Podcrushed - Caleb McLaughlin

Episode Date: December 31, 2025

Caleb McLaughlin, best known for his role as Lucas Sinclair in Stranger Things, reminisces about his experiences growing up on screen, from Broadway beginnings to international fame. Caleb shares his insights on the positive dynamics of the Stranger Things set, the impact of faith and family on his life, and his new projects, including the animated film 'GOAT' produced by Steph Curry. Tune in for an engaging discussion on childhood crushes, career milestones, and the journey of a young actor navigating the complexities of fame and personal growth.   Make changing time easier for you and your little one… order Magnetic Me today! New customers get 15% off your first order when you go to https://www.MagneticMe.com    00:00 Introduction 03:31 Caleb McLaughlin’s Broadway Beginnings 05:40 Life as a Young Performer 14:49 Family Dynamics and Sibling Rivalry 18:55 Navigating Crushes and Relationships 26:14 Faith and Grounding 34:57 Reflecting on Stranger Things Journey 35:37 The Audition Process 36:26 Meeting the Cast 38:10 Broadway Connections 39:30 Favorite Characters and Deaths 41:24 Lucas and Max’s Relationship 45:43 Reflecting on Stranger Things 53:52 New Projects: GOAT and Shooting Stars 01:02:52 Voice Acting and Animation 01:05:07 Concrete Cowboy and Personal Growth 01:07:57 Final Thoughts and Farewell   🎧 Want more from Podcrushed? 📸 Instagram 🎵 TikTok 🐦 X / Twitter ✨ Follow Penn, Sophie & Nava Instagram Penn Sophie Nava TikTok Penn Sophie Nava See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada I was in a dance class There was this girl I really like And then like a week later Some guy came to the class And I was like, who's this? And then someone told me that was her boyfriend And I thought

Oh So you think you probably like maybe nine, right? Yeah, probably nine Maybe five This is a big difference between nine and five I know This is a pretty big difference also boyfriends at five.

I'm like, oh, no, my life's over. He's going to marry you. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're your hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava and I'm Sophie. And I think we could have been your middle school besties. Definitely not crying because all the cool kids are hanging out without us.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Welcome to Pod Crushed. My name is Penn Badgely. I'm joined by my co-host. Sophie and Sarah Navakavlin. Give a warm round of applause. Wow. Okay.

Okay, you can calm down now. It's a bit much. It's a bit much. I think it's official now after having interviewed, what, three of the leads on Stranger Things. We had Maya last season. We had Gaten recently and now Caleb. Yeah.

I heart the Stranger Things cast. I absolutely. I'm going to make shirts for us. I absolutely love them. I heart the Stranger Things cast. They are so sweet. The cast is amazing. All of them seem.

so sweet, but the show is so good. Just like season after season, I, I, you know, you don't have to say that. They're, they're not giving us any points here. I know, and that's how you know it's true. Sophie's also trying to get cast on the Duffer Brothers next project. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm going to zip my toe into acting. Don't worry about it.

Your family seems to have maybe some pointers, I think, at the very least, if that's going to be your plan. You can talk to your brother. Oh, actually, wait, wait, I do want to tell you this, Ben. My brother texted me and he was like, you need to tell Penn that he has to be in a musical because he saw your Sam Smith video. And I was like, unfortunately, Ben hates musicals. And he was like, no, that's perfect.

Every musical needs people who hate musicals. Otherwise, it doesn't work. I'm kind of like the person who grounds something that makes it work because I, because I'm not sure I like it. That's like my role in a project. Exactly. So you need to do it. That's kind. That's kind. I don't know why everybody's freaking out about my voice. I'm seeing, I mean, next to Sam Smith, anything sounds bad. But even in particular, it's like, you know, I have a good voice, but it's like, you know, a million people have good voices. I think it's a really hard place to be when you actually have a good voice because it's, because to sound great, you really have to try. And like I, you know, that was a first one take thing and I was not prepared to sing that at all. Like Sam's team suggested. that and I was like oh sure I guess so but I was like you know before we made the

TikTok I was like well the one thing I'm not going to do I know is sing that song because like I just didn't think Sam would do it so I literally didn't know the melody like I knew the melody of of course the chorus but I didn't know and so I'm really like I'm like it worked but yeah it was and so I actually was nervous because I was like, oh, now this is going to be the thing, hmm, hmm. You know, I was like, I was like, do I go for it? Do I make it really bad? What do I do?

No, it's maybe. Which, you know. Anyway, let's get to our guest. We have one of, I shouldn't say it's one of our favorites because like, then it clearly makes everyone else seem. But just like a joy to speak to, such a joy, such a lovely, refreshing breath of fresh air. Caleb Mulachlan, the actor you probably know best from his five seasons

as Lucas Sinclair on Stranger Things but Caleb was already a pro by the time he was doing this he was in the Lion King on Broadway from the age of 10 years old and then since starring as Lucas he's been in films like Concrete Cowboy with Idris Elba and shooting stars which was produced by

a little figure known as LeBron James and he's also here today to promote this new animated film he's got I see this produced by Stefan Curry which is confusing but it's called goat which is about a goat wants to be the greatest of all time don't take my word for it that's probably the worst pitch

you'll hear for it it's a huge movie and it's great and it's funny as is Caleb we were very excited to have him on don't go anywhere please stick around Let's talk about protein. It's all anybody seems to talk about lately, and for good reason. So many people want to build muscle and support their existing muscle. But getting enough doesn't have to mean eating yet another bland chicken breast at the end of the day to hit your protein goal.

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Head to RatioFood.com to find a retailer near you. Hey there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus. I'm back with a new season of Wiser Than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor, and their hard-earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91-year-old. old mom, Judy, to get her take on it all. Wiser than me from Lemonade Media premieres November 12th, wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's start at 12. We do know for you, you were, I guess you were, were you wrapping the role of Simba on Broadway, right about this time? That's 12 years old, yes. So you actually like Gaten, and it sounds like, like some of the other stranger things cast you uh yeah were a veteran of the stage by the time you know this comes around so oh i said yes too soon well no i no but i i would say that like that you become a veteran as a child pretty quickly the idea that you were doing this for at least a

couple years that you were you know you've said it was so strenuous so like we really just want to hear a snapshot of this of this world you're going in and out of which for some would be like you know kind of the end-all be-all. It is Broadway, right? And also, it's the Lion King. Yeah. I mean, at 12 years old, I was ending Lion King, and that was another, I guess, reflection on my past at the time where I'm like, wow, this career of mine, two years, you know, working hard, being here for eight shows a week. Like, what else can I do? You know what I mean? I mean, as a kid, you have this dream and you just go for him. I'm glad my parents were able to kind of support me in that, a lot of,

you know, parents can do that. You know, a lot of parents don't have the time to do that. I remember watching Lion King for the first time two years prior to me. Actually, like three years prior to me being in Lion King and seeing Young Symbol on stage and just saying, oh, I want to wear that makeup. I want to dance. I want to backflips and stuff on stage. Not thinking like, oh, I'm going to have this planned out or like, yeah, planned out career.

So I was just going with the flow. Do you remember they like the audition? Yes, I do. I remember doing like four or five auditions. And it was like with Broadway, people don't realize how critical the auditions are. I remember doing my first audition for Lion King and I was singing Just Can't Wait to Be King. And they were like, mm, do it again. And you were like nine or something?

Like 10, like I was 10 years old. Yeah, that was crazy. literally and and they're not enough soul and let's do the uh let's do the son let's do the sides and I'm like oh okay and then I think the sides help me so my acting helped me to get the next audition and then it was just like this process of just going back and forth and seeing what I can do the dancing if honestly they I working with kids they also see like their work ethic not how talented you are you a good person um and then my last Last audition, I was very sick.

I had the flu going into my last audition. I remember my mom asking me that morning, like, are you sure you want to audition? You can audition again next year. I was like, no, I have to. I have to audition. This is what I want to do. That's not the way Broadway works, ma. That's not the way Broadway works, ma.

That's not the way it's not the way. I was, I literally went to the audition, threw up in the bathroom, came back. Oh, my God. Laying on my mom the whole time. Wow. That is a pre-COVID world, by the way. Now they would be like, trucked this child out of here. Literally, I think about all the time. And I'm like, wow, I was putting people in arms away.

It's horrible. So bad. Caleb, I'm so curious just because, yeah, I haven't had the opportunity to talk to someone who like starred on Broadway when they were 10. What was opening night like? What do you remember about how you felt and just that whole experience? The opening in Lion King is one of the best openings in, honestly, any Broadway. Probably anything. Anything.

Probably, let's call it anything. Anything, right? I've not seen it, and I know it is. I just know it. I've seen it multiple times. It's so good. It's one of the best plays on Broadway. So, so amazing.

And there's this smell backstage. I can't really describe. You have to go back there. There's like a mixture of, like, makeup and like puppeteers, like puppets. Not puppeteers. puppets and like leather and like metal and steel and interesting it's like a workshop kind of literally literally like a workshop because you have all these costumes and a lot and a lot of uh like the the costume that um so my opening scene isn't the circle of life but the circle of life comes it ends and then my scene

comes on and it's like this harmonized uh orchestra and the ensemble have these like grass um uh outfits fits on with these skirts and they're like standing, they're strong, the woman and the men, and they have these grass like hats on, top hats, and they're all like in sync. And I have to like jump through, jump through the grass like a cub. It's an amazing scene. And I remember before I went on stage, I prayed. And I was just like praying to God and saying like, thank you. I was like, I want to have so much fun and to keep me safe because it is a dangerous thing to do. Honestly, like, the stage opens up. When I go out

on stage, there was like a big gap on my right side. So if I jumped off, I would have like fell into the pit and I could, like, a, think, 20 foot drop. You would have died. I literally would have died. Literally would have died. I had to act like I was

having fun. I was just close to jumping off the stage, but then I wasn't. Oh my gosh. I'm so curious. You said when you watched the Lion King, you saw, young simba and thought i want to be doing that i want to be doing backflips i want to be wearing that makeup and then hearing how physical the role is even just from that one scene i'm curious what you were like as a kid pre um lion king like were you very physical what was what was your

relationship to sports like yeah i want to know yeah um i was definitely an athlete i didn't want to be an actor i um really yeah i wanted to honestly i wanted to be i wanted to have a garage band after watching limineing mouth on Disney champion. Wait, watching what? A limineate mouth? Have you seen that? No. Yeah, oh my gosh, it's so...

I haven't even heard of that. Like, I'm actually surprised. Like, sure, I haven't seen it, but I don't even know what that is. Oh, man. Yeah, it's, um, super, it's probably like, super, like, Gen Z. Yeah, I guess it must be, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, I think it's, uh, it's not a, it's not a popular one. It's one of those, like, gems and, like, you have to know to know type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. It's maybe one of those signs that I'm definitely getting old. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. Yeah. No, yeah. That's where you say, I said yeah too early. Yeah.

Real, real, bro. Yeah, and I've played basketball. I played tennis, soccer. When did you start dancing? Like professionally or just like. No, just like, because it sounds like was it the portal into performing for you because it was physical? Yeah, definitely. dancing was the portal into performing. Because I danced at this, like, my very first dance school I went to in my town was called

Happy Feet, and I was like the only boy in the ballet. The rest of more penguins? The rehearsed. You know it's so funny. That was literally, yeah, that's funny. Just one boy and 12 penguins. I'm like, don't clap for that, Caleb. Don't encourage you.

No, guys, that is good. That's going to be the teaser on this episode. Flip those fins. Come on. How old were you at Happy Fe? I was like eight or seven or eight. So you with a bunch of girls in a ballet class? Yeah.

Yeah. There's actually, I think my mom has like a video of me kind of like, there's like, there's this, there's a, I can remember if I can remember. Not if I can remember. I remember. We did a recital and I have to like come out and. They're all, like, standing, like, in this line. But I have to come through the middle and, like, spin them, like, one by one. But, like, there's, like, one girl on this side, one girl on that side.

And I'm, like, spinning them. And then I have to, like, it's, it was, like, this whole performance where I was, like, the only guy in the class. And I had to, like, drum guitar, my leg or, like, do that. Wow. Yeah, that's, I remember, like, bits and pieces of what I had to do. They were making you play all the male roles. All the metal rolls, yeah, literally. Was there any, I mean, to be honest,

the way you're talking about it, the way you're reflecting on it, the way it feels, I don't get one ounce of like awkwardness, but was there ever any kind of like, I am a boy doing what, apparently, only other girls do. Like, you know what I mean?

Like, did you ever feel that? I mean, yeah, I feel like, you know, when you're younger, everyone kind of tells you, like, oh, that's what girls do. And I'm like, girls are cool. like I remember no literally I was I didn't even think about it until now I haven't spoke about this that's what I mean I actually didn't I don't want to force it and I sort of feel I feel that because it's like not one ounce of awkwardness and that's actually really refreshing that's where you also feel very genzy you know you're like yeah no that wasn't an issue yeah no it wasn't because my my dad took ballet when he was younger and he was like super supportive of it and and my mom of course and and they just knew that I love dancing I've been

moving since I was a kid like you can ask the cast you can ask gay and if there's no music playing I'm dancing my like heartbeat I don't know but yeah I don't really thought about like oh my gosh I'm the only guy I was like oh that's cool I'm gonna have fun like we're gonna dance and that's it yeah Caleb your family sounds really incredible I would love to hear a little bit more about your dynamic with your siblings your parents just any like fun little tidbits about your household. Yeah, shoot. I have three siblings, older brother, older sister, and a younger sister. And in my parents, both of my parents, yeah, I mean, what do you want to know? I know you know it's so funny. I don't really like know how to talk about it. Yep, they're great.

No, but no. How do you fit in in the sibling dynamic? I feel like sibling dynamics are so interesting and being one of four, like sort of what was your role in that dynamic? So yeah, the second youngest um so and then the two older siblings i mean i'm kind i'm not middle child but i am kind of middle child but then once i had this career now my older sister gets this middle middle child like uh uh i guess she has like the middle child syndrome thing uh but how do i fit in here i don't even know i mean we just kind of like well here's the thing me and my sister me and my younger There's a big age gap. Like, my older sister is 31 now, 32.

Damn, so old. Yeah, that's old. Literally. How old are you, Caleb? I'm 24. And then my older brother is 36. I'm trying to figure, I'm trying to. Wow.

Okay. There are big gaps, yeah. Yeah, literally. And he's turning 37 this year. Yeah. So, and then my younger sister is 20. years old so is it like of course as like my older brother and older sister they grew up together at their like crucial moments in their lives and then then the second half of the siblings grew up right

right right yeah you know what i mean it so there might be some sibling like not rivalry but like oh we're the better duo oh they're the better duo that's funny between the duos yeah that's actually that's funny i've never quite heard that like it's two it's two pairs it's it's funny it's kind of funny though it's because of the age gap because they're they're five years apart and me my sister are four years apart I think I did the math right 37 to 37 no 32 to 37 yes because he's starting 37 this year um the only podcast where we'll ask you to do math oh yeah I know um yeah I don't please don't do not like I was raised on a set there was no way I'm doing that I'm just an actor I'm just an actor did they I

We've talked to some people who, for the one child who got into performing early, it kind of shakes up the family a little bit. Because like you said, you were really lucky to have parents who could kind of like be there with you and be there for your rehearsals and performances. And I'm curious, I know there's some big age gap, so it might have been different. But how did your siblings react to your performing at such a young age? Oh, they were especially my older siblings. because before my younger sister came into the picture, they influenced me in dancing and music. They opened my music palette a lot.

So even though we had talked about it being like a rivalry, and it's not really, it's just, you know, when it comes down to like jokes at Thanksgiving, it's like, all right, us against the older ones, the millennials, you know what I mean? Melendial. Said with so much. I know, it's becoming a dirtier and dirtier word.

I know. I remember when millennial used to mean you're young and the coolest. Don't worry, it'll happen to you. Your husband, pick me. I know. I know. So funny.

Pick me. But yeah, they influence my music taste. And they honestly, like, put me on to a lot of different stuff, especially sometimes I feel like I grew up in the 2000s. And I was alive, but I didn't grow up in that era. So I kind of thank my older siblings for kind of putting me on to like the hits of the that error. Caleb, we have a couple of classic questions we ask everyone.

So one is if you remember sort of your first experiences around like a big crush or infatuation and your first heartbreak. And then the other is if you have like a particularly embarrassing story or memory from middle school, high school. Okay, there was this. So in pre-K, this is the first question of fresh. Yeah. I remember this.

The name was Savannah. I loved Savannah. I was like, just head over heels for her. And what's so cool, though, is that she knows this. And I met up with her and a lot of other my pre-K classmates when I was 18. And I said this in another interview. She's like, I saw your interview. My friend said this.

I was like, yeah. I can't say anything anymore, Caleb. I know, literally. I know. And literally in diapers just had. Head over heels. Was that her first time, like, was that the first time she found out that you had been head over heels for her in pre-K?

Or did she know before? I think so. I think that's, I think that's, I mean, that's what she told me. I don't think she remembered. Yeah, I just remember, I don't think I've, I don't think I've ever spoke to her either. Well, you barely knew how to speak. Yeah, that's so, that's so true. I just remember always being like, hey, you want a snack?

I was just a big deal. Yeah, it was. And she was like, thank you. So sweet. Yes. Yeah, I like to. Take my rations. Yeah.

Really sweet. What about your first heartbreak? First heartbreak. That was kindergarten. That was kindergarten. Yeah. That was kindergarten. Oh, I remember I was in a dance class.

There was this girl I really liked. And I had a crush on her. And I didn't know she. And I was like. I was like single digits still I'm not sure what age it was but I had a really big crush on her

liked her a lot and then I think it was like a week of just knowing her getting to know her or whatever and then like a week later some guy came to the class and I was like who's this and then someone told me that was her boyfriend and I caught so you think you probably like maybe

nine right? Yeah probably probably nine maybe five this is a big difference between nine and five. I know. This is a pretty big difference. Also, boyfriends at five.

I know. I'm like, oh no, my life's over. She's going to marry you. Well, no, but I mean,

I guess I'm just surprised, like who, who's having a boyfriend at five, but I guess, I guess the way kids, kids are constantly. Visit her in ballet.

This is a cool girl. I know. I guess it was like, the whole, you know, the school was like, there were so many different classes. And then I guess he was in another class.

And he was just like, bring her a snack. An old boy five and a half. And I was like, wait, no, I know this scene. No. So how about, how about, you know, so that is, that is really funny and sweet. As you get older, the stakes get higher and particularly around that age, 12, 13, 14, you know, that's when, now this is actually when you were on Stranger Things and so your

life had substantially changed. So that does what we find with, you know, like myself, young actors, you don't always get to have then the same set of experiences but then of course there's these universal things so even though even though your environment had greatly changed and it probably wasn't in school how about you know as you matured now you know you're welcome to plead the fifth because because post post stranger things and post fame you know revealing details has a different has a different stakes to it but do you have as you as you got older like those more formative like kind of first love first first first heartbreak kind of stories or first like super duper cringe like awkward like you know

yes and no it's weird not saying i'm i'm not trying to even hold anything back because i was in this like being on the show kind of and just how i worked and how my family my family is i was just very um like not coddled but like it was kind of like work yeah yeah and then you know i've you know i've had crushes i've talked to you know girls and i mean i've i've only been in one relationship and and that was when i was like 19 but up until that point it was just like a lot of like crushes talking um nothing nothing really deep maybe maybe maybe i maybe maybe i maybe You know, you got ghosted or something, you know, after like a week. It was all right.

I don't know. That actually sounds pretty healthy and refreshing, to be honest. We don't need to be so young to get our hearts broken. I was just curious, like Penn said, I think that's probably really healthy to have your first relationship around 19. And I'm curious if your parents had anything to do with that. Was that all, like, self-led? Or did your parents have any guidance for you around navigating? crushes and relationships yeah 100% they i mean i i tell them about every crush i have uh that's cute

yeah and honestly i'm pretty open and honest with them i'm like there's nothing that uh they shouldn't know like very very open to everything um from to my first kiss to whatever uh love life you know love life situation so i can just get advice because i admire their relationship a lot because um they've they're like they've known each other since my mom was like 21 and my dad was 18 so and their whole story is pretty wonderful and beautiful and they're old and loving each other up still so I always want to ask them yeah like they like before they met one another like how was it dating growing up and you know all of that and um I think uh for me I just never uh not that I'm not into dating because I think it's great I love meeting people I love meeting new people and

And, you know, kind of just learning myself as well. And then, yeah, so I think I didn't really, of course I've been like, ah, not heartbroken, like, oh my gosh, but like, oh, man, that was cool talking to that person, you know, or some, but like I haven't been into something really deep to where I'm like, oh my gosh, we did all these things and now this happened. Yeah, I'm, I think I'm just starting. I'm getting into the game. That's actually very cool.

It makes me think that actually the whole premise of this show might be very millennial. Yeah, yeah. Gen Z's is like, yeah, it's not that deep, man, sorry. Yeah, I love that. I'm not saying, because I'm also the only people to think, like, wow, he doesn't talk to anyone. But I have, I've had situations where it's been great,

but no one that has been like in my life, like, oh, this is my girlfriend, the family, and that was only one person. And we'll be right back. if you have got travel coming up visiting family heading abroad maybe or maybe you've got a dream trip for the new year imagine feeling confident greeting people where you're going in their own language rosetta stone makes it easy to feel more connected and have a richer experience wherever you go with 30 years of experience millions of users and 25 languages to choose from including spanish french

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grounded because you seem really grounded. And I'm guessing that it's not just coming from your family, that it might also be about your faith. So if you're looking to talking about that. It definitely isn't. My dad is a reverend actually. So I grew up in the, yeah, I'm a PK kid. I mean, he didn't even force. PKs can be crazy. For real. I know. And I, I wouldn't say I'm a crazy He didn't force religion or church on me or God on me. He would go to church. He would ask us if we wanted to go to church. And we didn't want to go to church and we wouldn't force us to.

And I kind of found my own relationship with God and like even my faith. This year actually. Can I ask this year? Well, I was going to say, maybe I jumped in too soon. I was about like, when did you find that relationship for yourself? My release from the beginning like. Was the opening night of Lion King when you were like, please don't let me fall 20 feet to my death?

He's like, God's got me. He's literally got me. I'm leaving God. Today's the day to me. No, but no, yeah, I mean, I've always felt a connection with God in my, my spirit. I can't even remember the day it started. I just, it was just always been a part of me. It's always been part of me.

But I think there's a different, it's always a different level to it. Because I feel like sometimes you live your life and you kind of like get into the world a little bit. And then you kind of stop praying sometimes. and you're like, all right, I'm praying before I go to sleep. All right, and then you wait. But then you have those moments like, wait, I need to pray and talk to God. Yeah. Down and, like, ground yourself.

And that was a lot. I did that a lot this summer. And I went to church a lot with my family. And I deleted Instagram and got all social media. And it just started, like, you know, grounding myself a little bit more and talking to God more. And it's been really replenishing, stepping into this next level in my life as in adult my frontal lobe is almost closing so i um i was like i let me let's like hey god listen listen i i'm back okay let's accomplish a few things before the brain is sealed yeah you know wait that's

actually is that possibly because you're you're you're i mean you are at now at the transition of a of a huge chapter closing you know i mean the show you've finished filming but like the show hasn't come out yet i know what that's like i've been through it a few times where you have a big show it's not really over until the thing comes out in a way it almost is like you can start this kind of this uh you know the processing whatever it is but it's but it's like you're really in a transitional phase were you conscious of that is that why the summer went the way that it did or yeah no i i think it just it went i just followed my spirit honestly i and i think i think the spirit knows what chapters in your life are closing and what are open and what's what what what is opening and I think um I'm just preparing for whatever that is you know what I mean I'm happy. The spirit knows the spirit knows this man is saying one of the wisest things we've had on the entirety of the podcast yeah from one of our youngest guests. I actually loved your use of the word replenishing because just this morning I was thinking like I haven't been praying as much as I used to in other seasons of life and I was feeling like guilty about it but I think sometimes the guilt becomes a barrier or you can feel like oh I have

to catch up like but this but like the divine forces are so strong that I mean you should be steadfast and steady but also like sometimes it can be like a like an instant replenishing like it is such a different power source than we're used to so I feel like that's the perfect word it's no yeah it is very replenishing I um it's like sometimes you get so caught up in um relying on worldly desires of just like people's validation and uh oh hanging out with this friend and what do you think about this outfit or something? Just to the smallest things, but when you're able to sit down and ground yourself and pray and knowing that God is listening, it's actually like, that's like the foundation.

Like that's the, that's what you can rely on any time of the day, any time of the year. And that's where I had to, I had to go back, I had to go to that place. Not that I lost it. I just had to understand what that was. And even outside of my career, but just who I am, that's who I am. like from the beginning of time so like i couldn't i had to just like as a kid it was just i don't know it was just easier to just be like yeah like i know like yeah this like i'm good like i didn't overthink a lot of things now i'm older i'm like okay i got to pay bills all right

i got to do this i got to do that and sometimes you get so caught up in like thinking that those um when you're let me explain it this way when your world When you start, I feel like knowledge, okay, let me, let me make myself make sense. There is, someone said this to me. I'm sorry, we're going to cut this part out. No, this thing, just as it is. This is good. This is good material.

No, this is great. Yeah, don't worry. Keep going. There's something about not knowing is so rich. When you say not knowing, do you mean not knowing what? When you're oblivious to life, thank you. Okay, my brain is working out. When you're oblivious to life, when you're a kid and it's just like, okay, I wake up, I play.

I go to school and do what I want. Ah, oh, yes. And then as a kid, I prayed and I believed in God. And I was like, yeah, and I was happy all the time. Maybe it wasn't tested. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, no, exactly. And your parents are doing everything for you, your laundry.

And, Ma, can I go to McDonald's? And you're doing it. But then you get older. And then there's politics. And then there's, oh, you start understanding yourself in what the world is and how the world perceives you. And then you're getting older. and you're figuring out yourself.

And then you're like, okay, what is everyone else doing? And you start internalizing different things. And then you start seeing what's going on around the world. And you're like, oh, my gosh, I'm being selfish. I have to be this good person. I have to care about others as well. Why am I complaining about my day when this happened to this person? And then people are telling you how to feel about yourself

or, you know, people are projecting, projecting. and it's just so many stories that you can you you have in your head and so much life that it kind of just becomes overwhelming and now that I feel like they're like the knowledgeable person sometimes could be like it could be like um depressing not depressing but like more you know the more upset you are and if you if you get what I'm saying yeah yeah yeah yeah there's some definite truth to that i think that's where coming to terms with what we call maybe the adult world the mature world i think it takes there's a period of like probably disillusionment there's a period of maybe a what feels like the breaking of a bubble or the ruining of fantasy but then to me you know one thing that you might discover as you get older which to me like this happened on my 30th birthday it was just sort of like a veil had been lifted and i felt lighter and some of the wonder, you know, really began returning, returning to the world that

had left maybe for like my older youth, if that makes sense. But something also occurs to me. You're talking about having this very carefree youth. I mean, not for nothing. Like, that's great to hear. But you also were working and you were working at a very high level on one of the world's most successful franchises of the last decade. And I don't want to make any generalizations. Because the only other person we've had on is Gaten. But I'm, if you two are representative of anything that was maybe the vibe on set or the experiences you were all having, there is something I have to say that is incredibly like bright and positive and warm and pure about the way at least you two sort of reflect

on the time and the times that you have. there. So I'm curious, like, you know, did you not feel like some of the more typical pressures that you might hear from child actors, not just in general, but with stranger things. Like, what was the, what was, I mean, I guess walk us through, like, how you started out, what was the audition process like? And then what was it like as you shot and then as it became a phenomenon? I know I, my agent sent in an audition about this show called Mon Talk that they're trying to develop, and they want to reference, like, 80s films, like, Stand By Me, Goonies, Jaws, all like the 80s, like, and E.T., just like the supernatural

thriller, sci-fi thing, and I did some sides, and I got a call back from that, and then I went into New York City to do a in-person audition, and then from there, I got a call back and had a Zoom, actually a Skype with the Duffer Brothers. to go to, to get like an invitation to do a chemistry read in L.A. And when I met them on Zoom, I was Skype for the first time, they told me Gayton actually got the role. He was like the first person casted. Really?

Yeah. And they were like, hey, buddy. I was like, hey, how are you? Nice to meet you. Like, love your tape. Like, yeah, thank you so much. And like, where are you from, like, New York? I just remember just going through the whole thing.

How old were you? 10 years old. No, lying. I'm lying. I was 13. Wait, it was before. You were 13. I was like, lying. I know. I'm like mixing up the timelines. I'm just lying. 13. I was 13. 13 years old. And they told me that it just kind of gave me an understanding of what was going on and what they wanted to do with the show and the process of it all and who I had to be meeting. And that gay matter has already got casted for Dustin. And I was like, oh, yeah, I know that guy. Hey, I don't live on Broadway. Yeah, so they were like, really?

I was like, yeah, we were both on Broadway, he was in Les Mis, and I was in Lion King, and we sometimes would hang out at this Broadway park where all the kids would hang out at. That's so cool. Yeah, super cool. So I was like, oh, and when I heard that, I was like, oh, I have to get this. I like that guy. That guy is so sick. Oh, that's awesome. I met him at the Broadway park, and there's these, like, you know, like, well, there's these, like, stairs going up to, like, the, like, this tent.

area of this like the jungle gym and there's like kids surrounding him but then like I was walking up the stairs and like the they parted ways and he's just like dancing in the circle they were being games and I walk in the circle I'm like hey and he's like hey want to see something cool and then he does this like shoulder trick and then I'm like oh shoot and he's like wait and he starts singing he starts singing Jason Derulo's um wiggle wiggle he's like oh my god do it that deep I'm up and he starts dancing it does like it was amazing and he's all right later I was like wow that guy's amazing he loves Jason de rollo yeah so that's the greatest story I've ever heard it's so much great and I remember it vividly and it's so funny that we're in this world together and of

you know growing up with one another on the show and I'm able to shared like my introduction to who Gaten was so that that was pretty sick. Did you two have a particular bond because you were coming from the same world? Yes, yes, 100%. We definitely had a particular bond because our parents were really cool and

and then just Broadway and you know, Broadway is not a lot of, it's a select few of people that love Broadway. You know, you have your like core Broadway, musical theater, theatrical the lovers. So knowing that like going into stranger things, like, oh, this is another broad.

Okay, so I know how to work with him. He's a, I know his type of work ethic and, um, the bond. And then also our parents were really cool. I knew Sadie prior to the show as well. Really? Yeah, she was in, uh, on Broadway. She was in Annie and we hung out at the same park. Hmm.

Yeah. Wow. Wow. This park is like, yeah. A good place for recruiting. Literally. We're recording nine-year-olds. Yeah.

Recruiting nine-year-olds to be in television series. Sci-fi. We used to play hiding Oseek at this Marriott where the moms would hang out at while their kids were at shows. And, like, in between shows, we would go there and, like, play hide and go seek on, like, the eighth floor of this Marriott in Times Square. That sounds really fun. Yeah. Like, I can feel the vibe, you know, like, that's sort of the, I guess, the subculture of these Broadway kids. That's cool.

Yeah, it is. It is really cool. I have two questions. Who's your favorite character and whose death hurt you the most? Okay. my favorite character um it was like hmm dustin is definitely like my favorite character or or steve and then actually rewatching the whole series um nancy's a really good character nancy's a really good just how she how she's a leader uh yeah from the jump she's really like

she has integrity yeah just great integrity and just taking the taking charge even like from the beginning she was like handy with the weapons like I'll take the shotgun oh shoot she's pretty stellar yeah literally yeah yeah I'd say probably Dustin though Dustin's so funny the game plays him so well um it's true he's great can I know a little bit more about because I as we're talking about characters I'm like oh my guys there's so many and I'm going through some of them in my head and I'm forgetting her character's name at the moment but the your little sister Yes, Eric. Erica?

Oh, yeah. Erica. Yeah. She's great. Every time she's on screen, I'm laughing. No, she's amazing. She's so good. Yeah, Priya is wonderful.

I love working with Priya. We literally have like a sibling dynamic off screen as well. So, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, she's. That's cute. Really sweet. And then whose death across the series has hurt you the most?

Was most like, yeah. Bob. Bob in season two. That was rough. That was so rough. That's the one that got me the most because. yeah he Bob comes out of the like

he makes it out and he looks at Joyce and like looking at her and then the demo dogs jump on him and then like eat his stomach out that's right oh yeah that's one of the most grisly dances well they were like we're going to eviscerate Bob literally we are going to do it literally

oh man if you look back on these many seasons of Lucas what part of his journey or what part of his storyline feels the most meaningful to you. I think his journey with Max, I think because when you see him in season one, he's like very voistrous, a skeptical person that's like,

you know, he's not understanding anything I'm saying. I'm trying to, like, he's always just trying to get his point across or get someone to understand him. You see him in season two where from season two to like season three and season four, he's the same person, but like Max is kind of like touched, soft side in him and you could tell she's probably someone that understands him and he understands her and understands her plight in her life because of her story of coming from

California and moving to this town and feeling left out and you know like we already feel left out as a like as a as a as a crew like we're the nerds we're the you know misfits right but there's something about max that probably scratches his brain the right way that he's just like he'll do anything for her and i love that for i love that for i love that lucas kind of like step outside of himself in the series and we'll risk his life for her and you know um just you know it's very very like he doesn't know how to be the right the perfect boyfriend but wants to be the best boyfriend you know like he's not the perfect boyfriend but he'll you know he he's willing to do anything and to make it to make it work yeah was it gratifying for you as a young actor to

also feel like your character's getting to have just this added dimension and new experiences because having a romantic interest does it does introduce like you know something new something new that is mature where you're how you just you just have like a different level of material was that like also something that you appreciated yeah no i didn't i didn't even understand it until now i think it always felt like a like i not that i understand it but it always felt like a like okay max and lucas are together but a friendship because they did like Mike and a lemon have this romantic relationship where

they're very lovey-dovey and they're always telling that's true yeah and Max and Lucas Lucas is always just trying to like make up for his mistakes they're having fun and like how they met like Max is so cool he she played she how they met was at the arcade she beat his highest their high score

and he's like whoa this girl's awesome so she was like one of the guys and then he like she became like his love interest and they started you know then they became a thing but then i and then she just and then he's just trying to correct every uh every moment he like messes up like in season three one of my favorite moments is when he's trying to give mike advice about like to 11 he's like dude just chill max broke like i think 11 breaks not i think 11 breaks up with mike and he's like dude it's okay you know how many times max broke up with me i ber she broke her five times you know how many times i got her back

I got her back every single freaking time. So you have to just listen to me. It would be all good. Like, it's a very, very funny, funny dynamic. It's true. There's something like, like, you know, Mike and 11 have this, like, tumultuous. Their relationship is more, more mature in some ways. But then I feel like Max and Lucas show this other side of love, which is like friendship-based.

They're like, we're always going to be together. We're good. We're figuring it out. We, you know, we know how to. work through dysfunction we have a lot of it we'll show you exactly literally literally and it's it's so it's so funny it's uh max is getting mad at lucas were the smallest things and literally like an old merry couple that's very true very true yeah so cute yeah whereas i think like mike and eleven they're more like romeo and july yeah yeah exactly and the monster and eleven is christ or something

and it's like you know it's real real it's yeah it's yeah Yeah, the drama's high. You speak about this, Caleb, like you're, it's really lovely. You speak about the show like you just love it. I do. Like you really love it and that you've loved being a part of it. What can you say that it's, like, how does it feel to be finally saying goodbye to this, to this world, to the character, to the world, to the people that you're working with?

you know i mean it's been what 10 was it 10 years 10 years maybe 10 years yeah i mean that's like for anybody that's a really long time to be on like say one project like if you you know if you have a normal job it's like you're working on that that file for 10 years you know or whatever it's like i mean you know that's that's that's that's a lot and then for somebody so young it's half your life yeah um how does how's that how's that feeling i mean like how you know to be honest with you I'm still processing the feeling. It's a part of the foundation of my life.

13 is the year when you're like, oh, I'm a teenager. This is the adolescence years. These are the years you grow and what you do and the decisions you make you, make you. It's the foundation of who you are. And from 13 to now, I've been on the show and it's shaped me and has molded me to the man I am today. and it's like it's a big part of my life something I won't forget you know and something I can never say oh I'm like there's always that one point one moment like oh no I'm not Lucas I'm Caleb and I'm like yeah but you did create the character in your growing the growing parts of your

your life and I I am Lucas I have he's a part of me in a way and like that's how I like learning myself I was learning Lucas at the same time like I had to put myself to the side to learn Lucas right that's a good point as an actor you can't like think about what does Caleb want to do like there's a lot of things I wouldn't do as Caleb that Lucas would do so sometimes I would shut out Caleb for Lucas and he's become this person in my life and um it's just it's a deep it's a deep feeling it's a deep uh like journey I mean we were at the premiere yesterday and um like at the premiere I'm looking at everyone I'm like wow I've really grew up with these guys we went all we went around the world we went to Korea, we were in Japan, and then we were in London, and we're in L.A.

And we're in room service. That's wild. We went to school together, but in different classes and curriculums, it's so unorthodox experience. Stick around. We'll be right back. Hello, I'm James Corden, and on my new show, This Life of Mine, I sit down each week with some of the most fascinating people on planet Earth. And Dr. Dre, to Julianne Moore, to David Beckham, to Cynthia Arrivo, to Martin Scorsese, to Jeremy Renner, to Denzel Washington, to Kim Kardashian. We talk about the people, places, possessions, music and memories that made them who they are.

These are intimate conversations full of stories that you've never heard before. This life of mine premieres October 21st, wherever you get your podcasts. cast members were nervous that the finale, the final season might have the same reception as Game of Thrones where people like hated it. So now that you've read all the scripts, you filmed it, how do you feel about how the plane was landed? Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, with tie, I mean, like, you know, I guess, you know, people that, what do you call it? Like, not titles, but people take one snippet of someone with something. The sound bite. Make it seemly headlines. Thank you. Yeah.

Headlines. No, we're going to clip this and at Netflix the account. I know. I know. And if there's anybody who can do it, it's me. Literally, you can. But I think what it was, it was misinterpreted that people kind of just put too much pressure on, like, Game of Thrones and like their last. Well, any show ending. I mean, honestly, it is incredibly. Someone's going to be upset.

My show, there's so many people in the comments, just like, we hate this. This is you guys, writers, writers this, writers this. Okay, you go write it. seriously bro literally you write it literally and it was one of those it was just basically saying that you know it's uh like game of thrones it was just critiqued to the like people critiqued it so much and we just like going into it it was like we don't like there's so many things that we we uh we thought about like we want it we want people to receive and then also we want to have a good time doing it and then not worry about what other people think you

You know, we came into the show not thinking about what are fans are going to say. We didn't have fans yet until the show came out. Yeah. You know, we came in with each other creating this piece of work, I mean, this piece of art. And it was just more about like hoping that the fans would receive it, not that we had a real fear of having a moment of people like hating the final season or the final episode. But honestly, I think even like, even if I didn't like it, and I watched it and it's amazing. The show is so good.

Even if I didn't like it, it would, and I'm like, oh, I don't think I had in my mind, oh my gosh, the fans are not going to like it or if they would like it. I feel like this last season was for how I felt in season one. I went into it with a family, a family that I created and I want to leave with that same love and that same feeling. I feel like all the other seasons were like, yeah, I want the fans to like him. I wonder how they're going to think. Even this season, going to these events, the fans have been so steadfast.

has been there for us for a long time so it's of course i can never not think about the fans without the fans it would be this experience so i'm very truly grateful for it but this last season was for like the family that i that i built you know that there's the family and the love that we built the past 10 years and that's what i thought about it i wanted to make sure everyone was supported and happy in the filming and even in their performances so i i think when that when you have that mindset um it doesn't really matter if it ends up being good or not. But I think because everyone came in with that same passion and love in season one is going to be extraordinary.

It strikes me the way you speak about it. There must have been a really healthy throughout the entirety of this series. There must have been a pretty healthy way that these kids, you guys were treated, you know, like not, you know what I mean because that means that means like both making sure that you're treated well but then also like not with

too exceptional of a treatment because that can also I think for children be a really strange position to be and it makes me think that the Duffer brothers must have given a lot of thought to that that the older actors must have had some sense that you just just I mean it feels to me like you you had something of like a culture of healthy

mentors around you is that does that we did honestly I I think I was spoiled being on this set. So I've been on other sets, which are great. But this set is they allowed us to be kids. They allowed us to grow up. They allowed us. So nice.

They're very nice. Even though we, of course, being actors, being child actors, you're working around adults and you have to, you know, make sure you're on set and doing the right thing and, like, behaving. But there was actually a clip that they showed at To Doom that you guys know about probably. Yeah, to Doom. And Finn, I guess they called Cut, like Finn did his, in season one, and we were in the basement, and they called Cut. And I'm watching at, like, Video Village with the Duffers. And I'm just, I just start clapping, really loud.

I'm like, yo, that was sick. But as Matt and Ross are giving him a note, and everyone's, like, it's like, it's a normal setting. I'm like, why am I interrupting this note? And I'm just like, yo, dude, that was sick. And I go to give him a pound. And I'm like, oh, you're a cheer. And I stand back and I'm just like, yeah. And I'm so loud.

But the duffers are acting like, I'm not saying a thing. And they're just letting the fit do his thing and giving him a note. And, like, that's the part about being a kid. And I think that's why the dynamic with us was so pure when we were younger. Because, honestly, it was a blurred line between being on screen and off screen, like, throughout the seasons. Of course, I got older. And there was like, all right, you're. You're an adult.

You can't be doing certain things as you did as a kid. You're not going to get that. Stop the slow clap. Yeah, stop the slow class. You just were allowed to be children. We know you have a new project coming up and we want to give some time to that too.

Tell us about goat. We haven't seen it, but we've seen the trailer. And what I was struck by is that there seemed to be some common themes between goat and shooting stars like the shorter player. It's not called basketball and goat, but it seems to be a basketball world. You've got, like, LeBron and shooting stars.

You've got Steph Curry and, so just tell us about that. Steph Curry is in Go. Yeah, he's in Go and he's producing it. Oh, wow. Wow. Yeah, so you're working with all the basketball. No, I know. I feel like I've manifested in this.

Steph, what? I know. That's crazy. So sick. Yeah. That's a thing unto itself. Tell us about Go. Tell us about your love for the basketball world.

Working with these great sort of tell us all about that. Yeah, I think it's so, like, it's so interesting. because even in strangers thinks I play basketball. That's right. That's right. Yeah, season four I did, but it's interesting because the journeys are different.

Like, Lucas went into basketball because he felt like he had to. He was trying to find himself mid-life crisis. Not mid-life crisis. Mid-life crisis. Mid-adolescent crisis. Mid-adolescent crisis, literally. And like shooting stars, you know,

you're playing on a team with LeBron. I mean, but not even you're playing on a team of LeBron. Like, what was cool about is that people didn't know the team that LeBron had. Like, Drew Joyce, the character I played, he was a part of LeBron's childhood. And LeBron wasn't. And it seems like a mastermind, too, like a little bit.

Like, I mean, I was shocked by that first scene where he's like, he's the one who got them on this team. Yeah, I didn't know any of that. That's what I'm saying. Like, people don't know, like, a lot of these, like, LeBron's a great player. But, like, in this story, he wasn't, like, he wasn't the best yet. He wasn't the best.

There was a lot of people around him that made him better. You know what I mean? Drew just was the underdog. He was the shorter player that didn't get the opportunity that LeBron had in, you know, in his journey. But like with Well, how true is it that he did this like, you know, this big scene you have where you're shooting threes and monologhing, which by the way, I do, I do want to hear about like the pressure onset that day. But like, is that, is that, how fictionalizes that moment? I mean, did Drew really orchestrate things that way at what age, like 15 or something? No, I heard he was. He was really, like, on it.

He was about his business. He was about his business. And he really wanted to make it to the NBA. And he loved basketball. His dad was the coach. And that's, like, he was really disciplined in that area. Like, he was, like, that guy. And he really believed it was important to them to stay together

so that they could all support each other and become the best versions of themselves, so that they had the greatest chance of being in the NBA? Exactly. I mean, I think what it is is just, like, even going back to the restraints, things like having the right team and knowing that team could make something of it um and like don't like don't change what's broken you know and like he grew up with those guys and they like the shooting stuff and they trusted him enough to then like divert they were going to go to a better school yeah that's crazy i mean that's honestly like for an origin story this guy drew is like a really he's like

a lynchpin literally in in in you know i mean lebron it's like i was going to say i was going to make a comparison but I'm like no there's no comparison like LeBron no I know I know yeah it's crazy you just like hear these stories and it takes a village to it takes a village for like a story of like LeBron's honestly like you know what I mean you can't do it on your own and I know I heard LeBron like lived with Drew for a couple of years I'm not I don't want to even you know what I'm not going to even go into deep detail because I don't I don't really know much but I know they were just really close and like his dad like coached the boys and like they like looked up to him like that was like their uncle you know so that in this scene where you are like the first major

scene you have which is really the first major scene that any character has like you as drew were like staking this claim with um isn't it dermit mohl yeah dermit mohran yeah great actor um so you basically you're like you're telling him what uh why he should want you all on his city team and he's skeptical because of your height um by the way the skepticism people have around average

height people in basketball is insane but no but what's funny though he was in high school I think he was 411 or like oh really or like five foot so and then in high school he then LeBron was like five not five like six

six already six foot but he was just really small I was average height at the two but he was like 411 so he was really small but now he is 6 foot 6 1 though but at that time I would understand he was a twig though

but yeah okay okay that's fair yeah but there is a clip of him at like I think a champion not a championship game or a playoff game where he's like shooting like shots back to back three shots back to back and so that's what you so in this scene I mean I know that obviously it's like

they can shoot it in a way where you have a chance to make the shots. But it looked like that was really you shooting threes in this monologue. Is that you? It was. And you know what's funny? I made every single shot and I'm not lying. That's crazy. That's amazing, Caleb. I think they were, okay, because I said

swear on my life, maybe one I missed, I think, towards the end. But like, there was, I remember, it was a long day and they were like, you have to make the shots. I'm like, oh, I'm going to make them. And I made every single, I couldn't believe in myself. That's amazing. Wow.

With the lines and all. Yeah. That was God. Literally. That was another prayer. Literally. Honestly, it was God because I was so tired. And they were like, you have to make these shots so we could live on screen.

And when I was doing the lines, I made every single shot around the court. That's wow. Did anybody give you your flowers? Because I feel like that. It was a lot of gasps. It was a lot of. Yeah. You must have felt so good.

You must have felt incredible. I felt incredible because we did it again. And like, you sure you can do it again? And my hand just felt like, like, watch me. Like, my hand was like, yeah, we could do it. I was like, yeah, we could do it. I was like, all right, let's do this. I was like, all right.

My hand just, I don't know it. Like something came over me that. It was insane. You're chiming in with little tidbits about the real Drew. And I'm curious, how did you approach playing this role of like a person whose story really exists. What kind of like research went into? Yeah, um, meeting him, honestly and looking at his mannerisms like through YouTube clips

from in and just talking and seeing his demeanor. I think people always say, oh, did you, like, did you, like I taught, I'm more of an observing than like actually having a conversation. What would you do in this moment? What would you do in this moment? I think also what's, because sometimes you know yourself, but you're not going to say, everything like you're not going to tell the full truth to like who you are like like the other day like gay and told me like i am sometimes i don't laugh at jokes i'll just say hilarious or i'll just do

ha and i'll and i'll make a straight face and i'm like i do that and then the whole cast was like yeah you do do that and i'm like whoa i didn't know i was an asshole yeah there's value in just a yeah literally i'm like oh okay and i didn't but i'm doing not realizing i wouldn't be able to tell somebody i do that so going to the other teammates that came on set i was like so how was drew and they would tell me stories about him i'm like oh okay cool and then looking at his mannerisms on um like you two uh like i that's how i was able to create the character and seeing how he interacted with like other people um and he it was funny because he even told me he was like my dude my god you started sounding like me i was scared for a little bit like you i had to like look around like oh is that

I was like, wow, that's crazy. That's good. I just, I just observed. So it was, it was an honor to, like, be able to portray his story and that light. But then with goat, even with the smalls can't ball and the being in the big league, I think what's cool about goat is that it's visually capturing, like the visuals are stunning. It's the same creators from Spider-Verse. Oh, what? Oh, wow.

Yes. You know, wow. Figures from Spider-verse, so visuals are going to be amazing. One of the best movies ever. One of the best movies ever. And this classic underdog story about just like people telling you you can't do it. But in this world is an all-animal world, all-animal action comedy. So the goat can be a goat, which is very cute.

Yeah, very, very cute. Very, very cute. No, but I'm serious. I like that. It's like when you make something so literal. It's funny. It does. I watched the trailer.

And from your first line, I was laughing out loud. And I was like, it's honestly so incredible to me how much. someone can convey. Obviously, like the animators are incredible. And so the visuals do a lot too. But like how much someone can convey through their voice. And it just made me curious, like, what was it like for you to to jump into voice acting after, you know, so many projects that are live action? I think I just wanted to expand my range as an actor and understand what that was. And I think voice acting was like that next thing for me. And because I love animation. Like my, I love Spider-Verse. My favorite animation all the time is Kung Fu Panda. I love. I love, I love, I love, like, anime. I love Jack Black. Like, Jack Black is so funny to me. Jack Black is a mixture of all those things. You know what I mean?

He is anime. He is animation. Literally. Yeah. Literally. So I was like, you know what? I want to do animation. And this came about.

And then I was like, this is the perfect story. I love basketball and your classic underdrag story. But my character, Will, is so fun. And his drain to what being great is, is, a fun thing, fun thing to watch for sure. I'm excited. Did, did Curry ever come to you and say, listen, this is going to do a lot better than shooting stars?

Just watch. The rival. He's like, no smoke, but. I know, I know. That would be so funny. Because I even thought about it, I was like, wow, I switched teams. I switched sides. Yeah.

Like in 2016, this would be, I would be like, like, people, I would be careful. You went to the heat. I went to the heat. That's what you did. It was what you did. Oh my gosh, yeah, because 2016, they were Golden State Warriors and Cavaliers were going at it. They were going at it. LeBron and Trevor Curry were like the talks of every finals.

It's wild. I mean, it's actually, it is crazy that you have, I mean, it's such a small fraction of a chance that somebody could work with both those guys. Yeah, it's just very special. Yeah. Very special, very special. I need to send you a wish list of things to pray about for me. because I'm feeling like there's a magic in your prayer. Okay.

You're getting these crazy opportunities. I pray for everybody. I pray for everyone. Real quick, we want to be respectful of your time, but I do want to talk about Concrete Cowboy, and I just want to commend you in that performance. Thank you. You did some beautiful work in that.

It's a beautiful story. You know, so it's kind of like, what was it like to step into a role where, you know, it's rooted in history and social issues and family dynamics? You know, you have the high-stakes fantasy, of course, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of, of humanity to it. But, like, you know, how was it to step into a role that had such historical significance

where you're like, you know, and then working alongside you just Elba. Also, Jarrell Jerome, friend of the pod, he's been on. Oh, sick. Yeah. Phenomenal actor. So I'm just curious. I'm curious, like, how, you know, just, what was, what was that like for you as a, like, kind of becoming a young man and maturing as a performer?

I think that journey is still something to be understood. stood. When you step into it at such a young age, you don't realize what you're getting yourself into. I didn't realize what I was getting myself into outside of just the art of it. There is pressure or responsibility you do have, like, as this person or this influencer in your position, and, you know, do you decide to take on that mantle or you don't, you know what I mean? Like, Do you want to be a good influence to kids or other people? Like, what do you want to speak up about? What do you now want to speak up about?

And it's like you have to pick and choose what you say and how you make people film. And then also it's like with your art, do you kind of just kind of like, there's like a difference between art and then also just like the personality of the celebrity. And you're just navigating that and understanding what that is is a very challenging thing because what you do as an actor is not what you're going to do. do as the actual person you know what i mean like i mean i'm not lucas is great but i'm not fighting demigorgians in the upside down so it's right i mean so to differentiate those two is of course you can but like understanding that people won't understand that it's kind of hard to fathom sometimes like sometimes

there's a lot of people that view you in a certain light that don't really understand you and they think they do and there you know you have a lot of love that and there's a lot of hate but you know sometimes in this position, you just have to understand knowing yourself and having that foundation, just going back to what we said earlier, for me, that spiritual foundation, having God in my life is the only thing I keep my eye on because I can't rely on it, all the other voices, the good or the bad. Of course, the good is good. The good is something good to talk about, right? But sometimes it's all just a blurred line. And I have to rely on how I feel about myself and how I think about myself and focus on God, honestly.

Beautiful. Well, we have our last question, which we ask everybody. If you could go back to 12-year-old Caleb, what would you say or do, if anything? Enjoy the journey that is to come. It's going to be a great one. Don't overthink. Write in your journal all the time. Write in your journal all the time.

I did, though. I did, but not as much as I. would have wanted to, but write it in your journal and enjoy it. Thank you for coming on, Kevin. Thank you so much. Thank you. It was such a joy to have you on. You can see Caleb McLaughlin's new film, Goat in theaters, starting February 26th, and you can watch Season 5 of Stranger Things on Netflix, of course, on November 26th. Pod Crush is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navakivalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency.

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