Plumbing the Death Star - Is it Ethical to Bust Ghosts?

Episode Date: July 4, 2021

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SANSPANCE RADIO, Australia's most procedurally generated podcast network. on ADHD meds, so honestly, who knows what's going to happen from now to then. All I know is that it's going to be exciting as I refuse to read what the side effects are. Then, at August 1st at 2pm, we're part of the Melbourne Podcast Festival and we've made the wise decision to tackle the hard-hitting questions of how would you curse a small village. The first time we tried to answer that question, we couldn't release it on the public feed and if you're a Sants Pants Plus member, you can listen there and find out why. So if you want to be part of history where three idiots with bad brains get banned from a festival,

links to the tickets are in the show notes. Hey, everyone, and welcome to this week's episode of Plumbing the Death Star, where we ask the important questions like, is it ethical to bust ghosts? So the Ghostbusters, you know them. I know them. You call them.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Ghost problem. Yeah, and they have taken it upon themselves to, upon encountering a ghost, use their proton packs to- Science. Yeah, to trap the ghost. Bust ghosts. You could call, you could say, hey, that ghost's busted. Yeah.

They have, like, basically a ghost trap. They're like- They lie to you through song, and they trap ghosts. Yeah, exactly. Because they say in their song, I ain't afraid of no ghost, but they shit their silks every time. I'd be afraid of some ghosts. I am afraid of a lot of ghosts.

I am afraid of ghosts. If I found out ghosts were real, I'd be like, I don't know if I'd be afraid or just be hassled. Well, it depends what kind of ghosts we're getting. We're getting a slimer. I'm like, yeah, it's annoying. I hope I don't become a slimer when I die. I've got some terrible news for you.

If ghosts are real and you have unfinished business, you'll be back as a slimer or a ghost that's a fart or something. Oh, man. This is not what I expected Evan to be like. You're just a floating arse. A floating gas. Somebody just fart. No, it's me, Jackson.

It's me. I have unfinished business here. Don't know what it is. But the ghosts in Ghostbusters, they tend to be either horribly distorted versions of themselves in life, i.e. Slimer, or just fellas, just folks. And the Ghostbusters, using their proton packs, put them in the ecto chamber or whatever it is, presumably forever. Now, when you die, do you give up your rights?

Can you just put any, if I'm dead, can you put me in prison? They just entrap them. That's all then the problem is Oh no They've escaped And then they start Haunting New York or whatever It's not illegal To be a ghost Or it shouldn't be

In the world of ghostbusters It seems as though They treat it like a crime Well Because Ghostbest Ghostbesters Ghost

They are ghostbesters They do best to ghosts I'm trying to remember In ghostbusters What they do is also Against the law Because then there's That courtroom scene

Where it's like Everything was going fine Until Dick was here to cut off the power. Is that true? Yes, Your Honour, this man has no dick. Everyone stands up and claps. Well done, the riffs of Bill Murray. Well, they're very good, but I'm kind of on the EPA's side here because what he has a problem with happens.

That is true. That is true. It is unregulated. They don't know what's going on and suddenly we've got like what four guys being like we've got this covered well yeah because it's probably i mean from where we're standing right now no it doesn't seem ethical but are the ghosts on earth do they have unfinished business and is it more ethical to help them finish their business are ghosts inherently evil and is putting them in the trap, sending them to heaven slash hell, or just jail.

The ghost in the library is just knocking over books. It's a librarian. Yeah, that's true. Which is the opposite of a librarian. I've got a bunch of ghosts here. So Slimer, he's a Slimer. What does Slimer commit?

He's legally driving a bus. No driver's license, but he's driving a bus. He might have a license. Weird enough he was a bus driver. If you have a license during life and you die, do you still have a license? Slimer doesn't have any legs. How's he accelerating? Or braking, more importantly.

Yeah, so it's dangerous for Slimer to drive a bus. But he manages to. Stop driving the goddamn bus, Slimer. He does manage to drive the bus. He stops the bus, he opens it, and he's like, I'm driving the bus, come on in. So he does stop it. What is he doing wrong?

Fuck you, Sliver. Get out of that damn bus. Can you get out of bus driver? And. Get out of the damn bus. He stops at a bus stop. Yeah. He's doing the work.

Is this a heart and soul situation or whatever? Wait, that guy wasn't a bus driver was he? No, he was Robert Downey Jr. He died because of a bus. He died because of a bus? A bunch of them died on the bus. Was he driving the bus? Who is the he in that sentence?

Robert Downey Jr. He's a baby nearby. He's a baby nearby. But the people on the. Yeah, but the people on the bus die. Yes. And they go into the baby nearby. Is the driver part of that bus? No, he becomes like an angel. Yeah.

But he fucked up because he's like, what do you mean no one told you you can use this baby to have unfinished business? Oh, that was me or something. And that's his punishment because when he was driving the bus, he was watching a girl get fingered or something, and that's what made him cry. Yeah. That's fair. So. Awo's fair so or is he like oh no he's like oh no and then crash the bus every

every ghost is probably down so yeah so again is islam or anything like well here's the real world if you drive a bus without if i got in a bus yeah and pretended be a bus driver, that would be a crime. But I would not be put in jail for it. That's forever. Well, it depends because it's a kidnapping, isn't it? Doesn't it technically count as kidnapping? If you were impersonating a bus driver, you'd drive a city bus. You'd stop at bus stops and then you'd drive. Is that kidnapping?

Well. Because you are taking people. But you're taking them to their stops. Yep. But you are Slimer. But you're taking them to their stops. Yep. But you are Slimer. So what's the go there? Well, either way, even if you kidnap someone, you don't put... Slimer is doing something where he's interacting with the general public.

So even though he's doing a job, he wasn't hired to do that job, and he's taking away jobs from hard-working, alive Americans. Living Americans. Okay, so now we're saying that Slimer should go to jail forever because he's taking a job that someone else would rather do. Okay, so before we judge him too harshly, let's have a look at him driving the bus. I think he should be in jail. Look at him. Yuck.

For scaring me. Put him in jail. And let's be honest. He looks like if Barney the dinosaur was a spew. Okay, so you've got Slimer, who is definitely interacting with people. You've also then apparently there's a dream ghost that maybe sucked off Dan Aykroyd.

Okay, not a crime. Not a crime. Sucking off Dan Aykroyd's not a crime. Dan Aykroyd, his eyes go crying. I think he's excited about it, about the prospect of getting sucked off by a ghost. Is he not? I mean, potentially.

But again, he's terrified, so I would consider it a crime. No, that's fair. Good point. That is a crime. Put that ghost in jail. Exactly. There's no discussion beforehand. There's no kind of like-

No discussion of consent. That's a great point. No discussion of consent. So again, it's kind of like- Again, there's definitely affecting someone there. So again, crime. But then you have someone like the Central Park jogger ghost who is just jogging. Yeah, not a crime.

Ain't a crime to jog, even if you are dead. Yeah. So again, there's a subway ghost, apparently. I think from memory, they were just going on the subway. So a lot of these ghosts are just kind of there. Do you think if you died, if you died, okay, okay if you know god forbid that comes to to fruition yeah i'm planning it if you die and then you've got to live your life as a ghost and the ghost busters you know say you keep coming into the studio haunting the studio yeah you know ghost

busters the whole the whole bloody titanic comes back to New York. Yeah. Better late than never. And then the ghostbusters are like, I'm so sorry. Welcome to New York. Welcome to New York. Yeah. They've taken centuries to go from England to New York.

And when they get there, what is their welcome? A bustin'. Hey, want to hear something more terrifying about that? That means that the Titanic has a soul or a spirit or something because that boat is a ghost. Did they put the boat in jail? No, yeah, the boat is a ghost. Because it's not just the broken Titanic from the bottom of the sea. No, it is a ghost.

It's a Titanic that's been wounded. Yeah. Because it's got the big gaping hole. Yeah. They also have been making a lot of scientific equipment with no license whatsoever, and they drive the Statue of Liberty with no license. Do they put it back?

Especially if they just get off in the middle of New York. What are you going to do? Are you going to get a guy to put the Statue of Liberty? No, sir. Apparently there was a zombie taxi driver as well. A lot of these ghosts... Go back to the day job, maybe. Yeah, it seems like it. Well, who's culpable?... Go back to the day job, maybe. Yeah, it seems like it.

Well, who's culpable? Are the Ghostbusters culpable, or am I culpable for hiring the Ghostbusters? Is New York expected to just... Deal with the ghosts? Like, accept that there's ghosts now, and the ghosts will just do whatever they please? If you're a bus driver and Slimer's in your bus,

do you have to sit in Slimer to drive the bus? That sounds wet. No, thank you. Rick Moranis gets on your bus. Do you have to sit in Slimer to drive the bus? That sounds wet. No, thank you. Rick Moranis gets on the bus. Yeah. He says, okay, I didn't know you had your license. Rick Moranis in the Ghostbusters movie fucking brawls. Yeah, his name's Lewis.

Yeah, he's cool. Lewis Tully. He tries to have a swinger party at one point. Yeah, classic Lewis Tully. The Ghostbusters also save New York twice, right? Once from Gozer and once from Zool. Zool! Who is a painting?

Oh, what's his name? It's like Vigo or something. Vigo, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The painting, whatever. Who fills New York sewers with pink goo. Yeah. Now, I guess the question becomes, in a Zool situation, who are you expecting to deal with that?

Hang on. Are the ghosts that they're busting, are they genuinely people who have died, or are they demons? Because we also have a lot of demons. Zool's a demon, isn't he? Yeah, Zool is a demon, and so is Gozo. Yeah. And Star-Puffed, I don't believe.

Star-Puffed? Stay-Puffed Marshmallow Man. I don't know if there was a guy who was the Stay-Puffed Mallow. Well, do you know the Stay-Puffed Mallow isn't a real brand guy who was the Stay Puft Mallow. Well, do you know the Stay Puft Mallow isn't a real brand? I was assumed it was a real brand. Really? It's made up for Ghostbusters. That's crazy.

Is the really that I'm an idiot for thinking that? I guess it kind of looks like the Michelin Man. Yeah, I think that's where we get confused. He should have been the Michelin Man. Yeah, I'll fuck your tires up. That's his famous catchphrase. So the Stay Puft Mellow, is that demons?

Yes. Is that a ghost? At what point? At what point is... Do mascots have ghosts? No, no, no. Mascots have souls. I'm so sorry. Yeah, yeah.

But no, the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man... Ronald McDonald. Your brain's McDonald's? If I brained McDonald's, yes. Yes, please continue. Follow that thought. Don't let it go. If I brained McDonald's, yes. Yes, please continue. Follow that thought.

Don't let it go. If I brained Ronald McDonald, would his ghost come back and haunt me? Did he have unfinished business? Or is that his time to die? I've never seen a sentence that needs to be put down more in my life. No, hold it. What if it gets good in the end? The person who was the actor who was betraying Ronald McDonald

that I just brained, would he come back? If I brained McDonald's, would he come back as a ghost? What could any of that possibly mean? So you mean if someone stressed out as Ronald McDonald and you'd kill them with a brick? No, no.

Well, first we need to define brain. I think that means if he imagined into existence McDonald's. Oh, no, no, no. I was meaning to brain somebody

to like a brick. So if you killed a McDonald's. If I killed a Ronald. A Ronald McDonald. Would he come back? The guy would, yeah. Well, again, but.

What are you saying? You killed a man. How do I kill a mascot without killing the man who's betraying him? With Grimace, he could probably just weigh down a suit with some bricks thrown in the lake. And is that coming back?

I don't know. The Stay Puft Marshmallow Man only comes into existence, let's not forget, because Dan Aykroyd imagines, because of the Goza magic, anything he imagines will come to life. So he imagines the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man. comes into existence, let's not forget, because Dan Aykroyd imagines, because of the Goza magic, anything he imagines will come to life. So he imagines a Stay Puft Marshmallow Man, who they then kill. And the question becomes, when he imagined him, did he give that Stay Puft Marshmallow Man a soul?

Did he murder him? Did New York murder him? Can you kill a painting? All valid questions. If I, the, What's his name? Zool? Z-U-U-L Zool! If I said Zool on fire

Yeah. Dracula noises. What's the problem? It wasn't quite Dracula. I don't know what was going on there. I want to not be on fire! But am I going to jail for killing a guy? You can kill Dracula.

Yeah. Van Helsing never went to jail. Yeah, that is true. But it was old times. Because there's those dog demons. What? Oh, yeah. And if you're killing them, is it illegal?

To kill a dog? Yes. Because the question is, it's not really is it illegal to bust ghosts. It's is it illegal to kill a monster? That is a problem, right? But this is where it comes down to what would... What do you contract werewolfism from a toilet seat? I guess it was a wolfman.

You sat in a toilet seat. It was actually a wolfman. A wolfman down with his mouth open. I'm like, oh, my tuchus. It was a wolfman pervert. This toilet is taking a fresh bite out of my tuchus. My tuchus, oh. Oh, it hurts.

And then you two push me off a cliff. Yes, we would. I would be like, I got bit on the tuchus. You'd be like, you've said this every day. Every day for 27 days. And now suddenly you're a big werewolf. Yeah. You kill me on the cliff.

Yeah. Did you commit a crime? Do people know you're a werewolf? Yeah, let's say. Okay. I tweeted it. Became a werewolf today. Lol.

Because if we can prove you attacked us or whatever, then I think we're fine. If you can what? Prove that you attacked us. Oh, right, right, right, right. Well, what if I didn't? But what if I was like, I intend to go out and like steal chickens or whatever. Whatever a werewolf does. I think we just have to call the police then.

Yeah. We can fight back. That's true. So like if you threatened us, I could hit you with my car. Well, you've just said you're doing it, so it's premeditated. So if you were like, eh, tomorrow I'm going to stab you, and you legitimately are going to stab us, I think it is in our best interest.

Well, what about this? What if I'm like, when I become a werewolf. Drop a big rock on your head. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You've killed me in so many good ways. All of them blunt force trauma. But if I was like, okay, I'm going to become a werewolf. Yep.

I won't be in control tomorrow And you killed me What's the crime? Is it murder? It's heroism It's not murder because Well it's kind of murder No because you attacked us

No no I'm not attacking you I'm just saying that when I become a werewolf There's a good chance Because that's what being a werewolf is Is that I won't be in control of my actions And then you hit me with a brick And then before you turn in Yeah that's murder What if I'm a, is that I won't be in control of my actions. Yes. And then you hit me with a brick. And then before you turn in, yeah, that's better. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What if I'm a

wolfman? Are you attacking us? But I've not done anything yet, but I'm howling at the moon and you don't know what I'm going to do next. Well, then that's... Self-defense, probably. We would lie to the cops. To make it a little easier, I would say you attacked us. Just to be like, yeah, yeah, but like, no, I wouldn't be attacking

you unless you attacked us. Okay. What if I'm a vampire? Does it change? No, same concept. Are you attacking me or are you just living your vampire life? Well, I'm like, I don't know. I might suck your blood.

What do you mean you don't know? Vampire's different because you're in control. You have complete control of... Are you going to suck our blood? I don't know. What do you mean you don't? They're trying to feel like yes is your answer. I think you are going to suck my blood.

I'm not sure yet. You're going to do it. Yeah, you're going to wear high yes is your answer I think you are going to suck my blood I'm not sure yet you're going to do it yeah you're going to wear high collars I can feel it in my body well I'm just trying to explore the options

of the ethics of killing a monster you know what I mean I'm just trying to figure out the rules I think you can't ethically unless that monster

is directly attacking you because all we have to go on is say werewolf and vampire propaganda. That is true. Okay, new scenario. You push me off the cliff. I'm not a monster when you do.

It's a were-murderers. Everybody gets it. We get off? Yeah, you get off. The judge is like, Jack, yeah, okay. But I come back as a ghost and I continually haunt you. I'm like, ooooh. I'm hanging around with you. Okay. And then you'reunt you. I'm like, ooh, hanging around with you. Okay.

And then you're like, Jackson, we've got a priest here. We're going to send you to heaven. Yes. And I'm like, I don't want to go. I'm having way too much fun here going,

ooh. I love going, ooh. I love watching you turn over, can't sleep. That's funny for me. Yeah. And then you use the priest,

you bless me, I go to heaven. Yeah. Is that a crime? No. No. Why not? I was annoying. Oh, boo- me, I go to heaven. Yeah. Is that a crime? No. No. Why not? I was annoying.

Oh, boo-hoo. We're saving you. It's like rehab. It's getting tricky. It's getting tricky, isn't it? But no, you were being a menace. I was being a nuisance at most. We were like, hey, you can keep being around.

Breaking and entering is a crime? If you don't stop. Never broke. I think it would be a discussion with you as a ghost to be like, if you don't stop haunting us, we are going to get a priest and send you to heaven. I'm going to try and send you to hell, but priests don't do that. I'm going to give you to the end of the week,

and if you continue to haunt me, I'm calling a priest. What counts as haunting? You going, ooh, making all the funny little games you're having. Anything you do. What if I don't make any noise? I just float around. That's a haunting. Well, no, we'll know.

Well, Dushar wants to get rid of me, see? Yeah, I do. Get out of my house. Well, it depends what you're doing. I'm floating around. Floating around doing what? You watching me sleep? I'm watching what's happening.

There's not much else going on. Yeah, but you're watching me sleep? Why don't you leave if you're bored? You're clearly bored. You sound bored. I'm attached to the house. Why are you attached to the house? I'm watching what's happening. There's not much else going on. Yeah, but you're watching me sleep? Why don't you leave if you're bored? You're clearly bored. You sound bored. I'm attached to the house. Why are you attached to the house? I pushed you off a cliff.

This is where I felt the most connected. I don't know. Joel Zermatt's house. Thank you. You're welcome. Well, it depends what you're doing. If you're watching me and my wife sleep, I'm not happy with this. I'll be like, please don't.

What if I'm like, there's no perverted angle. I'm just bored. I'm not getting off. I'm a ghost. There's just nothing else happening in the house. Okay, here are my boundaries. I watched the cats for 10 minutes. I go, who cares? Let's see what's happening to his wife. She's sleeping still. Yeah, I'll just

perch here for 8 hours. I'm more excited than 10 minutes of the cats. I'm a ghost. I would be like, okay, there's some boundaries here. Okay, can I go into your bedroom? Yeah, just don't do that. But if you keep doing that, I'll be like, well, there's some boundaries here. Okay, go into your bedroom. Yeah, just don't do that. But if you keep doing that, I'll be like, well, I'm getting a priest. So you're just going to hang in the lounge room with the cats. It sucks.

It's almost like now you want to go to heaven, right? No, because I'm digging my feet in. There's a spare bedroom. You can have that. Haunt that all you want. You can even do oohs in there. Well, no. You can have a spare bedroom at my house where you can just go ooze in it

I can go and do some ooze you can go ooze up until a certain point then I want to go to bed hey dude I'm just going to go do some ooze I'll be out in a second still fun

yeah still good still the best part so again if you just be okay it's just like it has to come I understand that through forces

that are out of your control you are now tied to this place and that's fine the forces out of your control, you are now tied to this place. The forces out of your control were me and Joel's after throwing you off a cliff. And for some reason, you're haunting this place. That's fine. But if you don't want me to call a priest to make you go to heaven,

then there are some rules to adhere. But I don't think I'm being unreasonable. But do you think that in... If I had a wolf boy, and I'm like, okay, wolf boy, you can run in the backyard, you can eat as many chickens as you want. It If I had a wolf boy, and I'm like, okay, wolf boy, you can run to the backyard, you can eat as many chickens as you want, but if you bite me, well, I'm going to call a vet.

And then you're going to get put down. Brand new scenario. Rest in peace, wolf boy. Would a vet put down a wolf boy? As a wolf, surely. If I brought in a tranquilized wolf boy as the wolf... I don't think the vet would put it down. Why not?

I don't know if the vet would find a farm or a zoo or whatever. Anyway, new scenario. What would a farm or a zoo do with a wolf boy? Then we put the wolf boy in the zoo? He's a wolf at the time. Yeah, yes. Then he becomes a boy and the zoo is shocked. Or the boy is like, I'm a boy and And the other wolves that are real wolves eat him.

My question is, that's true. You just that night it's sleepless. You're hoping the wolves kill the boy. Anyway, what if I just around your house started going, Ooh, and pushing over plates. As me as a human being. Okay. I'd Okay, but Jack, why are you doing this? Say I ignore you. Are you going to put me in jail for the rest of my life? I'm not going to put you in jail, but I'm going to ask you to leave. I might fire you. You'll lose your job.

Yeah. I'm just trying to think what the difference is. When I'm a ghost, it's okay to put me away forever. It's not. I'm not saying it is. Well, you were sending me to heaven. I was giving you the option. Can you have an affair when you die?

If you're a ghost, yes. Because till death do us part, death has parted you. Yeah, that's right. Interesting thing. So I think that maybe the same thing applies there. Like, do you lose your rights when you die? Well, see, that's the question. Because it seems like-

Marriage isn't a right. Well, actually, marriage rights. Maybe it is. You know what I mean, though? Like, there's a big difference between death doing us part and, you know, rights. Yeah, yeah. But it seems like when I'm a ghost, I have less rights than when I'm a human.

Correct. And now a quick word from our sponsors. Adam here, resident dungeon master to the stars. Did you know that myself and Jackson host a show here on Sandspants Radio where we create and show off homebrew content that we ourselves have created. It's called House Rules. And if you've ever struggled for making your own content,

then it may just be perfect for you. Some episodes will come in with stories, classes and abilities that we've already made and tell you about them so you can see where we've succeeded and failed. And sometimes we'll even make the content on air so you can follow along at home and make your own or even improve upon ours.

Head on down to sensepantsradio.com and sign up for a king-level subscription today to start listening. Well, why? Guys, come on! Why? What's come on. Why? What's going on here? Why changed?

I mean, other than I died. Okay. Yes, you have less rights, but if you were also being a nuisance in, like, as you were, the option would be like, you need to leave now or I'm going to be calling someone. I guess the only difference is you can forcibly remove me as a human being. Well, I can as well as a ghost. It just involves a priest. Yeah, but you send me away forever as a ghost. Yes.bly remove me as a human being. Well, I can as well as a ghost. It just involves a priest. Yeah, but you send me away forever as a ghost.

Yes. Yeah. But as a human, you don't. You just put me outside. Well, you can. Restraining order. Oh, that's true. That's true.

But with the ghostbusters, which is the point, they put them in a little prison for infinity. Yes. That's more like sending me to hell than heaven. Yes. Why didn't you go to heaven? What do you mean? See, I know I was being like, go to heaven. The good thing. Well, do you mean why didn't I go to heaven? What do you mean? See, I know I was being like, go to heaven, the good thing.

Well, do you mean why didn't I go to heaven? Because of my sins. So, yeah, but why do you have an issue with us bringing in a priest then? Because I don't want to go to hell. No, but the priest will forgive you or whatever. Yeah, well, that's one scenario. That's different, I guess, from the Ghostbusters scenario. Yeah, because they don't bring in a priest.

No, they put me in a box. They put you in a box. So, same situation. As a ghost, the Ghostbusters, you see it on TV, you can call them, you can put me in a box, I'm forever, I'm out of your hair, but I'm in a box. It's a prison. It's for infinity.

You doing it? No, well, I think it depends. I'm digging a hole, and I'm putting that box in the hole, and then I'm filling the hole. Do you know Ghostbusters are like, typically we don't give you the box? Do I, as Johnny ghostbuster watcher do i know that they're putting you in a box and then that's it or do i just think like like say if i have a big rat that's in my ceiling and i get up a a pest person to come in and capture the rat and take it away

i can be like oh they're gonna put it in a farm as opposed to like a beautiful rat farm. I don't think they're just going to lock it up and put it in a box and never mind. Or like, you know, brain that rat. They don't say, and I don't think it happens anywhere in the Ghostbusters movie, do they say what it's like in the box? So you don't know. We don't know. I would assume as, again,

Johnny Ghostbuster watcher, I'd be like, oh, that's the transport thing. They put the ghost in that and then they do something with it. But if you knew that I was just going to be in there for eternity... I would be like, I think ethically, no, this is wrong. Why can't we put them somewhere like a ghost farm

or find out what they want so they stop horning us or they're here for a reason, yeah? Then we have to coexist. So you're right. Nah. I'd be picketing with you as well. Ghost Jackson. Thank you. Pushed me off a cliff, but you came around to my side.

So I appreciate that. It's tough though because- I called these ghostbusters for a service to get rid of this ghost that was haunting me and that was great and they haunted me. But what they're doing to that ghost is not fair. Wait, were these ghosts dead people that have come back to life or are they demons?

We were still unclear about that. Well, because if they're demons then yeah no no no no keep them in the box yeah because this i think there's like three variations you've got actual dead people aka the titanic yeah then you've got demons aka zool and then i think you've also got like just creations that are caused by zool aka stay puff Puft Marshmallow Man. Yeah. What's Slimer? He could be a demon. Yeah, he could be a demon. I thought he was just a bus driver before. And a bus driver now. And then a bus driver now.

I tried to look into this whilst I was trying to get the different types of ghosts. All I could find is in the original script, he was called the Onion Head Ghost. Well, that's cool. He does look like an onion head. Well, then I guess the question, you've got to have different rules for each one. Well, yeah. Demon, whatever. Put him in a box. Send him to hell.

Who cares? Ghost of a person who was alive once. Fine. Stay puff, marshmallow man. I'm unclear. Can you really kill a manifestation? Is it a crime to kill a manifestation of... If you kill a bad idea.

Is that a crime? Does that extend? Can the listeners kill Plumbing the Death Star because we're all bad ideas? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They should. They should.

If Dan Aykroyd in those moments where they were like, don't think of anything scary, he thought of an episode of Plumbing the Death Star, award-winning podcast, and three giant usses came through New York and then popped into marshmallow goo or whatever happens at the end of Ghostbusters. I'd be watching that being like, what the fuck? Hey! No, fair enough. That's what I'd say.

I sold our likenesses. To Dan Aykroyd, the man. So he could think about them. For free. Yeah, he doesn't have to pay us to think of us. How much money did you get for it? Money. Typically, when you sell something, it's a trade of...

Did I say sell? I meant give. Damn it. Yeah, so the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man is an interesting question because they brought him to life. So they, in a way. Is strangling Pinocchio when he becomes a boy a crime? When he becomes a boy?

Yes. When he's a puppet? No. How did he become a crime? When he becomes a boy? Yes. When he's a puppet? No. How'd he become a boy? The Blue Fairy turns him into a boy. Wait, are you talking a real boy or do you mean a boy boy? I mean a real boy. When he's a real boy, you can't strangle him. When he's an alive

puppet, go nuts. What's the difference? When he's an alive puppet, he's a monster. He's a fucking nightmare, man. Jingling, jangling around. I'd kill him on sight. Your jingling, jangling motion was exactly how you walk and exist. It was spooky.

He's fucking scary, Pinocchio. So, well, what's the difference? I was talking about Stay Puft Marshmallow. Mon's got flesh and blood. So Stay Puft Marshmallow, because he's not flesh and blood. But none of the ghosts have flesh and blood. So aren't you team killing all ghosts? Well, I guess it's because-

Make up your goddamn mind. No, because if you go from human to ghost, that's different from going ghost to human. What? Sorry. How do you go from ghost to human? What if you go human to ghost to human? Well that's different again

No because Pinocchio goes from nothing To being alive He's not a real boy turned into a puppet He's a puppet turned into a real boy Ghost is a real person turned into a ghost Yeah I'm there

That's why I'm saying ghosts are fine I'm going back to the Mallow Boy. So I'm saying that the Marshmallow, he's just always a marshmallow. So the Mallow is an idea that comes to life. Pinocchio is a puppet that comes to life. If you're happy murdering the Mallow, you're happy murdering real boy Pinocchio. Yeah, cop that one. I think you could kill...

If you are fine with murdering the M mellow you should be okay strangling real boy pinocchio if the stay puffed marshmallow man got turned into a guy yeah you couldn't kill him like as in like a regular what if he's like a same size guy that's a problem but but i think he's got more rights at that point i think that's why we're here to decide. So if Stay Puft Marshmallow Man stays the same size and just becomes a guy, flesh and blood, that's... He's got rights now. What if he is a Stay Puft Marshmallow Man

and he's slowly transforming? How long does it take? Five minutes. Well, don't kill him while he's transforming, I guess. So if they look like Pinocchio and look like a human. Pinocchio and the ghosts are human.

Except when Pinocchio's a puppet. Well, Pinocchio is more like. And ghosts aren't human, they're ghosts. No, Pinocchio is more like the Mellow than he is like a ghost. No, but he's more like, when he's a human, he's more like the ghost. They're a spirit, not a ghost. They're a spirit, not a human. What are you talking about? Pinocchio is a puppet. He's more like the ghost. They're a spirit, not a ghost. They're a spirit, not a human. What are you talking about?

Pinocchio is a puppet. He's nothing. He's not alive. He's a pile of wood that gets turned into a figure. He's animate wood. Yeah. And then he becomes a real boy. Yes.

At which point he's real. A real boy. He's a real boy. Why? Because he's alive now. But how? What is the difference of that and the mellow becoming nothing and then something? If you cut him, does he not bleed?

If you cut the Mallow, does the Mallow not bleed? He bleeds Mallow. Yeah. It's still blood. Well, this is where I'm falling. This is my world view. Yeah. I just don't understand.

You are against killing Pinocchio as a real boy, and you're all for killing the Mallow, though. And that's why I don't understand. You can't kill the Mallow if he becomes a real boy and you're all for killing the Mallow though. And that's why I don't understand. You can't kill the Mallow if he becomes a real boy. Okay. Yeah. So if he was just a fleshy... If Dan Aykroyd instead of thinking of the Mallow boy, he was like, I'm just going to think of a real tall

guy. Yeah. And then that same thing. I probably would feel worse about killing him. But you'd still kill him. Well, I wouldn't. But it wouldn't be a crime? I don't know. Is it a crime to kill a 50-foot man that had just popped into existence? Yes, I think it is.

So is it a crime to kill a 50-foot man that's popped into existence? And is it a crime to kill a boy that has just popped into existence that was once wood? No, it is a crime to kill a boy that was once wood. Okay, it is a crime. Okay, now, is it a crime to kill a 50-foot Malone person that just popped into existence? That has the exact same feelings as if they were a 50-foot... Not a crime. Not obviously a crime.

I just don't know the difference. What is the difference between Pinocchio as a real boy and Pinocchio as a puppet? Pinocchio as a puppet cannot die. I think he can. Also, didn't you say you'd kill him? Yeah, I said I'd strangle him. You try.

But the mellow can die. Because you can't strangle him. You try. But the Mallow can die. Because you can't strangle wood. I did splinters. So what's the difference between Pinocchio as a puppet and Pinocchio as a boy? And what's the difference between the giant Mallow as a giant Mallow as a giant man? Well, Pinocchio and the Mallow are actually quite different. Because Pinocchio, I'll give you this. When he's a puppet, but an alive puppet, he's sort of a half-man.

Okay? I would say he's 50% human at that point. But the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man is never human. Not even close. He never becomes alive. He's never got the potential to be a human being. He's forever the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man, who shows very little cognition of what's happening to him.

He just walks around going, That's because he was just born! He's really a big baby. Pinocchio figures it out straight away. He's a smart baby. That's fair, he's a smart baby. In Ghostbusters, there's three types of ghosts. There's demons, ideas, and I guess ghosts.

Demons and ideas, whatever. We're all on the same page of braining a demon. That's fine. For some reason, the idea. Jackson's 50-50. 50-50. He's on the fence. He doesn't know.

It's hard to tell. I do it case by case. Braining the Stay Puft Mellow, 100% fine. Braining Stay Puft Mellow, but he's got human flesh. What if it's exactly that? What if it's a puzzler? That's a puzzler for Jack over there. If the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man-

I don't think it is a puzzler. I think he's very committed to his answer. Yeah, I think I've stayed pretty true to what I've said the whole time. If the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man was the size of a cork, and someone went and squished him how would you feel unhappy would that be worse than if he's killed when he's big if he was a little man and someone squished him how would you feel not good worse or better did i just see him pop into existence because i thought him you thought him and he turned up like that and then he was killed

shot with a gun i think all four scenarios are equally bad. I think it's only bad if he's a little guy. Would you kill the gingerbread man? Yes. So you'd kill the gingerbread man? Well, I'd eat him. I wouldn't. Well, see, Sam, it wouldn't.

So you're on my side then. Wait, what is your side? Have we not been discussing my side? So Jack's side is if it's human, then it's not okay. If it's human, it's human. If it's a human idea, it's human. If it's a non-human idea... Okay, what about a gingerbread man with human lips?

That's interesting. Spurge it, then kill it. I don't know what's going to happen to the gingerbread man. So I would stay out of it until I found out what that meant. Because if it's got human lips, then maybe it'll also get human features moments from now. Yeah, maybe it's very slowly, part by part, becoming a little guy. Okay, so the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man,

if he had popped into existence with human lips, you'd be like, don't kill it. I'd be like, let's wait and see. But if nothing changed, I'd be like, kill it, I don't care. Shoot it with a cannon. How long? I'd give it a day. One day.

If it's not growing more than human lips every one day, it's not growing human lips. What? It starts growing facial hair. Well, then I'd give it another day. Now we got something. There has to be a change every day, otherwise your team kill it. No, if there's a change within a day,

I'm like, well, something's happening. But if there's a change within a day i'm like well something's happening uh-huh but if there's no change i'm like we don't know what's coming next so let's not worry about it so don't worry about it meaning to kill it to kill it if you want to yeah if you want to but joel ducha would kill the gingerbread man which i would do he's a gingerbread man he's not a person but if you came out as a little boy would you kill him no what if you are the gingerbread man what if okay the gingerbread man comes and you kill him? No. What if you, the gingerbread man, what if, okay, the gingerbread man comes and you kill him and you squish it, it's got man like, it's got human guts and

human skeleton. Well, that's the same as the lips. But you've killed it. Well, that's, I didn't know. Yeah. I'm scared. But I didn't know. I feel bad. But I didn't, you know, I didn't know at that point. So you'd feel bad for that, but if you squish it, it was just gingerbread man all the way through?

Whatever, you guess? It's just gingerbread. So if the Stay Puft marshmallow, when they shot it and it was like, oh shit, a human heart. It bled. Yeah, I would be like, we don't know what's happening here. We thought this was a big marshmallow man. Actually, something totally different, way worse is going on. What if the marshmallow man, he popped into existence.

He's like, oh no. He's like, I know I've popped into existence, but I can feel, I can breathe. I know I'm not a human. I know I don't have that, but I am experiencing the world. I have a fear of death. Please don't kill me. I'm scared. Yeah.

Well, if we can somehow demonstrably prove it as a human soul, then. Well, there's no human soul here. It's vocalizing how terrified it is and that it's having an extra crisis. I would let the government know that if they killed it, I wouldn't mind. Dear the government, if you shot the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man, I would not care. Even with the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man expressing very human traits of fears. How do we know it's real? It's expressing this.

It's marshmallow, though. But you haven't cut it open. Well, we cut it open, then. Okay, me, as Joel Zammett here is telling me, Jackson, I'm afraid of dying. I don't want to die. Please don't shoot me. I know I'm a man.

I feel like I'm a man. I don't know. But you can't prove that right now. Unless you cut me. I didn't see you just pop into existence because Dan Aykroyd thought of you. That's true. I'm just saying it's complicated. That's all I'm saying.

You are very team dead. Well, if it's a monster, yeah, typically. That is typically how I tend to vibe. Yeah. What about you, Dusha? Because you seem to be somewhere in the middle of the two of us yeah because like there's certain things where it's apparent that doing a certain thing is okay so like stay puffed marshmallow man if i know that that's a fee if i'm in the clear like as in like have figured out why it's happened, I'm like, yeah, kill it.

It's just a threat. It's nothing. It's not real. But then even if at some point an idea, I guess, becomes real, and then that's where the problem happens. When does it become real? Human lip. No.

What about the Pinocchio situation? Well, I wouldn't kill Pinocchio as Pinocchio. Why not? Because too real. Okay. As in like as Pinocchio? Why not? Because too real. Okay. As in like as the boy or as the puppet? Puppet. So you're not killing that puppet.

Why is he too real? That's interesting. Because I feel like the idea has become real. Okay, and when was he not real? When he was just a log? Yeah, when he was just a log. I would have no issue. You can't murder a log.

Before, maybe it's sentience. Okay. Because like Stay Posh Marshmallow Man has a sentience of a cow. It's moon. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if the Stay Posh Marshmallow was like, hey, New York, please don't hurt me. You'd be like, well, all right, deal. We won't hurt you.

Stop stomping on all of our citizens and killing us. Stand still. We'll get some helicopters, pick you up, drop you in the sea or whatever. Say puff marshmallow man's going to die when it rains anyway. He's made of marshmallow. Here's a question, though. Marshmallows sometimes have like a bit of a- A bit of a layer, a bit of a dust layer.

That's true. No, but like, and the outside's a bit harder. So maybe rain wouldn't affect it. Maybe he'd be all right. Soggy, but fine. Well, with the gingerbread man. Gingerbread man is talking, but he just says the same thing again and again and again. What does he say? He says, run, run as fast as you can. You can't catch me. I'm the gingerbread man. Gingerbread man is talking, but he just says the same thing again and again and again. What does he say?

He says, run, run as fast as you can. You can't catch me. I'm the gingerbread man. That's the first thing he's saying when he gets out. You caught him? What doesn't happen? We don't know what it's... No, because if he's with me, run, run as fast as you can.

Because if he just runs away, then he's not my problem. I don't need to answer that. Because he runs away and you're like, ah! He's like, well, you catch him. Does the gingerbread man say anything else? Not that I can recall. From memory, the gingerbread man comes to life. He says, run, run as fast as you can.

You can't catch me. I'm the gingerbread man. He's chased. He encounters someone else. He says it again, again, and again, and again. And he meets a fox. And the fox is like, yeah, I'll take you across the river. Who gives a shit?

And the gingerbread man gets on his back, and then the fox eats him. So what was the gingerbread man? And if he died who cares i guess i just let him go yeah knowing his faith the gingerbread man is showing levels of sentience yeah because it's showing that it's like you know i have a he's got a he's he's afraid clearly yeah yeah he knows to talk to things so that's something What about if the gingerbread man loses it? It's got a fear of death Then you eat it?

Why not? It's wrecked If a meat pie came to life Did you piss then turn back into a pie? Would you eat it? Because I'd have seen its little pie wiener Is that a pie wiener? Oh, my God.

Yuck. And then it retracted. It's just a regular pie. Did anyone else see that? I hate my lunch today. Like an oyster. Am I getting the gingerbread nose enough not to cross water? Yeah.

So where do you fall? Can you kill the gingerbread man? I originally said yes, but now I'm thinking no. It's like killing a goldfish at that point. Yeah. Wait, when? Because you're like, oh, it's like an animal. Yeah.

Yeah. So he was fine. I mean, well, no, I'm not going to kill a goldfish. Well, yeah, but you'll eat a cow. Yeah, good point. And a gingerbread man is nothing if not a little cow with two legs. That's true. A gingerbread man, like a cow, has been bred for deliciousness.

Yeah. So you don't know anything. I think it's just complicated. That's all. That's all I'm saying. I'm not killing a cow, though. You're not. Yeah.

Well, let me do it. Going back to the ghost situation in New York. Yeah. So obviously there's different levels, and therefore it gets very, very complicated. But is it safe to say that locking them in a little box together is a bad call? Is it one ghost per box? And do they empty it into a big thing?

Yeah. Do they empty it into the East river? Tip the ghosts out. Flush them. Yeah. Well, yeah, they,

they chuck it into a thing, don't they? Yeah, I think so. I used to know like a, can I imagine like a big, like vortex? If we can,

if we can invent ghost realm. Yeah. Basically heaven. Yeah. If we can invent heaven. Or tap into ghost realm where we can put the ghosts into that. Why would we put the bad ghosts, Joel Zahn? Yeah, we need to put somewhere for them that would be unpleasant.

Let's invent bad heaven. Bevan. Bevan. We've got heaven and Bevan. I'm going to send you to Bevan. Did you say heaven? Wait, what did you say? I'm starting to think he didn't say heaven at all.

So are these ghosts, are they bad ghosts or were they bad people that turn into bad ghosts? And who is... Yeah, can a good person turn into a bad ghost and vice versa? And also, are the ghostbusters deciding? If I'm going around your house being like, ooh, doing a little oohs, and he goes, point to Bevan.

I'm saying him to Bevan. I'm like, what was that? Did you say heaven? Oh, no. He said Bevan. First adding him to Bevan. I'm like, what was that? Did you say heaven? Oh, no. He said Bevan. Damn. This is like hell. I think, yeah, putting ghosts, be they bad or a nuisance or whatever,

in a little box, I think is, yeah. I think we can agree. That's inhumane. It's very inhumane. And, again, what do the ghosts do apart from drive a bus, haunt a library, go for a jog? I mean, that's the kind of thing where you're like, well, they finish their trip from England to New York.

Again, like why? But then what? What do the ghosts do then? Yeah, what are they doing then? Like does the Titanic pull up and then go to heaven? Like does it just stop at the dock and then just go straight up? I did it. There's no boat heaven then just go straight up? I did it. There's no boat heaven.

We don't know where to send it. Well, boat heaven is also Bevan, but it's... It's good Bevan. Sending you to good Bevan. What? Oh, it's just the sea. Yeah, well, because that's a good point. So say the Ghostbusters don't ever, they're never created, okay?

But the ghosts come back. And all of a sudden they're just, say I died, but I couldn't talk to you. And I was just repeating, I would come in, you'd see my spirit, come in, sit down at the microphone and start wordlessly going, mop, mop, mop, mop, mop, talking away. It would take me three to four months to notice. Mop, mop, mop, mop, mop, mop, mop, mop. Yeah, classic Jackson.

I'm not even hearing him. So, yeah, what do you do? Do you just work around me? Do you get the new Jackson to sit in my chair? I think it would just be like, again, depends how much these ghosts impede on your day-to-day life. It's kind of those things where it'd like, you know, it'd be like dust in the air, as it were.

It's just there, whatever. I don't care. Maybe it makes me sneeze. Maybe whatever. Maybe I make you sneeze with my spirit. If I walk through, I'm like, oh, it's a bit chilly. Or maybe warm. Wow, moist. Don't sit in that chair. Jackson's there. It's cold. He's mopping. Mop, mop, mop, mop, mop, mop.

I guess I treat you like an old dying cat that you should take care of. But you're like, don't worry about it. They're fine. They're just doing it. This is their routine. Getting close to death. They're doing the thing that they do. He'll mop enough, and then eventually he'll go to heaven or bevan or good bevan.

Wherever he ends up. It doesn't matter. My money's on good bevan. Yeah. And it's... Titanic. All the famous matter. My money's on good, definitely. Yeah. And it's... Titanic. All the famous boats. The Australia?

What was the one that won the America Cup? I don't know. You know that one? The famous Australian boat? Not that famous. Not pretty famous. You don't remember his name? No, I don't remember his name.

You don't remember? Remember when the politician... Lionheart or some shit. A Medusa. Yeah, but it was a famous Australian moment where Australia won

that race, that boat race that no one cares about except that time when we won it and then our Prime Minister was like... The way you're describing this,

it makes it sound like no one... Then the Prime Minister was like, anyone who's a boss that fires the person for coming in for not coming into work

today is a bum. No, I don't remember. Is that where I'm going though? Yeah, you're going to... Good Bevan. Yeah, you're going with that boat. The boat whom time forgot. Titanic.

Yeah. Challenger ship. New question is, do I drown? You're a ghost. He died in Good Bevan. We haven't had that before. So, I don't know. I think as a ghost and if you weren't that interfering with our day-to-day

life, it'd be a nice reminder of the friend that I once knew. And look at him going there mupping and hopefully one day I will be mupping next to him. I'd move out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And people would be like, hey, is there anything wrong with this house? I'd be like, no. Not at all.

If the ghosts were real and that happened, I think that'd be kind of a nice way to, like, kind of like a reminder of, say, like, your loved ones. Friends you had, yeah, absolutely. But then your house will get full eventually. Oh, yeah, chockers. And then Earth will get full. And it'll be all ghosts. It'll be freezing. Are ghosts cold? That's a question for another day.

Look, it isn't ethical to bust ghosts. Things that you've brought into life by your own cognition that you've brained into existence. A little more complicated, but kill all demons. Kill all demons is fine. Don't box a ghost. And maybe, look, depends which.

I'm saying don't brain your ideas. Jack's saying only brain your ideas if they're not human. Yeah. You can set Pinocchio on fire. That's okay with me. But as a real boy, no. If Jackson starts haunting your house, simply move house. And on that

note, I've been Joel. I've been Jackson. And I've been Joel. I ain't afraid of no ghosts. I unironically believe in Sasquatch. I spend too much time reading about unsolved crime, and I've got no podcast where I can discuss any of this. Oh, wait, shit, yes, I do. If you head to sanspantsradio.com forward slash plus

for as little as five buckaroonies a month, you gain access to Jackson Bailey's Spooks America, the show where I try to explain an unsolved mystery or a monster sighting or a ghost story or whatever to the rest of Sans Pants Radio who do not care or listen. Once again, that's sanspantsradio.com forward slash plus to gain access to Jackson Bailey's Spooks America today.