Podcrushed - Ariana Grande (Part 2)

Episode Date: June 17, 2024

In Part 2 of this special conversation with Ariana Grande, Ariana spills the beans on why she keeps casting TV serial killers as her music video leads, the dance move Penn tried to sneak into the "The Boy Is Mine" video, and the inspiration for her Eternal Sunshine era. The gang share their reactions to the Wicked trailer, and Ariana opens up about all the magic she experienced bringing Glinda to life — in front of and behind the scenes.   Follow Podcrushed on socials: TikTok Instagram XSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada Hello, my sweet little crushies. It's me, Sophie. This is part two of our wide-ranging conversation with Ariana Grande. That's my daughter. She is just as excited as you and me. If you haven't already listened to part one of our conversation with Ariana, go back, listen to part one. If you have, this is a little gift for you.

Part two starts right after this break. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant veggies, and tells. tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair, beef mash, lamb, pilaf, and turkey and chicken

cookout. I mean, are you kidding me? I want to eat these recipes. Each recipe is cooked gently in small batches to seal in vital nutrients and maximize digestibility. And their recipes are crafted by vet nutritionists. So I feel good knowing its design with Louie's health and happiness in mind. Serve nom nom nom as a complete and balanced. meal or is a tasty and healthy addition to your dog's current diet.

My dogs are like my children, literally, which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best. Hold on. Let me start again because I've only been talking about Louie. Louis is my bait. Louis, you might have heard him growl just now. Louis is my little baby, and I'm committed to only giving him the best. I love that Nom Nom Nom's recipes contain wholesome nutrient rich food, meat that looks like meat and veggies that look like veggies, because shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the Lamb-P-Laf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lamb-peelaf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with NomNum, available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at

trynom.com slash podcrush spelled try-n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. Why do we do what we do? What makes life meaningful. My name is Elise Lunan, and I'm the author of On Our Best Behavior and the host of of the podcast, Pulling the Thread. On Pulling the Thread, I explore life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves, others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to Pulling the Thread from Lemonada Media, wherever you get your podcasts. I was going to ask a question that maybe Bridges us from this like middle school era

into your adult's career life. The end of my 90s. Yeah. But you mentioned Defying Gravity. It was a song that you listened to as a teen or as a kid. You know what's funny? I thought it was Define. It is Define Gravity.

I thought it was Define Gravity. That's why he defined society. I don't. I was like, oh, right. This is a great segue. I can do it. The Roche Point. Define gravity.

I'm sorry. Defying gravity. As a song that you would listen. listen to a lot, but I'm curious around that time, what were some other musicians or artists, what music was, like, was present for you. This is such a, like, vivid time in my brain for music and, like, perfect. What I loved. So this is great.

I can do that. I remember this chapter. Yeah. Great. We'll stick to this one. No, but, um, I, my favorite playlist was all India, RE, Imogen Heap and Broadway. Wow. It was the most bizarre.

she made so many feelings so many feelings so much information but I think also perfectly made me you know what I mean like that makes a lot of sense and like that's exactly makes sense I don't know yeah that was my playlist that's such a good combo I like that yeah I think there was like two Natasha Beddingfield songs in there as well love so Ariana obviously you have like one of the most illustrious music careers of all of all time. We're going to skip right past. No, I don't. Well documented. You definitely do. That's good. Let's skip it. But we're going to go to Eternal Sunshine. So we want to talk all about the album. But let's start with the music video. The Boy is mine.

Starring Penn Badley. So my first question is. It's a feature. Why Penn? True. Starring. No, that is my first question. Why Penn for this video? That is a great question. Well, you really inspired it with you. Honestly, Christian Christian Breslauer, the director, yeah, amazing director, was, he was actually one of the first people to hear any of this album because we had a FaceTime early on in the process of finishing the album

when I just had demos and ruffs of everything and I just loved him. He had all the right references. We had the same taste and everything. And I was a fan of his work, but I didn't know what he would be like. He's a Floridian. He's a Panthers fan. He's like, no, it's cosmic. He's just like this creative cosmic collision

He's wonderful but I sent him all the voice notes And as soon as he heard the boy is mine He was like this reminds me of the show you Whatever we do with this video Let's ask him to do it He had that idea I didn't even know that

Anything else I didn't know that Yeah And I told you on the longest flight in America When we were flying home Which was actually not that long We were in like a we were in a wormhole or something What you don't know is we flew home after the shoot

We flew back to New York with, like, my team and my mom. And you and my mom, and it was just, we spoke for like an hour, but we thought it was the whole flight. Yeah, it was an hour and a half. And I remember at some point your mom goes, before everyone fell asleep. She's like, we must be ready to land soon.

She's like, you won't start up about the road lines. We're all just, we're all, like, so delirious. I did not know how I was going to keep, you know, like, engaging. But you so generously flew from finishing a day of shooting on you to come in. That's true. overnight, like, it was the nicest... He was already in character. Most cherishing.

Yeah. But it was very funny because I got to know your mom. Aw. But then all of us were talking for a while, and it was, we all swore that we were talking for about three and a half hours. And then it was like barely 90. And we were just like, oh.

Every time was so tired. And we were like, all right, can I? We all just like, try to sleep, stand. Amazing. Okay, so Chris thought of Penn. Yes. And then... But I was like, obviously, yes, because I'm a massive fan. My other screen name we won't talk about. Obviously. You'll tell me later. No, but yeah, I was like, he'll never do it. But yeah, of course. Like, absolutely ask him today. But yeah, then the concept kind of came together because I texted him and I was like, I want to marry the two ideas together somehow. How can we do this sort of you type thing where I'm obsessed with this person?

and I'm also just a super villain. Like this song is like me playing the villain to the nth degree and like just kind of how can I be this cat? And like, you know, and so he wrote this brilliant treatment and then Penn made it so much better. Like you were so amazing because you're so invested. I'm sorry, I'd have to say. He was like, we had many face times before we did the actual shoot

where you asked the most thoughtful questions. And it was so nice. from like the songwriting and my point of view in the song and you were like I've really been thinking about this and the difference between the original versus this one is like the original one is competitive between two women but this one's about you and your own insecurities no you were really so that's true but but the way that it was pitched to me by my team I think they misunderstood they thought it was an actual cover or like an adaptation of the boy is mine and so I'm listening to it and I'm like waiting for the boy is mine to come different you know look I get that it's got the same title but like I'm just not hearing it and so I was really trying to connect the dots. And I'm like, okay, so the original, we have two of it, right? Two of it's not one, it's two. You were very thoughtful, though. It was very thoughtful.

They're competing. But in this one, who's she competing with herself? No, but it was really thoughtful and caring. And you were like, what is my intention? How do we end up at the happily ever after? I'm not buying it. The love potion thing, maybe they don't need the love potion. He pitched the idea.

Oh, wow. No, he broke this whole thing. That's great. It's amazing. It really is. It's great. It was so, I was just so thankful. I did pitch just for you to know.

Yeah. And for anybody who's listening. Oh, you're bringing it up? I did pitch that I, that I dance. I never brought up again. I had to, I had to, I was like, I'm probably never going to be in the music video again. Yeah. And I mean, I'm like, this is the one chance I have to be in an R&N because I think it's the most R&B-flavored song of.

your, you know, of this record. Yeah, for sure. Certainly not your catalog, but this record. For sure. So I was like, I don't think I'm going to have the opportunity again. And if, you know, and I think what I was doing is I was playing with the idea of being the object rather than the objectifier. You know, typically I'm the abuser.

Not in real life. Just in my show. Can confirm. In my work, of course. In my work. And I just thought like, oh, this is nice. So then let me just like do the thing. And I did pitch.

Do the thing. You have to say what you actually said. Tell us. May I? Yeah, what was your interpretation of what I said? Well, you said, listen. And I, you said, I remember it so clearly because it was the most incredible moment ever. I had no idea where this was going.

Especially because everything leading up to it was so like the men that I'm playing. And the intention. It probably was confusing because I was like, I don't know how to say this directly. My intention with this ending. So the thing about Saturn. And it's gravitational. Can I dance in this? He said, I do this one spin thing.

This, you go, and I, you go, it was this long, long, long Saturn Roche point thing. And then he was like, no, I wouldn't say I'm a dancer, per se. But I do this one, like, spin move thing is what you said. What I said was, I don't have a signature spin move. I think I was saying like, can't know. That's what it was presenting. it as. It felt like that. I'm sorry. It felt like that to receive.

So what I was saying was like, I can do like a spin move. I'm not lying. This is the first lie he's ever told. I'm bending the truth the way Saturn's gravity bends. What's the difference between what I can do is this one spin thing and I have this one well, just all it is to clarify

that I don't have a signature spin move. That's the one move you can do. I have a whole I've got a bag. But you can do a one I don't know. I mean, I was just going to see, I was like, because I knew that I couldn't do a full dance. That would be absurd. I mean, it's not too late for the director's cut. Yeah. I was, I was, because I was really trying to lean into him being the object and performing for her, whereas she thinks that she has to perform for him and just trying to just, all of that. And dance.

So, did it end up? No, no, no, no, there's no dancing in it. There wasn't really, there wasn't really time for it. I knew there wasn't. I even, I was like, I don't know there is time for this. So I timed from the. the beginning of the bridge to the end of the song, right? I think it's like 44 seconds. And I was like, so you've got 44 seconds to tell this kind of like, you know, this like CODA, you know? And Christian's like, uh-huh. Yeah, uh-huh, yeah, I already know what I'm going to do. Thanks, right?

I'm crying. That was so funny. Shout out to Christian. It was so, why did I? But we were, we were really laughing because I just, because at this point, because I was nervous to ask because I'm just like, should I even be doing this? Like, am I going to regret this? Am I now going to have to dance in a video and I can't read?

No. It's like, you know. But we were really laughing. Dance or no dance? We were really laughing. It was fun. What was your first impression of Ariana? Well, it was that, it was those face times, really.

And I think once we started to get to laugh, that was, that was when, because the first face time we had was a little more formal, just a little bit. Yeah. And then the second one, I think we were really, yeah. The second one I had just woken up and I was like, I didn't have time before going to work and I was like, I love that though. You got to talk right now about this spin move. But that's my life. I love that. I love like a, hey, let's jump, let's go. I was my big glasses and my pajamas. It was perfect. I was like, great. I'm right here. Let's go. And that time we got

to laughing. And then I was like, okay, this is going to be, you know, we'll have fun. Yeah. Yeah. So actually, my first impression was, um, I don't particularly like when I hear people say this about others because it's something about it sounds. It's like I'm waiting for my report card. it's just so so grounded and kind and down to earth you know like you you were just so willing to collaborate which I think says a lot um because it's so your ship it's so your thing so we started by saying that this is not our usual setup and um the way we normally do things areiana there's a little tripod with a cell phone on like a desk and that's what we used to record yeah but i've seen it i've watched i was like where the hell am i we have a group chat we should do the same thing that's what i say

So we have a group chat. And I was like, guys, there's no way we're doing cell phones with Ariana, right? Why? He said, Ariana is so chilling down to earth. Like, we can do the cell phones. I was like, I will have a heart attack

if we do Ariana. I told you to know that he really did have that impression of you. Well, thank you. This is. Yeah. So this isn't even for you. This is for me. Good, good.

I'm happy to be here. This is also like, this is a great place for a spin move. This is a bird. I was going to ask, but I was like, oh, the cameras probably can't show this thing. There's no way.

There's no way. this context. No, there's no way. I cut you off. What were you going to say? I did. I don't even. Yeah, you set yourself up with this exact. But I'm not going to do it. Okay, so just cut to when it doesn't happen. But seriously, thank you for doing it. It's the coolest thing ever. It's the best video. It is so thrilling and what an honor. And you, the way you cared about it and like took it so seriously and brought it to a whole new level is so appreciated. And also like, it's so much more meaningful. The ending that you, no, it's beautiful. I'm very great. I did get to be, I did, I was whipped, not the way that it sounds, but, you know, there's, there's, there's the professional whip handler. What was his name? We called him T-Rex. What was his, what was his real name? T-Rex. You just call him T-Rex. That's the only thing they ever said. You know, the only way to, to learn how to receive a fake, like, you know, it's whipped next to you and then it just curls around you. And the only way to learn how to learn how to receive a fake, like, you know, it's, it's whipped next to you, and then it just curls around you. And the only way to learn how,

that is totally fine is to trust the man and let him do it. So you don't get to do like a slow whip, then it won't whip. He just has to be like, all right, so I'm just going to whip this right next to you and then it's going to curl around your legs. And I'm like, okay. And I'm standing there barefoot and he's just like, all right, you're ready? And everybody, the whole crew was standing there watching because it's like, well, I get, yeah, I'm just going to stand here and this man is just going to whip next to me.

And then it's just going to curl gently around my feet. and so you know and I've done a lot of like weird stunts I was gonna say I'm surprised this is your first whippin Well it was my first Yeah Crazy impossible to believe

That was the right way to say it by the way With all of the thing on you Like you think Yeah no but no I've done a lot of crazy things But not that in particular And so it was just another moment Where I was like yeah I'm here And he did

You know he just whips it cracks so loud Just right next to me And then it just curls so gently around my, like a, like a, a puppy. And my mom was like, me next. Yeah. I was like, my mom was like, go. She's like, but you can get closer. Get closer.

She was like, Ariana, you have to try it. I was like, I'm terrified. Yeah. And then we had to do it running. So he's like, all right, now we're going to do it running. And so then it's just like, our kids, we're going to do that. And I'm just going to, yeah. You know, I mean, that was pretty interesting to me.

Those falls were great. Yeah. They were intense. and we did we did the makeshift I'm dying to tell to tell Oh that's what you were Yes that's why I kept going like this The shoulder pads, that's right

Sorry that I kept going like this for a while to everyone No my Yeah they needed knee pads Because of course he's doing these like Falls and they're real falls And we don't have like a mat He's like I'm doing it and we're doing it And and but can we find knee pads

And my mom Who is always in like an age shaped look no matter what it is took out her silicone like cutlets that are used for like bras yeah and then underneath it there was another

fabric one and like the the silicone ones are what ended up on your knees both both and we took both from your moms and I taped them to his knees wow that's on camera somewhere there's a picture of this yeah no there's video it's definitely it's there just like wrap

some gaff tape around my knee and that thing and then I think he did one on elbows too yeah we did them on both elbows so I could really fall because I've taken enough falls to know that the first time you do it you think you're okay but you keep doing it and you get so badly bruised I'm still bruised right now from

a from a sequence I did last week where I had pads on but isn't that so rewarding isn't it sorry the pain the bruising yeah like when you shoot a scene that you're like that was so I'm feeling one right now I'm just like is it rewarding yeah you know what? I'll give you that. I love the battle wounds. I'll give you that. I'll give you that.

You're like, no. No, I mean, I think first time, although I will say this, the last two days, I was shooting, well, the last three days, I was shooting a really long sequence where I had to be wet. But I think it's a sign of maybe maturity, age, something, laziness. I finally let my stunt double do something that I could have done. Wow. I've never done that before. That's crazy. Never done it before. That's crazy. And there was a shot. I'm sitting down. I realize they're shooting it with him. To be fair, they didn't ask. They just started doing it. And I was like, what? No, no, that's fine. That's fine. I actually really just want to sit down right now. Yeah. And he was probably so excited. He was, yeah. Yeah. I always think about that.

It was fun. I loved working with you. Oh, thank you. It was so fun. I loved working with you too. You remember how I said in the beginning when we first sat, we shot the little coda first, the bit where they're chilling. Yeah. And I think at some point I said because it was, you know, this happens a lot of times

when you're shooting a movie or a TV show. You have to suddenly generate this relationship that doesn't exist yet. Immediately, because it's the first scene on the schedule. Yeah, and I said like I just wish you were shooting this last. Because I feel like,

we could become friends but that doesn't exist yet and I hate manufacturing it but it worked it was still all good but I think it's a testament just I'm saying that I did really enjoy it and I could tell what I was going to enjoy it and so I was like I wish we could just be laughing about this 12 hours from now when we could really be laughing about well I was laughing I do think it played well it's no it completely worked also he's allergic to cats and I didn't know and there were 17 Yeah, there were. How did you do it? I mean, you know, it wasn't that long.

Claritin free. Yes. Or any other provider. And we'll be right back. All right. So let's just real talk, as they say, for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. That dates me, doesn't it?

But no, real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a one to ten? And I don't mean in the sense of vanity, I mean in the sense of like, you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick. When you have responsibilities, I know myself, I'm a householder. I have two children and two more on the way, a spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands.

So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down. some other way physically you know my family holds me down emotionally spiritually but I need something to hold me down physically right and so honestly I turned to symbiotica these these these these these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious and I'm telling you even before us I've done ads for these guys it was a product that I I really really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with the three that I use I use the the what is it called liposomal vitamin C

and it tastes delicious like really really good comes out in the packet you put it right in your mouth some people don't do that I do it I think it tastes great I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning really good for gut health and although I don't need it you know anti-aging and then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8 which is really good for for I think mood and stress I sometimes use it in the morning sometimes use it at night all three of these things taste incredible, honestly. You don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping.

As the seasons change, it's the perfect time to learn something new. Whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or looking for a new challenge before the year ends, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language progress. Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language on desktop or mobile whenever and wherever it fits your schedule. Rosetta Stone immerses you in your new language naturally, helping you think and communicate with confidence. There are no English translation so you truly learn to speak, listen, and think in your chosen language.

The other day I was actually at the grocery store and I asked one of the people working there if they could help me find a specific item and she was like, sorry, I actually don't speak English. She only spoke Spanish and I was like, if only I, my Spanish was good enough to be able to have this conversation in Spanish, we would be sorted.

And that's where Rosetta Stone comes in. I really need to get back on my Rosetta Stone grind. With 30 years of experience, millions of users and 25 languages to choose from, including Spanish, French, German, Japanese, and more. Rosetta Stone is the go-to tool for real language growth. A lifetime membership gives you access to all 25 languages so you can learn as many as you want whenever you want. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. Podcrush listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit Rosetta Stone.com. com slash podcrush to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to rosettastone.com

slash podcrush and start learning today. The first few weeks of school are in the books and now's the time to keep that momentum going. I-XL helps kids stay confident and ahead of the curve. I-XL is an award-winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning. Whether they're brushing up on math or diving into social studies, it covers math, language arts, science, and social studies from pre-K through 12th grade with content that's engaging, personalized, and yes, actually fun. It's the perfect tool to keep learning going without making it feel like school. I actually used I XL quite a bit when I was teaching fifth grade. I used it for my students to give extra problems for practice, or sometimes I also used it to just check on what the standards

were in my state for any given topic in math or reading or writing. It's just a helpful tool all around for teachers, for parents, for students. I honestly do love it. Studies have shown that kids who use IXL score higher on tests. This has been proven in almost every state in the U.S. So if your child is struggling, this is a smart investment that you can make in their learning. A single hour of tutoring costs more than a month of IXL. Don't miss out. One in four students in the U.S. are learning with IXL, and IXL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get IXL now. And Podcrush listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL memberships when they sign up today at IXL.com slash podcrushed. Visit Iexel.com slash podcrushed to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Okay, Ariana, we do want to talk about Eternal Sunshine, which is a beautiful album.

I really personally love it. Thank you. You kind of combed through and you stripped things back for this record. Now looking back, is there anything that you didn't include that you wish you could have included? It's funny that you say that because I've been writing a little bit recently and a little bit. Release it. I've been living in the studio. I will.

Wait, really? I think I will. Yeah, I think I will. It's funny because I really thought that it was just a very concise body of work that is what it is. And I think forever in my head that is Eternal Sunshine is that album. But with time, I'm like, oh, maybe there are some new ideas that could be included. So I went to the studio the day after the met and I stayed for like 10 days. And I was literally living there and I felt like I woke up today and I felt like Austin Power.

is being unfrozen. I was like, where have I been? Where have I been? I love my reference, by the way. Yeah. I have not heard an Austin Powers reference in so long. I mean, that's the only thing I thought. That's how I felt.

I was like, what has happened? Yeah, I don't know. But yeah, I've been writing a lot and maybe there's some more, but I would like to do a deluxe at some point. So, yeah, I had an idea of doing. like two little mini ones or one big one and I'm still kind of deciding. But I think one, I think just one

and just like have it be like a few more little things and then be done. It's such a perfect album. I think it's like perfect and... Thank you. Never mind. I think that I need to put throw these away. No, no, no. I was so excited to hear more. But this album came out. I had gone to Scotland with Penn. Penn doesn't know this though. On a work trip.

We were developing a video. I didn't know it was work. Yeah, yeah. We were developing a video game together. Oh my God. Yes. Yeah, just wait until we tell you what it's about. We can't do it on tape, but...

Wait. Yeah, we will tell you after. But anyway, right before the trip, I had, like, made a very bold gesture toward someone, and it really didn't go at all the way that I thought. So the whole trip, I felt, like, sick. Like, sick to my stomach.

Oof. It was really a thing. But so my flight back was the day that Eternal Sunshine dropped. So I downloaded it. Didn't know you were going to be a guest on the show, but wanted to hear it, loved it. It was a 17-hour journey from Scotland to L.A.

And the entire time, oh, my God, I'm getting so emotional. I just listened to, I wish I hated you for 17 hours. And I was just like crying, crying. It was like so cathartic. And I don't think I've ever had that experience with a song of just like, I could listen to it for 17 hours. Which is so beautiful. Yeah.

So I wanted to thank you for that. Yeah. Thank you for sharing that. That's, first of all, sorry. Second of all, oh my God, that's like, so special to hear, you know, because it's like putting things like that out is so utterly terrifying. I really thought before Eternal Sunshine came out that I should hide when it comes out because it was, there was just a lot of soul exposure on it. And stories like that make it

feel so like that's why music is the most important, is such, is one of the most important things, you know. But that's so sweet and I'm sorry that you went through that. Yeah. But it really helped me process it and I feel like just like let it go faster. Yeah. 17 hours of morning and faster? Yeah. Love it. That's funny. Wow. Yeah. I'm never listening to it again. Now I can. Do you actually feel like like can you go back and listen to your music or is it once you're done with it? It's like I don't want to hear it anymore. No, it's interesting because sometimes

sometimes I like to listen to it I think in the process of making it I listen to only it and I'm like obsessive beyond beyond imagination like in a way that's like wow get help

but no you know I am sorry but certain ones certain ones I'm okay to not hear ever again but just because of just like what they hold

there's so much but certain other ones my relationship to them has changed over the years and through performing them as well. Certain ones that I necessarily didn't like as much as I like my favorites when I was younger have become so important to me because I love seeing what they do for the audience and what they have done for people and stories, literally stories like the one you shared. It changes my relationship to the music too. So it's constantly evolving.

It is. But Eternal Sunshine, I listen to some of Eternal Sunshine. Yeah, I do. It's so beautiful. You were filming Wicked as you were doing this album or this album was right after? No, so this album was right after. I was very, very, very separate during all of Wicked. I tried to not touch any ounce of music.

The one thing I did was the remix for Abel of Die for You. And it was towards the very beginning when we were still in rehearsals and not when we were filming. When we were filming, I was very, very, didn't want to know that that part of my life existed. I was very not even aware of it. A, because I was singing so differently, but also I just didn't want to know. I didn't want it in the room with me. I just wanted to be completely a different person.

And so, yeah, I was quite weird and intense, but during, I just was like, yeah, none of that. So I came home and I did it during the strike because I was like, what am I to do with this break? I went home and I saw my family. And then I immediately went to the studio after like two weeks with Nona and dad. Boca family and then I went to work on Eternal Sunshine and it came together quickly but

sometimes if it feels like it's coming out of you that way it's like don't question it I guess just kind of go with it but then once it was done the realization that people will hear it was terrifying but yeah no that was in between the strike and then finishing wicket in between From what I can tell, the most This isn't the only metric But the most streamed track From the album on Spotify Is we can't be friends

What do you think about that resonates the most? Like, you know, like what makes that Because there is something very universal Extremely poignant in it And I'm curious what you think that is. Well, I think I think the beautiful thing about

What has happened with that song is that it means something so different to everyone who listens to it and who hears it for some people it's about a romantic relationship for some people it's about a friendship for some people it's about like just being perceived at all by others and feeling not understood or like people don't get you or like this is like I think everyone kind of understands that feeling that is so hard to make peace with of like there's a version of me in someone else's story that isn't the one that I know is the one how is that

but it's something that every single person it universally applies to every single person so I think that's why I think it's kind of hard to process that and I don't know I think maybe it was just a song that people needed to hear at that moment it's like it can really be about whatever

is causing you a hard time anything you know it's I don't know I guess I don't know that's what I would assume but I don't No, I think you're right. I definitely think you're right. I hadn't even, for me, I hadn't distilled it yet to that most universal place. But I think it's true where everybody is a character in someone else's story. Yeah. And I mean, I feel like I can hear you writing about that. Right. And it's like I wish we could not give up on this dynamic. Like I wish we could have the closeness that we once had. But like if you're going to always, flip-flop like this and it's like or just you know I don't know for me it's it comes from like

that place I don't know but it's I interrupted and said something stupid but you know you're answering a question we're interviewing you that's a fair point no but yeah I don't know I guess it's

interesting because it can be interpreted in many ways was the thinking in casting Evan Peters first and then is it Is it a serial killer, a tour? Wait, I knew someone was going to say this. I knew I was going to be like, why the fuck?

What is this pattern? Do we need to talk about this pattern here? Maybe there's something to look at. No, I'm kidding. No, that's not on you. That's not our casting directors. No, but I was infatuated with serial killers when I was younger. Were you?

Mm-hmm. Well, put a pause on that. It's not nothing. Let's put a pause on that. I'm interested in that. It's not nothing. We'll put it on the shelf for a little. I'm serious.

Yeah, I feel like that's not uncommon. To be like true crime. Yes. Very that. But we'll come back to it. But I do have one thing. No, it's not funny. No, it's fine.

Will you remember where we are? We're never going to get through anything. No, tell us. It's been 17 hours. My leg is tingling. I lost track of time. No, no. Ariana is officially in the cage.

I am letting her out. No, but. My one thing aside is that years ago, before the Dahmer series, before it was in a Q&A with fans, with young fans. It was young fans at the time. I think it was like in between like me being cat and pop stuff. So it was like a younger group. But it was with a parent, someone said,

if you could have dinner with anyone living or dead, who would it be? And I was like, oh, you're so cute. Mom and dad, is it okay if I give the real answer? And they were like, sure, I guess. What's the answer? And I was like, I mean, Jeffrey Dahmer's pretty fascinating. I think I would have loved to have met him. Wow.

Like, you know, maybe with a third party or something else. But I have questions. I want to, I have a lot to, I don't know. I would love to. And the parents were like, we'll explain it later, sweetheart. And I was like, I'll just sing problem and go home. So a little bit of context, at least for you two, you know, At least your mother is very into whorber and this macabre kind of.

But not so, I wouldn't say not so morbid. From what I could understand in the world's longest 90-minute conversation we had, was, was. Horror. She's got to be. She loves Halloween. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I thought it was this very charming. There's an element of performance there.

She seems to love the, what would you call that? I feel like there's a really great word for it. It's not camp, it's something else. Thrill? Yeah, sure. The thrill of it. Yeah. And I just, I thought it was very interesting that your family seems, seems to have this, um, it's, it's like, it's, I imagine you, I imagine like before television it would have been, you would have, you would have gathered around a fire to tell stories. But in this, in this version, it's, because that's really theatrical. Yeah. Nothing is more campy than camping. Right.

Around a fire. And like, that's the most theatrical thing I've ever. Wow. Heart. Yeah. But hard. That's going to be a quote. Nothing is more camping than camping. No, but it really, it really. is. That's the campiest thing I've ever heard. Why are we doing this? And it's performative. That's ridiculous. Telling spooky stories around a campfire is the most theatrical. That's so true. And you know what's funny?

I really don't... Like, I... There's something about camp that I'm only learning to appreciate. Like, I really am not... Camp or, like, camp? Camping. We're just talking about straight camping. No. Sorry, go on time. I guess what I'm saying is that,

like even though it's not my sensibility, I really was charmed by your mother's interest in this like horror camp. Yeah. It's the best. And so I get, from when I get like, you know, she seems to have given it to her kids. You guys have this. Definitely. There's so much more we could ask about your album, but you also

gave such a great, like, track-by-track interview with Zach sang. That's true. Yeah, who cares. That's the only reason why. And we already tease the deluxe. Let's get out of here. Let's get out of album. Let's talk about Wicked. I've been, well, I love talking about Wicked. So this is the thing, this is a nice segue, actually, because I am not the demographic. I'm just not.

Given the fact that he thought it was defined gravity. I couldn't tell him. You did not marry the lead. No, no, and I'm, and I'm, when I saw that trailer. Oh, you saw it. Yay. I was just like, this looks amazing. Yeah, it's incredible.

This looks so good. Thank you. Like, everything about it. I haven't, I've only been to the movie theaters once since the past. pandemic and it was for nope um i really want to go to the theaters for this this is not i'm like i'm not a you know i don't i don't i don't pander yeah he doesn't i really i really i really think it looks so compelling and i have seen that i did see it on stage yeah was impressed because kind of like rent i was like don't know what i'm getting into here um you know and sacrilegious well no but but i'm

being honest about that like it's it's i'm not the demographic fair not everybody's in the demographic of these things. I did like it on stage because I thought the lore was interesting. Yeah. But it didn't necessarily, I still not the demographic. This looks to me like suddenly I am. It's so compelling. They've taken, it feels to me like they've taken, again, almost like the, maybe the psychology of the lore or something and brought it to life in this really cinematic way. So please tell us, like from the first moment. That's exciting. Thank you. You, You pursued this. Yes.

From what I understand, you pursued it like heavily, right? And I don't know why they weren't banging down your door. What? Because it's like something that's so, so, so must be earned. That's the thing. That's fair. That is the thing. This is like, I'm a wicked fan through and through.

And I was the first person to be like, the person who earns it needs to get it. I'm at peace with it if I don't get it. I know that this is in good hands by with Mark Platt and with John Chu. Like I trust these people. It's like Stephen Schwartz and ever. Everyone is heavily involved. I know it's going where it's meant to go. So I was begging for an audition.

I was not like, oh, you know, people, it's funny if anyone says that to me because I'm like, oh, then you don't know what is required of Glinda then. Then, you know, she has a long journey. And I think it's just something that is really special. And as much as the lore is sort of, it's so beautiful. I mean, it's the most stunning visuals and the sets were real practical sets and it's not as, you know, there's barely any C.I. Of course, we didn't. The flying monkeys, sure, they were, they weren't there. But, but the rest of it, these were real, like the biggest, like the most beautiful, elaborate sets and, you know, but it all really does fall on the relationship between these two women. And, and so that's a big, that's a big ask and that's a big to do. So I was very, very, very excited and grateful for the chance to even audition because I really just wanted a, you know, chance to prove that I should even be seen for it. So I was in, um, vocal lessons and acting lessons with Eric Vitro and Nancy Banks for, um, like months before my first audition because

Glinda's a soprano, like opera soprano, not in the way that I'm like a soprano and my pop. whatever. It's just a very different placement in the voice. And I was just training it and training it because even though like the notes were there, it's a different placement and it's like singing them completely differently. So I wanted to like train my muscles. It's like the same as any sort of training muscles in the body for a run or some, you know, an athlete would. It's the same kind of thing because the vocal cords and it's just muscles. So I would go every day and try to. to learn the tools that I needed to sing and to be Glinda through and through. I just wanted to know her really well. I didn't want to spend a lot of time practicing the actual scenes because I didn't like to be used to anything. I don't like to rehearse much other than like obviously needing to rehearse the scene. But I don't like to get stuck in choices.

So I just wanted to get to know her a lot. And I worked with Nancy Banks on the script. we read like the whole script not just the scenes or the sides to know her and ask questions and blah blah blah and I just wanted it so badly this is like the normal thing that you do when you prepare and you want something but I just

I just like really did so I did the work leading up and then I went in three times it was so fun but so like the most nerve-wracking yeah I was going to say did you feel nervous I felt like I was like a buzzy

like floaty but out of body and a good way. I just felt like really excited. I felt prepared and I felt excited and thankful to even be seen. I'm a huge fan of Johns anyway. So I was just so excited to see him again and like meet him in this context. And it was just so funny. And I love it. And I remember performing popular for Tiffany from Chelsea. And she had a mask on because it was still kind of, it was during like a little wave of it was like there was a wave of COVID and um I could see in her eyes that she was giggling and it was just the best thing and it felt special and I don't know it was fun and the waiting was so impossible yeah you mean what in between the call back and like then the screen test

the chemistry tests and and how long was that process do you think um I think the whole thing from my first audition to being cast was like three months three and a half months since like that. That's maybe too much. Maybe two and a half three. But that whole time you're just kind of like living in it. It felt like 95 years. Yeah. Yeah. And I had a little pink section in my closet. I bought a bunch of pink clothes just for Linda. Oh my gosh. I love that. Before you got it. Before I got it. You manifested. No, because I needed to be prepared. If she had to go for the callback, what was she going to wear? I was deciding upon on the day. Yeah. Underwear. Yeah. That's impressive. Ellen Green, when she did Little Shop of Hours.

said that she even chose her underwear based on what Audrey would have worn. And I was like, love that. That's, I love it. Yeah. Stick around. We'll be right back. Fall is in full swing, and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm, and save big, without compromising on quality. Quince has all the elevated essentials for fall.

Think 100% mongoling cashmere from $50, that's right, $50, washable silk tops and skirts, and perfectly tailored denim, all at prices that feel too good to be true. I am currently eyeing their silk miniskirt. I have been dying for a silk miniskirt. I've been looking everywhere at thrift stores, just like all over town. But I just saw that Quince has one on their website. exactly what I've been looking for, so I'm just going to click, put that in my cart. By partnering directly with ethical top-tier factories, Quince cuts out the middlemen

to deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish, and effortless. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash podcrush for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash podcrushed to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash podcrushed. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it?

Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time, everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom-N-N-N-N-D-U-D-U-D-U-N-N-D-U-N-Sense with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair, beef mash, lamb, pilaf, and turkey and chicken cookout.

I mean, are you kidding me? I want to eat these recipes. Each recipe is cooked gently in small batches to seal in vital nutrients and maximize digestibility. and their recipes are crafted by vet nutritionists. So I feel good knowing it's design with Louie's health and happiness in mind. Serve nom nom as a complete and balanced meal or is a tasty and healthy addition to your dog's current diet. My dogs are like my children, literally, which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best.

Hold on, let me start again because I've only been talking about Louie. Louis is my bait. Louis, you might have heard him growl just now. Louie is my little baby and I'm committed to only giving him the best. I love that Nom Nom's recipes contain wholesome nutrient rich food, meat that looks like meat and veggies that look like veggies because, shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough.

So he's a lamb-peelaf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with NomNum available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at Trinom.com slash podcrushed, spelled trinom.com slash podcrushed. August 2025 marks 20 years since Hurricane Katrina changed New Orleans forever. There have been many accounts of the storm's devastation and what it took to rebuild, but behind those headlines is another story, one that impacted the lives of thousands of children. Where the schools went is a new five-part podcast series. about what happened to the city's schools after the Levy's broke

and how it led to the most radical education experiment in American history. Hosted by Ravi Gupta, a former school principal, where the schools went traces the decades of dysfunction before Katrina and how the high-stakes decisions that followed transformed the city's school system. You'll hear from the voices of the people who lived it, from veteran educators who lost their jobs, to the idealists and outsiders who rushed in, to the students and families who lived through it all.

Whether you're a parent and educator or someone who cares about how communities and public systems can work together, where the schools went is a story you need to hear. From the branch, in partnership with the 74 and Midas Touch, where the schools went is out now. Find it wherever you get your podcast and start listening today.

Ari and I screamed when the trailer came out and there's the part where you're like hanging on a fan. Oh, yeah. It's just like, how can she, like, I actually just screamed. Like, I didn't know you were so athletic. Like, it's like we're going to see so many new sides of you. How was the physical training for the role? So fun.

I mean, we, like, I did Pilates every morning in the, whatever, leading up to filming. And then I, um, it was fun. I just loved the dance rehearsals, the physical training. And, um, I love stunts. Yeah. I love stunts. I love the things we're talking about, like finding Bruce. or scrapes later, like in the bath. I'm like,

it's all coming together. All of the things we've learned about you are coming to. But I love it. To me, it's like, oh, we did it. I was in it. We were in it. We felt it. Or we didn't feel it until the cut happened. But, you know, I don't know. I just, I love it. It was, it was really fun. I love talking about Wicked. But no, yeah, the ceiling fan, it's just so funny because I was like,

it's my intention to just do this for Alphabet to show her that, like, I'm strong and fun and I can do magical things too in my own way. It was so funny. Like I just am in awe of her, so I want to do something fancy for her. And that was it. That's crazy. That's really cool. It's funny.

Were there any songs that felt particularly difficult that you had to work on extra hard? I mean, you've been seeing, it sounds like you've been singing the music. Like operatically? Yeah. Yeah. I think obviously no one mourns the Wicked, which is the opening of the song, not obviously, because no one knows the show on the way that we do. The pen does, especially.

No one knows the show. No, but I think just sort of like the very classical operatic stuff. I wanted to make sure it sounded authentic. And so I trained really hard to do that stuff. Yeah, it was fun. At the Met Galley, you said that the first day of filming was the most emotional day of your life. Yes. And why?

What was it that made it like so emotional? It probably wasn't the most emotional day of my life. To be fair, I was on a red carpet and couldn't hear myself or anyone. I was like, it was so emotional. It really was, though. I think just kind of it was all, it was for the first time the two of us in costume

in the dorm room. The cameras are here. Like everyone is, we had rehearsed in those rooms. We had done a bunch of fittings. We had done the makeup test and the hair test and we'd done everything kind of separately. But it was just crazy because I was like,

I am looking at Alphabet and I'm Glinda. and today's the day. And it was like this wush of like, it was just so emotional. And John made the most beautiful speech about how special it is and how we need to save every minute

and keep it a safe space for everyone. And if someone's feeling or we need to stop a take or whatever, just everyone be open and be honest and vocal with each other. And he made it such a beautiful experience. He's so mindful of everyone. He treats every dancer, every single person, and everyone, like, their number one on the call sheet.

And it's like such a beautiful, beautiful thing to experience. I am spoiled for life because of how John conducted that set. That's incredible. Yeah, it was remarkable. It also looks like Cynthia delivered an incredible performance. Yeah, I'm spoiled. Talk about spoiled. Yeah, I was just thinking like the sort of bond. Because, you know, we've been talking a lot about how,

kind of the entrance into it is from music, from your, I mean, you know, you're just your whole career as a musician. But then there's this purely, there's part of it that's just acting. There's part of it that is just that, the rapport, the chemistry, the emotional relationship between you two. And I guess I'm just curious, like, you know, you said before that you loved, the experience of community, the aspect of communal, whatever that is, in acting before. And then you've gone into this pop star realm, which, I don't mean it.

No, that's what it was. It's in music, and then you became a pop star, so therefore it's just so singular for you, I would imagine. You're always just kind of like the one. And then you get to have this really rich, like, reciprocal. Yeah, yeah, I would imagine that that. that would just be so enriching and so welcome and so new in a way.

Oh my God, I'm not getting emotional again today. No, we're not doing it. But no, it really was because I think there's something baked into these roles where you're so different from one another that you never know how it can go when you're sharing this experience in a big way, in a very big way. And people have needs and people have their own creative process. And you never know, like, are we going to, is it going to, am I going to, you know, are we going to be healthy?

And it was just the most, like, symbiotic, beautiful. I feel so grateful to have done this with her. Sorry. It's just. sorry my god that can't be his campfire of ever been to but no um to work with someone who is just absolutely in their own league as a talent in the world there's no one like her she's an alien um and to just feel like we somehow speak the same language and somehow we're destined to do this together and to feel safe every day single day together and hold space we both have similar but different processes similar but different needs we're both opposite and the same and to have that the love that we have and trust that we have and um like really truly like deep love that we have for each other is like I think it

all kind of happened the way it did because of that and because we were supposed to be in each other's lives. I really do. Oh, my God, sorry. I love her so much. It's so beautiful. I really do. But like that's the thing. I know I have been changing for good is the thing everyone's going to save.

But really, I was a different person before we knew each other. Like we, I think, I hope, learned a lot from each other, but I learned so much as a person from her. And she loves hard. She is a Capricorn and she loves hard. and honestly and right and I just yeah I'm so thankful and it all falls on us like it all falls on us and we have to show up together every day and we need to get where we need to get emotionally spiritually vocally physically and we held the most generous space for each other every single day we laughed every single day we cried most days and um yeah i love her inexplicably but i'm gonna throw up

and like this is your tattoo for wicked yes and her performance is you're not you're gonna die i'm still dead it looks like it that's part i mean and your performance and we're gonna know you both look stunning yeah and see here's the thing me not being the demographic i don't really remember the story very well. It seems to be a unique process of transformation for that character, for her, for her character.

It's about, it's, it's, it's, also because she brought so much new to this alphabet as well. Sure, yeah. You know, she fought for certain, for certain elements of even just the physical appearance of, of, of, of this alphabet. That doesn't surprise me, because it just looks like she, like, when, when I, I didn't even realize who it was at first. And then when I was like, I was just like, oh my God, this looks, this looks like it's bringing to it things that I didn't know the story was about. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like I was just like, I was becoming emotional watching the trailer.

Oh, that makes me so happy. Because of her transformation as well, I was just like, man, this looks like it's doing a lot. I think that's also the gift of being able to do the screen version. Right. You know, I think that's so special to hear because it's like, that's to think why we needed to do it. you know but yeah we have for good on our things she has hers on this hand so we oh that's really cool that's so sweet

we can't end on a sweeter note than that I think we should ask the last question if you could go back to 8 to 9 year old getting hit by the puck no if you could go back to 12 year old Ari what would you say oh my god Oh my God, I don't know.

This is so intense. I think, listen to me. Hang on tight. We're going to make it back, but just don't be afraid to listen to me. I got you. You know? That's sweet. Yeah.

Or she would say that to me is what I think I interpreted what I meant. Yeah. wrong but meant something wrong answer but I'm more confused than when we began It's all about the roche point What I would tell her Is look for the roche point

The front of you is going to turn into spaghetti Yes Okay Your roche point is coming But you're going to circle something You're going to orbit something beautiful It's going to be worth it Thank you guys so much for this

This was so What a treat This was so fun and beautiful and my body's numb from sitting in the same position. No, but I'm so thankful and I really appreciate it. Thank you for being so thoughtful. And warm and nice. Well, part of that is the lights.

Yeah, true. You made me emotional. Should we take a second? No, I'm fine. I do. I have a question. to it. That kind of bridges are... I'm also a cancer.

When? July 17. Cute. What are you? What are you? I'm doing 26. Pisces. I love Pisces.

I knew this already. I knew this. You told me this. I'm just trying me. I'm playing. People are, I mean, I know this because I have a scorpion. My baby is a Scorpio. And whenever, like, people, when I was pregnant, people, be like this, what's going to be your star sign?

Yeah. And I would say, Scorpio. I learned to say it in Hush. because people were like, hold it in. Oh, God, I'm really sorry for you. I thought Gemini's and Virgoes were the two that people are a little bit. Pretty much every one of them, except for Leo. You just have to know the good ones of all signs.

Yeah. That's all. Yeah. You just said, yeah.