Podcrushed - Bob & Erin Odenkirk

Episode Date: October 18, 2023

Today we have not one, but two guests -- Bob Odenkirk, the award-winning actor, writer, and comedic trailblazer whose career has spanned decades, and his daughter Erin Odenkirk, an accomplished multimedia artist and illustrator. Together they co-authored a book of children’s poems and illustrations called ‘Zilot & Other Important Rhymes”, which manages to entertain while also encouraging children to write their own poems. Bob tells us why he still sometimes feels like a fourteen-year-old, Erin tells stories of growing up in the uber-creative Odenkirk household, and the hosts finally discover what exactly a "zilot" is.  Follow Podcrushed on socials:XInstagramTikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada 13 of the poems are exactly what we wrote. But a lot of these poems in this book are not great. Like, ice cream is not a lunch, but how about an ice cream sandwich to lunch? Or ice cream with noodles or with cereal. Let's try it sometime or I'll call it. call you Muriel. I like it.

I like these. I love that. That's so cute. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava. And I'm Sophie.

And I think we could have been your middle school besties. If we weren't too busy hanging out with our parents who are our actual middle school besties. Nerd. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Podcrushed. Hello, hello. Penn. Penn.

I'm not going to acknowledge this because I'm not the first voice. I shall not speak. Yeah, I didn't know what to do. I was like, wait a second. Is this real? Should I step in? No, let them have it. Bow out gracefully.

It's what a good parent does. You know, I have a question for you, Penn. So I came back just yesterday from visiting one of my best friends, and she has two little kids, two boys, and her oldest is about to turn three, and she just cut his hair for the first time in his life. She had let it grow out really long, and she was really emotionally attached.

to it but he started asking to cut it and so she did and then she noticed that she started treating him differently like she expected more of him he looks a little bit older now that it's cut and so she's not treating him like he's a not yet three-year-old she's treating him more like a four or five-year-old and it made me wonder do people treat you differently now that your hair short I thought you could ask me something about my children um I did I I I No. Is there a good, funny, quippy answer there? I think I get recognized more. Really?

Do you guys want to talk about that? You guys want to talk about the effects of fame and my experience on it? Yeah, something novel. Yeah, no, not really. Not really. All right. I want to know, what is your first memory of a book? Like, what's the first book you remember reading? First things I can remember right now are goosebumps, you know, which would

have been earlier. Were your parents reading that to you and you were two or three? Arlstein. Well, I mean, what, am I supposed to have a memory at two or three? No, no, I just don't know. No, I don't. No, definitely not. No, I mean, and I was reading to myself at that point.

How about you, never? The first book that I remember reading, there was a set of books about historical figures called The Value Blank, like the Value of Determination, the Value of Perseverance. And they would basically take, like, the life of someone famous, like, Abraham Lincoln or Thomas Jefferson and then they would like pull out the virtue that they thought that person had demonstrated the most and make a story out of it. So the first one that I remember was the value of determination and it was the story of Helen Keller. And that's like the first book I remember reading as a kid.

Yeah. The first book I remember reading or my parents reading to me that became part of our like family history is a book, a children's book called Alexander and the terrible, horrible, no good very bad day and it's about this kid who has a bad day everything's going wrong and at the end of the book

his mom lays down with him at night and she says some days are like that even in Australia because the whole time he's like I just need to move to Australia like nothing bad will happen to me if I move to Australia and it's just about how you know some days

some days aren't the best and my mom still talks about that book I love it yeah so you're It's not your memory. It's hers. Yeah, actually.

I don't have any memories. Also, I don't know that that's true about Australia. Everything's great. No one's ever had a bad day in Australia. If Australia is anything like the Australian coffee shops that won't stop popping up in New York or L.A., then I tell you what? They need to have more bad days. Nothing bad happens there.

The coffee in Australia is superb. I think some of the best in the world. I'll say it. Okay, let's roll into it. We have the Odenkirk's. Of course, Bob, Odenkirk, is the award-winning actor and writer, legend and comedy,

and you know them from things like Breaking Bad, Mr. Show. I mean, it's a long and very prestigious resume. His daughter, Aaron, Odenkirk, is an accomplished multimedia artist and illustrator. Together they co-authored, book of children's poems together they have co-offered together they have co-offered together they have together they have together they've co-authored a book uh what's it called then uh yeah zillet

have important rhymes yeah together they've co-authored a book of children's poems and illustrations called zillet and other important rhymes, which is out now. We really loved having them today. I mean, it was special. It was very sweet. Present tense, future tense. You're about to hear it if you stick around. We'll be right back.

Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup sense. with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins,

vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair, beef mash, lamb, pilaf, and turkey and chicken cookout. I mean, are you kidding me? I want to eat these recipes. Each recipe is cooked gently in small batches to seal in vital nutrients and maximize digestibility. and their recipes are crafted by vet nutritionists. So I feel good knowing it's design with Louie's health and happiness in mind. Serve Nom Nom as a complete and balanced meal or is a tasty and healthy addition to your dog's current diet.

My dogs are like my children, literally, which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best. Hold on. Let me start again because I've only been talking about Louie. Louis is my bait. Louis, you might have heard him growl just now. Louie is my little baby and I'm committed to only giving him the best. I love that Nom Nom's recipes contain wholesome nutrient rich food, meat that looks like meat and veggies that look like veggies because, shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf.

I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lamb pilaf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with NomNum available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trinom.com slash podcrushed, spelled trinom.com slash podcrushed. A 15-year-old girl who chewed through a rope to escape a serial killer. I used my front teeth to saw on the rope in my mouth. He's been convicted of murdering two young women, but suspected of many more. Maybe there's another one in that area.

And now, new leads that could solve. these cold cases. They could be a victim that we have no idea he killed. Stolen voices of Dull Valley breaks the silence on August 19th. Follow us now so you don't miss an episode. Thank you both for coming on. Happy to be here, man. Thanks for having us. It's one of my favorite things I've ever done is make this book and I can't wait for people to get a chance to see it, hopefully read it to their kids. So, you know, we've heard it a little bit before doing our research and hearing about the book, but why don't you tell our listeners what, how did this come about, what inspired you?

Well, I was, we had a reading time before bed as part of our, you know, ritual of going to sleep. and that we did that at nap time and at nighttime. And we would read many books, five books, six books, you know, each time. And I've always been aware of how I was somewhat held back, I would say, by my own ability to believe that I could be a part of show business, be a writer, be an actor, make things. Even though I wrote comedy from when I was like 10 years old, it still was like years into my 20s and even 30s of me going really is this okay even though i i worked at saturday night live when i was 25 and it still sort of it was like a it was like a

swamp i had to pull my feet out of every time and i felt like it's a shame you know and i wanted my kids to not think like that i wanted them to just think that the world is something they can be a part that they have every right to try to be a writer or musician or singer or anything, really. I think people are limited by what they believe is possible. So here we are reading all these books. And I thought, while we're reading these wonderful, professional, excellent books by Caleb Brown and Dr. Seuss and Schell Silverstein, let's write one. And I'll show them they can be like these they could do things like this so um we started writing poems and keeping them in this book that i call old time rhymes and uh it's really just a bunch of loose pages mostly um with uh most

of them have multiple poems on them um and the kids i mean literally any notebook that was nearby, we would write a poem or two. And then I would put them in this book, and then this book went on the shelf with all the kids' other books, so that their book that they wrote is right next to Dr. Seuss's book that he wrote. Just to plant that thought that you're a part of this world and you will make this world that you live in. And so it really was to make them think of themselves.

that way. And then over time, you know, we wrote many poems here, maybe 100 poems in there, I don't know. I knew that some of them were pretty good. Like there was a couple that had a great idea and maybe even good execution, not many, but a few. So I kept that on a shelf and I thought maybe one day when I have grandkids, I'll rewrite them for the grandkids. And then the pandemic kid and Aaron had been studying art at Pratt University. And I said, I'll rewrite poems. You make a drawing. We'll see what we have. And that's how it happened. That's amazing. That's brilliant. I feel like my, something my mom always says is to go around, talk to people and collect best practices for whatever thing you want advice on, whether it's, you know, relationships, parenting. And I'm, I'm about to have a baby, too.

maybe six weeks. And this feels like a best practice. This feels to me like something I really want to take in. And I'm sure a lot of people will. It really occurred to me. It wasn't some plan I had. It was here we are reading all these books so many. And I know that people see things that are finished, especially kids.

And the world is kind of intimidating. And they go, it's professional. And I'll never be. that good. You know, it's sort of, I wanted them to see that the raw material of writing a poem as well as you can is the beginnings of that professional stuff that you see in the world. Yeah, I mean, that's really beautiful. Aaron, can you corroborate that that worked, phrasing you that way?

I love the idea. It's brilliant. And I'm like all hats off to you, Bob. you know it's it's uh i'm curious like you don't often get to then speak to the person who's like yeah i was the one he was raising you know how yeah do because you are an artist that you've been raised to be an artist so it sounds like it did it worked enough yeah i mean i have my own layers of self-doubt and perfectionism and um you know disbelief that i could possibly be i mean i have a book coming out and i still am like i don't think i could ever make a book and i think

that that's just my own life journey. But I think I was as well set up as I could have been. And even just before this book came out, I knew it would be coming out. And I was graduating from Pratt. And I set a goal for myself that I would make a book of my own, of my own drawings and my own writing that was substantial, that it ended up being my thesis, like a little graphic journal. But that was my own way to prove to myself that I actually can do this for sure. And I'm, you know, my dad is a celebrity, and part of this is the fact that he's already well known, but I have the skills and I can trust myself that, you know, to a degree I deserve this and I put in the work. And that was maybe that lesson coming back up in my life.

So I think it's not a lesson you learn once, but it's a way of meditating on the day and on your power and your onus to put stuff out. Aaron is a perfectionist, and that was something that made it hard to, do this and it makes it hard for a kid to do anything. And, you know, I've once read somewhere that the writer's block is actually all about a desire to be perfect the first time, you know. I mean, that's what causes writer's block is if I can't be perfect, I don't want to type a single letter, you know, and you can't do that. I mean, maybe Paul McCartney can. I don't know. everyone else has to have the vomit draft to start anything, the crappy mess that sort of contains the idea you want in some form that you've been inspired to see in your mind, in your imagination.

I'm so thankful that it worked out because if it hadn't worked out, I think Erin would be judging herself as a failure, which would be a mistake. It was their first try at a book. Penn, you were homeschooled, right? Is that true on your Wikipedia page? Yeah, so I was sort of, to be honest, I was what you would now call unschooled because the homeschooled was just like a cover to not really be going to school and be where.

I was working at a very young age. Well, do you think that actually helped you to feel included in the professional world? Actually, yes. Yes. So there's a lot of things developmentally that I think it did that I wouldn't like, you know,

encourage others to, follow in that path i mean you know i don't know it could work for some but i know that there's perils there but yes you're right it did it welcomed me into the world of making things of the world of culture which i think is a lot more stimulating than school in a lot of ways but at the same time i got to say i'm a perfectionist with certain maybe yeah with certain things although in my trade as an actor uh i'm not at all but how can you be i mean when you make um movie or a TV show, everybody's contributing their small part and the director's overseeing it all, but it needs to just magically come together at some point there's got to be some magic

that happens. Totally. Maybe an awkward segue, but you do have a, you do have a, I think my favorite in the book is Magic Time. Oh, yeah. I mean, honestly, because it, you wait, the punchline is right at the end. You don't know why it's on earth it's called magic time until the very end. And you rhyme volition with magician, which I just thought is like this is kind of ambitious for a children's book.

But what I also found reading it out loud is like there's a cadence where I feel like you're trusting the intelligence of the children. Because if it's read out loud by a parent who's actually like, oh, this is like, I'm enjoying this, I'm laughing, you know, then it's

if it's a joy for the parent, it's i think that transmits so much to the kid that's what i'm getting with my youngest right now you know is like if you're animated if you're loving the turns of phrase they don't have to understand every little bit they're they're probably not going to anyway you know that's right and that's how i talk to my kids i would use the word volition come on well do it of your own volition you know i i would say that and contextually i think kids pick up things pretty easily But I also would sometimes contextualize stuff. One, we would build a zillet and a zillet is.

Yeah, tell everybody what a zillet is. Well, zillet is a made-up word that my son, that my son, Nate, started to refer to a blanket for it as a zillet. And he did this in a way that was very without explanation. or he just said let's build a zillet one night and we didn't know what he was talking about and I wondered if maybe he saw a TV show or somewhere somebody had called a blanket for to zillet but we all like the word and maybe yeah somebody out there used that word once I don't know the lawsuit waiting in your inbox yes they're probably although you know one of the themes of

a book is having fun with words and not being afraid to use them kind of loosely, have fun with them. Use big words, makeup words. Yeah, I feel like it's something I learned as an adult when I was writing Mr. Show. I had two friends who did that. Jack Black and Jay Johnston were two people who make up words all the time. And it makes everyone laugh and smile and everyone knows what they mean, you know. And I thought, you know, I want my kids to see language that way, not be, not revere it so much that they're afraid of it and just have fun, have fun with it. So we use Zillet, yeah.

and we wrote that poem and I the line be calm or you'll compromise the integrity of the zillet that that's something I said to them when we would build a blanket for it and a zillet I would say don't get rambunctious or you'll compromise the integrity of the zillet you'll knock it over and so I talk like that all the time to my kids and I would say what are you talking about what's that grows a pillow at as I get ready to become a parent one of the things I'm thinking a lot about is like how parents create those magical moments for their kids and one of the things that comes up in the book there's a poem called umbrella practice and that seems to me like one of those magical moments that you create for your kids as a parent or a magical tradition I wonder if you could first tell us what was umbrella practice but then also maybe if it's a if either of you could give like some tips, some tricks of how do you create those magical moments? What was that like for you, Aaron, growing up in a household that had traditions like

that? It's funny. I never would have considered my family one with traditions because they weren't talked about within the in-group so much. They were just things that happened. And only upon reflection have I realized that they were unique to us and actually very formative and special. So umbrella practice was really fun. It would usually be a really early morning activity, like just after or just before breakfast. We probably did it a few handful of times, but, you know, dad would be like, go get the umbrellas. Come on. It's time of practice.

And sometimes we'd wear trash bags over our outfits, which is just so silly, especially in LA where it never rains and the artist's full of cactus. And he would spray the hose in the air and make it rain and we'd run around and laugh and it so fun to play in the rain and it's like doubly fun to play in fake rain um so it's just you know super special memory and there's so many of these poems come from like gen duen childhood traditions and characters my dad would do that little girl that little girl I look the exact same you really do thanks so sweet yeah um well we had these umbrellas right And it's L.A.

So you're never using, literally... Why did you have umbrellas? I don't know why. But we would... You use them every three years. You use them once. Anyway, I wanted my kids to know how to work an umbrella. So cute.

Stick around. We'll be right back. All right. So let's just, let's just real talk, as they say, for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. that dates me doesn't it um but no real talk uh how important is your health to you you know on like a one to ten and i don't mean the in the sense of vanity i mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well right you want to be less stressed you don't want it as sick when you have

responsibilities um i know myself i'm a householder i have uh i have two children and two more on the way um a spouse a pet you know a job that sometimes has its demands so i really want to want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so, honestly, I turned to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious.

And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with. Um, the three that I use, I use, uh, the, the, what is it called? Liposomal vitamin C and it tastes delicious, like really, really good. Um, comes out in the packet. You put it right in your mouth. Some people don't do that. I do it. I do it. I think it tastes great. I use the liposomal, uh, glutathione as well in the morning. Um, really good for gut health. And although I don't need it, you know, anti-aging. Um, and then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8, which is really good for, for, for, I think, mood and stress. I Sometimes use it in the morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible.

Honestly, you don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. Do you want to try them out? Go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. As the seasons change, it's the perfect time to learn something new. Whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or looking for, a new challenge before the year ends, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day

into real language progress. Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language on desktop or mobile whenever and wherever it fits your schedule. Rosetta Stone immerses you in your new language naturally, helping you think and communicate with confidence. There are no English translation so you truly learn to speak, listen, and think in your chosen language. The other day I was actually at the grocery store and I asked one of the people working there if they could help me find a specific item and she was like, sorry, I actually don't speak English. She only spoke Spanish and I was like, if only I, my Spanish was good enough to be able to have this conversation

in Spanish, we would be sorted. And that's where Rosetta Stone comes in. I really need to get back on my Rosetta Stone grind. With 30 years of experience, millions of users, and 25 languages to choose from, including Spanish, French, German, Japanese, and more. Rosetta Stone is the go-to tool for real language growth. A lifetime membership gives you access to all 25 languages so you can learn as many as you want whenever you want. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. Podcrush listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit rosettastone.com slash podcrush to get started and claim your 50% off today.

Don't miss out. Go to rosettastone.com slash podcrush and start learning today. The first few weeks of school are in the books and now's the time to keep that momentum going. I-XL helps kids stay confident and ahead of the curve. I-XL is an award-winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning. whether they're brushing up on math or diving into social studies, it covers math, language arts, science, and social studies from pre-K through 12th grade with content that's engaging, personalized, and yes, actually fun. It's the perfect tool to keep learning going

without making it feel like school. I actually used I Excel quite a bit when I was teaching fifth grade. I used it for my students to give like extra problems for practice or sometimes I also used it to just check on what the standards were in my state for any given topic in math or reading or writing. It's just a helpful tool all around for teachers, for parents, for students. I honestly do love it. Studies have shown that kids who use IXL score higher on tests. This has been proven in almost every state in the US. So if your child is struggling, this is a smart investment that you can make in their learning. A single hour of tutoring costs more than a month of I-XL. Don't miss out. One in four students in the U.S. are learning with I-XL, and I-XL is used in 96 of the top 100 school

districts in the U.S. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get I-XL now. And Podcrush listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL memberships when they sign up today at IXL.com, slash podcrushed. Visit ixl.com slash podcrushed to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Erin, I wanted to know for you as the illustrator of the book, was there a poem that was particularly challenging to illustrate and was there one that brought you like particular joy? They were all kind of challenging. A lot of the process for me was finding a style. I was 19 when I started working on it and you don't, I didn't have a ton of illustration practice, I wasn't particularly confident, and I never done a project this extensive.

And so the whole process was long and difficult. I particularly had a lot of problem with the school bus illustration for that helped me out with the name of this poem. A day at the park. I think it was really difficult during the pandemic to drive. completely from my imagination. I like drawing from reference. And I don't really, I've never really had a lot of practice drawing kids. So having this big spread with a bunch of kids goofing off

and trying to get the attitudes just right was, you know, a challenge. And conversely, the drawing for that time of year, which is just a drawing of plants. I went out to my garden and I sat there for an hour and I just drew what I saw. and it came out so well. I think it goes with the poem beautifully, and it just makes me smile

every time I look at it, and it reminds me of poem. Yeah, I've got to say, Aaron, the one I can't believe you've figured out is lollygagging. Like, how do you draw someone lollygagging? That's so good. It's really good.

You know, and then the dog is helping. Yeah. Like, that's amazing what you found to present as, you know. I love that. the style that you went with. Finding the style for this book. Thank you. So cool. So maybe not the most elegant segue, but we do want to talk about your younger years for both of you and your coming of age, your adolescence. We've heard Bob that you've said you still feel like 14-year-old Bob. And I want to know a little bit more about that. What was 14-year-old Bob like?

and what is it about your younger self that still resonates with you? When I was 14, that's when my dad left, the house. And it was really awesome. It just was so great. I remember just smiling for days because he was gone. And so I think people get stuck at different points in their life. Yeah. And that's just the way I don't think I'm always 14.

I just think that I sort of revert to that age easily. And so it was a time when I was given a degree of freedom and a tension that was running through my life went away, just went away. And so I think for those two reasons, it's a place that I naturally gravitate towards. I still think that 14-year-old way of looking at the world, which is to say, you know, that's around an age where you really start to sense that the adults might be full of shit and that they don't really know what they're doing. That's how I see the world and other people. And sometimes I go too far and I don't give enough respect to other people and their own efforts they've made. Everybody's got a story and you should go easy on people because you don't,

you don't know their story. But anyway, that's why I said that about always being 14. Bob, were you at that age already starting to form an identity as like a storyteller, either through acting or writing? Yeah. Monty Python, when I was 11, watching that show was a thing that sort of brought the world into focus in a way that impacted me deeply. And then my teachers in junior high allowed me to write sketches for my projects for one year. And I wrote like four sketches that we performed over the course of this year. And they went over great. They were funny.

They had information in them. And it stuck with me how fun. one that was, how much I loved it. So, and when I was about 11, I remember borrowing my mom's typewriter. She had a typewriter, a manual one, and typing out comedy sketches that I wrote. One was a fake commercial for tasty paste, which was, I guess, a toothpaste that you can eat. And so I just, that's where I, yeah, I was inspired. to do that. And I think Python was the thing that told me that silliness and being funny

was an existential response to the mysteries of life. Was that a special modification that your teachers made just for you to be able to do sketches for your projects? Like was there something about you as a student that they're like, oh, Bob needs this? I don't remember anyone else doing them. Other people did book, you know, they wrote up a paper you know i don't remember anyone else putting on a little show that's cool and they had me do it and not only do it in that class because there was a it was called a pod it was three classes social studies and english and i don't know what the other third one was but it would have been language related um and they in these in this pod they let me do this all year

And then because, you know, it did well, they would send me around the school and I would do the little play, which usually had one or two other people in it and all the in other classrooms around the school. No question that impacted me and made me feel like rewarded and engaged with life in a good way. I remember meeting Ben Stiller and Ben was talking about being a director. And I was like, who thinks about being a director? I mean, how do you even believe that you could be a director? And, of course, he grew up in show business. And he saw all these people doing all these different jobs. And they were all legitimate efforts that you could pursue.

But for me, this was such a journey to believe that I could be a part of the creative side of life professionally. Wow. Aaron, obviously, like, middle school and coming of age is sort of universally challenging, and I'm wondering how the added factor of growing up in, like, a family that's well known, I mean, I don't, I guess you wouldn't know another way, but how do you feel like coming of age has been for you? Like, what were those years like? And then sort of with that extra element, how has it impacted you? And also, how hard is it to answer that question in front of your father? It's averagely hard. I don't know. I guess we've never really talked about it all that much. I have thought about it a lot. I was very self-conscious at the time, as most 13-year-olds are, and also didn't really believe

that I was all that self-conscious, thought I was just, you know, trying. The battle I had with it was suddenly I was 12 or 13, and there was this thing that I knew some people thought was cool. And the weird part is it was mostly older people. It was mostly like 18 year olds, 20 year olds, even 30 and 40 year olds. And it was a thing that had to do with me, but it didn't have anything to do with me also. It was a weird few years of trying to understand what it meant and what it felt like to have someone know this fact about me. and the kind of fleeting it's kind of a cool thing for like one second and then it just

becomes so deeply uncomfortable and you feel so weird for having shared it as if it mattered the coolest things about my dad are how silly he is and how present he is and what a good person he is and what good advice he gives and he's a great actor and he's done great things and written great things, but I, they don't have anything to do, or they didn't have anything to do with me when I was 13. They just weren't his job. And so trying to piece through that and understand who I was in relation to it and how to approach a world that seemed to care about it, but not about me, but kind of about me because of it was a lot. And I think I have come to a pretty good place with it. And, you know, with this book coming out, part of it,

is being faced again and I'm just accepting it as is and trying to internalize the idea that the work I put into the book is real and good and it's not just happening and I'm not just talking to you about it on this podcast solely because my dad is an actor but my dad is an actor and we wrote this thing and I drew things for it and worked on it for four years and now it's book. I mean, I feel like the fact that you didn't get automatic yeses that you got all knows is proof that it didn't happen because your dad is an actor. Then it would have been an automatic yes. That was no. It was two things. And all of you, that was the scariest moment because here's my daughter. I told her, let's do this. She over the course of a year did this.

we submitted it to all the big publishers they all said no one said we'll do it with you but please make it abrasive and loud and make it like anime and intense and i thought oh she's going to feel like she failed and because i'm famous she's going to think oh well yeah i screwed it up i wrecked it because he could sell it on his own he doesn't you know and i'm like oh i why did I set myself? Why did I set her up for such a big no? I mean, you know what? It didn't feel that bad when everyone said no. And I was in these interviews, I got asked about that and I've been thinking about why maybe. And I, the conclusion that I came to is that the initial request from my dad to work on this was enough of the confidence and the, you know, onus and giving myself the right

to work on it and do it and feel like it could be a real thing. which I feel like totally arkins back to us writing poems together as a dad and a four-year-old, you know? It's the same, like, I'm giving you permission to participate and be taken seriously in something that's fun and silly, but also it works. It works. It's so sweet. It's really sweet. It's really beautiful, actually. It is really beautiful and really meaningful. 13 of the poems are exactly what we wrote. but a lot of these poems in this book are not great.

Like, I farted into my hat, put it on, and went out like that. I ran into my friend Matt, who held his nose and said, that's that. You know, I don't know. That's pretty good. Oh, I think, I think good. Here's another one. Ice cream is not a lunch, but how about an ice cream sandwich to lunch? or ice cream with noodles or with cereal.

Let's try it sometime, or I'll call you Muriel. I like it. I like these. I love that. That's so cute. And we'll be right back. In the late 90s and early 2000s, Asian women were often reduced to overtly sexual and submissive caricatures. The geishas of the book-turned-film memoirs of a geisha, the lewd twins, in Austin Powers, and pinup goddess Sung He Li. Meanwhile, the girls next door were always white.

Within that narrow framework, Kyla Yu internalized a painful conclusion. The only way someone who looked like her could have value or be considered beautiful and desirable was to sexualize herself. In her new book fetishized, a reckoning with yellow fever, feminism, and beauty, Kyla Yu reckons with being an object of Asian fetishism and how media, pop culture, and colonialism contribute to the over-sexualization of a very sexualization of a beauty. Asian women. Blending vulnerable stories from U's life with incisive cultural critique and history.

Fetishized is a memoir and essays exploring feminism, beauty, yellow fever, and the roles pop culture and colonialism played in shaping pervasive and destructive stereotypes about Asian women and their bodies. She recounts altering her body to conform to Western beauty standards, being treated by men like a sex object, and the emotional toll and trauma of losing her sense of self in the pursuit of the image she thought the world wanted.

If you're a fan of books about Asian American identity, like crying in A. Smart or coming-of-age stories like somebody's daughter, be sure to pick up fetishized, available wherever books are sold. Fall is in full swing, and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm, and save big, without compromising on quality. Quince has all the elevated essentials for fall.

Think 100% mungle. wearing cashmere from $50. That's right, $50, washable silk tops and skirts, and perfectly tailored denim, all at prices that feel too good to be true. I am currently eyeing their silk miniskirt. I have been dying for a silk miniskirt. I've been looking everywhere at thrift stores, just like all over town. But I just saw that Quince has one on their website. It's exactly what I've been looking for. So I'm just going to click, put that in my cart. By partnering directly with ethical top-tier factories, Quince cuts out the middlemen to deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands.

It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish, and effortless. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash podcrushed for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-C-E.com slash podcrushed to get free shipping and 365. 25-day returns. Quince.com slash podcrushed. Bob, I can see you're such a beaming dad. And I'm just curious, do you have a standout memory of Aaron and your son from when they

were like coming of age, like 11, 12, 13, like a happy year? Well, this is one that I love so much. Aaron was like six years old. She was very little kid. And I was being really silly doing like a character voice. and she didn't say laugh or anything she was just looking at me and I finish and look at her and she goes bad I just loved it so much it was so critical and smart and self-composed um I think I came of age at six I think that was my yeah just ahead of the curve I think you definitely had a sense of yourself distant from me and from your parents and your ability to critique what we were doing or saying that you were separate and yeah it was very cool also very mature

um Nate uh was a very silly kid and and always loved both kids love comedy um okay so One time Nate came in to me when he was about, he must have been 13 or 14 because he didn't watch, the kids didn't watch Mr. Show when they were little, but their friends did. Their friends saw it before they did. But he came in and he looked at me and he said, Dad, you're in Breaking Bad, Mr. Show, Tim and Eric, you're on all my favorite show. shows. He was not happy. He was not happy. It was, it was bumming him out. Why? I don't know. But I kind of think it's like this. Like, imagine having your favorite show you love to watch. And then every once in a while, your dad's face. Yeah, like, ruins. Yeah, yeah. I get that. I get that. You want to be your own. You want to discover something that is, that is you, it's proof that your identity is just, is, is, it. It's based on nothing else. It's just you, I guess. That's not put very elegantly, but I get that.

I think you're right. It was funny. I was so thankful I was on his favorite shows, but he was so clearly not, you know, at least he was tortured by. That's so funny. How about you, Aaron? Do you have a standout memory of your dad from that time in your life? Let's see. Around that time you went to.

to, you started going to Albuquerque a lot. So we actually weren't around each other a lot. But I would, we'd FaceTime a lot. He'd come home every weekend he could. And then I would go visit him like two or three times at the year and stay with him in Albuquerque. And we would always do the same like four things. We would go to Tinker Town, which is a little museum of tiny collected objects in the

middle of the desert. We would go on a hike in the like Red Rock. mountains. Tree Spring Trail off the 14. Go do it if you're down there. And then we would go to Santa Fe. Yeah. And go to Santa Fe and usually spend the night or something, walk through the town there. And I remember, okay, as I'm talking, it's coming to me. I remember one time I brought my friend. I would sometimes bring friends with me and I brought my friend Paige and we were really into the sunset, like just as a concept as a thing, to observe in kind of the romantic like 13, 14 year old way that you might be. And we were in

Santa Fe that night. And the sky in Albuquerque, I don't know if you've ever been, but the sky in New Mexico is giant. It is huge. It's sprawling. The land is so flat. The sky just goes on forever. And the sunsets are stunning. There are all sorts of colors and they're just massive. And so we were in Santa Fe this night and the sun started setting and it was like, like orange and purple and every color that a sunset could possibly be. And we were like, I was like, Dad, can we please go to, we had just finished eating. I was like, can we please go to the roof of this parking garage to see the sunset? And he was like, sure.

So him, me and my best friend went up to watch the sunset from this roof of a parking garage in New Mexico. And I didn't think he cared that much. But when I got home, he had sent me a message. it was a photo of me and my friend watching the sunset and it was like maybe you remember it better dad but it was something like thank you for visiting and for reminding me how lovely a sunset it could be and to be that age and to have your dad you know kind of take something from time with you or learn something from time spent with you really meant a lot to me that's so sweet so sweet I love this this is this is like there's moments of this guys where we've never

We've never been able to explore this with, like, a parent-child duo. And it's very, it's extremely touching and tender. So thank you for, like, just that. You know, I was of seven kids in my family, and I was the second oldest. And my sister Sue was born when I was 14. So I really got to understand how much fun little kids can be when I was young. And so I knew, you know, there's nothing more entertaining, right, than a kid. There's no TV show or movie or book you could ever make that would be as fun.

And also challenging, no question, and make you as tired. But gosh, they're just entertaining as hell. And so I was very lucky to know that before I had kids as well as to know how to change. change a diaper and other things. So, I don't know. I got to approach being a dad with a sense of how much I enjoyed kids and how much fun you could have being around them. We're coming to our last questions that we want to ask you both, which I think,

you know, you can take some time on, but I just, I do want to ask real quick. Bob, how old were you when you first had kids? I'm 61 Nate's 24 How anybody help me with that 37? Are we amazing there? I'm just curious because you know there's so much about when you become a parent

is a huge part of that and for some people earlier, some of you later, whatever. Obviously when you have kids you know that like gosh I was supposed to have kids when I was 18 because they're wiping me out and I had so much energy that. But that's, of course, only partially true. And the better truth is this.

If you have kids when you're older, you have a little secret weapon if you can use it, which is patience. You've seen a lot in the world. You know how things work. And you can win any disagreement, contentious moment with patience. You don't need to yell. You need to get angry and get big. you can win by saying all right well we'll wait until you do it and even though you might miss a doctor's visit or you might miss a thing or two

you will win every fight's yeah right and you don't have to get mad you don't have to yell you just have to meet it and be cool and calm and so that's the value of being an older parent is hopefully you've developed some sense of the rhythm of life I love that. So our classic question, which we'll ask you both, is if you could go back to your 12-year-old self, what would you say or do, if anything? I'd read the poem in this book called Later. Bob, could we get you to read it? Would that be? Sure.

I'll read it to you right now. Thank you. Later is coming. make no mistake. Now will that help you to guess just how great it can be so much better than yester what's past. Don't look back. Let's look forward. Later comes slow and then fast. Sometimes you may wonder, where's this later? It's late. I want later right now. I have no time left to wait. But that aunt in your pants, I implore you. Ignore it. Later's coming. I promise. Just stick around for it.

Oh, that's, I needed to hear that. That's deep. That's good. What about you, Aaron? Aaron, you could also just read that poem again if you want. But what about you, Aaron? If you could go back to your 12-year-old self, what would you say? I would say that nothing you do, I have to say it in the right way, you know, if I only get one minute to talk to her.

But nothing you do matters that much right now. and that's a good thing and that you will have you would have so much more you've learned and you'll gain so much more if you take everything a little bit less seriously right now I think that I maybe missed out on some stuff by trying to be too adult, too mature, too composed, too on my game because when you're that age, you feel like that's all there is. It's not until you're older that you realize that none of it mattered so significantly. Aaron was a perfectionist as a kid. Like she would turn in her papers last, but not because she was lazy.

She just worked. She just believed it wasn't good. It wasn't good enough. It wasn't good enough. She got all ease. And maybe just being okay with it being not good enough would have been a good release for that girl. Thank you so much for your time. We're so appreciative. It's so nice to meet you both. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you for the copies of the book. It's wonderful.

I love it. Thank you. Take care, guys. All right. Bye, guys. Bye. You can buy Zillet and other important rhymes by Bob and Aaron Odenkirk anywhere you buy books. And you can keep up with Bob on Instagram at The Real Bob Odenkirk. You can also see Aaron's beautiful artwork on her website, Aaronodenkirk.com. You there, Penn? Penn, Penn. He can't hear us.

Penn? Is he frozen? No. It's just he's so perfectly still sometimes. It's crazy. Stitcher. Thank you.