Pod Save the World - Bassem Youssef: doctor, comedian, enemy of the Egyptian state

Episode Date: August 1, 2018

Tommy talks with Egyptian comedian Bassem Youssef about his improbable path to comedy, fame, and becoming an enemy of the Egyptian state.

Welcome back to POTA of the World. This is Tommy Vitor. I am broadcasting live from my honeymoon in a TBD location. Actually, just kidding. I pre-tape this a week early, but I'm currently on my honeymoon. So please don't skip a week just because I'm not working. That would hurt my wife's feelings and mine too. Also, I have a hell of a good guest today.

You guys have probably heard of Basim Yusuf. He's been called the John Stewart of Egypt, because he created and hosted a satirical television program that started in his... his laundry room on YouTube and by the end was watched by 30 million people a week in Egypt. He is seen as someone who helped change the course of history by, for the first time ever, telling jokes about authoritarian dictators and helping people actually understand that they can laugh and think freely about the people in power to the point where he became seen as

so dangerous to those in charge that they essentially forced him out of the country. So we talk about his story, his views of Egypt in the Middle East more broadly in the U.S. policy toward the Middle East. And then the role of jokes and satire in the United States and how concerned he is or is not about President Trump's authoritarian tendencies. So it is one of my favorite conversations I've had on the show. You can hear more from him on his podcast, remade in America or check out a documentary film called Tickling Giants. That's fantastic. But without further ado, here is the interview with Boston. Bostom, you took a pretty traditional path to comedy.

You went to med school. You became a heart surgeon. Then you dropped everything to make jokes about a government known for locking up and torturing its critics. Why did you decide to trade this smart, sensible, important career for comedy? For money. So the thing is, I never planned for this. I never planned for this. What happened was I was in Egypt after 19.

years of studying and working as a doctor as a heart surgeon and I got accepted in America to start a fellowship for pediatric heart surgery in the greatest most beautiful most amazing city in the world Cleveland and as I was waiting for my H1 visa which is something I guess will be from the past now after Trump is president I was waiting for my papers to come and then the revolution happened so I like many people went to the streets I didn't go there to protest or to throw rocks because I have a terrible aim. But the reason I went there is being a doctor, I felt like a duty to kind of treat those people and fix their wounds from the clashes that was happening between the revolutionaries and the pro-regime thugs.

So I didn't really think of anything beyond this point. But then every night when I would go back from the square to my house and I would watch the news, I would see a totally different perspective, a totally different reality. The states-run media were brainwashing the masses. They were spreading rumors, fake news, lies. Think of it as Fox News on steroids, ecstasy and cocaine. Got it. That was the state-run media.

And I was pissed because that was not the truth. Those revolutionaries were not paid operatives. These were not spies. These people in the streets were accused of being paid operatives as a part of a conspiracy that is orchestrated by the CIA, Musad, Iran, Hezbollah, Hamas, together. You know, so it's kind of as if I think the revolution has already achieved war peace.

It's like an Avengers movie. Exactly. So I was pissed. So when the president, the dictator Mubarak, stepped down, there was like a new era, and I wanted to document what I just saw. So I started to collect clips from YouTube, from television, and started to remind people what we were seeing during the 18 days of the revolution. And I really didn't think anything about those YouTube videos.

I think, oh, you know, it would be nice to have 10,000 views. I ended up having $5 million in two weeks. And I know that $5 million now, I mean, your dog can get $5 million. But that's 2011 in Egypt with the internet penetration is not that high. So that was a number that's unprecedented. That's incredible. So three weeks in and every single network wanted to get me on their show and they want me to host a show, a political satire show. But I said, I'm a doctor.

I'm going to go to my dream town, Cleveland. And I'm going to be a great pediatric art surgeon. But then it just, I don't know, they kept coming back. And I said, you know, maybe I can stay for a year. I'll stay for a year, try myself in that show. and then maybe I can continue my career as a doctor. So I started the show and it became successful. And then after a very successful first season,

I said, I want to take this show to the next level. I wanted to do it with life audience, which is something that nobody ever seen in Egypt. So I came to America, shadowed the team of the daily show, and I met John Stewart. And then he invited me on the show with a guest. And then I said, you know, John, next year, I'm going to make you so proud of me

because I'm going to make this a show with a real life audience and I would love you to come and a year later he did and he came to my show in Cairo. And he said, I have never ever thought that a short Jewish man from New Jersey would be so welcomed

in the middle of paper. Your story is so remarkable. I mean, you started making these YouTube videos in your laundry room and before you knew it, 30 million people were watching your show on television. It's documented in this documentary called Tickling Giants. You are the star, the focus, the eye candy. I highly recommend people check it out because it gives you this perspective from on the ground in Egypt that starts before the protests and Tahrir Square through Mubarak's resignation,

those crazy 18 days, then Mohamed Morsi's election, the military coup that took out Morses, and then LCC's eventual crackdown. But through that entire period, you kept telling jokes at the expense of people in power. How did the government and then average citizens in Egypt respond to your humor? Oh, I was hated by a lot and I was loved by a lot. And it's just like the amount of pressure that I was under was unbelievable.

Because here's the thing, you're not just criticizing the government. You're criticizing the government with a certain ideology. Under the Muslim Brotherhood, the ideology was religious. And under the military, the ideology was military. And here people play with religion and military a lot. But you have a set rule of separation, at least on paper, separation of the state and the army, state and religion. But there it's not.

So if I make fun of the Islamist, people would say, I'm making fun of Islam. If I make fun of the military, I'm making fun of the army, the troops. and they would use this narrative in order to rile people against me. So people take it very personally because they consider that as a part of their identity. They do not have the separation between me criticizing the actions of people in power and doing it with the ideology. And this is why you find authoritarian leaders everywhere in the world, whether in Egypt or in North Korea, whether in Turkey, whether in America,

they always hide behind empty rhetoric and ideologies. If you kneel to the flag, you're not respecting our country. And everybody knows it's bullshit. But it's the whole idea about hiding behind a much bigger ideology in order to put the pressure on the critics to shame them, to put them in a position that does not have to do anything with the discussion. It's not now a discussion about police brutality against black people. It's about you disrespecting the flag and the country.

It's not about you abusing your powers as a leader. It's about Islam and religion. It's about the military that's protecting you. And this was very difficult. That was the thing that I had to go. I mean, I had people from my own family disowning me, whether under the Islamist or under the military. It's kind of like one half disown me under the Islamists.

Right, right. It's only only on me under the military. I'm kind of like I'm an orphan. I mean, again, the film is so fascinating because, I mean, I was at the White House. I got promoted to the National Security. Council in January of 2011, and I left in March of 2013. Oh, like Jared? Yeah, like Jared.

One could only hope to live up to Jared's example he's setting. But during that period, that was the heart of the Arab Spring, and I spent hours and hours in the situation room with very important, serious DC people, consulting with the embassy and the intelligence community and debating what Obama should say publicly and what policy steps we should take. But what kind of drove me crazy about a lot of those conversations about events in Egypt were, or the way they were reported in the press was that they were all through the prism of Washington. I mean, you lived in Cairo, you walked the streets of Tahrir Square during the protests,

you watched as Morsi was deposed in a coup that the U.S. refused to call a coup wrongly, I believe. How much were people talking about the response in the United States and what Obama was doing or saying versus their own aspirations and hopes for Egypt? Well, here's the thing. Here's the thing about what is wrong with. how America is dealing with this whole region. Before I tell you how the people responded, because that's a very important perspective to discuss first.

The problem with what America is doing is, America is damned if they do, damn if they don't. Right? If they interfered, they are an invading power that goes, and that's not going to be good for it, and that's not going to be good for whatever power it's going to go in and protect. And if they don't, why are you leaving us to die? Right, right.

So they're damned if they're doing. So I understand that, but the thing is, whatever put America in that position is America itself. Because for years, America has emboldened those dictatorships in the Middle East with weapons, with security arrangements, with bilateral arrangements. And you cannot just come there and just wash your hands out of everything. It's not about like what Obama could say in public. This is a very minute point of time. the problem with America and the Middle East started a long ago. It's when America started to depose a democratically elected government in Iran to put the Shah back.

Because he wanted an independence for its all industry. It's when America started to push its own dictators like Saddam Hussein and then to remove him later a few, like a couple of decades later. The problem is when they support radical Islamic royal families in the Middle East, because of oil and then they wonder where does terrorism come from yeah the problem with America and the Middle East started way before what Obama can go up on stage and say what is going on and this is why what really pisses me off when I go in panels in America or in Europe and the Europeans in the America taught him it's like oh please come talk to us about how horrible the Middle East is and

how dictatorships are really killing you guys so we can feel better about our democracies. Then I tell them, I'm sorry, but your democracies have sold in the billions of dollars weapons to these dictatorships. Those dictatorships, they don't manufacture their own weapons. They buy their weapons from different parts of the country. But by the world, and it actually usually comes from America and the peace-loving Europe. So it doesn't make any sense. I'm going to give you an example, not by America, but I'm going to give you an example by the peace-loving France. right and what I'm going to say about France I can say about England I can say about Germany I can say about America When Sadat president Sadat was a president in Egypt in the 70s he came to power

France was very vocal about all of the human rights violations but then Sadat went there and he bought jet fighters It was called Mirage 5 and then Mubarak came to power and France was vocal so vocal about human rights violation and then Mubarak went there and he bought the Mirage 2000. And then in both cases, France stopped talking about human rights violation. And then Sisi came along. And then France was so, so vocal about the coup. And then he went there, Cici went there and he put the Rafaul, the most expensive shit fighters in the world that does nothing because it's probably because it's French. And then I'm seeing like French because it's so incompetent.

Anyway, so. And then again, France is now the best friends of Egypt. So basically, there's a pattern here. All of these democratic loving countries, they are being paid in weapons money to shut up and to stop talking about human rights violations. That's why they're fucking hypocritical. Yeah. It was so painful. I mean, I was out of government at the time, but it was so painful to watch my friends, my former colleagues, well-meaning good people,

refused to say that it was a coup in Egypt because there are laws that get triggered, which stop assistance, et cetera, et cetera. But, I mean, they had to publicly deny reality, you know, the State Department briefing. And it was just brutal. At the end of the day, they're going to stop the weapon sales. Listen, America doesn't care about democracy in the Middle East. America cares about one strong man, whether that was a religious royal family, a radical Islamic royal family, or a military dictator to just like take control of this piece of land. So its security measures, security agreements, its weapon flow continues on. interrupted. The whole thing about democracy and human rights is bullshit.

I don't think that was true for my guy, but reality got it away. I mean, guys, like, I'm sure that as individuals, all of these people are like, they mean well. I'm talking about policies that has put in place years and decades before you guys got into that position. Yeah. And they cannot really wiggle their way out of it. No, they can't. Yeah, you and your guy and the people, yeah, it's like, It's hard, but what can they do? It's much stronger, much bigger than them. No, it was generational too, because I mean, the 70-year-olds in those situation room meetings would be like, you know, Hosni was with us in Gulf War I, so we really got to get us back now. And the younger people are like, what the fuck are you talking about?

You know, I was 10 at the time. But, you know, the show became popular because you just started making these videos from your home, from your laundry room. You put them on YouTube. Millions of people were watching. They love them. During that same period, Twitter got a lot of credit for helping spark the Arab Spring because people could use it to organize or communicate. Again, that struck me as a little myopic, a little Western-centric view of what happened.

But how important for you or do you believe that those new communications tools were in helping remove Mubarak and helping the Arab Spring more broadly across the region? All right. I will be very honest with you. Yes, they helped. But at the end of the day, the power was in the hand of the army. Yeah. And I think, and I truly think, and I know that this will go against the very romantic vision of the revolution.

Yes, it was the people who moved, but at the end of the day, it was in the hands of the army to remove Mubarak, the Egyptian army. I think they found that Mubarak became a liability. Yeah. So they removed him. And after things kind of subsided, Mubarak now is living happily, enjoying all of his funds in Switzerland. and him and his two sons are released. This is a pact between the army. This is like kind of a bunch of thugs

who would actually take care of each other. And the way that depose each other or remove each other is a way to kind of the key power between them. So I think a big part of it is kind of like the army. All right, this is too much, it is too high of a wave. Let's remove the Mubarak and deal with the masses. And that helped that people leave the square. And then they made an alliance with the Muslim Brotherhood.

and the rest is history and then they made the coup against them. But the thing is, yes, the social media and the Twitter and, yeah, they were important, but it's not as you think that, like, the only factor that was there. Right. Because of the army said, like, right now,

you know what, we're going to just stay and we're going to put the army in the streets and we're going to just, like, sit there. And I don't think that things will actually have changed. Yeah. We've been talking about how you grew up under a dictator. In Tickling Giants, you talk about how living in a dictatorship,

can at times feel like it's physically crushing you? There are people in America who honestly feel that President Trump has autocratic tendencies that we are moving into a darker place as a nation. Do you share those concerns or do they feel like hyperbole given what you've experienced? No, the tendencies are there. You are not still moving into a dark place because in a couple of months you can have midterms and you can really change the narrative by simply switching the houses. If you switch the houses, Trump really has no power.

I think Trump, if it wasn't for the system, Trump would have been a typical dictator because he doesn't like criticism, he attacks the media. The problem with Trump, in my opinion, that he does not understand what does it mean to be a public servant. He never been a public servant. He has always been a pampered reality star who had a very modest beginning by taking $1 million from it.

That is Trump. So he doesn't understand. And you know what is so telling about that? The most telling evidence for this is that in the White House correspondent dinner for the second year in a row, he didn't go. Yeah, he's such a baby. For me, for me, that tells a lot because not a single president, not even Bush, not even Reagan, who by the way, he didn't attend because he was shot and he still phoned in. That's true. This is the, by the way, I want to tell you how important this was.

White House correspondent dinner. I want you to understand why am I making a big deal out of it. In the Middle East where a lot of people criticize America and you know, it's like, oh, America is this, America is that. When they see the White House correspondent dinner, they are blown away. The videos on YouTube are subtitled in Arabic and people say, oh my God, we wish our presidents, our leaders will be in that position. This is the leaders of the strongest country. And he's allowing comedians to rip them apart. it's symbolic you know it maybe yeah it is symbol it's an act but it is symbolic to something much bigger so for him to say all right I'm gonna go you have pain I'm not gonna go and I'm not gonna go on good land I would

him yeah so so this is the tendency he does not I don't know like have have you heard Obama complained about the media have you heard George W. Bush complain about media and I'm using George W. Bush the lowest kind of too's baggery there but like it just There is some sort of a pact. There's some sort of an agreement that, like, yes, we vote for you to be the strongest man on earth. But you have to suck it up and listen to the criticism because at the end of the day, you are a fucking public servant. Right, right.

And that's the thing that Donald Trump doesn't have. So, yes, I understand why Americans feel that because they are not used to this horrible presidential attitude. And yet, I don't think that. It is trivial. Because here's the example that I use. Yes, you're not a dictatorship like the Middle East. You're not like going there yet. You're pretty much light years away from this.

But you have all the right to be worried and all the right to be upset. Because it's like you're going into a five stars restaurant. You have the money that you earned all these years to go in and have dinner in this five stars restaurant. And then the waiter comes in and he gives you a piece of shit. and then it's like and then you complain it's like you should be lucky because people in Africa can't find foods like I don't care I worked hard for this plate in the five stars with it they say America has worked hard for its democracy for 400 years you cannot say like oh you should be happy because you don't have dictatorship like us so this change this drop in the service I call it service like because you go into a restaurant

you receive service you have a president you get service from him this drop this bad behavior, this bad performances, you should be worried about. And you should always ask for a better service. Yeah. Yeah. You were basically ultimately given the boot by a dictator, C.C. Trump loves C.C. He loves Vladimir Putin.

He loves President Erdogan of Turkey. He loves Rodrigo Duterte of Philippines. He loves these strong men dictatorial assholes. He even complimented Kim Jong-in. Yes, yes, he did. What do you make of it? Do you think he just wants to emulate them? Does he emulate their ability to wield absolute control?

Or is there something about... I think he's really jealous from the fact that other people have absolute power and people cannot speak against them. Right. I make a joke about this. Like, for the first time in history, I see an American president looking to our Egyptian president asking him for advice. Yeah, that's true.

Like, hey, Cici boy, how do you bend the law? And Cici will be like, what law? Cici. God. He, I mean, Mubarak and C.C. were both propped up by state-run media that just doesn't allow a dissent. You joked about it earlier. I think a lot of people over here feel like Fox News increasingly looks and feels a hell of a lot like state-run TV. Do you ever watch Foxx? Like, how does it come there? Yeah, but here's the difference. The Citron media, it's state-run media. It is funded and controlled by the state. Fox News is not state-run. It is private. And it is run by whatever dark interests of the underground lord of hell. I think hell is a private entity, but it is just fox and friends and Sean Hannity are the most spineless, despicable creatures I've ever seen in my life. Seriously, it's just, you know, they were ridiculous during Bush. Yeah. They were ridiculous during Obama, but it was Trump. No,

I think if they, if you have Satan himself running for the Republican Party, they would just like go with it. think I know why. And it applies to Fox and it applies to the hardcore Trump supporters. They are not Trump supporters and they're not Republican supporters. They are left-wing haters. So whoever comes in that position, they would support him. I think Van Jones once said, CNN contributor, he said something that really, really resonated. He said, Donald Trump for his supporters are like O.G Simpson for black.

people a lot of black people knew that he did it but they still were rooting for him because they didn't like him they knew that he was a doucheback they hated the LAPD right oh yeah absolutely and rightly so at that time exactly so the thing is it's just divisive whoever can come and increase the divisiveness the guy is a millionaire who's supported by low-income people the guy is not religious and he's supported by religious people it doesn't make any sense. He is a bully for them. We're talking. You have all these thoughtful political insights and observations. And I realize that, in fact, some of our best political satirists have not

grown up in America. We have John Oliver came up in England. Samantha B. grew up in Canada. Trevor Noah is from South Africa. And John Stewart from New Jersey. From New Jersey. So from a comedian's point of view, I mean, does that kind of experience a bit of an outside looking and help you find what's funny in a place like the U.S.? I mean, it really helps when you come from a different perspective because I think this is a part of a diversity of opinions, right?

And when you come from a place with a different set of opinions, different set of political rules, you come here and you open up in America. America is, you know what, we say horrible things about this country all the time, but America is a very fertile ground for ideas. And if you come from a different place, the soil here allows it to grow. And this is the good thing about the states. It's just, I don't think it's a melting path. I think it's more of a beautiful,

fertile land for ideas and opportunity. You plant it, you work on it, and it grows. And when you bring your experience from a different country, people here like different, like someone who's talking to them in a different sense. And this is again, and this is something again, I'm going to catch myself complimenting about Americans. I think Americans is one of the very few people in the world,

not of course all of them, but a lot of them, that they like to hear other people's opinions, even satire. jokes about them. I mean I arrived here and said like what do you think we could do seriously you're asking me the guy coming from a dictatorship I mean if I had better ideas I would have had my own country but they are very open for people to tell them to voice their opinion about this country and you're doing stand-up now right in English yes I'm doing stand-up in English which is very scary for some American with this accent but I'm having a comedy residency in

Joe's pub in New York it's been going well and and the white people are here and then They're not running out of the door, which is great. Not yet. Not yet, yes. I mean, wait for my second act. And it's great because Jim Jeffries from Australia, you have many comedians who come from different parts of the world and they come to him.

And you know, this reminds me with Egypt in its prime. Egypt was always called the Hollywood of the East where all of the Arab talents, the singers, the comedians, the actors would come to Egypt and they would be treated like Egyptians. And this is why the cinema industry in Egypt, the music industry in Egypt, who's just flourished even before three quarters of the Arab War even got their independence from colonization. And this is a great lesson, not in comedy, but in diversity, and giving the chance for more

people to come here and practice their talent and practice their craft. Right. Because it always pays back. Right. Okay. Your jokes were so good that you helped take down. Muhammad Worsi who was the democratically elected president of Bichick take some credit I I know no here's the thing because my jokes didn't take him down it says him alienating

the people that took him down he alienated the people and he made people unfortunately disbelief in the democratic experience because the he and his people the Muslim Brotherhood thought that democracy means that once you get majority, you can do whatever you want in the country. Right. That's not democracy. Change the Constitution. Do all kinds of stuff.

Yeah, you can do that. You can do that. You can do that. Democracy is basically the most important thing about democracy is protecting people who don't have a voice. Right. And they don't understand that. So the thing is, they alienated the people.

I made fun of them. And in turn, they made fun of me in their own shows. They had Islamic media, Islamic shows, and they tore me apart as much as I tore them apart. But the thing is, when they were taken down, because you cannot acknowledge their own fault, they started to blame the Joker, to blame the comedian. And this idea, this narrative that I took down the regime was a little bit exaggerated.

And even the people who are pro-military, who hated the Muslim Brotherhood, believe that kind of narrative. And I was very adamant of saying, no, I didn't do that. I just did my job as a satirist. And then I was a national hero until I made my first episode under the military.

I made fun of the military and overnight I turned from a national hero to public enemy number one. Yeah, it's really stark in the film. Yes. Looks scary. I became a traitor. I can tell you about personal stories that didn't make it to the movie where I would walk in places that I was like revered and respected and people who walk like looked the other way or spit on the floor.

It was just like very, very over. Yeah, I bet. And as I told you that parts of my family didn't even like agree with me. And it was very difficult, like the idea, but I can't, they wanted me to continue making fun of the Muslim Brotherhood after they were even jailed or being put to prison or tortured or had to flee. Yeah. There's a new sheriff in town now. You should direct your democracy. And the thing is neither the Muslim Brotherhood acknowledged that I did enough under the military.

And either the military acknowledged that I was doing my job. And they even trivialized what I did under the Muslim Brotherhood. And they accused me of like being in cahoots with the Muslim Brotherhood, that this was all an act. No, seriously. I mean, can I tell you the craziest conspiracy theory that ever been propagated about me? And this was not just like a word of mouth. That was written in black and white on one of the most circulated newspapers in Egypt. The theory goes like this, that there were two officers from the CIA, two agents, that printed an apartment in downtown Cairo. And they were training me in order to use satire to bring down the religious.

regime, bring down the country, the state. Because the CIA is hilarious. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. It didn't finish it. And they recruited John Stewart in order to personally. Okay, okay. Well, now it makes sense. Now that makes sense because, you know, they needed a claw.

So John Stewart put a flaw. That is pathetic. That is almost as pathetic as talking shit about Hillary Clinton in her emails a year and a half later. It's just, come on. Listen, you're a thoughtful, humble guy. So I'm just going to edit all that shit out and say, again, that your jokes took down Mohammed Morsi. So I want to read you some jokes and I want you to tell me if they're going to end the Trump presidency, okay? Donald Trump is so stupid. It takes him two hours to watch 60 minutes.

I would believe that because I would be gone. Is he gone? Halfway. So obviously that sucked, and I copied it from some knock-knock joke website. But like, do you think satire in the U.S. holds the same power in Egypt? Because there is no shortage of mocking Trump. But, But sometimes the backlash to the joke maybe becomes more politically potent. And so I at times feel rudderless because we flip out about Michelle Wolfe for a couple weeks after the White House correspondence dinner and yet don't focus on all the things she said that are true. All right. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Here's the thing about satire and its role in politics in general, whether in Egypt, but particularly in America. I think that we have romanticized the power of satire too much that we forgot that the path in changing the power is voting. Because here's what happens. We put so much pressure on satirist. We put so much pressure on John Stewart, John Oliver, Samantha Bee, Michelle Wolf, da-da-da-da. And then at the end, waiting for things to happen on their own. And the reason for this is that you see people sharing Samantha B, Michelle Wolf, Trevor None, John Oliver, you see people taking to the streets for the women's march,

750,000 people take the streets to Los Angeles carrying signs and putting pussy hats. And then two weeks later, you have an election, local elections in Los Angeles, and only 12% shows up. Right, right, right. This is the problem. If you think that satire alone is the solution, you are going to see another four years of Trump. Agreed. Because here's the thing. People are sitting on their asses.

thinking that by watching the satirist by sharing the clips on youtube by going into the streets and posing for instagram for funny signs and for uh being so vocal and singing whatever that that doesn't do shit it increases awareness it shows solidarity but if you don't do it make it to the battle don't trump didn't win wisconsin democrats lost wisconsin because people didn't show up to vote Correct. Same thing happened in Pennsylvania. Same thing happened in many in Michigan. And the same thing happened in 2004 with John Kerry.

People didn't show up to vote. And this is what happens. If you track all the times where a Republican president won in the last 20 years, it was because Democrats were very reluctant to vote. Republicans has a very solid court that always votes. If you see the statistics, it was not the increase of people. people voting for Trump as much as of the decrease of people voting for Hillary Clinton. Yeah, we got to get people inspired.

Yeah, okay. Yeah, so yes, satire is great. It's inspires. But nobody will go up tomorrow and say a joke on a Trevor Noah or Samantha B or whatever, and then we're going to see Trump impeached the next day. Yeah, I agree with that. That doesn't happen. I totally agree with that.

So it's just like I think we as people working in satire and comedy, I think we should not take that as much credit as we should. We are comedians and we are trying to bring. more dull, more serious topics in a funny way so we can bring more people on the table so they can listen. So you know this very famous saying, like prayer don't change things.

Prayer change people and people change things. That's it. It's the people who have to do it. And you have a very clear path, voting. But at the end of the day, if you are just so concerned over your goddamn Instagram post because you are like wearing like a funny ad,

like Trump and fucking and then when voting comes and you fucking say, sit in your house, Trump is going to sit there for another four years and he's going to be the one laughing at you. Yeah, that's right. And I know why I speak so passionately about this? Because in Egypt, we don't have this opportunity to change things through voting because that is taking away from us.

Yeah, it's right. You still have it. You still have it. And it doesn't matter how much money the Koch brother put in, the money, the lobbyist or the NRA. If you go and vote for your man against those fuckers, there's not a $20 billion, not $100 million dollars from the Koch brothers, the NRA will actually make any difference because now they're not going to make it to the Senate. That's right. All the Congress. That's right. That's right.

Get me all fired up over here. Yeah, baby. When you look at Egypt today compared to 2010, how do you feel about the process and what the people of Egypt have gone through? I mean, better, worse, incomplete. And do you think we're now stuck with CC until he dies or hands over the reins to the next military strongman? It is possible. It is quite possible. And here's the thing. what how is the first of all in general it is worse and I think it is worse not because the revolution is in mistake because it just it happened in the French revolution the rules came back it happened when Cromer took over England and then the king came back it's a revolution is not an event it's a process and I always say this but here's the problem with

the situation in Egypt right now for the first time in history Egypt is supported not just by the United States, it's supported by money from the Gulf and supported by, guess what, the Israeli lobby in the Congress. Cici is best friends with Israel right now because Israel is just having this guy who's just like giving them everything they want. So he is supported by Israel, he's supported by Saudi Arabia, he's supported by the old shitholes back there and the assholes in Congress and the lobbies in the military. So I don't know what will happen.

will it be a coup, will it be an assassination, whatever. But he is pretty much supported with money, with political power, with lobbyists. I don't know what will happen. I mean, because the last eight years just, like, made me not be able to predict for anything. But here's what I can tell you. It will get much worse before it can get better. Yeah, I think that's how these things tend to go, right? Yeah.

I want to ask you about your podcast. The show is remade in America with Boston Music. How is it going? What will people find when they listen? Tell me all about it. So when I wanted to do the podcast, people wanted me to do a podcast about immigrants. And I said, that's cute, but I don't want this only to be about immigrants because everybody is an immigrant. I don't want this to be like another brown guy coming from a different country who made it here in America.

I wanted to be about an outsider experience. And you don't have to be an immigrant to be an outsider. You could be a white man born in the middle of America who felt growing up. He is an outsider. That's why I have on my show immigrants like Masjubrani who was brought up in America at the age of six and he came in at the same time when the Iran hostage crisis happened. And you have someone like Barton de Thurston

and African-American comedian and activist. You have Sheila Nevins, the queen of HBO documentaries are just recorded with her. Amazing, amazing story. You have a communist vicetu, LGBTQ comedian. All of these people have amazing stories of growing up struggling against odds,

struggling against constrictions, struggling against society, religions, politics, and they made it because I believe that anybody who was successful had to be an outsider somehow and had to struggle his way in or make his path out. So that's the stories. It's like human stories, man.

I like that. That sounds great. Well, so everyone should subscribe to... Absolutely, baby. Remade in America. with Boston Yusuf. And then check out Tickling Giants. It's a fantastic documentary. It's just a good story.

But then it's also like a moment in history that I think is not well understood, but critically important to understand. Thank you. And dude, and invite me to your next live podcast. Please. It'll be fun. It'll be much more fun than the weird panel we did at Politicon where everyone shouted at that one right-wing litig.

That sucked. Boston, thank you so much for making time. I really appreciate it. And see in LA. See you soon. Thank you. That's it for the honeymoon edition of Pate of the World.

Thank you again. I will be back in studio next week, tan, fatter, and ready to talk with you guys. Thanks. Have a good one.