Podcrushed - Aly & AJ

Episode Date: January 7, 2026

Pop-rock sisters Aly & AJ Michalka join us for a deeply nostalgic, laugh-out-loud, and unexpectedly tender conversation about growing up in the spotlight — together. From childhood auditions and Disney Channel chaos to first crushes, sibling telepathy, and writing their earliest songs on bedroom floors, Aly & AJ reflect on the moments that shaped their bond and their artistry. They open up about navigating fame as kids, protecting their sisterhood at all costs, and why choosing each other has been the throughline of their entire career. It feels less like an interview and more like hanging out in the kitchen with old friends — and you won’t want to leave.   Make changing time easier for you and your little one… order Magnetic Me today! New customers get 15% off your first order when you go to https://www.MagneticMe.com    Check out our new book CRUSHMORE, out now! https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Crushmore/Penn-Badgley/9781668077993   🎧 Want more from Podcrushed? 📸 Instagram 🎵 TikTok 🐦 X / Twitter ✨ Follow Penn, Sophie & Nava Instagram Penn Sophie Nava TikTok Penn Sophie Nava See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada. I met a guy at Disneyland when I was 13. 13, maybe, yeah. At Disneyland? That's like a 13-year-old's version of being picked up at a bar. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava.

And I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Planning elaborate pranks on the principal's office. Shh, shh, shh. Welcome, welcome to Podcrush. I am with you today, joined by only 50% of my co-hosts. Yeah. That would be the old checks notes.

Which, how do you say your name again? Yeah, it's really, it's hardly ringing a bell anymore. Naval? Never get that right. Navi-Cavalin. Woo-hoo. What I hear, the word on the street, is that today is a very special day for any true Crusherino, Krusharinski.

because it's a deep cut here our sort of fourth you know he's like he's the elephant in the room sometimes sometimes he's the skeleton in the closet sometimes the floating image over us above our heads right

Tommy Cavlin that was dad super charismatic dad who we've shouted out a number of times and in a number of ways it's his birthday today yay happy birthday we love you Tommy

in honor Instead of a song, in honor of my dad, I want you to tell your favorite joke that my dad has ever told you to the podcast listeners. So Tommy is like, he's truly from another time and place because he tells jokes like, in a way that, you know,

I don't want to, I don't want to denigrate the comedy, but it's like they shouldn't be funny, but he is phenomenal. His delivery is, I laugh. I laugh harder with him than anyone I can think of, truly. That's so sweet. And his jokes are good, but then I get nervous to tell them myself because it is really good.

Because you're not Tommy Cavillan. We'll see. We'll see. You'll do your best. So I'm going to try it here. I'm going to try here. And if you've got kids in the room, this one's not for the kids. But it's not that bad. Walk them out.

Walk them out. Walk them out. Yeah. So there's a supernatural convention, lovers of the supernatural, of every sort of kind, the paranormal, right? and the charismatic, quasi-cult-like leader of the convention greets everyone, introduces themselves, and says, I want to know who here has ever seen a ghost? Show of hands.

Raise your hand if you have seen a ghost. And a surprising number of hands go up. And before they can share their stories, he says, I, okay, I want to know who here has smelled a ghost. and fewer hands raise, but a good number. He says, all right, okay. I want to know who here has ever touched a ghost. Still fewer hands raise, but there's, let's say, eight.

And then he says, okay, all right, we're not done yet here. I want to know who here has tasted a ghost and a few uncertain looks but still we get five hands going straight up he says all right

this might strike you as odd but I'm going to ask one final question who here in this room has ever engaged in sexual intercourse with a ghost and there's a murmur in the crowd

disbelief shock And finally in the back, one tiny little hand raises up. It's wavering, but then it becomes firm. And so the leader marches with his microphone, down the aisle, the spotlight following him, and it lands on this man. And he says, sir, am I to understand that you have had sexual intercourse with a ghost? And he looks up at him and pushes his glasses up and says,

Oh, ghost. I thought you said goat. See, it's, it doesn't feel right. It doesn't, it didn't work. No, it's cute. No, it's cute. When Tommy says it, it's an old man. So he's like a little old man.

An old man, yeah, that's what I left out the old. Your version works. Your version works. I liked it. That was very good. Respect. I'm definitely not a joke teller. I'm definitely not a joke teller of that kind.

This is why Tommy Cavalind is, he's the goat, actually. He is the goat. Not the goat. That the man had sex with. No. The goat. Yeah. Just to clarify.

Tommy is probably right now. He's just like, this is not funny at all. I am horrified. This is how I'm being introduced. So today, we are joined by Penn's old pals, Ali and A.J. Michalka, the pop rock sisters who you know from their early days singing hooks that blew up on Disney radio and their more recent era of delicate indie-leaning alt-pop. If you don't know them, you are about to know AJ because she,

is going to be in the upcoming season of White Lotus, the one set in France. Cannot wait, literally. So excited. Last year, Allie and AJ released Silver Deliverer and its companion EP, more silver, intimate records that they made in the hills of Topanga. And they have been busy since.

Their recent headline run raised over $100,000 for every town for gun safety. And they just announced the places to run 2026 tour. A 40-date sprint from Charlottesville to Anaheim capped off with a Boneroux set in June. I'm going to be at the Anaheim show. Come, let's meet. Let's say hi.

We loved having them on. It felt like talking to old friends. Like we were all just like sitting in their kitchen, getting to know each other. It was so nice. They're so friendly and sweet and down to earth. We loved having Allie and A.J. It was like being in their kitchen with them, hanging out with our own sisters. So fun.

You're going to love this episode. Stick around. Hey there. It's Julia Louise. Dreyfus. I'm back with a new season of Wiser Than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor, and their hard-earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91-year-old mom, Judy, to get her take on it all. Wiser than me from Lemonade Media premieres November 12th, wherever you get your podcast. It's morning in New York. Oh, God. Hey, everybody, I'm Mandy Patinkin.

And I'm Catherine Grotty. And we have a new podcast. It's called Don't Listen to Us. Many of you've asked for our advice. Tell me, what is wrong with you people? Don't listen to us. Our Take It or Leave It Advice show is out every Wednesday, premiering October 15th, a Lemonada Media Original.

We do typically start at 12. What's good with you guys, I mean, as far as we're aware, you, I mean, you must have been making music together when at least one of you was 12 years old, right? Like, I don't know. So we want to hear, we want to hear like the sort of the lead-up, this snapshot of you guys before you signed. you know, because that was squarely in your adolescence.

Yeah. And then I think we also do, what we usually want is just like the kind of the everyday snapshot of 12. And of course, you're not the same age. You're not twins. So you have different experiences, different times, and it might relate to each other differently. So I don't know. Should we start with oldest, youngest? I don't know how to do this.

I've only done it once before. And I think it was with the Jonas Brothers. So I don't want to be political here. Do you want to do rock pepper scissors for it? Or one amoeba. So, okay. All right. So we'll just start with the oldest because you were 12 first.

That's great. I was 12 first and AJ at that point was 10. Yeah. So just like a snapshot of daily life. And then also, you know, what was your, were you already writing together? You know, like what was your relationship together at that point? So at 12 and 10, we were back living in California after living in, uh, living in, uh, kind of a suburb of Seattle, Washington, and we moved back to L.A.

Which suburb? Woodenville? Woodenville? I don't know. I did not want to remember, but I lived in Washington State for four years. Oh, funny. Yeah, it's not very far from, like, Bellevue. Okay, yeah.

Oh, there for seven years. Yeah. But at the time, Allie was 12, we were back in L.A. Our, like, childhood was really, like, spent there. But we were back in L.A., and we were living, like, Deep Valley at this point. We were in Newbury Park, and we were writing. We were writing, yeah. But we were we, I'm trying to think if we were homeschooled yet at that point.

Yeah, we were. I think we were homeschooled at that point. Yeah. And we were in the business. But like at this point, I had not booked my first job. I did not have my sad card. A.J. did. She was working.

She was crushing. She was cute as hell. She had no braces. and you did and I did and I was still kind of shy and I was still like finding like who I was but music was really our like thing together

music and acting class was just our whole life and that was what we looked forward to every week was whether it was our piano and vocal lessons or it was our acting class which we would drive into which was in Van Nuys

like twice a week yeah and so that was that was just everything that we looked forward to. It was really around entertainment, which is funny. But at this point... Was it young actor space, by any chance? Yeah.

Young actor space. Yeah. I went there. That was it. What? Van Nuys. I was just thinking, yeah. Yeah.

Who was your... Was Diane Harden, no. She's not still there. She's not there anymore. Well, I know. Yeah, she's alive, which is amazing. She is? Yes.

Are you sure? Because I just sworn, I was doing research for something, and I looked her up and I, are you serious? I'm pretty sure. As of the last year, I don't get like a reunion. with people. Oh, amazing. Okay, great.

Then something... But it sounds like you're dead to her. Because you were not invited to that. Yeah, I mean, I called her repeatedly. And I mean, her voicemail even said, sorry, I've died. I don't want Ben telling us this. Yeah. Yeah, so she was her teacher.

And so was Patrick Day. It was kind of two of them. For, like, many years, actually. And at this point, we were writing music, but we weren't like... I don't think we were in. in the point yet where maybe we were just picking up guitar or like we were in the next year. I was going to say, how old were you when we started?

Like 13, I think. Yeah. 13 and 11. At this point we were playing piano. And we were doing some writing with other producers, I think, and kind of making like demos. I mean, it was janky, you know? But it's not like in your basement in Wisconsin.

Correct. So like I'm actually, so can you give us like the, the, you know, the, what got you, how, how early on did you move to L.A.? Like, for the first time? I think, so we were born in Los Angeles, but then moving to Seattle, that was seven years of our childhood. And so we moved back to California by the time we were nine and 11. And was that explicitly to start these careers?

No. No. It was because of our dad's business. And he had been commuting for many years back and forth from California. to Seattle, like, seven years. Oh, that's crazy. It was crazy. And then my mom's parents ended up passing,

which was kind of still holding us in Washington because they lived in Washington State. And at this point, we had done some legitimate, like, acting workshops in Seattle, which were not like John Robert Powers, shocking. They were legit. But they were actually legit, and we got kind of like... Seattle has a good thing for that,

because that's where I did it too, yeah. Oh, interesting. Was it Northwest Studios by chance? Actually, you saying that sounds very familiar, but no, I don't know. I don't think so. Because if it was Northwest Studios plus young actor space, it was our... That's too much. So, yeah, so we got scouted and then nothing kind of came of it

because we were just like, well, we live in Seattle still. This means nothing, but this was really fun. And then when I think my parents started talking about, like, I think we, like, sell the house, we move and relocate back to California to be close for you. You were kind of like, wait, isn't that the place where we could be actors, you know? This is where drinks come true? Yeah, right. And we're like, all of them.

So I think we kind of started in like modeling space and it was a lot of like catalog work. And then it was like commercials for AJ. And then she started booking like some TV stuff. And then really, we didn't move because of the industry. We didn't move because of the industry. Right, right, right, right. Well, then everything really happened once I booked this Disney Channel show, which kind of was like the start of everything, which then was like a domino effect of us getting signed as artists and putting out the first record. And so that's kind of, that's the start.

I do want to add something to Allie's 12-year-old self. We met our very best friend when Allie was 12 and I was 10. So that is like a marker in time that is like forever special and kind of embedded in our life. I mean, it's been at young actor space. So I was 10, he was 11, Allie was 12. And so just now that I'm thinking of the age 12, I'm like, oh, wow, that's how we met Raymond was that.

That was the time in life when you met Raymond. And he's our best friend at this day. It's been 24 years. Wow. You're so united. Yeah. Our best friend even. Yeah.

But you're doing it in a way that isn't even like, I don't know. That's interesting because you just don't, you don't necessarily always have that with siblings. Oh. Yeah. And, you know, you're close. But we're close.

But we, I think, complement each other. And we have our differences, but we are very united front. We are. That's really sweet. I like that. What would you attribute that to? I mean, is it just always how it's been? Is it like kind of never really was any other way?

It was never, any other way. I mean, I really don't know how that even came to be. I mean, I do want to, like, commend our parents for nurturing. It must be your parents in some way. Yeah, for nurturing a relationship and fostering a friendship with Ali and I from a really early age. Like, it was very much like, your sister's number one, you know, and that was something that they fostered at a really young

age. So I do think that that has, I don't know, I think that that's always been with us, that mentality that it's like, this is my partner in crime, this is my number one, this is my best friend, this is my sibling, this is my blood, but this is also who I get to work with. Like, it's a blessing. But I, but it is weird. Like, I don't, we never didn't have that. So, yeah, and we were always, like, just. We did everything together. Everything together. And, like, everything was a game. Everything was, you know, going to dinner with, their parents was a game, you know, reading a menu was a game, you know, ordering just like ordering, I mean, literally every single thing my parents were just like, oh, these kids just

won't stop. But, I mean, in a way, I think that made us really close. And a lot of our childhood was very imaginative in its like play and it's like the way that I think we bonded was going out in the backyard and like playing these games and Barbies and, you know, I mean, we we were just those kids that just like you could leave us for like five hours and they're like they've been playing this damn game for like the whole day but that's awesome you're good yeah very content that is truly incredible i because i have a sister too who's but she's three years older than me and then we have a brother who's two years older than her so they kind of like banded together now her and i are are inseparable in a lot of ways but it took her leaving the house actually so hearing about two sisters who have just like from the get go so tight. It's really sweet. I have a daughter and I'm... It's really triggering for Sophie, I think actually. You're triggering. Triggering and hopeful. No, I have a

two-year-old and I'm pregnant with another girl and so I'm like, please let this be like Allie and A.J. I think it can be. I mean, I think obviously let's start with the parent. Yeah, it starts with the parent. You'll have to fight all the generational trauma. Obviously, you're going to have to fight everything that's in your

blood that's saying, no, no, no, no, no. And I think on top of it also, like, Obviously, being somewhat close in age, that helps. You know what I mean? I think you can be close with your sibling later in life if there's a larger age gap. But I do think, like, because we had a lot of stuff that was just in common, and we had a lot of friends in common, like we shared a lot of friends. You know, there's very few friends that are in our own separate groups, even now, wouldn't you say?

Yeah, it's true. So it's a, yeah, I think it's just something that we just kind of had from day one. And I don't know if that's because our personality is kind of mesh. Like, I was a little shy. A.J. was more outgoing. I always joke that, like, AJ knew my subway order, so she would, like, go into the subway shop and she'd go, she wants. And it was like, I didn't even have to see anything. And I was like, she's right. So, like, you know, she's just, like, we just know each other in that way. And then I think as I got older, I became a little bit more of the older sibling. Like, when I was younger, I felt like our roles were reversed. Do you think? Yeah. I do. I do. A.J. was really, like, actually. I still think we switch every now. We do. But, like, when we were younger, you had more, like, older sibling, and I was kind of like the little sister that just was like more shy and kind of would just like roll with you like. But we're also both Aries. So maybe that is a part of it being the same. You're born in the same month? So you guys are exactly two years apart. Yeah, exactly.

We're like two years and two weeks. So we're actually Allie's end of March, I'm beginning of April. So we're not the same month, but we're both in the Aries world. Interesting. And then so AJ, what was your 12 year, 12 year old life? Like would you add anything to that? I booked my first TV show at 12. So I was on a drama on CBS called. The Guardian that David Hollander with Dabney Coleman and Simon Baker. I was the only kid on the show and it was a really heavy

show. I was on for two years and I wasn't allowed to read any of the scripts. My mom would black out a lot of things that I just didn't need to know. And I learned everything from that set. I mean, from Farah and Davy Fawcett was on the show. She played my grandmother. I learned

a ton from her. Dabney Coleman played my adopted father. He was a mentor for many, many years. and then I reconnected with him later in life as an adult and we would go out to dinner together and just talk about life and the industry. And he just, a mentor for years, and he sadly passed away a couple years ago at 92.

And he was just an amazing spirit in my life. So at 12, I can say like I met, you know, my first great mentor. It's amazing. And was on that show for two years and became really close to the creator, who's still a dear friend. And then I feel like that's really the start

of the guitar playing for me. You know, I think we might have bought our first guitars at 11 and 13. Well, not ourselves, but our parents, you know, got them for us for Christmas. And then at 12, I think I really started diving into learning basic chords. And then at that point, that really inspired the writing. Like, Allie and I just started writing. Like, the piano playing didn't, the piano playing felt like it was more separated from the songwriting. It was like, I played a piano and I sang.

It didn't like activate you as. Right. No. And the guitar, for whatever reason, was like, I'm writing songs. And it's like with like three quarts, you know. Yeah. So that really, I think, activated, you're right, around that age. And then the funny thing about if I think back to this age 12 and 10.

I got my period at 12. AJ got her period at 12. That's true. Before, before Ali, actually. Oh, wow. Really? Which was very unsettling and I was very disturbed by contention. She's like, you're a woman.

I'm not. Yeah. I was soft. She was like so upset. And yeah, if I think at this time, I remember us sharing a bedroom, which is funny because most of our childhood, we had our own bedrooms. And then in our teen years, we had our own bedrooms. But there was literally like two years from like 10 to 12 where we shared a bed. And it was like the coolest room that was just like limited to blow up couch, you know, those lights that you can like, you know, you can hit the little lamp and it like spin, bins. Like the most Y2K bedroom of all time?

Of all times. Wow. And we shared a queen bed with all of our sub-d-well, really all of AJ's stuffed animals. And I sleep with 24st. I'm not kidding you. I had to make her, like, this is what's really funny about this age specifically is AJ had so many stuffed animals that I would be like, AJ, I can't sleep in this bag.

There's too many stuffed animals. We need to make a schedule for the stuffed animals. So they're going to have a schedule throughout. week. So on Monday, you sleep with these five. Then on Tuesday, you sleep with these five. Then on Wednesday, B, it's five. And then on Sunday, be one free for all of all of them in the bed. Wow. That's hilarious. It's one of the funniest core memories I have that I was like, I'm sorry, I'm stepping in here. Like, we're making a schedule. I still have the schedule. But also that you. It was a physical piece of paper that was like, okay, Winthrop was this day,

you know. Wintrapp. You know, toughy is this. Casey is this day. Wait, is Winthrop's a music man? Is that like a music man reference? So Winthrop is my dearest, my dearest possession. He is my teddy bear from when I was six years old, who I still, to this day, travel with. And he's on every tour. He's in every plane.

Where did you pull that name from? That name is like, that name is like a 1920s. I bought him from a small town called Winthrop. The town is really cute. Oh, that's really cute. I could think of was like all the name. It was like in the mountains. But you're right.

It's very old timing to have a kid named their bear Winthrop is bizarre. But Winthrop was like, he was like, by far the favorite. Like all the other animals were like, okay. He got the nightly. He got the nightly. Okay. It had to be separated from. Yeah.

But we were like very. So that is a big core memory. We were very happy like cohabitating together. We, you know, we had like our little boombox set up with our like dozen CDs and, you know, a couple posters that our parents allowed on the back of our door. you know, our little piggy bank and our, like, safe and our little, like, you know, diary that had a lock on it. Like, it was all that stuff.

You had a joint diary? No, we didn't show. Oh, okay. I was like, all right, this is getting good. It's like that new show, Pluribus. Like, you're speaking in, you know, like, high of mind. He's like, wait, I actually think this is a problem. Like, you say it, selfie.

Sure. That's so funny And we'll be right back Hello, I'm Gretchen Rubin And I'm Lori Gottlieb We're two friends, one, a happiness researcher And the other a therapist And we are here to tackle the problems

Of everyday life with all of you From big issues to small We'll share advice and fresh perspectives And we'll also highlight responses from you, our listeners, to the questions we discuss Whether it's that pet peeve that's been bugging you for years, a tricky dilemma, or just something you've always wondered about.

We'll talk it through. The Since You Asked podcast from Lemonada Media premieres on September 23rd wherever you get your podcasts. Well, Allie, why don't we go back to you getting cast on Phil of the Future? Walk us through, like, the audition process, and I would love to hear a vivid memory

of shooting the pilot. Okay, so, well, I feel like, Penn, you know Reve. Yeah, actually, so Reveeve was a very close friend for like a couple of core years. years in my mid-20s. Yeah. I love Reveeby. What's the sweetest people truly ever.

And Revee and I are still really close and Amy and I are still close. That's awesome. Which, you know, when you think about like those years, it's either like really positive or like really traumatic. And thankfully for me, for whatever reason, it was actually really positive. I remember being in some like acting. workshop with Joey Joey Paul Joe Paul Johnson

Oh my God Joey Paul Jett These are names Wow yeah I know I know I know Crazy wow Yeah crazy Wow that's that's more of a blast

From the past than I've heard maybe And I don't know in the last 10 years What about Don is Mughey Do you have Donna Jean? Does that sound familiar Dona Jean Goody? No that's not I don't know

That was the other anything I had my pop So yeah so we were at this workshop and she was like, I really think that you're right for this role in this new Disney Channel pilot. And, like, I had auditioned for stuff, but, like, I just, I didn't get a lot of callbacks on things. I, at this point, you got nervous. I think I got nervous a lot. And, and I think I also just was like, I was still like an awkward tween.

You know, I was at this point, I had just gotten my braces off, I think, which was a big moment to feel like I was, like, really shining. Like, I was like, okay, I'm cool, you know. And I think that probably is part of it. Like, I had gotten my braces up, I think, like, maybe not even six months before. So when I auditioned, it was just like any other audition. And then, you know, I kept getting, like, a callback. And then it was like, okay, now you're going to test. You know, I was like, everybody knew it was, like, a big deal.

Reveve had already been cast at that point. So it was, like, a mix and match with Revevevee. And I came in, and I remember thinking, like, Review's really cute, you know. Like, he was also three years older than me. So it felt like he's so cute, you know, age gap. He's very handsome. Yeah, he's still handsome. And he still is.

I had such impression. I went out of him. wearing like a like a like a shell choker you know it was like those oh classic abracoban being fitch yeah and um i just heard being like well this this guy's really nice and he's really cute and like i'm nervous and like i hope i'm funny and whatever so i ended up i ended up doing the test um one of the i've said this before but like long story short when i when i did the test i wore the same outfit that i worn for all the other auditions and i remember it really specifically for whatever reason it was like this, like, I think it was like a tiger, like tank top and like a flower in my hair,

my hair was like wavy. And they asked me right before the task, like, you know, some of the producers, and I might have even been Gary Marsh too, are asking if your hair could be straight for this. And I'm going, I'm already here. I'm clear. My hair is wavy. Like, it's legitimately like wavy, you know, and there's product in it. And there's like a lady that's like at a desk. And he's like, I have a hairbrush and some pomade and I can like straighten it out for you. Oh, no. So I'm showing like your flow. greasy and straight and she went to the like disney channel you know bat for him yeah at her like nervous and my mom you know is probably also like it's gonna be it's fine you look great honey like don't worry yes she's like trying to straight she's like my hair in there you know comic yeah so bad um and and then i got the call and it was like you know i had never stepped foot on a set that's the funniest part about this all is that like i got my sag card from this pilot and i like walked alley through like the main like you know The mark and like what color you'll be a slightly color, so don't stand on the mark of another color.

Let me walk you through how to read a call sheet. Yeah. I felt like silly things. Meanwhile, I'd already only been working for like, you know, a year. But I was like, this is how it works. Yeah. I just remember at that point, the show was called the out of timers. It was not called Phil of the Future.

And I remember we had a dance scene as part of the pilot. And it was like a pink song was playing. I just remember thinking, like, this is really cool. But also in the pilot, a bunch of chickens are running around on the floor. And I was just like, this is weird. Right? Yes, there was a bunch of live chickens because I guess something is. What's the concept again?

Is it like, why is he fill of the future? Is he from the future? So he's from the future and they're on a big family vacation going in the past and they get stuck in the past and they can't get back to the future. The whole family. The whole family. And I am a kid that he meets in the present day and ends up saying, hey, I'm from the future. I'm the only one that knows their secret. And then there's a little, you know, like love relationship between the two of us.

But we only ran two seasons. It was actually a really short show in the great things. It was such a cool show. That was an era where I think a show could become really iconic to people who watch the Disney Channel, which was like everybody of a certain age. I happened to somehow not be in that window. I didn't watch it. I auditioned for everything in the Disney Channel, everything.

Like, but... Were you more of a Nickelodeon guy? What did you watch? No, neither. I didn't get either. I didn't get either one. I guess I ended up becoming more of a WB guy, which, you know, my skin crawls. But what did you watch as a kid pen?

He read the dictionary. He's like, watch. I don't know what it means to watch. I was studying the the pheasaurus. I only asked. I mean, to be honest, you watch those channels? I don't remember. I think I watched a lot of movies, maybe.

Like not as much of these shows. But like, I didn't. I feel like the ladies, you guys probably watched like. Well, so I grew up in Puerto Rico and we didn't get the Disney channel. So the Disney Channel shows are like an area that I have a total blind spot. But I watched WB. I'm the oldest on this call. I watched 902 and O, the original.

I was obsessed with that. That was like a quarter. Teen show. I watched all of them. Phil of the Future. That's So Raven. Because of his life is that. Cody.

I could keep going. So Sophie, you had those shows in the Philippines and in China. Yeah. In the Philippines. So, yeah, I grew up in a bunch of different countries. And then when I was in third grade, it's like eight years old, we moved to the Philippines where they had Disney Channel. And that was a big deal.

That's so crazy that they had it in the Philippines and not in Puerto Rico. Well, I've heard that from, like, a U.S. territory. That had said, like, I walked the Disney Channel and it helped me even, like, learn English, you know, because it was like a formist. It's very sweet. But, yeah, so, like, anyways, I think he turned, like, students into chickens accidentally or something. Okay. He has like a book of the gadgets

See all this weird stuff Yeah We're gonna have to spend about 30 minutes On Full of Future Okay I'm really trying to understand This is me come a Phil's a future It's now

It's not blowing The Proch to fill the future Yeah We got to get Revee on here Stat No, all that's happening We should Should you repeat

And by the way I mean I don't know how much You guys keep in touch But Reve is also a dad And we became parents What? Oh I'm sure he's an amazing

Just for like for everybody Raviv is an amazing person He's just like he has this incredible glowing quality He's just like such Such a lovely human We would Back in the day like in again

In my mid-20s we would go to his place For Shabbat every Friday Or wherever we were We would do like maybe a circling friend's house He would kind of like host it a little bit He was making on the show on dinners I went to a couple of them And it's funny now like looking back

Because you know when we did the show I was 13, he was 16. And that's like a big age gap for that age. Huge. Yeah. So he's kind of like, whoa, he's a lot older. But like, you know, Evan Peters was on the show. Breaddissong was on the show. Everybody was older than I was, except for Amy, who was, I think, two years younger.

Yeah, she's at your age. And friends of all of them. And I'm buddies with like most of the, you know, most of the cast. We haven't seen Evan in years. But like, yeah, one. of the producers is like, like an uncle to me, Matt Dearborn. That's nice. So, yeah, it's wild that, like, that part of your life feels like it was so long ago,

but I have very vivid memories. You know, I have very vivid memories of, like, my room, you know, the school room where I decorated my desk. The school room on set. Yeah, school room on set. Yeah. My teacher, I was really obsessed with the wardrobe for the show. So I would go in and, like, plan all my outfits with the stuff.

stylist. She was like, okay, yeah, you couldn't plan next week's, like, six looks or whatever. Wow. And they were so into that. I was just very, I was, yeah, I was like, I really loved it. I had, like, my little routine, you know, they'd be filmed at Occidental Studios. So it was quite a drive from, like, Deep Valley. But my mom would drag me every day, and then she would just hang out. AJ, you would sometimes be on set, but, you know, I feel like there were times where, you know, you were working, too. Our parents would have to split, or they'd drop us off.

but we had like, you know, a legal guardian there being the teacher. But, yeah, it was just a really fun. And then one of the producers from Phil the Future, who we remained really close with Matt Dearborn, who Allie mentioned, he ended up writing the story for Cowbells. So that concept, original concept, came from him. And that started that. Which was like the first movie.

That was the first movie he did together at Disney show. So around this time, you're also, you sign a record deal, right? You were like 15 and 13? Can you kind of walk us? Yeah, 15 of, uh, 4. No, 13 and 15. Yeah. I think when we put it out, we were like 16 or 14.

Yeah. Yeah, I think 13 and 15. It all started because Ali, um, there was a talent show episode on Phil of the Future. Where, what was it? It was like, no, yeah, it was. You're at where Reveveveve is shrunked out. I've rigged again. Please tell us more.

No, Phil of the Future. No, you're me dying a thing. Reveeve is literally like Tom's song. And I'm nervous to sing at this talent show. So he's like, Keeley, I'll shrink myself down and I'll be on the microphone and I'll help you sing. So they have every power in the future. Like humans can just do whatever they want and they brought it with them to the present. Yeah.

They were like a weird sci-fi family that could do any. It was like they could make food out of a want. It was like they could make meatloaf with like a spray cam, you know. Wow. It just keeps getting more interesting and less consistent. I feel like we're not far off from that. No, no. This is one episode, I sing a song. And I don't even know how I, like, had the balls to be like,

hey, writers and creators of the show, I write music with my sister, and I think I have a perfect song for this episode. They were like, okay, that's true, when we hear it? And I was like, I have, like, a really bad demo of it. And they were like, well, yeah, send it. I sent it. They were like, this is literally perfect. We want you to record it, go in the studio, and we'll use it on the show.

Well, just to give context, the lyrics, so the song's called Protecting Me, It's the first song we ever wrote at, I think, 12 and 14, funny enough. And the song, it's, the song is about how we feel our parents are our protectors. Like, like, it wasn't protecting me like a relationship. So it wasn't about a shrunken fill? Yes. What are the chances? It would be about your best friend.

Yeah. Okay. So they were like, me, this isn't about a friend, but like this, the context of these lyrics go perfectly with your friend protecting you from the fear and nerves of being in a talent. show. So he'll help you sing this song from the little mic and it was like bizarre. I love this. I love this so much. He was literally his little voice is shrunken so he's going

when he's a little voice like this? Yeah, he's like made it tiny. And he's singing the song with her. Oh my goodness. I got to watch this later. And after this, I have to find a way to get a clip to you because he's done. Being that you know, we're very like, anyway, if you read the lyrics, he'll be like oh, I get it. Like it actually does work for this

setting of this show. And then that was from that moment on, which is, and they got signed. We got signed. But I think that they were just like... That's amazing. I think they were like, okay, there's more to it. We didn't know that Allie was musical. At that point, Hillary had like come out with music, but they were like, hmm, like, what can we do to, like, cross over? It was the very start of Disney really doing this.

I think the only person they had done to F was Hillary, like, literally. Wow. I wouldn't see the next person that was like a direct link from a show. Link from a show was really me and being with AJ. But I think they thought it was just going to be solo. And I was like, no, no, no. I'm in a duo with my sister. You know, we've been doing this for a few years.

And we write on music. And they asked if we would come in. They asked you would come in and basically like audition for the label. And we just came in with acoustic guitars and played like five songs on the floor. Were you nervous? How did you feel in that audition? I think we were nervous. I break a string.

We were so nervous. Oh, my God. We had never played before standing up. And we didn't really want to play on the floors. So we asked if we could play on the floor. So we played crisscross applesloss with our two acoustic guitars for like 10 executives at Hollywood Records, because that was the label that Disney owned. And all those songs ended up on the album, which is wild. Wow.

These ones were written by children. And then we had another label meeting with Warner Brothers. The next day. The next day. And we'd come to the same thing. And then we ended up choosing, you know, Disney just because it made sense. And, like, I was already on a show at that point. and I think they were, like, the most excited to, like, be, you know, incorporating us on the channel.

So I think Warner Brothers got word and wanted to meet because at the time the guy running it was the son of the guy running Hollywood Records. So it was a bit of a competitive. Rob Cavallo and Bob Cavallo. It was like the father and the son who both brought different labels. Wanda both take the meeting. That is almost as interesting as the premise of Phil of the Future. Actually, that's a great premise for a show. It is.

It is a great premise for show. in the early 2000s when like that was, you know, labels were very relevant. It was like that was, if you want to be an artist you had to be signed, you know. It all started. That's all really, that's when it all started.

And so, yeah, it made sense to go to Hollywood Records after the Disney Channel Connect. You were maybe the second one to have that link from like a show to a record deal. I feel like it's so, it became so ubiquitous. It became a pipeline. Yeah. Once they realized it was a thing that could be done.

It became a pipeline. It's a little strange. It's like a moneymaker, obviously to the channel. And I think there were some kids that were like, yo, I don't sing. Like, I don't want to do this, you know? And I kind of respect that, like this frauze. Dillon and Cole, I think they were approached and they were like, hell no.

But yeah, after that, it was just like this waterfall effect of like every young girl that was on channel, they were like, we're going to turn into a little superstar. Which I think is a bit not. I don't know. It wasn't everyone's thing. You know what I mean? So it was a trick. It's like they were getting offered, you know, record deals, but it was also like they had never really sung before. I mean, I don't mean that about everyone. I just mean, there was a couple. Of course. I mean, it seems to me like it was a, it became a, once it was understood like this works. It was a portal. It seems like they were kind of trying it out on anybody who it could work on. You know, for instance, there was like Demi Lovato, who incredible powerhouse voice and so talented.

We had her on the show, you know, that's like. Like, that's a great case. I mean, she has some tragedy to the, to the way it happened, right? But that's a case of it, quote-unquote, working. But then I know that, yeah, they were just trying to sort of push this sort of thing on probably a lot of people. And you guys seem to then, I mean, maybe this isn't the right way to frame it. I'm interested how you would frame it and how you felt about it.

I mean, you guys always, I even remember when I met you years ago on a little film called EasyA. I mean, I met both of you then. Yeah. And I met your mom kind of like briefly. And it seemed to me that even though acting has very much always been a part of it, that you're just, I don't know, you like you carry yourselves as musicians, you think of yourselves as musicians.

Am I wrong about that? Yeah, I think you're right. No, I think you're right. I think, yeah, that's interesting. That's kind of how you saw it from even meeting us years ago. I do think it always felt like our musicianship was the start of it all. And like our guitars and our songwriting and our singing is really what, even though Allie, yes, booked the show, which kind of led to the record deal,

I do feel like the music kind of in some way started first. Yeah, and it seems like it really took over at some point. Even though, of course, you would always continue, it just seems to be the thing. And it's also where you're doing it together, which somehow reflects, you know, just maybe more transparently, more authentically, you as people and you as artists because you have this powerful connection. Yeah, we've been joking about the two of you kind of being. so in tune with each other and like almost like you're one. But it is really sweet. I heard

Ali, you talk about turning down the role of Hannah Montana partially because you knew it might like solidify you as a solo artist or just like doing your own thing, but you really wanted to be in a duo with your sister, which I thought was so sweet. And the other day I was actually talking with my husband about sibling musical groups. We were talking about like how often times pop groups will get made by just like, you know, Spice Girls. They were kind of like auditioned separately and they like were all related as well. But then we were like, okay, what are some groups that just that didn't that weren't put together by a label but, you know, they came up, they came together on their own.

And all we could come up with were these like sibling groups. And there's so many. You're so right now. Yeah. There's like a ton. I then Googled it and I was like, oh, wow. even like groups I didn't know were siblings or siblings.

Totally. They're all brothers or sisters. Yeah. And I'm curious from your guys' perspective what you think it is about your sisterhood that allows for that like synergy in your collaboration, specifically with music maybe.

I feel like being in a duo or band in general, there's a lot of egos obviously that you have to kind of like mitigate and ride the wave of, you know? So I feel like being in a partnership with a sibling just kind of like softens that a bit. It's kind of like, you know, you know all my skeletons, like you're going to drive me nuts whether we're working as, you know, partners in business or not. So I can be real with you. And I don't know.

I just, it feels like I feel like that's maybe part of the longevity of it, like that is a family member. I also think when your siblings, there's a little bit less ego involved. so it's easier to define people's strengths and weaknesses, whereas when you're in a band and you're not related, you almost, I've noticed some people don't want to admit who has the specific strength and who has the specific weakness because if they do that, they've kind of now given that strength to someone else

and now they can't shine in that way. So I would assume they don't want to be as clear with like, what are you really good at and what am I really good at? Whereas Ali and I there's no ego in the game, so we're willing to just kind of own whatever that is and move on. Whereas I can imagine like a bunch of male, you know, singers or female singers who aren't related would be like, I don't really want to, I don't really want to define what this out.

Because then it makes me lesser. It might make me not the lead singer. Like, yeah, you know. And like we always, I think from like when we were young, we tried to make it really like, I think we were more being like we want to protect the sisterhood. You know, maybe that was our parents helping with that. Yeah.

But it was very like equal. It was like, you know, we tried in the studio to be like, you know, you sing a verse, you sing a verse, you know. The split, the writing is always split. like that kind of stuff, you know? Obviously as you've gotten older now, we're kind of like, look, if you sound great on this song and I should be singing, you know, harmony and just the bridge, like, that's fine. But like when we were younger, I think we were hyper aware of that because we knew that maybe we could be sensitive to stuff like that. Or my mom knew that we could

be sensitive to stuff like that. So I think she tried to be kind of like a mediator and like you guys are both equal in this, you know, you're both, it's not like one sister is shining and the other one is like in the shadows, you know? Right. So I think that was, like, important. Stick around. We'll be right back. What if the justice system wasn't just about punishment? What if it could support more productive lives, healthier families, and stronger communities?

We changed the quality of life in the neighborhood. Homicides by 44. percent in the first couple of years. I'm your host, Anna Zamora, and I'll show you what a better justice system actually looks like, because it's already happening. Season two of When It Clicked from Lemonada Media is available December 10th, wherever you get your podcast. Ali, I'm curious, you know, I think things work out the way they're supposed to, but in the

immediate aftermath of Hannah Montana being like such a massive hit, how you felt about your decision. I honestly did not think twice about it that's like the funniest part I mean Pan I'm sure you've had your own like instances where you know something came away and you're like this isn't I was pretty bummed I didn't get Hannah Montana to be honest

I thought that was devastating there was one you were really bummed about wasn't there Aragon Aragon well the story no I wasn't bummed about it but that was my worst audition ever Oh yeah that's what it was My worst audition ever and we had Ed Spilliers on because he was also on my show you years later

he played Aragon. Yeah, no, I think that's a switcher. Truly my, my, my worst, my, I don't even remember, I actually don't think I remember the story now, but it was, for whatever reason, it was just a terrible, terrible audition. I've had a really bad, the worst audition I ever had was for Spy Kids 2.

And I just, I remember this. I was so nervous. I don't know why. I just, it was for the Emily Osment character. You know how the other siblings came in? Um, as like a duo. And I usually didn't really mess up auditions. You're pretty pro.

I just was stuck in my own loop of just hell. I just couldn't get the lines out. I couldn't. I just was in a black hole. It was really sad. We've had a lot of people who've been professionals like all throughout their childhood on. For some reason, you describing that just now

actually gave me a shudder. Like just remembering what it's like to audition as a child. Oh, my God. Oh, the child. It's really wrong. It's wrong. It's such a beautiful. You're kind of sweating and you're kind of.

It's, yeah, and you don't, I mean, my, my, the way I contextualize it is, like, you don't realize how kind of like abnormal it is. And so you actually don't even, you're not even appropriately nervous, I think, in a way. Totally. The way other people, thinking about it later as an adult, I'm like, oh, my God, all that stuff is so crazy. Right. And there's so much stuff that I think we all do that we're not that nervous about. 100%. But, like, just the environment you're in, you're like, you're contorting in so many ways and, oh.

The stakes feel so high when you're that age. And now when I audition, I'm like, all right, if it's not mine, it's not mine. If it's supposed to be mine, it'll be mine. Like, I just have such a different way of looking at the auditioning process now. And when you're younger, you don't even have the capacity to realize that, like, this is not the end all be all. Like, this literally is not going to. Like, I would think every audition was going to make or break my career in some weird way. Totally, yeah.

Like, we also don't have the, like, calming mechanisms of how to kind of like vibe jazz. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? So it's like, what do you know about stress management? You know what I mean? And you also. And you already think, like, your hair will make or break your life. And actually, in the case of an audition, it might make or break the, you know, you getting the role.

Totally. And so just all the things about being, about being 12 or 15 or whatever it is, is like, it really is true in an audition. You're being judged so superficially and by adults. Yes. And by adults, you're being judged by adults. Like, Allie not booking because she had braces was an adult's decision. Like, that was someone saying, when I was needing to play a trial. Right.

I'm like, hi, I am the kid that has braces just like all these kids out here. They represent the grace of kids. Like, it is such a weird. It's just weird how many times I have this like, oh, it just gives me like goosebumps. I have this visceral moment of being 10, 11, 12 and being in like our mom's car and our manager calling being like, we're so sorry. It's not going further. Like, and AJ, by the way, hearing it's not going further this so many times, like a lot of big. where you were kind of like big where it was like me and another girl or me and two other

or like you read with cape lanchette you know you you read with big like heavy hitter type vibes where you're like yeah if you book that very well could have changed the trajectory of where where you are in your life yeah so i mean i'm getting like secondhand PTSD just hearing it because i remember hearing the phone hall as being like how many she can't hear this news again you know yeah yeah that's so hard um As you guys are having your pop star, your burgeoning pop star careers, your, you know, booking shows, you do a movie together. What's happening in your love lives? Like what's happening with like first big crushes, first big infatuations?

How are you navigating that? I mean, all of our first big crushes were like, you know, people that weren't tangible. Like people that we weren't, you know, it was like Aaron Carter, you know, is my first big crowd. Like it was never going to be sent on that we, like, I don't even think. You were never very late to the dating. We were very late to like dating, like. yeah crush I mean we had crushes but it was like very like we were not like boy crazy kids which I think my parents got very lucky yeah with um I'm trying to think first but like first like

I met a guy at Disneyland when I was 13 13 maybe yeah and at Disneyland like out in the wild you met that's so funny that's like a 13 year old's version of being picked up at a bar Awful while, the Disneyland is amazing. I think it was like, you were there for an event. The event was happening. It was a red carpet. And it was, he was an actor.

I think he were there with our best friend Raymond. Okay, this is a different picture now. Yeah. So it was an actual bar. It was, there was an open bar. There was an open bar. For sure, as there was in all these events. Didn't matter what he was going on rides.

And we like, we started holding hands. And it was like, let's go on Space Mountain. And now let's go on Snow White. Oh, go on Peter. And Allie and Raymond were behind me going... Oh, you're having you, like, before sunset. Or what are those before? I had never had a relationship at this point,

so I also was, like, living vicariously through her being old and just living like... And did you know, like, this isn't going to last past Disneyland? Like, we're just going to enjoy it. No, I totally thought we were going to be together for a couple years. At least, like, so he was an actor who was on, like, I'm not kidding, like an international press tour. I had no idea who he was and then found him. out later. Like, he was literally doing press for, like, a huge,

blockbuster found. Never really worked again after that, but had like a moment in time where it was like, holy crap. And then fell for him really... Seems like I'm here for but one night. And then I'm on my way to Tokyo. I'm going to Paris tomorrow, my love. That was very Princess Pride. That was very Princess. We wrote a song about this encounter. Really? Yeah, and he wrote two songs about it. So, so when I became Penn pals while he was on this international press tour. His parents then split us up. I'm not kidding you. I got a call

on my landline, my mom's landline. My mom was like, hey, you know, you have a call and it was his dad being like he's too busy. He can't have this. This is actually the plot of a movie. The international, no, this is the life's movie. That's a Disney movie. That's crazy.

He's distracted. His life's about to change. You know, this is going to lead to many things for him and he can't, you know, he can't be dating right. I mean, it was just, like, insane. It's also, like, they're 14 and, like, 16. It's like, it was good to have that time. I don't understand. I wouldn't know how to say to a, to a 14-year-old girl.

I cannot fath him saying any of this to a 14-year-old girl. No, the craziest part about this is that you had a conversation. It's not going forward. You're right. It was like, fun. It was sick cod. He called our mom's phone. It's not going forward.

That was the next to being for it. Wow. And so she was hard. And we were in the middle at this point of writing right and first album. So that song went. So it just went right on. Yeah.

And the song of their breakup went to know. There's two songs, something more, which is about us meeting at Disneyland. And then the song out of the blue, which is about the breakup and how it ended. And so those two made the record. So that was my first. That was 13. That was reading. And then you had a couple, you know, boyfriends, I would say, or like, you know, whatever

you call a relationship. I think Joe would have been the first, you know, like, like, really, like actual series. Joe Jonas? Year and a half. Yeah, that was like the first. Joe Jonas, you say. Just casually. That was the first, like, no thing.

If you wanted to share. And I feel like I've talked about this so many times now, because people are last that I feel like you guys could use all these can't answers from separate interviews and just move. Yeah, we'll clip something together. We'll just use AI to handle the rest. I want to hear about the future. Can we please go back? I'll go back to Phil. Wait, no, I have to ask you.

I have to ask you a salty. Is it a petty question? Did he break up with you over text? That's petty. Never. Or did you break up with him? No, no. It's because he famously broke up with Taylor Swift over text and she out.

No, we didn't break up with a text. It was like over her phone call. Yeah, it was over her phone call. Yeah, and she outed him on Ellen for breaking up with her. Oh, no, he broke up with her on like a 12-second phone call or something. But she called him out for it. No, no, that's not how this went down. I feel like it was a very sweet, amicable.

I know that sounds crazy at that age but it was sweet and I think it was mutual. Like you guys have been together for like a year which is pretty long for That's a long time That's a that's a respectable

You know Yeah Well we had also toured together So it's like we had You know we got to know each other Okay So that's how it started was You know

And at this point I was still I was still I was still single I had one encounter With a boy So I would just This alley was very late to be Yeah

The first time that you came on my radar was in the show Hellcats. Great show. And you're like a very feisty, confident cheerleader. So my impression of you has always been like super feisty, super confident. So this is all like surprising to, like I had a very different picture.

Well, that's fine. It's such a true and easy A as well. You're like super, super out there. Yeah. Yeah, really sexual, feisty. Yeah. I was not like at all as a teen. I ended up having probably like my first like

relationship around like 16. and that was a very big deal. That's a healthy age. I think it's actually the right age. You know, it's not flat late, but in the grand scheme of things when kids are like, you know, sexually active at like 13,

kind of like, wow. So, I mean, I like, I remember being like, I need to, like, drive on freeways so that I can meet up and hang out and go on dates with this guy. So, like, I really got to, like,

not be scared about that, you know? About driving on freeways. Wow, that's how. how you got the... No, no, I'm serious. I'm just trying to... Like, that is interesting because, like, I also turn 16 living in L.A.

And it is, like, when you're just thinking about... Funny. How to get somewhere and the stakes of, like, I'm meeting a boy. Like, I can imagine that's a real... Like, I live... I'm going to have to change five lanes on the 405. It's true. Yeah. You did all that's a big deal.

You did all that guy. Yeah. Yeah. And then you're, like, feeling like, you know, really cool that you, like, drove out. You know, it's empowering to drive from Calabasas to Santa. It is empowering. At any end, listening to K-Rock, you know, at the same time.

Oh, yeah. She's just like cranking rock music. She's just like heading to Santa Monica. She's like, absolutely. Just to go on a date. I'm an adult. Right. We were really good kids, like growing up.

Like, our parents didn't really have any problems with this. We were not kids that were like sneaking out of the house. They got really lucky. They got very lucky. And I try to remind them. I'm like, you know that's not normal. Like, I know you wasted a little bit of that. But they're also good parents.

I'm like, but also, like, we just born that way, too. We weren't, like, wanting to give them a heart attack, you know, every five minutes. Do you feel like they were strict? Like, did they, you would have obeyed them, it sounds like anyway, but did they have strict guidelines and rules for you? We didn't really have, like, a curfew, I don't think. Yeah, it doesn't really exist. I mean, it was weird. They were strict.

They were strict in the right ways. But, like, we were also kids that, like, I mean, this sounds ridiculous, but Ben, you're going to know this era. We were kids that were going to, like, Lado. not drinking, having like Red Bulls way underage, and the guys that ran the club knew us and were like, they're fine. Like, we trust these kids. Let them head and dance with their friends.

They were like the 78 other underage actor kids in here. They're a fucking mess. Yes. But keep them here. Allie and aging. So like, there was that too. You know what's funny? I don't think I ever went to Laudeau.

I was somehow like, well, I'm a bit old news, you guys. I think I might have been out of the picture. I think I might have been in New York. I remember the name Laudeau. I did Club One-7, like from 15 to 16. Yeah, we only did one couple times. Yeah, that's a bomb. That's a bomb place.

Wait, did you do you think Teddy's? Okay, so you know what? I'm just realizing I didn't go out then either. Wow. No, all my friends, now I'm remembering, all my friends would talk about Laudeau and Teddy's. Why didn't I go out? Why didn't I do it?

I don't know. You know who we would go out? I'm going to drop a great name. You know who we would go out with? Who? Damn Bird. Oh, you know, I was actually going to, yeah, I was going to say Dan Bird. But I was like, no.

Dan Bird, we were being, Dan Bird. And Dan, bless him, he would be high, and we would be having, like, the most fun time. We would be, like, sober as hell. Separate club, that was anyone. Yeah, separate club. And Dan would, like, take care of us, you know, he would be like, you know, they're for me, you know, because we were like, we were very, very close to Dan. I don't think this happened, like, many times. No, definitely.

But it definitely happened a handful. Whereas, again, I think people knew we were. like the good girls and they would be like they can roll with us like they're they're cool but like they're straight edge you know totally yeah yeah totally that's cool did you guys do easy a and roommate together or was that cam jaconde who did both i was not in roommate is that okay is that the question if i'm understanding it correctly yeah i was not a roommate barely in easy a i get way more credit for it than uh than is due no okay honestly you weren't in I didn't even have scenes together really happen.

No, I think, I remember us being, I remember us being together a few times, like, maybe in the gym, there was a gym sequence. Yeah, I mean, maybe he had some meals, like, off-site. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Well, because we were all in Ohio. I remember the Ohio days really well. That was a great, it was really charming. Great movie, great cast. I just, I just swore that, because that was all Clint Cole Pepper, right?

That was all, yeah, yeah. So I was like, that's right, yes. So Clint Copeper was the head of screen gyms, the studio that made that then, and they must have made room. made too, right? They didn't. Yeah, that's why I just assumed you were in both. And I feel like I little, I feel probably like the last time I saw you was maybe a screen name. Premier.

Premiere? Wow. It must have been. Yeah, I don't know when it would have been. But it's like sometimes, like probably 15 years ago. That's because Emma and her had become really close at that point. We had met Taylor Swift at the EZA premiere because she came. Oh, yeah.

I think you're right. Because she came to be with Emma. Yeah. And that was like, did you name? Saucid Girl after that? Or was that happening? That was happening. Gossip Girl was during all that because EZA, I mean, EZA, I remember getting the call for, for my manager.

I think I'm like 21 or 22. I was probably 21. And I remember getting the call for like the script and they said it's high school. And I was like, there's no fucking way that I can play a high schooler again. Like, guys, it just seems to be a stretch. Like, do I have to wear a backpack? Yeah. And I was like, literally, guys, I'm not going to wear a fucking backpack.

Like, I'm not going to do it. It's too much. I'm a 22-year-old man. And, and, and, and, and here's it, do you remember reading the script? The script was a hard R. The script was a lot of swearing. I remember, I read the script, I feel like, too, and it's kind of early stages. And I remember it being really hard R.

And, like, you're specifically being really hard. Yes. You know, your character was like, you're constantly saying bitch. She was a. Yeah. Absolutely. And honestly, like, in the grand scheme of things, I feel like my role kind of, like, got shafted the most

because some of the funniest stuff was the stuff that was like really... It was the really... It was the most important. Yeah, that's true. I don't remember anything well enough to be able to say, like, no, but it turned out well. Like... Right. But actually, I have thought about that periodically throughout the years.

That's funny. I don't think that it was... I mean, I think it was like a congenial bait-and-switch. I think there... I think the studio screen gyms knew we are never making the R version of this. That's not marketable. But they did kind of get that phenomenal supporting adult cast because it was a refreshingly, you know, quote,

Yeah, it was like a team work super bad for, you know. Yeah, yeah. And with the hard art, like, version on the page, it was like, wow, this is a really different, like, how, you know, it was just, it was, I mean, it was really funny. It grabbed everyone and the right amount of subversive. And I remember, I don't know if you recall this, we shot both versions.

Every scene had the R version. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Every scene had the R version and had the PG. Yeah. Somebody needs to release the R version. Yeah.

That's crazy. That's a mine. What's that called? Gold mine. It's called commercially viable, Mava. We're going to have to learn something about that. A gold mine. That's a gold mine.

I'm crazy. Yeah, I can't believe it hasn't been really. that for you or our version. But yes. Word in it? Yeah. Wow. Yeah.

Wow. Wow. Cutting edge. But I don't think Dan, I don't think I had any seas of Dan. And by the way, for the listeners, Dan is in that film as well. Wait, so would you have met Dan in during this filming and you already knew him? So I worked with Dan. Now, this is a great 12-year-old story.

This is so dark. This is dark. I worked with Dan on The Guardian when I was 12th. All right. He guest starred, and he played my cousin who sexually assaulted me. And it was such a gnarly scene. They had to use a body devil for my character. And Dan was so disturbed when he books the wall.

And him and I got to know each other on set. And I'm this little girl that's like, he literally rapes my character in the show. Like, it's awful. And it was so heavy. And then Dan and I literally, like, after that show, like, we became friends. Like we, to this day, we talk about, like, how insane is. I think we also. like had a similar, I mean, when you guys met, obviously,

yeah, it sat, but had like a similar sense of humor, you know. Very much. Obviously, you were younger than Dan, but then once we started to get like closer and we all kind of met, it was kind of like, oh, like, you're our type of person. And then Dan put TZA with Allie and it was like, oh, you're. And then I was like, oh, my gosh, I'm so excited, we're going to happen. And then it was like, I had no seeds with him. I was like, damn.

I have so many questions. I just have to know for that scene, how old was your character? She was the 12, 13. So they filmed it with a body double Like the audience sees the rape They don't just like turn the camera away You don't see you don't see the rape But you see him like get on top of her like violently

And then they cut away And there's you see like underwear get like pulled off like legs It's awful But it was an adult body double Who just was styled to look like a kit She was tiny And like it's crazy how they did stuff like that It was a CBS show so they couldn't show much

I mean thank God Yeah Yeah That's crazy. So that was our intro to Dan. Dan is also a sweetheart. Dan is like... Dan is an angel.

Yeah, I would think of him like a little bit of a guardian angel in that world of like, you know, clubbing. Because he is, he's just like, he's just, you know, got a good heart. You can't fall in with the wrong people when you're doing that. 100%. He's the kindest, like, sweetest, funniest, funniest, wittiest guy I think I've ever met. And he's so not like a typical, like, quote-unquote actor. That's what I think I love. these guys.

It's like him, not a revere you. You guys don't have like the actor syndrome, which we all know exists. That is true. You're just like people that you like, you know, would just be like dying laughing with, you know, at dinner or like, you know, driving to like a, you know, a concert or something. Like just like you would just help the absolute best time. And we're still friends with him as wife. We're still friends.

We don't get a C-Dan that much. But we saw him this, he saw him this past year with his daughter with his daughter because they came. That's amazing. Does he have one kid or more than one kid? One, one, yeah. There's one. I haven't seen Dan in years, but it's like he's the kind of person where at this point we probably see each other every like five or six years.

And it's like we pick up right where we left off. We're like, all right, well, you know, see you in five years. See you when I see you. Yeah. See you at our 50th. His apartment was such a safe space that I, for my memory of it. His apartment, because like I have really kind of a dark memory and orientation of that time. You know, you guys said that you sort of had,

there's there's a couple ways it can go right it can it can be very dark it can be medial you can be sort of grayish or it can be like surprisingly not dark at all yeah i had i had kind of a dark turn of things but um but his apartment was like very much a just one of the actually one of the safest spaces i remember in um in it all yeah i'm i remember i'm sorry that you had such a rough yeah i mean it's you know it's a write a book about it you want to Did you really? Well, we wrote a book. Yeah, Navajo it up right there.

Oh, I can all this, yeah. The senior guys' post about it. Oh. Yeah. Well, we got to read it and get traumatized. Yeah. Yeah, no, his apartment was, you're right, like a spot that felt like safe and that you could just be yourself. I think, like, his contact in my phone is literally a photo of me.

wearing like red goggle, you know, red goggles that he had like in his house that were just like, like, by scooping around. And that's like contact. And that's the contact photo. That's cute. Pretty funny. Let's talk about your music even more than we have. It feels like your first like really big hit is potential breakup song. Is that true? Yeah. I would say the first like big single was Rush. Like that is really what kicked it off. Like that at least, at least in the Disney Channel worlds, no one rushed. Those two hit. But none of these songs. But none of these songs, but not even hit the The sound of these songs were radio hits. Like, if you think about these songs are like, like, yeah, like they're just kind of sleepers in a way.

Yeah, they were hits in their own way, but in a very insular way. But potential break-up song was probably the big hit. In Lolletown? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but Rush. Maybe the fan-based building, because it sounds like, though, you know, you've got lifelong kind of hardcore fans. No, we do. I do feel like we have like life-lifers, which is amazing and not many people can say that.

So it obviously does speak to the music. I just don't think we ever had, like, the typical, quote-unquote, like, hit single. You know what I mean? Like, we never really, like, crapped the Billboard 10. We never, like, we never got on the radio in a way that was like, oh, wow, they've really. Yeah, I think we were too young. It just didn't, we were too young, which is funny, which is funny, given the now of so many people, which is great. There's no age break at a really young age.

But, like, if you said, hey, you know, we're going to put a 16 and 14-year-old cover, you know. On Z-100 on Z-100. It's not any mean, like, their children. They belong, you know, very. Radio Disney. So, like, yeah, I mean, the music now, which is funny, has changed, I think, so drastically from potential breakup song in a way, like, that I feel like people still know, like, oh, that's Allie and A.J. But it feels like the music has really evolved from those days, you know? But there's such a core following who have stepped with us since the beginning

that they're willing to, like, totally just stay on the ride, even though it's completely different music, which is really cool. And we always play, like, potential breakup song and Rush and no one and stuff, you know, at shows. We're very, we're very inclusive of, like, wanting to give the fans those songs, because I think it's important. And I try to think of, we try to think of going to concerts ourselves and wanting to hear the songs that are our favorite song from the artist, you know? Yeah, that's very generous.

I want to be selfish and just be like, I'm only playing you the new stuff. But I think it's important, you know, and it's actually, it is fun to play. How did it feel to have that song come back into, like, huge popularity on social media? Yeah, how do that feel for you guys? It's crazy, because in some ways, it feels like potential break-up song got bigger just from the TikTok world than it was when it first came out. So, yeah, it not only had a resurgence, but I almost think surpassed what it was in the beginning.

It's crazy. I mean, it really surprised Ali and I when that year hit, and we saw that that song had taken off in a new way. I think a lot of the people that discovered that song weren't really, they didn't know about the song when it first came out because they were so young. So they were either being introduced to it through a sibling or maybe an older friend or I don't know how some of these people even got to know potential breakup song. But it landed on TikTok in a way that was like, wow, how is this generation picking this song up right now?

But some people think, you know, it was a brand new song, which was also hilarious. You know, and we ended up just kind of just fully committing to it and going, all right, we weren't really going to join this TikTok craze. We just committed to the bit and said, let's just. You re-recorded it, right? We did. We re-recorded it, an explicit, an R-rated version, if you will. We say FAA. The original EZA version.

It's not easy A. It's a Harvard art. We see the C word in it. It's crazy. And it's, yeah, so we literally play that version now live, and it's like, it's just fun. I think everyone just feels like it's a way to, like, you know, release their inner child. And it's always so fun, actually, to play that song live. It doesn't really get old, even though we play it all the time.

It's so good. I can't get over how intertwined. the making of silver deliverer is with your birth alley it's just the fact that you went and recorded a week after your son was born and brought him with you the way you described it I've heard you describe it sounds so beautiful but having been postpart of myself like one week just it's like I have so many questions like logistically I don't think we need to get into that but but I just want to hear more about that time and what that recording was like I love talking about this moment.

I think part of the reason is because it was a really positive birth. And I think the reason why it was a positive birth was I was reading a lot of, and watching a lot of positive births and birth stories. And I really got like just fascinated with this whole space. And Penn, I know, you know, Domino has been in this world for years now. And I really went into it completely blind and I just was like I want to learn as much as I possibly can about like just how to get through this labor and these are the things I'm really wanting to like get from my labor and these are the things I'm really not willing to like, you know, negotiate and that in some roundabout way, you know, brought me to the home birth space, which is kind of crazy because that's not where we started. It was like I was going to go in, Cedars, you know, the famous doctor that's, you know, delivering all the famous babies vibes. And then I just,

it was weird. It's just like, it took like two, three little things that was like a trickle-down effect. And then like next thing I know, I'm like telling my husband, like, I think I should have a homebirth. And he's like, huh? And we're like, yeah. Like, let's meet a midwife. Let's do this. And then I'm telling AJ. And she's like, I'm, I'm into it. Let's do this. From the get-go, I was like, Don, you can do it. I support you fully. And then I think, again, because it was this really, like, you know, dream birth situation, I think my postpartum was so positive, and I was on such a high.

I was like, yeah, let's get back to the studio. Like, I got to cut those vocals. Like, the baby is great. And, like, you know, the empirical cord was burned in our bed. And we're just like, you know, Steve and I are just like, you know, this high and AJ's also like in this baby high too she comes over you know two days after I've given birth and Santa Barbara I'm surprised you weren't there to catch it frankly honestly AJ yeah I should have bad I mean I met him two days later I'm very upset I didn't catch him

yeah 48 hours yeah it's a long time very long time oh it's too long if you ask me um but yeah like we were already in the middle of long long story short we were in the middle of our like recording, like we'd started pre-production. He came early. He came to two and a half weeks early. So we were like, we knew we were really like, you know, riding it close. But we were like, it's my first pregnancy. I'll probably be late.

Like, we've got like three weeks, you know, to really like cut this record. And it'll probably be like perfect. Which is plenty of time. Like we thought we're going to be done with this by the time he comes. And then literally, I'm not kidding you. We had one day a pre-pro, which I'm actually so glad we have. The second day, it's like my water breaks at AJ's house in Laurel Canyon. And the studio is into Panga Canyon.

And we just are like, oh, we got to immediately leave. Like, we're out. You know, she trails us with her boyfriend to get us all set up at the house in Santa Barbara. And then she's kind of like, bye, I love you, you know, like leaving, knowing like the next time I see you, you're going to probably have a game. Which is weird. Like, that was a very specific sister moment. Crazy. And then I went back to Topanga.

She went back to Topanga. She helped cut the band. I'm on like a Zoom link, you know, like kind of just like, mm-hmm. Yeah, it sounds great. you know, like, in kind of some, like, light contractions, but it's not, like, really heavy duty yet. Yeah, there was one day where she really was, like, adamant about, I need to be involved in a Zoom.

I was having such foam off. But she's got, like, she's dealing with contractions, and we're all just kind of like, okay, you can go now. Like, it's all good. It's so wild. And then eventually it was like, all of a sudden, like, the camera went black, and I'm like, I think we can end this session.

I think we're good. And then it was kind of like, maybe 24 hours later or something, probably. Yeah, kind of vibe he was delivered. But, yeah, we just like, you know, we'd already rented this house in Topanga and Jonathan Wilson, who produced the album, was just like such a Salt of the Earth, wonderful human.

And was a really lovely musician. I love his work. He's amazing. And the coolest human being. Yeah, truly. And he also, funny enough, had just found out that he was, that they were pregnant,

which was really cool. So we were in this, like, bubble of like, well this is wild like just sound out that you know your wife is like you know only like maybe like a month in and was it there first by chance yeah yeah and so so yeah so yeah so jack we literally brought to the studio on day seven seven I think and we brought all of the stuff that we kind of needed and I remember like I got a little bit emotional like we checked into the Airbnb you know that we were at you know this right like I kind of started crying like did I do the right thing that like we're here and like you know I was used to our little bubble a little bit you know and it wasn't

like it was like bad vibes or anything it was just kind of like I think I was also kind of exhausted you know I was still like healing and feeling a little guilty is it okay that we took out of hand we put him out of Santa Barbara and we're doing this and and my husband just like we can drive back home right now if you want you know and I was kind of like let's like just give it like a couple days and if I feel really bad and it's not right like then we'll just like you know go back home and then like cut too it's like you know I'm holding the baby and like cutting vocals while he's, like, feeding, you know, it was just like, and that baby just... Were you actually?

Were you, he were holding him. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There's like a lot of photos. We have actually really cool video of like him. I mean, he is so tiny. I'm like, this is psychotic. There's moments where it's like, I'm holding him in the control room with his giant

headphones on and Allie's singing and then we switched so that I could go sing and Allie was with him. So we had a really good Jonathan's holding him. Jonathan's holding him. I mean, like the, like, my husband's there. You know, helped him. My husband was also so like in the trenches with us too, you know, like. Like, this one possible if I didn't have a husband that was like, yeah, like, while you're cutting vocals, I'm just here with him.

And, like, you know, I would pump if I kind of need, I didn't really even need to. I was just there in the studio. So, like, when I thing, I'd just come right back and then be like, oh, he's been asleep for three hours. Like, just keep him sitting. And then the cool thing is we all lived, so because Jonathan was in Topanga and Allie and I didn't want to do the drive every day. Like, we all ended up living in the same house together. So it was me, Ali, the newborn, Stephen, my partner. Stephen and AJ's partner

are like cooking all these beautiful that's actually great because immediately postpartum you need a lot of different kinds of support like social practical just it's it's such a huge change that new parents go through and it's also like deeply spiritual portal energy

I think even the deepest of like nihilistic atheists when you live through when you finally just see like how everybody gets here you're like what yes this is how this is happening all the time like this like where we just pop out everybody does this everybody's done this and you need you know obviously when we look back on our like ancestors we really relied on our communities right you know we're like someone's cooking yeah someone's cooking like the dula that's there that is yeah you need yeah you know that is like helping

tend to you or it's like the i think in births uh a we know there's a we know there's a lot of fear around births, which, you know, I'm always trying to talk to my girlfriends that are newly pregnant or have never been pregnant. I'm like, you don't mean to be afraid. Like, our bodies are meant to do this. Like, so much of this is like just in our DNA and like we're so powerful and we're so capable. But like outside of that, a lot of it is like very, it can be isolating in a way where that should be the least isolating moment. You know, it should be you leaning on a sibling or a family member or a friend by with a meal, you know. And thankfully, in that first, those first, you know, three, four weeks, it was like we were around so many in a community.

It was awesome. And making art, which is cool. That's like a cool that it's just like imbued in it, you know? Even the name's silver, did you have the name silver deliverer then? We already did. Yeah, we already did. And we talk about how, I mean, we were joking, but it is kind of funny that, like, my midwife has this beautiful, long silver hair. And I was like, she is.

Yeah, the silver deliverer. It's crazy. Yeah, it just felt very, I don't know, it felt very just meant to be that the album will be called that. Given that, like, birth was such a huge thing that was on my mind, that was on AJ's mind. You know, and I think that, like, the album really, like, encompasses what we were trying to get at, which was, like, this, like, celebration of, like, femininity and life and these changes. And also death, too. You know, we went through a really hard, the year prior to making the album, and we wrote a song about it on the record in a way that, like, they'd never really written a song about before. And then also just, like, you know, a song about kind of, like, embracing womanhood and the changes that come with that, a song about my son.

But at that point, like, I didn't know I was having a son. I just knew I was, you know, having a child and we wrote this song for him. It was very, like, it was all meant to be. I mean, I would all just rewind and do it again and again. like a second. It was just so cool. And it was like one of those things where we'll never make an album like that, you know, again. But it was very much like a time capsule of that, that energy that we were able to experience together. It was so precious. And it's crazy. Like, I know I'm sure tons of parents say this and I'm sure a bunch of aunts have claimed this that they've seen this

and their nephew. And it's totally fair. I think all kids are drawn to music. But it is wild when you see this kid, when he hears music. It's instant. He's just like immediately moving. Like his whole spirit moves and grooves with music as soon as he hits, hears a make. It's wild. And so I do think that being that that was such a huge part of his life so early on,

it's so embedded in him. I mean, doesn't mean, necessarily he doesn't have to be a musician. He can do whatever he wants. But like music internally in him is such a thriving part of his body. It's wild. It's funny because my husband mentions that like when we did that pre-production day, I think there was, like, us singing some songs. And he was like, it was loud, you know, like, and you're, you're pretty pregnant.

He's like, this kid wanted to get out of there. He was like, you know, I need headphones. He sticks up in this joint. I'm out. It's so funny. Sad about that. I don't know. So, maybe he was just like, I'm good.

I'm ready. I'm ready to be in the studio and listen to these songs get co, you know, real time. It's so sweet. Well, you, we heard that you have an upcoming tour. Is it the places to run tour? If that's accurate. Can you tease something for your fans? Can you tease a little something that they can expect on that tour? We're really excited. I mean, this is essentially an extension of the Silver Deliver tour from this last run.

You know, Allie and I didn't feel like we had really hit enough spots. I mean, we're so excited about this music. We're so excited about this record. And sometimes when you go out and tour an album and the tour, you're kind of like, wow, that chapter's closed. I guess we'll go make a new record. And for us, it's like Silver Deliver still feels like a very present part of our lives. So we were like, let's add 40 more shows to the tour and see what happens. And for Allie and I, we thrive when we're on stage. Like, we love it. We love being at the studio, but we love being on the road. And we've had such a good experience the last couple months coming off of the Silver Deliver.

We didn't know how it would be. We didn't know how it would be with an almost two-year-old. And it was fantastic. And we're really lucky that we have an amazing band and crew around us. And Allie had help. And we had two buses, which we were very blessed that we had. And so now we're like, well, let's do this again and let's make the show a little different.

Like, let's add some more songs. Let's take away a couple of songs that maybe you've already been heard. Let's put out a couple new songs in the new year and also tour those. Visually, it'll be similar, but we're going to do a different, you know, a different VIP activation. We're going to do different, a little slightly different merch. Like there will be changes to the tour, but it's essentially, you know, an extension of the celebrity of our tour. We just wanted it. We just wanted more.

Yeah, just do it more. That's amazing. There was a video you guys made maybe on your last tour. like pre-show pre-gaming the show or something and he was like all of you on toddler instruments toys yes yes doing that we have a whole like yeah set up backstage that's like i think we were singing like vanessa carleton yeah you were doing something and the band was like playing with jack he's kind of got like a whole system where it's like all of his little toys and stuff get rolled out and he's just kind of like walk in the halls with like a tambourine and a harmonica and you know it's like

he's big into the harmon he's just like a little road Road dog. That's cool. Very cool. I think it'll be a cool childhood, you know. I mean, he'll probably be so, like, he'll probably think that he'll either be so over it or be like, I got to do this with my life. Yeah, it'll be one or the other.

But it'll be very normal to him, which is so funny. It's like, that's just such a trip to be like a kid that's just like, oh, yeah, no, I live on a tour bus for like half the year. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. So it'll take us full circle, which we ask everybody. so maybe this one AJ you'll go first

if you could go back to 12 year old AJ what would you say or do if anything I think I would tell myself to embrace and hold on to like the childlike wonder in life longer than even most people want to hold on to it for I think a lot of us

want to get into our like teen years and our adult ears and we feel like okay it's time to shed the child skin and it's like I would want to say to myself like hang on to that as long as possible because once it's gone it's totally gone like you don't get those moments again where you're cuddled up with your parents because you got scared and you're sleeping in their bed like those moments are gone and then you don't get them back so it's I would just say to soak up every moment to not grow up too fast and to just really really enjoy the moment of being a kid and drive and how about you alley I mean I think that is a is a great one and I would probably want to say

the same I think we followed that A little bit. Yeah. I don't think that was missing and I'm wishing. Yeah. Like, we didn't, like, grow up too fast. I think in the grand scheme of things, like, being in the industry, I think.

Made us grow up a little. Yeah, made us grow up a little fast when we would have. But we also, like, moved out of our parents' house when we were, like, 21 and 23, which is late. Wow. So we soaked it up. We soaked it up. And then we, like, moved in together, you know? So we were, like, first place together.

So, like, our childhood still feels very, like, it's very, very. easy to kind of dip in that pond and access. But, like, childlike wonder and innocence is, like, so precious and so special that I would say the same thing. The other thing that I would say is I would be, like, it's really important that you keep taking piano lessons and you find a teacher that you're actually really passionate about and click with that makes it feel fun and not like a chore. Because that as, you know, as work started getting more and more consistent, less practice, less time to practice.

And then you just kind of drop off and you're like, no, you know, now I don't take classes. So therefore I'm not able to cite read. Like I would love to be able to cite read. That's a really, but like I would tell my 12-year-old self, like, you're really going to want a sight read in your, you know, in your early. Did you read 12 people before? It's funny.

Every musician goes, don't you do, it cares. I'm like, I know I would like it for me. It would just be cool to sit down and just play. Yeah,

no, because it does unlock something. That's, yeah. It would be a great tool to have. Do I think that sometimes it puts us in a box in a writing scenario

that's actually good? Yeah, I do. Yeah. But that would be something that I would like love to like rewind time. I'm just like, yeah. And then I think I would say

don't well I don't know I think it was so meant to be we did take those years but I think I in the moment I would want to tell myself don't take 10 years off of making our music yeah like keep not like you have to commit to it full time like keep plowing through the acting thing but like I think in general Allie and I not touring for 10 years and not actively putting out music for 10 years in a way is kind of a shame in our 20s is like it was like that was the moment our peak you know so it's funny that that kind of like went into the shadows yeah the act acting was really happening at the moment, and we were kind of, like, lost in trying to find out who we were as artists. Eventually got the different side of that, but 10 years is like a long time.

So long time, you know. So, yeah, I would probably be like, don't go away. Like, just keep torn. Even if it's not new music, you know, keep going out there. Shows. Thank you. Thank you both so much for coming on. Yeah, thank you.

This was so much to talk about our childhood. And thank God it was a good one. Otherwise, you wouldn't want to have this in it. That's true. It's true. It's so encouraging. Yeah. And you guys are really sweet and fun. This was awesome. You can get tickets to Allie and AJ's places to run 2026 tour on their website,

Allie and AJ.com. That's Allie, A-L-Y. And you can check out their album on all streaming platforms. Pod Crush is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navacavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, the perfect time because guess what you can listen completely ad-free plus you'll unlock exclusive bonus content like the time we talked to luka bravo about the profound effect that the film into the wild had on him the conversation was so moving and you are not going to hear it anywhere else just tap the subscribe button on apple podcasts or head to lemonata premium.com to subscribe on any other app that's lemonata premium.com don't miss out and as always you can listen to podcreshed ad-free on

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