Plumbing the Death Star - Is Batman Really a Hero?

Episode Date: May 27, 2014

In which our heroes wonder if Bruce Wayne's resources could be better allocated. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

It's Hanspence Radio. We don't have a clown statue. Welcome to this week's episode of Plumbing the Death Star, where we ask the important questions like, Is Batman really a hero? No, just straight up no, he's not a hero. Well, okay, well, that's a great start, but what? He's not a hero. What's your actual average? Thanks for listening to this week's episode of Plummy the Star

He's just not Because He seems pretty good He punches the Joker And the penguin All he does I want to take you to the Nolan films All he really does

Is dress up like a bat and go out and fight crime in his own special way. And everything he does is generally pretty selfish. All his motivations are very, very selfish. Say I'm the Joker, and I'm like, in the Dark Knight, I'm going to set up a really complicated and quite confusing boat trap for Batman. Batman, I mean, is that selfish? No, but the thing is, he saves us people.

Does Batman? He does, in a way. But the Joker's only there because Batman exists in the first place. Because, you know, you need another class of criminal, whatever the fucking line is. He's only there because of Batman's been fucking shit up to begin with. So without Batman, you wouldn't get the Joker. Exactly. But without Batman

you have the League of Shadows destroying Gotham in the film previous to that. Yes, yes. But if we look at say Batman Begins Yep, okay, let's look at that film. Alright, remember the big reveal? Let's look at Batman Begins. Let's look at it. Let's take Batman out of the equation.

Okay. End of the film ends with Gotham being destroyed by the let's take Batman out of the equation okay end of the film ends with Gotham being destroyed by the League of Shadows you jumped to the end of the film there let's take the film as a whole

about Batman so Bruce and not Bruce Thomas and Martha Wayne go to a theatre they get shot they get shot and die

yes um the League of Shadows destroys Gotham. No. Nobody wins. You see, because remember the big reveal is that the League of Shadows, we exist because we need to take down cities when they get too full of themselves

or whatever the fuck they did. What was the point of the League of Shadows? Because that's still confusing me. I think they're just dicking around because they're immortal. You know, something like that. Anyway, they said, like, we've dicking around because they're immortal. You know, something like that. Anyway, they said like, we've been fucking around with cities for years. We were the reason Rome fell,

motherfuckers. And that was all the League of Shadows going, look how great we are. And with Gotham, we tried this thing called economics. We tried to fuck it up, but then your father came along and he tried to save the city. But then, ha ha, he got shot in the face, which again pisses Batman off. And he's like,, ha-ha, he got shot in the face,

which again pisses Batman off, and he's like, well, I'm going to punch you in the face now because of vengeance against selfish reasons. But Thomas nearly succeeded, because Ra's al Ghul is saying, look, Thomas, we killed your father. We did. Which is all bullshit. He didn't.

There's no way he could have orchestrated that. If he was, he is clearly magic, and he's not. He is immortal. He does sleep in a Lazarus pit. No, not in the Nolan... I don't think he sleeps in the pit anyway. Not in the Nolan universe, he don't. That's true.

So there's no way that he could have orchestrated that. Oh, no, the train crashed anyway. So what they've gone is gone. I don't remember anything about that. The only thing I remember is that there's a train crashing. So he's gone right economics almost saved fucking Gotham. But now

Gotham is pretty shit. What does Bruce do? He's like, I'm gonna go off and find myself or some wanky thing. Who's in charge while he's away? Some old guy. Is he good? He sort of reminds me of Jerry Springer in Looks. Yeah, he does. Is he good is my sort of reminds me of Jerry Springer in looks Yeah he does

Is he like good is my question Like what's the company like when Bruce gets back I'm taking Bruce out of the equation again Morally grey I think you need to be morally grey If you're running a company in Gotham I don't think he's good at his job Definitely he's a bad

So had Batman not existed Not as in like bad business He's just at his job. Okay. Definitely he's a bad businessman. So had Batman not existed... Not as in like bad businessman as in he's making bad decisions. He's just like nefarious. Fucking over the little guy. Yeah, okay. So, all right. So we've taken... So are we taking Bruce as in like Martha and whatever...

Thomas. Yeah. They still have a son. Yes. Bruce still exists. Oh, Bruce Wayne. Bruce Wayne exists, but Batman. We take Batman out of the equation.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Here's a play-by-play of what happens. League of Shadows still tried to fuck Gotham originally. Economics bullshit still happens. Yeah. Thomas Wayne was fixing it.

Rather than becoming Batman, how about this? Bruce Wayne takes up this sort of... That's not taking Batman out of it. That's just changing Batman's motives. Yeah. Fuck you. That's not the question. No, it is. It is. Gotham's still destroyed.

No, it's not. Yes, it is. He saves it using economics, it's better. But now that's just Bruce Wayne saving it with economics, when really, Bruce Wayne would get back and be like, I don't know how to fucking run a company, I've been away for 12 years. Nobody trained me. The last time I was in any position to be trained, I was 12, and then I left for

fucking Himalayas. No, he goes to boarding trained, I was 12, and then I left for fucking Himalayas. No, he doesn't. He goes to boarding school, he goes to Harvard, then he fucks out of Harvard, I think it was Harvard, or definitely an Ivy League school. He's like, I'm done with this bullshit. I'm going to go and... Find myself in the Himalayas.

Find myself in the Himalayas. He gets to the League of Shadows, and if he said no to being trained by them and Batman doesn't exist, Gotham is fucked. Fucked. Okay, let's say yes. Fucked. Okay, fine. He goes and gets trained by the League of Shadows, but as soon as he comes back to Gotham is fucked. Fucked! Okay, let's say yes. Fucked! Okay, fine.

He goes and gets Trambly. But as soon as he comes back to Gotham, he should not become Batman. He should just start and put most of his money... You have no reason to believe that Bruce would be a good businessman. Yeah, not whatsoever. You're just sort of thinking genetically

because his dad was. He should be. Not so much. He might be awful. The only time bruce wayne does anything good for his company is when he isn't fucking running his company no he buys it back he does this all thing where he sets up dummy corporations so that lucius fox can basically run it so he that's that can still happen all that can still happen is if you take him dressing up

in fucking bondage gear and going out punching criminals in the face what's his motivation for doing that if it's not to fund his own ego trip as Batman? Well, that's the other problem. Where is he funding his money? Where is he getting the funding? Where is he getting his money to fund Batman? If anything, this is further proof that he's a terrible person and would be bad at running his business. He's happy to embezzle

his own company. And that's my point. He's embezzling. Okay, so he's not a hero, but he's the hero Gotham deserves. No. No. No. I love hero, but he's the hero Gotham... No, no, no. I love that line. He's the hero Gotham deserves, because fuck Gotham. Gotham needs a shit guy. It's right up to here with pricks and assholes.

We need a bigger prick and asshole to lead the way. If you look at Batman, if you look at him, so everything he does, he does it out of selfish motivations. Everything. To avenge his parents. So he's like, you know, I do love that Batman, his parents die. And I think I've brought this up in another episode on Taylor's Face. His parents die and he's not like, I'm going to get the guy who killed my parents.

He's like, all crime. All crime. All crime anywhere. Taking it down. All right. So someone that has a very similar thing happen to them, but actually has superpowers. Spider-Man. He finds himself in a pretty similar situation

and again, doesn't just decide to take down the one guy he decides crime great power comes with great responsibility Spider-Man does it better, is that what we're saying? I think so, I think that's what we're saying yeah, Spider-Man does it alright, but Spider-Man's sort of living in the Marvel universe

Green Goblin never skinned a dude but I'm pretty sure the Joker did. Batman has to be a certain level. Fucking Kraven the Hunter is never like, I'm going to set up a nefarious boat trap for Spider-Man. He's like, I'm going to hunt the Hulk. That's not his voice. The Punisher exists, though, and he's fucking...

Yeah, but Punisher's like, I'll go after the Mafia. Punisher doesn't care about just all crime. It's just organized crime. That's true. He chose specifically. I want to argue that the Penguin is the true hero of Gotham. He is a far better superhero. Well, maybe not superhero, but he's far better for Gotham

than Bruce Wayne or Batman could ever be. That is the worst argument I've ever heard. Go on. So Penguin's only in it've ever heard. So, Penguin's only in it for monetary gain, right? Penguin's not, like, sadistic. He doesn't have, like, a weird, like, he's obsessed with penguins, but he's a little bit sadistic as well.

He's like, I'm gonna get some animal cruelty for one. That's a... Are you on board for animal cruelty, you fuck? I'm not saying I support the penguin. I'm not saying that if I found myself in Gotham and they were like, hey, we're doing like henchmen, like tryouts, I'd be like, I'm not going to penguin.

I'd probably go for scarecrow or something. So like penguin is the hero? He's not a hero, but penguin opens businesses. Penguin starts nightclubs. Penguin creates jobs. He opens rackets and trains people to be fucks. Like, the reason people are getting mugged on the street is probably Penguin's fault.

Yeah, that's a good point. Okay, that's nice. He's employing criminals. Yeah. Good. Gotham is wall-to-wall criminals. Okay, no, no, no, shut the fuck up. If you ran Wayne Enterprises, and you are hiring,

the people of Gotham are scum. How many of them have any kind of tertiary education? And this is my point. Why are they scum? They're on that sort of balance. And if you think about why are they scum, because times are tough. They have nowhere else to turn to,

so they turn to a life of crime right so that's all about economic and um again um economics and where they're funding money into well you're not going to be able to fix it by making one company tits better not make jobs for every criminal in gotham that's the better thing are we saying that everyone in gotham is either a police officer or a henchman? No, it's a police officer, henchman, or the very rich. Exactly. Yeah, actually, fucking Wayne is always having rich, fancy bullshit balls. Exactly. Where are all those people coming from?

I'm assuming Metropolis or other cities. No, it's a Gotham elite. Yeah. So the problem with Bruce Wayne, okay, fine. He can go and train the fucking League of Shadows, all that kind of stuff. And I also want to point out, he gets really uppity about, okay, fine. He can go and train the fucking League of Shadows, all that kind of stuff. And I also want to point out, he gets really uppity about like, I'm not going to kill this farmer guy

who I'm taking as like he murdered his buddy for some issue. I'm not going to do that. Instead, I'm going to kill every single person of the League of Shadows by using explosions and try and just save that one guy. But is it selfishness or just incompetence? It's weird. It's like, I'm not going to kill this one guy by killing all these other guys.

That will work in my favor. He's not a good hero, which is my point. Yeah. It's sort of odd, because he does. All he does is save his mate. He doesn't save Ra's al Ghul, the guy he thinks is Ra's al Ghul. He doesn't save the buddies he's clearly made whilst training in the League of Shadows.

The only person he saves is his sort of mentor, right? Another selfish reason. Fair enough. Also, when Falcone insults his dad and basically calls his dad a coward pussy, he gets all sulky. He's basically like, his whole reason his only reason for getting back at Falcone is simply because he

insulted his pop-pop. Alright, but Falcone is simply because he insulted his pop-pop. All right, but look. No, Falcone's the fucking head of organized crime. You might as well, even if it's a selfish reason. It's probably good to kind of get him. Yeah, get rid of him. Get rid of him. No, but look, fair enough.

He runs away and becomes a fucking criminal. It's all bullshit. In Batman, he's... I'm going to become a criminal. Fuck you. Hey, man, white-collar crime. Who's the real victim? It's not white-collar crime. No one. He steals from Wayne Enterprises, really. Which is white-collar crime. Who's the real victim? It's not white-collar crime.

No one. He steals from Wayne Enterprises, really. Which is white-collar crime. No, it's not. That's exactly the definition of white-collar crime. White-collar crime. No, when you're stealing physical, like, basically you're stealing TVs out of the back of a van.

No, he's not. That's not white-collar. But he's embezzling, and embezzlement is... No, he embezzles later on. I'm saying at the very start, when he's off gallivanting around in Asian countries. Fair enough. He steals... In Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne's off gallivanting around in Asian countries. Fair enough. He steals.

In Batman Begins, Bruce Wayne is a selfish dick. I can accept that. But Batman Begins, he's just starting out. That's fine. He doesn't know what he's capable of. That's fine. Dark Knight. Selfish prick.

He stops. No. Boat. Boat trap. Doesn't matter. Steal a selfish dick. Stops the SWAT from killing innocent people. That's true.

But his motivation is generally, let's take racial. That's true, but his motivations generally are, let's take Rachel, right? Now, Gotham, he's having... Sorry, what was that? Rachel! He's having, like, a very fancy dinner party. Very fancy dinner party. Joker comes in, he's like, give me Harvey Dent,

and he's all like, I've got Rachel now, and I'm going to throw her out the window. Yeah. And he's like, let her go. He's like, well done, Batman. Good choice of words. You idiot. Beautiful setup.

Beautiful setup. Let's just point that out. And then he just jumps after Rachel. Again, very self- Leaving a whole room full of very, very wealthy people who could make a difference if, you know, they put money into Gotham. What kind of superhero are you looking for?

Nietzsche's Uberman? Somebody who has no humanity left in them. He jumps out the window. You're looking for? Nietzsche's Uberman? But he jumps out the window. No humanity left in them. He jumps out the window, saves Rachel, and just forgets about the party. He won't... So to be a good hero, you need to be Superman, but an accountant.

No. To be a good hero, it's a good hero, you just need to be thinking of the better, the grander picture The greater good? Not just the greater good But where can you invest money Where can you invest your time and resources

To be a better service for your community So Batman, very rich And fucking trained up the wazoo Clearly has better tech than any of Gotham PD Why is he like Okay, I'm a consultant for Gotham PD This is how you fucking fight, you know, fucking Batman does seem to hate the police.

Yeah, but the police are all really corrupt, remember. Yes, and why are they corrupt? First off, what makes you... Because Gotham is full of scum! People keep buying off the cops. Exactly. Money is an issue. So you pay Gotham PD fucking well. Why would you take a bribe? You're right. No, okay, so I am

a crooked cop. Uh-huh. Gotham PD starts giving me more money. I'm like, sweet, now I've double the money. Yeah. No, no. I'm going to still be a fucking crooked cop. Okay, hang on. Let's try this.

You're going to be an agent of Wayne Enterprises. You're going to be like a grunt sent to the PD to give Dusha, who is like a crooked cop, a handout, basically. And I will be a henchman of the Pangolin. All right. And we'll just go into his office. Hi there, officer. So we intend to poison the water supply later on.

I'm happy to. But would you, I mean, like what, a mill, cold mill? Cold mill. Yeah. Okay, how about this? We will offer you more than that to stop and arrest this man for poisoning the water. We'll shoot you if you don't.

We will protect you and try and shoot them. Hang on, give me a second. So I get a flat out $1 million for looking the other way for, what, a couple of days? You're going to pay me more than a million dollars? Yes. For how much work? You're doing that for every cop does every cop get this can you afford this

I feel like that's going to be a drain I'm just a street thug and already why are you offering a mil because he works for the penguin don't be disrespectful to cunts in my office we'll shoot you I have so many penguin guns and gadgets. Clearly, you know his plan is going to fail.

I like to imagine in this scenario, I just have a penguin under my arm. Yeah, okay. It's rigged to explode. Okay, sorry guys. Just let me interject. So, you're saying his plan's going to fail. He's still giving me a million dollars.

You know, that's no effort for this guy. He can sit there. In fact, if it fails, that's better for me because I don't have it on my conscience. I just have a million dollars. So we're going to pretty much take him down because we've got the Batman and all our good cops. And you know what?

We're probably going to take you down as well. When he leaves the office, it's full of dudes down the street in a penguin car. Okay, hang on. So you're paying me $1 million a day. No, no, I never said this. You're simply paying me a good salary. I paying me $1 million a day. No, I never said this. You're simply paying me a good salary. I'll give you a meal a day.

Why is it all about the money? What are you going to do with $2 million? Retire. Become one of Gotham's elite. Yeah, man. So do you want to chuff off so we can shoot you? Yeah. Have this penguin. It's rigged to explode.

Wow, you are just an extremely selfish man aren't you I live in Gotham What were you expecting You know we're all scum Did you not know that You might want to go to Metropolis mate I think I need to hire a superman

Just to level this city So I'm just going to chuff off. We're going to poison the water supply. I'll look forward to that. Don't drink anything for the next three, four days. I'm sorry. A bottle of water is the way to go. Thanks for the tip, bro.

Not a problem. Security, can you get... Criminal. I am... This guy. You might want to get rid of him. Our Batman are not going to be pleased with this development. In my mind, I was dressed like such a thug as well.

Like such an obvious... Like I probably had a big penguin in front of me. And you're carrying a really big bat. But no, I mean... It's so obvious. I just stroll out of there and they arrest them. But when you think about it, I mean, yes, you are looking at very corrupt people, but if you generally weed them out and you get someone like, I mean, yes, you are looking at very corrupt people.

But if you generally weed them out and you get someone like, say, Harvey Dent, who is the white knight, to try and get rid of those people. And you are offering incentives not to be a criminal, not to be a rat. So we're sticking to the Nolan universe at the moment. The other reason Harvey Dent is alive in that film is because a gun backfires once. So if Batman didn't interject, Harvey Dent would have gone to fucking get another criminal to testify. Probably been shot. Not really, because if it happened once,

they're going to be quite wary that's going to happen again. Beefing up security by all the corrupt cops. Well, that's the thing. Not every cop is corrupt. Most of them are. Not most of them. No, most of them are. Not only a few.

There are only two non-corrupt cops that would be fucking Commissioner Gordon and that other guy. No, Ramirez is and the other guy who gets shot. I would say the majority of cops are corrupt. No. They are. That's the whole point.

Everyone hates Harvey Dent. Did you watch the fucking movie? I did watch the fucking movie. I was there. I know you were there. You were right next to me. No, I'm simply saying- Everyone hates Harvey Dent.

I hate Harvey Dent. Yeah, he's going to get shot. You need Batman. You don't need to pay the police force. The police force are too far gone. You fucked up. Crime's winning in your city. We need the Batman.

The Batman is not the hero Gotham might want. It's the hero they fucking deserve. Because the fucking city's shit. Dickheads like you can't change that. It's because of you. No one. You can't change it. Things have gone bad.

You need Batman. It's because. No. No. It's over crime won they won it's because of people like you

people like me the average joe of society joe scum citizen I'm not the reason it's people like you people who like fucking white knight Harvey Dent who thinks they can just come in here change my way of life

get fucking shot three weeks into the job and then people come to me and they're like how did this happen it's like he came to fucking Gotham and wanted to change shit we need Batman we don't need cops with too much money they're already He came to fucking Gotham and wanted to change shit. We need Batman. We don't need cops with too much money.

They're already corrupt. Everything. Fuck off to Metropolis. Can I interject a moment? I know you're angry. But I'm simply saying, if you had a conscience, some sort of moral compass to realize what you're doing isn't the best and you know you clearly do not have gotham's interest at heart what's wrong with the amount of scum in gotham what's really bad that's happening in gotham yeah see that's why i

think the penguin's fine he's not really hurting anyone i'm going back to the penguin motherfuckers is happening penguin's not really hurting anyone. Maybe he'll explode a couple of dudes with an exploding penguin. But ultimately, he's probably pumping more money into the every-joke-you-scum of Gotham than Wayne Enterprises ever will. But you're talking about incentives, and you're talking about the human condition, right? Sure am.

So, fucking, the penguin's over here going all like... I'm talking about the penguin, but what? The penguin over here is all like penguin penguin over right here's basically going you're all scum let's be scum together yeah whereas i'm saying why don't bruce wayne be like anti-scum like hey guys you don't have to live like scum we can all be the best let's all just better society implement maybe better education system um so you're not living with about you know 18 people in a one room bedroom in the fucking narrows

if you're just a dude in the street and you come out of shitty Gotham High and you're like given two options, you're like I could go to college and I could work my way up Wayne Enterprises maybe because it's not just Wayne Enterprises what the fuck else is there you create jobs

no you don't, because it's full of crime You get shot if you try and do that You try and stop that You are the worst fucking recruiter Become a criminal because if everyone's a criminal Someone pulls a gun on you You pull your gun on them Somebody pulls their fucking joker gun that says bang

You pull your exploding penguin Then everybody has a laugh And we just move on. All I'm saying is that... See, Batman would have stopped this. Fucking economics kind of shit. Sam here gets rid of Batman. This is what happens.

Joker thugs penguins exploding everywhere. You fucked Gotham even further. God damn. It all comes back on you, Sam Sam. All I'm saying is that I think Batman as a person is half-assing his heroic activities in Gotham. He could do much better as a philanthropist.

He could do a much better job at pumping money into the economy of Gotham, trying to build it up from its scum and villainy, because, yes, in a few generations, it will eventually fuck right off and hopefully be replaced with good, upstanding citizens. Because not everyone wants to be a criminal. Yeah, yeah, I'm going to be a corrupt cop. Okay, fine.

Because Batman may be a half-arsed hero, but a half-arsed hero is the hero that Gotham deserves. They don't deserve a whole arse. Fine, okay deserves. They don't deserve a whole arse. Fine. Okay. Gotham does not deserve a whole arse. Okay. What is the...

Fine. Fine. If we look at a hero, what is a definition of a hero? A good definition of a superhero, particularly a superhero. Okay, superhero. Someone with powers that does good. Generally, what is one of the qualities of almost every single hero that... They stop crime. They do stop crime, but they're all about single hero is that they stop crime.

They do stop crime, but they're all about self-sacrificing. I would not agree. Most of them are about self-sacrificing. Alright. How does Spider-Man self-sacrifice? He sacrifices pretty much everything, like living a normal life. Yeah, Spider-Man does sacrifice living a normal life. But he also does live a normal life.

No, it ends up being fucked up. What does he do? No, no, no. No, no, no. If he he wasn't spider-man he wouldn't get to fuck mary jane no and batman doesn't really live a normal life does he yeah in fact he's kind of given up everything to be batman literally everything literally his entire life is being batman that's kind of exactly and that's my point it's not because what happens at the end of the dark knight rises. He stops being Batman. But he makes sure Joseph Gordon-Levitt does it. That's a terrible fucking way of doing things.

He's already self-sacrificed. No, he hasn't. He's fucking lied to everyone. What about Iron Man? He pretends to Iron Man. He self-sacrificed. In The Avengers, he goes and grabs the nuclear bomb. He's like, fuck it.

So that's it? That's enough for you? So one self-sacrifice? So Batman's three years of sacrificing his life is enough? It's about self-sacrificing batman's three years of sacrificing his life it's about self-sacrificing he's like i am prepared to die for the greater good but then he doesn't die he doesn't he doesn't because it's all basically an accident whereas if you look if you look at fucking that's all it takes if you look at batman look at batman yep well he's like i'm gonna play a trick on everyone. All my, like, Commissioner Gordon, Alfred, the guy who has raised me from a

fucking child, and make it look like I'm dead. Even though I have planned this all out so that I'm not gonna die, I'm just gonna be a dick about it and make everyone think I'm gonna die. I agree. Batman's a cunt. He is a cunt. He is a straight up cunt. But he is the cunt that Gotham deserves!

Fuck you Batman is necessary Harvey Dent's an asshole Penguin fucking rocks I'm simply saying That Batman has a lot of tech That he could loan to fucking Gotham PD Oh yeah he should loan them to corrupt cops like me

So I can then shoot you with it Let's give everybody a Batman suit So that all the cops have Batman suits and are flying around the city beating up innocent people. Stealing ladies' money. Just simple training. Zabat is bad for Gotham. Simple training, diagnostics.

Zabat is bad at Gotham. I mean, look, he gets a fucking caliber, like, giant fucking gun, shoots into concrete, and is able to get a fucking fingerprint from the- I think Gotham PD could use that diagnostic equipment. I'm sure the three good cops in Gotham PD

would find great use in fighting crime criminals. I'm gonna get Superman. I'm gonna get him to punch the fuck out of Gotham so it just gets fucking sunk into the sea. I don't give a fuck anymore. Fuck Gotham. You're all fucked. So your solution is terrorism. Yeah, yeah, yeah I don't give a fuck anymore. Fuck Gotham. You're all fucked. So your solution is terrorism.

And Batman's a bad hero. Extra alien terrorism, that's what I'm doing. Samet became the problem. Samet lived long enough to see himself become the villain. It's all fucked. Samet's fucked. Yes! Damn it.

I've been Joel. Fuck you. I've been Jackson. Fuck you. I've been Joel. Fuck you. I've been Jackson. Fuck you. I've been Joel. Batman is good for Gotham. Xamarin is terrible for it. This has been plumbing the death stone. I'm not sure what fucking Gotham deserves, you fucking cunts.

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