Podcrushed - Antoni Porowski

Episode Date: February 26, 2025

Antoni Porowski -- the esteemed chef and reality host from Queer Eye, Easy Bake Battle, and now No Taste Like Home -- tells the story of his craziest babysitter (aptly nicknamed "Crazy Debbie"), growing up as the Polish kid in decidedly un-Polish West Virginia, and the fortuitous twists and turns that led to his casting on Netflix's smash reality show Queer Eye.    Follow Podcrushed on socials: Instagram TikTok XSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada I called her crazy Debbie because I had like three Debbie's in my life and she worked at my dad's hospital and she was always getting into trouble and my dad had her watch me once and I drove a car for the first time I think I was 13 years old

her Honda Prelude to Costco and I bought my first DVD ever any given Sunday where his eyeball falls out which is crazy that I just remember that And she had a weed plant in the back seat. And then she got me a bottle of absolute manned. I can't, I just unlocked something. Yeah, she was awesome.

To be clear, to be clear, yeah, she sounds like awesome Debbie, by the way. It was amazing. Yeah, we should change her name actually. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Sophie. And I'm Nava.

And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Blasting the Goo Goo Goo Dolls and watching ourselves cry in the mirror. I just want you to know who I'm I am. Right? Perfect. Welcome to Pod Crushed. My two co-hosts are looking very partisan today.

We're wearing red and blue. You know, actually, yeah. Now that I, the last few episodes have been on the same wavelength, like both in a great cardigan, both in striped shirts, and today we are divided. I'm representing the chiefs for the last. Oh, sad. Well, you should be in a sparkly. I thought that those clips

of Travis Kelsey and his sparkly top walking out so sad I've not I've not seen that he was wearing what like a sequin thing it was like a matching set of like sparkly it was something he thought he was going to win in it sounds like there are a few

funny I mean I do feel badly but there are very funny videos going around of men in sparkly tops like I think he could have packed a backup outfit I love that Speaking of a sparkly top I think he'd like that I think we'll have to just print it and go and see

Our guest today is none other than Anthony Parovsky He's Emmy winning New York time Best Selling chef Who is most famously From Netflix's Queer Eye He's on today

uh he's got a new show called no taste like home uh which follows anthony as he guides a cast of a list celebrities you know they didn't call me which i'm not sure who's more disappointed um but he takes his celebrity friends or acquaintances on an epic journey to explore their own personal histories through their ancestors food traditions techniques and and experiences culinary experiences it's actually it's very cool it seems very highbrow and very interesting it was a real joy having him on the pod today you're going to love this episode please stick around does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored and do you also feel like super guilty about it well one way that i combat that feeling is i'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy louis

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And their recipes are crafted by vet nutritionists. So I feel good knowing its design with Louis' health and happiness in mind. Serve nom nom nom as a complete and balanced meal or is a tasty and healthy addition to your dog's current diet. My dogs are like my children, literally, which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best. Hold on. Let me start again because I've only been talking about Louie. Louie is my bait. Louis, you might have heard him growl just now. Louis is my little baby, and I'm committed to only giving him the best.

I love that Nom Nom's recipes contain wholesome nutrient rich food, meat that looks like meat, and veggies that look like veggies, because shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it, and he cannot get enough. So he's a lamb pilaf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with NomNum, available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed, spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. Why do we do what we do? What makes life meaningful?

My name is Elise Loonen, and I'm the author of On Our Best Behavior and the host of the podcast, Pulling the Thread. I'm pulling the thread, I explore life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand and ourselves, others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to pulling the thread from Lemonada Media wherever you get your podcasts. So we do usually start at 12. But because you have a show coming out that has this really lovely unique premise, rather than saying, who were you at 12?

We'll get there. We'll get there. What did home taste like at 12? Okay, we're getting poetic from the get-go. All right. What did home taste like? The food that we ate growing up was dictated by my parents' trips. So we traveled a lot as well as a family,

but they took a lot of trips together, either with like a group of friends or just as a couple. And so, like, they went to, they were in Morocco and went to like Charmel Sheikhs. My dad is like a big windsurfer. And when they got back from Morocco, like, We ate tijin for a month. Wow.

When my mother would go to Poland for a month to visit her mother, she would come back with like these little yogurts and this like smoke cheese that you get from like the mountains. And so we would just be eating a shit ton of Polish food for a few weeks. So it was really dictated by that. And I think sort of like the diversity of like the diversity exposure to food was I was exposed to at a really young age. Except I was an extremely picky eater.

like I hated tomatoes. There were so many things that I wouldn't eat, but then I had weird things that most kids didn't like that I really enjoyed. So it was sort of really all over the place because it was in Canada and we have nine months a winter and like six feet of snow. There was a shocking amount of like stews and soups

and just stuff to put meat on your bones. Yeah. So when you say like your parents went to Morocco and then you were eating Tajin for a month, that sounds not that hard to imagine now, but I'm thinking of you, you and I are the same age. So you were born in 84. So I'm thinking of that is like in 1996, there's not YouTube.

Like, how are your parents figuring out even how to make it to Jean? Like, how is that possible? You know what? That's a really good question. My mother was an excellent home cook. She really had instinct. And when we would be at a restaurant, she would try something and she would be able to kind of like take apart all of the different elements. I have a little bit of that.

I'm not as good. But then she would like come home and like figure out how to make it. it healthier or easier or whatever like i have yeah i just got this random memory of this like halibut that we had with like a pistachio crust in north carolina again all my dad went windsurfing big windsurfer yeah and we like came back and then she was like figuring out how to like roast it so that the temp would be good for like the fish to be fully cooked but the crab and the pistachio mix wouldn't like be overdone so she kind of like it was all very instinctual and she kind of she treated cooking the way i do as like painting is like you're kind of like figuring it out a little bit as you go you kind of

kind of have a plan. And that's how I approach it now. Like, if I'm, if I'm making something that I've never made before, I'm going to go read a couple of blogs, like maybe get on Reddit, even though I try to avoid that thing as much as I possibly can. And then I just like let it go. And I'm like, okay, like, what am I retaining? What are the main rules that I need to know? And I kind of go with it. So I think that's how she operated, kind of. It was all very, yeah, it was like all in her brain. I feel like cooking Reddit might be the safest part of Reddit. Is that not true yeah yeah i made the mistake once of looking up my name when someone's only the people oh no no no no no no no that was a double therapy session yeah that were happening again you live

you learn you know yeah so so you know you do have this interesting kind of upbringing where you know you were moving a lot you've you're sort of a self-professed nomad by the way i can relate very much but for very different reasons or i i think they might be different reasons what what what was it that contributed to your family moving so much for those who don't know? Yeah. So when I was raised in Montreal and then right when I, do you graduate elementary school? Yeah, you technically graduated. Sure, sure.

You did. You did. Yeah, yeah. And then my father moved to West Virginia. He was a physician. And when you move to the U.S. before you get board certification, you have to work in certain states. and he chose West Virginia because it was a lot of golfing and whitewater rafting and a lot of Canadian expats were there. And so both my sisters stayed in Montreal. I moved with my parents.

I was there for junior high, so 7, 8, 9. And then my parents split up. So for grade 10, I went back to Canada. And then they got back together. So for grade 11, I went back to West Virginia. Oh, my gosh. And then I kind of had enough of being there. And I don't forget the reasons exactly, but they sent me back to Montreal. I know why, because there's one year or less of high school and you start this thing called Sejup, which is like a pre-college. So I move back so that I can kind of be caught up

with everyone that was my age. Because if I would have stayed another year, I would have lost a year and I would have been behind. So the weird thing is, even though I have a university degree, I don't have a high school diploma. I never graduated from high school. Anthony, you're talking,

like even when you were describing your parents' trips, like them going to Morocco and coming back and you having Tejin and then this picture that you're painting of like your, your sister's staying back in Montreal and then you going back and forth, the only thing I'm wondering is like, who was taking care of who at what time? Like, did you have, it sounds like you would have had to have like extended family around or like more like your parents had to have had a village of some sort. Like who, who is in your community? You would think. I was like when I kind

of look back, I was alone a lot. And at the time, I thought it was the greatest thing. in the world because I was like the immigrant kid with the weird name who brought the weird lunches who lived in West Virginia whose parents were traveling a lot and my mother was in between Canada and the U.S. taking care of my sisters in both houses and my father worked a lot like 12, 14 hour shift and so I was the one always having like house parties and I lived in this like gated community where I kind of had like my my friends that we always really hung out with so it was kind of like a safe space where we could get into a lot of trouble without any consequences because there weren't any cops it was like security people um and this was like

it was a fancy place but in west virginia it's sort of there there really was no um not like a representation of like a middle class it was either there were a lot of like mobile homes trailer parks that sort of thing or you lived in a gated community it was really like the extremes um so yeah you would think that i would have uh someone watching over me but no although wow i just remembered it's fine you know what she's i called her crazy debby because i had like three debby's in my life and she worked at my dad's hospital and she was always getting into trouble for for like just being mischievous at work and my dad had her watch me once when he was he was gone for like three days and my mother was gone and i drove a car for the first time i think i was 13 years old her

Honda Prelude to Costco and I bought my first DVD ever any given Sunday where his eyeball falls out which is crazy that I just remember that and she had a weed plant in the back seat and then she got me a bottle of a weed plant I can't I just unlock something to be clear to be clear yeah she sounds like awesome Debbie by the way amazing yeah we should change her name actually yeah I don't she wasn't like intoxicated when she was with me she like really had her shit together but she was definitely like she had a lot of like side hustles and like stuff going on and the weed plant had a name I forgot what it was exactly but she literally got me like a 26 ounce of absolute mandarin which like when you're a very young teenager is delicious with orange juice and granadine

and I just had like a little house party that weekend and she's like tell your dad I was here the whole weekend I was like I want you to come back all the time oh my gosh I haven't thought about this in at least 20 years now when I look back and and in therapy and in conversations that I have with my friends, I realized, like, wow, I was like a really lonely. I was like, I was alone a lot. But I don't know if I felt that lonely. Like, I kept myself busy. I swam a lot every single day for two hours.

And then tennis. And like, I just, I was always doing something. So I never, I didn't like being at the house alone because it just felt, it was just very echoy and just like quiet and there was no soul there. And growing up, I had two older sisters and we lived in like a very loud, chaotic household. So I was either.

having friends over or I was like at someone's house because you could just bike over and like walk into someone's house without even calling them. It was that kind of a vibe. Yeah, right, right, right. So wait, I want to go back to the first question we would have asked you. Who was Anthony at 12, 13 sort of transitioning from Montreal to West Virginia? I was super excited to move to the US because I was obsessed with anything that was Americana from Gap to the introduction. of Abercrombie and Fitch and these like overpriced $90 cargo pants that I convinced my parents

to get me like I just wanted to feel like an American kid and just fully fit in and I thought it was like the greatest thing ever and I remember like going to school and it was my first a lot of people in like the LGBTQI plus sorry we're only allowed to say LBG these days um

like experience this other than this where they don't feel like they necessarily fit in. And I never felt that on that front, I think because of my sexuality and fluidity or whatever, but I felt like, oh, my name is different. The food that I'm bringing here is different. I had my teacher in the seventh grade come up to me. I remember, like, the first week, and she was like,

I heard a rumor that you speak three languages. Is that true? And I was like, well, yeah, like, my parents were Polish, so that was my first language. And then French I learned in school and English I learned from, like, my sisters in Sesame Street. and her question to that was why and it wasn't like she was trying to

to insult me or demean me or bring me down in any way but she just didn't understand and that's when I sort of realized like oh we don't I really have as much diversity here slash at all and so that was kind of this sort of like oh like I'm different I'm definitely a little weird and then people would make comments about my name

it was Antek at the time it was like my Polish slang name and then Perowski was just like mind-blowing to them they just didn't know what to do with it um so i think i kind of i wanted to fit in desperately so it totally makes sense that i would have house parties but i was like it was very sort of like the public sphere of me was the party kid who had everyone over at his house and would like cause a mess and fill up like the alcohol bottles with water afterwards and then the private sphere side of me was sort of i think just kind of like sat and trying to figure myself out and just desperately trying to fit in Yeah, I was going to say doing and doing research and watching interviews you and then, of course, years of watching you on Queer Eye, like you have this very effervescent energy about you.

Like, you're very enthusiastic and bubbly. But then I heard you say in another interview that you have, you feel you have this severe social anxiety. And I was, you know, of course, both can be true. and I was wondering at 12, what were you like? Was that, did that effervescent energy sort of develop as a mask for the social anxiety? Were you feeling that at the time? I think it was definitely a coping mechanism. I love to make people laugh.

And I was able to really turn it on when I was younger. I have less energy and patience for that at the right old age of 40 now but I really knew how to like turn it on and even when I was going back all the way to like five years old my parents would have friends over and I would dance to like George Michael's faith and like pause when the song would pause

and like I was like an entertainer I wanted to be seen it's like classic youngest child syndrome and so yeah like I remember definitely having I was always trying to like avoid I learned to avoid pain from a really young age. Like when I was alone at home, it was like, okay, like, what am I going to do to get out? I'm going to go to my friend Lawrence house because I know they're having dinner at like six

and her mom always makes like bomb-ass food. Or I'll go see the Kellys and like we're going to go bike around forever and like go hit the trails or whatever and see if we find snakes. So it was I learned to kind of to not deal and process my feelings when I was like 12, 13. I think that's kind of when it started. That is now what every 12 and 13 year old is doing with a phone. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah, we didn't even have that, which is wild.

I know. Biking around and looking for snakes sounds so much more. It's pretty healthy. Right? I mean, yeah. I mean, it's healthier than ordering 10 bars of Dubai chocolate on the TikTok shop. Oh, my God. I actually, but it's 50% off today. I just did that.

Wait, I just did that. I just ordered eight, but I served it at a party and everybody loved it. So I feel like that's okay. Okay. I just ordered the beef tallow that you put on your face with Minooka honey. I'll let you know how that goes. Okay. Let us know how that goes.

turns out it's the second thing I ever that in the sour gushers I ordered a few months ago worth it you know but I'm a sonner the only thing I've ever bought through Instagram or TikTok oddly is my co-hosts are going to laugh at me it was natural chewing gum oh yeah I get those ads yeah I've never done it in my life I don't think I will again because when I did it I was like why did I do that and I don't chew gum gives you the better jaw. There's one that they tell you that gives you like a more chiseled jaw.

That's why he bought it, Anthony. I don't believe I made that one. We're all victims to the TikTok show. Yeah. But I am really curious about that beef tallow, so please let us know. I'll keep you posted. For sure, my face is going to break out.

It's going to look like a pepperoni pizza within two days and then I'll stop. And then I'll use it on my hands or my dog's paws when I take her on the walk so the salt doesn't mess it up. I don't know. I have heard somehow that it does not cause breakouts. How is that possible?

how is it possible that beef tallow is pure animal fat yeah right it smells delicious it smells like does it really like i almost wanted to try it and i was like we don't need to be doing this right now no um so you know something that you uh have of course become known for especially through queer queer eye is being vulnerable being uh being being transparent being forthcoming and i guess i'm just curious like at what point Do you feel this reflex, which is more automatic when you're like 12, 13, you know, into 14, 15, 16, teens, 20s, when does it become more conscious so that you're like, ah, I understand something about myself so that even if I'm doing that, I can name it and or I'm interested in others, you know?

I mean, I feel like you're sort of touching on self-awareness. it was shockingly like much later in life that I was able to put a name to the feelings that I was feeling because I for a really long time sorry 80% of my life is therapy so Carol's just going to come up a lot so she's basically a guest on the show there are five of us here she's in my brain but I think that because I I've always been a very sensitive person like I remember I was eight or nine years old and I cried the first time I listened to Don't Look Back in anger by Oasis and I was at like a summer camp and they were like what's going on and I was like I remember thinking like it's incredible that a human being can feel so much pain

about having their heartbroken and like I don't know what that's like but like it's wild that humans are capable of that so I was like a really I had a lot of feelings but I didn't really know how to put a name to them and if it was something that impacted me directly like I could feel for I could feel empathy for someone or if I'm at a party and someone's like really like going through it in a corner of a room like I really take that on but when it comes to myself I'm really good at compartmentalizing and kind of putting it aside whenever I need to I think I was raised in a household too it's it's for me it's conditioning and it's and it's nurture that kind of like plays into like why I think I am the way that I am, and I lived in a house where it wasn't really, I didn't always feel

safe to express my feelings and to share what I was going through because there were other characters that required a lot more attention and that were a lot louder. And I think being the youngest, it was sort of like, it wasn't like the classic toxic masculinity of like, you're a boy shut things down. It was just sort of like, you know, it was, it was my mother. Like, it was, all the attention was kind of there. She, like, ran the show. And so I didn't really have space to kind of do that. And I was the peacekeeper.

So I was the one if things, like, really got out of hand, I was the one who, like, calm things down with either humor, impersonations, or just trying to, like, keep the tempo. So I learn to be really sensitive about other people. And I think sort of that, like, bedside manner and empathy I definitely get from my father. I love human connection in all its forms.

There's nothing better than, like speaking to a random ass person and getting to know a bit of their life or meeting someone falling in love new friends old friends like all that kind of stuff um but when it comes to me it was it was very recent where i was able to be like oh i'm actually scared i'm actually oh this actually makes me angry which is a very novel and kind of like uh because i thought i really had my shit together emotionally in terms of that connection of like mind body and heart um So I don't know if that answers your question, but I think it definitely came a lot later in life for me, I feel, than some people. Stick around. We'll be right back.

All right. So let's just real talk, as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. That dates me, doesn't it? But no, real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a one to ten. And I don't mean the in this. sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick. When you have responsibilities, I know myself, I'm a householder. I have two children and two more on the way, a spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down some other way physically you know my family holds me down emotionally spiritually but i need something to hold me down physically right and so honestly i turned to symbiotica these these these these these these

vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious and i'm telling you um even before us i've done ads for these guys it was a product that i uh i really really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with um the three that i use i use uh the the what is it called the liposomal vitamin c and it tastes delicious like really really good um comes out in the packet you put it right in your mouth some people don't do that i do it i think it tastes great i use the liposomal uh glutathione as well in the morning um really good for gut health and although i don't need it you know anti-aging um and then i also use the magnesium l3 and eight which is really good for for i think mood and stress i sometimes use it in the morning sometimes use it at night all three

these things taste incredible, honestly. You don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. As the seasons change, it's the perfect time to learn something new. Whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or looking for a new challenge before the year ends, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language progress. Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language on desktop or mobile whenever and wherever it fits your schedule.

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Get I-XL now. And Podcrush listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL memberships when they sign up today at IXL.com slash podcrushed. Visit IXL.com slash podcrushed to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. So we're hearing a lot about your interior and your feelings, which is because that's that's that's kind of what that's kind of what we do i get i'm i'm also curious what your whether it was academic or like where were your interests and where did you see yourself

going at this point always wanted to be an actor always since i was a little kid um i loved to like pretending i was on the titanic and like roll down the stairs and my mother would think that i would like hurt myself i also had like a deep obsession with the titanic but that's neither here nor there um And I think as I just I wanted to be in films and just to play characters. I loved being the bad guy and I loved directing my friends of like how they were going to walk in and like who was going to fall and like who was going to throw the first punch. Just like classic boy stuff. And then I think as I got older, it was still there. But I think because my parents are, you know, both physicians, a lot of physicians in the family, it was kind of I was like gently pushed towards that way.

So I ended up getting a psych degree because I felt like it was kind of like the middle ground. But yeah, I just wanted to be in movies and like play characters and like live in a fantasy land. I think my understanding of acting when I was 12, I think subconsciously was that I would get to kind of like hide behind a character. And I think then once, when I moved to New York after university

and started like went to neighborhood playhouse and did like Meisner Studies and it was like, oh no, you're actually like bringing parts of your actual self. Like there's actual real human vulnerability that's there. Kind of opened me up towards that path. And then with queer eye, hmm, was not part of the plan at all. I wanted nothing to do with unscripted television. And I certainly didn't want to cook in a professional capacity. Like that wasn't, those were two.

Like, and talking about my sexuality, like, hell no. Like, super private guy. Which, like, landing literally on the gayest show. I say that with all, like, only lovingly. Hit the bingo. And then asked to share about my personal life, it was sort of like, God damn, I'm like, what is happening here? Wow. So I feel like I ended up doing something that was a lot more vulnerable in a way that's kind of opened me up in different ways.

And that's completely shifted the trajectory of what I feel like my sense of purposes now that I kind of like have this platform and just using it to tell stories through food, basically. Okay, before we, because that's actually really, really interesting. And I would love to transition right there into. into what you've been doing so we'll get right back to that but I think but we do have it would have been a good segue but go ahead it would have been perfect

we can't we got to ask you a couple more questions yeah we do have classic we do have classic questions that are just in the in the adolescent space more just that coming of age formative stuff do you have a first crush and or a first heartbreak story

hmm first I had I had two famous crushes one of them was Aliyah and the other one was Gwen Stefani in her in her no doubt days like early on like I'm just a girl she was not just a girl to me

I was in love with both of them and then the first real her name it was Judy Karam you didn't ask for a full name why am I sharing it people often do it's really they know yeah they really they give survey Because the specificity allows me to like kind of like tap into that, you know?

It's like crazy Debbie vibes. And she was like the sweetest girl ever. And we dated for, I don't know how long, but it probably felt like seven years. And like we literally spoke on the phone from 9 p.m. until like three o'clock in the morning. And then one of the hands would like get on the phone and be like, what the hell are you doing? And we would just stay silent because it like felt illegal. I don't even know what the hell we would talk about. Like what did we have to say at that?

that age that was at all pro for four hours and she would write these letters that were like 10 pages long about and then i would respond with like how much we loved each other and like it was there was i don't think there was any discussion about the future it was just so many feelings in this very much like in the moment and then you know goo-dolls playing on the radio and then we both lose our mind and every single shenaya twain song still the one that was about us shenaiyah She wrote that for us. And Judy would quote the song and it was like and then holding hands and then like when the fingers got interlocked

I was telling my friend my best friend Earl that they did and then the first time we made out and it was like oh my God and the first time we made out in a room alone again like it was just like just these like all these things happening and it was all like so big and grandiose and it was just like just my heart was like beating like so freaking hard the entire time it was so intense. Wow.

So then is there a first heartbreak too? I don't mean, I hate to ask. So if there was a heartbreak, it was unrequited love. I'm still close with her. What? Her name was Lindsay Riggs. And I was, she was like, she was one of like the cool girls. And she had like the BB top with like the little, the little embroidered like crystals and like the bell-bombed jeans.

She had the coolest mom. Her mom drove us to Atlanta to the Up and Smoke tour with Eminem and Dre and Snoop might have been there too. And she waited in the parking lot. We were in the eighth grade and she waited in the parking lot while we went to the show. And someone gave us a sucker and we were convinced that it was a weed sucker and it was just like flavored

but like we thought we were super high when we weren't afterwards. But anyway, I was, I remember like I was just like she was all that I could think about and I would keep on trying to flirt with her but I didn't know how. and I remember one time I had a sleep over at her place and she she snuck out to go see this guy and I stayed in her room and I remember just like sitting in her room and to me it was like gray carpeting

she had this like big brown dresser posters everywhere because she was like single child allowed to do whatever the hell she wanted in her room and like my house everything was like had its place and I was like oh it's like damn like she doesn't want to be with me that's so honestly my heart just sort of had a little it folded in on itself a bit that is a terrible feeling that that kind of it's like because it's so in your face you're there because you want to be with her and she's like bye

I'm going to see Sean like oh Sean sorry Anthony why am I doing it's fine everything is fine we can bleep that one out no no I don't know and and yeah and I remember like when she came back. I imagine it's what my dog feels like every time if I like go to the gym for now or go quickly running around where it's like just sitting by the door, you know? And then as soon as she got back, I couldn't have been happier. I had no resentment. I pushed all

those feelings down and decided not today under the carpeted rug. And just like I think we just like talked until you know like two o'clock in the morning and then fell asleep. Also I'm thinking I'm like eighth grade. I'm like, why did my parents let me sleep a girl's house? Yeah. And, but her mom was super chill and like trusted her. Anyway. Wow. Just one of the questionable things. You, um, you described yourself as a big wallower, which when I heard you say that, I could really relate and like, yep, I like to wallow. Yeah, she does. And I can think of specific examples that looking back, I'm like, that's so ridiculous. That's so overly dramatic.

And like for like one specific example is like my husband and I, when we were just, when we had just gotten engaged, we had to go long distance and we weren't going to see each other for five months. And he dropped me at the airport. And we played this song mended by Vera Blue that was so sad and we were both crying. And then after that I would continually be like, let's listen to that song. Like let's just sit here and listen. He's like, no, I don't want to. And yeah, I feel like for a wallower, there are things you can look back on and be like, that's ridiculous looking back.

I wonder if you have any stories like that. Yeah, I mean, I think it's, for me, it's dialing pain. It's just like figuring out how to just feel. I'm as someone who really loves to feel, whether it's joy or whether it's sadness, I have my instinct is to hold on to it for as long as I possibly can. and I think even like when like when Judy and I broke up I don't remember the reason why I remember just like being so blue and sad and I would just go and reread all her letters that I had in my drawer every single line like could I find another word somehow or like was there going to be some kind of a hidden meaning because it's even at the you know at the when

When the breakup is done, it's sort of like I just go, I used to go and just kind of like relive every single moment that I could. And Earl was like my best friend, Earl Floreska. I'm such a cool dude. It's an amazing name. And he's, he taught me to wear two, because we didn't have calves and we wanted to look cool and we had cargo shorts. And so I would have two pairs of polo sport socks on to make my legs look bigger.

So we felt really cool in our visors. It was dope. We were awesome. Visors, the Abercrombie Cargo shorts, and two socks. What a time. And the orange parachute pants. Anyway, ADD's real guys. That's right.

That's right. Orange parachute pants. And I would call him and he was dealing with his heartache. No, because he was like falling in love with one of my best friends. And so we would just like listen to, it was like a lot of Goo Goo Goo Dolls. We would just listen to songs together and talk about our feelings. And he was like, buddy who we just like we just commiserated together and we kind of fueled each other it was like a bit

of a foliadour where it was like I'm just gonna like egg you on and like yeah tell me more like just like let's let's go you know and so he was like my safe space to kind of to kind of do that with because there's so many so many feelings when you're that young yeah's true and there's no perspective there's no sense of impermanence that it's like oh the way I feel right now I'm not going to feel like this forever no I was the only one to ever experience hard and no one would ever understand what it was like and I was just walking around with my cross at school every day, you know?

Yeah, and seeing her in the halls. Oh, devastating. Anthony, we have one more classic question and then we're going to get to your illustrious career. Do you have an embarrassing story you can share with us? Apart from all those. Apart from all those, yeah. Let's go more.

Dig a little deeper. Oh, I remember, I would say, Okay, just because I was like, I was envisioning kind of like being in the halls of Beckley Stratton Jr. High School. Mr. Cantley, the principal. Let's go. Ronald Cantley. He would start every announcement with, I might not be perfect, but I think I'm the best principal in the world. What?

What? Something going on with that person. Okay. That was his line. He drove me crazy. He was just, he's such a dick. Not at all what a principle should be. But anyway, I had, I was obsessed.

Like you, at that age, it's sort of like the girls would go to bath and bodyworks and, like, dows themselves with that, like, chemical spray stuff. That was, like, reminiscent of what vapes taste like these days. Not that I know. And I was obsessed with polo sport by Ralph Lauren, that blue bottle with that chrome little lid that I would get it. You're naming like the exact same things. Really? You're naming the exact same things I was seeing on the other side of the country at this point.

Like, I mean, from the Abercrombie shorts, the visors, I mean, I never did the visors. That was one year. Hats off to you. No, no, no, no. I mean, look at it. He had to go on the record and say it. No, no, my friend, what I mean is that I was short and squat

and I could not pull off a visor. I would look. Trust me You're being generous I never said I pulled it off I had the two like hot skinny tall guys of the group they wore visors

I wished I could pull it off I wished so badly I could pull off a visor but I couldn't I couldn't Abercrombie visor but I so I have this bottle of pull a sport and naturally you know when you're that age

puberty and all like you're putting Cologne on like five times a day I'm not even mad at home I'm bringing you with me to school and I took it out of my locker and it was obviously like those clanging metal lockers and the bottle like reached for something in the back and then the bottle just fell and shattered and Ronald can't leave I remember now we had a different name for him that I'm

not going to use walked up to me and he was right there and he picked up the bottle and he looked and he was like but this says it's for men insinuating like I was a boy oh my Oh, snap. What a dick, right? No, really, something's wrong with him. Like, you should not be in that way. So if he controlled yourself. Like, he should not be a principal.

Something like, you know, there's like people sometimes. I feel like you get really incredible. Because I was a teacher, Navajo was a former middle school principal as well. So I feel like I can speak to some type of experience of like faculty in school. I feel like there's like there's one part of the population that is just like service-oriented, there for the kids and then there's like some people who work in schools

who have some kind of like power complex or something going on Ronald Cantley First of all And just to be clear Now Sophie is naming names I had teachers who were amazing

Mrs. Bozeman in the gifted program told me that it's beautiful that I speak French and I should embrace that V Browning taught me like that was sort of like the introduction to English lit and got me like reading books when I didn't feel like it

so I had a lot of amazing teachers but no not Ronald I'm not giving him anything. He gets... Let's not focus on them. Let's focus on Ronald. Whatever his name is. Well, Anthony, I'm so curious because you told us, you know, just a few questions ago,

like, you didn't want to... You hate talking about your sort of sexuality publicly. You didn't want to do a cooking show. Like, basically all these things you didn't want to do, and all of that is what you do on queer eye. So how did you get there? Tell us, what was your path to queer eye? And I also should say we've had Bobby Burke.

and Karamo on the show and they both had amazing paths so I'm now convinced that every person who's ended up on that show has had an amazing journey to get there. Prior to working,

to Queer Eye, about a year before that I was working for Ted Allen who was the original food and wine expert on Queer Eye in the first iteration of the show. He lived across from me in Brooklyn and I was his personal assistant.

And so I sometimes like, I made him sandwiches and like made lunches, made meals for like dinners stuff like a little bit of like catering stuff and then helping develop and test recipes writing like TED talks and like sustainability he was actively involved in a lot of the gardens in in Brooklyn as well in the co-ops and so I was kind of like organizing his schedule and at the time he was working on um still is on chopped and so kind of understanding what a production life looks like with like car pickups and flights

and all that kind of stuff and then I ended up working um in um in a gallery um uh based I was a gallery director for post-war art and french and american deco and because i wanted to have like a nine to six job all while working at night at a sushi restaurant bond street but all of these jobs kind of allowed me to still audition so i was going to um a lot of castings um i audition three times for the original gossip girl did you really yeah twice it was for french waiter and they were like oh you're like french canadian i was like yeah and so it didn't work out oh like that um They were concerned about French representation. I mean, I know.

But anyway, never got it. And so I was doing all these different things. And then a friend of mine reached out. I had kind of had, you know, my, I've always had like a board of directors. And those are like the friends who've been there for you who are going to just like just be brutally honest with you and put you in your place where you can always rely on that I kind of like, if I'm questioning my intentions or I feel like I'm not making a right move. They're the ones I go to. And a couple of them kept on telling me like, you're so obsessed with food. You don't shut up about it. You love to cook

for your friends. Like, why don't you start doing like YouTube videos or something? I was like, no, I want to be an actor. Like no one can take me seriously if I'm like cooking. And I was just very like sort of stubborn because I had this like set plan of like this thing that I wanted to accomplish. And then finally a friend of mine reached out who's a manager and he was like queer eyes being rebooted for Netflix. They want a diverse cast. It's very like story. storytelling based, and they want you to share about your personal life. So I immediately ran to one of my mentors. His name is Klaus.

And he's just, like, filled with wisdom and speaks in very short sentences, but you, like, really listen when he speaks. And I remember asking him, and I was like, I don't know if I want to do this. And he was like, well, why don't you want to do it? So I listed all the reasons. And he was like, well, you have to go try for it at least. And I asked him to explain why. And he was like, well, if the show, if you get it, and the show.

shows a failure, it's going to be a lesson. If you get it and it's a success, your career is going to take a different path and it's going to open up your doors to different things. But if you don't do it, whether it's a success or a failure or whatever, like, you're going to live in regret and you can't live in regret. You have to like, this is an opportunity to potentially have really big success or make a really big mistake. But either way, the feelings are going to be different, but it's going to be really good for your growth. So I was like, okay, so I went, I auditioned for it. It came down to 10 of us. They put me, in a casting room with the other four, with Bobby, Tan, Karamo, and JVM.

And for the first time in my life, after going to so many freaking auditions, I was like, oh shit, I'm like, this is what good chemistry feels like. Because the showrunner, David Collins, was running behind us. We were like finishing each other's sentences. We were bantering. I looked at the optics. I was like, this looks pretty good. And then they put us in two cars, and we did mock episodes.

And they put me in a car with four other people that I hadn't tested with. And they put someone else in the other car. And I remember we're driving up to the house GoPros everywhere, set up like a real episode. And I remember one of the guys in my car went. Guys, I think we're like the A team. I think it's us. And I look and it's like, we were all white dudes. And I was like, in my mind, I remember like holding onto my seat and just like pressing my fingers underneath.

And I was like, you're the B team. We're not the A team. We're not the A team. Something ain't right. And we did. the thing and I did a little food demo and we did a little mock episode. I came back to New York. I got a call from Ali who's in casting who's so communicative with me throughout the whole process which I'd never experienced before because when you don't book a role, they don't tell you like

it's your nose or it's your performance. You just kind of like move on to the next thing. And she was like, you didn't get it and you didn't not get it. They're still considering like you, but they were confused with the fact that I had gone to acting school, that I worked as a gallery director, that I these like other things and they were worried that I was like an actor trying to be like a food person when my narrative was basically like no like two things can exist at the same time I'm like passionate about a lot of things um and you know and food is just one of them so they invited me to go back to L.A. I had to compete against four more people and my partner at the time I didn't want to go because I was like they don't see me I don't feel seen um why should I go fight for this and

he was like why don't you stop seeing it that way and kind of like shift your perspective and just see it is like they haven't had an opportunity to see you yet so go show them who they are who you are and so I went pathological competitiveness kicked in they the best pasta carbon era ever using cold eggs which is really challenging because you don't want them to curdle and then about a week later I was sitting in the gallery about to make a really big sale on this beautiful deco piece from like a ship that used to be part of Andy Warhol's like collection and we like found it in the catalog and we were so excited and um and i got the call and it was rob eric from scout and he was like are you sitting down and i was like yeah i am now and they were all on the phone and they were like we just want you to

know across the board between like netflix itv and scout like we all want you in the family and like we'd love to have you join us i cried it took the subway home my ex-partner now picked me up from work he came from his office and we just like stood on the subway and i just like kept on giggling like holding on to the railing just like shaking with like excitement because i was like oh i think this is like going to be a thing. Wow. A huge moment. Yeah.

Yeah. The F train. It's interesting to hear how your background wasn't already so zeroed in on food and just everything that it can be and everything that it means. I guess I'm curious how you have embraced that, you know, and how you are enjoying that journey. I compartmentalized a lot. Like, bear with me, but even with like,

sexuality, I think a part of me knew that eventually I would end up with a guy, but it wasn't anything that I felt the need to like lean into until it was going to happen with the right person. And so I kind of like set that block to the side. And I kept that part a little like separate from me. And I've kind of been like that with a lot of things. And as I've grown older, it's just become fucking exhausting. And I'm just like, I'm just going to be me in like whatever room I go in because it's like this is way too much energy and I'm getting older and I think with food it was that it was just this personal thing it was like it was how I showed my love to my ex's family on a Sunday when I would make like meatloaf and and like a root veg mash situation or um it was how my parents

showed me love when we were growing up and it was you know the like those were the happiest memories so on queer eye suddenly it was like oh that's kind of like bleeding into like what I thought my work life was going to be like and from them Then, you know, became, like, public speaking that came from it with a lot of, like, mental health awareness stuff and writing hookbooks and doing a competition show. And then with no taste like home, it's, I think it's a, in many ways, it's an evolution of that. It's a, you know, epic national geographic show where you get, like, incredible distas of, like, the Borneo jungle and all that kind of stuff.

But, and yes, I'm taking, like, celebrities to their country of origin, but I'm taking these individuals and I'm asking them, like, what's a dish that you remember from child? like what smells like home to you like your first question and we do a deep dive and we go to their country of origin and we explore sort of what was going on sociocultural politically at the time we break it down and through that it's like yes it's about the food but it's so much more than that because a thing that we realize like three or four episodes in like I love talking about generational trauma especially being Polish having two grandfathers as Catholics who were in concentration camps with like all my Polish friends and cousins it's like instilled in us since we were little kids

And I feel like I don't often talk about or think about generational gifts. It's like, why are we the way that we are? Why are we very passionate about certain things? Why am I so obsessed with food? And we found this through line with every single person that we did where they kind of had this idea of sort of like, Issa said it in Senegal and it was like a beautiful quote. And she was like, I'm literally like I'm standing on the shoulders of giants. and like I'm here because of those who came before me

and learning from her that she had an ancestor who in a male-dominated fishing village in Saint-Louis in Senegal was the first woman to import peanuts from Mali and started like a really like flourishing successful business and I mean there are so many stories like that as well like with Florence Pugh I asked her why she wanted to do the show because if I didn't know them ahead of time I wanted to talk and be like manage expectations let them know like

there are no gotcha moments here I want this to feel like like a gift for you, something that you can pass on to friends and family and kids one day. I was like, why do you want to do this? And she's like, I'm obsessed with organic growing practices, sustainability. I've been cooking since I was like a little kid. Everyone's obsessed with it in my family. My dad has restaurants. It's like generation after generation.

And then to go back and look and realize that they're not characters or people in her inner family lineage who came from like extreme poverty, who were jailed for stealing food for petty theft, which is. often what happened at the time when they couldn't provide for their families, learning that then they used food as a tool to cook, to create businesses to be able to sustain their families and then had to pivot when crazy things happened and they lost their businesses. So it's like, it all kind of goes back to just like being able to like kind of like take that look back. And I think with food being the focal point of it, we're able to like uncover so much. And we'll be right back.

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heroes that are in each episode. And I was wondering, like of course, sometimes that is, that happens very naturally. And maybe it's something intangible. But then I wondered if you have any tips for how to form a connection with someone who's a stranger at first. Yeah. That's a very good question. And I've never heard that one before. I really like it. We all worked on it together.

It was a team effort. Okay. Thanks, guys. When I caught on to the fact that that was the notion of the show, it actually made me really uncomfortable because I'm I really loathe unsolicited advice from people and I don't like people who like tell me how I should feel not that we do that on the show and so I feel like my approach on it has been not unlike what my therapist is like with me it's sort of I I try to just be a conduit to like exploring different venues of things that I'm curious about so whether it's how somebody was

raised the type of food that they had what their relationship with food is is it more emotional is it more utilitarian and that's always kind of the journey that i've tried to take on queer eye like i'm known to i can stay on the plot but i also tend to go off course sometimes as well and just like figuring out what that journey is and my scenes will change pretty last minute where it's like we had an idea but then i have a talk with them on camera and it's sort of like no this isn't about um this isn't about grandma's pie and recreating it. It's actually like this person wants to, this person actually wants to like eat healthy and they don't know like the rules of like protein and fiber and that kind of stuff. And I have like a decent understanding of it and I feel like that's how I can be best

of service like in this very moment. And what I learned on Queer Eye was like the first two episodes I didn't share anything about my life. I just asked them questions and I realize like that's not really working. It has to be this kind of like, is symbiotic the word? Kind of like a back and forth of like I need to be able to share a bit about myself so that you're comfortable doing the same. Reciprocal maybe. In terms of like building that connection. Yeah. It's reciprocal. Yeah, it has to be reciprocated. Some people like it when you relate to them when they share a certain experience and it's like, oh, like I have my version of that. And then I've learned over the years that some people really do not like that. That when they're sharing their part, they feel like you're

taking away from them when you share yours. So then I kind of like learn to like shift and be like, oh okay well like can you tell me more about that basically kind of I'm not a therapist and I'm not you know not my point is it's sort of like taking some like certain tips and tricks where it's like just asking a lot of open-ended questions and just being inherently curious and it's about things that I really care about and just trying to go in with authenticity and no bullshit and and yeah well I was thinking about what you said generational gifts I don't have a question here I was just been like reflecting on that and um sorry i have so many diversion thoughts and i'm trying to put them into one coherent thought but i've been thinking about like in a lot of ways like modernity is an experiment

and i think a lot of aspects are post modernity whatever we're in right now i think a lot of ways it's a failed experiment and i think a lot of the failure is like this like extreme individualism where we're like fractured from our own families and we don't even know a lot of our history like I don't know a lot of my ancestral history. And, like, I don't even know what my grandparents and my great grandparents on both sides necessarily did, but have, like, learned some stuff. And I'm like, oh, like, I've done so many things that on both sides of the family, they did. And I'm, like, just learning that. And I just thought I was some individual who happened to be good at certain things.

And it's like, no, it was in the bloodline. But I read this passage from the scriptures of my own faith, which sort of described something akin to, like, a family tree is a real thing. you are the fruit of the tree of your family, and certain tree will bear certain kinds of fruit, and it will not bear other kinds of fruit. So it is worth understanding, like, the fruit that your tree will bear. Like, you are worthy of, like, you are worthy of your family tree. So, like, certain family trees will bear, like, the fruit of, like, the intellect. And other trees will bear, like, the fruit of the arts.

And anyway, it's this, like, really beautiful passage. And it talks about all these, like, beautiful, different kinds of fruit, which is not trying to, like, keep you, like, contained, I think. but I was thinking about like in the past like all the members of family would be like blacksmiths and stuff anyway I don't know exactly where I'm going with this but I feel like we have this notion of like radical individualism

where we don't even try to honor like our family gifts or even like understand what our family gifts are and what you're talking about is something really different where like you don't even know that in your family lineage people did this and you're doing it like it's not even like a thoughtful thing but it's in you imagine if we knew it and we tried to honor it and we could connect with the people who did it

I just think that's so beautiful. I really, no, but I really like that. I think it's this radical individualism in some ways. It's sort of like, yeah, you want to pursue your dreams. Learn who you are. Learn like your place in the world and like what you want to do and what your sense of purposes and all that kind of stuff. But when you start to get connected to where you came from,

I think it allows for like firmer ground underneath in terms of the foundation of confidence of knowing where you came from to where you're heading, that knowing that you have this like support. of these like not to get all hippie-dippy of these like all these beautiful souls and like living breathing people who like made sacrifices and it's like oh like i'm not alone like i'm that's actually the least hippie thing that that's a beautiful thing to say and i and we do unfortunately in our culture we we we have to make the disclaimer of being the two phrases hippie-dippy or woo-woo

you know but actually what you just said is extremely grounded in reality it's grounded it's a it's the definition of grounded you're thinking of your roots you know and that's a i think we need to do it it more. I mean, we need to, and for so many reasons, it's like, and if we don't understand the past and actually pay attention to it and continue to tell those stories, then history gets repeated. Like, now I'm getting all, like, political and, like, worldly, but it's like, if we don't continue to tell these stories, then you have, you know, corporation leaders out there who are making symbols reminiscent of shit that they were doing in 1939, and it's sort of like, no, like, we have to be able to, like, detect that stuff, you know? Yeah. I think it's story

telling is that it's it's just it's so incredibly important absolutely we do have a final question well first actually no i want to ask you is there anything else about because it sounds like we're sort of tapping a rich vein you know here is there anything else about your show um no taste like home that you want to share well it drops on hulu and disney plus on the 24th of february no but i mean i i i mean this was you know i i i i it was such an incredible experience to go to places that otherwise under any other circumstance, I probably would have no business of going to, like the coast of Seneca where I'm like trying to plan a personal trip back this year because I was just so touched. I don't know. I'm kind of like, it's raining. I'm

like in my fields where like having these talks and it's just a reminder of how like exposure to diversity is so important and travel. It's like I was going through like a rough personal patch when a lot of the episodes were being filmed and there's something about being around other people and like being so aware that you're like a citizen of the world and like sucking you out of your own little problems and seeing that there's like joy and pain and suffering and thriving that's going on all at the same time it was just like such a perspective shift final question if you could go back to 12 year old anthony uh would you say or do anything i think i would tell myself like it's okay to stick up for yourself and to like share how it is that you're feeling

because I think that for like a lot of my childhood I felt like I just wasn't allowed to and it really messed me up for like a lot of my 20s to know that I was like in charge of my own body and my own decisions and my own thoughts and that I didn't have to like squash them down or just try to be agreeable for other people who were like more powerful and stronger than I was

I would have just like tell myself like courage like have courage literally the same word why did you say it like that though I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm just thinking of you no it's so good it's so good because I love that Penn's always trying to speak in French

he's always like he wants he wants what you have it's not right it's not great it's not right No, not you do. Thank you so much for coming on, Antony. This was like so many different, like feelings and everything.

Oh, my gosh. You can watch No Tastes Like Home on Nat Geo, Disney Plus, or Hulu, and you can follow him online at Antony. Pod Crush is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navacavalin, and Sophie Ansari. is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency. Special thanks to the folks at Lamanada. And as always, you can listen to Pod Crush ad-free on Amazon music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye. This is basically going to be a trauma dump of my teenage years.

Exactly. Yeah, that's great. It's good for us. It was good for you. I have therapy afterwards, so I can unload it all on Carol. We're fine. Don't worry about. Let's tear open some wounds.