Podcrushed - Amy Schumer

Episode Date: June 22, 2022

Amy Schumer reads an entry from her middle school diary, dishes on her first breakup, and gets real about love and postpartum vulnerability.  Want to submit a middle school story? Go to www.podcrushed.com and give us every detail.  Follow us on socials! instagram.com/podcrushedtwitter,com/podcrushedtiktok.com/@podcrushed See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada He was over it and didn't want to be together anymore. And I mean, this probably was over the course of three weeks, you know. And rather than, like, say, hey, I feel like we've grown apart. He pissed on my doorstep. What? Oh, my God. Like an animal.

This is Pod Crushed. podcast that takes the sting out of rejection, one crushing middle school story at a time. And where guests share their teenage memories, both meaningful and mortifying. And we're your hosts. I'm Nava, a former middle school director. I'm Sophie, a former fifth grade teacher. And I'm Penn, a middle school dropout. We're just three Bahais who are living in Brooklyn. Wanting to make stuff together with a particular fondness for awkward nostalgia. Well, I struggle with nostalgia. I'm here for the therapy. Nava, Sophie, you both know this about me

and maybe a few listeners might now know this because I think I've mentioned it. I am really bad at asking for anything. This is a really incredible guest we have who my wife asked to be on because she's much better at doing that than I am, as you both know. Our guest today is Amy Schumer, iconic stand-up comedian and actor

she's got 13 primetime Emmy nominations two Grammy nominations one Tony nomination one Golden Globe nomination her films include train wreck and the Hjomans which I always say humans this way her TV credits and accolades include but are not limited to Life and Beth

that just came out on Hulu I think right she has expecting Amy which actually my wife Domino is in because she was her doula We've got inside Amy Schumer, which is just what her baby was. Oh my God, that's shocking. She recently co-hosted something called the 94th Academy Awards, which... Where I hear nothing of note happened. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Any whoozle. We're switching up the format a little bit to see how it feels. We're putting the story at the end. And this story does have a little bit of a tie to a brutal breakup story that Amy tells, because this story is a particularly brutal breakup. Without further ado, we hope you enjoy it in the episode. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it?

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breaks the silence on August 19th. Follow us now so you don't miss an episode. Welcome, Amy. Thank you so much for like making the time and agreeing to do this. You don't even really know me. That's my favorite kind of podcast to do. I feel like I know you because of Domino. Because of Domino. Your wife helped bring my son into this world. But, yeah, no, we don't know each other. There was one time, I don't know if you recall, I think it was at the U.S. Open, but I'm not sure. But, like, you were there and we made eye contact. Do you remember that, Amy?

Yeah, I was on the court. I was playing Serena Williams. No, it was Federer. No, I think it was. Of course I remember that. It was like this moment and we were like both being rushed into elevators. And it was like... Surrounded by people.

And it was like, hi. It was like, it wasn't a situation we could say hi. Right. But I felt the deep, deep love and connection. Great. Amy, I just, because I know you don't know us, I'm Nava, and this is Sophie. And I just want to say that I've been stalking you in your career for like the last 10 years. Oh.

Very, very excited to have this. Not scary at all. No, totally normal. Like a super fan. Nava actually, this concept in a lot of ways is her baby because she was a, a, middle school teacher at one point and then a vice principal actually of a wow well i have to say i'm so interested in this time of life that i have a show on hulu about this time of life life life and beth uh yeah and it it's told partially in flashback

going back to that because i just so agree with you guys i think your like dna and your nervous system gets settled from the traumas that you endure at this age yeah so i really feel this yeah Amy, I would love to know just like a general picture of what you were like at that age. Like at what point did you know you were funny? I read that you were when you graduated, voted teacher's worst nightmare. I was just wondering like how that way out.

Sort of what were you like in school? What were you like at home? I was like I loved making myself laugh. You know? Like I wanted, I loved people laughing like making jokes, whatever. But and I like still like I still do making people uncomfortable.

Like I kind of revel in those, like, awkward moments that I know other people want to get out of. Like, I would brace my hand, I remember, and I'd be like, I have to go the bathroom. It's a male teacher, and they'd be like, no, you know, and I'd be like, I have my period, and I'm just going to bleed all over this chair. And everyone would be like, Amy, like, what is wrong with you, you know? I did go through trauma at that age, and a lot of changes with my family. We went bankrupt.

My parents were getting divorced. My dad got M.S. It was like this perfect storm. It made me super, like, try to be super funny. Like, that's how that was my defense mechanism, like just jokes and, you know, saying the exact wrong thing. And yeah, and I feel like that part of my personality was always there. But I think those years were like, you know, and then eventually I went on, I did roasts. Like I did the Comedy Central roasts. And I only had two weeks to prepare. The first one I did, it was Charlie Sheen. And then. they told me two weeks before and I was like, oh, okay. And I was like working really hard to write jokes, but I was really like, I've been in training for this since I was 10 years old, you know, just people saying, saying mean shit to you and then you firing something back at them. I'm still really close with my girlfriends who I was friends within middle school, strangely. That's nice. Yeah, and we, like, I'm like a total saver. I wrote journals from age 12 to 21. Like I was. That's amazing. Wow. And I have all. our little notes, the things that go like this. That's so cute. Oh, what are those called? Wait, can anybody

remember what? Fortune tellers. Oh, okay. Yeah. And like, so I just saved all that stuff. And, you know, we spend time together. Like, everybody's a mom and they're like teachers and nurses and stuff, but we really make time because there's just this kind of magic that you feel when you're around people who you've known that long and from that age. And that you can just say somebody's name from that era and you just start laughing. You know, just like, yeah, it's so comforting. And so we're here on Martha's Vineyard, which is where my husband's from. So he grew up here. So I think, you know, him spending some time with the people who have known him his whole life, like there's a real comfort there. And it makes you remember like your energy and the chemicals that you were feeling at this age

where, you know, everything was possible. You didn't yet know that life was going to like just stomp on your head. But that's also the age where you start to know. Yeah. It's so true. It's so true. I just realized I have my journal from that age. You would love a reading.

Let me grab it. I swear. Let me grab it. Please, please. I don't know what happened to these episodes. I think maybe they're like inside out. You can like pull the earpiece down. Got it, got it.

Okay, so look at this. Wow. It's like the standard composition notebook. 1994. That was the year I was born. Yeah, that's fair. Oh, my God. So what if now I just read my journal to myself?

Love it. I'm writing this at the beach. Today is Wednesday. On Monday at camp, my group had a field trip to Nunleys to play miniature golf. It was a big production because afterwards we went to get ice cream. I'm realizing what this is. I, um, I used to, I volunteered at this camp for people with special needs. And I'm like, why would that be a big production? And, uh, and I thought I was going to get this group. Like, I really volunteered this camp was called camp anchor because I thought I was going

to get to work with like kids, you know? Like I had a whole vision for my summer. And, uh, and then I got I got assigned Senior 10, which was women over 50. Wow. So I was a camp counselor for these women were in their 50s, 60s, and 70s. And you were 12, 13? I was 13. Oh, my gosh. And they had, you know, some people had Down syndrome.

Some people were schizophrenic. And I just, like, fell in love with so many of these women. But wait, but I should read, wait. I've decided, this is the first entry I just want to read this, I've decided to get a journal because some things you just can't say out loud. I'm 13 years old and I have several problems.

I go on. It's interesting that like, you know, I mean, please correct me if I'm wrong, but it feels like in a lot of your work you have spent much the rest of your life like figuring out how to say those things. It's totally true. I feel like if you have the potential to live like an examined

life, then you should do that. And I just find it's so helpful. And I really, you know, I have so much room for improvement, like, for who I am in my relationships and everything. And I just think so much of it was set up by this time. And my relationship and trust with men and parents and, you know, and everything. But yeah, I really, like, I do, like, kind of ring out my life. Because I just think that that, for me, that stuff is the best. I, you know, it's like stranger than fiction. It's the stuff you're like, well, that can't be true. And the specific is the universal.

And if you try to be too broad, then it's just, it lacks authenticity. Yeah. And you get, like, and I'm really interested in, you know, watching that super specific work. I also, by the way, like, watch Love Island every night. So I don't want to make it sound like I'm, I think, but I think because, like, I use my mind so much. Chris Rock one time was like talking about comedians. And he says, if ignorance is bliss, what's the opposite of that? Because comics notice every little thing.

Like your mind is just going on. So I really, I like to watch shows that I can just like numb out. Completely zone out. Yeah. What about then in that time, like 11 to 14, 12, 13, whatever? Like, what kind of art were you interested in? Like, did you read a lot or did you like watch a lot of movies? I loved music.

Like, in a way, I still think that I loved. and enjoyed music in a way that my friends didn't. I loved Ani DeFranco, still do. Oh, cool. Loved Wu Tang. What was at, was alone at Wu Tang concerts. My first concert was Puff Daddy No Way Out. So I, and it was just me with both of my parents, which was very awkward.

Oh, my God, I love that. I remember Usher took the mic stand and stretched it out to as far as it would go, which seemed at the time at that age, like 12 feet. And then he just put it. it at his crotch and just like did a like bent all the way back onto the ground on his knees like a dancer and just started humping the air with this giant metal

phallus and I was I was 10 I couldn't have been older than 10 I couldn't have been older I was in middle school but I was a bit young That must have changed your whole life Yeah those are the formative experiences I was wearing a neon blue extra large

Healy Hansen vest which I thought was really cool That is flies hell. And I was there with both of my parents because no friends would go with me because I think ultimately their parents didn't want them to go to a puff daddy show. Yeah. That is a pretty cool first concert. A lot of firsts.

I really liked, I read like a lot of Nancy Drew, like even at that age and babysitters club. And then I would like read the books that were assigned in class. Like I remember our books from school and being really moved by them. Like beloved, you know. I was extremely into English and history, and in science and math, they, I can't believe I graduated because things were so brutal. Yeah, and my friends weren't into that stuff. I was wondering, Amy, what you were like in middle school when you had a crush on someone? That's one question.

And then the other is just how marriage has changed your views on love, like things that you thought then that now you know to be different. Yeah, I was boy crazy, like, since I was three. Like, I was so chasing the boys around, like, just wanting to hold hands. Like, I was just, and that really never let up. But I think what's so, what's so funny at that age is, you know, all your eggs could be in one basket. Like, I just feel like, like, there was this one point when I was 13 where the guy I liked, the guy I was crazy about, liked me back. and was my boyfriend and the ecstasy of that and like him making me mix tapes and like it was just like oh my God like I just couldn't believe it and then he um like I don't know what but he he

he was over it and didn't want to be together anymore and I mean this probably was over the course of three weeks you know and rather than like say hey I feel like we've grown apart, he pissed on my doorstep. Like, we pissed like, we had an enclosed, wait. Like an animal. We had an enclosed porch and he peed so the porch, so the pee was all over the porch. And like, he was there with his friends. They were on their bikes.

Wait, how old were you? I was 13. I was 13. Oh, my crap. And so it was like, whatever lessons that taught me, like whatever that turned into my, it was just like. oh okay um trying to trying to figure that out and then but then they'd be like somebody else like this guy like jack whatever likes you and it'd be like oh okay cool like i just feel like when i was

talking to the girl uh her name's violet young she's amazing who plays young me she was like we're just talking about the role you know and she's like so i can't tell if like she has really low self-esteem or really high self-esteem. And I was like, well, that's the thing. Like, it's still to this day, I vacillate between extremely low self-esteem and just delusions of absolute grandeur. It's like that is still to this day. And how it was then, where I'd be like crushed and just feeling so unappealing. And then a second later, be like, well, I might get back to him, but I don't really know. You know? Yeah. It's just. Elasticity. of that time. Oh my God. Yeah. And now, Chris, like, my experience with finding, like, the person I wanted to, you know, have paperwork on, it was like, it made every other relationship seem so ridiculous. Like, that, you know, that I had considered that a relationship. There was no, there was no trying to get someone mentally to another place. Like, there was no, like, oh, I think it. I think it.

a couple weeks, his mom's coming to town. I'm going to see if he introduces me. Like, there was none of that. It was like, we were also older. I was 30, we were 37. And it was just like, we like the same stuff. We enjoy each other. We have our own lives as well. And it was, and so now love is like, I really, it's like such a support system. And, yeah, like, it's just so, it's so different. But it did. It just made me laugh at all the relationships I thought I had been in. That really resonates with me. Yeah, me too.

The part about the pee, too. If you ever want to leave Domino, just... Just pee. No paperwork. Just... Pea on the porch. It's the best way to break up with someone. In expecting Amy, there was this, like, interesting moment.

You were talking with your husband, and you were saying that part of how you show affection and how you show love is to tease people. And that sometimes that can cause like tension. Not only are you teasing him, you're teasing him very, very publicly. Right. I really related to that. I grew up with a family that made fun of each other constantly. And then I married someone who was not like that. He cannot handle it. And everybody in my family knows, like, he can't handle it. And we just have to sort of work around that. And I'm wondering, what was your family like growing up? Like, was. that was humor? What role did it play?

It, um, I really, I feel that. And it's tough. It's something to adjust to. Like, when I found stand-up comedy and other comedians, it really felt like it was like the end of the lamb before time. Like, they found the green place. Like, we were all just like, you like to say really mean things to each other too, you know? And Chris has definitely gotten used to it, like just even in our, in our own home life. But growing up, but growing up, Growing up, like, definitely even within my own households, there would be a family member who really didn't enjoy that. And I have trouble. I put my foot in my mouth all the time, like the other day.

I was on a Zoom with some of the editors and producers of my TV show. And this one producer, who I've worked with, you know, for 10 years, he comes on the Zoom late. And just his background, I was like, oh, my God, your background is so gloomy. Like, it looks so sad. It's so dark. I couldn't stop. I'm like, he's like, okay, thanks, Amy. I'm like, no, it looks like you're, the setting is black and white.

You know, he's like, that's my home, Amy. This is my home. And I kind of couldn't stop. You know, and then I thought, do I try to make up for this? But no, he knows me well enough to know that, like, I just had to go a little harder just to show him the respect of, like, not feeling bad. And that's the thing. It's like when something bad happens, I just want to be around comedians and

trashing each other so like i mean i think this it's almost a stereotype even though it's true that people but especially comedians use comedy as like a i don't want to say just a defense mechanism because i think that's reductive but yeah but i think it's true right right so do you feel like in your family it was because i feel like there's two sort of scenarios for instance sophie just described something it sounds like humor is used it's kind of like the language they all speaking and it sounds like maybe for you it was not so much the language that all your family was speaking it was more like I'm I'm this is this is the tool that I feel like I need yeah to survive maybe not necessarily in the home but out in out everywhere it was I would say defense mechanism

it was early and important and and essential actually and I was I'm the middle child just keeping everybody laughing and feeling like we're going to be okay. And I think sometimes people talk about humor being used as a defense mechanism in like a negative way. But to me, it feels like a tool like any other. Or maybe in some ways better than, I mean, if it's used well, I think it can be better than any other, you know? Yeah. It can diffuse.

Right. Better than like doing meth or something. A little. No offense to the math users. No offense. Definitely do not want to judge. I know you guys are sponsored by math, so. I don't want to...

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You know, on like a one to ten. And I don't mean in the sense of vanity, I mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick. When you have responsibilities, I know myself, I'm a householder. I have two children and two more on the way, a spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down. down some other way physically, you know?

My family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so honestly, I turned to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with.

The three that I use, I use the, what is it called, the liposomal vitamin C, and it tastes delicious like really really good comes out in the packet you put it right in your mouth some people don't do that i do it i think it tastes great i use the liposomal uh glutathione as well in the morning um really good for gut health and although i don't need it you know anti-aging um and then i also use the magnesium l3 and eight which is really good for for i think mood and stress i sometimes use it in the morning sometimes use it at night all three of these things taste incredible, honestly. You don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend

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so so this way that we know each other is is through my wife domino who helped you in labor and prenatally and yeah it's deep it is yeah it is and i mean i learned so much and i'm always learning actually through her and what she does she'll say things about what a person often goes through like mentally psychologically emotionally how tied it is to physiology in this profound way and the things things that you might find you're addressing in life to sort of not that you can tie it up neatly and then the baby's born great but i don't know i mean did you find it to be a really reflective time i was so sick like i was so sick the whole time um yeah i was violently ill my entire pregnancy it was so dark i was just like hospitalized all the time could not stop

vomiting. And I was just fully dependent on Chris in a way I had never been before because so my condition hyper-emesis, the statistics on it are really crushing. Like one in three babies doesn't make it. Really? Gosh. Yeah, one in three. Fifty, the stats are crazy. Fifty percent of marriages break up during it. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And same for women losing their jobs. Like, the only reason I was able to like function at all is because, because it was like I, because of my privilege. Like, I could get IVs and I could get, I was doing stand-up. So I was like, I really just had to work for an hour a night.

So really it's like you got to get to the show. There's a lot more that goes into it. But I don't remember my reflections at that time. But I did write the show that I sold and that is on Hulu. I wrote that while I was pregnant. Oh, interesting. Okay, so that's kind of what I was wondering, if you were somehow linking that time of life during pregnancy.

So I guess I did, yeah. So, I mean, I must have because that's when I wrote the pilot anyway. But really more it's been now, you know, he's two. He's two in change. And I'm like, it makes me think about my own mom. Yeah. I've been 11-month-old. I know.

And I just like, I stick my nose in his neck all the time. Exactly. Sweet little sweat. It's just like, oh, he's so sweet. Wow, parents. But I can't help it. I'm thinking, how long am I going to be allowed to do this? You know, some people have said, they're like, having a son is like going through the longest

breakup of your life. Oh, my God. I'm like throwing up about it. But it makes it, you know, my, when I'm with my mom and she'll, like, touch me or whatever and I'm like get out of you know it's like you're it's weird now I just so sympathize I'm like okay I'll let I'll hug her a little longer I'm like I get it that's yeah I actually you know Domino and I are due to have a conversation because we were gonna work together longer um after I had gene uh and I kind of suddenly was like I'm good and I don't need a postpartum dula anymore and I

like we keep being like we need to talk about it that that she was pregnant just and I don't know what she thought I was going to say, but the truth was, and this is pretty unfair to her, after I had Jean, and I was recovering from, you know, C-section, whatever, having, Domino is, like, a goddess. Like, she's an actual, like, floating, like, siren around the house. And I was just, like, and she's so, like, just lovely. And when she touches you, like, you just kind of melt. And she was, like, really a family member. And I just was, like, I just felt so vulnerable. that I was like, I can't have this Botticelli fucking goddess floating around my home when I am like bleeding out.

And I just didn't have the strength to allow myself the luxury of having her around her home. I was like, I think you can't come anymore. That's fair. I mean, the great thing about having a child with a doula, is that there's so much that at least your partner is not learning for the first time. Yeah, even things like, they're like, okay, now you wash the baby and you're like, what now? Like, how do you do that?

Do you just kind of just dump water? Like, yeah, just not everything. Yeah, kind of like a Navy seal, just kind of toss them in a pool, see what happens. I have seen like these videos on the old Instagram of like, I think six months. old, like really young babies being thrown up. Yeah. Into, have you, you've seen this? I've seen that. Yeah, yeah.

Thrown into deep pools. It's like they hold the baby and they're like, yeah, it's okay. Can you get it? Uh-huh. Yeah. And then they just literally throw them. Throw them in the deep end. And then there's somebody.

Your face. What the fucking is it? And apparently, like, it's, this is, you know, how many methods are there now for different, how many philosophies are there parenting? A million. What is this for? They teach them how to swim. It's a teaching to swim.

That's insane. I guess I'll try that. Yeah. My experience, and I think probably the experience of other people, too, is that I knew you as a comedian. But then expecting Amy is this, like, really intimate look into your life. It's like a vlog. It's like an extended vlog and documentary, you know. And I feel like I saw just like a totally different side of you, like a tenderness and a sweetness.

that was obviously always a part of you, but... It's just not there in anything else you do. No, no. But you said this thing at the end that just, I mean, I cry pretty much at anything. So it's not that much of a feat, but this really just like got me. Where at the end you say, you're like looking at him. And we've just seen you go through this like harrowing experience of pregnancy. And you're like, I would do so much more to meet him.

And I was like, oh my God. That time, like, just, I mean, you're still in it, Penn, I'm sure, like, just that time when they're just like these little babies, you're just such an open wound. Like, you can't believe how vulnerable you are. It's like, you're like, you just feel like, am I dying? Because, like, I just feel, I feel like all my organs are out of my body. But, yeah, and, you know, it was so annoying because the whole time everybody's telling you how it's going to be worth it. And you're just like, shut the fuck up. I throw up all day. And then you're like, oh, my God, it's crazy. And they just keep getting

better and better and more and more fun. I'm not a parent, but I hope to be one day. Yeah. But I've been thinking a lot about the, obviously, like the state of the world. And this year, the pandemic has brought to light, I think, even more, a lot of the injustices that we're all grappling with. And as a like a mother and a recent mother in that time, I'm just wondering how you're feeling about the state of the world and Jean growing up and like what, what, you see for him in the future, what you're nervous about, how you're kind of navigating this time. It's so, like, just, I had him when Trump was president. You know, it's like, what kind of a psycho is bringing people into the world right now? It's grim. And, you know,

I feel, you know, in terms of racial injustice and climate change and stuff, I feel like I have a couple years before I need to know how to navigate those conversations. But it can feel really hopeless at times and I just kind of subscribe to like do your personal best to help and that's all you can do and I he's already

he's like a little hustler you know he's like has no he does not rest do you talk? Yeah he just says like a couple words and whatever he's he was like walking when he was eight months old like kind of like walking around

jumping on rocks but he he's you know just slowly saying words um but it's cool we can communicate oh yeah yeah no i mean isn't talking uh yet no he just every he can say everything with da you know yeah it's remarkable you know what yeah he just points and he reckon you know like you want a snack he's like yeah mama yeah you have a bit until you are having some of those conversations with them you know and then there's like there's a long time to have them and the way we model is really important too like you can't communicate everything to words even even when they can talk but like when you were this age you know 12ish are there a few memories that stand out for you of any of somebody

having that conversation with you or modeling something that you knew nobody else was modeling in terms of something that was really just really progressive really healthy because you know for me And I think anybody our age, like 30s, 40s, is going to, I think, probably remember how nobody was talking about this stuff when we were 12, I guess. There weren't a lot of people talking about it. Yeah. In my experience, they were like, the Holocaust happened, slavery happened, but now everything's cool. And for, you know, global warming, it was like, this is happening. But if you just recycle.

bring a if you recycle and if you bring a bag with you then then it's all good you know and I really and it was like okay and then I just kind of those three things I just kind of stored them in my mind as like things that have been taken care of but now when I look back at the town that I'm from I realized that it was like the rest of the country it was very much a white supremacist environment it was one of my best friends was black and I would go sleep at her house sometimes in the projects and you know when I was

working on my Hulu show they were like we don't want to set this character living in the projects we feel like that's too much of a stereotype I'm like that's how it was and these kids were treated like second and third class citizens because of their race

and we learned not from what the teachers were saying not from what the community was saying but from how they were acting. And if something was missing, they would check the black kids' backpacks, you know, like really overt, clear messaging. And the anti-Semitism, I'm Jewish, the anti-Semitism in my town was really bad. I know I'll raise my son to know what's really going on as best I understand it. Like, we live in an actual caste system and we need to do everything to try and undo that while we're alive. You know, it's really dark and really grim. And I can understand a parent not wanting

to share it. But I also don't think that my parents recognized it. I worked at an inner city school for a few years and the population was primarily Latino. That was where I was a vice principal. And before kids went to the bathroom, they would make them empty their pockets to make sure they didn't have like markers to graffiti the walls. And I mean, like every behavior was codified. And I felt like the message that the school was constantly sending the kids and that I was as vice principal was that they weren't trustworthy. Right. You're a criminal. Exactly. I mean, it was exactly shooting them. And if you tell them that, they'll believe you. Right.

Yeah. And I would go home, like, feeling sick to my stomach. Like, I'm enforcing something that's so patronizing and, like, racist. And I met with the head of HR and I asked him if this school were full of white kids, would we empty their pockets? And his, like, jaw dropped. And he said, no, we probably wouldn't. But, like, nothing changed, you know. And I ended up leaving that school because I just couldn't, like, stomach that, that situation. It's just, the thing is it's like, you know, we were so focused on murders by law enforcement this year, which is a symptom of the way bigger picture of what the problem is. And that doesn't mean we shouldn't give a lot of our attention to that problem. But it's like you've got to start from the absolute roots of the problem. Like, you know, this is how we've, you know, all been raised and have come to accept things. Like, we need to undo all of it, you know? Yeah. And I think middle schoolers in particular are quite altruistic and sweet.

And they're starting to see the many problems that we have in society, the systemic problems. And they're like, what can we do about it? Like, how can we change this? And that we kind of like stamp that out of them. And people don't think of kids that way, of middle schoolers that way. I think there's like a common view of that time of life of like they're going through so many changes, which they are, but like let them go through it and then we'll, we'll handle them when they've settled down. When they've indoctrinated them into the wrong way of doing things, then they can help us. Right. But I feel like it's such an impressionable time and there's really an opportunity to like encourage that natural altruism and like desire to serve.

We should be looking to them to help guide us. Like that's totally how I feel. I feel really encouraged by. these kids, you know, like the Parkland kids, you know, Greta and all these like, I'm like, teach me. You know, even the Me Too movement, I was like, I had a joke about it in my stand-up where it was like for my whole life, it's just been like, this is how men will treat you, how women are addressed, whatever. And it was like, that sucks, huh? Right, guys? And then this generation was like, why don't we do something about it? And I was like, oh, yeah, you know? Like, and it's like, Yeah, let's stop it. It's like, oh, right. So, yeah, these systems that have been in place so long, I just feel like I'm completely learning, which is a lot of pressure. And I feel bad that

we didn't solve anything for them, like truly anything. But, yeah, and I think you're right. At this age, it's like, you really want to make a difference. And in like these moments I can remember where I went out of my way to help someone like that. I felt really deep, deep empathy, you know, radical empathy for these people. And you get kind of shut down in every regard at that age, you know, and you have some options of, there was this one great monologue Connie Britton had on, what's it called? Friday Nightly. Yeah, I was going to say Barcy Blues. Shea. What if I was like, no, White Lotus? Yeah. Um, she, she was talking to her daughter because her daughter was kind of like

toying with the idea of losing her virginity, um, to someone that she wasn't in, uh, committed relationship with. And she was just like, don't do that. Like, don't, because you can have sex this young age. You can do these things and it will harden you. And it will, you know, like, it's hard to not let these things. Like, I remember in, in, in high school, I was like, at that age, like 13, when you start having your first kiss, whatever, all these kind of things, it was very much like, like, girls are easily slut shamed. So you got to be really careful not to be considered a slut. And even then, even if you don't do anything, people can still lie about you. And, you know, like, you have such little control over the sort of PR of your

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Amy, I wanted to say, just going back to your Me Too comment, I was very sincere at the beginning when I said that I am like such a huge fan. If you couldn't, if you're not just saying it. I really am. Thank you, Nava. Thank you. And part of why is you were the first public figure that I remember. I'm not saying you were the first one ever, but the one that I remember that was kind of outspoken about like gender issues, like even body image and double standards. I felt like inside Amy Schumer was really subversive.

I loved that you, I loved the Friday night lights. I mean, there were so many, but that one's like such a standout. And so I just want to say that for me, you were like a trailblazer even before the Me Too movement in advancing gender quality. Like you stood out to me for that. And I was just wondering what your, like, what issues you're really passionate about and how you plan on kind of continuing to use your artistry to support

those. Because it did make an impact. Like I noticed. Well, thanks for saying that. That's amazing. That's really cool to hear. And I am so proud of that sketch. If you haven't seen it, we are parodying the show Friday Night Lights

and there's a new coach in town who's played by Josh Charles and his kind of out of the box thinking is making the town nervous and his thinking is don't rape. It's like full eyes, clear my, and don't rape. And the guys are all like, Coach, this will never work.

You know, he's like, what if they're dressed up as like a sexy cat? Or, you know, they're in the locker room trying to find all these loopholes. Can I just say my favorite part is when the old lady stops by the house and she's like, you're the new coach that doesn't let the boys rape and, like, spit them on the lawn. That's so good. Oh, my God. I am so proud of that. There's so many sketches on that show. I mean, we really, like, it's such an opportunity to, well, like, for me, the way it started out was I, at that age, at 13, in class, I would feel like Jake Tapper's daughter, Alice Tapper wrote this book called Raise Your Hand. She's, I think she's, well, she was 12 when she wrote it. It was just that the girls in class didn't, don't raise their hands. I think that you interviewed her right on your podcast. I did. Oh, my God.

Okay, now that you're scaring me. Now that you're scaring me. But that was me. I felt like the girls were supposed to like try and be pretty and quiet. And so I just like rejected that at that age. And so that definitely, you know, rolls over the TV show. Like it just feels so revolutionary sometimes to see a woman just acting like a full person, you know? Just, yeah, it's so funny. Like just the way that that we're thought of is still just like I was going to do this movie. and the producers, like, as a welcome to the project, sent me a pair of Manolo Blonix. And I was like, what? You don't have to say anymore.

It's funny. I don't get it. Do you know what those are? Yeah, no. But, I mean, I can imagine Amy would love those. Why would I want stilettos? Like, why, you know, I mean, heels are over to me. That's so true.

Yeah, I haven't even thought about that. They really are. Canceled. Cancel heels. Cancel heels. It's like when I still see so, like a woman wearing like heels, I'm like, oh, God. You know, like. So on the show, you know, we would have like a little afterthought of like there's this one scene.

I don't remember what it was called, but it was like you sort of see what the guy you're talking to needs you to be. And you do that. And then at the end, like one of the writers on the show. Grace, a black woman, came on camera and was like, and what everyone needed from her was like she exploded because it was so crazy, like what, you know. So my sort of eye opening, it's like I was thinking of feminism as like fighting for all women's rights, but I didn't understand that, well, first we need to really fight for the people who have had it the worst for the longest. And so, you know, yeah, so really my focus is like on that and kind of.

kind of exposing the, yeah, just like women not being treated as equal has always just been like, you know, such a major focus for me. And then all these other issues have come to light. It just makes you, you can just feel so discouraged. It's tough. It's tough. You know, there's something you said about, how did you put it, like girls, once they're, as they're being inducted into womanhood, it seems like, you know, becoming aware of these intense critical like triple quadruple standards not even i feel like a double standard it's really that's what i felt like you were describing of course i was imagining like a balance beam like you know wanting to explore but not wanting to be shamed and all of this stuff and i was and i was

remembering for you know for a boy my perception was that you know if i wasn't having like numerous escapades or conquests or you know if i if if if i wasn't like really getting on that train and learning how to what i would now call womanize or something much worse like it it was to me i it was not at all my natural behavior and i was never able to really perpetrate it and it took me until i was in my 20s to actually start to accept that which is kind of criminal i mean it's like and and then there's other you know boys who actually too grow up and become criminals because it's so it's so intense and pervasive and i think the amazing thing about it is that is that i think you don't even really have to be told to act that way i mean you don't have to be explicitly told this is what you

should and shouldn't do you like learn these lessons like a fish and water you know so so you learn them so as though they're being taught as though there's literally just a checklist yeah you know do this do that don't do this do that do that do that And I don't know. And then there's something else you said about the PR of And then I mean, now literally with social media like that's all too literal. It's not just an analogy. Which, you know, I don't know. I mean, is there anything new to say about social media? I'm not sure. But it's just... I really appreciate that perspective because I think something that I do forget, you know, we think we talk about toxic masculinity and toppling the patriarchy. And it's like, it's like men are more.

are the victims of this. It's dehumanizing to everybody. It's totally. There's this amazing documentary called The Mask We Live in. I've heard of that. Oh, it's so good. I learned so much from it. But it is like putting all this pressure for men to be this one way.

And everybody suffers in the end, you know? And can become criminals or just hurt a lot of people. And that that's not like their natural instinct. Totally, yeah. it's so far from it i mean actually if i can like i happen to be very sensitive and yeah i never did it was painful for me it was very yeah i recall the and this is not an overstatement the times that i was closest to finally forcing myself or being able to act in that way was when i was at my absolute saddest at my absolute lowest my furthest from myself yeah but somehow

i think because i could see it somehow because i felt it and it was so i mean i was an only child so I didn't have I had a lot of just like solitude so maybe that in the end helped me like just a lot of I don't know reflection I'm not sure what but yeah I just think about that a lot with young boys and young girls like how to because you also I don't know I'm not sure maybe you can but I don't think you can just like say all this to them and then suddenly poof you know no because you're right it's not it's not things that are explicitly said to you it's the it's the behavior yeah you just know, oh, okay, if I were to say, I really like this one girl or this one guy, you will be like brutalized for that. That's not cool. That's not how you're supposed to be. It's like,

I don't know. And I'm really nervous about raising a son and how to go about all of that. I'm so sensitive already. He is like, he is straight. I can tell you that my two-year-olds, he falls in love with a couple times he just a woman comes over and just like he just can't believe

it wants to show her everything he can do and I feel like oh my God I don't want her to be uncomfortable like I'm thinking about

I'm like if he's making you uncomfortable you know and they're like he's too and I'm like still I'm so I know

I'm already so nervous about it. I really don't. I have no idea how I'm in it. But, you know, I just ordered a book called Raising a Good Boyer, so how to raise a boy. So I'm hoping all the answers are in there. I do have one thought on this. And I've actually shared this with Penn, but something I noticed when I was teaching in an administrative position is that boys, I can't make like a universal claim, but from what I observed, boys in middle school and elementary school seemed more sensitive than girls. Like, the girls seemed a little bit tougher. And the boys would cry a lot more. they were more emotional and like they really cared like what you said about them and kind of

needed a lot of validation and then in like ninth grade it switched like it just flipped and the boys would stop crying and I don't know if that's like a hormonal thing or they've just like internalized all the messages about what it means to do I think it's the latter I do I think internalized don't you I mean yeah that's what I assume thinking about what it takes to have give birth and all that stuff I'm like it can't compare it all to being a man no hard I was like, oh, God, Penn just interrupted Amy. I hope he's about to say something really important. You have no idea.

It is so funny because all the phrasing, all the sayings, you're being a pussy, stop being a little bitch, you're acting like a little girl, all this stuff. And I'm like, now I've started saying like you're being a guy. Like stop being such a guy because like all the women I know are so tough. and the women are being like telling the guys to man up like even that everything don't skirt around the issue just all these phrases it's endless there's nothing there's nothing else to say you can't say you're being a pussy like what what can you say you say you know that doesn't make it feminine to be that way it feels like the antidote to a lot of what we're talking about is in a word Maybe this is friendship. It's like meaningful relationships.

Nava, you share, or maybe Sophie, one of you shared recently this statistic that men actually take breakups a lot harder. Yeah, they're more likely to commit suicide after a breakup because... And they take longer to recover? Because they don't have other intimate friends. So when they lose a girlfriend, they've lost their, like, all of their outlet for intimacy. Yeah. Yeah. I have six friends. I can call and say, like, what a fucking asshole somebody who was.

Yeah. That's so sad. That's really brutal. Amy, we have a question we ask every guest we've had so far, which is if you could go back to young Amy and give her any advice or share anything with her, what would it be? Honestly, I'd be like, look, bangs are not working out for you. I'd give her some bobby pins, and I'd say let it grow out,

and you did your best to have bangs, but it wasn't God's plan. Yeah. things have worked out for me at this point. You know, I'm 40 and I'm happy, which is incredible. You know, of course, I'm also hanging on by a thread. But so I think probably nothing because I had to just like go through all of it. And the outcome is what it is. Yeah. But when I do, when I read this journal, when I, you know, when I was mining for this TV show, it just feels like a different person. And I just like, I feel really bad for this. that girl. I want to like pick her up and be like, you can trust me. Yeah.

And then throw her in a fucking deep end of a pool. That's what I want to do. Thank you so much for coming. Seriously. Thanks so much for having me. I was freaking out for three days prior to the interview. This is a true story. I couldn't sleep for three days because I was so excited to me, Amy, and so nervous. And, you know, I just didn't know what to expect.

And she was so sweet. And she introduced us to her baby at the end. She was so generous. It took a long time to set the interview up. And she still didn't cut it short. I will say because of Navas fear and sweaty palms, I actually became very nervous. I think we should note that Amy was also sick for this. episode, and so the fact that she was so sweet, so funny, and kind with us, really says

something. I just absolutely loved her. Before we go, we leave you with this week's submitted story, a little breakup gem we've titled Basketball Diary. In 2017, at the ripe old age of 13, I started dating a kid in my class, we'll call Felix. Felix and I, we DM'd all the time, but when we saw each other at school, we acted like we'd never met, maybe a furtive glance here and there, but never a conversation. So, like I said, we were very much dating.

One day, I'd had enough. I needed more than instant messaging and stolen glances. Sure, Felix texted me that he loved me. We'd been exclusive for a month, maybe, but how could words on a screen ever compare to a whisper? in my ear, a caress on my cheek. Sorry, where was I? Oh, yeah, yes. Lo and behold, one fateful lunch break,

a mutual friend of ours approached and told me that Felix wanted to speak to me. This was it. Text was finally going to translate into tangible romance. I was so excited. I was Elizabeth anticipating the touch of Mr. Darcy. so recess rolls around and there I am waiting on the bench just as I'd been carefully instructed to do would he bring me flowers had he bought me chocolate was he going to tell me that he loved

whoa whoa I don't know if I'm ready for this so I turned around and saw that Felix was shooting hoops on the basketball court as Mr. Darcy often does he kept looking quickly in my direction. Every time his eyes landed on mine, I'd wave sweetly, and he'd look away. And he kept glancing. I kept waving, wondering why he wouldn't come talk to me. Finally, Felix put the ball down and started to run my way. We're talking full speed, child marathoner running, dropped a note in my lap, and then sprinted away. twice as fast. So I excitedly open a note, expecting to see professions of love on the page, maybe a date request.

Instead, there was a drawing of a person crying and some completely unintelligible text. I couldn't read a single word of it because of how shit his handwriting was. So I ran over to the basketball court in front of everybody and demanded that Felix, tell me what the note meant. Felix looked at all his friends. and they were all laughing. At me? Finally, he spoke. Oh, oh, I'm breaking up with you.

Sorry. The court went silent. Everyone wanted to know what I'd say back. My heart, thereupon unable to break, began to race. I was sweating. I needed to get out of there, so I turned and I launched into a full sprint, only I didn't make it very far. a split in the concrete caught my foot

and with the eyes of the playground upon me I tripped and I fell I spent the rest of the day the rest of the day hiding in the bathroom licking my wounds but I couldn't hide forever and for the next two weeks

everyone made fun of me for the one-two punch of getting dumped and falling flat on my face just seconds later It's three years on. I still haven't quite lived it down. Podfreshed is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navakavalent, and Sophie Ansari. Our executive producer is Nora Richie from Stitcher. Our lead producer and editor is David Ansari.

Our secondary editor is Sharaf and Tristle. Special thanks to Peter Clowney, VP of Content at Stitcher, Eric Eddings, Director of Lifestyle Programming at Stitcher, Jared O'Connell and Brendan Brines for the tech support, and Shruti Marante who transcribes our tape. Podcrush was created by Navakavalin and is executive produced by Penn Badgley and Navakavalin and produced by Sophie Ansari. This podcast is a 9th mode production.

Be sure to subscribe to Podcrush. You can find us on Stitcher, the Serious XM app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. If you'd like to submit a middle school story, go to podcrush.com and give us every detail. And while you're online, be sure to follow us on socials, or we're telling everyone that your mom still walks you to the bus stop. You don't want that. It's at Pod Crush, spelled how it sounds, and our personals are at Pem Badgley, at Nava, that's Nava with three ends, and at Scribble by Sophie. And we're out. See you next week.

I'm going to leave. But it's all recording. Great. Thank you. Bye, thank you. Bye, thank you. Thank you. What a bitch, right?

Stitcher. Thank you. Thank you.