Podcrushed - Bobby Berk

Episode Date: September 13, 2023

Our guest this week is the one and only Bobby Berk (Queer Eye, Nailed It!). Bobby shares about his road to self discovery, from coming out to his family and church community as a teen, to finding his passion for art and design. He shares about how he manifested the Fab 5 with a group chat before final casting of Queer Eye, the time he almost punched a fan by accident, the principles of design that his new book Right at Home, explores, and why making your bed every morning can make or break the rest of your day. Follow Podcrushed on socials: TwitterTikTokInstagramSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada. The first question is, can you tell us about your first crush or love and your first heartbreak? My first crush, definitely Marky Mark. Marky Mark, the performer. Yeah. Is there another Marky Marky? Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts.

I'm Penn. I'm Nava. And I'm Sophie. And I think we could have been your middle school besties. Fung Shuiang, our room with. posters of teenage heartthrobs like Elijah Wood. I would have done hating Christensen. Ooh.

Are you too going to welcome me to L.A.? Welcome to Los Angeles. Oh, thank you. Oh, thanks. Hello. Hello. Pod crushers. Yes.

Unironically, just loves it now. I don't know what else to say. Hello, welcome to pod crushed. Sophie, you are, uh, how far long are you now? I'm six months. You're six months. Wow. Yeah.

Okay. You know what? I actually thought it was a little bit longer, so that's, I mean... Really? It feels like it's flying by. Yeah. Well, of course. Yeah. You wait until you have them. Then it's... Every day is so long and so quick at the same time. You know, it just occurred to me, something we were talking about before. I know you're a very spiritual person. We talk about our faith here a lot on the show. We're all the highs.

So we know that our identity is not ultimately in the body. But you are pregnant. You're a person who's now got another person inside of you. have that person soon. You're going to have a child. How is it changing the way you think about your body? Can I ask that? Yeah. Yeah, totally. It has really changed the way I think about my body. I think I have always felt very insecure about my body. I've talked about this on the podcast too. I've also just had a warped perception of my body for my whole life. And I know that because I'll look back at pictures and think like who is that I that's not what I thought my body looked like at that time like I can remember this specific moment in this photo how I was feeling about my tummy about my

arms about my legs whatever it is and now that I'm looking at this picture which is like objective it doesn't it doesn't match so I know that I've always had a warped perception and in pregnancy I've been very like aware of my body and I would think that that would make me more insecure about my body but actually it's done the opposite and it makes me feel like I just I'm seeing it for what it is I've been taking pictures I'm an artist so I also want to document this pregnancy I want to like use it for art as well not use it but you know create art from it and so splitting a child already I already before she's born now I've been taking daily pictures pretty much daily and that has been incredible I actually would recommend it

to somebody who feels like they don't really see their body accurately. It just, you're like, okay, that's a body. That's what my body looks like. And you're not creating like a narrative about it in your mind that is judgmental. It's just what it is. I would like to have a daily shot of me without my shirt on every day since I've had our youngest. Just to see this skinny man's soft dad. flat tire, just start to grow

and fluctuate. It actually would look like when the plants and planet Earth, they're just blossoming and they're unfurling and furling. It's just like every just, you just see my torso just billowing in stop motion. Yeah, I feel like that would be. Just make sure it's in a locked folder. I thought we're talking about body neutrality, so thanks.

All right, well, let's get to our guest. What are you writing a knot? You're writing some notes? She's like, kill. I'm just drawing. Kill pen. Replace with... Chase. I already know who I want.

That was quick. That was a little too quick. All right. No, today's guest, we really did have a special time. Bobby Burke, he's the creative force behind the incredible home transformations on that show, on Queer Eye. His compassion, his humor, his kindness made today's episode a very lively, profound. deep conversation. So you're not going to want to miss it. Stick around. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also

feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair, beef mash, lamb, pilaf, and turkey and chicken cookout. I mean, are you kidding me? I want to eat these recipes. Each recipe is cooked gently in small batches to seal in vital nutrients and maximize digestibility. And their recipes are crafted by vet nutritionists. So I feel good knowing its design with

Louis' health and happiness in mind. Serve Nom Nom Nom as a complete and balanced meal or is a tasty and healthy addition to your dog's current diet. My dogs are like my children, literally, which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best. Hold on. Let me start again because I've only been talking about Louis. Louis is my bait.

Louis, you might have heard him growl just now. Louis is my little baby, and I'm committed to only giving him the best. I love that Nom Nom's recipes contain wholesome nutrient rich food, meat that looks like meat, and veggies that look like veggies because, shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it, and he cannot get enough. So he's a lamb-peelaf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with Nom Nom, available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy.

Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrush, spelled try. N-O-M dot com slash podcrushed. Hey, it's Lena Waithe. Legacy Talk is my love letter to black storytellers, artists who've changed the game and paved the way for so many of us. This season, I'm sitting down with icons like Felicia Rashad, Loretta Vine, Ava DuVernay, and more. We're talking about their journeys, their creative process,

and the legacies they're building every single day. Come be a part of the conversation. Season two drops July 29th. Listen to Legacy Talk wherever you get your podcast, or watch us on YouTube. Let's acknowledge that our guest today, Bobby Burke, brought a dog, a beautiful, quiet, well-trained. Sometimes we call her ninja because you don't hear her. No, she's a perfect little dog. That's so nice.

Ben is regretting all his choices in dog. We shout out to Terrence and Lobo. If only they could hear. hear me um they can't they're listening at home they're plotting their revenge you don't know the story with terence yeah he probably is he's been with my mother for a year can i'm gonna poop right on his pillow so uh what we like to do is we like to start at 12 because depending on depending on where you are now depending on what you do i mean you know we we often have like artists and performers which you know you definitely fit into that category i mean you're you're both so for you

you, you know, were you already becoming the person who would discover design? I mean, were you like, were you, were you, were you building things or were you like more of an artist? You know what I mean? Builder, builder. I used to always get in trouble

before school because I would not be getting ready for school, I'd be upstairs playing with my Legos. And like the fact that I'm now actually am a Lego, like there's a queer eye Are you? Yeah, yeah, there's a queer eye. That's amazing. We're the second show. The first it was friends and then they did queer eye. I've done other shows since then

but yeah like goosebumps it was a very amazing full circle moment for me because like my Legos for my life and building with Legos building outside you know with my hot wheels I would build like these massive cities outside with boxes and dirt roads and then I'd burn them all down

and I'd build them again and burn them down wow I mean I live in the country look down the sticks there was not much to do it was not much to do yeah but yeah no even even when I was before 12, I was, you know,

decorated. I mean, one of the things I talk about in my book is the very first time I realized that color had an effect on you, I was probably like five or six, and my mother had my bedroom decorated and all red. Red curtains, red bedspread, red pillows, red rug. That's extreme. It was, and

it always made me anxious. What does red do? Red makes you anxious. Yeah, I'm looking at your shirt right now, and I'm getting so anxious, not beautiful head. Everybody knows it's a beautiful shirt. Red is absolutely her color is not. But is it just, I mean, is it only, I mean, is that like the predominant?

Is it, I feel like there's other, I've heard other things. I've heard other things. I know McDonald's, like, uses red. Isn't it, isn't it, isn't it, hunger? Hunger. Maybe, maybe that was it. Maybe that was hungry. Yeah, yeah.

But I remember, like, saving up all the little $20 checks, my aunts would send me for my birthday to buy a new bedspread. Something it isn't red. Blue, right? Because I just felt like blue was soothing. And I had found this dinosaur poster that had all these different blues in it. I'm like, oh, I'm going to design. my room around this poster.

Are you possibly known for a particular shade of blue? I have seen fans the first few seasons call it Bobby Blue. Right. Because apparently I painted a lot of stuff blue the first few seasons. You know, there's only a certain amount of colors that you know you can paint someone's house and they're not going to walk in and be like, what did you do? I was just with a really talented producer and a video game designer who's a very visual person. And he said right before this, when I said it was you, he was like,

Oh, Bobby Mark, I love him. I love his blue. Bobby Blue. So, yeah. I used to have a friend whose name was Bobby Blue. That's a great name. If you are out there.

Hello. Sounds like a stage name. Yeah, yeah. Or a baseball player. Bobby Blue on the mound. Everybody used to say my name sounded like a baseball player or a porn star. And you've landed somewhere directly in the middle. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Closer to the corner. Yeah, yeah. Bobby, I want to know what were you like at school with your friends. sort of who were you hanging out with? What were you dreaming about? So kindergarten through sixth grade, I went to a little one room. Well, it wasn't one room. It was two rooms because kindergarten was in its own room. But then first through 12th grade was in one room. And it was this little private Christian church school, literally out in the sticks. I was the only person in my grade. There was only, I think, 19 kids in the whole school.

The only person in your grade. Was that the year? Like every year were you the only person in your grade? I was the only person of my grade. You know, I will tell you that I had a few months at a school in the sticks in Washington State just like that, where I was the only person in the garage. Little House on the Prairie type stuff. And there wasn't a teacher that like stood up and taught the whole class because obviously everybody would be working on different stuff. We had these workbooks that we worked in. And everybody sat in a cubicle lined up against the wall.

And so to say I like lacked in social skills, I think would be an understatement because, you know, all these other kids. in, you know, larger schools or at least where you had more than yourself in a grade, from a young age learned how to socialize. I didn't really, you know, I was stuck in this cubicle staring at a wall except for when we'd have recess.

So finally, at the end of my sixth grade year, when I was turning 11 or 12, I talked my parents into sending me to the public school. Wow. And big shift. Big shift. Do you remember that talk?

Like, how did that go? I was just like, I can't. Like, I was too social. I needed interaction. I needed, you know, I was in sixth grade doing like ninth grade work. I wasn't challenged at all in that. I actually, when I went to public school, I tested out to start high school instead of junior high. But my parents wouldn't let me.

Looking back, I'm like, if you had let me, I might have graduated high school. I would have had two years up on it. I had to be graduated by 15 then when I left. But I would definitely say I was kind of the weird. kid because again I didn't really know how to interact with people and I was also the weird kid because I was I was gay I was different at the time I didn't know why I didn't know why I didn't really fit in with like the cool jock guys and this and that it just didn't work for me you know did you have a group that you fit in with I I wouldn't say I had a group that I fit in with but

I wouldn't also say that I like didn't fit in at all I was kind of that kid where I'm like I knew the jocks I was friends with them you know I knew the cheerleaders I and knew the people in band. Like, I kind of knew everybody. Like, when I ran for student council, I actually won. Even though I wasn't in a popular group, I was just, everybody kind of knew me, and nobody disliked me. Just nobody was really my best friend, you know.

So, yeah. So what would you spend your time doing? What would you say? Legos. I spent a lot of time at church. Really? So I would get up at 5 a.m. to go to church, to go to prayer meeting before we'd go to school. Every day.

Every day. Honestly, it was kind of my only way out of my house. My mom was super, super strict. I was never allowed to, like, go to friends' houses because if she didn't know them, if their parents didn't go to our church, like, you know, I could possibly watch a show I shouldn't be able to watch.

You know, I just wasn't allowed to get out in the world. So I'm like, at least with the church, I could, like, get out in the world to an extent to the church. So I would go, my youth pastor would come to pick me up before school every day to take me to prayer meeting. let me do that without hitting the mic to take me to prayer meeting um and then after school i had to come straight home like on the bus straight home and so when there would be any activity of the church

any day or night i would go i think you've been somewhat outspoken about like how you know the one thing you didn't want to do for queer i was go back to a church and you've spoken about how you know your relationship with that is obviously beyond fraught understandably so So, but I'm curious if like, you know, despite the organization of religion, despite all that stuff, you know, there's that kind of unknowable, mysterious quality to being alive, right? What do you want to call it, soul, whatever you want to call it? I'm curious, was there a part of you that was really like, I don't know if it was like mystical or if it was like maybe more community for you? What was the part of you that was really enjoying that experience or was there a part of you that was enjoying that experience? It was the community of it.

It was the appearance of acceptance and unconditional love. Okay. The appearance of it until you were anything different than what exactly they thought you should be. And then it was all gone. Yeah. That's really hard. And do you recall, because I'm, you know, a person who's grown up and become quite spiritual. And I sometimes think about, I'm like trying, how did I think about this then?

And how did I think about, you know, like God or how did I think about, because I do pray and meditate a lot, like I know then I was looking towards art a lot and music for that. I mean, was there an outlet for you where, because I mean, just because, I don't know, if anyone I can think of you that's been on the show, you just, it sounds like you were just like at church all the time. And that's a very, very specific experience. So there's community, which is what we all need, that human connection. Was there a, you know, I mean. Like an outlet. for your transcendental longings. Yes, exactly.

Or where were you getting that? Was that something that you thought about? I mean, to me it was just the only thing I knew. Yeah, right. You know, where I grew up, like, that is what you believe. And, like, the church, I went to Pentecostal Church, assemblies of God, and I always have to say it that way. But they also, like, they believe, like, oh,

if you're anything but assemblies of God, you're going to hell. Like, Baptist, you're going to hell. Okay. Anybody that isn't exactly who you are. So heaven is a small. place. It's a very VIP place only.

There's a velvet rope and you're not getting in. Yeah. So, yeah, I think it was just because it was all I knew. Yeah. You know,

and it wasn't until I got out of the world and realized that maybe this was a little wrong. You know, I don't know if this is the topic of this conversation,

but. Do you want to ask at 15 at that point where you sort of made the break? Mm-hmm. What happened? Like, who did you turn to,

because you said you lost everything. That's what you just said a few moments ago. What was that like? And how did you move forward and move through that? I found my own community. I found the new community. You know, one of the beautiful things about, you know, one of the awful things,

but also the beautiful things about the gay community is we have the opportunity to find chosen family, you know, because often our family turns their back on us. You know, I've since reconnected with my family, my family and I have a great relationship now, but for years we didn't. You know, I found a lot of great people

that had either been through it, or were straight and we're just allies and just good people that really helped me you know at one point I had I had re-enrolled myself in high school at Kickapoo High where Brad Pitt went and

multiple yeah yeah we went to the same high school 10 years apart but same high school and it was only and I was like I met somebody as this girl whose parents were pastors and I was living in my car and she knew it and so she like would sneak me into her

basement every night so I could like sleep on the sofa in her basement so I a lot of a lot of good people helped me out you said a moment ago that you now have a good relationship with your family you were able to reconcile it sounds like can you tell us a little bit more about that what was that process like at what point did you reconcile did you reach out did they I would say it was about two years after after I left home and there were times in between that we definitely spoke I mean it wasn't it wasn't good but we spoke. I think the first time it really started to get better was my mom actually reached out to me and apologized for being a bad mom. And don't get me wrong. My mom was a good mom. She was just very misguided.

You know, she used rules of raising children from super conservative Pentecostal religion that just weren't great. So I don't blame her for a lot of it. I blame the ideas that were put in her head by other people. But yeah, so she reached out to me, apologized for not being who I needed her to be. And that started. And what really made our relationship better is the fact that my parents love my husband.

And honestly, I think they love him more than me. Like when I FaceTime my dad, my dad calls my husband doodoo. Yeah, dodo. Every time I call my dad, he's like, where's dodo at? And I'm like, what? Am I not enough? And he's like, you know, I just love do-do. I'm like, all right, all right, do it, come on.

That's what that's sweet. My dad and him go riding together and like my dad gave him his old cowboy hat. So I think my family seen me in a healthy, loving, normal relationship that has lasted longer than any of the straight heterosexual relationships in my entire family. Wow. You know, we've been together 20 years next year. I think that kind of helped normalize it for them Totally, yeah. We have a couple of classic questions that we ask every guest.

The first question is, can you tell us about your first crush or love and your first heartbreak? My first crush, definitely Marky Mark. Marky Mark, the performer. Yeah. Is there another Marky Marky performer? It didn't you be a performer.

I only knew it. I only knew him from the underwear. This is Mark Wahlberg, right? Yeah, I only knew him from the Calvin Clina. Because, again, I wasn't allowed to listen to anything like that. I actually didn't know what he did. I just remember one time... Wasn't he a rapper when he was Marky Mark?

Wasn't that his, like, rap's the name? Oh, okay. I just remember one time seeing that Calvin Klein out of him in a magazine. And it just got me hot and bothered for years. For years. What was it? My first crush? And first heartbreak.

First love, first heartbreak. My first heartbreak, and I'm going to call him out by name because he's actually a singer here in L.A. His name is Patrick. Alan Casey. Don't get me wrong. This isn't a dig. I love him to death. This is a great guy. I mean, I was like 17. He was 19. But yeah, he was my first heartbreak. And it was right around the time Titanic came out.

It was actually the first, our first date was to go see Titanic. So when we broke up, I just laid there and listened to Celendia over and over and cried. That's very sweet. My husband, just on the topic of Titanic, had never watched Titanic in his life. I don't know how. Until? Until just a few days ago

He went He had to take a plane to Sydney And he watched it And then he said He watched an episode of a show And then he watched Titanic again He's like, it's so good You know, that's so funny

Because I think I've said on this show That even though it's not It's a genre Like the love story genre Is not one that is like My favorite go to at all However

Titanic I will watch a movie twice in a row almost at any point in time. There's just something about it that is... Yeah. It is so... I don't know if I've seen it since that night.

I know. I need to watch it again. Yeah. Wow. I haven't seen it since high school either. I can remember most of it. Like, paint me like your French girl. Yeah, yeah. Don't let go. I know. I think I said to David at then,

I was like, do you think Jack could have fit on the door? He was like, it flipped over, Sophie. I was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah. Wow. Okay, so the other classic question we asked everyone is. if they have like a crindier, awkward

or embarrassing story from their tween years that they wouldn't mind sharing. Maybe like 13, we went skiing in Missouri, and skiing in Missouri consisted of a small hill with fake snow on it, and it was called Snow Bluff, Ski, Missouri. And we went, I had never skied before, and I went down this little bluff,

and I didn't know how to stop. And so I just kept going and going, and there was no more snow because of snow on the hill was fake, and I ended up like going through the grass, and into this huge muddy pond that all the runoff had went in with my skis on with my clothes on was it was it deep oh it was deep it sounds like you could have i could have um but it was a church thing so the lord saved me um and so i just i'm like soaking wet i'm i didn't bring any clothes

and so i had to like go into the bathroom in front of people and just kind of like try to hose myself off in the sink yeah on the scene yeah so that was um my first ski and for you at home I'm air quoting ski experience I did not try it again until I was probably 19 and then I did not try it again until 2015 what characterized you were you a were you a were you really quiet I would say I've always been an introverted extrovert like in large groups of people I'm very introverted I'm very quiet going Being in Hollywood has been very hard for me. I remember the first Emmy, Emmys 2018, when we won our first Emmys,

like the Ted Sarando from Netflix has his party at his house, the weekend of Emmys for everybody that's nominated. And I got there and I was so nervous. I like went to the bathroom and locked the bathroom door and put my feet up on the toilet so nobody could see me and just like sat in there for 30 minutes before I could finally come back out. So even as a child I was like that, like none of my friends or family believed that I was introverted at all

because around people that I'm comfortable with, I'm very extroverted. But yeah, so I've always definitely been an introverted extrovert. I've gotten much better, though, at being able to be an extrovert when I need to be the extrovert. So what's the experience for you like when, like, strangers recognize you and approach you? Is that a thing?

Oh. It's such a blessing to be on a show that attracts the most loving, wonderful, kind fans that our show attracts. That being said, when you do have social anxiety, like Anthony and I talk about this a lot because he's the same way. It can be a lot,

especially when like our show people feel like they know you, they know us, and they're best friends. And so it's, it's, I thought I was getting better, but recently I feel like I've gotten a little worse. Recently, a lot of people have come up and like grabbed me. Oh no, but that's just so inappropriate. They get, and to any of you just mean that this happened with, I love you, don't be mad, don't be upset, I don't hate you, but it's just like, they get excited and again, like, they feel like, oh, this is just my friend. He doesn't see me, I'm going to grab his shoulder. And like, I get startled and I'm, yeah, recently, like, I didn't react well. And I was, what's that? You punched somebody. No, that almost happened once, though. Wow. I was walking on a street in Kansas City when we were filming, and I had my earphones on. I was coming back from the gym and this woman rushed behind me and grabbed my shoulder and swing me around. And I thought I was getting

And so I just like went to punch her and I came like half an inch from punching her in the face and I was like oh my I'm like oh my god don't do that and she's like I'm sorry I was in a cab and I saw you and I made the cab stop because I literally just flew into Kansas City last night and I was like I'm just gonna die if I see him and there you were and she's like I just I'm so it's okay it's okay just don't do it. You're both hyperventilating yeah you're both trying and somebody did it into me into an airport the other day. I'm like in a lounge and I'm like I'm like hunched in a corner in my watching my iPad like trying to really just I'm like it is I have my earphones in my face is in a screen like I clearly I'm like I don't you're in your media bubble and this person comes over and like pulls my shoulder and I looked at first I thought it was my husband but then I really wasn't so then I was like really startled because I'm like why would anybody be touching me yeah and I didn't react I think it was all over my things. face, like, what the, I don't know if we can cuss on here, but like, what the fuck are you doing touching me? And he's like, oh, I'm sorry, can we get a picture, though? Can we get a picture? And his girlfriend, our wife, was like, I don't know if he wants to.

And I'm like, it's okay, it's okay. It's my smile. Yeah. So everybody out there, hey, don't touch someone you don't know. Don't touch people, like get their attention another way. Or the people that will, like, yell my name, they're on 100% sure. me so they'll be like Bobby Bobby I hear it

I refuse to flinch I know it's like no That's good maybe I'm just like oh it's a lookalike The great thing I have is that When somebody doesn't shout my name or they shout a character name It's just it's not me I'm not I have my headphones in There you go the other day I was shouting his name on a block

And I was like wait we need a code name because I'm like alerting all these people And then just for reference I did definitely say we're not having a code day. Little buddy! Little buddy! People talk about parasycial relationships. But I mean, you know, you guys are like, you are these, you are yourselves,

but you're a personality, and you, and they are in your name. Exactly. Like, like, I mean, I just, I would actually think I'm realizing, like you have a unique experience in that whole thing. There will be mornings. I am standing in line at Starbucks holding some woman bawling her eyes out because she has had an emotional moment with our show or a family member.

And I, you know, I don't want to ruin that for them. And so I'm, you know, in my mind, I'm like, oh, you really need a coffee. Yeah. Stick around. We'll be right back. All right. So let's just, let's just real talk, as they say, for a second. And that's a little bit of an aged thing to say now.

That dates me, doesn't it? But no, real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a one to ten? And I don't mean in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like, you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick.

When you have responsibilities, I know myself, I'm a householder. I have two children and two more on the way. A spouse, a pet. You know, a job that sometimes has. as it demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down some other way physically. My family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so honestly, I turned to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful

little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I really, really, really love. liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with. The three that I use, I use, I use the, what is it called? Liposomal vitamin C, and it tastes delicious, like really, really good. Comes out in a packet, you put it right in your mouth. Some people don't do that. I do it.

I think it tastes great. I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning. Really good for gut health, and although I don't need it, you know, anti-aging. And then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8, which is really good for, for, I think, mood and stress. I sometimes use it in the morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible. Honestly, you don't even need to mix it with water.

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of like at some point you got into design. At some point you, you know, now, you know, you're here and it's turned into something you probably never could have imagined, I would think. I mean, did you ever see yourself turning into something that, right? No. I mean, Being famous was never an item on a list of my goals in life. And I mean, from what I understand, you moved to New York and you started working at, like, a hardware shop at Beth and Beyond. Restoration hardware. Restoration. Oh, that's very different than a hardware shop.

It's definitely... It's like when I tell people I used to work at the body shop at DIA airport. They're like, oh my God, you used to work on planes, and I'm like, no, like potty lotion, the body shop. you can smell it now you just got transported back to the mall so at what point you know in your youth you're coming up you leave actually what what made you decide new york city so um new year's eve

20 supposed to go out with friends. A friend of mine ditched me because he thought the guy that he liked was asking him out, but in fact, the guy that he liked was asking him out on a date he already had is just like the third wheel. So it was like karma. It's a strange thing to do. I'm still friends with that person to this day,

so it's fine. But so I ended up just at home by myself chatting with people online and I was chatting on this website, gay.com which is all there was back then. There was no smartphones. And I ended up chatting with this kid in New York City. Wait, this is 20, 22.

Oh, I'm sorry, 2002. 2002. And she's like, oh, you're still friends with this person a year later? Okay, great. There's only gay down. We're like, there's Tinder. There's a lot. To 2002.

I'm sorry. Okay, okay. You're a few thousand. Gotcha. And so I hit it off with this guy, but honestly, to close the chat window, never thought anything of it, had a great conversation. A call, maybe like a month later, two months, later, I went to New York to visit another friend

and I'm walking to this bar and somebody turns around and walks right into me and spills their drink all over me and I look up and it's literally the guy. That's a crazy meat cute. That's like... And I was just like, Tim? It's like Bobby? And we

fell madly in love, like instantaneously. And I started coming out to New York City all the time and I planned on moving out there in with him. We did not even last long enough for me to move out there. Madly in love. Madly in love, madly in love for three months. But during that time, I fell in love with the city.

And I just, I felt it was where I needed to be. So even though I wasn't moving out there for someone, I was moving out there for myself. Do you ask how I moved to New York City? Well, yeah. So actually, so I also, I didn't realize that you moved to. We're going all over the place too, though. I thought, I was, I misunderstood.

I thought you went from Missouri to New York. So you went from, you moved in Denver. The Denver. Yeah. And then Denver to New York. What made you choose Denver? I knew one person in the world that didn't live in Missouri and they lived in Denver. Is that really true?

It's really true. I met them on ICQ. Do you remember ICQ? I love it. Yeah, what is that? It was like the original chatting. Yeah, before AOL and a semester. It was big in Europe.

And when you got a chat, it would make this a little, oh. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's really cute. So hold on. So this is at 15, right? Yeah. Yeah.

I met Jesse Sheets. Shout out to Jesse Sheets. I met him. I was probably like 13 when I met him, 13 or 14. I met him on, like, I was on a school computer on ICQ. And he actually helped me, like, really come to the realization that I was gay and accept myself and love myself. And, like, I would go, like, he came to Kansas for something once. And I, like, went to visit him when he was there.

And, yeah, he really helped me a lot. Like, he was kind of my only friend in the world that knew who I was. Because every day at school, I wore that mask. Every day at church, I wore that mask. Not like the one I wore on Mask, Singer, a completely different mask, a straight mask. And so, yeah, he definitely helped me out. So when I was 17, I kind of had a mental breakdown one day, I was driving a friend to work. And the road I went to take her on that we normally go on was closed.

So I went to cut through this parking lot. And every other exit of the parking lot was also closed. and I just like came to my 1984 Buick century, came to a screeching halt and I kind of got out of the car and just sat in the middle of the parking lot I was like this is my life I keep trying to take different roads

I keep trying to take different exits but I can't get out I'm stuck in this parking lot and if I don't get out of this parking lot I'm going to be in this parking lot the rest of my life so that parking lot was Missouri and so I went to work at the body shop

in the mall in Springfield, Missouri And I told my manager, I'm like, oh, I had called Jesse first. And Jesse was like, moved to Denver. And I'm like, I have no money. I have no job. I have nowhere to live. He's like, you work on the money and the job. I'll find you a place to live.

So he called me and he's like, my old college roommate has a room that you can rent until you find your own place. So I went to work. I told my manager, I've got to get to Denver. I've got to move to Denver. She disappeared for an hour, came back out. She's like, all right, you're the assistant manager of the airport body shop now. Wow. Making $24,000 a year.

I was rich. or else I thought in Missouri I was in Denver I was a whole other topic so that night I went home and I'm like all right I have a job I have a place to live

I have no money and I had this massive collection of DVDs I won't tell you how I got them and I went into Hastings music and I sold them all and I got like 500 bucks for them and I used that to go to U-Haul and I got a U-Haul truck that night with a trailer and that night

I packed everything I own. Jesse got on a Greyhound bus and came out from Denver to ride with me on that U-Haul. And within 24 hours of having that breakdown in the parking lot, I was gone. I feel like that says so much about you. The urgency, the clarity,

the urgency, the action that you saw it through, like is that something that is sort of characterizes you? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I also knew that if I'm a very logical person that really overthinks things and I knew that if I set and thought about it, you talk yourself out of it. I'm like, I have to do this now or else I'm going to ruin this opportunity. Let's talk about how you got into your current career path. What was

the path to queer eye? Like I always like design. I was like always remodeling the the trashy apartments I lived in to make them more livable and I was always something I enjoyed doing. I just never thought of it as something I could do for a job because I didn't have education in it. And, you know, society tells you, if you are not educated in what you want to do, you cannot do it. You must go to college and accrued debt, and then you can work. So I dis assumed I would be working in restaurants and retail, which is great. You know, the rest of my life. So then in Denver, I worked at the Bombay Company.

You guys remember that. Restoration, no, in Denver, that was my first job in New York, was restoration hardware. Funny enough, the day I got fired from restoration hardware. Tom Felicia was in the store at the time filming the original Queer Eye. That's insane. Why did you get fired? So I was a design manager, and so I was in charge of making sure the store always looked good. And so the night before, I was there until 1 o'clock in the morning, making sure the store was perfect for Queer Eye coming.

Oh, my God. That is so crazy. And I forgot to clock us out, maybe didn't clock out. And so when I went in the next day, and we were supposed to have left at 8. When I went in the next day, I saw that the GM just assumed we left at 8 and clocked us all out at 8. so I fixed all of our time including mine which was a huge no-no to change her own time and there was a manager who wanted my job

and she ratted me out. Oh my gosh, that's so petty. And so I got fired. Do you want to name her? Candy. But it's funny that the manager that had to fire me like she didn't want to. Her name was Colista.

She's great. She's still out there. When she heard that I got queer eye, she de-ends me and she's like, aren't you glad I fired you? I just think it's so funny that we thought it was a hardware store. Yeah, I really like that. Oh, you work at Laurel Hardware.

A hardware store, right? That's a restaurant. Yeah. But yeah, so restoration hardware. And then I worked for a company called Portico, which was a high-end retailer, furniture, spa products. And I started out as a store manager. I worked my way up to creative director of that company in the end.

I had built their e-commerce division. as well. And one day we all got notifications that the company is bankrupt and closing and awesome. Clearly the owner had not been running it very well and we just weren't aware. So that night, I went in and I cloned the database for the e-commerce

that I had built for them. And I registered bobbyberghom.com and I'm like, maybe I'll sell a sofa to while I look for another job. And I sold more than a few. I was one of the first online retailers out there for furniture. My biggest hurdle was getting manufacturers to sell to me because they're like, online. No one's going to buy things online, especially furniture. We're going to upset all of our brick and mortar stores if we sell you online.

So eventually I actually opened up brick and mortar stores just so I could get the product I wanted because they would sell to me then. So I then opened up a store in Soho and then Miami and then Atlanta and then L.A. and the brand started to grow. It's amazing. But I still wasn't a designer. You know, I still never went to school for it. But I got a call in 2015 from Builder magazine. They're like, hey, we hired a PR firm to tell us who the most millennial designer was out there.

They said it was you. Wow. And I'm like, oh, I'm like, great. In my mind about I'm like, I'm not a designer, but great. And they're like, we are building the show homes for the international builders' show. And they're all about what millennials want in their homes moving forward. Remember when people wanted to know what millennials wanted? I know.

I know they don't care. Yeah, they don't care. And they're like, you know, we want you to design the show homes for the International Builder Show. And they're like, can you do that? And in my mind, I'm like, I have, and this isn't just picking out furniture. This is like electrical plants, construction documents, like, like actual things you need to know to build a house. But I'm like, yes. Wow.

That's incredible. That's always been my philosophy. Yeah. Always say yes. Yes. Actually, no, I'd say no for everything almost. Yeah. Back then, it was always say yes.

There's a season for yes. That was my season of yes. Say yes and then figure out how to do it. I think Martha Stewart said that once as well. Like back in the day, like she didn't know how to do any of the things she did now, but she'd always be like, yes, I can do that. Yeah. What was her timeline?

I don't remember. It's a good thing. It's a good thing. Yeah. How did you quickly learn electrical? Google, YouTube. You can learn anything on Google and YouTube. And then, like, you need to know CAD for floor plants and stuff,

but I just put them in Photoshop and I manipulated them. I said to the builder, I was like, hey, you know, I really want to make sure I'm giving these construction packets to you exactly like you like them. So do you have any from, like, past projects that you've done just so I can make sure my format matches your format. And I just, like, put them all in Photoshop and change them up a little bit. That's amazing. Okay, wait, you're not done with the story, but I have a question for you. just listening to you talk about your trajectory

and there are so many points where I'm like oh my god this is incredible that you that you started this online business and then it's incredible you open these brick and mortars in all of these big cities and then it's incredible like just thing after thing after thing and I'm wondering like looking back it's easy to see that success

but at the time when you were going through it were you recognizing that no because I I'm my own worst critic that's a strange phenomenon on. I'm never heard of that. You know, and it's also, to me, it's never enough. I always think I'm not doing enough.

I'm not working hard enough. Even though, like, back then I worked seven days a week, 364 days a year. But it was always never enough. What was the question? Yeah, just that, just did you recognize, did you realize you were making it? Like, you were doing it.

No, no. And I honestly still do you now. Maybe? Yeah. And I mean that actually, the sensitivity. Like, it's a big question. I still don't think I do enough. I just, COVID, though, really gave me a perspective on work-life balance. I think it did that for billions of people.

Yeah. You know, I realized that I was, you know, 2019, I flew over 500,000 miles in one year. Wow. I was in L.A., Phoenix, New York, London, Beijing, Shanghai, and Hong Kong in six days. What? What were you doing in Beijing? I went to high school in Beijing. My furniture license partner was there.

I love Shanghai is my favorite city in China. But Beijing is awesome. Bobby, can you finish though? I mean, like I want to. Sorry, sorry. You're like you also had ADD really bad. That's my fault. You were like building momentum to the story of how you got onto queer eyes.

I just want to hear it. So that was 2015, built the show homes. So then right about that time my husband and I had also decided we wanted to move to L.A. Like we had been in New York 12-ish years New York, I realized I had Stockholm syndrome and I was in love with my captor

Yes I'm living in New York I'm like there's nowhere else you can live There's nowhere else Like New York City Where else would you live? But then I started spending time in Miami and L.A

and I was like outside I'm in love with my capture I've got to get out of here and there was just like a few like really bad winters and we're like we're going to L. Yeah.

So we moved to L.A. I started building my design firm. And so my design firm was becoming successful. And my publicist one day said, hey, I heard their casting Queer Eye, and they reached out, and they want you to audition. And so I did a Skype interview,

which I thought went horrible. I had the background set up all cute, my loft and everything. It was oh great. And then the power went out 10 minutes before. And so I had to, like, jump in my car and drive. Luckily, my office was only a mile away, but like rush to my office to get there

So I was like all hot and disheveled and red because I'm always red when I'm any happy, sad. Your favorite color. Yeah, yeah. My favorite color. And I thought the Skype interview went horrible. But apparently it didn't. They called me back to come to the in-person interviews

that was like their top 40 choices. Wow. And I almost didn't go. I had a trip to Spain planned that week. I don't know if you know the tile company Porcelainosa. They were bringing me over to Spain. Like a whole, all expense paid trip. all over Spain to, like, visit their factories,

but also to, like, to just, like, experience Spain. And I'm like, this is a once-in-a-lifetime trip. Like, I'm never going to get to do this again. I'm like, there's no way I'm going to get this show. I'm not going. But luckily, I was supposed to leave for Spain on Friday morning and audition, like, the cocktail audition, started Wednesday nights and, like, I might as well go.

So I went, it would well the next day. They're like, all right, everybody comes to this ballroom at this Hilton in Glendale. And it was, I sat around, I think, for 15 hours to do 15 minutes of casting and audition. They had these three tables set up with executives from Netflix, Scout and ITV, and we just kind of five minutes at this table,

five minutes at that table, five minutes at that table, and they're like, all right, so you'll hear from us tonight if we want you to come back. Wow. And so I'm like, okay, well, that. And I also, like, I had the flu. Like, I was like, I was like, this did not go well.

So. Can I just ask really quickly, did you meet any of the other Fab Five in that process? Yeah, yeah. That's when we all met. Okay. Yeah. I feel like it's a delicate, process because it has to be, it's not only like, okay, we're casting this person to be the

interior designer, we're casting this person to do the grooming, it has to work as a group. Yeah, yeah. There's a lot of things about that process that eventually probably will come out in one of our books, but it'll be in decades. Yeah, it's a lot. Fair. Fair. But like, I remember the first five minutes, Tan and Cromo and I, like, gravitated towards each other and and ended up just like Cromo was cold because he's always cold and he like took Tans jacket and wore Tans jacket the rest of the day

and the three of us is like really hit it off and we're always with each other if we weren't doing auditions and then eventually like Jonathan kind of twirled into it and Andy you know and we actually the five of us really did like each other and even before we got cast

I had a group text with just the five of us that was called FAP five I was like we're gonna get it I'm putting this out there I'm putting this out there But I think at the end of the day, that's what the casting people saw. They saw that, oh, the five of these guys, they actually really like each other and they really have good chemistry. And they're already rooting for each other. Wow.

But so that night, Thursday night, midnight came around. I still had not gotten no call. And so I was like, all right, I'm going to Spain. I think like one in the morning, my phone rang. And it was David Collins, a creative queer eye. And he's like, hey, hey, hey, I just want you to know. We want you to come back. We're going to see you in the morning.

And then he was like, without giving anything away, you're our first choice. And I was like, what? And so then I get there. Without giving me. Like, I get there the next day and they had eliminated multiple people from all the other categories. But my category, like, everybody with one person was still there. And I'm like, wait. Yeah.

Did you? You said that to everybody, didn't you? Which I don't know. But at the end of the day, like that day, they had us doing all this chemistry testing together where they put one person from each category in a room together and we'd have to do these like little fake episodes and you know at first it was always tan and cramo and i because i think they saw like we meshed with each other from literally the moment we walked in the room and then you know they'd every once in a while they'd rotate one of us out but the three of us were pretty

consistently in there and then jonathan and anthony were pretty consistently in there and like every time one of us would need to like lead to go out get rotated out or go use a bathroom like we'd notice more and more people were gone. And that ballroom was getting emptier and emptier. And then finally, at like 9 p.m., they're like, all right, we're going to take a break. And we all went out to, like, go use the bathroom. And we looked in the ballroom and there was no one else there.

And we were like, oh, my God, we got it. And they're like, no, no, no, there's actually another group doing a filming of a fake episode at a house right now. Now you're going to go do that too. And so after we filmed that, they're like, all right, you know, it's in God's hands now. and we're God. Did they really say that? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, they really said that. It's in God hands now. And then you were just like, yeah. I'm not going to call him out and say exactly which executive said that, but he was like, you're in God's hands now and I'm God. Oh, he's behind the way. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We were like, okay, okay, God.

And we, after that, we actually didn't. So I have to call you that from now one? Yes, actually. I still call him Mr. God. we actually didn't find out for a few weeks after that that we had actually gotten it and then just like a week later we got whist away to Atlanta

to start filming yeah wow because casting I guess took way longer than yeah it sounds like a huge ordeal I want to ask Bobby I need to know a little bit more about what happens in the room how the sausage gets made how is it that you

we debated whether I would say this or not how the sausage gets made I don't think I've heard that I never heard that it was funny as it's a common phrase I say it enough that I've gotten the feedback like just stop saying

I really want to know how does this sausage how is it that you can do what you do on queer eye in such a short amount of time. You've heard of magical elves, right? Yeah, that's what you have. I go to sleep and I wake up and it's like that. Someone else is doing this.

No, I would definitely say I do less now than I used to. Like season one through four, I was there every single day, hands on very much into designing every single little detail. I've had the same team with me since season one. Like they are family to me.

We vacation together. like they're everything. And so like I wholeheartedly trust them. And they know since we work together 24-7, seven days a week for seasons and seasons, they know the decisions that I would make. And so now, luckily, I get to focus a little more on being on the show.

Yeah. And I can let, you know, the rains go to them because, again, we're in each other's head. So I know I can show up and it's going to look exactly like I would have looked if I was there 24-7. Yeah. And we'll be right back.

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Well, and actually, can you talk a little bit about why? Like, I mean, I think we probably understand some, but, like, that's a lot to come home every day. I mean, the reason being is that we really did have those emotional connections with these people and, like, perfect strangers. And when you're having to not only bear the burden of their emotions and their trauma and the things that they've been through and having to grow, but also in order to get them to open up, relive your own trauma.

because our heroes, the way we get them to open up is that we open up about things that we've been through. And there's a lot of things that we opened up about on our show that we hadn't really dealt with in real life. But we're in the moment and we're like, all right, this person is not opening up. I need to share something about my life that will cause them to forget the cameras are there

and just be in the moment with me. So yeah, there was a lot of times where I would go home and I would cry because I had just ripped open, a wound that I had bandaged, I thought, for life, and I then had to emotionally deal with that. And for your question, have I learned, I just

don't have as much emotion anymore. Really? Yeah. Yeah, I've had to, yeah. I mean, I would still say I'm a very emotional. I'm still that person that, you know, cries a dog commercial, this and that, you know, I'm still, I'm a very emotional person. And other than

Anthony, I definitely cry the most on the show. but I've learned how to not let it destroy me every time. Yeah. That's important. Yeah. We were watching an interview that you did on YouTube. I don't remember the name. But I was struck because I think you were given some pictures of different queer eye heroes.

And you were just like, yep, this is this person. This is this person. Naming them off, like, no problem. And that really struck me. I mean, it makes sense. You spend quite a bit of concentrated time together. But, but yeah, that you really do. become very close.

They just create relationships. I mean, there's a lot of them that I still talk with all the time like Neil Reddy from season two and I were texting this morning. You know, there's some I've never seen again.

There's some I've never heard from again. But each and every one of us connect with different heroes in a different way on a different level. You know, some I don't connect with at all and I'm like, well, this was a week. And then there's some that I'm like, this is my lifelong friend.

You know, and there's others where like that hero that I had zero connection with, one of the other Fabers will have a great connection with them, you know, we don't always all connect on the same level. Yeah, so there's some of them that are lifelong friends. So sweet. Penn kind of mentioned this at the top.

He touched on the fact that you had made it clear to Netflix that you didn't want to do anything associated with a church, and then there's an episode where you do end up building a community center adjacent to a church. What was that like for you? Yeah, they, the producers, right? Because I remember, like, the very, before we went to film, the creator of the show and our showrunner came to take me to launch downtown.

and they were like oh you know talking about what I'm willing to do and how I'm willing to open up and they're like you know what's on the table for you and I was like honestly anything I am an open book I always have been I'm like just do not ask me to do anything with religion or the church that's like that is my only thing I won't do so the mama Tammy episode they wrote that down and they're like perfect so he said do church so the mom and Tammy episode actually aired as the first episode of season two but it was actually the last episode we shot so we shot season one and two together and it was the last episode and there was another person

that was supposed to have been in Mom and Tammy's place and three days before shooting there was a medical emergency and they pulled out and so the only hero that had been kind of vetted at all had been Nom and Tammy

I marched into their office and I was like no I'm done I'm not doing this and they're like oh no it'll be okay and it was like 1,000% I am not doing this I am not enabling a church to do the things to me to other people that they did to me like I won't to each their own but I won't be a part of it yeah Netflix executives got on the phone ITV executives got on the phone and I was still like no no no no I'll walk like and at the sun like we didn't even really know what the show was like the show had air jets yeah like we had

it was that day when we finished filming that episode we were like well it was great knowing you guys we'll maybe see you around sometime

like we didn't know what the show was going to be and it wasn't until somebody from Scout the original production company Joel he called me

he's like all right you need to do this not for the church but for all the little bobbys and all the little Jol's who are

sitting in those churches right now going through what we through you need to show them it can be better and that was the one call that got through to me and that's the only

reason why I did that episode. But yeah, me not walking into the church was real. I actually got in a lot of trouble for that and the funny thing is that became probably one of the most iconic scenes of the entire show. But yeah, you're disrespectful, you ruined

everything and yeah. I was just like I told you and that was actually the person that I told from that at that lunch. I was like, no church. Yeah. I think also I mean, it's an important or it's an interesting distinction that it wasn't just personal.

Your reasoning was I don't want to enable a church to do the same thing that was done to me. So it's about protecting other people. I think, yeah, it's an important distinction. Have you watched that episode? Yeah. How do you feel about it?

I used to watch them all. Okay. I don't watch them all anymore. But the new season is so good, Bobby. I think I've seen, um... I'm my own-worth critic. I can't stand watching myself on TV. I rarely watch.

anything that I'm in. Penn only watches things he says. He just put a yin-yang. It's why I don't watch my TV. I just watch. Just you and gossip, I want a constant one. That reminds me of

it was some Fox show. I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about where they were like, I was watching an episode of you the other day and the Fox News correspondent was like, I didn't do an episode about this. And he's like, no, I was watching an episode of you. And she's like, yeah, I never did an episode about that. It was like

who was on first? And it went on. On and on and on. No, see, that was actually, I'm almost certain that was a bit. Yeah, I'm almost certain. Now, it happened. It's Fox News. They're pretty stupid. That's also, that's also the common rhetoric.

But no, I am, I am, I'm 100%. I'm, yeah, I'm basically certain that was a bit. Now, that has actually happened. I'm sure. But I feel like that was, you know, it was a ratings play. Bobby, we're coming to the close of the interview, but I want to talk a little bit, or give you a chance to talk a little bit about your book. And here may be what you think about,

what is the importance of creating spaces, what effect does it have on us, our psyche? So for me, home has always kind of been about safety because not having a home for as long as I did. I really learned the importance of what that means to be able to come home and feel safe. And I think that translates into a bunch of different ways. but to me, first of all, home is about safety and feeling secure.

But also, your home is kind of like your phone charger. So if you don't get your phone plugged in at night or your court has a charge in it, it's not going to make it through the day. It's going to die. Your home's the same way. Your home should be that place that recharges you, re-energizes you. And my book is all about the intersection of mental health and design. So the book is all about figuring out who you are design-wise.

That's one of the hardest questions for answers for people to articulate. is like what's your design aesthetic we don't ask that in the book we're like what's your favorite sweater what's your dream vacation what's what's your favorite shape pasta you know those are the things you should think about of oh I love an elbow pasta all right I like curves you know I would probably like a rounded pillow or something or like I like I love a chunky sweater you're gonna love a chunky throw you know so those type of thing you need to fill your home with the things that make you happy and recharge you so it's all of about first like figuring out what makes you tick and those are the things that you should be

putting in your home you shouldn't be worrying about what's the latest trends or in magazines or what even I tell you should put in your home it's all about what makes you happy there's also a chapter in the book talking about either you or somebody you love who's lost a spouse and how to deal with removing their personal things from the home on on their timeline but you know and teaching them how to to keep a spot for those memories, but also to be able to move on. Because if you live in a shrine to the person you lost,

you're never going to be able to move on. When I walk into Homes on Queer Eye, there's so many tall-tale signs of depression. Totally, yeah, yeah. Laundry. Dirty laundry piled on the floor. To me, I walk in and I'm like, depression. It's not like this huge existential dread

of, oh, I'm a failure. But subconsciously, it's in your mind. You did not accomplish that. When that happens over and over daily, that starts to affect the rest of your life. It starts to affect your ability to think you can accomplish things at work in relationships with your kids, with your spouses.

So little things like that, I teach you how to look out for them and be like, it's not at the end of day. It's not just laundry. It's a feeling of accomplishment. Like when you get up in the morning, you make that bed, that is the first serotonin boosting feeling of accomplishment

you can get. That translates into how you interact with your kids when you're cooking them breakfast, how you interact with your coworkers you already feel accomplished you feel like you can take on the world also like a disorganized medicine cabinet

your bathroom can cause road rage really you know let's say your medicine cabinet like most of ours it's stuffed there's so much crap in there and you keep telling yourself you're going to throw away all those face creams that you absolutely do not use anymore

all those all those perfumes that have been in there for 20 years that don't even smell good anymore thinking about my right and I'm like We're cutting this I'm a crash on the way And so you get this new You know I don't even know

Nice face cream but some fancy face cream La Mere That's the one I was trying to think of I was like what is it La Marie? I'm like I know that one's fancy Anthony uses it And so you put it up in there And you get up

And the next morning you open your medicine cabinet To put on your new face cream And it falls out and shatters because there was not enough space for it. So you're shattered. You get down to make breakfast for the kids. They are pissing you off a little more than they should be because that's how you started out your day.

And by the time you finally get in your car and that person cuts you off, you snap. And you wouldn't have if you had just cleaned out your medicine cabinet. Yeah, it's like lots of small changes. It teaches you to take on little things like that because a lot of people's entire homes will be out of control and they're like, I just can't wrap my head around. clean it out and that's how they become hoarders at some point but you know like start with your junk drawer

you know start with something little and again that gives you that serotonin boost of confidence and accomplishment you're like oh i'm gonna go to my closet now you know don't spend a whole lot of time in your closet it's not a fun place to be you know in your closet then your bedroom and you know so don't take off more than you can chew because then if you don't accomplish it you get that sense of failure and that's a snowball effect yeah yeah oh it's so exciting can't wait to read it when is it That's the book, September 12th. There's also a lot of pretty pictures in there that go along with everything that we're talking about. You know, also, one of the reasons why I didn't do like a pretty design book is design books are really expensive to make.

You know, there's a lot of photography that you have to go out and do. And so since they're expensive to make, you have to price it high. And I'm all about democratizing design. I'm all about people realizing that you don't have to have a lot of money to make your home work for you. So I didn't want to have this expensive book. So luckily, I waited long enough. that I had a large library of my own projects that I've been able to do over the years.

And so most of it is all my work. We have a final question. We ask every guest, which is if you could go back to 12-year-old Bobby and spend some time with him, what would you do? What would you say? It's kind of cliche,

but then it's literally the theme song of our show, but I would tell me it's better. You know, don't believe all the people who told you you're never going to find love, You're never going to have a family. You're never going to be happy. The world will never accept you because they will. Yeah.

Beautiful. Thanks guys. Thank you for coming on, Bobby. I always love my voice on. I know. I know. Suddenly it's like, Wow. I'm sexy.

I'm like, the camera adds 10 pounds of gay, and the microphone reduces it. Actually. Yeah, yeah. Stitcher.