Podcrushed - Allison Williams

Episode Date: July 2, 2025

Podcrushed superfan and acclaimed actor Allison Williams (Get Out, Girls, M3GAN) delights the hosts with tales from her AOL Instant Messenger days, sharing everything from her seven-way celebrity crush to memories of her first cigarette.   And preorder our new book, Crushmore, here: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Crushmore/Penn-Badgley/9781668077993      Want more from Podcrushed? Follow our social channels here: Insta: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedInsta TikTok: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedTikTok  X: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedTwitter   You can follow Penn, Sophie and Nava here: Insta: https://www.instagram.com/pennbadgley/  https://www.instagram.com/scribbledbysophie/ https://www.instagram.com/nnnava/ Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@iampennbadgley  https://www.tiktok.com/@scribbledbysophie  https://www.tiktok.com/@nkavelinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I actually walked into a store on 7th Avenue that sold, like, you know, tobacco and monster energy drinks, and seemingly that was it. And I was like, what do, excuse me, sir, and then that was not what I said, but what I said next was true, which was I said, what do people who look like me smoke? And he paused for like not a second and goes, yellow American spirit. He's right. I'll take a pack. Welcome to Podcrushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Sophie and I'm Nava and I think we would have been your middle school besties. Having seven-way celebrity crushes. Elijah Wood. Hayden Christensen. Devin Sawa.

Zane Malach. Josh Hartnett. Robert Pattinson. Chase Crawford. Too close. Welcome to Podcrushed. I'm Penn Badgeley. I'm joined by my co-hosts. Sophie Ansari Navakavala. our guests, we're just going to get right into our guests because she was lovely and she loved us and we loved her back because she loved us and that's the only reason.

Healthy. No. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Super healthy, not trying to please anybody. No, today we have Allison Williams, an actor you know from a whole range of projects including her horrifying portrayal. I have to say more about that.

Allison is so wonderful. Nava was the one who just let it be known. We just got to get right into it guys. I know. about how amazing Allison is. I just meant like no ban to. We don't need to talk about anything else, but how wonderful Allison is.

I just want to say I really enjoyed talking to her. Like she was just, she's so smart and funny and charismatic. And I just want to say on the record how much I loved that conversation. Yes, she was kind of like a dream guest. Yeah. She had so many stories.

Like by the end of what she'd say, I noticed the three of us often were just like, yeah. Wow. Yep. In a trance. Yeah. Hypnotized. Yeah, she was amazing.

For that reason, though, I mean, the episode is long, but I don't think it feels long. It's a really engaging conversation. I don't think we're going to have to edit anything, frankly. So we just want to get into it. So now let me, can I do it now? Okay, now you can do it. Our guest today is, as we've said, Alison Williams, get out. Sophie Neva, can you please just leave the room?

I mean, Megan 1, Megan 2. Yeah. No, I was sorry. I was telling us to get out. I was telling you to leave. I thought you were lost. You couldn't figure out the next line. Can you please just get out?

No, and then of course she's girls. Girls? Ladies. See, I'm just, now I'm just punning off of all. So to be clear, let me be clear. Allison was in Get Out, a famously chilling performance in Get Out, a famously endearing performance

as Marty Michaels and Girls. And now, now, the famously second best podcast in the world. She's behind the mic in a show called Landlines. But her newest film is Megan 2.0, a sequel to the massively successful Megan, which is about an AI doll who develops self-awareness and becomes hostile towards anyone who comes between her and her human companion. Cool, cool, cool, yeah, no, no, yeah, that sounds good. Not too close to life at all. Allison, well, you already heard. She was lovely, she was fun.

She loved us. We loved her. You'll love this. Stick around. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium. proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day, pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair, beef mash, lamb, pilaf, and turkey and chicken cookout.

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meat that looks like meat and veggies that look like veggies because, shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lambie laugh guy. Keep mealtime exciting with nom-num available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrush spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. Why do we do what we do? What makes life meaningful? My name is Elise Lunan, and I'm the author of On Our Best Behavior and the host of the podcast, Pulling the Thread. I'm pulling the thread. I explore

life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves, others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to Pulling the Thread from Lemonada Media wherever you get your podcasts. At 12, I was, like, pretty regularly trying to just breathe through the, first of all, like, incredible boy craziness. And I deeply relate to the boy crazy members of this current Zoom. All of us. Yeah, exactly, Penn, looking at you. Just every day, every day was almost a rom-com.

Like, remembering and channeling that part of myself is so important because that was the backdrop to everything else. Every morning was a montage. Every day was almost the beginning of a rom-com. And then once it was no longer just me in my bedroom alone with my imagination and my thoughts, and I was actually interacting with real other humans. It was all just like a colossal comedy of errors. Like just misfiring in so many directions.

I remember so many little auditioning of like a sense of humor that just like didn't go well and trying to like readjust and it got me in trouble all the time. Like this time in sixth grade where I was saying to, we had been told to just go to the bathroom, don't cause a big disruption, just if you got to go, get up, leave the classroom, and go to the bathroom.

And, like, 45 minutes after our teacher, Mr. Lewis, said that to us, I needed to go the bathroom. So I got to the door, and I just couldn't resist the urge to turn around and say to the whole class, I am going to the bathroom, and that is not a question. And I walked out of the room. And I was in the hallway. And now there's, like, a split screen, right? There's the classroom I just left behind, which I thought nothing about.

I just was like, when I leave the room, I don't know. I'm old enough to have object permanence, but that wasn't really on my mind. but I left the room and it ceased to exist and I'm in my screen where I'm walking down the hallways full of comedic triumph. I am Mary Tyler Moore. I am Mindy Kaling. I am a comedic genius and I'm in the bathroom feeling so satisfied.

I come back into the classroom. I am in trouble. I am in capital T trouble. That is not the way you talk to your teacher in front of your whole class and also creates such a disturbance, like way greater than the one they had been trying to avoid in the first place. just and had to have a whole

conversation with them afterwards. And what I should have said, which I didn't have language for yet, was like I enjoy diffusing tension with humor and that's going to be a coping mechanism that I'll use for my whole life. I loved your Julia Louis-Dreyfus conversation. We had this in common. But I just didn't know quite how to deploy it yet

and I will never be as good at it as JLD obviously, but lifelong pursuit. But like that was so, and that was like a month of my life processing that. I'm still processing it. Which just walking into that classroom and, like, trying to get that confidence back. I'm like, all right, here we go.

We're going to, like, maybe there will be an opportunity for another joke and then trying to be brave enough to just keep them coming. I remember in seventh grade, I was sitting in my English class about, and class was about to start. And, like, a fart that I had no, like, warning was coming came out. Like a small one, it just was like it had no gastrointech, evidence that I had no, like, there were no, what is it called, like, in an earthquake when there's, like, a little bit of rumbling.

Like a tremor. Tremmers. There were no tremors. I was like, aftershock is the after. That was, there was no aftershock. The aftershock was, though, that I, my instinct was, I was swiveled around in my chair talking to my classmate, Bennett. Hey, Bennett.

And my instinct in that moment was to just start drawing on him with my pencil. Now, pencils notoriously. I'm not good at notoriously Not good at drawing on human skin So in effect What happened was this I'm swiveled around talking to him

I fart And then I proceeded to like Kind of gently stab him with lead As we both try to like Navigate this moment of like He knows I know I know he knows he knows he knows I know He kind of looked at me quizzically

And was like Huh And I was like Just knifing into his hands In my pencil It's just That is, like, those years are just, like, they're just vibrating with, like, so many different, like, moments of just 10 out of 10 stakes in your body and in the world, to the world, like, zero stakes. You know what I mean?

It was just, anyway. No, that is it. You have captured. Well, I've listened to a lot of your show. I've learned a lot about it. So you get it. You're auditioning. You're auditioning.

Yeah, I am. Honestly, like, one of you will get busy. to go on leave for some reason again and like I'm here you know 10 yeah I'm here twins on the way Allison we are looking for a guest host and you've landed the job so much all I want my husband always makes fun of me for this he's like all you want out of every interaction is a letter grade really at the end of the day I was in news we shot the first Megan movie in New Zealand during the post COVID times we had to do two weeks of isolation in a hotel room and I was definitely hoping this is adult Allison like basically the one that's here except I was not a mom yet that's changed me

a lot but not in this way a little bit in this way but I definitely wanted at the end of the day the whole staff of that hotel to like gather and be like you guys know who's like really killing it and like following all the rules I'm like can I just say I've never seen her off her dot in the hallway waiting to be swabbed that girl is two feet in the dot never without her mask, always sanitizing at every opportunity, puts her trash out in the hallway on time. She is, she is acing this. She's an exemplary COVID isolation patient. She walks in the right direction in the allotted outdoor time. She walks at the right pace. You know, I just really wanted, that was like my dream of what was happening, like behind the scenes. And that narcissism

and ego is why we become actors, I think, then it helps. the groundwork for what we do for a living is thinking that people might care about us like that. You know, I think that, I think that my first instinct was to, I mean, yes, but you know, if you go back far enough, there's a time where it's, it hasn't, it hasn't, I was going to say hardened,

but it hasn't, it hasn't grown or evolved or developed. It hasn't developed yet enough into something that I think is self-centered. You were wrong, sorry. I think as children. You have the wrong words. Yeah. That really hurt.

Thank you for noticing that. I was like, I wanted to help you so badly, and I was wrong, and I got an F. And I don't get a lot of it. No, no, no, I think it's a C because you had the effort. No way C is worse, honestly, because now I'm on the board. I don't even want to be on the board. Sorry. You're at an age where it hasn't developed yet.

It hasn't really developed into something that I think is like you could describe with any negativity. There's an age at which, you know, you're just looking earnestly out into the world. That's what I'm hearing. That's what I'm imagining you at like six, maybe, where you're just, you know, you want to do well. I have a question, actually, Alison, I've been listening to Amy Poller's podcast, good hang. So good. So good. And she also is a rule follower.

And a theme that she sort of touches on in a few episodes is, as a rule follower, she has a hard time with people who aren't. And she tells really funny stories of, like, leaving notes. when she was at SNL for, like, people who aren't peeing appropriately in the bathroom, in her opinion, which I think is so funny. And how airports are really hard for her, because that's a place where, like, people are not following the rules a lot, and that's, like, very triggering for her. And I'm curious, as, like, a rule follower, as a kid, how did you interact with kids

who weren't rule followers? Was that triggering for you sort of? It's like, yeah, it's really hard. I think I associate it kind of with, like, loosey-goosey boundary kids, which also were really difficult for me, like, especially if they were older, because older kids were everything, everything. What was cooler than an older kid? Nothing.

Still, when I think about the kids that were older than me when I was a kid, they feel older than me now, even at that age. Like, a, oh, my God, I want to use their full names, but, like, a 15-year-old version of, like, that cool kid is still cooler than me now and will always be 100%. So I think that. was always really hard because I thought they were so cool, and I couldn't, and I knew that that was what it took to be cool for so much of that for those years in middle school. The cool kids are not following rules, not in our culture anyway.

They are the ones that are kind of breaking them or don't care about them or even cooler are like questioning their existence, the existence of rules, of hierarchy of what authority do you have over me? They'd give me like a reading assignment. I'd read it. I'd write the thing about it. I wouldn't question it at all. And I had classmates who were like, let's consider the source.

Why are we reading something written by this person? I was like, what? A person of authority gave us this document to read. Read it. How dare you? And they're like, yeah, it's written by the onion. It's not factually accurate, you know? So that other kids that didn't follow rules, I always found really stressful.

Oh, my God. Like, it was the same thing that Amy describes, like happening in her body was always happening with me. And honestly, I will be very curious to see when, I mean, he's three and a half now, but like as he grows up, he'll be around kids that are like that because I feel like it's kind of a nature thing. And I'll be very interested to see with our son, like how, what that brings up in me. And it'll definitely bring up the same feeling of like panic and worry. And I, I just hope I can keep it at the boundaries of my body. What's fascinating about him is that he's kind of a cool hybrid. My husband is not a rule follower at all. He is a logic follower.

And life and his isolation in New Zealand was a deeply painful and difficult experience because he was like, you can't tell me when to walk, where, what direction to walk in. If I can stop and look at a tree, I'm going to lose my mind. And I was like, I love these boundaries. Give me more. I hope I'm doing an excellent job. And our son is sort of a combo where when he gets like a set of Legos, he kind of knows, like, this is, you know, this is eventually what this piece is going to be, but it could also be this. And I'm going to do the instructions now, but then I'll riff on it later. It's sort of like a kind of awesome hybrid. And I hope that I'm really jealous of it. It really does sound like the best of both worlds, because, you know, you do need structure in

order to build anything. You need, you need some rules. You can't just be, you know, absolute freedom is actually just, it's just nothing, you know. Yeah, so true. You need, you need shadow to give form to light. Exactly. And those kids, those non-rule-following kids, needed us to be non-rule-following kids. Like, otherwise, who were they?

That's true. I didn't have as many cutting-edge non-rule followers in my, that I can recall. Because what you described is like, yeah, all right. These kids are like existentialists. But the ones I had were just like, I'm going to go fucking smoke.

You know, it's like, oh, yeah, that's real non- conformist, bro. Well, I thought that was cool. I mean, it's not cool. I mean, it is cool, though. Smoking's tough to talk about because... Let's get into it. Let's talk about smoking.

I don't do it anymore. I did it briefly. Objectively, guys, like, can we just be honest that it looks cool? It does. We were talking about the Kirk sisters, like... That's not even controversial. No one smokes a cigarette like a Kirk sister.

Let's start there. It's just incredibly cool. Well, Gemima in particular. Jamima in particular. I mean, she, there should just always, she should grow one between her fingers and it should just be there permanently. Like, it's perfect.

I didn't have the same, like, vibe as a smoker. You can't, like, transform your personality. I still, like, I did the me things you'd expect me to do as a smoker for a brief moment. You're like, am I doing it right? I had... I wore gloves.

I had a perfume in my pocket that I was spraying my whole body. I'd stand upwind of the cigarette, you know, things that cool people do. I actually walked into a store on 7th Avenue that sold, like, you know, tobacco and monster energy drinks, and seemingly that was it. And I was like, what do, excuse me, sir, and then that was not what I said, but what I said next was true, which was I said, what do people who look like me smoke? And he paused for, like, not a second and goes, yellow American spirit. He's right. I'll take a pack, and he was right, and I swamped them for a little while.

But I got to say, American spirits, they're the longest, slowest, driest drag. They really were just such a hipster thing, and I'd never understood it. I never had a discerning enough palate to have an opinion about them. You're like, this is what it is. This is true, and I've never made this connection before. I, which people say it all the time on your podcast. You guys have a magical quality about that. Credit to us.

You do. The, um, I blindly smoked those loyally for the entirety of my smoking, which was not very long. But like I never, I also would have probably fit the profile of like a parliament or a marble of light. But I know, I was like, this man told me that this is what I smoke. That's how obedient you are. This is what I was going. Um, but yeah, I mean, we didn't have smokers at our, it was like, you know, middle school, no, like smokers. But in high school, there's like, I mean,

And people who grew up in New York City don't have, like, a car-based high school experience. But, like, if you grow up in a suburban community where people are driving places, like the stakes of the non-rule following suddenly go, like, through the roof. And you have people who are making bad decisions about how they're driving. That's, like, shit gets really real. And that is where, like, for me, like, shit really hit the fan. Because it's like, these people are cool. They're older.

They're getting behind the wheel of a car. And I know they've been drinking. What do you made of, Allison? what are you going to do? You know, like, how good are your choice is going to be? And that's like, when I think about being a mom and what scares me, like, yes, falls and all sickness and all that is scary. But that moment is like chills me to the bone.

I know. It is so scary. Particularly driving. I got my license at 27 because I moved to L.A. And I was like, well, I got to do it. And I went through this whole thing where I was like, it's absolutely insane that 15-year-olds are on the road. Like when you learn to drive as an adult.

you have such a sense of the stakes of barreling down the highway in this like metal contraption. It's so insane. But then you realize, oh, actually, that's the only way it works. That's the only way it works is that you have 15-year-olds learning to drive because they're not scared. They're like, cool. There's no stakes to this.

I guess that's true, except now that I think of it, we should let them bake a little longer for a lot of things. I have to say, as a person who learned to drive in L.A. and we were just all actor kids um guys we drove we drove we drove drunk so much it's criminal it's like and I didn't know anybody who didn't by the way I didn't know adults who didn't

I didn't know I didn't know anybody who didn't and that I mean I'm sorry to maybe I don't know if I should or shouldn't say that but I think actually recognizing that because I because you know it's been 10 years and I've had a drink anyway and I mean and thinking about the responsibility of you know you're putting so many people in day and it's so common it's like criminally common yeah i i don't know how that culture has i hope to god it has yeah so let's go to you and in this time you were already acting you know i mean

as as we understand as you tell it you knew that you wanted to act before you maybe knew anything and at least that's the way you remember it it was so innate in you so i mean give us a sense of like you know we don't have to go maybe too far back but just just a sense of where it came from and by this point in time your relationship to it did you think it would be professional how are you seeing the world as an artist I'm smiling because like it all really started with

Julie Andrews pretty simply like first of all she and then the Wizard of Oz were the way I figured out that acting was a job that, like, one person was playing multiple people. And I just had that, like, innate little kid thing. Like, when you're around a little kid that's an actor, it's pretty loud. Like, it's a pretty loud quality.

And often they are also pretty loud. And I was just a performer, like, from the beginning. And I knew I was going to do it for a living. I just knew I was going to just not stop until I did. I just was like, this is who I am and what I'm going to do. And I'm not taking it. making no for an answer and I'll do whatever it takes. And at that age, even in like a middle school, when it's not cool to like care about anything or want anything, that was still my

North Star for all those years. Like in the school plays, in the singing group, like always taking voice lessons, piano, like just honing. But my parents knew enough about me being the first experts on me to know that I wasn't constitutionally going to be able to handle starting to act before I was as old as possible. They were like, you are not up for this. And so no matter how much I begged them, they said no. And the deal was that they would, they were going to be able to afford to send me to college. And that after I graduated from college, I had have their, you know, blessing, mostly just their emotional support. And honestly, like, we're so close that that That was kind of enough of a carrot for me to, like, go off and pursue this thing.

And there's, like, layers and layers of privilege wrapped up and all of that. Just so important to say that out loud. But I really am so grateful to them looking back for this decision they made that I fought tooth and nail in the moment. I was like, come on, I'm going to be too old by the time I'm allowed to act. Like, I'm not going to play a high schooler. Like, you know, sorry, trigger warning pen. I'm not going to be able to play a high school. I'm going to be too old.

I don't understand. I don't get that joke. I don't understand that. I'll tell your persona, the joke. You're too grounded now. But I felt like, you know, I felt panicky about it. And yet they were so right. Like, they were just right.

I wasn't ready. And so at that age, I was yearning to do it, striving to do it, like obsessed with watching other performances and just wanting to get better at it, dreaming. of the day when I could do it. And then by the time I was doing it, I felt, I mean, you can never really be ready to handle like either intense success or intense failure in this field or anything in between. Honestly, it's a hard job and kind of any way you look at it. But I felt as ready as I could possibly feel when like the girls thing happened, which was my first job. And that was fully

because I just became more. I became myself more. I had longer to cook. And it was, yeah, I was doing less growing while being in the public eye simultaneously, which I, you know, I think about your show so much when I think about this, because that was like I would have killed to be on that show.

I was, like, desperate to be on that show. And it would have destroyed me. Like, I would not have been able to handle it at all. Like, oh, my God, just no way. I didn't have that constitution. Violent McGrath who's in the Megan movies. It plays my niece slash kind of daughter, best friend, fellow Swifty, is like, you know, solid. Like, she just is her, she's solid.

She has, like, a really solid sense of self. And she's just cool. That's not surprising because she's very good. She's really good. She's really good. We call her The Violet. Actually, her mom calls her The Violet because she feels like a, she's like being a kid, interacting with kids, talking about kid things.

She and Amy, who's the physical performer of Megan when she's, like, doing wide shots when she's moving a lot, are very close. And they are like giggly and smiley and girly and girly. And then time to go to work. And Violet is like, okay, takes a second, close their eyes and, like, delivers a perfect performance every single take. And then can, like, just become a kid again. and is not evaluated on the metric.

The first episode of your show, when I was remembering that Leighton was talking about the evaluation of a child actor is how adult you can be. And what I love about Violet is that the parts of her that aren't adult are celebrated. And so she's simultaneously in this very adult workspace where we're all grown-ups and she's not. And she's working at our level,

but then is also being celebrated for being exactly where she is. And that is someone who can handle this. But I was not violent. I was still figuring out who I was for a long time and didn't like the answer and just kept rejecting it until I finally had to accept it, which was like a long journey. Well, thank God for your parents. I mean, the fact that they held that boundary for you.

And I feel like I can think about my life and think about these distinct periods of like, particularly I think about before I got married. I think about the time that I lived with my friends in New York City and was having so much fun. But I remember wanting to get married, wanting to start that next part of my life and find the person I was going to be with just so I could know, kind of. And then when I did get married, it's amazing.

I love it. I wouldn't change it. But like thinking about that time and realizing I'm so grateful that I had even just a few years of that phase, even though during a lot of that time, I was like hoping for the next stage. I feel like it's so precious when you have. have things to safeguard those stages, so you're not jumping ahead too fast.

I find that so painfully true. Like, yearning for the next thing and, like, just not being able to be present and what's happening is kind of what you're supposed to be doing in your 20s, but it's the worst time for it. Because if ever there was a decade to spend, like, really in it, like, living your life, it should be that one because it ends up being, like, building block shit, you know? and it all comes back for you, whether you like it or not. It's coming back at some point.

But, yeah, I really think, Penn, I don't drink either. And I think that I was lucky enough to get out of the game early. And I think that really helped, though, because a lot of my friends, I look back on college, and it's a little bit, like, blurry in that way. But luckily, by 22, I was out of that game. And so I got to live my 20s at least, like, racked with anxiety and all these other things coursing through my veins, but not alcohol. So that was helpful.

You stopped drinking that early? Yeah, it's been 15 years. When you said 10 years, I suddenly was like, how long has it been? And I was like, oh, my God, it's 2025. It's been almost 15 years in August. Wow. And we'll be right back. As you know, I just moved to Austin, Texas.

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nationwide, including Costco, Walmart, Target, Publix, Whole Food, Kroger, and 8GB. Before we jump too far ahead into the 20s and 30s, we have a couple classic questions that we ask. I do. Could you tell us about your first crush and or first heartbreak during adolescence? This is so hard. I know the second question is going to make me cry because it makes everyone cry. So I'm sort of like preparing for that already. Also, I got three hours of sleep, so you're welcome for tears purposes.

So there's a lot of ways to go with first crush. Whenever I've been listening to this, I'm like, my actual answer is Harrison Ford. Like, that's the actual answer because I felt like I was an actual love with him. Like, real, grounded, very, very tangible love with Harrison Ford. What movie? Which one? What'd you say? Which movie?

So they re-released Star Wars when I was in third grade. They, like, did a re-they, I don't know, modernized it for screens again. And that was the first time that I saw him and I saw Star Wars and I was introduced to Han Solo and that entire archetype of man, which I still is my like Achilles heel. Well, by the way, I'm in very good company. It's like a kind of byronic guy is like the guy. And I ended up kind of marrying a guy who played that character on a show that I loved.

So a little full circle there. But I fell so hard for him. And I felt like it wasn't impossible. And that's hilarious because I was in third grade. And he was Harrison Ford. And he was not Han Solo Harrison Ford. He was Hans Solo Harrison Report plus, I think, 20 years maybe at that point. Yeah, he's the fugitive at that point.

But I still was like, look, we can do this. We can make it work. We can, we can figure this out. Yeah, I haven't even gotten braces yet. I'm still growing teeth in. I, yeah, I don't have the nipple rocks yet. Like, it's all, it's yet to come. And still, I think I may be the next great love of your life, Harrison.

That was really my first, like, grounded, love. But my, the first crush that was like in my midst was a top, like a seven-way tie. It went from like just Harrison Ford, then some Josh Hartnett, then Ben Affleck's Pearl Harbor hit hard. And obviously Leonardo DiCaprio had his moment before that with Titanic. And then after those guys, those guys, after they cleared out, then like there was like a ton of guys that suddenly I was like, wait, there are guys. around me in real life that are hot and young and funny and cool and athletic. That was like my favorite quality. And I was like, oh my God, I don't have to just have crushes on

those guys. They're here. And they're closer to my age. So that's helpful. And that was like, there were so many. And I just, I just did all the things we do when you have a crush on someone in middle school. I wrote their name everywhere. I wrote, I like did individualized posters for them with like acrostic poems and adjectives. Like multiples at a time? Like were you fully, were you all in on one at a time

and then it would end? Or was it just like you had your sort of ensemble? I had like a roster. And this is also, this is also the age of AOL Instant Messenger, which is a really important thing. to bring up because I'd still have never experienced a hit of serotonin

or maybe it was adrenaline or both like the one where your crush that you hear the door creaking and your crush has signed on to AOLN. Allison, same. Honestly same. It is or a moody away message that you spend like hours decoding

in your crush who's like a Dave Matthews quote that's like you know and out onto Gray Street and you're like Oh, my God. Oh, that's right. There were, there were, like, there were, like, customized BRB messages. Yes, it was in a way message, man.

Wow, I forgot about those, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was a big deal. It was a way you communicated. It was like an early tweet, kind of. You tell your peers where you were, but you wouldn't. You'd use a Dave Matthews lyric. Yeah, it really, it really did say a lot.

And, yeah, wow. But that, when that door opened, it was a rush, and then the tension of waiting, are they going to, are they going to message me? Am I going to message them? We're here in this virtual space together. Like we're in a... Can you guys remind me? How did that, like, what was the chat space

that, like, so many people you would know would be in the same? You know what I mean? Like, how was that happening? So you're just signed on to the room. But what room? Your friends. They were your friends.

I'm just trying to remember, like, because there would also be so many people you don't know, right? Well, that was probably you. I don't know. Maybe that was a specific to you. The rest of us are. or adding our friends. The rest of us just had our friends.

You had fans and friends, probably, a mixture of phone. I'm just trying to remember. Okay. So there was like a box where in the corner, I'm pointing, this is an audio medium, but there's a box in the corner of your screen. Eventually, AOL and semester was its own platform, but at first it was just the chat part of AOL.

And there was a thing in the corner of your screen that would show at the bottom grayed out and italicize. it's vivid for me, as you can tell, all of your friends. And then the ones, there was a little section for like online. Oh, right, if they're just online. And then offline. That's right, that's right, that's right, that's right. And when someone came online that was your friend, you'd hear that door opening sound of them.

And when they left, it would close. Yeah. You're, by the way, A plus passing with flying colors, just getting us back there. Put it directly into my hands. I'm going to clip that audio and keep it. I'm going to, it's my alarm clock. Yeah. I want to win from the morning I wake up from the moment I wake up in the morning.

But that experience was like, I feel bad that kids don't have something like that. There's so many things about their life that's like better and cooler. And pimple patches would have like saved hours of my life cumulatively, like maybe days of my life. If I had just been like, oh, put a cute sticker on it, what? I don't have to pretend it doesn't exist and hide it with all my might with like bad concealing technique. Oh, my God. I could have celebrated it and adorned it, like, incredible, you know? But it is a shame that that kind of, like, that virtual space is, I guess the DMs now,

technically where you can see that green, you know, where people are there, but it's not too diffused. It's not concentrated enough. The early days of the internet were utopic. Now it's just, we'll get into it. Yeah. It's true. But so that was my biggest, like. like, you know, hearing people on your show talk about kind of like romantic fail moments.

My biggest romantic fail moment was on AOL Insta Messenger. It was an early lesson I learned that I keep thinking about as a mom because it was bad advice from my mom. And you often ask about good and important advice, and I'm going to tell you about bad and useless advice. But in its own way, important. So there was a guy in my youth group at church, which wasn't long lived because once this happened, I had no more interest in being there. Full disclosure, sorry, Jesus and God and everyone in the Blue Spirit. It was Episcopalian, it was the Trinity. Anyway, so his name was Stan.

Hello, Stan. He, I was so in love with him. I thought he was everything. He didn't talk. I don't think I knew what his voice sounded like, and that was part of it. It was important. He had a hat that was, like, weathered and cool, and he didn't talk, and for me, that was everything. And my mom told me at the kitchen, communal, desktop, computer.

which is what everybody had. She walked past me, saw me on AOL instant messenger, and was like, tell him how you feel. Just tell him you have feelings for him. Like, what do you have to lose? Probably because I'd been talking about it for months at a time. And she was probably like, I'm fucking sick of this. Like, just something has to happen. This storyline needs to progress in some way for good or bad.

So just tell him you have feelings for him. And I did. I sent him an AOL and I am that she helped me craft that was said something. thing to the effect of, like, I have feelings for you. And what he said was GTG, bye. Oh, no. The cringes in these Zoom boxes were visceral just now. And for anyone younger than us, GTG, because I don't think anyone uses that anymore,

maybe it was G2G, it's got to go. And people would either write GTG or G number 2G. Either way, he fully left, he, like, signed off. And it was a core. core memory for me yeah that's it's really bringing back to me the year of the age of 13 was the year for me where there was so many um girls I was you know chatting with on on AIM and just that you're bringing back that feeling all you were doing was constantly imagining what they meant by this what they meant by that.

Like, the way people typed was such a thing, you know? Like, you really were often decoding so many things. And then people would often, you know, I mean, at least my experience was like, people would play with that. They would purposefully sort of say something like, oh, sorry, I meant to say, blah, blah, blah. And it's just like, it was awful, frankly. For me, it never produced anything other than anxiety.

I have saved instant message conversations on a hard drive somewhere because back in the day you could download I don't know how I'm not like a techie I just could you could download your conversation I have fights from like with high school boyfriends like on my computer like somewhere and I you are reminding me of how much fun it would be to read those like conflict resolution with like 14 year olds are you kidding like what could be more hilarious. We're in a deeply committed homogenous relationship and we are going to work our way through this conflict

about the way you hugged Christina in the hallway between third and fourth period. Like, I just would die to read those. I should have dug them up before this conversation, but you just made me think of them. That's amazing, Alison. Yeah. Wow.

I think you already shared an embarrassing story, but if another one, if you have one more that you want to share, otherwise we'll transition fully into your career. Well, now that you've got to be a very opportunity, she's like, well, now I've got to pull out a great one. I'm like, now here's the really embarrassing one. No, the fart one, I, is like a light, is an embarrassing story. It was like, I wanted to, like, leave the planet and go into settling on Mars or something when it happened.

I literally was like, well, I've done what I can here and now I'm going to see if Pluto is habitable. There are so many. I, it mostly, though, none of them are inherently. embarrassing, right? That's what a lot of these stories have in common is that the it's the person that's having this experience is like

just like shaking and vibrating with a desire to be different not their like not feeling what they're feeling and having no context for their feelings. And so like all the stories I feel like the farting story, if that happened with like a friend

of mine now, it would be hilarious and not embarrassed. which is like funny and when I was in ninth grade we went on this like retreat this is like older um but I went on a retreat and I it's embarrassing on two levels this story um and I think about it when I do interviews sometimes uh we were asked it was like a leadership retreat whatever our school ended in ninth grade weirdly and then everyone went off to the final three years of high school elsewhere um and we were asked like what what are your dreams in life like what are your goals. And obviously I knew all my answers to this, as we've already

discussed. But I said, you know, I was sitting there trying to be like dig deeper. Like, what do I want out of, if I'm a successful actor? Like, what would I like to achieve with that? And what I came up with was like, I wanted like be able to touch people and like reach them. But you're already smiling for the same reason that this was a terrible idea. And when the teacher asked us to share, the part of me that needs to raise my hand and share was more powerful than my critical thinking skills, and I raised my hand enthusiastically and said, I want to touch people. And that is, like, not that embarrassing inherently.

But in a classroom of, like, just all the, like, vibration of, like, hornyness and nervousness and insecurity, like, something like that is just, like, lighting a match in front of a cow's butt is the expression I'm reaching for, which has never been said, and I hope it's never said again. B, we'll give that a B. That was, that's generous, Penn. Now I'm worried you're grading on a curve. I'm questioning your other grades. That was like a core.

My friends still remember that. And then I was so upset by that moment that later they asked people to raise their hand about something, not to offer an answer, but just like, raise your hand if you, whatever. And I raised my hand and I forgot to put it down for like a long time because I was just lost in thought. And then that became its own embarrassing thing. And people, like, talked about that. And now I'm like, that's what embarrassing. That's just like, I was distracted.

Like, leave me the fuck alone. But in the moment you're like, oh, I need to ban it. I need to go on a walkabout in the Australian Outpack and really, like, think about who I am and what I want. Like, I left my hand up for an extra 10 seconds, like, after everyone else was done answering something. So I think that's what's so charming about these embarrassing stories is that now we can be like,

no, you're cool, you're good. Yeah. Now we, look how far we've come. I'd be able to navigate my way around that easy as pie. It wouldn't throw me off at all. But back then, like, just a core memory. Like, one of those core memory marvels inside out just immediately formed. Yeah, that's so relatable.

Is it really? I think so. No, totally. Oh, anything. Like the smallest things would embarrass me and I would just, like, ruminate on it for so long. Yeah. But Nava, do you still feel? what Allison's saying, she's be able to navigate embarrassing moments like that, easy as pie.

But you've talked about previously on this show feeling as an adult, like more, maybe more embarrassing moments. Oh, I feel like embarrassing things happen to me all the time, but I don't dwell on them as long as I used to as a kid. Yeah. Yeah. As a kid, it would be like, I couldn't recover. I can think of the most embarrassing thing that's happened to me recently. Embarrassing is a word that's like... That's not on topic. We're, that's, you're starting to... No, I'd like to talk about. about, I want to talk about how long you guys I'd really like to delve into this. Okay, bring us back on topic.

A plus time for keeping us on. Well, good hosting. Really good hosting. Keeping us on track. Let's talk about girls. So you said that was your first project. And if our research didn't betray us, you did funnier die.

Is that kind of how you caught Judd Apatau's eye? It was, you're so close. That's so close. It was a little bit of both. The actual thing that caught. his eye was that I did a YouTube video where I sang the Mad Men theme song, but with the lyrics of Nature Boy layered on top. And it was like, it was after this like, okay go music video where it was all one take live. I don't know either of those reference. Like, I mean, I know what those

are, but what is that? What is the theme song to Madman? Is there a, is there just a melody? Okay. Yeah, I can keep going to, I'm not going to sing the entire song. Anyway, it was this really cool piece of music by RJD2. And I binged Mad Men the summer right after I graduated from college. And so it was just like in my bones. And some friends of mine were generous enough to like help collaborate to do these three live recorded music videos where it was one take live sound recording videos of things that had like some. Because I had watched enough things go viral at that age. I was like I think I can. If you add enough elements, of course, I was forgetting the most important one,

which is nepotism, and I'll get to that. But I was like, if you combine enough elements, like you can kind of catch like a, I don't know, a gust of wind and follow the momentum that something has that already exists. And so we put this video out, and I was kind of like in a costume, like, of the Ed Sullivan era, and it was stylized kind of like Mad Men. And weirdly Nature Boy by Nat King Cole, which is like an old standard layered really perfectly on top of the Madman theme song which I discovered with working with this guy

Jay Wadley who composed it with me who's now like a very successful composer and he and his company composed the theme song to the podcast full circle anyway. Wow. Oh, cool. So we made this video. I moved to L.A.

Right before I moved to L.A., two things happened. We finished the editing on this video and I took a class on auditioning for a camera. and by a woman named Ellen Novak, shout out. And so then I moved to L.A., I put this video up online, like three or four days after. This is October 2010. And they had just decided to move casting for Marnie from New York to Los Angeles because they couldn't, they were positive Marnie lived in New York and they just weren't finding the right vibe. And in the middle of this move on Huffington Post, because nepotism, someone said, my dad isn't.

newscaster and so that became an extra element of my video that I didn't think about was going to make it worth sending posting was be like look what this guy's daughter's up to which is just how nepotism's engines start and um judd saw it posted somewhere and i had met him at some point at something with my parents again nepotism and uh and he was like oh my god that that's Marnie. Like that, that's her. And then they reached out to have me come audition in L.A.

and I had just moved there. So it was like perfect timing. And I had just taken this class on auditioning for camera. So you were ready. You were ready. I had a worksheet. I had a worksheet.

I had a worksheet with steps to do and I had a work notebook. And I was like, this is perfect. I can apply my new skills. I can follow all the steps. I can do all the things Ellen just taught me to do. And I went in, and I was like, obviously I'm not going to get this. This is an HBO show.

Like, this is my first audition. But I get to apply my new things or whatever. And it was just one of those experiences where immediately the chemistry just was palpable. And although I wouldn't have known to call it that yet, the dynamic between the two of us, me and Lena, we were doing our scenes together. They just were, they felt super natural. And then they sent me out of the room to learn another scene. which is an actor you always know is a good sign. And I learned that scene and I came back in.

I did another scene with her. And then they sent me out of the room to do, it was someone else's time to audition. And then they were like, will you improvise a scene? And I was like, oh my God, this is the only skill I have. Because in college, I was in an improv comedy group. And that was it.

I was an English major. I didn't take acting classes or anything. And I had taken this camera class, auditioning camera class, which had been super helpful already. And I was like, oh, my God, now you're asking me to do improv. and that's all I know how to do.

Like, this is crazy. So then Lena and I improvised a scene, which was a fight, but they wanted the fight to resolve by the end. And I was like, oh, my God, you gave me the end of the scene. That's not even improv anymore. This is so easy. This is so nice. And then I love the audition.

Was there improv on the show? I don't recall, like, I don't remember how you guys would structure things or, you know. It was basically like the Judd-Apitas School of Filming was very much, like, kind of what was deployed on our set. Eventually, it all got pared down a little bit, But very often the cadence of it was like, you'd show up, you'd read the scene, you'd get it on its feet, and then you'd start, people would start throwing things in there, like, pretty quickly. And then a big part of it was alts. Like, you'd have a huge chunk of the writer's room at Video Village, and they would just be pitching alts for jokes while you were doing the scene.

So someone would come in with a piece of paper and be like, could you say, like, I want to be cool, like, Malala. I want to be cool, like, and then you just do like a series of proper nouns and you try and see which one is the funniest. And so it was part of our show. It wasn't like we were improvising. It wasn't like curb, but it was definitely a part of finding our way into scenes

and figuring out if there were better moments to be found. But anyway, so that's where he found me in that YouTube video. And then between that moment and when, between shooting the pilot that November of 2010 and shooting the rest of the show, starting in like, I think April of 2011, I did some videos with Funny or Die, which is how that part, it's in that same era, where I played Kate Middleton. Yeah, it's so funny.

Yeah, which is very funny. Yeah, those were so, so great. Stick around. We'll be right back. All right, so let's just real talk, as they say, for a second. That's a little bit of an age. to say now that that that dates me doesn't it um but no real talk uh how important is your health to you you know on like a one to ten and i don't mean the in the sense of vanity i mean in the sense of like

you want your day to go well right you want to be less stressed you don't want it as sick when you have responsibilities um i know myself i'm a householder i have uh i have two children and two more on the way um a spouse a pet you know a job that sometimes has its demands so I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so, honestly, I turned to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets

that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with the three that I use I use I use the the what is it called the liposomal vitamin C and it tastes delicious like really really good comes out in the packet you put it right in your mouth some people don't do that I do it I think it tastes great I use the liposomal glutathione as well in a morning really good for gut health and although I don't need it you know anti-aging and then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8, which is really good for, I think, mood and stress. I sometimes use it in the

morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible. Honestly, you don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. As the seasons change, it's the perfect time to learn something new. Whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or looking for a new challenge before the year ends, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language progress. Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new

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And Podcrush listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL memberships when they sign up today at IXL.com slash podcrushed. Visit ixl.com slash podcrushed to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Let's talk about Rose. Your performance in Get Out is incredible and it does become sort of more terrifying the longer that you sit with it. And I am curious how you and Jordan Peel went about layering that evil, especially knowing that audiences might not watch it or clock it. They would watch it, but they wouldn't see it or clock it the first time around, but that you would want them to maybe register at the second time around. How did you guys kind of layer that in?

That question makes me so happy. That's like what I love talking about this because I'm really proud of it. I was lucky enough to get involved and get out super early. He had seen girls, so he had seen my work. And then he's, and then I was Peter Pan. I played Peter Pan on live television in one of those live action musicals. And he was like, she'll do anything. And he was like, whoever plays this character,

it has to play someone, like, so abhorrent. And then just, like, but commit to it hard. And also, you're kind of, like, telling on your own people. And, like, you really have to be, like, down for the cause and, like, into it. Because if you half-heartedly play this person, it's not going to work. And he was like, oh, she's flying towards Christopher Walken with a sword. Like, she'll, she's down. And he was right.

And so from the moment I came on board, I was like, I want to make her as evil as possible. I don't want my people, once the flip has happened, to give her any outs. Like, I don't want anyone to have any room to excuse her behavior. They still did it, by the way. They were like, she's been brainwashed, whatever. You know, white girls are just perpetual victims. They'll go hard for the other white girls.

And so we started talking about, like, you know, who she was, how she did this work on behalf of her family, what her techniques were, who it must mean that she is. when she's herself, and then extrapolating that into building the character that she's playing for the whole movie. And so, like, I started by thinking of, like, who is. We called her Roe, just to keep it kind of straight in our minds. I was, like, who is Roe, like, actually? And the person on the bed with the fruit loops and the hair and the brown eyes, like, is who I imagined her to be.

And then she to get Chris's love transformed into Rose with, like, these, like, trust me bangs. And those blue contact lenses, which I wore brown ones for Rowe, which you can't really tell, this sort of like just chillingly dark eyes kind of. And she just had this, like, vibe that she didn't all have in real life, but she knew that that's what it would take to entice Chris. And then doing the photo shoot with all of her other victims was kind of an exercise in seeing, like, how she's transformed herself into all these other characters

who would entice all these other people into their familial insanity. I don't know what else to call it. And that process was really fun. The one thing that was really hard was by the time we shot the bulk of my scenes in her, like, darker self, was like, towards the end of the movie,

when we were having so much fun, we'd gotten so close. We were shooting in Alabama, super fast, low budget, like moving quickly. We were a family. And for those scenes, I had to literally hate everyone. I had to, like, look at something. someone and feel either total indifference, which is like more chilling almost, like

indifference to your existence, period, or hatred. And getting myself to that place was like the closest I've ever taken myself to doing any kind of like method acting. Really what it looked like is I just found a place that I could be alone and I'd listen to like let the bodies hit the floor on repeat and just be in, like, pitch black and just like go to a really dark place. And I'd come out and I'd do the scenes. And then the minute they were over, I would, like, pop the contacts out, come back to life and be like, thank God.

Because it was a really, like, fucked up place to be. And I am glad I didn't have to do it for very long in that movie. But that's what it took to play someone who would, like, do the things that she was doing. And that Jordan was so game for that whole thing and for really bifurcating her. Like, when I first, the first draft I read, I don't think she was as split as she eventually became. And she also, I think in the first draft, she died earlier. She was the one assisting her dad with the surgery. So she died when Caleb's character died rather than later on the road.

And I think like making it kind of about that final betrayal, that final moment of like, can you trust me? Will you believe me if I transformed back into this other version of myself was something that we were really excited about. But yeah, as you can tell, I still feel it feels like yesterday that we shot that movie. It's like incredible experience. such an incredible job. There's a clip that I saw recently and I'm like, I'm going to say it's viral and I was like, is it viral or is this just like all, my whole feed right now is just Alice Williams. I know. I'm so sorry. I'm sure that is what happened. No, I love it. No, I love it. I just like, I guess you're obsessed with her. It's hard. But it's this,

it's the scene where you're talking to, or Rose is talking to Rod. And he's like freaking out, where's Chris? And you're talking to him worried, showing that you're worried for Chris, but completely indifferent, like you said, or your face is just so flat. And I don't really have a question about it. Just wanted to say it's so impressive. Honestly, as I was like brushing my teeth last night, I was like, can I, could I do that? I was like, let me try in the mail. I love the, this is so impressive. This is so impressive. You're doing great, sweetie. Yeah, that was one of those things I read it in the script. And then I was like, on set one day, I was like, how do you picture this happening? And he was like, kind of like that. Like, can you emote with your voice and not at

all with your face and I was like, uh, I'm going to go try. I had a few things like that to do in the Megan sequel actually, um, a couple moments in particular that were really, like they all feel like this to me. Like you're trying to do two things simultaneously. And those are like, I mean, I'm smart, but I'm not that smart. And that feels like having two brains going at the same time. And, uh, but that was really fun. That, that scene was really fun to, to figure out. It just was mirror. It was the same thing you did. It was like just working it out in the mirror. Sorry, this is a really, like, maybe too heavy quote, but what you just said about how you had to, like, be in the dark

and what you had to listen to just made me think of this quote. And I feel like what you said helped me realize its meaning even more powerfully than I ever have. This one of my favorite quotes on racism. It says racism retards the unfoldment of the boundless potentialities of its victims, corrupts its perpetrators, and blights human progress. And, like, what you said is just so clear that it, like, also the person who embodies racism or carries out the racist act,

Like, it just blights your progress. Like, it puts you in the darkness. A hundred percent. Yeah, it's just like, that made it so clear. So thank you for sharing that. What a powerful quote. Where is that from? It's from a body called the Universal House of Justice.

It's one of my favorite quotes on racism. Wow. How it impacts everyone involved. Yeah. That's like, yeah. I think we thought about that a lot. Like, what, who are these, like, these corrupted souls, these, like, dying personages. Like, basically, what would it do to you?

to feel this way about people? Like, what would you, who would you be? And coming up with, like, this chilling image of her in her, like, Oxford and her khakis and her little kids and her colorful cereal and her white milk separate. And, you know, like, yeah, we were definitely thinking about the decay of humanity that something as pernicious as racism does always cause. Yeah.

Well, maybe it's a good time to pivot to Megan. Yeah. You have done these genre pictures, these horror pictures that are all, I mean, genre at its best is like explicit social commentary, right? I mean, we've known that for, we've known that for generations of filmmaking. But I think with Get Out, that was, it was not the first to use a genre. device as an explicit social commentary but it did it undoubtedly more deftly and more brilliantly and more novelty than it had ever been done and and i hadn't actually thought about this until this moment but i wonder if it ushered in the era we have now it certainly had to have played a

role in the era we have now where you know you consider every a 24 film is like a dramatic horror which is some kind of commentary on human nature and civilization, society, in its current state. It really is. We live in an era of explicit social commentary with brilliant use of genre pictures. And so Megan is like, for you at least, the evolution of that. And as I understand, I mean, were you an executive producer on the first one too? Yeah. So I don't know how much a part of its sort of generation you were or you just signed on.

and really, like, loved the premise and just helped to deepen it. But, I mean, there's a number of things in it that I felt were pretty novel. This connection between technology and parenting. And then you're talking about attachment theory. Like, I can't think of another film where we're, like, really talking about attachment theory

in a way that doesn't feel either super esoteric or, like, really didactic and kind of like, oh, shut up. You know, it's like it's just enough. It's like the premise of a joke. Yeah. Yeah. It's just enough that it really makes sense

in a really good horror picture, you know what I mean? And so I've just, just tell us about that, how you like became aware of the project, what you, what excited you in it, and what's bringing you into the next iteration of it. Well, so I can't really watch horror movies. Me either. Like, capital-age horror movies.

I am a real scaredy cat. I'm anxious. I am a kid. catastrophizer. I have tons of intrusive thoughts. I think more than we're supposed to. And so horror movies are sort of are just like literal nightmare fuel for me and day mare fuel.

So I never would have imagined in a million years that I would make so many movies in this genre, but it's for exactly the reasons you just outlined that I keep coming back because I find it kind of intoxicating to take these subjects that people worry about privately or talk about in a whispery kind of nervous

way and put them in the Megan case like kind of campy hilarious and like unexpected and bizarre packaging but the subject matter is still in there like the question it's very serious yeah it's i think it's like actually i found it to be it's not just of course you know this and i think people understand this but it's really not just campy it look i i wept in the scene i don't know i don't really want to give it away but the first time that we see megan do what she can do with with Violet's character

what's her name again? Katie. Katie. That is an impressive scene. That's an impressive turn. Yeah, it is a and I like, you know, as you have I, okay, so I was pregnant

filming the first Megan, which I never talked about because when I know that someone's pregnant in something, that is all I am looking at is their pregnant body. And we did couple days of reshoots where I was then a mom. But for the whole process, well, no, the process of making Megan started before I was pregnant and then before I was even thinking about becoming

pregnant through my pregnancy and then we filmed it in my second trimester. And so I was literally contemplating all of these things about parenthood and staring down the barrel of motherhood and feeling in some ways as unprepared as Gemma and then in other ways like so grateful to like love kids, like, deeply, deeply, and be so excited to become a mom, unlike Gemma. And watching Gerard, who was already a daddy as two boys, and watching him, the writer director, or director and co-writer with Akila, watching him, like, contemplate these issues, like, the interfacing of kids and technology. And also the temptation as a parent to use technology to help, like, educate your kids.

Like, if your kid asked what, it happened yesterday. My son asked about how rocket launches work. And I was like, unfortunately, you have a mom that doesn't fucking know how rocket's launch. I'm sorry, you won the stupid mom lottery. Let's do the voice version of chat GPT. So I was like, could you explain how a rocket launch works for a three-and-a-half-year-old? And this very affable voice chimes in and starts explaining this to Arlo. And he's like so excited to get these answers.

Really smart. So you had it describe it for a three-and-a-three-old. three-year-old. Yeah, that's so smart. That's very smart. I wouldn't even think to do that. Very gentle. And I also was like, you're going to be getting questions from a three and a half year old.

Could you slow down your, could you leave room for more pauses as he's trying to formulate his question? And it made the adjustment, which I found really interesting. But watching the look on Arles' face, watching just, it's like a thought bubble is the graphic. That's it. It's not very interactive. There's nothing really to look at. But he literally, his eyes opened wider in response to this. Orb, like, telling him the things he wanted to know.

And I cut it off after, like, one question. Because I was like, this is... This is exactly that scene. Like, exactly. I was like, I've made a movie about this point. Literally. You should know better. You're failing.

C, D. At least. Well, I had to try because I, again, don't know about rocket launches. And I was like, I don't know what gas is neat. And then he wanted to know about gravity, because I've introduced that idea, stupidly. We were talking about space. And now he's, like, doesn't understand why he's not floating. in the air, and I also don't understand why he's not floating

there. Totally. I know it has to do with, like... It's mass. It's mass. It's just mass. But so then we were... The next day, it was like, okay, now we can ask Chachy-Bee about gravity, but then we have to turn it off. One question a day. Exactly. That's a good... That's a good quota. It's so incredible, this tool.

And it's also highly, highly addictive. His brain is not capable of understanding what this thing is and that it's not a person and that it's an algorithm and all of the things that it's hard for us to understand. Like, I thank our robot vacuum constantly. I'm like, thank you.

Her name is Ponagana. Arlo named her. I'm like, thanks, Ponagana. Like, that saved me time. You're the best. And I'm like, what are you doing? This is a tiny circle on your floor. And I'm like, I've learned that lesson too.

Anyway, so I feel like the experience of making this movie was one of deepening investment in every way. When I came on to it, it was already in good shape. But it was in, it's like, I think Gerard had done one or two. two passes on the script. So it was pretty early. And they brought me on. And we just tried to deepen the, like, you know, at that stage, you have the beats kind of, you know where the movie's going to go plot-wise. But you're just deepening the emotional investment into the characters and the storyline and what happens to everybody. And so it was a huge, like, learning curve. And it was the first time it was an actual, like, EP on something. And I just became more and more involved because I literally became a mom over the course of making the movie. And then with the sequel, I was a producer on it, and this is confusing because in TV, producers have less power than EP's and in movies it switched. But so I got and I was not demoted. I was given an upgrade. And I was even more, like, involved from the very first conversations we had as a creative team about, like, where this movie should go. And the thing that felt obvious to us, which was kind of so interesting, that everyone that was intimately involved in making it the first time was like, well, so we should.

put all of these people and robots in the context of like an action movie. And everyone was like, yes, of course. And make it a thriller and make it as creepy and scary as the first one, but also like just this exhilarating ride where when it starts,

you can't possibly guess where it's going to end up. And taking this persona of Megan and extrapolating her into other genres and other places. And then taking this character I played of Gemma, who's like an engineer and a roboticist and putting her

in the context of an action movie is objectively funny. And people finding themselves in a genre that they weren't born in, I think is always entertaining. And I feel like with this movie, again, Gerard was mining his experience as a dad. And now the conversation

around AI has evolved. We're like in a different world that we were in when we made the first Megan. And so the stakes are even higher and its presence is even more permeating like our daily life. And it's not even an if. It's now like a when and to what extent. And that's kind of what the movie is contemplating.

It's like, what do we owe these algorithms that we bring to life, so to speak, and that we bring into existence? Like, what is the transaction? It's not, it can't just be unilateral. This is a relationship and what does it mean and what is the stewardship require of us and all of those things. And so once again, this movie is kind of bringing the conversation into the present day, the conversation that we're having as a culture, but having it in the context of a movie that I think is so much fun. And I love the truest testament in Penn, you'll know this. Like, when you've been working on a movie, intimately, you've seen like 10, 12 cuts of it,

15, like, full assemblies, like, all the way through. If you're not sick of watching it at this point, if I'm, like, looking forward to watching it at the premiere, like, that's a sign of the fact that I just really like this movie, despite the fact that I have to stare at my own face for such a large portion of it, I still really enjoy. this movie. And I hope people will too. And I think that people who loved the first one are going to be, you know, thrilled to come back. But the thing that's really funny about this one is like, I found myself realizing while we were making it that for all the people in my life who like own T2 and Robocop and like aliens, they're going to love this movie. And I don't know that if after finishing the first Megan, I don't know if people would be like, you know what I bet my friend Jeff who loves Robocop is going to love the sequel to this movie. But it's something. Somehow it brings Jeff into the fold, which makes me really happy. That's really interesting to hear.

I don't know that we need to worry about the algorithms as much as we need to worry about our humane relationships amongst all people. So, you know, like all the different biases and prejudices that are implicitly, unintentionally, coded into these algorithms. Yeah, that's because of an undeveloped human capacity to really include others. And I actually think that if we, that we, that trying to focus so much on how we treat the algorithm is possibly in a fool's errand because we need to learn more about how to treat each other and then the algorithms will follow, much like animals. Like human, human relations in balance will then allow our relationship to the planet to be in balance. And you have also just now, maybe unwittingly, outlined the dramatic tension of the movie, which is the sequel.

Yeah, which is that alongside her deep concern for the stewardship of these algorithms, Gemma is maybe not paying as much attention as she should to the primary relationship that she has in her life. And the algorithm slash child, who depends on her, you know, like I'm using algorithm. That's confusing because Megan's also in the movie. But Katie, she's not, she's concerned about all children and all AI

and putting, you know, limitations on all of the AI and keeping kids safe and away from it. And she is perhaps not connected enough to the child who lives in her home and she is literally responsible for raising into the world. And maybe she does some growth around that pen. Maybe our movie contemplates that a little bit. But I feel very excited about your question because I think that one of the things about humans that is so painful is that it's that quote of like

wherever I go there I am, you know? Like we just put ourselves, we can design something to be as inhuman as possible and it's still going to be human because it was made at our fingertips. And I think that is so worth considering why is it easier for us to find compassion for the small inanimate AI objects in our life

like those little seals that have giant eyes that people bring to nursing homes rather than like human people that are in their midst and that's something maybe we'll explore in a third movie if we're lucky enough to make one. Do I get a producer credit or? Created by I think now you transcend Gerard. You just you transatine Aquila and James Wan

and take their credit. created this world. Love it. Speaking of parenting, you... Good segue. Saygo. Yeah. Hey.

You started a wonderful podcast called Landlines with two of your best friends who, and the premise is, or what you say in the first episode, is that you kind of, you didn't separate, but you kind of found your way back to each other

and back to your best friendship in motherhood and the intensity of motherhood, which I thought was so sweet, and I can relate. I have a particular one friend who we really reconnected again once I joined her, once I had a child. And I was curious, if you could just tell us a little bit more about the podcast for those who want to listen.

So the landline name comes from the fact that our friendship was like built over landline telephones in middle school when we would conference call each other and prank call other people together and basically just talk at length. Two of our friends had weekly phone calls about wedding planning in middle school. Oh, my gosh. Middle school, you say. A standing weekly phone call in the family landline to talk about wedding thing. Is Chef's Kiss Middle School fodder.

So basically, we entered this stage of life kind of a little bit staggered, but mostly at the same moment, and clung to each other like static electricity in a way that we hadn't through our 20s. Your 20s are kind of a lonely person. suit where you're kind of like surrounded by people but completely isolated in your experience. And there's something about entering this stage of life where I suddenly was like, I need everyone around me to also be having this experience of life. And I'm so sorry, of having this experience of life and talk to me about it. I need to know what their experience is.

I need to tell them about mine. I need to know, I need to just be in this community with these people that I've known my entire life. And this is, like, of deep importance to me. I have two friends who happen to be experts in fields that I found, like, very, very relevant. My friend Hope is an early childhood educator, and she's, like, a badass teacher knows it all. Reggio-inspired teaching. And our other best friend, Jamie, is a therapist, and she worked closely with young boys at one point, but has worked and now works with couples. And I found their wisdom, like, so useful. It was so nice in your friend chat to have a teacher and a therapist.

Are you kidding? Every attachment theory, I called Jamie attachment theory, like early, when Arlo was like three months old and I was like, he's anxious, attached, Jamie. He doesn't react and I leave the room. And she's like, Allison, I'm going to punch you in the face. He's fine, you're fine.

This is not attachment theory. I need to give you a background on this. And it's so useful. And with Hope talking about like moments where his behavior is surprising to me and how to handle that. She's like such an expert dealing with it in a room full of children

that aren't your own like really will download that into you. And so I was kind of like if everyone who feels so isolated in this experience could have access to this group chat that I found so like life affirming and saved my experience

of early motherhood, then I feel like the world would be a little bit better. And I think there's a lot of shame in parenthood and in this stage of life And people just experience it quietly because that's where shame can blossom. And our thesis is that if we're having the conversations we have in our chat on this podcast, people might find it and feel a little bit less isolated in their experience of parenthood,

of being someone with female hormones, which are, oh, my God, of wondering whether or not to get Botox. My answer was obviously yes. I mean, you haven't seen any of this shit move for this whole interview by design. You know, like all of the things that we talk about, we're like, let's let other people into our conversation in case they don't, aren't lucky enough. Like, we are to have this group of girls. Like, they can join our, join our group. And so that's what we're up to. And we have some amazing guests.

And I'm just like, podcasting is really fun. And it's also a lot of work. And it has been stuck. Talk to us in four years, sister. Yeah. I know. Well, that's what I'm saying is like, well, what I'm saying is like, like, I have been. a huge consumer of podcasts from the very beginning.

WTF was the, and Comedy Bang Bang, where the two first podcasts I listened to, like way, way back in the day. And I, to only now really appreciate the amount of work that goes into producing a podcast is, I mean, there's no other thing I appreciate so much and know so little about the actual making of. So I feel that in and of itself has been really interesting

and gratifying. But we're really lucky to be able to do a creative venture. you guys with people we've been friends with for a long time. It feels like, it feels like a hack to be able to take our friendship and put it in this new context of like business partners. It's like really fun. It's hilarious. And we're just absolutely loving it. And our group chat has just been a stream of photos of all of us from middle school. And that in and of itself was worth launching the podcast just to start this photo dump from everybody. So yeah. Well, you know that we need one of those for for this perfect we need one of your middle school i think i can muster one up

for sure yep they are tech availed those photos allison that's the perfect transition to our final question if you go back to 12 year old alison what would you say or do um okay i would give her a hug that's what that would be my first instinct and she'd be like uh what you're who are you you're older me We have to skip that part. I need to get my logic brain out of this question always. After that, I would give just very specific instructions. I would say, invest. No, I'm kidding.

I would say you're not going to do this because being where the action is is too important to you, but I want you to remember that someone told you this, and maybe you'll clue into it sooner than you would otherwise. But the theater people are your people. and the improv people are your people and just let those people be your people and just go hard at those groups of people who embrace you for all of your weirdness

and kind of block it all of otherwise and that's what I would say. That's perfect. Is that too specific? No, she gives that an A-minus at least. No, thank God. I was like, I don't think I landed that jump perfectly. You did.

Alison, I enjoy talking to you so much. Thank you so much. And I did as well. Thank you so much. I love your show. I really, like, what's more universal than trading these experiences? I've really, like, fallen in love with people I've already really admired while listening to you guys talk about them. And the three of you have the best chemistry and you asked such good questions. You all have your own, like, areas of curiosity. And it's just so good. And now that I'm making one, I, like, really appreciate why it's good. And three is hard. Three is a hard number of posts. I get that now.

I'm excited to keep listening. I can't wait for more episodes of Landlines. Yeah, the next one is about our hormones and like, what the fuck. And it's just anecdotal. It's just us talking amongst ourselves. And the next one is about aging. Oh, perfect. Yeah.

Those are our next. We'll keep a lookout. And listeners, keep your ears peeled. Again, thank you. You can watch Megan 2.0 in theaters now. You can listen to Landlines everywhere you get your podcast. And you can follow Allison Williams online at a. Pott Crush is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navacavalin, and Sophie Ansari.

Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time, because guess what? You can listen completely ad-free. Plus, you'll unlock exclusive bonus content. Like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film Into the Wild had on him, The conversation was so moving, and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to Lemonada Premium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's Lemonada Premium.com. Don't miss out.

And as always, you can listen to Pod Crush ad free on Amazon Music with your Prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye. I'm a listener. I love this show. Thank you so much. We paid her to say that. Not enough, by the way. We'll get into that later. But yeah.