Podcrushed - Blakely Thornton

Episode Date: January 14, 2026

Today, the gang sits down with culture critic and commentator Blakely Thornton, who takes them from his early days playing competitive tennis and football to his recent years as a leading voice in pop culture critique. Blakely opens up about his experiences navigating identity, battling societal norms, and finding his voice. Plus, Blakely shares his thoughts on current trends, the rise of AI, and why it's time to roll credits on reboots and gendered awards in acting.   To learn more about therapy with NOCD, go to nocd.com and schedule a free 15-minute call with their team.   🎧 Want more from Podcrushed? 📸 Instagram 🎵 TikTok 🐦 X / Twitter ✨ Follow Penn, Sophie & Nava Instagram Penn Sophie Nava TikTok Penn Sophie Nava See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada. I'll never forget we were playing Yale, and we were up, like, it was a statistically intramountable amount. And I was on kickoff return, which is basically you go and you get a concussion. Like, you run up the field headfirst into someone with, like, a 30-yard head start. I remember, like, we were coming back, and I was on the wedge. And I was just like, we can't lose. So I just, like, we're wearing off the field. I was like, I'm not doing that.

And they were like, and they're like, they're like, throw. turn blah blah blah blah blah i was like what i was like why am i going to go get a concussion for nothing that makes no sense and i was like oh logic now that was the first time when i was like the beginning of like oh like straight male group think is just stupid like this is why we start wars like they get in rooms are like well i can't back down well you can't back down welcome to podcrushed we're hosts i'm penn i'm sophie and i'm navve And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Seeing your favorite pop star literally ripping your heart out

and actually throwing it at their literal face. Because you love them so much. Welcome to Pod Crush. I'm joined by my co-hosts Navakavan and Sophie. I'm sorry. Say hello, hello, hello, hello. Hi. Hello.

Hello. We have today on the show a cultural commentator, critic, comedian. Anthropologist. That's right, yeah. So let's see, you know, we're fresh in the new year here. Let's just look back for a second. What's the trend of 2025 you want to roll credits on? I want to roll credits on the frivolous use of AI,

like using AI to search something that you could easily Google and depleting our water in the process. Yeah, no, I would like to roll credits on that. That's a really deep one. I really like that. You know a question that occurred to me the other day about AI? So I'm not remotely concerned about it becoming conscious because, you know, I don't believe that's possible. Human consciousness is far beyond the capacity for computers to attain.

It's not just computation. But if it's artificial intelligence, how would we define intelligence? You know, like what, like the key to being human or the key to, I don't know, knowing where the limits of AI are is like, all right, so everything it does is not human. So actually, you know, past the point where did it, solved it. Yeah. Next. So I'm totally, there's so many, oh, God, I mean, there's so many things it's doing and will do that are just, it's extremely disruptive to what humans need and want right now.

But once we figure that out, if and when, you know, long, long, long time from now, weathered the storm. Just overlooked that part for a second. I really feel like it can be just only a positive tool because anything it can do, it's like, all right, great, we don't need to waste human effort for that. We can be truly human with what we do do, you know?

I mean, it might sound rosy colored because we got a long way to go before that, but, you know, food for thought. Put that in your metapype and AI smoke it. Okay, today we have on our show, We have, speaking of, there is no relevance there. I can't say speaking of. I can't segue.

We talk about AI in this conversation. We do a little bit. Our guest, Blakely Thornton, is a creator and culture critic, best known for his witty and incisive. It's good. His one-of-a-kind commentary on fashion, pop culture, celebrity, and identity, kind of all things. His hot takes can be heard all over the internet, very, very viral. He's also got a podcast, The Yesterday's, which was. my idea first, but

you know, they took it. Where Blakely and his co-host Justin Sylvester rewind to the juiciest pop culture moments that defined a generation. It's kind of like pod crush, actually. And, you know, if we play our cards right, I think we're going to get Blakely to rewind

to his juiciest, cringiest, pod crushiest moments. That's a prod-crushiest cringy. Can we roll credits on that? I want to roll credits. on myself, just generally speaking. Take me out. I like pot crushies. Of course you do.

Crushies. All right. We'll be right. We'll be back after this break. I'm Bobby Finger. And I'm Lindsay Weber. Our podcast, Who Weekly, is everything you need to know about the celebrities you don't. Think of us as your cheat code to People Magazine, your glossary for Hollywood, a shortcut to

understanding pop culture at large. For the past eight years, Who Weekly has been telling listeners, There's everything they need to know about the celebrities they don't. Who Weekly airs twice weekly with brand new episodes on Tuesdays and Fridays. Listen and follow Who Weekly and Odyssey Podcasts available now for free on the Odyssey app and wherever you get your podcasts. Hey there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfuss. I'm back with a new season of Wiser Than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor, and their hard-earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more inspired.

And yes, I'm still calling my 91-year-old mom, Judy, to get her take on it all. Wiser than me from Lemonade Media premieres November 12th, wherever you get your podcasts. Just give us a snapshot of 12 and walk us through, you know, those coming years. 12, so it's the fall of 1997. I'm in sixth grade. I really started getting into tennis. I saw Venus Williams play the 1997 U.S. Open Final against Martina Hingis. And I was like, I want to do that.

I told my mom I was like, get me a tennis racket. Like get me on the fucking court. So I started doing, I started really getting heavily into tennis lessons. I was like traveling across Texas doing that for a while, which was really fun. Because I think a lot of my like, a lot of my role models were almost. like black women because the stuff I wanted to do like men weren't doing. Like there was Malify Washington, but there weren't really like very, very famous black tennis players for, in my generation, until basically like James Blake, but I was like 18, 19. So heavy into tennis.

The Bar Mitzvah track was starting for some reason, even though it was in Dallas, Texas, I was like all of my best friends were Jewish. So like I went to like, I went to Sunday school more than I went to church. I went to Hebrew school. So I could do like a half-tora portion. That was really formative. for me. And then it was like, everybody was starting to like girls. And then I just realized, like, I didn't. I remember we were watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer. And they were like, Buffy's so hot. And I was like, well, she's not hot, but I too want to like give pithy quips

and slay vampires. So I was like, I don't want to be with Buffy. I more so want to be Buffy. So it was heavy into tennis, heavy into like watching Wimbledon when it was on HBO. It used to come on HBO in the morning. So I used to sit, wake up in the morning at like 6 a.m. and watch Rimbledon all day on HBO. So I was like a huge, huge tennis fan. I loved, love, love sports. And I thought I was going to play tennis at Stanford because I was a little like competitive sociopath.

So I was like, you're going to play at Stanford. You're going to be number one seed, like naturally. That's what we're going to do. Wow. That's incredible. So you played tennis very competitively, it sounds like, all through school? Yeah, pretty much around ninth grade, I was getting, I was like ranked in Texas.

And at that point, you kind of go to, like, the Voluntary Academy or there was one in Austin where you go. I remember when I was like, this is like 15, 16, it was right around the time Maria Sharpova was like 10. So Maria Sharapova was there. And I remember, like, she was obviously going to go pro. But I remember thinking, like, these kids were kind of about being submissive to her socially. And I was like watching a bunch of 15, 16 year olds, like, cowtow to a 10-year-old off. Like, I get on the court. She's amazing.

But I was like, oh, all these kids are broken. I don't want to do that I was like I don't want to go to school with a bunch of like psychos like I was a very I was a very competitive

like wild someone called me a sociopath in terms of being on the court I was more like you know I will die on the court before I will lose

but being with a bunch of people like that even more so wouldn't have been good so I switched to football my junior year of high school and then I ended up getting recruited to play that in college so I ended up playing football at Penn

really? Yeah at UPenn in Philadelphia so I Flex, Blakely. Yeah, that's huge. That's such a casual mention. Damn, I'm really impressed. That's incredible.

Yeah. What position in football? I was a fullback, which is kind of a dead position now. There's more like two tight ends now. So the closest thing would be like what Travis Kelsey does, kind of. Okay. That's a perfect reference for us. You know, I don't know.

I know two positions. I know his position and I know Patrick Mahomes. Exactly. Quarterback and titan. That's the end. That's it. It says a lot about me that I didn't know his position, and I also don't know what a fullback does. To this day.

It's truly not important. It's one of the least important things in my life. As a black gay man, it's not important. It doesn't come up very often. Well, but that is, okay, so actually, maybe that can give us a, you know, a way into this time for you. The idea that on, I don't know, like on the surface, you were engaged in stuff that wasn't important to you or is it important to who you are now, you know? I mean, that's interesting. Like that's, you know, like, I mean, I don't know if you felt in some ways you were, you don't strike me as somebody who was cosplaying straight at all, but you also then, but you know what I mean?

But it sounds like you had a lot of dimensions. I think I don't now because I don't, I can't say how good or bad I was at it back then. But I do remember the cellular knowledge that I needed to suppress a part of myself, especially being like a middle school boy at that time again. Like I feel like that, I mean, back in like, you know, the 90s or 2000, that was. back in the heyday of like smear the queer. Oh, that's right. And like faggot being the vernacular for everything bad or like that's so gay. So I was like, I just know that those things that I know I am on some level are bad and wrong.

So let me go and be like aggressive and achieve a lot and be kind of like perform hypermasculinity as well as a little gay 12 year old could. But I remember I was actually like hyper aggressive. Like I was definitely a bully in like middle and high school. Really? Like I was fairly popular, but I was also like, but I also know, I know now through therapy and through just like psychology 101 that I was like, let me get you before you get me.

Because if you can come at me for being gay, I can't deny that or fault that. And there were certain moments where somebody would say a little thing would be like, uh-oh, they truly see me and be very scared. So I was like, let me be hyper-fucking aggressive and hyper-fucking physical. And also I feel like I weaponize that to a certain extent,

not as, not as in as much, a toxic sense, but like, when I look at somebody in a social situation, I have, like, I, like, it's almost like a Terminator, like, what's wrong with you? Yeah, right, right. Like, should you, like, if you want to fucking, if you want to, like, if you feel in frog, you jump, like, I'm ready. So I feel like

I'm always like, but I think that's from knowing that about myself, like, seeing like, if my, if my eyebrow twitched in a way or if my shoulder, or if, you know, seeing someone's body language in a room, like, what are they insecure about? What are they thinking about? What are they hiding? But that's because I spent the first 24 years of my life doing.

that. So yeah. It was a weird time. You sort of knew it on a cellular level. Did you have anyone, a friend or family member that you were sort of sharing your sense about yourself with? No. No, literally I did not, I did not kiss a man, did not talk to anyone about it until I like, I came out to my sister when I was like 26 or 27. Wow.

But like in terms of actually openly saying it out loud to anybody. no one, nothing, nobody. So there was a weird sense of like at that point in my life. And I almost feel like it affects me now. It was like I was so suppressed for the first 30 years almost that I had, it's like, it's almost intolerable for me to be anything but myself at this point or like speak half truth because I was speaking them for so long that I'm like now. I'm like, I'm very much to see something, say something human being, which I feel

affects my professional life as well. Yeah. No, I mean, totally. Totally. Did you have this love for pop culture and commenting on pop culture at that young age too? Always. I remember there was that show Best Week Ever on VH1

because I feel like when we were in like sixth, seventh grade, it was like Prime MTV. Like my parents made the mistake of putting a cable-enabled TV in my bedroom when I was four. So like I remember like the real world one. I remember like Eric and Julie fighting about racism in like 1992. I remember like Pedro Puck, the AIDS crisis. But I was like eight.

Hey, your pup. Whoa, that brings me back. Finger in the peanut butter, San Francisco. Wow. Like, you know, like. Do you remember the slap? Yes. Yeah.

I remember, like, Dan from Real World Miami. Like, it was crazy. Like, all those were crazy times. But I think, like, the proliferation, the proliferation of that pop culture show, like, best week ever, or surreal life, or those things where you were seeing, like, 80s pop culture being brought back into the lexicon through, like, basic cable. That was always kind of my favorite thing. or like even like ease the soup back when like Aisha Tyler and Joel McHale hosted it.

Like I used to like that was my first. We really are the exact same. The references are making you're like, oh, my gosh. I was like, wow, interesting. You're between 39 and 41. You must be. But like those are the things. And I was like, oh.

And that was my first kind of sense of like, oh, I want to do that. I want to come in with like our sardonic eye talk about all these ridiculous things, which I was also like at the time experiencing in real time. you know right that's so interesting because yeah it's like it's like that makes so much sense and then it still feels i not that want to make sense because i almost it's not like it doesn't make sense but it's very interesting that while this aspect of your personality is flourishing and blossoming you are you know you're like you're you're you're you're going to pen for and you're you're a football player you're like a real serious a true serious but i think i'm also just wildly competitive like i hated

every second of it and like don't get me wrong i'll probably write a script or a book about it and it will be a comedy of errors. Because they'd be like, and people would be like, oh, I'm so excited to get on the field today. I'm like, oh, you like this? Oh, that's odd. Or like, or we would have like our weight lifting coach was named Coach Steele, Coach S-T-E-E-L-E.

Wow. And there would always be like a secret workout. So you'd come and he's like, you want to do like the prescribed workout or like the extra workout and there'd be someone like vomiting on the floor. And there was always like this unwritten rule that you were supposed to like do it because he challenged you. I'd be like, no. I want to do the prescribed recast.

He's vomiting. Also, this is like Penn. We play like Harvard and Yale. And also like I would make more money as a banker at Goldman Sachs and I would have on the practice squad of the Cowboys. And I'd like have the use of my knees. So I'll never forget we were playing Yale. And we were up like, it was a statistically intramountable amount.

And I was on kickoff return, which is basically you go and you get a concussion. Like you run up the field head first into someone with like a 30 yard head start. Damn. I remember, like, we were coming back, and I was on the wedge, and I was just like, we can't lose. So I just, like, went off the field. I was like, I'm not doing that. And they were like, and they're like, they're like, turn, blah, blah, blah, blah. I was like, what?

I was like, why am I going to go? Get a concussion for nothing. That makes no sense. And I was like, oh, logic. Now, that was the first time when I was, like, the beginning of, like, oh, like straight male, like, group think is just. stupid. Like this is why we start war. It's like, they get in rooms are like, well, I can't back down. Well, you can't back

down. A football locker room is all at once the most homoerotic and homophobic place in the world, which is like very confusing. Like, I'm not sure if I told this story before, but my freshman year, you go to like football camp before school starts. So this is like August before people are on campus. And every year they pick one freshman to like, hey,

I'd also never showered in a group with a bunch of men before, so I'm like 18 closeted. And I never forget, like, the super senior, he's like 23, and he's like, thorn. He's like, you're a little fuck, you're a little bitch, you're a little whore. And I'm like, what? And I'm like, they know.

I'm like, oh, no, like, 10 seasons of Law & Order SVU are running through my mind. And they're all like, they all start going like, money shot. And I'm like, what the fuck is this? All the freshmen proceed to leave. They're scared. They don't know what's happening. And I'm like, oh, thanks, guys. We're bonded for life. Now, you fucks.

Like, we walk out. And there's this thing called Gojo, which is a combination of, like, basically shampoo and body wash. And they just, like, throw it on your face pretending they've ejaculate on you. Oh, my, that was my introduction. That was my, and I don't think they understood how traumatic that was because they didn't know I was gay. But on the level of also. There were so many levels for you. There were so many levels.

There was an Evichi levels to that shit. I was like, oh no. when you found out what it actually was you're like, this is fine, actually. I still wasn't like, you know, when it like takes your nervous system like another 30 minutes to calm down? Or 30 years, yeah. Literally.

Or like, I kind of, I said to my therapist, I was like, that delayed my coming out 10 years. Yeah. That one moment was like, whoa. Also, you're so right about the comic level of homoeroticism. I mean, what is just textbook gayer? Truly like there's nothing gayer than a football locker. I'm like, I like, what?

Why are you wagging your dick in his face? There's no need for them. What are we doing? What are we doing, fam? Like, you don't have the answer, sway. I'm just like sitting here like, what the fuck is happening? It was so weird. It was so truly strange.

You definitely need to write this comedy. Yeah. So good. Or I remember when we would have Max lifting day where you'd like bench or squad or whatever. And they'd all. all like bark and scream. And I'd be like, I need silence.

I was like, I was like, I need abject silence. I was like, because if you bark at me, I'm going to laugh and then like, clench my throat with the, I'm like, just be quiet. And they're all like, what? I was like, no one talk. I'm curious, Blakely, what were your parents' feelings about your involvement in sports? Like, the way that you played tennis so well and then got recruited for playing football, were they proud of you?

Were they encouraging you in it? Or what was there? My dad played football in college, and I think my mom ran track up until the whole freshman years. They were both pretty accomplished athletes. And then my sister's five years younger. So she just kind of would like come along and do everything I did, but actually do it much better. Like she was also like ranked like top 10 and 12s in Texas. But then she liked team sports.

And I liked, we always see if we switched bodies, I would have been like the black young of Kornikova. I would have been like on court dating rappers, starting feuds, like fighting with Mortina Hingis. Like I was built for, I was built for like a year. you die or I die and like a solo sport thing. I like, I like that contention weirdly. Like it is very, I mean,

I don't know if you guys are in astrology, but it's very Scorpio. Like, oh, I'll die before, I'll go, I will drag you down to hell with me. Right.

Like, let's do it. But she loves team sports and camaraderie. And she ended up playing lacrosse at Northwestern and winning two national championships. And then she lost athlete of the year to Brittany Griner, like her junior year. Oh,

you're just like expected in your family. Yeah. Our family was just like, you're going to go and win. Yeah. But it never felt like a pressure because it was always, it was very much like internally from me. And I also remember it was interesting, again, playing tennis and like the aughts. Because I remember people used to like ask for my birth certificate because I was six feet when I was like 11. So they think I was, they think I was like, I guess, I don't know, who was that little guy from like Puerto Rico that lied about how old he was?

I thought I was doing that. Yeah. But like up in, yeah, but like up through 16s I would need to bring. I would bring like a library car because I didn't have an ID. because I was a child. I have this. But they'd be like, you're lying about his age. Like, what do you want us to show you, dude?

I can't drive a car. I was born in 85. It's, you know, it's 1999. I'm 14. What do you want for me? So much of what you're describing is like, I mean, it's, you know, it's comedy in retrospect. But it's often a feeling while you're living through it, you know, for everybody in adolescence. It seems like there's just like excruciating pain, right?

Excruciating kind of awkwardness. Yeah. What maybe was a source of, what was there a source of belonging? Some place. Maybe it was in a pop culture icon or, I don't know, like, you know, some place you felt at? I feel kind of like, honestly, I do feel like he was kind of like a tennis court. It was like, it was very egalitarian.

It was very like you win or I win. It was also like I didn't have to depend on, oh, now I'm kind of thinking about this. I didn't have to depend on or trust anybody. Right. Because in team sports, I think being gay, especially playing football. as my primary team sport. I always feel like there will never be like an out gay football player because the implicit trust you would have to have in every single person on the field on your team and the other

team because there are so many ways in which you can hurt the other person and have an excuse to why you did it. Like if the quarterback leads you out and you're out here and you get hitting the ribs or somebody tackles you and you have to trust 22 people who grew up in an entirely misogynistic environment that they don't want to hurt you because you're gay. So I find in football being the... the aggressor was good, but also like that trust I would never be myself. But on the tennis court, I could be myself.

I could be kind of like mouthy and aggressive. And also I kind of had like Serena and Venus Williams as kind of icons to put that into. But in terms of pop culture, I mean, I just kind of always loved knowledge of every side of the coin. Because I think I was trying to find myself. And at first when I was, you know, in sixth grade, it's like people are sexual. They're having their first kiss. but I remember I had my first kiss with my first girlfriend, Gillian, at a bar mitzvah at the Dallas Cowboys Studio and a stadium.

And I remember thinking, oh, I remember thinking everybody else, everybody really wasn't, it was a weird private school. I always say my school was like gossip girl, but more racist. It was like billionaires, oil and cattle barons. We're going to circle back to this. We're going to circle back to this. But I remember like kissing her and everybody was like, I was like, oh, this ain't it.

So that was almost like, My first in total come, I was like, oh, no. I give that's what they are describing what I experienced are two very different things. It was almost like, you know, kill Bill when that alarm goes off. And it's like, eh. Yeah. Like, da, da, da. Like, that was like, uh-oh.

Yeah. I was like, I might need to kiss a boy. But we'll wait 13 years for that to happen. It's a nice segue into one of our classic questions, which is for people to tell us about their first, like, big feelings. Like first big infatuation, first big heartbreak, whatever age that happened if you're down to share with us. First, I mean, the first big feelings was probably literally that kiss.

I was like, uh-oh. Like, I am not. Like, that was a big feeling of like, I do not enjoy this. I do not enjoy. But also, you're still not sure because everybody's so bad at kissing at 12 and 13 anyways. You're like, maybe it'll get better. But I remember the abject terror in having to do it again was like the opposite. opposite of the other boys.

They're like, oh, I'm excited to do this. I'm like, I don't want to touch any of that. I don't want to do. So that was probably the first big feeling of like, I'm somewhat different. And then also I feel like the big feelings in terms of Vaga crush, again, I kind of lived in my head in terms of projection were like all the men on like the WB shows.

I was like, ooh. I was like, ooh, like all of Buffy's boyfriends. All the dudes that were older than me on Seventh Heaven. And I'm like, oh, interesting. That's hot. Okay, Eric Camden. What's going on there? What's happening with that?

So, yeah, I feel like I just didn't really have, I didn't allow myself big feelings romantically through high school or college because I feel like I was very much in the closet in terms of being like an athlete or a class president or whatever else. And again, I'm sure there are people that knew I was gay. I haven't gone back and really asked the question. But yeah, the first big feelings were the next. knowledge of being different.

And I think for me, I remember something I used to tell myself was like, I think because it was also Dallas. It was Texas in the 2000s. It was like, you're already black. You can't be different in another way. Like, you can't actually afford it because being black was also traumatic in a certain sense at that prep school at that time. So I was like, it's already taking all my energy to survive in this way that you can see it

coming from 10, like you can't, I'm black. You can't do. So I think this other thing that would have made me additionally different was not something I could have emotionally survived at the time, so I suppressed it, definitely. Yeah. Stick around. We'll be right back. We talk about uncomfortable moments a lot on Pod Crush, right? But right now I want to talk about a different kind of discomfort.

It comes from having relentless, stressful, unwanted thoughts about your relationships, your health, your identity, or even disturbing scenarios you'd never actually. on. And this discomfort isn't a one-time thing. Those unwanted thoughts keep coming back and the distress keeps growing. It's a terrible way to feel. And you want to get rid of those thoughts so badly that you'll spend hours doing anything that seems like it might help. Maybe it's checking and rechecking your texts to make sure you didn't say something wrong or walking back into the kitchen for the fifth time to see if you really turned off the stove. Because even though you're late for work, you just can't feel certain it's off. Maybe it's something else. But no matter what you try,

those anxiety-provoking thoughts just will not quit. Did you know that these experiences can be symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder or OCD? If this doesn't sound like OCD to you, that's because OCD is highly misunderstood. The truth is, OCD can latch on to anything that matters to you. And whatever it affects, it can be debilitating. But with the right kind of therapy, it's highly treatable. And that's why I want to tell you about no CD. NoCD provides virtual therapy that can help you take your life back from OCD. Their licensed therapists are trained in a specialized treatment designed specifically for OCD, exposure and response prevention therapy or ERP.

NoCD also accepts many major insurance plans and provides always on support between therapy sessions. To learn more about therapy with NoCD, go to nocd.com and say, schedule a free 15-minute call with their team. That's n-o-cd.com to learn more and book a free 15-minute call. With the holidays behind us, kids are getting back into the groove of school. A new semester means new material, and I-X-L is here to help kids refresh what they know and feel confident, heading into anything this year throws their way. I-X-L is an award-winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning,

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embarrassing story from that time. The sense I get from you is that you were like on the offensive. So maybe you prevented those things from happening. But I'm curious. I mean, probably one of the most embarrassing ones. was we were all, well again, we were all at a sleepover, we were in like seventh grade watching, again,

watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer. I don't know. Buffy is, it got three times. She was huge. She was huge. She would, I mean, Sarah Michelle Geller was,

was that bitch. Like, she was like her and Jennifer Love Hewitt. Oh, yeah. Right? The whole, like, I know, just looks off into the distance.

I don't know where his mind's going. I was definitely more in Jennifer Love Hewitt than I was, the Dawson's Queen theme is playing. Paul and Cole is just playing in Pantide right now I can never watch Dawson's Creek I was never I didn't love the shows but yeah anyway I was in them actually you know what the crazy thing is at that point I was starting to be in those shows so that's why I mean

I mean dude I started when I was 12 oh shit you've been so young I feel like the Dawson's Creek guys are like at least five or ten years older than us I think yeah they're about 10 years older but but you know I was already living in Hollywood going on auditions on the Warner Brothers lot living down the street from it so it was Like it was both, it was both all the things that you're describing, but it was also strangely, you know, the world I was entering into some, you know, and then by the time I was 15, I was a lead on the WB show. Oh, damn. So, you know.

The WB, the frog was the guy. The WB, the frog. Yeah. So for me, for me, one, it's something that I haven't recalled in so long, but anybody who remembers like the dubba, dubba, like the frog, Michigan J. Frog. Yeah. The Vaudeville billion frog. I have never quite felt so much like I'm. quote unquote making it as when I was 15 doing the like interstitial commercial pieces where you are

not playing your character you are playing the celebrity on a show with Michigan J. Frog animated. You know what I mean? Do you know what I'm talking about? Yes, I do. So like slow motion like this fall on that. Exactly that. And it has it's like it's like it basically is like if anybody saw the new spot the new Superman which I just saw on a plane. It's like a pocket universe. It has nothing to do with the show. It has nothing to do with reality. It's just this moment where you look like the dream. Yeah. Even though you don't.

It's you on a back lot in slow motion. It's like a wet studio behind you. It has no context. It'd be like, it'd be actors from different shows. Yeah. That was the whole thing. It specifically was like, they're together? What are they doing together?

They're living the dreams. And then Michigan J. Frog was there. And when I did that, even though I, even though my sensibility was not that, I wanted to make art and stuff, I still was like, you know, don't think I've ever felt so clearly that I'm like that I'm again making it. I don't feel that way now as an adult like that was

that was you know that was a moment those little things are funny like that's like oh I'm doing it I'm doing the thing I'm with the frog I'm with the frog Blakely you were telling us about your embarrassing story watching Buffy yes watching the vampire slayer it's like

a seventh grade sleepover and I think like Angel was like doing something and I had a massive erection And it did not go unnoticed And I was like, oh no And so they were like I made up some bullshit excuse

My 14 year olds were stupid But clearly I had a hard on for the vampire guy And I was like I think my embarrassment was being seen In middle school And it was just like I remember having to explain away Getting a boner from an ageless vampire A male vampire

Very specific Very erotic Very little school. You know? It's more like like, vampires don't sweat, but like he would sweat and glisten. I was like,

why is this happening? I love to you say vampires don't sweat. Like that's an agreed upon rule of physics in all vampire. Well, think about it. Aren't they always cold? Think about it.

They have no heartbeat. You're dead. You're cool. Why would a vampire sweat? So, but David Boriana's sweat wasn't he was angel, right? Oh, yeah, he was always, always glistening for some reason.

Because it was hot. Always, The whole premise of that show is actually fuck Because she is a teenage girl So like you're gross, bro And he was an adult He was a thousand year old adult He lives several lifetimes

Yeah Same with Twilight He's but you know who's my life partner This like yeah 16 year old girl 16 year old girl Who's destined to keep trying to kill me Right?

Like come on now Yeah Okay wait my Buffy This is on a different track But my big Buffy memory is when Buffy slays Angel right. Remember he like turned evil and she has to kill him? And then he like turns good right before she stakes him.

And she sends him to hell with a sword. She sends him to hell with a sword. And he like locks eyes with her right before she does it. I cry. It's the most. I think it was the most I'd ever cried at that age. I like fell down a wall. I collapsed down a wall.

It was real. It was real. My friend Maria and I would call each other in debrief and we were like sobbing. Yeah. That was some. like devastated. Yeah, so parisocially attached to this couple. It was speaking, which I've only watched one episode of Wraise Anatomy,

but it was more Mandy Morris in it. And it's like the shooter. And I was like, what is this show? And he like goes through and like murders like half the cast. And I was like, wait. That's like the major, one of those major episodes. That's the only one I've ever watched. Everybody's like, this is cute.

And I was like, this man shot this girl in the head. She was like, Meredith's Grey's sister just gets capped in like the first five minutes. I was like, I hate this show. I don't like this at all. Yeah. Gray traumatizes you. If you're faithful to them, they will kill your favorite people. They gave me one episode.

I give it one episode, never again. I don't realize that everybody dies on Grey's Anatomy. It's just like it's in a day. They don't usually, apparently. Yeah. Well, there are some major ones. There's some major ones. Yeah, they kill a lot of the leads.

But Blakely, earlier you talked about gossip girl. You said that your Ritzie prep school was like gossip girl, but more racist. Truly. Which, by the way, if Gossip Girl was in the real world, probably just would have been just as racist. I mean, it was palitably, a palitably progressive for the odds. I mean, the absence of black characters that spoke was pretty racist in the first. Yeah.

Yeah. They had that one black girl that was like, hey, Blair, I'm like, can she have a life? What's her story? No, not in the story. What is her story? It's true. I'm curious, did you watch Gossip Girl at what point, if so? I did.

But I was also like, I mean, I would have described it that way while I was going through because I graduated high school in 2004, so I don't think the show was even on. I don't think the show wasn't on. But when I look at like similar psychosis, when I saw that show, there are people like that.

Like when I, I remember I grew up, when I was in third grade, the Ross Perrault's grandkids went to my school. So my sister's actually best friends with Sarah Catherine Perot. I love her. She's actually, she wrote a book called Stiles of Joy about following Harry Style

across Europe. It's actually amazing. I like, sent to the resport or sprint. I was like, making a movie. Also, Ross Perrault as just a reference for 90s kids. It's like, we knew nothing about politics. I actually don't know anything about Ross Perrault, but that name, Ross Perot. Was he independent?

Yeah, he was, it was 1996. I was in fourth grade. He was running as an independent. All the grandkids had bodyguards coming to school. And, like, you don't know what's normal and what's not. So, like, Dwayne was just like this awesome, like, handsome black man with a mustache. But then I remember one day a balloon. popped in the restroom and he, like, kicked the door on and pointed the gun because he thought

somebody was going to kill, it was going to hurt one of the kids, but then it was just a boy just pooped himself and then Dwayne was gone. And then Dwayne was gone forever. But I remember, like, all, like, I remember all the sports teams were, like, owned by somebody in my class. So, like, the Dallas Mavericks, the stars. So it was a weird upbringing where, like, I was around it and you don't understand how weird it is until you go to college.

Like, I used to think when you go to a sports game, like, you go to the bottom floor. the players say hi to you, they give you a ball, everything's free. And then I went to a Philadelphia 76th game my freshman year in college and I was like, what the fuck is this? I was like, we paid $85 to be at the top.

But like the Dallas Star was won the Stanley Cup when I was 14, 1999, and they brought the Stanley Cup to school. And they were like, you want to hold it, but like I don't care about hockey. So I remember like, there's a picture of me,

like Mike Madonna trying to hand me the Stanley Cup and I'm like, no. So just I think, being amongst that like it wasn't my privilege but it was immense and you were surrounded by it so like understanding people i think that upbringing allows me to like get an annawintor space at the met gala because i'm like you're never going to intimidate me because i've been around this since i was you know eight yeah yeah wow wait before we leave gossip girl if you're up for it we would love to hear your hottest take on the show dan being gossip girl made no mother fucking

sense. If you go back and I mean that's an easy one. Yeah, we need something harder than that. You can do that. That made no motherfucking sense. Also, low key.

Well, there's, okay, so I do watch the Thanksgiving episodes every year. And me, my, I have a tradition. It's weird. It makes me feel comforted. Wait, oh, gossip girl? Yeah, I watch the Thanksgiving. So then there's

the episode where like Serena's like fucking trip and he's like a 25 year old congressman or whatever is happening. But like Blake is wearing the Stella McCartney thing And we think it's a dress And then they pan out and it's a cat suit So me and my sister every year When they pan out scream it's a cat suit

It's a cat suit I don't remember what you're talking about I actually don't I remember a trip but barely That was a season three Season three Okay yeah I think also think hot take

I also feel like Dan was a little bit queer coded Yeah yeah maybe like I don't think he was gay, but I do think he was like, I think he was pan or fluid. Like, I just think like, if you replace like Brooklyn, every time they use Brooklyn was like bisexual, he actually makes more sense as a character. I suppose he was, yeah, if he was,

everybody else was, what's the word? Well, I mean, just so immensely privileged. His supposed Brooklynism, Brooklyniteness, whatever it is, was meant to, I think, in any given situation, it was like a, it was a substitute for some kind of difference, you know? Some shreds. of difference.

And also, like, everyone is their wounds. So obviously me finding queerness and Dan being the narrator. It's like, well, I'm gay, so he's gay. That's my choice. Dan was kind of that way, you know? He was like, he was always seeing in others the same wound that he has. And it was like, and it made him, well, I guess he was he jaded? Did he feel jaded?

He just felt like, I feel like what played for like sensitive and like the protagonist in 2007 looked at with a 2025 Landryl. Like, you kind of suck too. Yeah, yeah, totally. Like, his loft in Brooklyn had 12 foot ceilings. Like, so now. I always say, the idea that I was supposed to be the poor ugly kid of the bunch is like, come on, guys. Come on.

You were supposed to be the ugly kid? I don't think that was implied. I mean, let's not say ugly, but I was meant, but I was, I mean, there were lines. I do remember, I remember at some point, yeah, there were just, there were comments all along where I'm supposed to be the least desirable, you know. Ugly in the same way. Anne Hathaway is ugly in the Princess Diaries. Or in Devereux Prada. Yeah.

Yeah. She's like, you're a six. It's like, since what it's calling a five foot 11 woman a six. Like, yes. Exactly. They're like,

how dare you eat carbs, you dumb bitch? Like, what? What, Stanley Tucci? What the fuck? Stanley Tucci? Get out of here. Hopefully they fix that.

Actually, they're not because Anne Hathaway is skinnier now than she was then. So like, it's not going to, they're not going to use, you know, realistic aging of women in Devil Wars Prada too.

Also, I think Jenny was adopted. Lastly. Interesting. That is a hot take. I think Jenny was secretly adopted. She didn't really favor either one of the parents. And then also just the attitude. I remember just being these two are not related. And it's like the through line is not working for me.

And I just don't know. I just don't think biologically it's happening here. I just think she's adopted. They've all lied about it. Like, if it'd gone eight seasons, we would have found it out. Because I'm just like that. She don't make no sense. Yeah, we definitely, we did not resemble each other at all.

At all. Yeah. Not at all. Actually, you saying that somehow brings, it brings to life for me for a moment. Like, if those families were real, I mean, the relationships to each one of them had tragic relationships to their parents. Truly, truly, truly, absolutely tragic. So hats off to gossip, girl.

But I mean, it's not, again, knowing people that have been with their parents, that have billionaire parents or parents that have several hundred million dollars, you nail, spot on, spot on kids. It's not off base between, you know, the affairs, the cocaine, all that. The cocaine.

And these were things I knew about in middle school that I shouldn't have known. Like, we knew about the parent trauma when I was in middle school in terms of, like, bed hopping, embezzlement. So, like, even the culture of, you know, of gossip. That's interesting.

That's interesting. The stuff that I knew in middle school about the parents that, like, I had no business knowing and don't know how I knew. Yeah, that sounds to me like the kids were already inheriting the kind of like the power dynamics or structure. You know, because like I think of middle school and nobody knew anything about anybody's parents. That's just like, that was just like why. It's uninteresting. Oh, we knew everything. There were the affairs.

There were moms trying to date the divorced dads of somebody else trying to make sure they didn't lose their house in Highland Park. Like there were all kinds of things that. Dr. Phil, for some reason, was involved. Because Dr. Phil is from Dallas. Wow. And his kids went to arrival high school. So I was around for the proliferation of him going from like a radio personality to like Oprah endorsed.

Yeah. So it was just a very strange middle school environment. Yeah. I'm curious. So you credited that middle school environment with like, making you into this person now who's not intimidated by anyone. You know, like you said you can get into Anna Windor's face at the Met Gala. And I'm curious, I was listening to some episodes of yester gays.

And I feel like you and Justin Silvestor are so well matched. Like the two of you compliment each other so well. He's constantly saying to you like, are we really going to go there? And you're like, yeah, we are. We are. You just are not afraid to say what you're thinking. And I was curious about that. I guess you attribute it a little bit to this environment at school,

but I'm curious if there's anything else you can point to. I just feel like we're at a strange proliferation of culture. And again, I do attribute this to growing up around such immense wealth and privilege that I feel like we're at a strange space in pop culture politically and societally where people are, I think everybody looks at themselves as almost like a temporarily embarrassed millionaire. So like the opportunity to have more stuff is more. more valuable than like your fellow man. Like I think I read somewhere, unfortunately,

social media where like the price of like convenience capitalism, the price of convenience is isolation and the price of community is inconvenient. So like when I go to like, I got you guys book. I went to get you guys, I went to get your book. And I was like, oh, let me go to like Chevalier books. You went to a physical store. Yeah. And like, do you have the book?

Oh, you don't? Here's the money. I will wait three to five days. Two of my business days. Wow. That's so sweet. I think it's just strange. The idea that we need to have what we want.

in three hours without moving is so new, but also has just permeated the culture. I think it's really like, I think when I go to the bookstore, I gain soft skills because I know, hey, Stephanie, what's your name? Like, I know your name. We make eye contact. Totally. I went for something.

And I think, like, even when you look at, like, the Jeff Bezos and Lauren Sanchez Bezos, now they're sponsoring the Met and they're curating lists. And, like, they're losers. They're fucking losers. Like, they're tacky fucking losers. and the only thing that is even remotely aspirational about them is they have a lot of fucking money.

But like they suck. So much that it's not aspirational. It's like greed and hoarding and yeah. And I think it's interesting that they're sponsoring the matter. That feels to me like the fall of that institution to me. It truly is. I'm not going to be invited again. You know what I mean?

I have lots of thoughts about Anna Winter. And I think it's just a very interesting thing where we're, Like we're selling culture out wholesale for the opportunity to have more stuff. And I'm like, Anna Wintour, like, you have probably like, what, $50 million you really need to probably, like, get some back-end payment to allow these tacky assholes to then, like, solely a cultural institution with, like, their billionaire friends. It's just, it's very strange. So, again, I think the, me growing up around it makes me immune to the idea of, like, maybe one day I can be there because I know what it is to be there. I've met people who are there and they're crazy. Yeah.

And I think the idea of like me having a Belenciaga bag or having an additional car or house or boat is more important than like women having access to health care or like or you know or like gays being allowed to marry is crazy. And I think when it's plainly stated, you know, like I've been talking to girls that are going and they're like because I said on my Instagram I was like, if you go to the men, I'm going to fucking trash you. I'm like, get ready. I was like, you have six months to decide who you're more afraid of. me or Anna Wintor? Because I was like, but I was like, bitch, I'm going to reach you for a film. I'm going to drag you through glass. And there are girls who are like, I'm going to go.

And I'm like, why? I was like, so if the pretty, pretty picture is more important to you. Because I was like, Anna doesn't like you. You're not a size zero British blonde. You're never going to be on the cover. Get over yourself. Like, it's not going to happen. And I'm like, and she'll be dead in five years.

She's like, what, 80? Like, you know? That's the sound bite. Yeah. This is the spoiler clip for the movie. The teaser clip. Surprise. Be crazy if she died before this episode came out.

But I would gladly trade her death for knowledge of my power. So run that. But yeah, I just think it's a great, a very strange part in celebrity culture. Or like the idea that I need to work or get the next film or be able to continue to make $5 million a film is more important than having a functional society. And I think it would be like broken. of that, you know. You're preaching to the choir. We totally agree with you, but it needs to be said.

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Do you ever find yourself scrolling through headlines, especially health headlines and just thinking, that can't be true? Well, I certainly do. 2025 brought us some ridiculous far-fetched health claims and some especially terrifying changes in public health. What's in store for us in 2026? I'm Chelsea Clinton, and we're back with season two of my podcast,

That Can't Be True. Follow along and catch up on season one wherever you get your podcasts. There's a little turn of phrase I came across recently in terms of that. Maybe this isn't as related as I think it is, but let's try it out. It feels to me like we're moving for, you know, for years now, people have been referencing a polarization, so-called polarization division. Yes, yes, yes, yes, of course. Of course that's true. Of course that's there.

But actually the word that I saw then used next to it was polarization and paralysis. And actually what I thought that word paralysis got more at the heart of what I'm feeling in. seeing in the world right now because I don't feel in the same way that there's this incredibly active polarization where people are screaming at each other. I actually feel like people are becoming a little bit paralyzed from years of that. And now it's just like that kind of instant consumerism is sort of placating literally everybody. Everybody's blade is a bit dulled by this like everything constantly all at once, you know? I completely agree. I think people are at They think, but, like, it's crazy when people say, when I say I don't use Amazon or, like, I've acted in two things.

Did you know, like, Amazon bought IMDB? So now if you want your picture on IMDB, you have to have an Amazon Prime account. No, no, no. You're kidding. I literally, if you go to my IMDB, the picture's blank because I refuse to get Amazon Prime. What? Amazon bought IMDB. So it's like this weird thing of, like, they buy all the aspects of culture.

And I think it's interesting that now Hollywood and chasing Netflix has made itself a sector of tech. And it's almost made. feel like I miss art being tangible and things having to stand on their own, like having to go to a film, having to rent a movie, having to buy a DVD. I think we didn't think as we were moving towards platforms, like,

of the value of having something to be tactile and stand on its own. Because even now, if you're the number one show on Netflix, like, Stranger Things, but, like, those kids aren't going to be rich forever, like the people from friends, they should be. You know what I mean?

But it's like, yeah, I mean, yeah, they're not even close. No. They're not even, not that I, we had them on the show. I don't know them personally, but I can just say knowing all that stuff works, like, not even close. But I think we're in a weird space that, too, we're in an entertainment where, like, you almost have to, like, make the art for free, but then also make yourself a product offline. Like, I feel like I actually have an easier time in entertainment now because I came in through the internet.

So I understand what it is to sell myself on the internet and then fall into other aspects of creativity where I feel like if you're an up and coming actor now, you can be on a show. But, like, you also have to figure out how to get, like, that why I sell. myself campaign. Because that you actually probably end up making more money from fashion and brand deals than you do from acting. So it's a weird thing where everybody now must present as brand in the most palatable way to themselves to then make the art, which is very backwards. Yeah. That was kind of, I mean, that's been an unintentional aspect of this podcast. It's like I for years, I mean, up until very, very recently didn't do anything on social media for any kind of cash exchange.

and I've only done like a very select few. And this podcast has been like a very much unexpectedly for me in a way in exercising like, all right, this is the media landscape that all people are in now. I mean, unless you are at the absolute top of the top of the top, where, you know, I don't know, I guess everything you do is successful, whatever. But that's not where I'm at. It's like, you know, what we've been doing the last couple of years,

part of it has been me trying to figure out, like, how do I do this in a way that is, like, not selling your soul, like not losing authenticity. And I'm not saying that, like, I or we have done it perfectly, but it's just been, like, an exercise, you know. No, even, like, the things you're, like, given, like, or you're offered. I'm like, wait, what? Or the things will try to slip in.

Like, I was doing an ad for, like, a diamond company. And they were like, oh, and if you could also mention that, like, the mining practices in South Africa are great, I'm like, no. No. Walk, walk, fuck, fuck, fuck. I was like, if you want my black ass to say South Africa, which is 30 years behind America in race relations, I was like, I would need to do like a month of research to prove with the exact wording.

And I'm like, for me, I'm just like, okay, we can just not. And they're like, oh, actually you can just mention that color diamonds are pretty. I'm like, that's better. I was like, I'm not. That's better. I was like, I'm sorry. I'm like doing an ad supporting white Afrikaners as refugees. I'm like, no, no.

We're not fucking doing that. But they'll try to get you. So this is actually a bit of a segue into like, so you mentioned coming into, you know, this career you have now, kind of like it's almost like backwards in the way it used to be done, but now this is the forwards way.

You know, it's like you started with commentary, you came in the back. So like, how did that happen? So I used to, I worked in digital brand strategy for Ralph Lauren for five years. So I was doing that and I was like teaching the old executives how to use social media. Like I was teaching David Lauren like what Twitter, what Facebook, what Instagram was. So that I became like a brand strategist.

And then I would work for Compass Real Estate on the West Coast. And then I had my own digital content production company with McGee's nephew because we met working at the Ralph Lauren store. So we got to like, I got to like direct and copyright and like cast things for like H&M or like Absinth or like Pernori card or some. like that. And then I was trying to figure out how TikTok worked. This was like three or four years ago. And I was like just because if I'm going to do this, also I skipped. I was also an MD at the agency behind Fuck Jerry. So after Fire Festival happened, I got hired in July after that. So I was like a managing director at that agency where I like literally had a team of like copywriters, photographers. And we were doing all kinds of kind of out of home programs for like hotels or fruit by the foot or doing whatever.

And then also I was used to like hiring influencers to do campaigns. So I'd been on the opposite end of it hiring people. So I know how that structure works. So then as TikTok became a bigger thing in like the 2019, 2019, 2020 of it all, back in like the Noah Beck, like white people dancing to R&B type thing. I was like the white people doing the renegade. And I was like, what the fuck is this? Let me get on it.

And my friend was, I was like, let me just say one thing a day for a month and see how it works just so I know how the algorithm works so I can like hire people in my bit and for the brands I was working for. And like the third thing I said got viewed like two million times. And it was Chick-Fleigh competitor, Chick-Ful-Gay, only open on Sundays, Chick-Flea parking lots, drag queens, house music, trademark. And it got viewed like two or three million times. And then I had like 100,000 followers on TikTok, but also like I was 37, 38.

Like people who are aged were not on TikTok at the time. So I'd be like at a music festival or some shit. be like a 20-year-old being like, Blakely! And my friends would be like, what the fuck is happening? So then when Instagram got into reels, like two and a half, three years ago, I had so much backlog content of, like, things that had between 100,000 and several million views. So I just started putting them onto my Instagram. And then one of them was an old one about Zendaya.

And I was like, I love Zendaya so much that I would kill Tom Holland, chop off six inches of my height, live the rest of my life in Whiteface to date. Like, even though I'm gay. It was, like, still worth it. So I said that. And then Tom Holland liked and commented on it. And apparently he'd been taking a social media break. And for me, like, Tom, again, I'm 40, Tom.

Toby McGuire is my Spider-Man. So I'm like, oh, that cute little boy. That's so cute. That's funny. Not realizing he has, like, 90 million followers. And that they have, like, several fan accounts that have millions of followers. So it got viewed, like, five, six million times. It was on comments by celebs.

And then I think because, like, I think, again, because of, like, the private school, like, privileged in me, but also a lot of my friends were, like, actresses or agents. Like, my first and last girlfriend, Ashley Holland was, like, a partner of WME. So, like, when we were during COVID, I got to meet all her clients. And that was, like, Hallie Berry, Robin Thiti. So I've been hanging around these people, but, like, just knowing them as people. So when I talk about stuff, it's kind of inside baseball. And also, I also believe that, and this is my biggest problem with the Internet, and I think culture at large. Anything you say, you should be willing to say to a person's face.

So that's why, like, I tag people. I'm like, if you have a problem with what I said, fucking come see me. It's fine. Like, that's what the Cindy Sweeney of it all. If you want to talk it out, bitch, let's talk it out. If you want to talk it out, let's talk it out. You got something to say, like, Lauren, that's why Lauren Sanchez-Bezos has blocked me.

She's not going to talk it out. She'll come and talk to you, but won't say anything. I know. I know. What did she say if I have something to say, you'll know. Exactly. You have nothing to say. But I think in tagging people, it's interesting, the people that are kind of like,

bigger in the industry kind of thought it was funny and playful. And then like there's a certain lightness to what I do. If you're not a racist or a misogynist, I feel like my bar is actually not that high. People are you're scary. It's like, no, just like don't be a Nazi.

Just have a sense of humor by yourself. And anything is, too, but I find the people that do have the best sense of humor about themselves are people that like have a healthy self-image. Like I think I even made fun of you once with the dancing. Oh, totally, yeah. I was like, he's the white guy

that's right on the edge. He's like he's making it. He's surviving by, he's doing the cha-cha slide by the skin of his fucking teeth. Like, he is making it. And my black aunt loves that. Yeah, right. And she's like, he's doing it. He's got it.

He got it. But I'm like, he's one remix and he's off. They go to the remix and he is just, he's on the one and the three. I know. But he made it. He's been practicing it in his room. There's such a marker as to, that dance, that spirit tunnel thing, there's such a marker where there's like people who somehow think I was dancing well and then people who are like, no, no, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's not quite it. Yeah, anyway, there's a backstory that, but not here, not now. I mean, the spirit tunnel's a lot, though. And in, and everyone loses the one, it's imperfect because it's people doing the beat. So if they go off, you go off. It's not, like, you know what I mean? And too, like, they're not, they can't, they're not like beatboxing. They're doing kind of like the melody of this. I, I've, I've dissected the spirit tunnel a lot because there's, there's, there's black people that have lost their way there. All right.

Tyreek Widders, I'm sorry, you got lost. You know you did. I will clip this and tell you. I was actually so nervous because I just didn't want to do more dancing. Like I'd become known for, like, you know, dancing on TikTok. And I was like, I just don't want to be this, like, dancing guy or the dancing white guy. And it's so slow. You have to move through that tunnel so slowly.

I was thinking, like, I'm going to blitz through it. I'm going to blitz. And, you know, the person holding the camera was just not. moving. And so I'm just there, like, I've just fully just basically start doing the Carlton because I was like, you know, he's going on to here. I really, I mean, I'm just like every thought is going through my mind and I did not know what was happening.

Wait, I know this is very random, but speaking of what, because I did read the book and like your love for 90s R&B. And I want to talk about this because nobody ever remembering it. Do you remember when Cisco made a full $7 million video for Unleash the Dragon and they just scrapped it because it was corny? No. Cisco's first album, there was a song called Unleashed the Dragon.

Yeah, I mean, I know the song. Yes, they made a full video. There was a making the video of it, and he literally fought a full red Godzilla. Yeah. And they never released the video? The video, like, you can't find it. That's interesting.

So I do remember, I mean, I fully remember Unleashed the Dragon. I fully remember like that. I think I remember, you could watch the making of. Yeah. It was like when MTV had making the video. Oh, no, no, totally. I mean, I remember watching making, I remember watching the making of the video.

of one of their songs. It might have been Thong Song Song. It might have been, got to get, I can't remember which one it was, but I definitely watched one of them. That was wild. Or I always talk about this, too,

when Usher before 8701 released a single called Popiakala, and it flopped. It was the summer of 2000. It was right before, but it was like, there was a time when basically they would, like, release singles.

It would be like a press single. And if it didn't hit, they would act like it never happened. So I was like, Usher has a song called Papiakana. released in the summer of 2000. Wow. And it was right after the other you remind me,

but before 8701, which was a huge fucking Brat, like, Red album. But it was a single, it like peaked at 78, and they act like it never happened. Yeah, it's so obscure that I don't recall it. You know, I did see, actually when I was like refreshing my memory on, on, you know, your TikTok catalog,

I saw something that I was just like, wow, this is talking about Cisco. Have you seen this, this, this, somebody is doing like a first reaction listening to the AI thong song. Do you know this whole movement of AI? No, there's an A. I know that I hate AI so much. So, you know, there's a lot about, there's a lot about AI that we could, we could, well, let's get into it. Yeah. But, but I, so something that I've become aware of is like there's this, I don't know if it's one company or many. They're basically, you know, plugging in all these hits.

A lot of them, I guess, are aren't old. like 90s and 2000 R&B hits and it's like a cover you know and it's like the one I've heard is um uh uh ushers yeah or is it is it yeah

but it's like it's like in the style of like kind of John Legendy soul kind of Leon Thomas and and and no but actually it's very good and then the song song one that I just heard like an hour and a half ago and I was just like this is crazy it's like full choir it's a full

choir and it's so good. I mean, is it perfect? No, but it's like, it's really. Can't go down this rabbit hole. But I'm sure it is because have you heard Cynthia Revo talking about the thong song? Cynthia even talking about Cisco's vocal performance. She's like she's like, there's no reason for him to do there.

She said there's a whole kind of like praise section that he does at the end. So I'm like the thong song with the choir makes sense. It's very good. Music theory of it all. No, it's really scary. Someone was just telling me yesterday that if you, like there's some certain

like video AI video generators where if you type in like tech review they'll there's like a very famous YouTuber named Marquez Brownlee who does like a ton of tech reviews and so if you type that into the generator it'll just pull up a video of someone who looks exactly like him doing a tech review so like the way that you know they're sourcing from what's already on the internet so like our faces all of us I mean they've asked I remember like I mean I'll say it Facebook was like Meta was working with me for something because I did the Mac album with them two years ago and I'd host like an influencer party thing and they're like oh do you want to like talk about our

our AI influencer thing where you can make an avatar of yourself and I was like no and then she like voice no to me like good choice I was like this is dark the only other dark situation was I actually I auditioned to be one of Barney's kids when I was four or five because it was in Dallas I would have been the generation yeah we're to bury the lead I remember I would have been the generation before Selena Gomez.

Like I was a little actor kid, so I guess I did in a long way really circle back around to it. Wow. But I remember I would basically, I was in the final audition and they were like, it was like a group of people. And they were like, how do you feel about Barney? And they wanted me to be like, I love them. But I was like a very weird kid. I was like, the job, the paycheck, the hours. Like, what do you mean?

And I was like five. And then they were like, what do you feel about Barney? am like the person in the suit. Like I wasn't getting what they, I wasn't getting what they wanted. They just wanted. I love him. But I remember one of the guys said,

this is one of the guys goes, he's too aware. And I didn't get the job. And I told my mom what he said. And I remember like I stopped. For some reason, all the acting gets stopped for like four or five years. She's like, she said what? I was like, he said I was too aware.

And she's like, yeah, you're done with this whole acting thing for a bit. Until you're like, I'm left to fight. So I was like, yeah. Wow. Wow. Yeah.

Blakely, I have a two-part question for you. What is a current trend that you think we need to roll credits on? And what is one that you are surprisingly into? Like, you surprise yourself by enjoying it. A current trend, reboots. Give me an original story. I'm so fucking tired. I don't care anymore.

Have we learned nothing from sinners, guys? Like, give me an original story. We're done with the reboots. Like, I need new. There's only four real stories ever told. so just give them original names. And then what is something

that I think we should like continue? So yes, roll credits on reboots, everything. Sorry, unless it's with Jonathan Bailey, you can keep making Jurassic Park. You know, I love him. You can keep making Jurassic Parks, do whatever you want, as long as you're wet, as long as you're soaking wet.

Glistening. As long as you're glisting in a tarting shirt with those glasses. Bloody little glasses. Keep doing it. And a trend we need a trend we need to honestly I think the regression

of gender norms I'm tired of gender norms they're all made up the boy's color was pink until like the 1890s like let's get over it guys so I think like letting people be who they want to be

is something I really in terms of like gender identity is big for me I suppose that is happening I mean in fits and starts yeah in fits and starts but I think more so in like fashion like I feel like it's weird

that we have like women's and men's clothes or actually you know what acting awards why why do we gender act performances that's a great question that is a great question I mean that's what I actually thinking about that

all the time like are we saying like Russell Crow outacting like his penis outacting male street like what I suppose what it would have done in it I think it would demand if there's a if there's a function to it it demands the inclusion of women women yeah but I don't yeah I mean, maybe that wouldn't be the problem now.

Yeah. So I would say that. And I'd also say female directors. That too. Yeah. Wait, you want to roll credits on female directors? No, no, no. I want more.

Actually, we would like female directors to get to roll more credits. I would literally, pun intended, like female directors, to roll more credits. Because I do think, I always think about, like, I think my through line is actually just curiosity. People are, you're smart. I'm like, I'm not smart. I'm inquisitive. I want to know why something happened and why it got made. Even when I was little watching shows or commercials, I was like, who made it, who's behind the camera, and it's

their perspective. So I always think about that. Like, when you think about like 80s, like, something like 85% of direct movies in 2025 were male directors or like... Still, geez. That, like, affects who the hero is, who the villain is, who gets speaking roles. Yeah, man. You know

where I, to be honest, Neb and Sophie know this. I feel like this thing you're saying about being too aware, I almost feel like that's being so tired of the historical biases of the industry. And every industry has it, but this industry is the one that tells stories about humanity back to itself. And it does it for an unfair number of people. You know what I mean? It's like so few people are responsible for storytelling back to so many people that I know that I am so tired of all its present.

prejudices and biases historically that like it's hard for me to have faith in the system enough to like get it up for you know like I want that role I want to I want to perform well I want it's like to be honest it's it's it's a little bit of an existential crisis I think it is hard too because I think honestly before you had like you had barriers to entry and gatekeepers that could be like oh the magazine's telling you what's cool but I think now because of social media we have an information flatness and I'll put another role credits on role credits on white straight men being movie stars because you know what they're not a bunch of them are not all right Did you see that fucking Hollywood issue? Of which? Celebrity men? The Vanity Fair Hollywood. The People's Princess, no, no. If you take the seven straight white men that are there, their combined box office for their last wide releases is $50.2 million.

They're not even average. There are 13 working black actresses that have higher box office returns as top billed people than the men on that cover. I'm sorry, I'll say it. Austin Butler, not a movie star. Jeremy on White, not a movie star. Duolipa's boyfriend, don't even know your fucking name. Not a movie star. You're all cute.

You're all good actors. But can you open a fucking film? No. None of you. And yet. And then half of them were on the fucking cover last year two years ago. So again, it's a regurgitation of an old idea that we're supposed to be celebrating. And like we can see the math isn't mathing.

And I feel like the weird thing in Hollywood is really like the gatekeepers. It's like the agents. And it's like the managers. And I feel like in a certain sense, and its most toxic, straight white dudes are more invested in themselves being the center of the pie than the pie being bigger.

They'd actually rather have something that they understand and feel that they are the focus rather than make more money. Totally, yeah. Like, you know, like, sorry, like caught stealing, didn't make money, kid. Bruce Springsteen movie didn't make money, guys.

But we're going to keep doing it, aren't we? And we're going to keep celebrating it in the face of diminishing marginal returns. And I don't get it. So, yeah, roll credits on straight white movie stars. Fair. Here for all of them. I just had a thought about the female director thing.

I don't know. Has anyone seen Die My Love with Jennifer Lawrence and Rob. It's wild. It's wild. And I was thinking, you know, it has these like very animalistic, like fully nude sex scenes and she's naked. So much of the movie. But it felt to me really artistic. It didn't feel pornographic at all.

And I don't think you could have gotten that out of Jennifer Lawrence with a male director. No. I just don't think she would have been that comfortable. And I think a male director, I don't even know if a male director would have been capable. of directing in a way that wasn't pornographic for the things that they were actually doing. Yeah, and so there's just like,

let's have our male directors, but we're missing out on so much by not also having female directors, like even like better performances in certain roles that demand it. So I was really struck by that. I went and Googled after like, who was the director because why didn't this feel pornographic when it always does?

Or a story about postpartum. I mean, that would happen. No, totally. It's actually interesting watching film. like this from like a male female perspective, even seeing centers I saw it with my black friends and I saw it with like my white friends and like they didn't realize the vampire wasn't lying.

He was like, they're gonna come back and kill you. And he was like, he's lying. I'm like, no, babe. That it's the 1920s. It's like those white people are coming back. Like, did you not? I was like, baby, I would have, if he said fellowship in love, I've been like,

come on, let's go. Back to Ang, circling all the way around to Angel. I, like, honestly, if I was in 1920s, Mississippi, vampire all the way. Kill me. Kill me right now. Very short movie. Very short movie.

But it's interesting like, oh, like from, again, it's just like everybody is their wound. I'm like, oh, this like gay white man doesn't understand that in the 1920s like, black people couldn't own things, bro. Like, they were going to come back in murder and he didn't understand the vampire was telling the truth, which makes the offer compelling. I was like, oh, this is a different film for you. And I think that, yeah, I just think

those different perspectives even in audiences are very interesting. Or even like watching Wicked for Good, it was very funny watching it with like a bunch of black women because when her and Jonathan Bailey would get, they're like, get it, Elfabat. They're like clapping at the sex scene. And for me, it's just like the most musical theater ever

because it's like a gay guy kissing a gay woman. Yeah, that's what I heard. I love them both, but you can tell it's two queer people. You know, y'all are dead. Like, she's wearing a cardigan during the sex scene. Like, come on, this is, this is musical theater. She's got like a full-on chunky knit. This is so funny.

There were children in my theater and they cried out, why? When they started kissing, it was so cute. I was like, I think both actors felt that way. Exactly, exactly. I haven't seen it yet. So funny. But I will. I suppose.

I mean, it's interesting. I'm not a musical theater, girlie. So, like, it was so it's funny knowing the cast. And, like, I was, like, actually talking to Jonathan Bailey out, because they were doing a Dunkin' Donuts commercial that Paul Shear was directing. And I became friends with Paul Shear because we did a live show at Dynasty Typewriter. And he is my, he is my pop culture soul sister. We, like, ended up, reenacting, we ended up reenacting MTV's Rich Girls that 2003, I don't know if you remember this. Yeah, I do.

I never saw it. I remember it. I remember it. It was a 2003 reality show about Ali Hill figure and her friend Jamie Glecher. And it's actually, it's supposed to be about, like, consumer. and rich girls. And it's like a real life kind of a gossip girl because they go to the children's professional school.

But it's like Misha Barton and Scarlett-Johansler in it because they were in the same class. But also it's about the disillusion of a female friendship unintentionally. And like it's not on streaming. I think Tommy Hilfiger had it wiped because she's slowly having a breakdown. And at one point she is going through a Bristol Farms in Greenwich, Connecticut with a Birkenbag trying to get the ingredients for a burrito. Because she's like, I don't understand anything that.

I can't even make a burrito. And she's, like, asking the employees of Bristol Farms, like, what do you put in a burrito? This woman's like, what is this bitch doing? The pronunciation of barretel. She goes baritone with, like, a hard tea. But it was like, but so me and Paul Shear were talking about that became friends. And he was like, oh, you know Cynthia and Jonathan. So I was like, basically, it's like, oh, wicked for good.

Because it's like, wicked for good. But like, forever, but also, like, a pun for good. And he's looking to me like, are you stupid? And I'm like, I'm like, babe, I've never. seen this. I was like, I don't like musical theater. I am doing this. I am watching these films because I like, I know you too. I have never, like, if you

would ask me what Define Gravity sounded like before last year, I would have sang like a Sarah Baraleigh song. Like for some reason, it was like, for some reason, when people said Define Gravity, my thought was, I'm not gonna write you, I love so. I don't know why. That was the tune of Define Gravity in my head. Penn thought it was called, he said

to Ariana Grande, he called it Define Gravity. So that's what I heard I was just like divine gravity Like what's that how do you that's that's that's That's conceptual for So basically we're the same thing I was like basically I was like it's like wicked

For good And Josh Jonathan Bailey being like Are you sure you were gay You guys are the same He's just like I was like you know I don't know what happens He's like what I was like bro I don't care

I was like if you guys ordered this home I probably wouldn't see it but it's great. All right, so we're coming to the close here. We always have a final question. A little bit of a hard left, but as we've been saying, bringing it back to the beginning.

If you could go back to 12-year-old Blakely, what would you say or do? I would tell him that, one, it's corny, but like it's going to get better. You will be able to be your full self, and your full self will be special and will be your value to the world at large. And two, the way you feel things is not a weakness.

Yeah. I'm almost like Toby, but like the way you like, because I think at my core I'm actually like very empathetic and I feel things a lot. And I think being open and being gay and being in don't as me unlearning the need to hide that, the need to like be vulnerable. So like be nice. Wave to people. My new thing is I'm nice until I'm not. But I feel like I would. feel like I would tell 12-year-old Blakely, it's going to get better.

Being you will be your value. Being you will be your superpower and just always be open to people even if it hurts. And it's better to be open and get hurt than be closed off. That's really sweet. Yeah, it is beautiful. We all need that. Blakely, this was so nice. Yeah.

Thank you really so much for coming on. Yes, this was fun. You can follow Blakely Thornton online at Blakely Thornton, and you can listen to his podcast, The Yesterday's, on all the usual platforms. Pod Fresh is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navacavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency.

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