Podcrushed - 92NY Presents: Podcrushed LIVE (with Modern Love’s Anna Martin)

Episode Date: July 30, 2025

This week's episode was recorded live at the 92nd Street Y in New York City! It was an intimate evening with beloved New York Times Modern Love podcast host Anna Martin exploring the tender, turbulent terrain of adolescence and its lasting impact on our lives. In this special conversation, Penn, Nava, and Sophie welcomed Anna for a night of storytelling about the universal threads that connect our coming-of-age experiences. And preorder our new book, Crushmore, here: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Crushmore/Penn-Badgley/9781668077993   Want more from Podcrushed? Follow our social channels here: Insta: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedInsta TikTok: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedTikTok X: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedTwitter   You can follow Penn, Sophie and Nava here: Insta:   / pennbadgley     / scribbledbysophie     / nnnava   Tik Tok:   / iampennbadgley     / scribbledbysophie     / nkavelin  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement. to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair, beef mash, lamb, pilaf, and turkey and chicken cookout. I mean, are you kidding me? I want to eat these recipes. Each recipe is cooked gently in small batches to seal in vital nutrients and maximize digestibility. And their recipes are crafted

by vet nutritionists. So I feel good knowing its design with Louis' health and happiness in mind. Serve nom nom nom as a complete and balanced meal or is a tasty and healthy addition to, you know, to your dog's current diet. My dogs are like my children, literally, which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best. Hold on, let me start again, because I've only been talking about Louie. Louis is my bait.

Louis, you might have heard him growl just now. Louis is my little baby, and I'm committed to only giving him the best. I love that Nom Nom Nom's recipes contain wholesome, nutrient-rich food, meat that looks like meat, and veggies that look like veggies, because, shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the Lamb-P-Laf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it, and he cannot get enough.

So he's a Lam-P-Laf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with NomNum, available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed, spelled try-n-O-M dot com slash podcrushed. A 15-year-old girl who chewed through a rope to escape a serial killer. I used my front teeth to saw on the rope in my mouth. He's been convicted of murdering two young women, but suspected of many more. Maybe there's another one in that area. And now, new leads that could solve these cold cases.

They could be a victim that we have no idea he killed. Stolen voices of Dull Valley breaks the silence on August 19th. Follow us now so you don't. Don't miss an episode. Lemonada. Hello and welcome, everyone. Weird, the lights are still up. I'm Tosh Greenlee, Senior Director of Nine to Nguise Reconati Kaplan Talks.

It's my pleasure to welcome you to Budweiser Hall at the Arnhol Center at the 92nd Street, Y, New York. We're excited for tonight's Collective by Nine to NY event. Penn Badgley, Navak Avalin, and Sophie Ansari in conversation with New York Times' modern love host, Anna Martin, Podcrushed. That's a nice place to clap. It is a joy to bring the intimacy and charm of the hit podcast, Podcrushed, to our stage this evening.

Exploring the tender and turbulent terrain of adolescence and its lasting impact on our lives, Pod Crush asks, who were our first crush? How did family dynamics help shape identity, and what were those moments that shook out social anxieties? These conversations are with many of your favorite cultural figures, artists, writers, and creatives of all style, like Michelle Boutotow, Eddie Redmayne, Adam Brody, and Taylor Tomlinson, to name a few. We're thrilled to have Anna Martin of the New York Times' This Modern Love Podcast as their conversation partner this evening. Yes, give her some love, too. A few quick bits of housekeeping.

We ask that you please don't video record this and no flash photography. We don't want to disturb our guest on stage or our fellow patrons. We also will collect your audience questions on index cards before our time ends. Please write clearly, include your first name, and try to stay on topic. Also, join us for upcoming events like Tina Faye and Will Forte for their new Netflix comedy series The Four Seasons, Jonathan Groff, as he brings the songs of Bobby Darren to Broadway and Nick Jonas on his new Broadway show the last five years.

For more information about our events, please follow us on Instagram at 92nd Street Y. As always, we appreciate your support and your time coming out to our events. And now, please join me in giving a very warm welcome to the co-hosts of Pod Crush and Anna Martin. Hello. Hello.

Hello. I am so excited to be here with you all in these comfortable chairs and can't figure out. Sorry, you know, when you're on like a talk show of any kind, you're always wondering what kind of chair it'll be in. Totally. This one is great.

This one is amazing. You heard it here first. The host of Pod Crushed, you all know, you probably listen. Pod Crush centers on stories from adolescents, from teenage years, specifically from middle school, although the scope of the show has expanded. We'll talk about that. But in the spirit of the show, I thought we would do a fun icebreaker, although that's a bit of an oxymoron.

I would love, for each of you, to introduce yourself to our friends here, and then introduce your middle school self, okay? Okay. An intake of breath from the audience. Penn, do you want to go first? Oh, okay. All right, so I'm Penn Badgely. Hello.

Yeah, sure. Pause for applause. Thank you. In one standing. Is it an ovation if it's one person? Is it? No, no, no, no, no, no. Okay, I mean, that's fine.

You're welcome to do what you please, but I didn't want to encourage. Was that idolatry? I'm not sure. What am I doing? I'm introducing my middle school self. Okay. Well, I was, I was, I might have been 10 when I started middle school, which is a little bit young.

Yeah, just, you know, short little chubby kid in the Pacific Northwest who was very, very, very, very quiet, very, very, very shy. But discovering a love for, am I supposed to be doing this in first person? Yes, yes. Any person you want. And I love acting. I love R&B music. I loved R&B music. That was like Drew Hill and Black Street were the two bands who, I mean, they really,

I knew every sound on those records. Let's see. That's, yeah, I loved music. I was discovering, performing, very, very shy. I was doing community theater. And so, you know, this, I would move to Hollywood by the time I, before I would finish middle school. Wow. And then that's a different, that's 12. That's 12. That's 12. So we're going to cut it off right there.

Sophie, please. Hi, I'm Sophie Ansari, and I obviously co-host with these two lovely friends. Another bow, please. You got it, actually. You're consistent, so that's good. I now support. You know, in middle school, you are asked to come up with an adjective that starts with the same letter as your name, a classic. Not a great icebreaker, honestly, but my go-to was silly Sophie.

That works. Yeah, yeah. You don't think I'm silly? Well, no. I don't know, but especially, did you, did you always go sick? Actually, you know, not, maybe not the hands, but yeah, the elongated silly. It works. No, but yeah, when I think about my middle school self, I honestly, like, the first thing that comes to mind is, like, a very, like, specific body posture and, like, weird voices.

And I had a silliness that I think I'm, like, always trying to get back to it. Yeah, and the body posture was this kind of crouched thing you're doing. Yes, like, I mean, I could get up and do it. it, but I won't. Maybe at the end of the show. Okay, beautiful, silly, Sophie. Encore. Encore.

Nava. Hi, I'm Nava. Nav. Thank you. At 12 years old, I had just discovered the spice girls. They were like hot on the scene. Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh.

Loved them. I was in love with my best friend, who was in love with my best friend and I would give advice about how to land it was good advice. I was not sabotaging him. But, yes, I was sort of, like, in the middle of, like,

fighting my feelings and giving him, like, really genuine advice, but they would never get together. And I, he and I would never get together. So there was sort of this, like, endless loop. And then in the summer, I think, of 12 years old, I went to asthma camp. So maybe a clue is to why. My favorite fact about that.

We need to pause on that. Yeah. Then, first of all, that's a thing. Yeah, yeah. And that you went, I forgot. Yeah, I did spend a summer at asthma camp. For kids with asthma. Can I ask?

We won't dive too deep because it could take all 45 minutes. What do you do at asthma camp? It's a sports camp for kids with asthma to expand. It is really a sports camp to just expand your lung capacity so that you can have like, you can go further and further in sports. That's wonderful. And now you regret making fun of it because it's a wonderful mission. No, no, it's still funny. It's pretty funny.

It's still funny. I love it. Perfect way. Great icebreaker, right? Yeah. Great. Let's talk more about Pod Crush. Can you briefly tell me the sort of origin story of the show? You pointed me, but the real origin story starts with that.

So in 2020, there was a global pandemic. Some of you might remember. And we were looking for hope, I think a lot of us, and looking for reasons to laugh and feel uplifted. And I had listened to like a piece of media where this girl was reading out of her middle school diary. and it was so funny, and the stories she was telling were so relatable. And I started looking, I wanted to, like, just listen to a podcast of people's middle school

stories. So I started searching for that. I was like, oh, okay, I just want to hear, like, more and more stories like these, and I couldn't find one. Oh. And I was like, wait, someone should make a podcast that's just people reading from their middle school diary, because this is so funny. This is, like, hilarious, this girl's extreme drama and angst. And when I couldn't find one, I was like, we should make one.

And I approached, Penn and I had just started a production company together, but I didn't approach him first. I approach Sophie first. She and I had nothing together. No, that's true. But I was like, what I call Sophie? She was a middle school teacher. She was artistic. I pitched her the idea first. Yeah, silly Sophie. And then I called Penn to run it by him. And he was like, maybe I could be part of it. And I was like, yeah, maybe you could be part of it. Yeah, that might be okay. And that's sort of like the origin of it. Yeah, I mean, so first of all, some of the context you're leaving out is that you, I mean, how much did your experience as a middle school administrator. I had been a middle school teacher and administrator, and I also

remembered how crazy middle schoolers were. Yeah, totally. And how fun they were. And it's sort of like that time of life where you're advanced enough that you can do wild things, but your brain isn't developed enough to prevent you from doing those wild things. It's just this, like, unique time in life. Totally. Let's talk more about that. Middle school is a time many people would love to ignore, right? Pretend never happened. What is it about that particular slice of someone's experience that's so rich for you all to dig into? Keep looking to me? Okay. Well, I mean, so like, chemically, biologically speaking, there's a lot that the

sciences can provide us that backs up this notion. Because I think things are happening in your body and your brain that are, they're essentially never happening. They don't happen before. They don't happen again. There's, you know, a lot of plasticity in the brain. There's also a lot of plasticity in the brain when you're like a, an infant and toddler and stuff like that.

But it's a really plastic time, neurologically speaking. So obviously, like, just your ability to see the world, and you think about it, you enter adolescence and you're a child. And then when adolescence is over, you're an adult. A child cannot possibly understand or conceive of or perceive what it really is to be an adult. You know what I mean? like it's, it's, you think of just, you think of even like, uh, uh, sexuality alone. That's not, you know, you, there's a reason it's inappropriate to discuss it past a certain

point with children because they just, they, they just can't conceive of it yet, you know, and that's fine. So I think similarly, we, we tend to focus on that in adolescence, but there's actually quite a lot more happening. There's, um, you know, you think of like morality, spirituality, the way you're going to see the world politically, the way you're going to approach education, which at a more meaningful level just means like how you're going to be thinking for the rest of your life, how you're going to be processing, like everything you encounter, you know what I mean? So I just feel like there's actually, there's nothing that's not happening except for anything

maybe concrete. You know, it's like it's all just moving, it's changing. You can't even tell how quickly it's changing. a year, a lifetime. I mean, when you're 12, a 13-year-old is so much cooler and older, and when you're 14, a 12-year-old is a child. And when you're 16, a 13-year-old seems pretty young. When you're 17, it's like a 12-year-old. Like, that's a baby. You know what I mean? And this all just happened in about four to five years. Absolutely. And about the time you're 19, you feel like you're an adult and you're a baby. Sorry, if anybody here is 19.

I'd imagine we somebody here is 19 if we know our demographic. But, you know, It really is just a period of just immense transformation. I think also it's a time when you're being opened up suddenly to so many more forces in the world. Like when you're a child, you're mostly influenced by your parents and they're kind of controlling what is influencing you. And then as you enter middle school, you gain more independence. You're spending more and more time with your peers.

And now, like, you're on social media. Which is great for kids. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We recommend it. Studies show. Follow podcast. It's not having any thing but good effects. Sorry, go ahead.

It's such a tender time. Sure. And they're being shaped, really. And so I think that was part of the reason we felt it was important to focus in on this time and tell stories about it and use it as a tool for reflection and think about how you've been, how you've been shaped by your middle school experiences. And also we thought maybe, originally we thought maybe some middle schoolers might listen. It sort of evolved since then.

Sure. Yeah, originally we kind of wanted to make it like four middle school. Four middle schoolers. Did middle schoolers listen? Predominantly Penn's fan base, which is like 18 plus. Gotcha. Okay. So not 12 years old.

Yeah, yeah. We have some middle schoolers who listen, but not. And shout out to them. Yeah. On the show, you ask about sort of classic teenage milestones, like we're beginning to talk about first crushes, heartbreak, and I feel like that is... Sorry, I just, I just exhaled deeply into the... Please stop exhaling.

If you could refrain from breathing. Stop that, that, bad, that's love them. All right, I just got to be conscious of that. Okay, right. And I think this crush talk is so, it's such a smart way of cutting to the quick with someone. It really is, because it's like you jump immediately into this intimate conversation about the sweet and the embarrassing and the whole. vulnerable parts of someone

that we often hide as an adult. I know you do this on the show, but I would love to do it again. Can one of you share a story of a crush from your middle school years? You're already did, so you're safe. Can one of the two of you share a story about a crush and how it shaped you? I can't.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, why just one of us? Yeah, go ahead and go ahead and go ahead and something. Okay, sure. Yeah, well, I mean, this isn't necessarily a first crush, but I do remember, it shaped me this experience. It was someone who had been chasing me. I wasn't interested, and then we ended up getting together. But I was at a point in my life where I wasn't talking to any of the adults in my life, really, about those feelings.

And I would talk to my parents about a lot of things, but it was like post-middle school, early high school, I wasn't, I had decided no more. this is my life now and my family went on a trip with another family and I was sharing a room we kind of like drew straws and I was sharing a room with an older girl

she was in her 20s in college and I was 16 I felt I was so embarrassed I remember taking my my mom taking my sister like please why don't you like stay with me I don't want to stay with her I'm so nervous

because you were nervous around to Penn's point 20 years old felt like the oldest age you could be oh my God she was so cool and what would we have to talk about and she would certainly like see me like plucking my lip hairs in the mirror or something. I don't know.

I was so nervous. And as soon as we got into our room she was like, so let's talk about boys. And I melted and I told her everything, things I wouldn't tell my parents. It turns, she ended up becoming my sister-in-law. They were just family friends at the time. No, no, no. She married my brother. That's how that works. It's hard to do that on the fly.

Yeah. And I just feel like I have realized now how important it is for that age group, teens, tweens, to have adults in their life or just older people who they can talk to and who feel, who are not judging them. Or it seems like they're not judging them. I think Millie, my sister-in-law, ended up talking to my parents about what I told her. No, that's fine. That's violating the code. In time, you said. In time, yeah.

Like after she married your brother and she was like, listen, guys, guys. So I got to tell you something. Yeah. This is something to worry about. You know, silly Sophie? Yeah. You're not going to want our other answer. No, but I, yeah, I feel like that shaped me when I became a, because I became a fifth grade teacher, I feel like that was something I always had in mind.

Like, it's a delicate balance with young people. You don't want to alienate them. You don't want to put them in a position where they're like, oh, great. So now I know you're not someone I'm going to talk to. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. First crush. Oh, right.

Well, let's see. I don't have... The interesting thing about me with this, the way that I approach it, is for some reason, probably because I moved to L.A. when I was 12. And I should also give a shout-out to my mother, who is here.

Yay. Give us a shout-out. I'm not going to point her out, but, I mean, to be honest, you might be able to guess who she is, right? Incredible. And I mention that now because, you know, I was having a lot of formative experiences at the time

that were like, we've since talked about, but it is interesting to talk about them with my mother here. I think I went from being extremely exceedingly shy, and then also, like I said, I had gotten, I mean, this happens to so many people, but whatever, I was chubby, I became chubby in approaching adolescence, like 8, 9, 10. And as I was doing that, I was also kind of getting into this idea of acting.

And it was, you know, people telling me about this idea that, you know, you're good, you should do this. It may be, you know. So, so I think, I think very, very early on, something was already happening, some kind of process had already started where I was, I don't recall a lot of like, oh, just getting to kind of like have this time of crushes and awkwardness. I was working by the time I was 12. Yeah, that is really intense. Like literally I was working professionally by the time I was 12.

And enjoying that, loving that, actually. And in some ways having all of these incredible expansive experiences that most people that age are not getting to have that I think benefited me. But then there's other things like this part, the crush which turns into the sexuality part which was being it was just changed it was changing and so I went from being an extremely quiet shy like asked one girl out once and she said no and I was like okay well then never again that's it and then suddenly I'm like you know living in L.A. and going out for roles where it's like you know oh I read one where it's like I there's like I there

There's a kiss, and I'm like, wow, oh, oh, I say, wow. And I actually, you know, I know a lot of people who have their first kiss on camera. You know what I mean? And getting paid for it, no less. So there's just all kinds of, so. Yeah. You thought it. I didn't.

So, you know, it's funny. The way that I intersect with this whole concept is like, I just didn't, somehow, it was never as much fun as it could have been, should have been, would have been. And then, you know, very early on it was just like there was a gravity to it, there was a change that was happening. The idea that I needed to exhibit a certain kind of masculinity and sexuality and stuff just I really saw early on. And we're talking late 90s Brad Pitt Fight Club era,

so any boy was just like, okay, well, That's it. That's it. That's it for us. If I don't look like that, then, you know, maybe not everybody felt that way. But I think anybody who might have been in the realm of living in Hollywood might, you know, felt that way. So my memory of questions, it's just, it's loaded. It kind of, it went from this zero to a hundred real fast. And we'll be right back. Almost every American has some sort of relationship with soda, whether it was an everyday thing or just a special occasion thing in your household. The chances are that you developed a craving for it early on, which makes it all the more difficult when you're trying to cut back as an

adult. Well, the good news for you is that Ollipop has a new kind of soda and it combines that traditional soda flavor that we all love and all the bubbles, but none of the bad stuff. so you don't have your usual health trade-offs if you're drinking soda as long as it's allie pop as a kid my mom was an absolute no soda ever kind of mom and once a year we would come to the u.s for summer vacation and we would go to this pizza shop in the town that my grandma lived in amherst massachusetts shout out and she would allow us to get a soda when we went to that pizza shop and i was always going for the cream soda i still to this day i'm obsessed with cream soda and luckily,

Ollipop has a cream soda flavor so that I never have to feel bad about my cream soda hankerings ever again. Get a free can of Ollipop buy any two cans of Ollipop in store and we'll pay you back for one. Works on any flavor, any retailer,

just go to drinkolypop.com slash podcrushed. Ollipop is sold online, drinkollipop.com, and Amazon. And available in almost 50,000 retailers nationwide, including Costco, Walmart, Target, Publix, Whole Foods, Kroger, and H.E.B. Have you ever tried to build a website and given up because you couldn't get the website to look how you wanted? Well, I actually have.

Some platforms when you're building websites have really strict templates and they make it pretty impossible for you to break the mold, get creative in your design. And that's where Wix comes in. Wix.com gives you the freedom to build exactly the site that you want for any business idea. I actually used wicks.com to make the wedding website for my sister's wedding. She put me in charge of that because believe it or not, I am more tech savvy than her. But with wicks.com, you actually don't need to be tech savvy. It's super easy. If you are someone who does want a template, Wix has over 2,000 templates that you can choose from and customize. It's honestly just great, chef's kiss. The wicks.com interface is super easy to use.

it's also actually fun. It's all drag and drop. There's an amazing AI image studio and tons of amazing design effects. If you're looking to sell products or services or schedule appointments on your site, Wix.com also has got you covered with a ton of built-in solutions. No add-ons are required. Wix has been pioneering in website tech for almost 20 years now. These guys seriously understand web design and what it takes for you to run your own business. Ready to create your own website, go to wicks.com. That's wicks.com to start building your website today. Thanks to wicks for sponsoring our show. Meet J-Lab. Headphones and speakers as vibrant as your summer, beach days, workout sessions, or chill moments. You can find the perfect sound with J-Lab.

J-Lab's colorful collection has something for every summer adventure and every moment. Think headphones and speakers in fresh summer colors with features you actually want. For beach workouts, poolside chilling, sunset jamming sessions, whatever it is. I recently got a pair. I actually got three pairs of the J. Budds Mini. They come in a bunch of different colors. They have like some wild colors, like mint green or sage or ocean aqua, bright pink, sleek black. They also have like flesh-toned colors, all kinds of colors.

And they do have what I think is called J-Lab's smallest fit ever. They fit on your keychain, which I have on my keychain actually, and they're smaller than a coin. They're perfect for any size ear, but particularly small ears. My ear canal actually is very, very wide and then gets very, very narrow very quickly. It's an uncommon shape. These are great. They're great for my ears. They're probably great for your ears.

And they're perfect for summer pockets, you know? Linen shorts, maybe. They slip right in. You can't even see them. And don't miss out on J-Lab's newest line. They're summer speaker series. From pocket size to party size, the J-Lab party speaker series, brings powerful sound to any summer gathering

in vibrant colors like lime green. Cyan. I don't get to say Cyan out loud a lot. That's very exciting. Cyan and hot pink as well as, of course, classic black. Start with the ultra-portable pop party speaker for beach picnics. Step up to go party for backyard barbecues. You could level up with J-Bud's party for all-day beach sessions

and go epic with the epic party speaker in classic black, delivering 100 watts of massive 360-degree sound for unforgettable summer nights. Look for the... the blue box at Retailers Everywhere or shop jlab.com and use code podcrushed for 15% off your order today. But this is why I think it's so smart the conversations you have on your show because asking a kind of simple seeming question like what's an early crush? What can you tell me about that? It reflects so much more. And I guess I want to follow up and just say like, why do you think

we should take crushes seriously and not discount them as frivolous? What kind of mirror do they hold up to us? What do they reveal? This can be for anyone. That's a good question. Something I like about you all too is you take the time to think, which is in silence, which I love. Well, I think they're not frivolous. I mean, feelings are feelings and feelings that bring joy more, right? Like, crushes are so fun and like yummy, especially when they don't go south. I love that word. So I think that's great. a crush tells you something about the person who's like experiencing it and what they value

like in terms of who they like. It also tells you something about the society they live in sort of like who the society tells you is valuable. Totally. So I think a crush is like very revealing about a person and a time and a place in a particular moment. And I think it also like young crushes

or what happens to you at like 12, 13, 14, you can start to write a social script or like a script for yourself that can actually, you can be operating from that script really late into life. Sometimes people have to do like a lot of work to stop operating from that script. So actually it can be really helpful to go back and say like, what is the early script that I wrote?

And like, am I still operating from that script? Yeah. And how can we write a new one? Totally. So I think even for ourselves to not dismiss the early experiences we had and not just think of them as like, that was silly or that was frivolous that was meaningless because you'll probably find that it was really important and that it was

shaping you and that it was formative. Like they say, it was truly a formative experience. So what does it mean that it was formative? What does it mean that it literally formed you and wired you and that you have your neural pathways that are going in a particular way? And what does it mean if you have to try to rewire them? What's the work that that requires? You are making the case for crushes and I'm fully hot. Yes. That is true. I mean, I think everyone when they leave here should tell someone they have a crush on them. How about that's all make a pact tonight? Totally. Let's all do it. Pinky. What about, do you have any thoughts on why crushes are important?

Or did she cover it? We call Nava the summarizer on the podcast. She's just like to the point, but not just to the point. Like she's not being superficial. She's going deep, but she says it so well. You say it so well. You really do. I mean, that is the, that is the crux of it, I think. It's the, well, first of all, even the concept of a social script. Like, we talk about things being socially constructed.

Well, if something is socially constructed, then, you know, we all play a role in that. You uphold it socially by, again, this idea that who you're even attracted to has a large part of it. I don't know that I would call it a majority. I don't know what the piece of the pie is, but, you know, who you're attracted to is hugely shaped by. social teachings you know social just practices and mores and norms like I'm remembering

just how you know from a young boy's perspective who was so shy asked one girl out and was told no and was just like yep never doing that ever again you know it just was like why did all the girls have a crush on like the same three dudes yeah yeah you're still mad about that

and see we get we get a one laugh at me. He's like, yeah, bro. I can't tell if he was one of the three dudes exactly. That laugh sounded like he was not. I'm sorry. And neither was I. Neither was I. That's so... So, like, I don't know what, and, like, they're always named like Drew

or something, you know? Like, at least in my case at last. You know, it's like, Drew, Jordan, like, I don't know. Let's not name names for people. And and even even what I have heard people say as they've grown older, they're like,

yeah, they were always like the most... Sometimes there's this super average dude who everybody loves. Yeah. Everybody, like, and you know, what's going on there? Yeah.

And fine, great, give him his flowers happy for him now, you know. Where did he end up? Yeah. But who's the one on stage right now? Yeah, you know. So, I mean, honestly, there is a lot of...

Because also at this age, it's the first time that you're, that you're ostensibly, like you're going out into the world and like perpetuating it or creating something a little bit different or you know any mix between these two things so yeah I just

the notion of a social script is really what draws us and it's funny we've been talking about this for years I don't know now that you've ever used that particular phrase and we're in worth it yeah um we're but that is that is essentially that is essentially it's like it's it's a crush

oh and then the other thing I think that that you're mentioned that I want to underscore is feelings are real, you know? I mean, I often make jokes to belittle, like, a crush because... I thought they were saying me and Sophie. Yeah, well, yeah, them too. Yeah. But I think the term crush has so many frivolous implications, whereas your feelings, first of all, are always valid.

It doesn't mean that they're based on, in fact, and it doesn't mean that you're entitled to behave however you want based on your feelings but your feelings are your feelings you know your feelings actually the one as i understand it your feelings is the one part of like you and and and um you can't control them you know you can't you can't control what your body does somewhat you can't control how you feel you can respond to your feelings you can manage how you behave according to your feelings so you know so your feelings you know my memory of a of the crushes that I did have. They were so strong.

They were so, so, so strong. And they came from a desire to be loved and accepted and held in a way that is not only at all sexual, but it's, of course, the only box we have to put that in in the beginning. So you're actually putting so many feelings and then attaching it to this thing

that you've also never experienced. And so it's just very confusing. Yeah, yeah. When really what you want is you want something that is it transcends the body it's it's a you want a commitment you want I think that's I mean if we're really calling

it what it is the feeling that you that you want from the person that you desire is you want something that like that makes life meaningful you want it to everything to be okay you know you have this feeling when you're like love sick that it won't be okay unless I

unless I am with this person and by the way that's a complete fantasy like it's just never true I mean maybe you'll have something that you can continue, blah, blah, blah, but I mean, you know. So, yeah, there's really no end to the depth. I think, yeah, I would actually say, I agree with what you guys are saying.

She's going to disagree. Yeah, I'm right on stage. I also am like, are they that? Like, they can be and they feel so big. Sure. But then I think also maybe when we look back on them or even when we're helping young, youngsters through them, we can try to remind them sometimes like,

it's totally normal for you to feel like this is so big and so major, but you will, like, this is totally normal for you to feel this way. And it's actually, you're going to feel this way many, many, many, many times. And it's not the end of the world. Like, it doesn't have to be that deep, actually. You're bringing up this intensity of feeling everything when you're at this age feels completely overwhelming, end of the world, end of your life, how do you balance, like, giving someone that age perspective, but also not

invalidating their feelings? How do you think about that? Well, because I think that also depends. Like, I had, like, one crush all of. So it's probably more than a crush. Wow, only one. All of high school, like the same boy, the one that, like, seven through 12th grade. So it wasn't like, you're going to have it again and again. It was like the same person. Yeah. But you had many. Yes. So I think it really depends. But yeah, I think it's like listening to people. people and I think late in meester like our pilot guest talked about it she sort of started on from what I recall that was like a hundred episodes ago it started on like um you know it's not that big of a deal and then she was like but you have to validate what they're saying and I feel like that's

always the push pull of life it's like you want to listen to someone and then everything we go through is like it's a wave and whatever wave we're in we're writing it and it can feel like the biggest thing and at some point that that wave is going to bring us to shore and then we'll have to write another one And that's why it's so fascinating to read back a diary, for example, to the genesis of the show. Because you read these days, I mean, they have this experience, like reading a diary from middle school, high school, and being like, who is this person that I'm talking about? You know what I mean? Like, it feels so intense, but I can't even recall who they are, so it does pass. And we're reminded of our past selves and that past intensity when we read a diary or something like that.

Well, it makes me think that, like, you know, you're not necessarily having these feelings in response to a person. I mean, so sometimes you often are. They're a configuration of attributes, you know, their character, their body, all these things, that it comes together and it's like, okay, so this is eliciting in me a response. But actually, all these feelings are in me, in a sense. You know what I mean? So that's the way I think about validating it, but then putting it in perspective. It's like, look, it's actually not statistically true that you're only ever going to find, you know, one person.

It's just, that's just, first of all, it's not going to happen. I'm sorry, 13-year-old. Unless you're going to get married to this, I don't know, but it just feels to me like, so there is some perspective, right? But then the validation of the feelings is like, yeah, they're, thank God that you can feel this much, even, this young. I mean, what would youth be if you weren't having these strong feelings? Yeah. You know?

And also we talk about, like, social norms and stuff. I'm thinking about, you know, the way boys are, and they don't have to be taught this. We learn this from everything from the air, from the water, from movies, from whatever. And then we do learn it from, you know, older men. The power of those feelings, you know, we talk about men wanting to be or needing to be more sensitive. I mean, I think the problem is that they're extremely sensitive, but then they learn that they're not meant to be. And so they start bottling up these feelings,

and then you end up with a voice like this. It's like, what? What do you mean? What do you mean? You know, I mean, that's, like, I have that too, but then I've been working with that social script for a while, you know, as we were saying, like, unpacking and trying to rewrite that. But there was a time when I was like 18, 19, 20.

I mean, I put my voice. You're kidding. I mean, I wasn't like, I wasn't literally like a different. But I mean, you guys see those sideburns, early gossip girl? What is that but masking? What is that but a boy being like, finally I can grow hair on the side of my face? Was that your choice? Who would choose that?

Yeah. Yeah. Only somebody who could not with their own eyes in real time see the side of that face, choose to do that to a face. Everyone else in a planet could look at me like this and be like, I could never do it I could see a picture You know you look at pictures

And you're creating a fantasy You're not seeing what you're not seeing what other people see If I could have ever seen my own head I would have been like Come here Come here Come here It's okay

You don't have to prove anything to anybody You're already a man Yeah you're already a man Sideburn talk I had no idea it would go there But there's so much In the power of that strip of hair It had a bell bottom flare I mean, it was, it was so wide.

I think it looked okay. Yeah, yeah, okay. No, I'm like Google a picture. Some of them, some of them are. They're really bad. Yeah, I mean, so some era they were not, and like, I don't know, you're probably not much of a gossip girl fan, I take it.

That's profiling, but not really. But no. But no. Never seen an episode, but admire you and admire your work. We are... Did you say never seen an episode? Never seen a single one. Great.

Love it. That's why we can... Here for it. We are quickly running out of time, so just a few more. I want to see where we want to go. The show started by being very specifically about these middle school stories, but as you've continued making it, you've expanded the scope so much, and you're now tackling what I would consider to be quite adult...

Dess. Yes. A lot, actually. Totally, yeah, no, yeah. And marriage and long-term relationships and having kids. Can you talk about why you want to... wanted to expand? Like, why did you want Pod Crush to grow up? No one would come on the show. I mean, no, that's not. So practically speaking, you know, the boring answer is like,

you just want more guests to come on. They're promoting. So in the beginning, we were just sort of like using my connections for the first four guests. That's about how many connections I had. Five, maybe eight, including my wife. Not her as a guest, she was a guest, but the people she would connect us to. We just, we were, in the beginning, we were not getting people on a press tour and they were kind of down. You know what I mean?

And then what we noticed is sometimes you get people in a press tour, actually, and now most of the time, because we're like a proper podcast. We're doing really well. Don't check the charts. Yeah. We're soaring. You know, you have to abide by the thing.

You can't just talk about adolescents. They're like, what am I going to do that for? So naturally we did have to expand But then also I think other things that you guys can answer Yeah I mean I think like we've said many times These experiences in middle school are Like we're still having them Totally as adults

And I think it's interesting to connect the dots with those guests And to see actually the guests connect those dots In real time sometimes in the episode like huh Wow why is this all coming back to 12 Like every question you're asking me I'm like I can think of an experience from when I was exactly 12 years old that explains why I'm doing this as an adult, why I'm stuck in this pattern or whatever it is.

So I think they're so intimately connected. Like it's not really possible to disentangle them. I also think we've gotten better at researching. So with better research, you learn more about people and then you can ask them more interesting questions. So I think at the beginning it was just sort of like we were all new at what we were doing. so even the research aspect was new, so it was a little bit more, like,

oh, we're just going to ask them all, like, the same sort of standard questions. But then it was like, no, let's actually, like, get to know this person. And then, you know, somebody was like, actually, I really, like, for instance, when we had Ariana Grande, it was like, she's done so many interviews. I want to ask her something no one has ever asked her. She's like, okay, well, I have to listen to every interview she's ever done. And then ask her something no one's ever asked her. And I think we did.

We asked her a few things no one had ever asked her and sort of, like, bringing that through to other guests. So then when you research them a lot, you're able to ask some things that are interesting. I was going to say, could you share maybe a favorite moment so we can all go and listen back of that happening with either Ariana or another guest, like a moment where you saw them actively connect these dots? I can recall so many guests just saying, like, wow, yeah, like, I haven't thought about this in so long. Sometimes they say right at the beginning, and it's like, well, you got a long, you're going to go. I don't know if it was like to connect the dots, but one of my, I mean, Ariana Grande was just, just, you know. just such an incredible interview, and she was such a, I have shared this a lot, but she was so

genuinely wonderful. She was so generous. I just want everyone to know this about her. Most of our guests give us 60 minutes or 90. Ariana spent four hours with us. She did not need to. She was just like down for anything. She didn't cut any questions. She let us ask her about like a sensitive time in her life. She didn't veto anything. She was just the like loveliest human, like genuinely. And didn't she post about it too? She kept for, she promoted. promoted it more than any other guests we've had this season. Get her on my show. Yeah, she's just like I am like a, like a, I had left that interview like a Ariana Grande like super fan.

Wow. I have like merch now. I have like merch of Ariana Grande. So that was like definitely like a favorite interview. But my other favorite interview was Eddie Redmayne. And Eddie Redmayne, like I went into it knowing that I would love him but was like floored with the person that he is. And he was someone who was on a press store, didn't know what our podcast was. I don't know why he said yes, but he did say yes.

and he, I think at some point we were like, oh my God, we have like 15 minutes left and we have an next year about any of your programs and you came here on a press story and he was like, I don't care. He was like, I don't care, let's just keep talking about middle school and I was like, your publicist is going to murder me so we actually have to move on to your projects

and we did, but it was like he was so into the early life conversation that he was down to not talk to and out of respect for his PR we did talk about his projects. But it was like so nice to see someone just like engrossed in the conversation not knowing that that's what they were going to come to talk about. That's really wonderful. Yeah, I don't remember a specific. moment, but I do remember, I think Elizabeth Moss had a moment like that

where she went back. And she kept thinking of new memories. And then recently Sophie Turner, I feel like, as well. Just a lot happened to her at all. That's sure. Oh, sorry. Sophie Thatcher. Four hours. That's so much time. Yeah. She was incredible. Look at her. All right. Transition from Ariana Grande, Ariana Grande to these audience questions. Thank you for submitting them. I'm just going to hop in. How are feeling? Ready to give some advice? What do you hope? people get from reflecting on the hardships and trauma of adolescence. Great question.

I suppose the best thing you can get from reflection is understanding. And then from understanding, several things, I suppose, relief, both from maybe, false and restrictive beliefs about yourself, but then also about others. And then, you know, I know that understanding is a great one. And then it kind of branches out from there. You're looking to...

Branges out from there. I don't you guys pick it up. Understanding of your own experience. And then I would hope that someone might gain some empathy for younger friends. Yeah. And also, like, you are... This is so obvious, but you are every version of yourself.

Like, you were the 12-year-old version of yourself. So, like, self-compassion. And, like, life is so hard and so brutal. And at that time in life, a lot of things are out of our control, but that's the time where we're formed. So to have, like, appreciation for that. And, like, it's okay if things happened that shaped you in a way that you wish you hadn't been shaped.

And you can also, like, you're not fully formed. No matter how old you are, like, you're still on a path, and you can continue on that path or you can take a right turn. like you're in control of who you are and you can still make new choices. That's a wonderful idea. I feel like y'all return to a lot, which is that coming of age is a lifelong process.

And it's so true, and it's quite freeing to understand that. You just keep discovering things about yourself and working things out. I think this question, I speed read that, so I think it is related. This is from Ariana. I'm 31, but sometimes I feel my 13-year-old self comes through in the form of insecurities.

How can I heal my 13-year-old self and, by extension, my adult self? Wonderful question, very relatable. Gosh, I wish I knew because I texted my sister the entire time I was preparing for this. Like, do I like this in terms of my outfits? I'm struggling with the same thing, Ariana. So, I don't know. So we have written a collection of essays. We've written a book called Crushmore, a collection of essays on love, loss, and coming

of age. Out October 7th. They've written a book. And the book mostly focuses on our middle school experiences, but it does go into adulthood. And I cried so much writing my essays. I'm probably going to cry right now. But it was like, I didn't expect to cry writing the ones. I mean, I wrote one. My mom passed away, and I wrote one about that. And I knew I was going to cry writing that one. It was like so difficult to write, difficult to edit. Very predictable. But other ones were so hard to write. And I think what was very, really hard was the realization that things that are hard

for me, oh my gosh, yeah. Things that are hard for me now were hard then. And to be like, oh my gosh, I haven't learned it yet. Like, wow, like, I was 12 and I'm this age, like how could I still not have learned that lesson? And so I totally get that.

But also, to be like, well, it's not too late, I'm not dead. So, like, in time. Like, I think we have these ideas, like, you had to accomplish it by this age or you're a failure, but you don't. Like, you are a person, you are growing, and we're all in development, and we're never fully formed. Do you want to follow

that? I always have to, right? He's like, I'm fully formed, though. He's like, so I don't know about you, but once you shave the sideburns, it was off to the races. No, it's so true. I mean, in some ways, I, you know, in writing a book, kind of my first essay I started out just being like

yeah I really feel still like that 12 year old in so many ways I feel like it's hard to explain you have to read the book but I mean read it for can't you read books? No you can't read it for free well we'll have to figure that out for you

but it's not to just repeat what I've said but I think to me the gift of understanding is sort of it is the first in order of gifts to the human mind and heart and spirit and soul like

understanding can do everything and anything and so my completely armchair psych understanding of trauma having read a fair amount about it trying to understand it

you know don't quote me here but it has to do with You know, an event doesn't have to be traumatic. Now, this is not to say, of course, if anyone's traumatized, that it's an invalidation of that, a complete opposite. Something is traumatizing not just because of the nature and scale of the event, but because of the victim or the person being traumatized,

because of their understanding of what's happening, or what they don't understand about what's happening. Ultimately, like, coming to terms with that, is a process of understanding. And it's, you know, it's great and slow and incredible, but understanding kind of unlocks everything. You know, being able to understand why this one moment has stood out to you,

that one moment where I felt humiliated, and then you might be like 43 or 63 or 83, and you're like, oh, oh. Huh. And, you know, it doesn't change everything. It doesn't solve maybe anything. But it does bring relief. And I do think that, like, so, you know, the person asked this question, like,

there's no way we can answer it specifically at all because you couldn't fit, like, all the things you're dealing with on that little card and, like, who are we even, you know. But I do think that, like, I think what I heard now. Nav is speaking to and Sophie speaking to was like mercy and time and then and then eventually understanding can can bring peace. I think it's the only thing that can. I really do think it's the only thing. One of the reasons relationships are nice is because they they speed that process up which is also why it's painful because you're like I'm not ready to understand that part of me yet. You know like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa it's you you know but that is like to me

understanding is everything it really it really it really it really can bring everything thank you for those responses very very beautiful stick around we'll be right back all right so um let's just let's just let's just real talk as they say for a second that's a little bit of an aged thing to say now that that that dates me doesn't it um but no real talk uh how important is your health to you you know on like a one to And I don't mean in the sense of vanity, I mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick. When you have responsibilities, I know myself, I'm a householder.

I have two children and two more on the way, a spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so honestly, I turned to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that

I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with. The three that I use, I use the, what is it? called liposomal vitamin C and it tastes delicious like really really good comes out in the packet you put it right in your mouth some people don't do that I do it I think it tastes great I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning really good for gut health and although I don't need it you know anti-aging and then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8 which is really good for for I think mood and stress I sometimes use it in the morning sometimes use it at night all three of these things taste incredible

honestly you don't even need to mix it with water and yeah I just couldn't recommend them highly enough if you want to try them out go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping that's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping the first few weeks of school are in the books and now's the time to keep that momentum going

IXL helps kids stay confident and ahead of the curve IXL is an award-winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning, whether they're brushing up on math or diving into social studies. It covers math, language arts, science, and social studies from pre-k through 12th grade with content that's engaging, personalized, and yes, actually fun. It's the perfect tool to keep learning going without making it feel like school. I actually used I Excel quite a bit when I was teaching fifth grade. I used it for my students to give like extra problems for practice, or sometimes I also used it to just check on what the standards were in my state for any given

topic in math or reading or writing. It's just a helpful tool all around for teachers, for parents, for students. I honestly do love it. Studies have shown that kids who use IXL score higher on tests. This has been proven in almost every state in the U.S. So if your child is struggling, this is a smart investment that you can make in their learning. A single hour of tutoring costs more than a month of IXL. Don't miss out. One in four students in the U.S. are learning with IXL, and IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now. And Podcrush listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL memberships when they sign up today at IXL.com slash podcrushed.

Visit Iexel.com slash podcrush to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. As the seasons change, it's the perfect time to learn something new. Whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or looking for a new challenge before the year ends, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language progress. Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language on desktop or mobile whenever and wherever it fits your schedule. Rosetta Stone emmerces you in your new language naturally, helping you think and communicate with confidence. There are no English translation, so you truly learn to speak, listen, and think in your chosen language.

The other day, I was actually at the grocery store and I asked one of the people working there if they could help me find a specific item. And she was like, sorry, I actually don't speak English. She only spoke Spanish. And I was like, if only I, my Spanish was good enough to be able to. have this conversation in Spanish, we will be sorted. And that's where Rosetta Stone comes in. I really need to get back on my Rosetta Stone grind. With 30 years of experience, millions of users, and 25 languages to choose from, including Spanish, French, German, Japanese, and more. Rosetta Stone is the go-to tool for real language growth. A lifetime membership gives you access to all

25 languages so you can learn as many as you want whenever you want. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. Podcrush listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit Rosettastone.com slash podcrush to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to rosettastone.com slash podcrush and start learning today. I'm going to pivot it to a different question. Is that ice cream, something lighter? There are a lot of Dan Humphrey questions that I'm saving for like rapid fire at the end. If you know me, I am incapable of a rapid fire. Really? We've tried. We've tried.

Okay, let's see. Let's try this one. What are your thoughts on the current dating environment, perhaps particularly in New York? Trash. Trash. Take it from a married man, trash. That's perfect. You're married. You're fully married. Did any of you date in New York? Or were you... No, I lived in New York, and I was dating, but it was mostly long distance, so... Mm-hmm. Yeah, I did a little bit.

I'm going to blame myself. I think I have a proclivity for wasting time, and that has followed me in every city because I've been in every city that I've been in, so... Do you want to elaborate on trash, or you're just going to get to... So you're being brave and bold and, like, okay, so that's your personal responsibility, but then, come on, dating culture is absolute trash. Yeah, also. Let me be a bit more specific.

full of lies and performances that don't even lead to a meaningful friendship let alone a romantic relationship. Yeah. My advice... Barz! Hey that! Bars! Hey that! Totally! Totally! Would you just say something? My advice is always,

look at the people you already know. I don't know. It's like there might be some... That's what happened for me, and so I'm biased, but I feel like sometimes there is like a diamond in the rough or someone you never considered and then you spend some time with them again and... I was going to say as two people who have successfully escaped the dating pool are partnered,

can you give us like a brief love story? How did you meet your partner? This is not a question on the card. It's a question for me. Go ahead. Brief. We met and nothing happened, ships in the night. And then again met what I didn't know that was within those two years.

David, my husband, had had several dreams. And we didn't know each other. And he's not, he's really, like, a pragmatic guy. He was having the dreams and thinking, like, this is annoying. Of you, of you, dreams of you. Yes, of me, random ones. Like, I was passing by in the grocery store. Anyway, we ended up crossing paths again, and we hit it off.

Did he say right off the bat? Like, I've had three dreams about you. He did not tell me for a long time. And I'd be like, great, yeah. Because I would have been, okay, goodbye. Yeah. That is really sweet. But yeah, it was mystical.

It was kind of like a divine thing, I feel like. Like sometimes I think, well, what if I had been traveling? What if this had happened? And we hadn't met, and I feel like that actually did happen. We were, we did meet and nothing happened. And then we met again. So, yeah, I feel like, you go. Dreams.

Dreams. Dreams, yeah. I'm just trying to think of it. So I've never really dated, actually. I think I've been on one date and it was just sort of like it was already made complicated by the fact that that I was on Gossip Girl and so it just felt like

and I think truth be told you know I mean she did know who I was and it was just sort of like so how are we going to go about this acting like we need to go through this process like if this is about hooking up are we going to do that and it was I'm not saying that that's what I mean I literally just

was like, this feels like such a bizarre charade, you know, that I just felt like I didn't get to know that person at all. We didn't, you know, there was nothing there. I, you know, I've been in four relationships, and the fourth one was my wife. And, and, and they all lasted longer than two years. And, um, this isn't even, this is just, it's like I'll, I, the, the, the four women that I've been with, I meet, and it's just kind of immediate. It's impossible to explain. But what I've learned there is that you can have these incredible feelings, but there is a time limit on how long those feelings get you through a relationship. Then you have to learn what it is that actually gets you through a relationship. That's when you learn about your compatibilities and your

incompatibilities. And, you know, so when we met, we met through a mutual friend. I was very, very sick and did not want to be like going out or drinking or anything. It was like the middle of January. I was headed home. He carried all his belongings in a trash bag at this time at his life.

Well, that feels like a salient detail. Not with me, but I was staying in an Airbnb when Airbnb was very cheap. He was trying to land a Huck Finroll. Yeah. All of my belongings were in a trash bag. And then a suitcase, a suitcase, and then what I couldn't in a trash bag, I had all of my stuff in storage.

suitcase but yeah but you know I was just I was just being I is you know I was not thinking I was not thinking rationally all the time and and I and I did not yeah mutual friend texted a friend who I at that point was even a bit suspicious of being like I don't want to go to things you're inviting me to I don't want to she was like come out why because you would set you up with people no because it was just there was there was other stuff with okay yeah there was others it was just it was just like high school shenanigans So I was just like, I don't want to go up. Just that.

And she invited me out. It was on the way home from the train to the Airbnb I was sleeping in. It was like, it was there. I was like, all right, I'll go by. Say hi. I say hi. She's like, the moment I show up, she says, oh, it's cool. A few of the people are going to come meet me.

I texted like 500 people. So you can leave when they come. And I was like, great. And then she said, I asked, or maybe she told me. She's like, yeah, my friend Domino is going to come. and she said the name, and this sounds crazy because I was not the type of person to... If I thought it, why would I say it?

But I said these words, I said, I think I could fall in love with that person. No. What? Who? Like, that's not... That's crazy. That's so cute. Trash bag of the hand.

I think I could fall in love with that person. And then, and then... Mominao sounds like she'd have a place for me to stay. She did actually that night try to help me find an apartment and then offered me for me to stay in her extra room. And because of that, and she was sending me pictures of her son, she had a five-year-old. He'd just turned five the day before. I was just like, oh, there's no way.

She's showing pictures of her son, and she's offering her extra room to me. Like, I felt pathetic. I had bronchitis. So I was just like, I was just like, I really, really, really felt low. I felt like the same, you know, 10-year-old had been denied by Caleb Peterson. That's the one person. I don't remember names that well. Yeah, yeah.

He never does that from wherever this goes. So, is this being recorded? I don't know. Speak it louder. Is this being recorded? I was not aware that this is being recorded. I didn't hear the name. So, you know, it's a great, in some ways it's a great story, but I also feel like that's, you know, we have a really simplistic notion of relationships and dating and even marriage.

It's like, just because there's this great meeting and just because you're compatible, there's, That doesn't mean, like, everything. Like, you really have to figure out how to make it work because I had had other meetings like that. And I happened to be a person who, like, you know, the three relationships in my 20s all kind of started that way. They were just sudden, didn't seem to have control. You know, who doesn't...

You should have some control. You should have some say, right? So, you know... It's a beautiful story. I take what you can from it. You're sharing that. Do we have time to do these, like, three gossip girl questions? Okay, okay.

Asked. I'll try to answer in three words. Oh, wait, I have to end on this one. This is from Penn's mom. Oh, my goodness. Wow. We're skipping the other ones. I'm really sorry.

Penn, please explain you are not a middle school dropout from mom. Wait, you live? That's the tagline of our show. It's a middle school dropout. Yeah, well, it's a joke because, because you're a fifth grade. teacher, right? Not a middle school teacher. So we fudge a little bit to create a tagline.

Okay. I didn't complete middle school, but to say I dropped out what I implied didn't go to school afterward. What she's referencing is the fact that I did, I got the equivalent of a high school diploma and attended community college. Wow. And got it, and got the equivalent of, actually, no, I didn't finish that degree, but then I was accepted to USC as a junior transfer.

Wow. So I could have gone to college. My mother is correct. Yes, she's trying, she's, she's, she's, she's, she's, She's trying to say that my son is very smart and implies that I did not have any concern for his well-being and his education, and I did, and she did. So in Hollywood, she fought, see, not a short answer.

No. She fought, she really helped create in a town where there's no structure for children. It's like a structure fire, in fact. She helped create a path forward that had some kind of structure. It had some other craziness to it, but yes, I actually kept my schooling as formal as I could, which still means I did not actually finish middle school. And I attended high school for less than 40 days, which you can read about.

In the book. Okay, let's plug the book, and then I think we got a jet. When does the book come out? October 7th. October 7th, available for pre-order now, wherever you buy books. Yeah. Yeah, it's called Crushmore. No ghost writers. We wrote it all ourselves.

Definitely. That I can vouch for. Exhaustively. Wish there were ghosts who could write for us. Wish I would kill people. To make ghosts. That's a good place to end. And there it goes full circle.

We were waiting for a you reference, right? Let's give it up for the host of Pock. Let's give it up for Anna Martin. Yes, Anna Martin. Yes, Anna Mawley. Thank you. Thank you. Bye.