Plumbing the Death Star - Why doesn't Batman Kill the Joker?

Episode Date: July 13, 2015

In which our heroes live through another mass escape from Arkham, stock up on bottled water as Gotham’s water supply has been poisoned again and watch the news for potential Joker gas threats as they wonder why Batman doesn’t just kill the Joker? We look at all the bad things Joker has done, a sure fire way to get out of having to vote ever again and review Arkham’s revolving door policy. Jackson is Grant Morrison against his will, Zammit just assumes it’s all the Bat-Demon’s fault and Duscher just wants to keep reminding people of the Killing Joke. It's a criminally good time as we remember that Batman doesn't kill for a reason (anymore) and is probably having too much fun dancing with the devil in the pale moonlight.Want to help fund Jackson’s quest to prove he isn’t Grant Morrison? Head to http://www.patreon.com/sanspantsradio and for as little as $1 a month, you can help make a difference in his double life.And don’t forget to get your free audible book download and a 30 day free trial at http://www.audibletrial.com/SanspantsRadio there’s probably at least ninety-seven books about seducing a fictional universe. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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This episode is brought to you by Stanza.co where they ask the important questions like what is your audience doing today here at plumbing the death star we ask the equally important questions like why doesn't batman kill the joker was that a penguin noise why doesn't batman kill the penguin as well Why doesn't Batman kill the penguin as well?

Why doesn't Batman kill everyone? Justice! Because then Batman would be the bad guy. Good answer. Because then you'd need someone to fight Batman. To take out Batman. Robin! Robin can't take out Batman.

Not yet, anyway. Not until... Give him time Nightwing Tim Drake Is not a dragon What? He said Drake I just thought of a dragon dressed in Batman

And then was like He started from the bottom now I'm Robin Yes I started as a Robin and now I'm a beautiful dragon. What's the dinosaur in shorts from Marvel? Fing-Fang-Foom. Fing-Fang-Foom? That guy. What about Gorilla Grodd from DC?

He's just a gorilla. So why doesn't Batman just strangle a gorilla? Why does Batman punch a gorilla? Gorillas don't know they're breaking. Does the gorilla know he's committing crime? He's a super intelligent gorilla. He ain't your run-of-the-mill dumb fuck gorilla. He's a gorilla with plans

and ideas. Crime ideas. He's albino, I think. Nah, he's not. Someone's albino. Mr. Freese? No, he's just cold. Anyway, getting more importantly back to our question, why doesn't Batman kill the Joker, which is a question that superfan Curtain Pushpendra has asked us to do.

So, yeah. Why doesn't he? Why doesn't he? Why doesn't Batman kill the Joker? Because if Batman kills the Joker, then Batman's the bad guy. He can't go around just murdering people, guys. That's Batman's reason. Yeah, but again, if we talk about...

Logically. Logically, why doesn't he kill Joker? Because, yes, if he killed a Joker, he would prevent a lot of problems. Because Joker does... Whatever time that Batman stops Joker, he just chuffs him off and chucks him into Arkham Asylum. Yeah.

And then it's like, there he is in Arkham, which he will inevitably escape from. Because it's revolving door policy at Arkham. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So... And then every time like, there he is in Arkham, which he will inevitably escape from. Because it's revolving door policy at Arkham. So, and then every time he does escape, he then kills a bunch of people, which really should be on Batman's hands. Because, like, think of all the orphans that... The Joker is creating. Maybe it's like a system.

Like, the Joker creates orphans, Batman gets those orphans. They become Robins. Yeah, they become Robins. Yes, you had a question. So I want to answer that question before I go to my dumb thing. Oh, I was going to ask. It was a dumb question because I realized I remembered things when I was about to ask it. I was like, what has Joker done specifically to Batman that's bad?

The answer, a lot of things. Yeah. Paralyzed and raped his friend? No, no. No, no. Just paralyzed. Have you read The K joke yeah in this paralyzed and sexually assaulted or at least implied um sexual assault see the rank on that though gordon robin not gordon gordon gordon barbara

gordon barbara gordon what the fuck are we doing like gordon robin it's like gordon what's his other name jim gordon j Gordon Jim. Gordon Jim's daughter. Bob. Yeah, Bob and Gordon. Wow, no, I thought that was... He's a killing jerk. The jerk kidnaps her. I think I must have only read a retcon of it where all he does is paralyze her. No, because he shoots her.

And then, like, Batman is going through this ride and there's lots of naked photos of her bleeding. Oh, okay. That's hectic. Maybe he doesn't rape her. Maybe he just takes gross... Oh, it's like sexual assault at least. It's sexually assault. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm pretty sure it sort of implies...

I don't think it implies rape, but it's sort of... It's sus. It doesn't... It's not good. Whatever the Joker did to Barbara... Whatever the Joker did to Barbara is not a good time. He shouldn't have. He killed the Robin.

Yeah, he turned that one Robin into a little Joker that one time by just beating the shit out of him with a crowbar. But then that one of the Robins kills the Joker. The Joker does die. The return of the Joker. Batman begins. How can the return of the Joker be when Joker dies?

That doesn't make sense. He's returned. Did he die crying? I accidentally watched the movie backwards. I watched it in rewind from the end credits to the start. That must have been super confusing. You were like, I can't hear anyone. There's these weird lines in the front.

Wait, that's VHS. Weird, strange directorial choices in this movie. He poisons a lot of people. Joker gas ain't great. He's not a great guy Collateral damage He kills people They laugh to death

I am not that familiar with the Joker They die with a smile on their face That's alright Like your boy the penguin would kill He steals children Why doesn't Batman kill the penguin Because he has this policy where he doesn't batman kill the penguin batman well that's because he has this policy where he doesn't kill or use guns now does have used to kill like willy-nilly back

in the day he's like maybe i should cut back yeah like i'm pretty sure he just like grabbed someone with a rope and just wrench their neck like he killed a lot of people but eventually batman was like a no kill he saw superman doing his no kill thing and he was like oh that's good the superman explicitly state in the comics he's like i, I'm not going to kill anyone? No, Superman kills a big ass dog. Because Batman's like, I don't kill. I don't think Superman is just like, I don't kill. He's just like, I just don't.

It'd be super funny if Superman had like, I don't kill or use guns. You're like, of course you don't use guns. Your eyes are guns. You don't need to use guns. The idea of Superman killing someone with a pistol is super funny. You're like, you piece of shit. I'm pretty sure Superman's used guns before. That's- why? For what? Not only in alternate versions of hobo crazy Superman. Yes, he's used guns.

Sick Superman. Sick-ass Superman. The best version of him. Uh, no, I was gonna say, why- Batman's got this no killing policy. Right, we can take that as- He ain't gonna- Throw people off buildings. Yeah, that's what I was was gonna say why didn't he just paralyze the joke can you kill people by the gun on my bike that someone else presses the button that will kill somebody batman has not not what do you call like no if he doesn't pull the trigger it's fine yeah but he could just like cripple the joker's legs i would say barbara gordon uh that's not good uh i would say why

doesn't rather than dropping off in Arkham why doesn't he have his own makeshift prison which is what he does in the Batman films in the Nolan universe but it was left out of the film

oh really he makes a little prison for the Joker because the Joker so what happens is in the novelization yeah neither the novelization

I am double excited the Dark Knight returns rises whatever the fucking third film. Dark Knight comes back again. Dark Knight comes back again. Yeah, the Dark Knight comes back. Wisdom and Return. Guys, I'm back. Remember the Batman?

It's me. It's me. I was that guy. No, in the novelization, when it talks about how Bane opens prison, and, yeah, it's sort of like everyone batman had put behind bars um was released yeah except for uh the novelization says something like except for um the one man that batman couldn't couldn't so who and it's like who has his own cell in like the middle of the sea okay where he it pretty much implies that the joker is locked up by himself

because then if he's completely isolated and alone, the only person he can drive mad is himself. Oh, okay. Well, see, that's wise. Which makes sense, but also cruel and unusual punishment. But it's also the Joker. Joker is literally cruel and unusual. I feel like before Batman existed,

people were like, cruel and unusual punishment? What's that? And then in Joker comics, they're like, oh, it's that. But then it's like we're talking about human rights and even though he is the Joker, he's still someone with rights that we don't torture. Can the Joker vote?

Well, no, because he's a convicted criminal. No, but it's not even really about that. What? If you have a criminal record, you can't vote? No, you can't. Holy shit! I didn't know that. Did you know that? Yeah, I knew that. I'm not an idiot. Do criminals open bank accounts?

I don't know. I'm not a goddamn lawyer. Criminals open bank accounts. That's fine. They just can't open other people's or they end up back in prison. Hey! That's one rule.

I don't think it's I don't think it's written I think it's heavily implied I don't think you can open someone else's bank account I mean you can break in um uh no that's

yeah they can't what else can criminals do uh climb trees climb trees um the comfort um

if you start a business I think you have to declare that you have a criminal record I think a lot of the stuff is that you have to be declared you are a criminal record um you I think depending on the the stuff is that you have to be declared you are a criminal record. I think depending on the country or some of that, like visa issues might be an issue.

Maybe it does affect a credit line and that kind of stuff. Being a convicted criminal isn't great, Dusha. And audience. Gang, if you're like listening in the back of a... I have to go and sort some things out. If you're in the back of a van in like a white striped T-shirt

with a little eyeband about to rob a bank and you got your dollar sign bags and you listen to this to get pumped and you're like, holy shit, they're right. That's not great for me. I'll never be able to get a mortgage or vote. There are repercussions of being a convicted criminal. It's why it's a bad thing and you don't want to be one. Right, mate?

Apart from the incarceration there's other things that but you could become a millionaire so let's not say that that's true that's the payoff yeah it's a risk that's a risk reward you're taking that's what you're gambling that like as in like if someone's like joel you can't ever vote again i'd like well that's that's actually kind of nice yeah it's kind of right off my mind really find from not voting before yeah that cost me money if me money. If you could find... You know, I didn't vote. I could have voted.

I didn't. No one called me up. Here we go. So if you get fined for not voting, and then you refuse to pay that fine, and then they sort of be like, throw you before a judge and be like, you either pay the fine or you go to jail.

And you're like, I'm going to go to jail for how long? What's that going to be? Let's just say like six months. It'll probably be less than six months. It'll probably be like a month. Yeah, right. So then I could just go spend prison time in a month, which let's face it, it's not going to be great. But then I don't have to vote. Yeah, but then you can't open

a bank account. You can open a bank account, you just maybe can't get a mortgage. Just get a house first. Yeah, there you go. Just prepare yourself and that's how you just because not voting out of your life and voting oh terrible the way jail time works is it's something like when it comes to like fines and stuff like that it's like jail time equivalent to the fine i think so like i feel like that if you're like because if you the fine for not voting is like 80

bucks so like then there's the late fee on top of that like at most by the time you get to court probably 300 bucks and then i guess you have to then i think like the prison thing and like if you take someone to court you lose and you have to pay for that fee so we'll go a grand yeah okay that's not that long in jail but like do judges ever like okay you either have to pay this fine or do community service can Can I demand jail time? That's a good point. Fines result in community service. Punch a cop while you're in there. Do community service.

Don't turn up. Then they have to put me in jail. Then I'll never have to vote. If you get put on community service, you're still on parole. There'd be things you weren't allowed to do. Just do one of them. Punch a cop.

Steal a horse cop. Steal the cop of a horse. Impersonate a cop's horse. Done. But why doesn't Batman kill the Joker? Batman kills the Joker. All fine talk aside, as great as that is,

I think he's morally opposed to it. I mean, yes, you can have this whole idea about the end justifies the means because, yes, you take out the Joker, you then would prevent all these future crimes. Future crimes? Spooky. That's what Batman Beyond's about.

It is. But Batman has this weird morally... Does Batman think if he chucks Joker into Arkham, he'll be better? No, I think that every time he puts him in Arkham, he's like, nah, that was the last try. Yeah. Does Batman really walk away from Arkham being like,

finally? I mean, it took me like 106 tries, but that was the one. Yeah. I think the death penalty or putting someone to death, I mean, I am morally opposed to capital punishment. I don't know that I am. What a huff.

I often protest that all jail time should be capital punishment. Jay walking, you're dead now, you piece of shit. Dead man. Dead man jail walking. You... What's that? You didn't pay the fine for voting? Well, now you never get to vote because you're dead.

In my mind, it was like a big sausage machine that we just put our criminals into. I'm going to make a lot of hot dogs. All right. So I think there's a lot of other options that Batman has to do before killing him, because that should be a last resort in any situation. But you're right, cripple a guy.

Crippling him? Like, just cut off his legs, even. Just kneecap him. Yeah. Battering to the kneecap. There's an issue, it's either part of the animated series or a comic, where Batman and the, maybe, I don't know, this is from somewhere, just trust me on this, where he's fighting the Joker,

and the Joker's like, oh, last time we fought, you crippled me for six months and I was out of action for six months. That's a long time. That's good, like, six months there of no Joker attacks. In Gotham, that's amazing. You went six months without a Joker attack. They're making billboards about this. Yeah, you would notice. You would,

as a citizen of Gotham, be like, I feel like I've not had to avoid laughing gas once in the last six months. But crippling a dude, that's a crime, yeah? But Batman's above the law, guys, come on. Batman has committed, like, stay one. Like, vigilantism's illegal. Yeah, Batman is a crime. Batman can't vote.

Like, it's not a criminal record. Yeah. I'm not saying, because now, if Batman is all like, I hate crime, I'm gonna fight crime, crime is the worst, and then he'd be like, but then he does stuff which is illegal and he's a criminal and then... But Batman's clearly not against crime. It's like Batman's not a lawyer.

He doesn't really know what crime is. Curtain push, Pendra. The more important question you should be asking is, why doesn't Batman kill himself? Yeah, Batman should kill everyone in his rogues gallery and then take a bullet to their head. If Batman does take his own life, then the Joker would be disappointed

because the Joker probably wouldn't start attacking anyone because the Joker would be almost depressed because the Joker is in love with Batman. I saw that one coming. Let's talk about the Riddler a bit now. The Joker is in love with Batman. That's canon. Deal with it.

But it's not like romantic love. Is this obsessed? Yeah, it's more like romantic love is this obsessed yeah it's more like the killing joke which i've already referenced once so here we go we're back again he's like we can't like the ultimate joke is sort of like that we are like the same and we can't like it's like two sides of the same fucking whatever another thing why does it have who gives a that man kill the Joker is does the demon

bat prevent it from happening yeah I think it's probably got something to do with the demon bat for our

uninitiated listeners deep beneath Gotham in a cave I guess a bat cave but not the

bat cave but a bat cave is a giant demon bat named Bob Battos it's not even a joke. That's just comics being fucking dumb.

It's funny because Man Bat is also a thing. Yeah, well, there's a theory, but not really a theory, just something Alan Moore said once. Well, everything he says is kind of a theory. That the demon bat is responsible for everything in Gotham. So everything in Gotham is an attempt to make Batman. So every villain has elements of Batman,

but is not the perfect Batman, which is what Barbatus is looking for. It makes sort of sense. You're like, man, Bat, he's got Bat themes, but not the wealth. Did that provide any Batman stories? Yeah, he wrote a lot of DC stories. He wrote some Swamp Man stories where they had freaky plant sacks.

He wrote all of Swamp Thing. Oh, no, no, no, he didn't start Swamp He wrote some Swamp Man stories where they had freaky plant sacks. He wrote all of Swamp Thing. Oh, no, no, no, he didn't start Swamp Thing, but Swamp Thing... He finished him. He turned Swamp Thing into an actual character. He wrote whatever happened to the Man of Tomorrow. He's written some Batman stories, I'm sure. Because he always writes end of. Actually, I think he wrote the one where Batman travels through time.

No, that was not him. Really? That was, I want to say... Grant Morrison? Maybe it's Grant Morrison who wants... No, no, because Grant Morrison's not that insane. Yes, he is. Maybe it's Grant Morrison, then.

I know Grant Morrison... He's the one that wanted to, like, turn the DC Universe into... And fuck it? Yeah, then it's Grant Morrison. Then it's Grant Morrison. He's insane. And he's beautifully insane. Alan Moore wrote The Killing Drunk, didn't he?

Yes. Am I in it? Yeah, I'm a fucking idiot. I'm also an idiot for not picking that up. All three of us. Dumb. Fucking dumb babies. That's who we are.

I was like, I own a lot of Alan Moore comics. I own The Killing Joke. Oh! Here we are. That's the Batman story. Anyway, yes. Because Grant Morrison, because you read the one with Batman in Time. I don't know what it's called.

Batman in Time. Batman in Time will do it. Back to the time of Batman. Bat to the future. Yeah. Bat to the future. Clever. Well.

That and Ted's Excellent Adventure. There you go. That's less clever. But in that, that's super Barbados heavy, and that's where it all comes from. That kind of makes sense, because if you look at a lot of the villains of Batman, you've got Catwoman. It's like, oh, you've got the animal component, right? But, oh, you're a cat.

Damn it, cat. Damn it, damn it, damn it. Does he look at the Riddlerdler and he's like that's a one out of ten of the bad man yeah i think batman because riddler's got the intelligence because what you want is you want to be wealthy intelligent wait bats aren't well not bats aren't what does bat bat what what is like making an avatar of him so and that's bat. So hang on, he makes an avatar and his avatar is wealthy? Yeah, that's part of it. What a piece of shit. Because the penguin just got the wealth.

Hang on. No, you just don't want us to shit on penguins. No, penguin just got the wealth. The wealth of a bat. Bats live in caves. They're not wealthy. They're not even property rich. This is quite like to die right now.

Is Barbados... What's his name? Barbados. Barbados. Is he like making this fucking Mary Sue the most richest, handsomest fucking person who is my avatar? Wait, is he trying to recreate like Bruce Wayne Batman? Like that Batman?

Like recreate that? Or does he want to recreate a bat man? No, no, like that Batman. Oh What what means that Batman as anyone secret Bruce? He doesn't want to create man that he wants to create So I can't all these other characters before Batman it all just happened roughly at the same time. I'm not grant Morris Travel I guess don't poke holes. Oh wait comic. I did I was confused Perfect bat yeah, man Don't poke holes in a comic I didn't write. I was confused because I thought you meant that you were trying to create the perfect bat. Yeah.

Man. I was like, man bat, done. Exactly, like a perfect Batman. And you're like, he's wealthy? Bats aren't wealthy, intelligent. Are bats intelligent? I'll give you that because I don't know much about bats. But I know definitely not wealthy.

They're a poor animal. They are. No, I think the idea of that whole Batman time is that you've always got to have an attempted Batman. You always got to have an attempted Joker, and they're always going to fight. I think that's the idea. The Riddler's like a shittier Joker. Who's a shittier Batman? Robin? Good choice.

Yes. I think that's the idea. Again, Grant Morrison wants to fuck his own universe, so... Why? I don't know. I'm not Grant Morrison. Tell me that's... No, I'm not Grant Morrison! This whole episode's just like

everybody pokes holes in Grant Morrison's theories. Jackson has to take a fucking brunt of it. No, but like... Hang on. Yes, what? I'm ready. Let's go. Fuck the universe. He's magic. He thinks

he's a wizard. That's the truth. Is that him or is that Alan Moore? They both think they're wizards. But Grant Morrison intends to turn the DC universe into a physical entity and then bone it. Okay, no, that makes sense. So Batman

doesn't shoot the Joker or kill the Joker because they're locked in an eternal struggle and more ideas than people, I guess is Grant Morrison's theory. How does Grant Morrison feel about Batman beyond the return of the Joker in which the Joker dies at the end of the movie, not the start? I actually watched it in proper. I don't know.

I'll have to ask him. him you have a computer in front of your email digret morrison everybody in my podcast thinks i'm you but i'm not can you answer these questions i am just jackson um arkham city arkham city as well yeah there we go spoilers nah fuck you that's an you. That's an old game. That's an old game. Arkham... No, not really Arkham... I've not played it, I don't know. This is kind of an Arkham Knight spoiler, but it happens at the very start of the game.

So, it's a spoiler. If you want to play Arkham Knight and you haven't already, this shouldn't be spoiling anything. Maybe skip ahead a bit. Or whatever. Or whatever. Your grandad, do what you like. Yeah. Batman's poisoned

with Joker's blood and is slowly becoming the Joker is that happening in Arkham Knight yeah that's great hang on so wait

hang on that's not how blood works no it's not that's how magic Joker blood works at the end of Arkham City Joker's dying there's only one anti-dirt

Batman's also dying Joker's like fuck you I'm dying you have to deal with this so that's kind of funny because that's the ultimate dick move by Joker

he's like please give me no consciousness and I'm gonna be dead so I don't give a shit but yeah no apparently that wasn't the ultimate dick move

the ultimate dick move was Joker's like I'm still alive because I'm gonna live in you due to my poison my poison blood that's now in you

which is slowly turning you into the Joker which is hinted at in the DLC for Arkham City, so if you've played that then I guess there's no really... Enjoy. So Batman doesn't kill the Joker because he is

the Joker is another answer. There you go, Bush Pandora, is that what you were looking for? You happy? Are you happy because this is pushing us to the extremes? This is pushing us to the Pandora. What am I doing? I guess another question could be, why doesn't Batman just kill everybody?

Well, I know. Why don't they have at least a three strikes policy? Break out Arkham City three times, Batarang coming for your brain. Because I think then you could be like, look, I've tried rehabilitating you. Like, look, let's go. Who's a villain we can use as a joke?

The Riddler. The Riddler? Yeah. Riddler? We've solved your riddle-based crimes like three times. You're still on my dick about where this is. We've already known. It's the clock tower.

It's always the fucking clock tower. It's really frustrating. It's always the clock tower or Wayne, like as in Wayne Enterprises. Yeah. Because Riddler's like, I maybe, or maybe I don't. I don't know. Solve this riddle. Riddle me this.

Yes. So it's like we've put you in Arkham. We tried to rehabilitate you. You escaped. Same bullshit. We've done this thing a few times. So your last chance, mate. You step out that door, non-reformed, battering to the head.

But that demon bat's just going to make more and more riddlers. You know? Batman. No, it's not. It's done. It's made one riddler. One riddler was enough. Babatbot is like, Babatboss.

Babatboss? Sure. What's his name? Barbatos. Barbatos is like. Barbatos. Barbatos is like, Babatbos. Babatbos? Sure. What's his name? Barbatos. Barbatos is like... Barbatos! Barbatos is like, nah, the Riddler was like a bit of a mistake. Riddler was a once-off.

I'm sorry. That wasn't me. That was the mole demon. Who do you think is the closest to the Jerko that isn't the Jerko? Two-Face? No. Creeper. Creeper. Whatever his name is. No, not the Creeper. He's like a magic demon.

Is he? Nah, what the fuck's his name? The Trickster. He's a Flash villain who's like, if the Joker wasn't evil, was just slightly annoying. So the Trickster is like the...

Can he move fast too? No, but like... Why? Okay. He's just playing funny points. Yeah, like you know how the Flash is not like a dark superhero?

He's just like a happy guy who's like, woo! I'm a woo! Zipping about the shop. And so his villains are just kind of goofy nonsense, like Gorilla Grodd or the Trickster. He's a Flash villain, because gorillas are slow and Flash is a fast. That's what I don't understand with Flash. It's like,

if you're a villain that isn't also the Flash, you're not gonna win. Exactly. If you're a villain that is also the Flash, then you're probably like parallel universe the Flash, which I'm sure the Flash is what it's for. Yeah, the Flash spends most of his time fighting himself, let's be honest, at the end of the day. But no. Or the Gorilla Grodd could

be like, don't hit me, I'm a gorilla. And then you could be like, I'm just wailing away at a gorilla, what is my life? Yeah, but then Gorilla Grodd, I think Gorilla Grodd he makes children work in labor camps or something. But then the Flash sometimes travels so fast that he travels through time. So who cares? But what I'm saying

is that Wally is like a goofy character. So the Trix is like his goofy Joker. And Batman's like a dark character. That's what I'm saying. Trix is the closest to the Joker. And Mixoplex is like Superman's Joker? No, Mixoplex is like Superman's Batm No, Mixoplex is like Superman's Batmite.

Because Batman is Batmite, which is like a fucking comics. I don't even need to go into this. Who would be the... Because I was thinking about the Riddler, right? We were talking about him. Batman could just, like, Riddler himself, he's got complicated riddles, but Batman will always solve them

and get the Riddler, and it would just be the easiest to kill, I feel. Like, the Joker, he's got complicated riddles but Batman will always solve them and get the Riddler and he would just be the easiest to kill, I feel. Like the Joker, he's got Joker gas. He's got fucking chomping teeth. He's got big contractions. There's always one step ahead. It's unpredictable. The Riddler's not. If you wanted to start on a Gotham

massacre, you'd start it at the Riddler, surely. Because you work your way through his riddles you find him you're like he's just a skinny guy Penguin Penguin would be easy to kill

Penguin's got a lot of guys though plus Penguin bombs yeah but no because that's Penguin and his gang just the Penguin yeah

he has fashion waddles a bit you could run him down pretty easily just like in the Batmobile just oh goodbye

did we hit something Robin? no I I think we're good just In the Batmobile. Oh. Goodbye. Did we hit something, Robin? No, I think we're good. Just don't worry about it. Wouldn't it be amazing if Robin just started steering Batman into killing all of his villains? Really? Oh, there's been a Robin that started killing people before. Red Hood.

Red Hood, yeah. Red Hood, which turned out to be Tim. Jason Todd. Jason Todd. And then Jason Todd dies. Again? Red Hood is another goddamn Bob Battist moment as well. Jason Todd dies.

By the Joker, yeah. By the Joker and then comes back to life and is the Red Hood and then he's like, I'm a bad Batman. But then I'm fine. Also, isn't the Joker dead in comics right now because he took his face off and died? No, he took his face off and lived. He lived.

He cuts his face off and then sticks No, he took his face off and lived. He lived. He cuts his face off and then, like, sticks it back on. What a champion. So he's got, like... Infection. He's going to die of infection. Yeah, he's going to... Or is he someone else with... I can't remember.

His daughter has his face now, I think. I don't know what happened. Because I know originally... He's got a daughter? I don't think it's actually his daughter, but she's called Joker's daughter. Who dies in the death of the family? No one? No one.

That's misleading. That's a shame. What happens is that he whispers something to the Joker or something like that. Harley Quinn's dead. Or it's like, my real name is something, or Joker's like, my real name is whatever that is. And then Joker's just like,

no, I don't want to hear the answer to that. And he just kind of jumps down a ravine. Batman? No, Joker. I think the reason Joker and Batman don't kill each other is that they're enjoying themselves. Let's be honest, at the end of the day, Batman's not like, he's just a guy.

He's just like a crazy guy. Let's do a little thought experiment. What happens if Batman just started killing everyone? How bored? How bored would he get? He had nothing a guy. He's just like a crazy guy. Let's do a little thought experiment. What happens if Batman just started killing everyone? How bored? How bored would he get? He had nothing to do. He'd be really bored because he'd be in jail. Well, but say he got away with it and just could go back to being Bruce Wayne.

He cleans up crime in Gotham. And Batman's like, well, I got no useful skills outside Batman-ing. Yeah, I think Batman is his... Embezzling, I guess. I think Batman is his greatest villain, in a sense, because he's going to be the one that's going to be perpetually making sure that

he has someone to fight. Is this the reason why he does shit by half measures? He doesn't do full measures. He does everything half-cocked, because he's like, I can pretend I'm doing really good, I can beat up all these people and I'll draw this moral high ground

by not killing them and putting them in Arkham Asylum and that's that because they're going to escape soon and then I'm going to have some fun. And I can fight them again. I can fight them because that's how I get the adrenaline in my veins.

They always say, when there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire. Is that a saying? Yes, I think so. It's a good one. It is a good one. I like to think that Batman just Batmans

because he doesn't want to talk to Alfred. No, it's just... Like, it's just super awkward when he's at home and he's always like, oh, what's that? Alfred, I gotta go. Master Bruce. Master Bruce.

Why will you never have dinner with me anymore? Not now, Alfred. Crime. I think I hear crime. I think I hear... I set myself on fire. I hear kill a croc. No, you don't, bastard Bruce. Goodbye.

Lying to me, aren't you? Yeah, I think he's just doing it because if he doesn't, if he does kill, what is Batman without the Joker? What is Batman without any of his roles? Because if you look at Superman, right? Because what Curtin's asking us

is that he's not killing everyone. He's just killing the Joker. But then if he kills the Joker he starts something and then he has to finish it. It's like the slippery slope. But it is... It's kind of like the Man of Steel thing, though. Go on. But, as I said, Batman. Superman

has to kill General Zod, I guess. If you're Zack Snyder, that was inevitable. Like, in Zack Snyder's little brain. In my little brain as well, I can see that, yeah, Superman should have killed Zod. It's fine. Yeah, but then, like, it doesn't mean that Superman now has to kill everyone. No, but Zod is a Kryptonian living on Earth.

If, say, it's like, if it's sort of... Joker is a people Batman living in Gotham. Yeah, but Batman and Joker are equal. They're both dudes. You know, Batman v. Riddler, they're both dudes. It's like Superman v. Zod.

It's like, yeah, they're both gods living amongst people. Why doesn't Thor kill Loki then? Brothers. Family. La Famiglia. Vinny D! Well that answers why Vinny D doesn't kill Dwayne the Rock Johnson

in Fast Five. La Famiglia. So for Superman to kill Zod, that's fine. Because if Superman didn't kill Zod, Zod was going to kill everybody. And he wasn't going to stop no matter what he did. Whereas, I think

that doesn't open up a floodgates for all the Superman villains who are, I don't know, Brainiac, Lex Luthor. Because him killing Lex Luthor is like, you just snapped a dude's neck. What the fuck, Superman? Whereas if Batman kills... Yes should murder in private.

Yes, he should. Whereas if Cap... Just like an old laser wink. Wink? Or just crush his enemies down to diamonds and give them to Lana Lang. Is this a Lex Luthor? No, no.

It's a Papa Luthor. I just imagine Lex Luthor's face on the inside of the diamond like... Speaking of Lex Luthor, how good is Lex Luthor's hair in Batman v Superman? I have not seen that hair. Oh my god. It must be good.

You're excited about it. It's like, imagine a 90s movie about a surfer and then put that hair on Jesse Eisenberg. Done. That's amazing. I look forward to looking at that after the show. So I think if Batman kills Joker, he just starts something. Because Joker is Batman's worst villain. But they're all humans.

It's his Waltz partner. Yeah, it's his Waltz partner. How is he going to dance in the pale moonlight? Without a joke. Without a Joker. It takes two to tango. Yeah, exactly. I guess that is why Batman doesn't kill the Joker.

Exactly, because he doesn't want to... He's already paid for some dance lessons. If he rocks up, he's going to have to dance with the instructor, and that's awkward. You can't dance by yourself. You can. You can. That's like no one's watching.

Channing Tatum doesn't step up heaps. And on that note, I've been Joel. I've been Jackson. And I've also been Joel. This episode was brought to you by Kurt and Pushpendra who donated to us on Patreon if you have a specific topic you'd like us to cover just head to Patreon and sponsor us

and we'll cover that topic as soon as humanly possible which could take six months be patient friends we are only men we are not Grant Morrison as me and Dushyuk are convinced Jackson really is. I am not Grant Morrison. I just know some of the things he said.

That's something Grant Morrison would say.