Podcrushed - Ben Platt

Episode Date: October 30, 2024

Ben Platt (the actor and musician from Broadway plays like Dear Evan Hansen, films like Pitch Perfect, and new album Honeymind) takes a break from winning awards to drop by the pod. From the time he got fully pantsed in front of his crush, to his wholly uneventful coming-out moment with his parents, to his early successes as a young actor -- the lol's and lessons are plentiful.    Follow Podcrushed on socials:Tiktok Instagram XSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada That's the thing that pushed me over the edge to be like, I better just tell my parents. So I called them from that trip before that there could be like someone else telling them and was just like, this thing happened and it's going to come up and I just want you to know, like, I have to tell you something. And my mom was like, is this about your sexuality?

I love it. It's like me. Yes. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava and I'm Sophie. And I think we could have been your middle school besties. Definitely not crying because all the cool kids are hanging out without us. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.

Welcome. Welcome, welcome, welcome, welcome to Pod Crush. Crush, crushed. Okay, that's about what I got. has it, he's still going. Penn might be extra excited because we're circling his birthday, November 1st, for those who celebrate Penn Dayton Badgley Day. Three names there.

You say I might be excited, which leaves the opportunity for me to not be excited. Yeah, it does leave the opportunity for you to not be excited. But I'm going to ask you a question that you can't evade. What is your favorite birthday cake? Okay, wait, okay, then out of all the sweets that you could have, what is your sweet? Okay, yeah. There's a thing, I think it's called a pastel denata. It's like a Portuguese egg tart.

And if they have raspberry in them, which some of them do. Those to me are just phenomenal. And if it could be like a bowl size one, I would absolutely take it. Penn, can you share your address so people can send you? Yes, I can. I love a triseletes cake. So good. Or anything with caramel, actually, also.

How about you? Love it. This is my grift. I want someone who knows how to make this to DM me, and I will give you my address so you can bring this to me. There was a cake that I had in Puerto Rico growing up. There was a baker called suzeria, which just means Swiss. And they shut down, and I've never found this cake anywhere else.

But every year my mom would buy me and my sister, the same cake. And so even for nostalgic purposes, I'm playing the dead mom card. Bring me this cake. It was basically like, so. The inside, exactly. The inside was white cake with, like, cream berries, but the outside was a thick layer of dark chocolate. Oh.

And between the cake and the dark chocolate layer was a layer of whipped cream. This is the best cake I've ever had. And I would love someone to make that for me. Wow. I've never heard of a cake like that. I've searched for it on the Internet for recipes. Like, I think it was just their thing, their specialty. Yeah.

Oh. For me, describing food is a little bit like when people tell you their dreams. It's like I'm trying to care but I'm like it's just so personal I can't. Don't give the fuck about that cake your mom bought you every year that you'll never get again because she's down and the bakery shut down. Happy birthday.

Oh it's so funny. Oh, too good. Anyway, today we have Ben Platt. Actor you might know from films like Pitch Perfect the TV show The Politician on Netflix back in 2019 on broadway however is really his his home it's the summit of the mountain for him

which at the top of which he is a kind of king the book of Mormon and then the titular role in dear evan hanson uh brilliant doing performance ben is a musician whose third album honeymind was released earlier this year to critical acclaim he keeps getting accolade after accolade a grammy a tony a daytime Emmy, a Golden Globe nomination, another Grammy nomination this year. We loved having him on. You'll love him too. Please, why don't you stick around? Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored?

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Learn more at trinom.com slash podcrushed, spelled trinom.com slash podcrushed. Why do we do what we do? What makes life meaningful? My name is Elise Loonen and I'm the author of On Our Best Behavior and the host of the podcast, Pulling the Thread. I'm pulling the thread. I explore life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves, others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to pulling the thread from Lemonada Media wherever you get your podcasts. We like to start at 12 years old. Give us a snapshot.

What was daily life like school, home, and how you were seeing the world kind of as an artist? Wow, okay, so 12 years old, I was in seventh grade. I was pretty young from my grade. so I would turn like my age and I'm a September birthday so I would I always kind of remember grades by what I turned at the start of the year so I was yeah in seventh grade for when I was 12 and I was at a Jewish day school um called Sinai Akiba uh which I went to from like preschool through eighth grade um and it had like 40 kids in my grade super small class and so you knew everybody very well knew everybody really well most had been there since we

were kids, you know, a couple of fly-ins and fly-outs, but mostly, like, kids I'd grown up with. And it was, like, a few blocks from my house, so I would walk to school a lot. And I'm one of five siblings. And at that point, I think only my oldest sister had left to go to college. So I had my two older siblings still there in high school at a different school where I was dreaming of going eventually and then did go. And then my younger brother, who's like about six years younger than me, was in the elementary school with me. So we would go at school together. And I had started working when I was like nine. So I had spent a lot of years playing like the little boy in, in a series of musicals and was used to being like, did you do the music man at nine years old?

I did. At the Hollywood Bowl? I did. Did you play Winthrop? I did. I played Winthrop at nine years old. In a church basement. No way. It was my entrance into the opening night. I turned to my mom, evidently, she says, and I'm sure it's true, but I don't remember it. I said, this is what I want to do for the rest of my life. Wow. You know, yeah.

So we share at least that. Winthrop is a gateway. But yeah, so I had done, like, a lot of jobs at that point where I was, like, the sweet little kid. And, like, that's the only version of, like, at work that I knew or, like, being a part of, like, the real thing was like playing like the little boy among adults and 12 is right around the time where like that's not it anymore so I it was the beginning of a time where like it wasn't there wasn't as many opportunities because my parents didn't really want me to be like a TV or film actor as a kid they want to be like stay in school and have like a normal relatively

normal upbringing so they would allow me to go out for theater that would be like for chunks of time or during the summer but they didn't they didn't want me to like fully inundate until I was done with high school. So I was just mostly focused on actually going to school and doing in school theater, which at my Jewish Day School was really abysmal and not good. But I had a theater program called the Adderly School that I went to my whole life that I was still going to at 12.

That was like a once a week after school program where I met most of my friends. Because by then, you know, in middle school, like I had some friendships at my day school, but I was the only, I wasn't out yet at that point, but I was like pretty much the only queer kid in my school and the only boy certainly interested in like theater and the arts and didn't really have my like people there.

I had like some girlfriends and a couple of guy friends, but I didn't have my like soul people, I think. And so when I went to like weekly theater camp, that's where I think fully was able to like come out of my shell and find my other sort of freaks that really were like, really like me. Ben, I'm curious. You come from such a big family and your dad is obviously, I mean, one of the like most legendary Broadway sort of has given so much to that community. How do you relate to all of your siblings and has your relationship with your dad sort of sharing that?

Well, my siblings, with my siblings, it's like our first shared language was like musical theater and so that was shared among all the siblings. Yeah, it was more of like a love and a hobby and a pastime that we all shared and like a shared language is something to be enthusiastic about that we could all give each other trivia about and do shows in the backyard and it was a really nice kind of bonding language more so than like a shared career or anything like that and then with my dad you know he he's my dad first and foremost but you know I I just really admired him I think I mean he is a very just like creatively brilliant guy and I think I was the sort of greatest privilege to me of being a nebo baby was like just getting to experience you know what it's like to create a musical and how

hard that is and how many iterations it goes through and how what a reading is like and a workshop is like and how do you cut things down and figure out what works and in a real musical that's like truly great how does the song forward the plot and what is a song that's, you know, worth having and what's a song that's just a good song but doesn't really change the evening. Just understanding the form and the way that it works, I think was the, was the gift of that. And just to have a mentor who I trust in terms of, you know, running things by him or asking for advice or understanding, you know, what types of artists to be seeking out. And it was just a really nice thing to bond over. And I think he was very, you know, trepidacious about my

wanting to be in the business because he knows how horrible and difficult it is. And we've all learned that, I'm sure, in different ways. And I certainly learned that. But I think as he saw that my passion for it was really met by just a drive and a work ethic and an ability and an affinity to back it up and that I really did have a shot at doing it. And that I really did have a shot at doing it. He obviously wanted to support my, my dream and my passion. And so allowed me to pursue it and didn't necessarily stand in the way. But I think there was definitely some nervous about going into that because I get that. I mean, for your kid, I would imagine if I were to have children at some point that unless it was the only thing they could imagine themselves doing, I might say, like,

wouldn't it be fun to be like a teacher or like something where like you're not being absolutely least sort of skewered at every turn. Doesn't that sound fun? My husband and I are both artists, and we just had a baby. That's who you heard in the beginning. And we just whisper into her. Congratulations. Thank you.

But periodically, we just go, be a lawyer. But Ben, I'm curious, was there a moment for you? Like Penn had, like he described with playing Winthrop, was there a moment where you thought, like, okay, this is more than just like a shared language between me and my siblings. This is more than just something we love to do in the backyard. For me, it's something I want to do forever. That's a great question. I mean, I think I was a pretty introspective kid from what I understand. And I think I had some trouble like coming out of my shell and connecting in other arenas. And when I would be in a setting

of doing theater or performing or singing, it's where I was able to really like open up and like feel fully in the moment because I think I've always been a rather worried, like, anxious person and that has only grown as I've gotten older. So I think it was just always like a respite in that way for me. Like for others, I know that there's like a lot of anxiety and stage fright and pressure that comes with performance. And for me, it's so gives me the opposite sensation. It's like, it's like, even before you don't, you have like the opposite of nerves. You're just like, all right, I'm about to, I'm about to relax. I'm about to relax. It's going to be great. Let's go. Of course nerves. Of course nerves. But only the like, I'm alive. I'm excited.

kind of nerves, not the like this is going to be a disaster. I have that about life, but not about... That's great. I just knew it in that extent. And then I think when I knew in terms of like understanding that it's a job and a like life you can pursue as like your thing you always do, I did a show when I was 11, so I guess right before we technically start at 12 called Carolina Change, which is a musical that Janine Tessori and Tony Kushner wrote

that George Wolf directed. It was a really beautiful, strange, complicated, musical about this young Jewish kid who's sort of like, it's semi-autobiographical about Tony Krishna. And growing up in the 60s in Louisiana and the maid that works in his home and her whole life and her inner life and her internal struggle and the relationship that this young Jewish kid and this black maid have. And it was played by Tonya Pinkin's and she was brilliant. But it was the first piece that I did that had a lot of like complication and character. interest and was like a little atonal and um just like had a lot more elevation artistically as opposed to like you know music man is beautiful and camelot and sound of music are wonderful but like

you're kind of coming in and being cute and like that's the whole vibe but with this it was like slander music man here in this house no actually i honestly i look back on it and i like hate that kind of musical so it's all good i love it when it's done well it's it's magical and it's transportive. But yes, I think it was the first time it was like I realized not only that you could have so much complicated choice as an actor and like create a character and there can be sadness and anger and like that so much can exist in it and that it can be a real art form in that way, but also that I had the ability and the instinct and the desire to do that and that that kind of I don't know that like I kind of took ownership of my ability I think in that show. And that was

when I was like, oh, this feels satisfying in the way where like, not only do I love this and does this make me excited, but I do think I'm good at this. And I can, if I keep doing it and like put my blinders up, I think I'll just get better at it. So that's, after I did that show, I think I was pretty like fully smitten. And how old were you then, you said? 11. Oh, geez. I was thinking it was a bit late. Okay. Wow. That's, yeah. I mean, look, you have, I want to give you your flowers for a moment. I mean, um, um, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, your your talent is is tremendous like i mean you know i even just rewatching bits of um the film version of dear evan hanson just now i mean you know your your ability is so like immediately

touching did theater become uh like a salve a refuge did it give you a confidence that you wonder like where else would i have gotten it yes to 100 percent because i think you know, particularly as a queer person or like a queer kid trying to figure that part of myself out, I think before you can even name what that is or why you feel that sort of separation, you just feel like on a little bit of a different wavelength, especially because when you're younger, there's so much like binary in school and at like summer camp and in everywhere that I was. It was like I was being encouraged to hang out with the other boys. And it's like I just had so little in common with. them and so that i think brought me further and further in into myself and so you know i i had a a really loving family and wonderful parents so i don't think necessarily like i was like emotionally stunted it was more just that i as an individual particularly trying to differentiate from such a large family so many siblings and just to really find my own identity i don't think i necessarily had any other space where i felt uh that i could like fully flower until i found that

space because that was where I obviously was too young to make the connection but that difference and that queerness was so directly related to like what was making me able to or what was like making things extraordinary or was making things artistically fulfilling or it just felt like it kind of like went together really beautifully and so I think yes I I certainly think it's where I learned about just like letting things out and and like not not bottling up or appeasing. I'm also like Libra. So I'm like, I'm very, I'm very much a mediator and I tend to people please and want

to, you know, want to de-escalate and I'm very non-confrontational. And my husband will tell you that to a fault, I'm very non-confrontational. So like, I think it was the place where I felt like brazen and like able to like express anger and take up space and, you know, be selfish and be, you know, just I think it, yeah, it just opened like a lot of positive floodgates. as long as they're checked by others around, they remain positive. But yes, positive.

Yeah. We do like to get into people's like first crush or first love and first heartbreak, and we'd like to hear your experiences. Oh my God, of course. Well, when I was like 12, 13, I had some crushes on, I have this album that I put out called Honeymind that came out a couple months ago and it has a song on it. Thank you.

It has a song on it called Andrew, which is about like when you're young and you develop a crush on a straight guy and it's so hopeless because it's like he didn't do anything wrong and he's not like teasing you or anything it's just like the chemistry is not there and you don't know what to do with these feelings then they have nowhere to go and it's like this weird kind of melancholy so most of my first experiences were that of like this this like cute boy named David who in seventh grade who was like had abs and was like so cute and like and like the boys couldn't have been straighter yeah I know it's like all of a sudden you're like that's a thing

thing we can do. And I was like, you know, lots of butterflies for David, but obviously unrequited because he was straight. And this kid Robert, same thing, like lovely, really kind to me, really nerdy and smart, but like ultimately straight. The first time that it was like something connected was I was, I think 13. And I was at summer camp. And there was one other queer kid who I started to realize was the other queer kid.

And his name was O's Fishman. and he was like way more experienced and like knew a lot more about stuff than I did and was like flirting before I even understood that that's what he was doing and like I got this feeling of like I should spend more time with him and I should find time to be alone with him but I don't know why. That's a funny description of middle school. It's true. And so I kept trying to find, which is hard at summer camp when there's counselors all the time.

So I kept trying to find moments to be alone. And then this one day we like skipped, I think it was, I'm sure it was sports, but we skipped some like programming for the day and like stayed in the cabin and like snuck, snuck back to like hang out. And he, and that's when he kissed me for the first time. And I was like, I was like all at once, like, no idea this was coming. Like I didn't know this is a thing people do. Like this feels bizarre.

I don't know how to do this. And also like absolutely what I was hoping for in waiting. for and why I stayed back. You know what I mean? It's the kind of thing where you're like, if they had asked me 10 minutes before, it had been like, I don't know. I'm just like, I have butterflies. And he, like, I don't want to go to sports. Like, I want to stay. But I think as soon as it happens, you're like, oh, my, my, I've been leading myself to this. So that was my first, like, nice relatively, relatively undramatic, sweet little moment. What happened in the moments after?

I freaked out. And our counselor came in. like pretty soon after so we didn't have much time to like also when you're that age you like kiss like for 30 seconds and then you're like okay i know that's that's what i'm imagining 30 seconds bro this is a long time i feel like there's always always was experienced together it's like what do we do i guess we go back now literally literally it was just like let's walk back to everyone else and then kind of every successive summer after that since we were consistently the only career people in our age group, we would just like pretend we weren't going to do it for the whole summer and then towards the end be like, I guess we're just going to like make out again because we're the only ones here. But it was a nice on track to the rest. I'm curious coming home from that that outing, literally and figuratively, like at camp, the nerves of returning home and feeling like you've really entered this new phase, nerves about like the reception

of your family. I mean, I'm not saying that you had to go run out and tell them, but you know what I mean? Totally. Absolutely. I think as I started to figure it out and as we had a kiss and all this, I was like, I already had a sense and I had already like maybe like said something to like a couple of my friends who were my contemporaries, but like I hadn't talked to my family about it. And at that point I was like, okay, well, this is now going to become a thing. And I think for me, I mean, I again, like, as you said, I grew up in a really privileged situation where I was like theater people and I knew gay people from my birth and like I just, it was not a

taboo and it was not something that felt like how could I possibly be like that? It was like, oh, like that's, I'm like that. So I think it was never for me, the trepidation of telling my parents was never about like what's going to be their reaction or are they going to be accepting. It was more like it's so awful and uncomfortable to even broach the fact that you're like a sexual being

with attraction to your parents. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. Like regardless of whether it's, you know, a woman or a man or a non-binary person, whatever. Like, I think that was the thing that was like, oh, I don't want to do this. But then I went on a class trip in eighth grade. So this was the year after that summer where I had my first dallions.

And I had told a couple of my friends at that point. And on the trip, some of the other kids in my class I'd heard about it. And there was this, like, incident that I remember so much of. but what I gather is that like it was it was perceived by the like teachers and chaperones as like a bullying thing but it really was not where like there was this guy who was like telling me that he was so jealous of me because like I was gay and therefore all of the girls would like tell me all of their who they liked and they would let me like hang out with them and they're like hotel rooms on the trip and they would like confide in me and he was like I'm so jealous like because I like you're gay you get to do whatever blah and it was just like true like all my friends were girls and like they were telling me all the tea. and like that it was not him it was not him being like you're a faggot or anything like that so like I did not you know I didn't want it to be perceived the way that I could feel it was about to be perceived and so that's the thing that like pushed me over the edge to be like I better just tell my parents so I called them from that trip before that there could be like someone else telling them and was just like this thing happened and it's going to come up and I just want you to know like I have to tell you something and my mom was like is this about your sexuality? It's like, yes. So they knew. They were like not surprised.

They were like, we have all these books that we've already been reading. Aw. That's so touching. That's really touching. Yes. And one can only hope that that is more and more so the norm of this sort of non-event until there's no event whatsoever, really. Stick around. We'll be right there.

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theater program and we were doing I think Funny Girl was the show we were doing. I forgot what show we were doing but the day after the show you have like a cast party celebration which was a pajama party and I was like this is right around 12, 11 or 12

and I was like oh it's a pajama party so I'm going to come dress the way that I sleep which is that I wear a big t-shirt and I wear my Shama pants but I don't necessarily wear undergarments when I go to sleep so I'm wearing wearing just pajama pants and t-shirt

and we play one of the activities of the days we're playing like some sort of like reved up version of duck duck goose where there's like some you have to like do a dance dance or something when you get chosen and so this guy

then I have a crush on his name was Deakin who was in the cast was like the picker and he like picked me to run and I like get up to run and then my friend who's sitting next to me is like holding onto my pants and trying to keep me down

because like it's like a team game where you're like trying to keep me from getting up A full pantsing happens, a full exposition. Just really horrible. I literally can put myself on the moment. I know exactly the pair of pants. I know the giant t-shirt, the purple t-shirt. I like, I can smell the room.

That's so amazing. I'm obsessed with the fact that you were like, well, in reality, I don't wear underwear. So I have to do that for this. I was committing to the theme. that's amazing i do want to hear just a just a little bit about that transition into because you know it's like coming out of this period um yes like i want to go right from you in that room in the giant purple t-shirt to high school and college and like when it sounds like you know by the time you're what 15 16 17 you you i would i would assume you've embraced your your kind of

station as as an actor as an artist you're pursuing it you you want like so when was it like I'm finally free to go and what were you doing? Yes, so I finished eighth grade and I went to high school at this place called Harbor Westlake in L.A., which is where I completely came alive.

All of my best friends to this day are from my time at Harbor Westlake in the theater program there. And it was like where I became a full monster in terms of my like being a theater kid. And just like, like I said, my parents really did. want me to pursue it during high school. They wanted me to go and have the high school

experience, especially because it was such a academically and also artistically great, rigorous place where I had, it was awesome. I really loved it and the musicals were great and there was great acting class. I was on the improv team and a choir and I just couldn't have asked for more and it was like a pig and shit just like loved everything about it. And so I went, that's where I like really started to like learn and I had this amazing teacher who passed away a couple years ago. His name's Ted Walsh, who was like the head of the program, and he was an amazing acting teacher and taught me, really took help to me to get to that next level of like being treated as a professional and understanding the craft and how to play roles as a grown person and

just learned so much and found my tribe. And, you know, I know I'm in the minority, but like absolutely loved high school. But again, I was told not to really pursue. And so I just kind of was like storing up all this enthusiasm and trying to get better and taking voice lessons and whatever, et cetera. And so then I finished high school and I was supposed to go to Columbia. I was accepted to Columbia the summer before. And my whole family had all gone to Penn. My three older siblings went to Penn. My younger brother later went. Both my parents went. They met at Penn. So it was sort of like assumed that I was going to continue that pipeline. But I just was so certain that I wanted to get to New York and start doing theater that I was like, my parents were like, we're not going to let you not go to college, but you can go to

college in New York if you want. So I was like, great. So I'm going to Columbia. So I was like, I got to get into Columbia. So I did the SATs, blah, blah, blah. Got into Columbia. And then like two weeks before I was supposed to go, like in the middle of August, I got this audition for pitch perfect, which I wasn't usually going out for much on camera stuff, but because it was musical and comedic and college age kids. Like it just was too, it fit too many boxes to at least throw my hat in the ring. And I was like, I've never been in a film. This isn't to happen but let's just try before I leave and so I went in and I went in again and again and after like three or four times I got the part and so my parents were like okay so you can defer for a

year like your friend like as long as it was like a familiar pipeline to them they were okay so they were like your friends have taken gap years like you can take a gap year that's fine and you can work on this film it's a great opportunity and so they let me do it and so I did the I sort of like so basically to answer your question long winded the this like two months after I got out of high school, I was, like, free to start, and I really just started. And so then I did the film, ended up doing a bunch of theaters throughout the rest of that year, and then, like, planned to go back the following fall, and I went to, like, three to four weeks of classes, and then I got Book of Mormon until I left again.

And then at that point, I was like, to my parents, I was like, this, I'm not, I'm not. Before we get into this specificity pitch perfect, which I know everybody's just waiting, waiting, waiting for. I do want to ask, what about musical theater really, really did it for you, you know, and why you weren't? And if you ever thought, oh, I'll try this, I'll try that. Like, what about, you know, what about it? It's a good question. I think it's a combination of, like, being born an empty vessel that gets, like, filled with Broadway and show tunes and just, like, growing up on it and loving it from the beginning. And also just, it combines everything that I like to do.

that I have the ability to do, which is acting and live performance and creating a character, but also very much singing as equal love of mine and being a vocalist and a sustainable vocalist and singing every night. And I think like putting all of those things in one just is satisfying to me in a way that that is more. I mean, I love picking those things apart and doing them individually too, but the idea of put it. But what you said is right, it's like very rarely exceptional. Like part of what I love a musical theater too is the challenge of like trying to do something great because there's a lot of

crap. Like there's a lot of bad musical theater. I mean there's a lot of bad film too. There's bad. But there's a lot that's unreal. Like incredible. Yeah. It's it's because there's so many different things that have to converge for it to really transcend. Like the score and the book and the performances and the design. It's like so much has to come together for the lightning in the bottle to happen. So that when it does,

it's like to me more magical and transcendent than like anything because it's just like so unlikely that all those things would actually work so it's true i agree with you that it is transcendent and it is unlikely i'm fully with you and and i mean it's easy it's easy to say to you because you've done it like you've done that exceptional things i just again want to commend you on i mean i have so many questions about your album i was listening to before i knew you last night which is Oh, I could listen to it over and over and over. I did listen to it over and over and over again. It's like, it's an epic love song.

And I have to imagine that it's about Noah, your husband. And I was so curious when I was listening to it, like, what's your process for sharing, that kind of thing? If you write music for or about him, what's your process for sharing that with him and what's his reaction like? Well, I, it's a good question. So much of this album is about Noah, like most of it, because I just. just couldn't help writing a bunch of sappy love songs about him, but I think that, like, the nice thing about

one of the hundreds of nice things about being with Noah is that he's an artist too, and we've collaborated before we made this movie pitch perfect together, and we like to give each other, I mean, sorry, theater camp, and we like to, whoa, whoa, what? Oh my God, no, I wish. That would have saved us both a lot of times

if we did it fitch perfect. No, theater camp. but we we really like to you know critique each other and give each other you know constructive criticism and notes and we look at each other stuff as writers and so we're used to that uh dynamic and how to like make sure that when we come to each other we're being clear about like I just want your support as like my partner as a champion I want you to just like cheerlead for me or like what do you really think of this um and so for me with songs that are about him it's like it really depends on the song and also where I'm at with it.

Like I went into the project of writing it being like I'm because I could I sort of knew it was going to be largely about him that I was like, I'm going to go make this up in private with my collaborators and like get it finished and then bring it to him and like a bow and be like, this is for you. But I just love downloading and working on things and hearing the opinions of Noah like too much to wait for that. So I like wrote the first one or like had a demo of the first one and was like, okay, I'm playing it for him right away.

So I think once essentially it was like the pattern became like I'll play it for you as just an initial like here's this love letter that I've been working on for you. And I just want you to hear my thoughts about our relationship, whatever and like take that in. And he's not great at taking compliments. And so he gets like a little flustered. But I know I know that deep down he enjoys hearing me, you know, play songs for him. But once we're past the like first listen of like this is the sentiment I wanted to show. with you, then we get to listen to it and talk about it as like, what do you think of the chorus and you think it needs a bridge and what do you think about this guitar? And he can like get in

the weeds with me more as an artist friend. But I think he's gotten more and more comfortable over the course of our relationship. I'm a much more earnest, sappy, sort of like mushy person than he is. And I like to sort of sit in like sweetness in a way that sometimes he is not his like natural state he's like a lot more sardonic and much more of a realist and he's incredibly emotionally communicative like to a fault his parents were both analysts but like he he's like you know just not necessarily as like um as musheef or doesn't doesn't live as in that place from the start um but i think being with me over the course of these last years has like gotten him more and more comfortable being in that space so now i think he likes listening to

the songs um that are about him and He has really no choice because like most of them are about. I heard you tell the story of how you came up with the name of the album. And for our listeners who don't know, I think it's a great story. If you wouldn't mind sharing it here. Yeah, of course. Noah and I enjoy mushrooms. And so we went to this place called Mohawk Mountain on upstate New York,

which is a really pretty like hike. So beautiful. So beautiful. And eight. some beautiful mushroom chocolate, the rest of which my dog ate while we weren't home. His stomach bumped, of course, and he had to get an ivy, but he's totally fine. He's over there, sleep. Ever since he's been real chill.

Yeah, he's just like, really. This gives you a nod. He told us to paint our door yellow. We were like, okay. So we ate some chocolate. we were walking around talking and, you know, just laughing and enjoying each other and nature, et cetera, blah, blah, blah. And we got into like a sort of usual mush, mushy, sweet mushroom field conversation about

just our relationship and just what it does for each of us. And as I mentioned, I'm like a very anxious person and I tend to live a lot in my head and a lot in like what's ahead and what has what I'm regretting or what's past as opposed like being where I am and so I started to tell him that like part of what was making me feel so happy and so giddy other than being on mushrooms was the idea that like being with him and that our love that we have really makes me love the present enough that I want to be here for it and that it's like over it like overrides wanting to be elsewhere and I started to talk about like the image of what the inside of my mind looks like in terms of like anxiety and stress and

stress and I started to think about like all of the like sharp and like jagged stuff that's like pointing and like getting at each other's way and and like crowding your head and and then I was like being with you or being in love doesn't necessarily make those things like disappear it doesn't like fix everything and like those those all still exist and you have to like deal with them but it does like make it all a little less like hot and angry and like it's like a little bit softer and like a little bit sweeter and like it's sort of like I started to say like it's sort of like it's sort of like coats everything with like this like sweeter easier to take like and he was like honey and I was like yeah it's like it's like there's like my mind is like coated in honey and then I

started to think about honey and honey mind and as like a phrase and he was like that's a really interesting phrase he just write a song about that and so I wrote this song called honeymind that's on the record and then when it was time to pick the name it sort of seemed like a nice encapsulation of kind of the feeling of the album and also just like what his his our relationship does for me and and what being in love feels like. And that was honey, anyway. That's a beautiful sentiment.

I love that. Yeah. I love the idea also that it doesn't necessarily, like being in love or finding your person doesn't necessarily take away anxiety because we are who we are and sometimes like that's who we are. But that it can like coat it in honey. Like it can code it in something soft that can like protect, you know, the other parts of our mind.

I think that's so beautiful then. Speaking of your, the jagged edges. in your mind. Segway coming. Yeah. I want to bring us back to dear Evan Hansen. Yes. Where you play a character who is very anxious.

In need of honey. And very sweet, yeah. I wonder what it was like for you to embody that character. Did you feel it was helpful to draw on the parts of yourself that you might see in him? Or did you have to draw from other places as well? What was that like? Yeah, I mean, I think I was young enough. When I was developing it and doing it on stage, it was from like 21 to 24 years old, something like that.

So I was, I think young enough that I, that like self-preservation wasn't necessarily so on my mind in terms of like this was like my dream, absolute dream to create a character in the musical theater like we were talking about in a piece that has the ability to like really be a great musical. and such a great showcase of a role and get to try and do all the different things I like to do. And I think I was so filling to me as a person and like such a dream come true on like a personal passion level that like it properly counteracted the more like emotionally difficult elements

of like living in that headspace and playing that kind of character who is, you know, anxious and depressed and deals with self-harm and low self-esteem and, you know, not necessarily like the most pleasant. world to live in, but because I was so in love with the art of the doing of it, that it was a nice counterpart. But I think I didn't necessarily realize until after I was done or when I was getting ready to leave and feeling like I really needed to stop, that I took so much, I guess,

like, joy and solace in how similar I felt to the character in terms of, like, you know, it was so gratifying to do a show where anxiety is portrayed in that way because I was such an anxious person and I know that there were so many young people particularly at the time of the show that felt like it hadn't been expressed in that way or felt very seen by it. And so that was such a beautiful part of the experience. And I loved that my sort of personhood was so part of it in that way. But I think that the like blurring of that, I think I realized more towards the end that I needed to like really separate myself because I think Evan exists in a way more intensified space than I do. And so it was sort of exacerbating the things that I already had

like the seeds of that if I were to take a step back and just focus on myself weren't necessarily as prevalent or kind of out of control as his experiences. But because I was devoting so much time over the course of those few years just to really his mind space and his experience, that sort of just to blur a little bit. And that that became the kind of primary concern as opposed to like what parts of this are actually affecting me. And so by the end of it, I think, as a gorgeous of an experience as it was, and it opened all the doors for me. And it's why we're here talking and why my career has continued. Like, I, I was really, like, ready to reinvest in, like, my own perspective and my own emotional health. And it inspired me to start writing earnestly from my own perspective and to

write music. And that's when I put my first album out. So I think it was, like, a ephemeral in the way that great theater should be where it was like not sustainable to do for any longer because it was just a really highly emotionally intensified story and and headspace but also um while it lasted was such a meaningful bright burning experience but was was ready to to make the character separation by the end i how long was that run for you so i did the i did about three or four readings of it i did three workshops and then I did a production in DC that was a three month run and then an off Broadway production that was a three month run and then a Broadway production that was a year. So the whole from like from like opening the book. Exactly. That's a lot to do every night.

Yeah. And that show is so intense. So but I love musical theater and I lived in New York for five years and my dad would come visit me and we had this tradition. I made like no money when I lived there. So we had this tradition when he would come visit his gift. for the visit would be he would buy me three tickets to a Broadway show. We would go together. So we saw a lot, like over the time he lived there. Yeah, it was really sweet. Some of my most cherished memories.

But we went to see Dear Evan Hansen together. You weren't in the role. The next person had sort of taken it on. I can't remember his name. But I didn't know what it was about. I just knew that one of my friends had been like, you have to see Dear Evan Hanson. She knew that my dad and I had this tradition.

And oh my God, it's the most visceral experience I've ever had of like trying not to sob. and by the time we hit intermission my dad was like looking at me like he was moved but he couldn't like figure out exactly what was happening with me because I was sort of like shaking in the chair and then when the intermission hit I just it was like a catharsis like I've never had an experience like that

and I really felt at the time I wasn't working in media I was at the UN but I remember having this little seed of like if I could make something like this which is so beautiful executed at such a high level it's so meaningful I would want to work in media like it was like one of the first times that I had that seat of a thought. And I was at the premiere of the film. You were there

with Julianne Moore and the rest of the cast on a panel. And I felt like the critics, some of the critics had just been like, I mean, having a field day being cruel and snarky. And the memory that I have is, I'm sure you were affected by that and you seemed visibly affected by it, but all of your castmates, anytime someone, I don't know if you remember this, but

anytime someone would ask them a question, they would just redirect to talk about how amazing you were. It was like they were really rallying around you. And it was so moving. And I felt like the critics had been really unfair. And as someone who had seen the play, like, of course, I wanted to see you. Probably just the world. Like, I wanted to hear it in your voice.

And I felt like you had earned that. And I personally loved the movie, but I just wanted to share that. Thank you. That's really nice. Well, if I can say having never seen the play or your performance on the stage there, but having seen the film, your performance is, like, is phenomenal. That role on camera is not a frigging easy role for anybody. And you're singing live, which I think.

think is it's not appreciated how how rarely that's done i mean what you're doing is like so incredible it's so moving so i guess like i just have a broad question um i mean by the way the thing about the critics it's like critics aren't just being unfair in that case i think that's that's the case where it's like why do we have critics i'm sorry what's the value here what is the purpose what is the function they're serving it's just so beyond and it was so disconnected from the reality of it yeah like what the fuck i just that to me anyway so but because your performance in it is so incredible and I was thinking again rewatching it

I was like I'm just really curious like was it gratifying for you to find to reprise the role but only briefly essentially once and like do it in the real world and was it were you like wow I'm like rediscovering this and I'm finding new things or was it like oh I've done this so many times

it's so easy to tap into and I'm just here you know it's a good question and I don't think anyone's asked me that on a personal level like I was very afraid to return just because as I said by the end I was like really anxious and eager to really uh separate myself and and to not get back into that mind space but I think uh I has seen firsthand just like what the story did for people all people of all different kinds and ages but particularly young people and and people young people who felt on the outside in some way

or just that felt like they hadn't been understood or seen and just really got a lot of letters and interactions and things that made it so tangibly real for me like the power that the story had. And so the idea of like having there be a version of it that would live in immortality and always exist that any young people could see that was like, that felt so important enough to want to go back

and dive back into it. And then in terms of like the gratifying actualization, like yeah there was something beautiful about getting to say like a final farewell to a story and a character that had been so formative to me and have it be the like the full realization for the last time like to get to sit in the in the dining room with the Murphy family and speak to them at an actual dinner table or like you said get to look at the tree that he maybe climbed and you know tried to take his own life and to yeah to really see those those things that I had imagined in my head for hundreds and hundreds of shows to come to life one more time

in a full way to say goodbye to them. That was certainly special and gratifying. So I think it was definitely a mixed bag. And it was also one of the very, very first productions during COVID. It was in the fall of 2020 that we shot it. So it was like, you know, the most isolating and stressful and like very, like the experience of a movie sometimes can be like a fun family building like community type of thing and this was just a very much not I mean my co-actors were wonderful and were lovely to each other but it was the kind of thing where you like you go to work you go home you not allowed it to go to the market to the park to the restaurant like you just it was very which lends itself to that character but also heightened the intensity and the sort of gray darkness of

living in that space so tough to do but also just glad hopefully I think time will be kind to it and I'm just glad that for whatever young people do watch it and feel effective by it, that it exists and that it's, you know, it's there in the vault, you know, regardless of what happens. Yeah. And for the people who are working at the U.N. and don't have dads who are buying them tickets to Broadway shows, they can watch it. Yeah. Exactly. And we'll be right back. Fall is in full swing, and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm, and save big, without compromising

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going to film it over 20 years is that right that is right it's a it's a steven sonday musical called yeah mary lee we roll along and they just did a great revival of it on broadway with dander radcliffe and jonathan graff who both won tony's for it and um it's an amazing show that's been revived several times because the first time it premiered, it flopped. And I think the feeder community always has loved so many components of it. And the score is so great. And there's so much great about the the story. But it is a, it's a challenging piece on stage because as you said, it's about a friendship. Basically, it's told in reverse. And it's about a friendship dissolving over the course of time. So you meet these three best friends at their most jaded when they're adults

in the early 70s. And the show business and ambition. and a million other things have torn them apart and then each successive sequence goes back two or three years and you see sort of how that devolved and it ends the last scene as them meeting each other like on the roof of their college dorm

and their most naive selves and like the world is their oyster and so it's pretty heartbreaking but it's hard on stage because you're having actors who are playing up and then playing down and then it can be difficult to get it together. I think that the revival that just happened was probably the most successful

it's been on stage in terms of really feeling the whole journey of it. But Richard Link later who's directing it did Boyhood, which had this very similar device of filming it over the curse. I think that was maybe nine or ten years. So this movie takes place from 1957 to 1975, I think. So we're following the map, which for the, sort of confusing, but for the film, it's in reverse since the film ends up showing

from the latest to the soonest. But so we filmed the- Are you get to shoot in? In chronological order, exactly. Yeah, that's cool. So we shot like the first scene and then we shot a couple years later. The second one takes place a couple years later and so on and so forth. So if we can make it to 20, I think it's maybe another 16 years.

So what is that? 2040, then we'll get to see it. I mean, legally, how does it? How does learn prepare a contract for that? Yeah. It is, we've been handling it like chunk by chunk. I think it's like Rick's big thing is like, let's not get ahead of ourselves. look too far ahead. Let's just treat it as beautiful little short films where we get to check

in with each other and have a nice couple of weeks experience and then the next one's a gift and then one of the step at a time. I get to do it with one of my best friends since Harbor Westlake since we met and we were 14, Beanie Feldstein. So the fact that we have an opportunity every couple of years to get together and make something, it's like very, very special, especially because it's on time. It was like for those who don't know the absolute king godfather of musical theater as a form. I would think that that's because you're just doing

like kind of one-offs every couple of years that you it's not like the massive experience that it can be to do a film or a play or a TV show it's just but I just want to appreciate Sondheim, think later, one of your oldest and closest friends from high school

and I mean you are in yet another technically speaking like exceptional dream kind of job It's really amazing. It is very special, very, very special. I feel really lucky. It's like magical summer camp where we get to come back together every couple years

and have this like, it's like Brigadune. And it's such a really random reference, but it's a musical called Brigadun about this place that materializes every 10 years. It's like this magical town and then it goes away for another 10 years. So like it's like that. It's like you don't believe it's really happening. And then you make it to another few years and then you get to experience it. So yes, I feel very lucky.

Ben, we can cut this if you can either not answer or you can answer and we can cut it if it's a secret. But are you guys making a documentary about the process? It seems so like rife for that. Oh, I don't know. I mean, it's so far in advance. I don't even know if it's a secret. Yeah. Yes.

Yes. I mean, we're taking lots of. So in 2040. If people even remember this, that would be remarkable. That's so cool. Put it on your calendar. Yeah. Well, we're approaching the end.

I feel like we do have to sneak in a pitch perfect question because that is what much for so many. Um, Penn actually has a close connection to Anna Camp. She's in you this season. She's plays two characters. Amazing actor. Everyone was very closely together. And I really, we really enjoyed each other. She's so funny.

Yeah. And I was just wondering, it seems like, that's, that I could imagine was the vibe on set, like so much like, you know, campy humor, people being hilarious. But what was your experience? Like, that was your first film. And it blew up sort of beyond what anyone expected. and you had like a, you kind of like stole the show. So I'm just curious, that whole thing. What was it like for you?

It was amazing. It was like a, it was really my college experience because I didn't really end up going. And it was, I was the only one in the cast, other than some of the guys who played the other members of the, of the troublemakers, who were like more local hires like from Tulane or from LSU. But in terms of like the principal characters, I was the only one who was actually the age of a college freshman. So I, I was 18 and having this experience of like, go. going out of leaving home and living in a, I mean, not a dorm, but a home with sweets with like a bunch of other people, other young artists and, you know, getting to like have, be an adult and have shenanigans and, you know, like have a social crew. And it just was a really

amazing, beautiful. It was like, and I was also very terrified because I did not have experience on camera. And I think because it was a musical film that had elements of rehearsal and they were singing and there were other people who had theater backgrounds like the director jason moore was a theater director and anna kendrick comes from the theater and skyler one of my dear friends to this day skyler ashton is from musical theater and um you know even robo wilson's from musical theater and like and a camp too is an amazing theater actor so there were people who spoke my language and could help me to understand that it wasn't such a you know such a far leap to to just adjust your performance slightly for for camera and so

was a beautiful place to learn. But I was the youngest by far. So, like, my fake ID got taken the first time I tried to use it. And I missed a lot of the, like, going out stuff because I wasn't allowed. But other than that, other than that, it was really, really, really fun. And it's just a wonderful, joyful experience and still very much close to many of those people. And we had no idea when we were making it that it was going to be anything like what it was, let alone that there would be, like, a franchise or multiple films.

like it was a small weird musical niche like comedy sardonic thing that like the most famous person at the time was anna who has become even more of a superstar since then but at that point she was you know she had been in up in the air and in twilights people knew she was but it was not like a film full of movie stars like it was really we just kind of took the experience for what it was and we're like hope this comes out and then it seemed to really connect and people had so much joy watching it so it's just been great that seems like maybe the perfect situation because you don't have the pressure of like living up to something some kind of standard but you just get to have fun and then it's a nice surprise it was ideal yes I felt very similarly with with theater camp I mean other than the fact that we were making it me and my friends and and no one my husband and wanting to prove ourselves as filmmaker is obviously that adds a level of pressure but I think because it was so small and weird and niche and about theater people and had improv and children like we were like let's just enjoy this and make the best thing we can and it'll be what it'll be it's not like we were like entering the MCU so yeah i think

it was a very similar similar amount of joy wait ben i just read something about you just got married very recently right yes i got married like three weeks ago yeah congratulations that's amazing your wedding from what i saw looked like the most fun and most beautiful and i read in vogue that you had a musical theater sing along at an after party and And I was like, what is Ben Platt's go-to sing-along song for musical theater? I need to know. We did. We love this bar called Marie's Crisis, which is in the West Village, which is like a famous

stop here in New York where you go and there's like a basement and there's always a pianist on call and they're playing songs. And the only rule for being in there is you have to sing along. So we really wanted to recreate that. So we got married in Brooklyn in Red Hook and we went to this bar. Then we took over called Sonny's and we took over the back room and Noah has a dear friend who is one of the pianist at Marie. So he came and led like a whole sing-along.

And for me in that situation, it's not about, like, what is my song that I want to perform? It's like what's going to be the most common denominator song that we can all sing too. So there was a lot of Mamma Mia and Little Mermaid and Wicked and Hairspray and Chicago and, like, crowd pleasers, high energy. Le Miz, like, we don't want to throw too much, like, you know, obscure stuff. Brigadune. Yeah. Yeah. No brigadune.

But it was, it was so, so much fun. It was, it was a dream. And shout out to Moona, who also surprised us and played at our wedding. Who's my favorite band? If you don't know, if you don't know, Luna on your list. Are they Swedish? Listen. No, no, they're American and gay and amazing.

But M-U-N-A, I love their music and I've always thought they were Swedish. I don't know. In my mind. Well, that's because they're so cool. Yeah, that's because they're so cool. Exactly. Amazing way. I do want to know, Ben, if you were showing off, what would be your go-to song.

Oh. Well, maybe this time, which is I sing it in my show at the Palace. It's the Liza Minnelli song from Cabaret, and it's like big, you know, 11 o'clock belt-y song. So that's a good one. Amazing. Penn, should we ask the final? Yeah, yeah. So we end kind of where we started.

If you could go back to 12-year-old, Ben, what would you say or do? I'd give him a hug. I would tell him that he's wearing. is not working and to stop going to urban outfitter's. Their sales actually so good, the prices. I wouldn't, I don't know that I'd want to veer him off, off his course in any way. I think I would just tell him he's doing a great job. And the number one thing I would say is probably just like, I know you're trying,

but just keep trying to like be in your body and be present for what's happening because it's going to just go faster and faster and faster. and like so many things you just never get back. And so just like, just look around and be, take stock. And I know you're very ambitious and you want to accomplish a lot and you can see your future very clearly, but just like don't, don't miss what's happening because you're too, you're in such a hurry to grow up. So I would just say like, take it slowly.

But you're doing well. Otherwise you're doing good. Oh, sweet. And I just want to congratulate the Ben now for like having just steadily. from the age of 11 to now just doing like exceptional work and doing what you're clearly meant to do

it's a beautiful thing to just to see you know in colleagues peers and I just want to let you know that I'm a fan thank you so much I really appreciate it and thank you guys for being so kind thanks for coming on it was lovely to meet you and talk to you you can listen to Ben Platt's music everywhere you get your tunes

and you can buy tickets to go see him on tour at benplatmusic.com We are so excited that you can now listen to Podcrushed ad-free on Amazon Music. In fact, you can listen to any episode of Podcrushed ad-free right now on Amazon Music with an Amazon Prime membership. I'm not saying this to suck up to today's guest, but my favorite musical is, Dear Evan Hinton. Just what an experience.

I get into it. a little bit in the conversation, so I won't say more than that. But it's my favorite. You make sense for her because she literally leaned all the way over. I forgot I could lift the mic. I also forgot this will be on YouTube. If you're only listening, Navajo just leaned into the microphone. It was like fully down.

It was like below my face by several inches. So I was like hunched forward instead of just lifting the mic to my mouth. I brought my mouth down. to the mic yeah yeah