Plumbing the Death Star - Whose Side Are You on in the Civil War (Comics)?

Episode Date: April 10, 2016

In which our heroes attempt to cope with the fallout of a superhero fuelled tragedy, decide registering superheroes is the way to go but then go and accidentally clone Thor as they decide whose side they're on in the Civil War (comics). They discuss the benefits of a superhero pension plan, the many cosmic welches of Dr. Strange, and shoot Captain America with a time gun. Jackson would happily forgive Rhino, Duscher is pro-Cap, and Zammit just wishes Tony didn't go so off the rails so quickly. So overreact pretty intensely, unmask Peter Parker and then throw all your problems in the Negative Zone. It just works.Want to help fund a better superhero task force? Head to http://www.patreon.com/sanspantsradio and for as little as $1 a month, we'll try and ensure everyone maintains their civil liberties.Hankering for some sweet geeky loot every month? Do us a favour and go to http://www.geekfuel.com/sanspants and sign up to receive your (possible) Mighty Mouse today! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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Patrick Asteman, Jacob McCrowan, Joel Craig, Jason Morning, Rachel Wake, You guys, you are all powerful lizards. Great big Tyrannosaurus Rexes. Thunder lizards, if you will. Let no comment or harsh words foul you. Remember, it's okay to say today was a bust but tomorrow will be better and and also go listen to the usual podcast it's great now enjoy the show hey everybody and welcome to this week's episode of plumbing the death star we ask important questions like whose side are you on in the Civil War? In brackets, comics.

Alright, so just to set the scene. Give a little refresher. Because the Civil War, it's like, what the hell is that? What's a Civil War? It's Captain America versus Iron Man. I'll probably see that in the film. We don't know what it's about. But in the comics, it's all about superhero registration because some lad named nitro uh he was getting attacked by a bunch of other lads called the the new warriors i think okay so no worries yes being attacked by a bunch of low

level superheroes was like hey nitro fuck you i'm gonna you. Nitro's like, hey, you know what? My power is exploding. And then he blew up a school. And then he did blow up a school. So it was a bit of like, oh. And it was on national TV because the New Warriors or whatever they're called were filming a reality TV show. That is correct.

So it was the city of Stanford. He blew up a school, about 900-odd dead kids for a TV show. He blew up a school, about 900-odd dead kids for a TV show. Jesus. And so one of the mothers of the dead children was like, well, something's fucked at the funeral, like spat on Tony Stark's face and was like, something has to happen.

And then it was like, yeah, something has to happen because there was like superhumans and humans and the tensions were pretty rough. Like Johnny Storm gets glassed at one point. It was pretty super humans and humans and the tensions were pretty rough. Like Johnny Storm gets a glass at one point. It's pretty fucking rad. Shit is raw. So they're like, all right, cool. We need to do something. Super Human Registration Act.

Masks are a thing of the past. Cool. We need some sort of transparency. So not only are we going to train people, but we're going to make it highly illegal to be a superhero so let's do that and Captain America's like freedom, masks are a tradition and Wasp is like but man we get a pension plan

and like an annual vacation and then Luke Cage's like that's ridiculous we don't do it for the money and shit like that but Wasp's like no it's still pension, paid vacation. Yeah, no, no. And Iron Man's like, well, we need people who are better trained and accountable.

So that's pretty good. Well, I mean. So really, the argument for me is like, well, if you're arguing against superhuman people being properly trained and also paid for that, it's pretty good. Yeah. Like from the outset i like from the outset like from the off the bat i'm like tony seems like he knows what he's doing and and so what happened really is that maybe look i think they went into a bit maybe a bit too harsh because they're like

maria hill who was then um heading shield yeah she was like this is gonna happen um so cat america we want you on side camera he's like no freedom and then they just draw guns on him and then they make it pretty bad and then when like at midnight when it's like you either register before midnight yeah uh also there's going to be a grace period but like that's gonna be before that midnight and if you don't register we will hunt you down yeah so then if they see anyone becoming like a costume superhero they got these guys shield agents in like mech suits to sort of come down and fuck everyone else so many different ways uh but i reckon that's a that's a that's a different discussion okay um so yeah so whose side are you well i mean off the bat like

tony stark like i think registering superheroes is a good idea, like I'm sure I've expressed in the past. I think that knowing where the superheroes are, and maybe even what powers they have, is really beneficial for, not just the people, like, also just other superheroes around the way. And this is, I think they go to the mutants, and this is when the mutants are having that 198 problem

of being like, we've been fucked on, so we're gonna stay out of this. So, like, the mutants are just not an issue. They're just like fucked on so we're gonna stay out of this so like the mutants are just barely not an issue they're just like look we're doing our own thing because we've got our own issues to just like to sort out right now so like oops this is this is like an internal thing for we need to kind of like find ourselves of who we really are as mutants and so everyone's like fair enough and even like i think it's like dr strange like what are you doing and he's just like there's a there's a different thing with strange i think it was like Dr. Strange, like, what are you doing? And he's just like, there's a different thing with Strange.

I think he was like... Dr. Strange can always pull that excuse, though. He's like a post-human hoping to seek a compromise. Dr. Strange is so good. Like, Dr. Strange, what are you doing? He's like, there's some shit in the astro... I gotta fucking get to the astroplane. Fucking Dr. Welch's again.

So yeah, within 24 hours of the registration act They just start hunting people down Patriot, who looks like Cap America, but he was the son Of the original Cap America Like the black Cap America He was an unregistered miner And he tried to stop a robbery

And they just fucking go to the extreme They just chuck down all these people And really it's a waste of resources. Do they kill any here? I mean, I know there's one big death, Captain America. Yes, at the very end. But no, they kill... The first superhuman death is by Black Goliath.

What does he do? Dies. He's like the normal Goliath, as in Ant-Man, whose persona was to be... Giant man.Man and then Goliath at one point. But he's black. Great. Good one, gang. He killed himself.

No, he called himself Black Goliath. So all the comic book artists called him Black Goliath. Anyway. Ten out of ten. No. See, I agree with it in theory, but then Tony Stark, because he's got Mr. Fantastic, Dr. Fantastic on his side. And they just go off the fucking rails almost instantaneously.

It's good as. Okay, so pretty much what happens is Tony Stark, it's funny if I just explain it and don't really give you any context. Pretty much what happens is Tony Stark's like, this is a good idea, something happens, and then he's just like do you know what's a better idea? killing all

no that's not what happens at all kill all the superheroes? okay basically he's like alright register that's good and then he's like alright but we need a big hit on our side Thor? what's happened to Thor? everyone's like I think Ragnarok happened so Thor's off dealing with that bullshit

so him and Hank Pym and Dr. Fantastic are like, I've got some hair of Thor. Clone Thor. Clone Thor. Make it a clone cyborg. They're like, good. Deal. Let's do that.

Good. They do that. But this is like a Thor with no human emotion. And he goes and kills all the suits? No, just one. Black Goliath? Yeah. So basically, they're having this giant fight,

and no one's really winning, because if Connor Powell was an equal, whatever. And then they release the claw, which is like a cloned Thor, the claw. Classic. They release Thor, and Thor's like, none of this! And with his stupid Asgardian or cloned Asgardian head,

just like like fuck you lightning straight through Bill Forrester I think his name was which is Black Goliath and everyone's like whoa just time out except Tony who's like nah good nah even he's like nah

dead tall superiors fuck Tony Stark I'm arguing with the wrong person even they're like shit shut him down shut down, shut him down, shut him down. And then they start drilling Claw's head and be like, what did we do wrong? So that happened. And then they're like, you know what, villains, if you just want to register, we'll forgive all your crimes. That's not a problem as well.

Wait, well, what are the, you know, the crimes committed by, like, Marvel villains are often just, like, robbery or murder and shit. Like... That's true. They're, like, not that big a deal. They're not that big. I mean, murder's pretty big.

Murder's not great. But, like, you know, whatever. If somebody was like, hey, do you want to forgive Rhino? I'd be like, whatever. He doesn't seem like he knows what he's doing. And so there's a few things, like, they want to make a super police force

covering all 50 states or something like that I'm down for that that sounds great at least having an element of the police force be superhero related

that's a good idea and then and then and then they do something real dumb which is uh something they called

plan 42 cool uh and that was to make a super prison in the negative zone where they just, when they captured unregistered superheroes or villains, they just chuffed them into there. Did they register them first?

Nope. They just chuffed them into the negative zone. That's not really helping. It really, really improves their thinking and stuff, though. It really improves their concentration. No, no. They thinking and stuff, though. It really improves their concentration. No, no. They're just there. It's...

No, because Tony Stark, even though he doesn't actually be like, all superheroes should die, he does get a bit like your mate, Jackson. Oh, they also, with the bad guys, they chip, tag, and microchip microscopic nanobots into the bad guys as well. What are the nanobots capable of?

Because I might be on board for this idea. I think they're shutting them down. Yeah, that's great. I think so too. That's fine. In fact, I would happily be like, what, you're a supervillain? Okay, we'll do that to you.

Back into the public. That's fine. Surely that doesn't work on all of them though. Like my mate Rhino again. I'd be more worried about like dr doom he's a ruler of a country yeah he's a sovereign dignitary we can't hassle dr doom we can't that's the un's problem so like there's some really good ideas that i think they have that he's kind of overboard but i i am fully on at least initially tony stark's side to be i'm very pro

mutant i don't really see any superhuman registration any downside to not like to registering them I can't really see Captain America's perspective other than like because these aren't

these aren't mutants these aren't people who are born this way no these are just people who have superpowers these are people who have superpowers by various reasons what is the downside well let's try and think about it

you know in a good fucking debate you gotta try and think about it from the opposition side I am firmly Captain America in in this dance all right 100 because you know what happens uh it's the same reason why communism doesn't work in reality reality yeah because it's a good idea in theory but you're still just giving because all that this is doing is giving tony stark all the power because he's registering it but then he's the face of it, so they're more

like... If Tony Stark fucks up, which he does, a man dies because of his actions, does Tony Stark go to the Negative Zone prison? No. No. That's a pretty good point, actually. But this is like, again, it's... No, because Captain America probably goes too anti it straight away,

but if I was Captain America, I'd be paranoid as fuck. I'd be like I'll register but I do not like this. I'd be ready for things to just go fucked straight off the bat. I would treat it more as in because look I will agree that Tony Stark has some very radical

ideas that go a little bit too extreme. And also it's Tony Stark. You don't want him. If it was like Thor maybe because he doesn't really want Thor can pick up the hammer because he's like a good man. Where Tony Stark, like, you don't want him... If it was, like, Thor, maybe, because he doesn't really want... Thor can pick up the hammer because he's, like, a good man. Tony Stark ain't got no magic fucking ruling or anything that says... Yeah, Tony Stark's kind of a human shit. But if we go from the idea...

He's a man poop. He is a man poop, let's be honest. Like, if it was War Machine, I could probably get behind it. Also, he makes Peter Parker unmask as well. Yeah, that's fine. Who kills Captain America? Crossbones. Well, no, sorry.

No, Sharon Carter. Brainwashed by Dr. Facetious? Why? Just as a goof? A bit of a laugh? I can't remember. Wow, it's real ridiculous. Because it's really convoluted, isn't it?

Okay, so there's no good reason for it. Sharon Carter doesn't shoot him. He shoots him with a time gun. Oh, it looks like a real gun at first. Amazing. Love it. because it's really convoluted isn't it so there's no good reason for it it's nobody's fault it looks like a real gun at first and later on it's like no he's not dead it's a time gun he's in the negatives that's some dumb shit but the reason why it ends up working

in quotation marks and they do go through with the 50 state initiative and all that kind of stuff is because when they have this giant battle Cloak from Cloak and Dagger, you can teleport everyone, just grabs Maul and teleports him to the middle of the fucking city and they're fighting and there's mass destruction.

Good on Cloak, you idiot. And fucking Captain America's like, oh, I get it now. Everyone just surrender, stop, we're fucking up. So Captain America gets turned around. I think so, and he gets arrested. But the problem, I i think it's less about you know tony stark kind of goes off the rails as i keep saying because he does but initial the

initial idea of training superheroes uh and treating them more like cops because look if a cop does something in on duty and you know accidentally does something, hopefully... There we go. Hopefully, there is due course. Repercussions. Yes. History and evidence is definitely on the side of... Unless we're in America, then, like, hey, if you're not white, soz, I guess. Just coke?

Whoopsie daisies. Yeah. But generally, you'd want them to hold to a higher standard which is what superheroes should do anyway so i i don't think what they're doing is idealistic and it was never gonna work it's very idealistic but it's also idealistic of what um super doing anyway because i think the biggest problem of it is that wasn't so much about the registration it was about i have a secret identity for a reason and we'll take spider-man as a good example, to be like, I covered who my identity was because I don't want my villains to attack my family.

Yeah, but I think we've proven, I think, in an episode, that that doesn't really work for Spider-Man. Like, as in, his mask doesn't really help him, no. No, exactly. But the thing is, if he unmasks himself, everyone knows he's Peter Parker, everyone knows Mary Jane and May Parker are his grandma and wife and whatnot. It's like, okay, at least then,

for example, if he's working for the government, the government can be like, we'll protect them and make sure that we have people who are on the lookout at all times for them. Okay, who would you trust more? Or like what they did when he actually unmasked was I'm going to move Aunt May and Mary Jane

into the Avengers Tower, but then when he goes rogue, bad things happen. Plus, also, I don't have to relocate my family just because I've registered. That's fucking rough. And also... Aunt May loved her house. Also, how can the government protect you from supervillains?

Yeah, like the shield or whatever might say that will put somebody there to protect Aunt May, but fucking... Two guys with two guns is not gonna take on fucking Rhino no because if it's the 50 state initiative or that kind of stuff where you have super trained individuals under your banner

you would then really you're just causing the same problem you would have people looking after them who are probably of equal power but I mean like if the Rhino comes but then why? also they have the shield agents who are in these sort of mech suits were probably of equal power. But I mean like if the rhino comes. But then why? I don't know why I'm such a fucking rhino trained at the moment. Also, you know

again, they have the shield agents who are in these sort of mech suits. Yeah, no, no, but like the problem. So you want to put superheroes outside another superhero's family's house. No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm saying we can at least have that's what their argument was. Which is like if I am

unmasked or if I'm people who know I am they're going to go after my family. Like, well, if we know that's the case, we're going to put some early security. It's like being a cop's family. No, but it's not because, again, cops just have a gun. They don't have, like, lasers. No, if a cop pisses off, say, like, a mob family or a mob boss, they're going to be like, I'm going to fuck up your family. But I think there's still a difference between a mob boss and, like, Green Goblin.

If you think about it, the destruction caused by Green Goblin versus some shield guys, it's not going to even make it really worthwhile for Aunt May to live. Maybe I'm coming around Captain America's side. And also, because think about it, though. Green Goblin comes up. Green Globin. Green Goblin comes up.

Oh, Green Goblin, everyone. Green Goblin. Ready to Green Goblin fucking. I'm going to give you a Green Goblin. Gross. Oh, Green Goblin, everyone. Green Goblin. Red-headed Green Goblin. I'm going to give you a Green Goblin. Gross. I hate it. Yeah, like comes up to fuck up Aunt May. Who would you prefer to protect, Aunt May?

The man who's been fighting Green Goblin for like 10 years at this point? Or fucking like Iron Man, a man that has probably never really met him. Iron Man's probably a bad example because I'm sure they've fought before. Not even Iron Man. Like Aladdin in a mech suit. I just don't think... It's not like Spider-Man would be unaware. Then what's the point? If somebody's going to attack Aunt May anyway, which

they do all the time. It's kind of like... It's not mutually exclusive. The thing is, Spider-Man could be fighting Green Goblin and he's pressing a-man could be fighting green goblin then he's like pressing a button be like fucking help me out with this cunt then you have like say luke cage and iron fist and other people coming down to be like you know miss marvel who's basically just a sweet invulnerable lass and she can expect oh punch him in the face under arrest so instead i see in

an idealistic world where everyone is perfect and also the Avengers card and everyone is good. That's what Spider-Man has anyway. He's got the Avengers card. He can just press the Avengers button and people like know this is a little emergency.

I think what you need instead is don't use the negative zone as a prison. Be like, oh, are you villains and heroes that need to fight? Here's a little card.

You can go into the negative zone by pressing it. Duke it out there. Leave us alone. And when you've sorted your petty bullshit out, can go into the negative zone by pressing it duke it out there leave us alone and when you've sorted your petty bullshit out pop back into the world villains will not agree to that because they like chaos and destruction usually they're trying i don't think when green goblin is like blowing up a building he's like good that was part of the plan he's like i don't care but like whatever funny though would it be like little discs yeah or something that like it's not the spider tracer that spider-man has like that you throw on someone

you send him straight to the negative zone like blink there you go off they go that'd be better and then you just chill in the negative zone for a bit

we'll come and get you cool down take a chill sit for a while it's like a 10 minute thing so it comes back and it's like where was I

that was horrible see I started off on Tony's side and I do like the idea of registering mutants because I like the idea superheroes superheroes

not mutants powered folk because look registering mutants because I like the idea superheroes, not mutants powered folk, because look registering mutants is an issue, it's a hassle but it's a whole other kettle of fish does Iron Man have to register? of course, why? he's not powered but he's Iron Man, he's a superhero he's using

there's a man in a big dump basically the guy who put himself in an armoured tractor would he have to register of course do the do the shield soldiers and max suits have to register good question good fucking question mate i think it's more if you want to dress up like a superhero because this is a world where it's like if you have powers you put on some spandex and you go and fight crime so it's like if you want to fight crime you need to register as a crime fighter and we need to make sure you're properly trained whereas if you have superpowers this happens what

um firestar does she's like i'm not registering fuck this i'm not going to use my powers to fight crime i'm just going to live a normal life and everyone's like sick but it's like patriot who is like no i'm going to keep dressing up like my Patriot persona and stop crime and stop a robbery and that kind of stuff because that's what I want to do

but I don't want to register I don't want the man telling me who to take down and stuff like that that's who they're going after it's less about you can't use your powers it's more

if you are using your powers no but see even Firestar she's the one who lived a normal life yeah nah still register no no I'm so on board for registering her as well.

No. Just because I know, if I live in the world of superheroes. But this isn't about registering so we know where they are. This is about registering to fight. I'm not even talking about knowing where we know we are. I just know that if I live in a world of superheroes, okay, this isn't going to get Hitler-y. Okay.

I promise. My Hitler detector is through the roof right now. Mine is pinging. Mine is just pinging. I just know that I live in a world of superheroes, and I know the way superheroes act, okay? Because I've lived in this world my whole life. And I know that you'll hear in the news,

oh, fucking so-and-so has decided to live a normal life. This person's retiring. That person's retiring. I know eventually, and this is because this is a convention in comics, but clearly that means it's a convention in the real world. They'll act up again. They'll rise up again.

Something from their past will come back. They'll have to fight again. And if that's happening, I want them to be registered. Speaking of funny things that happen from their past, I'm pretty sure Firestar used to have like a horse and that like Emma Frost may have killed it. Just to kind of fuck with Firestar's life. It's really funny to imagine Firestar just like, I don't know,

brushing her teeth before bed and she's just like, wait. Didn't I have a horse? What happened to my horse? Who the fuck is my horse? Just like a clearly magic horse in a stable somewhere. Everything must be a normal fucking horse. That's so funny. I get what you're saying, but it's kind of like,

if you want to fight crime. Yeah, which I think she will again. And then if she does, then she goes and registers like, I want to fight crime. Because it's kind of like, all right, cool if you want to fight crime yeah which i think she will again and then if she does then she goes and registers like i want to fight crime because kind of like all right cool you want to fight crime um all right sweet go and get registered go under like a little intensive programming training whatever it's kind of like which i think what should happen in our world it's like if you want to drive a car do a defensive driving course yes like make that mandatory because we really should do that as a person who hasn't done that but i think you know it's a really good thing to do as a person

who has done it i've crashed my car before all right it's good no defensive driving is all right anyway i'm still the same sort of thing which is like because it's not like we're registering you to work at what you are it's not registering you to force you to do things you don't want to do. It's like, if you want to raise arms up against villainy and up against criminals, that's cool. We like the cut of your jib. But you need to register with us to make sure it's all sanctioned and that you actually know what you're doing.

Because the giant problem with fucking the new Warriors is because Speedball was trying to play up to the cameras. actually know what you're doing because a giant problem with fucking um the new warriors it was because speedball was like trying to play up to the cameras and fucking speedballs a sick name for superhero and it was kind of like he playing up to the cameras being like watch what i can do and showing blatant disregard to his surroundings and was simply doing shit for ratings and because it looked cool and that kind of stuff and And due to that, caused the death of 900 students and teachers. But still, with the Firestar thing, you're saying when she decides to fight crime again, she can register again. But can I bring The Incredibles, the Pixar film, as evidence?

Okay. So in that film, everybody's forced to retire. That happens. Superheroes become outlawed within the world of the incredibles and even though he's like look mr incredible's like i'm dumb i ain't gonna fucking wait what causes that mr incredible fucks up doesn't know a guy it's real dark a guy's trying to commit suicide and mission incredible saves the day and the guy's like fuck you my back, no that's right he cripples his back and then Mr. Incredible gets sued and it goes through, that's right

and it becomes like this big worldwide thing where they're like why superheroes which hey, I'm on board if superheroes can be held accountable for damages like that then it's too dangerous to be a superhero it's too expensive and this is the thing, it's like not only are you being trained though but you're also being held accountable but Mr. Incredible still goes out and fights crime on the sneaky yeah and if firestar

i'm not saying she definitely will but if there's the potential for that i just like to know that she's still accountable because if you're like look you're living a normal life so i'm not registering and you're not paying attention to you and the firestar goes out and starts finding crime on the dl then people would find that out and have to do an investigation. And then she could be fined and charged, which is something I don't think they should be doing. Just chuck them straight into the negative zone. Hey, question.

Why do people fight crime? Jollies. They want to get them off. And everyone fights different styles of crime, like Spider-Man. He fights crooks and also animal man yeah spider-man spider-man science spider-man fights old man like spider-man usually fights like tries to stop petty crime and clean up the streets iron man fights people that want to fight iron man yep and then you've got fights anybody hulk's angry fights tanks gods. Thor fights gods. Yeah, what's your point? My point is

if you register, you lose that choice. Like, there's no motivation to do any of those things because you're not going to... It's like, why do you become a cop? But that's the thing. When you become a cop, it's to fight crime. Yeah. Where superheroes aren't becoming superheroes to fight all crime. Now that is a good point. Like, they all have personal

vendettas or personal motives for doing it. That's why it's a vigilante justice. And that's a bad thing to, I guess, well, things I wouldn't necessarily call a lot of the Marvel heroes vigilantes. Whereas Batman, I kind of would. Weirdly. Batman. Spider-Man's definitely a vigilante. Yeah.

Definitely. Spider-Man is vigilante 101. He's classic. So is Daredevil. And the thing is, and also, because any of the people that... Actually, that's the same. Like, Daredevil wants the thing is and also because any of the people it's actually it's the same like Daredevil wants to

clean up Hell's Kitchen yeah then we give you the Hell's Kitchen beat but they mightn't well then then you're gonna get bogged down in the bureaucracy

of it all and that's Daredevil's gonna be like I guess I have to clean up fucking Seattle yeah exactly don't you care about Hell's Kitchen

he's like well I mean I do but I guess I'll do Seattle again it's this kind of idea of like well yeah I mean you kind of start thinking more globally

but everyone has motivations for being a superhero and you're taking those motivations away not really it's more like do good no but no that's not why

superheroes are actually fighting crime superheroes are petty as fuck yeah of course then stop being goddamn superhero I agree you should be the

that was my argument you should not be goddamn you should not be that fucking petty If you're like I need you to stop a fucking mugger in Seattle Not in Hell's Kitchen no thank you Get the fuck off my team That's not what they're doing That's what he's arguing

My argument is that I'm not saying that they That's not necessarily They would probably still do what you wanted them to do But that's not why they became a superhero. And then they can retire and do whatever else they want to do. No, they can't, because they retire, and then they do whatever they want to do,

and then you put them in jail. Yeah, because what they're doing is being a vigilante. You just said they're not vigilantes. In my head, it was kind of like, we don't associate vigilantism with Marvel. Why is that? They are all vigilantes. Which is a crime in our world.

Well, no. It sure is. Avengers aren't. Yeah, Avengers technically aren't. They're more like a global police force and avengers is different but also they have their own event this is dumb this is so stupid the avengers oh i'm so angry the avengers shouldn't have to register they work for shield and shield a part of the government they already have registered exactly that's the point of the avengers they're so so thor is like i've registered and they're like sick thor you have arizona but then sort that out and he's like okay and then

loki is like hey i'm fucking up asgard he's like i would love to cough honestly i would but arizona is in a pretty bad way registration sword there's so many flaws i hate it so much because they have the 50 state initiative which is kind of like look your whole each state gets a group of superhero teams to sort of work out the problem that's also bad

because you don't just pair up random superheroes well granted it was pretty bad because half of them were Skrulls on the video

but I think everything is Skrulls let's just ignore that but it's I get what you're trying to say I get what you're trying to say.

Which is like, if you become a superhero to clean up Hell's Kitchen, then they put you on the beat to whatever. I mean, yeah, that's frustrating. But at the same time... Not even that. You should be... But superheroes are not... Even though they are presented in the comics,

and the idea of a superhero is that you are this... You do good. You do good. And you are... What's the fucking word? Altruistic. Yeah. You are there to fight crime no superhero actually is

they'd just become cops if they wanted to exactly Spider-Man doesn't fight crime in New York because he's like it's good and I want to be a good person

Spider-Man fights crime because he's like crime happens and I have the power to stop crime and with great power comes great responsibility so how about this?

It'd be like, all right, you do the same beat you normally do. You do your rounds. You do your, what do they call them? Hey, Zamit, you're a university teacher sometimes. You're going to New Zealand. Ems is staying here. All right. Bye.

All right. Sick. Sweet. I'm so glad he's gone. What are my benefits? Nothing. You're working at a university Am I getting paid?

But the same as you would get paid if you worked in Melbourne Yeah right, that's what you do a lot of the time Yeah, university professor was probably a bad choice Fucking, you're a Uber driver Yeah You're the Uber man No but this is about job opportunities anyway And also if it's kind of like

Why are you sending me over there uh well you have to go there well no i'm doing it someone else uh do i is there something here i can do this is about negotiating with your boss i don't even like the idea of being like look okay spider-man so uh you are let's okay let's not use it right an actual one that exists let's say we've got another guy vigilante he's kind of like daredevil i don't know his his name is... Thunder Switch. There you go. Right?

And he's like, hey, I'm cleaning up the streets of this place. And you're like, okay, sick. Look, we'll register you and you can keep this area. Right? And we're going to do that for every single superhero across America. Presumably not the world. I think it's just America. Okay.

Swamp Thing and Man Thing are both DC, aren't they? No. No? Swamp Thing's very Marvel. Swamp Thing's Marvel. are both DC, aren't they? No. No, Swamp Thing's very Marvel. Swamp Thing's Marvel, Man Thing's... No, Man Thing's Marvel. Wow. My God, a little faux pas on my part.

Namor is Marvel. Namor is Atlantis, so he has nothing to do with America. Yeah. Anyway, so you're doing it for America. There are so many superheroes in America that if fucking thunder switch down here that we have like whatever you can keep doing what you're doing keeps doing what he's doing like what if he gets too rough what if he gets too violent we don't have a code of ethics

we don't have a code of that's what the registration is about but it's not yes well it's what it should be about but then it gets real fucking insane very quickly because you have so many different motivations you have so many different styles of. Because you have so many different motivations. You have so many different styles of fighting crime. You have so many different levels. It's basically you are becoming a cop, and these are the things. Oh, this is our code of conduct. I think so many people would refuse. I think I'd refuse.

Because it's like, all right, this is your code of conduct. This is your salary. This is your days off. This is all this kind of stuff. This is your training. All this kind of bullshit. This is the package we're offering you. Basically, you do this, or don't be a vigilante.

Yeah, see, I don't think it'd work. I think it'd just fall apart. If you do become a vigilante, you are basically a villain. Days off. Yeah. So if you're like Spider-Man and you're like, anyway, Green Goblin's attacking the city, but, you know. It's my day off.

It's your day off. It's not like you fucking idiots. It's not like they won't have someone else like okay it's spider-man's you know um sabbatical sabbatical is this day however fucking prowler is on the scene so he can go off and do some shit all right but that's not how super that's the thing like superiors don't work like that it comes down it's not like oh it's my day off it's like it's an emergency You're kind of really nitpicking. I'm hoping I get time and a half.

Yeah. And you probably would for fighting Galactus. You're kind of nitpicking little bits and things here. And that's if Superman, he wants to do overtime. But it's kind of like the idea of, all right, Spider-Man, you've been on the thing for 48 hours straight. You need to rest. You need to get off because you're going to make bad judgment calls.

Just like we don't make cops do a 48 hour shift. We don't make anyone do a 48 hour shift. Doctors sometimes cop it. Which is scary. Which is scary and there's a lot of medical fuck ups because of it. I just don't think that it, like, it's a good idea. Like I said at the start, I'm down for registering

them. I want to know where they are all the time. But it's not where registering is for. But, son of a bitch, I just don't think it would ever work. I think Deuce is right. I think there are too many conflicting opinions and conflicting styles. And the thing is, it's like, if you would have to end up imprisoning them, then you have to. You'd be like, this is the option.

We're going to give you a government package or a job here. No, but you can't even do that. It's just like you'd have to register them and put them all in jail straight away. Well, no, because then you just become a horrible you become you become a jackson i know that's what i'm saying that's why the registration act doesn't work so it's it's not even registration act it's basically registered to become a super cop yeah but i don't think anybody would i think you get some people sure but in a world where you have a bunch of super cops you don't necessarily need a vigilante yeah but that's not what that's not why they're vigilanteing they're not vigilanteing because they're like you know spider-man if there was a group of super cops you don't necessarily need a vigilante yeah but that's not what that's not why they're vigilanteing they're not vigilanteing because they're like you know spider-man if there was

a group of super cops isn't going to retire being spider-man well no but he would hopefully join the super cops i don't think he would i think you have all of these little groups already you have the avengers you have the defenders you have all of these groups and to disband them where they have their own ideals and their own ideas the own things that they think this is a crime this is not we'll let this happen but we have a clear set of what is laws and what is not yeah but that's not what the superheroes always follow like that's true like you you know you know what i mean frank castle's out there why fuck up the fucking castle have to register he's meant to because he's just a man but he dresses up as a vigilante and does some kind of stuff. So if he was to register, he would.

But he doesn't because, of course, he doesn't. And he just, like, these villains. He can't just murder people. What happens is, it's so funny. These villains come down to, like, help out Cap America, like former villains. And they're like, man, we're on your side because this is all fucked up.

Like, we're masked vigilante villains and, like, this is crazy. Frank Castle just takes one look at him and shoots him in the head. And then Cap America just starts wailing away at him. And Frank Castle just doesn't put up any fight. And Cap is like, why aren't you fighting back? He's like, because you're a hero. You're Cap America. It's very funny.

Frank Castle's awesome. But yeah, it's sort of the registration should work. And I'm all for it because it's kind of giving a different incentive to people to become altruistic and to use their powers in a responsible manner, which is like, if you want to fight crime, if you want to help out your society, this is a way to give you training. Look at, for example, Peter Parker.

Look, you had no training and you were in a world by yourself. So you had to really grow up in the school of hard knocks and have Green Lantern, sorry, Green Goblin. Not Green Lantern. Green fucking up everybody. I was like, why? You know what I mean?

You're not from Round Hill. The Green Goblin's fucking up your shit. Throw on Gwen Stacy off a building and you snapped her neck. You know what I mean? And that's because of improper training of what you, her neck. You know what I mean? And that's because of improper training of what you didn't know what to do. Who's going to train Spider-Man? I guess that's another issue. Like, powers are so varied that you can't have the

X-Men problem. And they take him to, I think it's called Camp Hammond and they have these sort of ideas which are like, we need to train you just in terms of combat. We need to train you. That wouldn't help Spider-Man from like, that was just his web. I know. No, you're right. Training would not work. Who's going to train them? No, training would work if it's in terms of combat we'd train that wouldn't help spider-man from like like that was just his web i know there's nothing yeah no you're right training would not work who's gonna train like no training would work if it's in terms of like here is the way to subdue a person without killing

them yeah here is a way to knock a person out without them getting damaged here's a way to and also use the law to your advantage but it's not going to help with powers well and that's thing it's sort of about like oh what's your capabilities what you can do and that comes down to that kind of training because there are people who are there who have all sorts of powers. And yes, Spider-Man's using his web and it's kind of like a flip kind of thing. But remember, that's not his powers. He made that. Really, the government could use that and probably then start messing about with that.

Did Tony Stark give all his Iron Man suits to the government? He gave Peter Parker one. But that's another thing. I think I want to say that the S.H.I.E to say that the shield agents who are using it might have tony ones might have been around like potentially got the same sort of um suits but i'm not entirely sure but it is it is kind of like this idea of if you want to fight great idea but i just don't think it's it's like it's basically if you want to fight crime do this or stop yeah and i don't think anybody will and if you and if you don't stop you're breaking the law and you are no better than the criminals that you're fighting

so we will arrest you that's okay you end up with a lot of superheroes in jail which i'm for and that and that's that's the case of it it's like you're in jail now because you have broken the law if you want to and do it like a three strikes policy, like you broke the law. That's terrible. It's like, we're arresting you. Alright, slap on the wrist. Don't keep becoming a vigilante. If you want to keep doing this, there's this

opportunity to join up and whatever. If you're going down that path, three strikes, look, you're in jail mate. I'm sorry, we tried. There's no logic in that whatsoever. Three strikes for vigilante that path three strikes like look you're in jail mate i'm sorry we tried no there's no there's no logic in that whatsoever either three strikes for vigilantism i'm super powered individuals yeah but then okay then they've created the difference of like what about vigilantism by people like

frank castle who's he's not he's not being i guess he's not being a vigilante he's more of a murderer but i could be much arrest him straight away. Oh, you're registering? Good. You're in jail for murder now. Because I don't think Frank Castle would register. I don't think he could register. It's like our old friend, man with a gun.

He's not like a superhero. He's a vigilante, sure, but he's a man with a gun. You don't need to register. Sorry, how many murders have you committed? Oh, I see. Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh. Pressing the button to get Cap in here. Like, yes, yes, good, good.

That's great news. You're a robo-superhero. You'll be an asset to the government. Punch in the face by Cap America arrested. But I think you can have so many... In Three Strikes Policy, the issue is there is that you're like, okay, strike one, and they're like, cool, I'm going to be better about this in the future and not get caught again.

It's the reason a three strikes policy doesn't really work in the real world. Because these fucking superheroes are so fucking pedantic about who they are. The best thing that Spider-Man could ever do, and they ever did really, was create several different suits. So it wasn't just Spider-Man fucking around New York.

It was several different identities. But no, they're all so fucking tied to their own identity that of course, it's like, all right, Spider-Man slap on the wrist do it don't do it again I won't he does it again you're like oh yeah Spider-Man's been about that's too Spidey we've got you on camera like Spider-Man slap on the wrist he's like I won't get caught again I guess and then he gets caught again no and then he gets caught and there's a thing it's like Captain America whatever sure and that's the thing that's the problem of it all but then it comes down to why are you even doing this Spidey

well that's the question why are you breaking this law what are you trying to get around what do they all do I just don't think that they would all you would get a great deal I'm sure a great deal

many superheroes would be like sick an opportunity to do this on a global level but it's the same reason that superheroes don't join up these other organisations

it's the same reason that and I'm sure like hey Spider-Man's been part of the Avengers. A lot of people are part of the Avengers. But there are people out there that are like, no, I'm not going to be a team. I'm going to be myself. That's just super cool.

You can be yourself. Don't fight crime. But then they just will. And then you get out of it with everybody in prison. It's the same thing. But then putting superheroes in prison. If you are like, you get out of prison.

They get out of prison. They are a jailbreaker, which is another crime. You are a criminal. They're all criminals already. I know, but it's like you're a different kind, like a level of criminal. It's kind of like if you're like, okay, so look. You yourself are doing like, you're out there and you're trying to fight crime.

It's like, okay, so either we put you in jail or you join the military is basically what's happening here. Yeah. But like the military that you do the exact same thing that you're currently doing no but they're not doing the same thing yes they are doing yes in theory they are but in reality they're not yeah in reality they wouldn't be because in reality they all don't all go by the same code of ethics that shield would and also like you're taking away a lot of the reason yeah but they don't all go by because

like if you're spider-man and you see a robbery in place... Spider-Man's a bad example because he works by himself. And what he does is he'll go down, he'll do some quips, he'll slap a guy in the face, and then he'll web him up to a lamppost and fuck off. The cops come down and it's like, oh, there's people who are webbed up on a lamppost. Well, we'll just take them down and send them on their way

because we don't have enough to really prosecute these guys. Whereas with Spider-Man, if he was part of the Avengers initiative or he's part of the registration program, it could be like, you're under arrest, stop. I have the authority to arrest you, web you up, take them to the cops. Do they have the same rules as the cops then?

Yeah. Then they're already breaking code of conduct straight off the bat. By webbing a guy up. Or if Daredevil breaks a guy's leg. And that's the thing, you need to make sure, and that's what the training would come into, you need to do this non-lethal. But not even non-lethal, like

the moment, cops can't just punch a guy. Yeah, that's true. Cops can't just go fight a guy. And that's probably the ground arrest. Smack, smack, smack. Pow, biff. But it's you fight like with like kind of thing thing so you can't shoot unless they shoot you kind of thing right that correct uh yeah i mean if they're armed and trying to shoot so it's yeah shoot them non-lethally and so with

spider-man like you are under arrest if you would uh resist arrest i am i am eventually gonna have different rules for different people so like if uh Luke Cage, who is invulnerable, is like, somebody put a gun on him, Luke Cage surely can't put a gun on that guy. Well, no, and that's like, you'd hopefully just arrest them. Do you have superhero's guns now? Well, they don't need them. They might.

Some of them would benefit from them, like Spider-Man. If you gave Spider-Man a gun, he'd probably be better off. You're under arrest. Yeah, exactly. Good. No, this... I reckon just enroll them, get rid of the masks,

chuck them onto the police force and you have fucking superpower policemen. That's the idea. I think being like, are you superpowered? Do you want to join the police force? Seek.

If not, keep being a vigilante. We'll keep an eye on you. I'd say stop being a vigilante. You will be arrested. I think you'll keep tabs. Register you so we know where you are.

Because like, if you're a vigilante and the reason like, oh, but the Green Goblin is coming up and gobbling everywhere, it's like maybe you should stop becoming a vigilante and leave it at that. Oh, but the Green Goblin is going to do shit. No, we'll sort it out. We'll take care of it. I do not trust the government with my superhero.

Yeah, I kind of don't either. I don't trust the government. I know, again, if I lived in this universe, that S.H.I.E.L.D. and the government is sometimes Hydra. S.H.I.E.L.D. is like 80% of the time Hydra. And 20% Skrull. It's more Hydra and Skrull than it ever is government. It's like 6% Hydra, 40% Skrull, and like 30% Bitterbug.

Yeah, I like the idea like that 80% being like, we're Hydra, and then the other 20% are like, oh, wait, we even scroll the whole time. Is there actually no shield for that? Everyone's like, wait, hands up if you're just an actual shield agent. Huh. Fuck.

It's like, I'm an Asgardian infiltrator. I'm just a shapeshifter. I'm trying to infiltrate. I don't think anybody here actually works for shield. Nick Fury is just like standing at the front of the pit. Nick Fury's like, I'm just a shapeshifter I'm trying to infiltrate I don't think anybody here actually works for S.H.I.E.L.D. Nick Fury is just like standing at the front of the pit Nick Fury's like I'm a robot

well this is fucked like I don't know where the real Nick Fury is I'm just a life model decoy this whole time I don't know where it happened oh who fucking knows it's a mystery

look at that I think what you need to do with superheroes is just have them police themselves kind of like wizards do. So then what's the option? I am so pro-rotation because it gives people incentives

to not be a vigilante, and that's what it's all about. Because look, Spider-Man's like, I'm poor as shit. It's like, no, no, no, you become a... And it gives you a career choice, because it's kind of like... Pace by mental commission, that's what I'd do. So it's like, you know what I mean? It sort of gives people an idea to work towards and be better and it's like if you're out there spider-man

around in like a vacant parking lot doing backflips and tricks and shit to get better and whatever that's cool the moment you start vigilante-ing-ism we can come down and be like excuse me what do you think you're doing have you considered joining this program not like straight into the negative zone that's terrible i think youth programs is how you do it so yeah what's what's your option is a youth program youth program i think instead of being like all superheroes right now have to register or go to jail yes i think what you do instead is you're like up-and-coming superheroes who want some guidance you know spider-man in his early days but fucking daredevil when he was just

starting out everybody when they're just beginning their life of vigilantism or superheroism we say look we're we're not forcing you to do anything we're not registering you none of that but we want you to be out there acting ethically and acting appropriately okay and so we're going to from a very young age teach you how to do it okay you're not joining any initiative you're not joining any government's fucking system we're just saying saying that, hey, you can, if you want, we'll teach you how to be effective. We'll teach you how to be non-lethal. We'll get you in contact with the police force

so that you can work alongside them, Batman style. You're not part of the police force. You're still acting independently, but we're just training you to work better with us. So instead of being like all superheroes are cops, you're like all superheroes are just another part, maybe a more unstable part, but of the justice system. But you have to do that from a young age.

And the moment you register them and you tell them how to act, you've reacted. It has to be a very non-confrontational, and you have to be like, we kind of can't stop superheroes. It's going to happen. It's like part of life. War, death, taxes, superheroes. So that's the only way we're going to go about it.

Would you pay them as well as a commission based? No. I mean, commission would be funny to be like Superman brings you a crook and you look over him and you're like, okay, he's got like three counts of armed robbery. He's 50 bucks. That's great. Or he brings you a mastermind and you're like 10 grand. But would you then maybe also create like a superpowered police force as well? If people joined up, yeah.

And I think instead of having a superpowered police force, you have a superpowered squad on your police force as well if people joined up yeah and i think instead of having a superpowered police force you have a superpowered squad on your police force yeah so that you're like or even just one individual who has been chained chained chained up in the station and then we let him off the chain no but somebody who's been trained so that if a superhero related crime happens i mean a superhero kills another superhero and we want to find out who did what you bring that guy in as a kind of superhero detective he looks over the crime scene he uses his knowledge of the superhero fucking realm that other world you have to be like i think it's this person and he's part he's there so that it's not just cops going up against a guy who can become like a bowling ball and roll down hallways yes so that's a really good idea and what then you do with the current vigilantes and i don't think you can stop them so i think you

just keep an eye on them which is why i come in and the superhero we'll call it a problem i don't think it is the superhero problem the superhero problem is a problem because of what the new the new warriors did which was that no uh nitro blew up a school because of the actions the new warriors and no one was held accountable which is fine in the loosest sense of the term you can't new warriors should have been held responsible it was because we live in a world in that instance where like a superhero team had a tv show which is because superheroes have hit the point where they were just like whatever hey this is fun now rather than doing it because they wanted to do it they weren't doing it for any reason they were just

doing it because like hey rich is fame which is kind of what would happen with the fucking registration because you'd be paying them for it it would become a paid job rather than them doing it because they feel that that is right. They'll be doing it for... So they lose sight of why they're doing it. It's easily corruptible. Look at fucking police forces. Look at everything. It's kind of cool to imagine like Spider-Man

has to have like a mounted shoulder cam so that people can see what he's doing. Yeah, but that's the thing. And they should though. No, but like even in the comic book universe, everyone's corruptible except superheroes At this point But in a different way

Like Spider-Man's never like I'm just gonna kill a man He made a literal deal with the devil He's very corruptible Yeah but that was for his aunt And the Hardly that big of a I just want to point out that the Marvel devil Real nice guy

Also he's like give me your wife And you can have your aunt that big of a... It wasn't like someone was like Spider-Man. I just want to point out that the Marvel devil, real nice guy. Also, he's like, give me your wife and you can have your aunt. But like, your wife still exists, she's just not married. Yet. Like, theoretically, Peter Parker could just be like,

hey, do you want to get married, Aunt May? I mean, what? Mary Jane. Like, couldn't he just do it again? Yeah, he could do it, but I think they take away the memories of like,

Mary Jane and his whatever. Anyway. Point is, the registration act would not work. It would result in bad things happening almost instantly, which is exactly what happens in the comic book. And would happen time and time again. And it's just going to keep happening every time you fucking try and bring in a registration act. It's too far gone.

Everything's going okay. A school blows up. Yes. Yeah, okay. Everything's going okay. A school blows up. Yes. Yeah, okay. That's bad. It sure is. But there's no solution to that. Unless it's jail the guys who blew up a school.

Yeah. Like, that kind of works. Yeah. Punish the bad guys. They do as well. But it's also, like, because it it's also i think it was mostly just proper training i would say you have the the the youth program but also to the previous one look guys training we're offering this for free come and do it the government offering something

for free yeah that was a real funny like i just imagined you with like like it was such like a fuck the government kind of like because in this this universe offering offering training to vigilantes is a real

real good use of taxpayers money because if they're trained we're not gonna have to deal with schools blowing up I feel like that's gonna be a sore point for the public exactly

they're gonna be like what's my taxpayers dollars going to us uh well instead of rebuilding the things that they blow up we're gonna to train them so it prevents things getting blown up.

I'm voting in President Lex Luthor. Thank you very much. He opened up this portal, different dimensions, and he has some real good ideas. Civil War. I'm Team Captain America and nothing's going to change that because I have no faith in humans and no faith in government, I guess. I'm Team Captain as well, ultimately. Well, I'm team Captain America and nothing's going to change that because I have no faith in humans and no faith in government, I guess.

I'm team Captain as well, ultimately. Well, I'm team both. I'm in the middle. You can see the positives, but you know that realistically it doesn't work. I can see the positives on both sides. I'm team Iron Man for about five minutes until he just goes off the fucking rails.

Well, you could do this exact Civil War a hundred times and all a hundred times, regardless of who's in charge. It's going to do exactly the same thing. Oh, I don't know. They're going to go too far. Well, that's the thing. They might go too far, but Iron Man and Maria Hill go too far, like, day one.

Cloning Thor seems like a real weird leap to make. And also the negative zone prison. That's real. It's like the Stanford prison experiment. Goes from zero to 100 in about 20 minutes. I kind of imagine like... My references are very strange sometimes. I like to imagine like Tony and...

Stanford prison? This town they blew up was Stanford? What? Don't you just imagine like Tony and Maria and they're like having like one of the... Like they're planning it out In like a fucking boardroom And it's like Two in the morning

There's Chinese food everywhere And they're like What do we do with them? What do we do with them if they say no? And Maria's just like Negative zone! And Tony's like You're a fucking genius

It's like clone Thor will call it claw Brilliant I'm just so ready to go to bed Because what I would do If it was Especially when it's like Because I think they arrest Daredevil and they chuck him in the negative zone. Like, Daredevil is

kind of like a dude. It's like, just put him in regular prison. What does the negative zone do to a person? I can't imagine good things. I can't imagine good things. And on that note, I've been Joel. I've been Jackson. And I've also been Joel. What side are you on? Tweet Jackson. And I've also been Joel.

What side are you on? Tweet us. And if you tweet me saying, fucking, you're an Iron Man side, I'm calling the cops. Yep. But Iron Man is the cops. Fuck you. If you think that we should register superheroes so we can keep, we can know where they are. No, Jackson.

No, no, no. Tweet me at all dogs are dead because I want to know how many people I have on my side. If everyone could just tweet me lyrics from Fuck the Police by NWA, that would be great. I'd say like a map of all people who agree with Jackson. It's just mostly German. No! They're not about that anymore. Yeah, if you...

Hey, here's another one. If you think this episode was a lot of people spouting Jackson's opinions from earlier back at him as though they were their ideas and also fine, if you think Jackson got fucked in this episode, tweet me at OldDogsOfDead. I think fucking

Dammit just sent some of my points back at me. If you think my friends are monsters and I should quit the show, tweet me at Josh13, because I am not about all that. Freedom, guys. Freedom's good. So long as it wasn't mandatory

and you gave people a choice. That's the difference between me and you, Jack. I didn't give people a choice. That's true. But yeah, no, tweet me NWA lyrics, please. Anyway, bye. If you think this show is worth at least a dollar, why not donate to our Patreon account?

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