Podcast Archive - StorageReview.com - Podcast #135: Modern DaaS with Amazon Thin Clients

Episode Date: November 25, 2024

Amazon WorkSpaces delivers a compelling alternative to traditional desktops. This week, Brian follows up… The post Podcast #135: Modern DaaS with Amazon Thin Clients appeared first on StorageReview.com.

Hey everyone, thank you for tuning into the podcast. We've had a great conversation today, I think coming up between myself and Melissa with Amazon on what's the latest thing going on with their thin clients and desktop as a service and all of the changes that are going on in the industry. There's a lot happening there, but also there are many, many new solutions available as well. We're going to get into all that, talk about that. Melissa, thanks for hopping in with us today. Well, Brian, thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to talk about everything new

that we have going on in end-user computing. All right. So that'll be our focus, but fix me up on the branding first, because I'm so used to calling everything AWS, but what's the latest branding look like for your cloud offerings for end user? So it is AWS. So it's AWS end user computing. And then when we talk about our individual services, like workspaces, It's Amazon workspaces. We have the Amazon workspaces family. We have Amazon AppStream and we have Amazon workspaces than client. So it is under the Amazon brand, but under the AWS umbrella. Yeah. I mean, I've got a bad brain. Once I get myopically focused on one thing, it's really hard to retrain. So that's good. We'll know what you're talking about. We'll know. We'll know.

Good point of clarity. So thin client is actually where we started out in this recent content series with you guys. I've got one sitting on the desk here. And this little device, I think Tom, who does most of our end user computing work for remote desktop, got one of these in. You sent one to us too. And Kevin, who runs our lab, opened it up and he said, who ordered a Fire Cube? It's not a Fire Cube, but you obviously can't get past the visual relationship there. What is going on with this thin client?

And what did you guys set out to do when you designed this? So if we just step back a second, when we thought about it, we talked to tons of customers. They had, especially those running contact centers or who had workers that are not like the highest end developers doing high-end graphics applications, they had an issue with a lot of turnover in these more contract, more hourly roles. And they were still giving them these very high-powered, expensive laptops. And sometimes, right, they would have these people join. Like literally, I've talked to multiple customers where they're like, we have these contact center agents, they're joining. They're staying two or three weeks, they get their laptop and they leave and a laptop goes back with them. So right, so

that's a cost issue. It's a security issue. And we're like, we can we can do a lot better, right? We run virtual desktops, we can keep everything in the cloud. So why don't we pair that up with a very secure device and actually make it a fraction of the cost? So then coming to what you said about the Fire TV Cube, we're like, well, it's Amazon, right? To your earlier thing, a bigger Amazon. Amazon has Amazon devices. And we have these devices in millions and millions of homes. So they're tried and true devices. What could we do to potentially repurpose one of these devices so we could pass on that cost savings to our customers?

So that's what we did. The shell is Fire TV Cube. It is. The operating system, the firmware, vastly changed. You can't, this is not an entertainment device anymore. You're not going to manage it with a remote control. You need to be able to use a headset and a webcam and a keyboard. It has to function like a desktop. And so that's where we've actually made a lot of enhancements. So yeah, it might look like the Fire TV Cube. It is definitely not the Fire TV Cube. It's Workspace's thin client.

Yeah. Kevin's a bit of a savage and mine's missing the bottom plate that would have said- AWS, you started ripping things off, huh? Yeah. Well, he tore off the bottom, which had the branding on it. And then we took it apart for the review. And incidentally, if you want to learn more about this thin client, we do have a full review on the site and I will link to it in the description so everyone can find that and check it out. It's a good read. The one thing that I think is really interesting, though, is that you talk about re-engineering

what you had. So you're not starting at zero. And for your mission, I assume, was to get something out in a shorter time window than it would have been starting at zero to engineer something. But you really focused on security and affordability too. And I know you were talking about thin client versus issuing laptops to these people, which seems crazy when you know that turnover is going to be high. Retrieving those systems has got to be a nightmare.

This does seem to solve that problem, but with a secure interface or access, too. Can you talk a little bit more about security? Because I think a lot of employers, especially in environments where there's massive turnover, worry a lot about that and about making sure the remote workers especially are able to connect in a secure way. And sorry about the little visitor in the room. So hopefully he's okay. He cares a lot about security as well. So yeah. So when we think about security, first off, we wanted to make sure the data isn't resident on the device. That is one of the things about laptops. They let bad data in.

You can sideload applications. There's malware. And they let good data out. There's a lot of data exfiltration. I was just actually reading the Verizon report that they put every year out on security, their 2024 report, 25% of all data breaches are happening in the web. And these things are coming down and people are bringing that onto their actual physical devices. So what we said is, first, let's make sure there's no data on the device. So with the virtual desktops, whether it's Workspace's personal, Workspace's pool, Workspace's secure browser, all of that is encrypted and it's in the cloud.

The device itself, it boots straight to Workspace's. So you're not going to have any ability to kind of like go in in front, try to load a website or load anything else. You're taken directly to boot into and to log into the virtual desktop. In addition, it's hardware-based authentication. We have a secure chip on the device, and we purposely made sure that you couldn't use removable media. So let's say you're just sticking that thumb drive, it's going to say device not supported. And so we took all of that, took the hardware aspects, took the data aspects and really said, you know what,

let's make sure that this is secure. And we're not going to stop there too. We're continuously going to be adding additional security features. So it's important with modern workforces being highly distributed now more than ever. I mean, the pandemic accelerated that, but it was happening already, as you guys are well aware. For devices like this, is the purchasing motion, get on board a new employee, and part of that, it activates one of these orders and it's delivered to their home if they're not in office. I suppose, has that challenge of a remote workforce, obviously Amazon is clearly a fulfillment company,

if nothing else, right? Can you talk about how that flow of devices works or maybe what a modern version of that looks like for your customers? Definitely, Brian. So when we thought about, too, one of the issues that people were having, and when we originally conceived this, right,

it didn't come out till later, but your original concept, this is the time of supply chain issues, right? So just go back three years, and we're like, oh my God, right, could you get anything? Could you get your Christmas gifts? Could you, right? The supply chain was a big issue. And that was really apparent in computing devices. So you have this

workforce, it's like, you can't do your job without a device, and they can't get a device to them. So we also wanted to tackle that. And that's why through the think client is available on Amazon business. So it ships directly from the fulfillment center to either somebody's office or to their home location. So it doesn't matter. Like if you were going to go buy a hundred of these, you could put it in a hundred different addresses and it will fan out to all, you know, to all a hundred people, no matter where they are. And then again, from Amazon fulfillment and especially, you know, if they, if they use

some of like the Amazon business prime services and some of those, it's going to get there very quickly at no additional charge. Because Amazon Business Prime is very similar to Amazon Prime. But even if they don't have that, it will still go directly to the specific end user. And that's also too, because of remote work, we wanted to make sure everything was registered over the air. So you get that device

that you held up. You have, let's say if you're the end user, your administrator has assigned you to a certain environment. Your environment could be your location. It could be that you are in the marketing department. It could be that you are in contact center west, right? However they define it. That then gives you an activation code. So whether you're a new employee or you're an employee that's already there that we're going to shift this device, you know, you're going to kind of shift to this device, you get this activation code, you're brought up a screen, you enter it, and that's what registers the device to the company. So everything is done over the air, really, really simply. Like simplicity was one of the key things we were striving for with this product.

Well, I think if I recall, when we unboxed the Thin Client the first time, it ships in a nice sort of consumer packaging feel, right? So it's comfortable, I think, to the end user when they get it. It's not an intimidating piece of technology. I don't think so. Anyway, and if I remember, there's a little card or maybe like a little fold out booklet that's very much step one, two, three. It's really simple. I mean, I think even for non-technical users at this point, we're all pretty familiar with plugging in power and display. And if you need, I know you've got versions with USB hubs,

if they're going to be in a role with, you know, that needs that expandability. But yeah, getting online is, for the end user is very easy. Yeah, we actually set that as a goal. We wanted someone to be able to unbox it and then to be able to actually access their desktop and their applications in under five minutes.

And honestly, it takes about a minute or two minutes, unless you need to crawl under the desk and that's the extra three minutes because you can't access your power plug. But yeah, just like you said, there's a visual brochure. We created a video. We wanted to make sure that the help desk, the IT help desk did not need to help the people because that's one of the issues too with supporting remote or hybrid workers is that your IT team is not always there to help you. So it really had to be as simple so the end user could do it themselves. So let's talk about that from an IT perspective, because we did the other side too. We set up desktops and provisioned them and ran them out of a couple locations in our office and through our satellites.

But desktop delivery is fundamentally changing right now. There's, I mean, our audience knows, you guys know, there's all sorts of questions around how Horizon goes forward. There's been pricing changes with Citrix. There's been so much disruption in the whole virtualized world right now that perhaps the dust is settling. But a lot of organizations are trying to figure out how to do this thing we used to call VDI. I think you guys are a little more aligned with desktop as a service. But at a high level, what are you seeing there in terms of the changes in the industry and how modern

forward-thinking organizations should be thinking about how to deliver desktop experiences to their users? So I almost like to say what is old is new again, because when you think about the thin client, right, it's a much cuter version of what used to be a dumb terminal, right? I mean, the reality is you don't need, for most workers, you don't need all of that storage, all of that compute power. And I'm not gonna say for everyone, right? It's not for everyone, but for a lot of workers, you don't need that. You need is a simple, easy to use device

where that power, that storage, that compute goes to the cloud. And if you think about, even if you are a developer, AI is changing so fast, you need to be able to access the best AI chips, the different instance types, the ability to develop. You're not going to be able to change out to a new AI PC every six months with how fast AI is going. So the idea that you can have all of that power in the cloud and make the endpoint, the physical device in front of you so simple, as I said, I think we're almost, we're going, you know, in some ways back to that real simplicity

of what, I don't know, I was, I don't want to say I wasn't a kid, but you know, I guess 20, 30 years ago, right? The, the, you know, the dumb terminals, I think that's where things are heading. And I think the last thing is like, it just has to be simple. When we think about building a virtual desktop, it needs to feel like it's not. So whether that's performance or how it's used, it has to feel like you're using something locally. Well, and that was always the drag with VDI, right? And why it was always hard to get, you talk about some of the premium user use cases. Those guys never wanted it. Execs never wanted it because it wasn't mobile. I mean, the performance wasn't there, YouTube's laggy, I can't get my email fast enough. Like all those common objections

that have really been mitigated quite a bit over time, some of it just by infrastructure, right? Better internet, better wifi, better 5G or whatever, but also better instances. I mean, I know in the workspaces work we did most recently, which we'll link to that piece as well, we were focused more on task workers. But there are instances, GPU instances in there that we messed around with one of the T4 ones a little bit. I believe it was, but there's several others in there.

The barrier through the Amazon workspaces offerings to get the new stuff, as you say, is really pretty low. And for IT administrators, it's easy to connect those users to the right desktop. And at the same time, to not overpay for resources you don't need, which is also important, I would think. Yeah. I mean, the fact is you want to scale up and scale down. So whether it's, you know, the con back to like the task worker, right. That's a, that's an always on, right. You're going to be every day, all day long connected. You may, you may actually need a little bit more power than you think. Some of these video conferencing tools actually do need a lot of power. What, what is amazingly interesting as I've talked to a lot of contact centers, is to note that you think, oh, it's just a phone call, right? It's just audio. Well,

what's interesting is that they will have audio video running on one monitor. So their manager is watching the audio call they're taking on their other screen. So there is, you know, there is that need for certain situations to have a lot of power there. And again, you can actually change that. It's very, very flexible. Or as I mentioned at the very beginning, these contract workforces, like, you know, some are 30, 40. I've talked to customers over 100% turnover, right? You have to be, yeah. So scaling up, scaling down, remotely resetting, again, back to security, so scaling up scaling down remotely resetting again back to security right be able to remotely reset or remotely deregister someone from a device very very important so i think you know when you think about you know all of these things that kind of

you know come to bear from like the highest of the workloads to the low end, which is not so low end anymore. You need to have that agility. It's funny, we just had this debate on social media, I posted a video on our channels about a 2U rack workstation and looks a lot like a server has a lot of client bits inside workstation GPUs. But there's a whole fundamental argument over what is a workstation and does it have to be under your desk for it to qualify? And what I was trying to talk to some people about is that, you know, there's a lot of reasons why you wouldn't want a $40,000 workstation under an employee's desk. It's loud, it's expensive, there's a lot of data, gravity challenge to get access to if they're doing AI or GIS or any of these other high-end workloads to get access to the corporate data can be problematic. And then, I mean, shipping these all over the world conceivably to get them in places is difficult and cumbersome and high risk and data security challenges and all of these other things.

So putting that stuff in the data center is a move that a lot of organizations are looking at. And then I guess when you look at what Amazon's doing by offering some of these high-end instances as well is one step further. Don't worry, organization, about investing in all that infrastructure and making sure it's used because that's the thing that really drives a lot of organizations crazy is when they spend so much money on that physical workstation for one person to use seven, eight, nine hours a day, whatever it is, not at all, maybe on the weekends. And then the rest of the time it sits idle and does nothing. It could be highly inefficient in terms of allocating capital resources and then managing access and everything else. I think a lot of those challenges are what you aim to strip away within client and workspaces. Definitely. I mean, you should be able to scale up and scale down however you need. So whether that's a type of resource, so as we were talking about like, okay, I need GPUs. You don't need GPUs

40 hours a week, right? So you need like, well, most people don't, right? So figuring out by the resource as your workforce changes, right? Scale up, right? So, you know, what, you know, figuring out by the resource as your workforce changes, right? Scale up, right? You have, you know, we have customers who have a lot of peak workloads, right? So whether they are, let's say the tax season, or right now we're in open enrollment, right? A lot of customers in these regulated industries, health, health insurance, right? They're scaling up right now. They're bringing on a huge amount of workforce.

They can do that and they can do it in just minutes. They can do it so quickly. And, you know, whether they're on the thin client or, you know, for some cases, if they still have their, you know, they bring their own device, workspace is great in that situation as well. Very secure. And then when that season's over, right, they can just tap it down. They didn't have this huge idle, you know, server hardware investment, and it really helps them optimize their costs overall. Yeah. So, you know, what, what scale does this make sense at? Because we've talked a little bit around the edges of that, but I guess you can buy one thin client and one instance on workstation. Yes, you can. Okay. So we can go from one to the biggest, but where's the sweet spot for where you can

help an organization? I mean, we're seeing kind of twofold. So we are right now, the thin client still in its first year, we're seeing a lot of smaller contact centers back office. So we're seeing a lot of several, you know, hundreds, several hundred. We do obviously have customers in the few thousand, but we're seeing a lot of these like either smaller BPOs or particular workloads. You have like a hundred here and a hundred there. So a lot in the 100 to 1,000 range, a few in the several thousand range. Now, of course, workspaces. Workspaces has been here for a decade. We have lots of customers who are running tens, like literally tens of thousands of workspaces.

And so it really depends, I think, on the workload. When I talk to customers, it's always like, what are you trying to accomplish? Who are your users? What's the workload? That's why we have an entire family of services. So a lot of times with the thin client now, what we're seeing is about four months ago, about four months ago, we, four to five months, we launched workspaces pools. So in addition to workspaces that we've had for a while, workspaces now we call personal, which is that persistent desktop. So, you know, if you're writing a line of code or you're creating, it's going to go exactly back to where you left it. With pools, you have another cost optimization because it's more of an ephemeral desktop. Not everyone has to have a desktop that's completely persistent. That's just like a laptop.

So they're using a lot of web-based apps. If you're contact-centered, they don't really even want you. Contacts are what we talked about. They want you rebooting overnight. They want you coming almost like everything's fresh. Right. And so for that, we have workspaces pools. And the one nice thing about this device, kind of take a little bit of a segue, is because this is our end user computing services and we've built this device, unlike some other products out there, we can actually support it right away.

So as workspaces or workspaces pools, and they add this new functionality, there's not a huge cycle, right? We are the same, you know, we are, we've built both pieces. So we immediately get access to all of that new functionality. So yeah, if they want to do multi-session, they want to do ephemeral, that stuff that we can add and support for on the device very quickly. Is this something that's supported globally or in other areas? I didn't even contemplate that when we were looking at this the first time around. Obviously, we're in the U.S., but are there other, is this widely supported in other regions? Yes. So that is a thing with hardware. So hardware, you need to make sure that you have

all the hardware compliance. There's different rules and regulations in different countries. That was one of the nice things, again, about using Fire TV Cube is that had gone through a lot of compliance, right? It is in several countries. So right now we are in six countries and we are about to expand. I can't go forward, but we are about to expand into more. So we are in the US, the UK, Italy, Germany, France, and Spain. So going into other parts of the world very, very soon. In the data center world, we find that there are a lot of trends in the US, but if you go to Europe or other places where maybe energy is more expensive, for instance, their data center trends can be a little bit different. They're often early adopters on liquid cooling and things like that because they have fixed space, increased TDPs on these chips.

And so they're having to deal with different things. In the desktop delivery world, are there different geographical issues that are different than what we would see in the U.S.? I'm just sort of curious if there's anything you've learned from Italy, for instance, that maybe we should be thinking about. I mean, there's just different, there's some different regulations. So obviously, there's data regulations, but that's going to be regardless of the device. But as you mentioned, and I do want to bring up, is sustainability. Sustainability matters a lot. You see a lot of companies have put sustainability initiatives in place, whether it is in Europe or US. They're not really meeting these goals yet.

The adoption is still really low. So that is one of the things that people start going, okay, I really need to be thinking about how much energy I'm using. How do I create a more sustainable working environment? This device recently got its Carbon Trust certification. So it's very, very low emissions on the device. It's 56% recycled material. And then when we think about this compared to your laptop, like in full use, like you're running audio video,

it's running at six watts. When it's asleep, it's at one and a half watts. So it's like a 10th or less than a 10th of what a laptop is using in terms of energy. So that has actually come up a lot. You know, I wasn't hearing it so much two, three years ago. I wish I was, but now I am hearing, you know, how is this sustainable? Can I recycle it? Which you actually can recycle the device through Amazon second chance, but we are hearing that a lot more. They're even thinking about with monitors, right? So most, nearly all contact centers, a lot of people are using two monitors.

But what I'm starting to see too is can I go ahead and use one bigger monitor in its place? Right. Yeah. You know, it's less energy usage. And so, you know, more recently we went from supporting 1080p monitors and two of those to supporting 4K, 2K and ultra wide. So we're giving people that, you know, that chance and really making sure we're supporting the peripherals they need to create a fully sustainable desktop. Well, I mean, the monitor thing makes a big difference. I know on my desk, I've got a giant widescreen. We get things in here for review all the time. And sometimes we lose the return labels.

So that's one that's been on my desktop for a long time. And it's so good. Really got a 10K? That's pretty nice. You got a 10K monitor. I can fit three windows wide so I've got like my main stuff here and then here and here all you know with with one power supply so you're right I guess when you think about some of the efficiencies that you get

from the monitors from the device itself from the efficiency of of one of your data centers versus you know standing up all that infrastructure in your own, which may not be potentially as efficient. I mean, there's definitely some upside there. Yeah, which is curious. Two, the device you've got now, like you said, it's only been out a few months. What's been the feedback with the customers that have used these, that have put these to work? So a few things. Wow, that was easy. Like literally, I took my workspaces environment and I connected it to the device, got the

activation, got one minute, right? So same thing, AppStream, one minute. The ability to take your existing, you know, EUC VDI environment, UC Dallas environment and connect it up and have it working so fast. We've also recently introduced a compatibility check or two to make it really, really simple. And we've seen that very, very well received. It just, again, the administrators are like, this is easy. We were, you know, even with, you know, and then we also kept hearing, oh, wow, these end users, they're just not technical at all.

I have had no cabling complaints whatsoever. So those little packets, that little hello, that's worked really well. And then I also want to say cost. So, you know, some of our biggest customers, one of our biggest customers that, you know, we'll be talking about a little bit of reInvent. Not sure I can like, you know, say divulge too soon, but they said they've seen 75% cost reduction at the end point. So, yeah, because again, they were giving laptops to

all of these contact center agents. And they were turning over, they're not a BPO, so they weren't having the massive, massive turnover rates, but the turnover was still very, very important. And the CIO, because we did work with the CIO of the big company, he's like, I'm putting myself on the line here. I think I can create better security, more cost effective. So the cost factor has really been a big one because when you think about it too, it's not even just the cost of the device, right?

When you get all those laptops and you're storing them in a hallway, right? You have to store them somewhere, right? They're not necessarily going to where the end user is. You just have to have a whole bunch of these, you know, boxes available. It's all the extra software, right? People aren't using VPN. They don't need VPN with this, right? So you don't have to manage the VPN with the cost of the VDI, 25, 50, or even 75% less than what they were paying with just a regular laptop. Well, look, it makes sense. The cost of these units, even in quantity one, is relatively low.

So picking one up is not really a challenge. But I guess there is probably a new challenge that always happens with technology like this is an organization deploys dozens or hundreds or thousands of these for task workers that are doing really well. And then they say, okay, well, where else can we take this? So I know you won't be able to talk about it much, but clearly you guys launched this device, it's going well, and that should encourage you probably to create more devices or be thinking about how to go after larger use cases, I would guess.

Is that on the radar, more robust versions? Yeah, all I'll say is, right, this was never meant to be a singular device, right? We are, you know, making sure that we build something that our customers love, that end users, right? So, you know, it's not just the IT guys. It's like the end users need to be able to be very comfortable with the device. And so, you know, the strategy is a series of devices. Is there anything more I can divulge at this time? No. But again, never meant to just be one and done. Well, that's good. I mean, there's clearly a lot of options

in thin client hardware, but at the same time, there's been a big contraction in that space too. And there's plenty of areas where we see for innovation to deliver different form factors, different capabilities. There's still a lot that can be done there. So it'll be exciting to see what you guys do. You mentioned reInvent. I know you've got a session that reInvents, gosh, right around the corner, right after Thanksgiving, isn't it? It is. So yeah, we always like Thanksgiving, you know, enjoy your turkey. Get your shopping in. And by Sunday afternoon, you know, we're all flying off to Vegas. So it starts the evening of December 1st and goes through that whole week.

And you're doing a session on Thin Client? I am. So on December 3rd, 2.30 in the afternoon at the Mandalay Bay, I'm going to be talking about how you can boost contact center efficiency. So I have talked a lot today about contact center. And we're going to talk about how you can boost efficiency with the thin client and workspaces. And what we haven't talked about, too, is we also have a great contact center, product contact centers of service with Connect. So really rethinking that that agent desktop and how we like to call basically a contact center in a box.

Make it simple. Unbox it. Plug it in. Ready to go. And of course, with, you know, Connect, because what would be a a podcast without talking about ai so connect is very uh ai focused everything from ai based analytics to help the managers to help the performance of their crew to integrating amazon queue so that the agents can have automated responses so they can better help the customers that they're serving so we're going to talk about how all those different products come together. Well, I mean, I think for anyone, which is all of us that have called an 800 number or tried to talk to the chat customer service, we all want that to be a better experience. So anything you can do there will be much appreciated.

And I think the world will rejoice over that one. But I mean, it's important because you think about a customer's primary point of interface, if they're having a problem or a question with the order or need to change a reservation or, you know, the other thousand scenarios when you call in, that's the time where you really need things to work. You do. And that's why we go through so much testing you know we you know we i obviously you know we dog food it right i i use the device every day i use it you know most of it every day right unless i'm like you know traveling i i have that device i have it on my i'm lucky enough i have it on my desk at home and i have it on my desk at work

because we do right you know it's cheap enough that you can actually have it in two locations. But we're constantly, you know, pushing the edge. How do we make performance better? Like one thing that we did in the last year is that there, you know, there's multiple cores on the device. And so for certain types of applications, we actually pin them to the higher performing cores. We call this core pinning. So we are constantly looking at how do we create great audio, great video experience. Again, making sure that things like, again, we have some features coming out of secure browser very, very shortly too. Like how can we continuously secure the browser experience?

Think about how to reduce data exfiltration. So we're constantly pushing that there and testing these and testing them all together as a singular service so that, yeah, you got your customer support. Nothing should get in the way of you needing to return or buy or get whatever question you need answered from that contact center agent. That sounds neat. I haven't worked in a contact center, but I can appreciate the challenges that must go on there. So anything, again, that you can do to facilitate that and make customer interactions better, we're all for.

So this has been a great chat. I've learned a lot through this process. We get so focused sometimes on hardware stuff that looking at the bigger ecosystem with what you're doing on the thin client on the device side, plus what's going on workspaces has been really great. And we, like I said, we've got a report on both of those things. We'll link to those in the description. We'll link to the reInvent session so you can learn more if you happen to be in Vegas after Thanksgiving, which I've been to the show several times. It's one of the neat shows where you think about AWS as a cloud entity, and it really obviously is cloud first. But there's so many great examples on the expo floor of using physical devices with the cloud, all sorts of robotics, the edge data with snowballs and things like the thin client for delivering desktop.

So it's a really is a great event and a fun way if you're a tech nerd to close out your, your, your trade show year in December with a stop at reinvent in Vegas, but check that out. We've got all the links, as I said, and thanks for doing the podcast.

This was, this was great. I appreciate your time. Thank you, Brian. I'm again, so happy to be here and talk with you and hope to talk to you again soon. Sweet. We'll be happy to have you.