podcast. And best Oscar for best original podcast goes to Robin the Death Star for the worst Oscar. I got the best Oscar. Yes!

The Oscars are like and the award, if the Oscar goes to picture, it's best picture. No, but it's not best Oscar. You said best Oscar. Best Oscar goes to the best picture. Yeah, well it's not best Oscar. Yeah, it's not best Oscar. You said best Oscar. Then I got best Oscar goes to the best picture. Yeah, well, they're going to bring in best Oscars as well, which is like the Oscars, but better.

All right, fine, they will. They're for podcasts and they're just for us. See you next time. Watershed. Yeah. Watershed episode.