Podcrushed - Chace Crawford

Episode Date: July 13, 2022

Chace Crawford stops by and opens up about frosted tips, heartbreak, and being "okay" at football (this is disputed; we've heard he's quite good). He and Penn reminisce on their Gossip Girl days, while Sophie and Nava try to act casual. Want to submit a middle school story? Go to www.podcrushed.com and give us every detail.  Follow us on socials! InstagramTikTokTwitter See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I guess the shell is more about finding your voice. And I still, to this day, that's such an important thing to meditate on that. Like, I have a voice. And I, you know what I mean? And sort of what do I care about? What, you know, what direction do I want to go? What makes me, what makes me happy? What, you know, instead of all this outside input telling you what you should do, you know,

you're trying to sort of realize that. Don't listen to any of that. You know what I mean? What would my inner voice say, and it's still very quiet at first, and then it's tough to find. This is Pod Crushed. The podcast that takes the sting out of rejection, one crushing middle school story at a time. And where guests share their teenage memories, both meaningful and mortifying. And we're your hosts.

I'm Nava, a former middle school director. I'm Sophie, a former fifth grade teacher. And I'm Penn, a middle school dropout. We're just three beehis who are living and brooding. Wanting to make stuff together with a particular fondness for awkward nostalgia. Well, I struggle with nostalgia. I'm here for the therapy. Penn, today's guest is a good friend of yours, and I'm just wondering.

Who is it? Who is it? Who is it? Oh, my God, it's Chase Crawford. Okay, I feel like we have to acknowledge that Nava in a previous episode named Chase Crawford. She got to choose any person, but she named Chase Crawford as the one person she would offer her laptop to if he asked. And today we got to interview him. Yeah, that's true. I know, he said he's going to listen to all the episodes. I know.

I was like, oh, God, don't listen to the Jen Ortega one. Just skip it, skip it. Yeah, so I had a little mishap. I'm wearing a dress. And when I got in my car, I was, like, really panicked because I was running late. I couldn't find my wallet anywhere. I'd been, like, searching all over my house. And it was, like, on the driver seat in my car.

And when I sat down, I don't know what happened, but, like, my two bottom dress buttons popped off. And I could not go back upstairs because I was already running late to the interview. I'm like, there's no way I'm going to be late to this Chase Crawford interview. So I just had to come with, like, my dress, the bottom half of my dress is completely unbuttoned. You can't see it on camera, but Sophie and David can. Scandalous. Fortunately, I'm wearing biker shorts underneath the dress. But it's like, what a way to start this episode with like the person that I singled up.

I feel like you just posted an Instagram story the other day about how you went around the whole house looking for your Apple Watch and then it was on your wrist. Okay. Well, Nava and Sophie have given it away. Today's guest is none other than The Glorious Chase Crawford He's an old friend of mine He's an actor who is currently starring in the series The Boys And has been in films like

What to Expect When You're Expecting in The Covenant And he played I mean, hold on, I have to study the Wikipedia hard He played somebody named Nate Archibald In a little show called Gisip Gairal Never heard of it. Sounds like a hit. Stick around.

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We have no idea he killed. Stolen Voices of Dole Valley breaks the silence on August 19th. Follow us now so you don't miss an episode. So I just want to start off by asking you if you could paint a picture for us of what you were like in middle school. Well, yeah, it was an interesting, it is an interesting time for everyone, right? I mean, I was born in Lubbock, Texas, which is a small town in West Texas. I don't remember it. My first memories were in Oklahoma City.

So my earliest memories were planning in that red dirt out there in Oklahoma City. But we moved to Minnesota for like four years. But I do remember in Minnesota being four or five and realizing I'd moved to this place. And I remember having like a bit of an identity crisis. Even at that age, like very aware of like, well, what do I relate to?

Am I like Minnesota now or like, you know, and like saying pop? and then I was like on the cusp of being 10, like the summer right before I turned 10, we moved back to Dallas, back to Texas. Ah, okay. But that was the first time I remember being a little bit like down, you know, where it was a tough, you know,

so a lot of these kids had kind of been, at that time in fifth grade, they'd sort of been together since most of them since at least second or third grade, maybe, you know what I mean? And so I definitely felt like a, that for the first time, that pressure to like to fit in in a way, you know. know, as one does when you turn, when you turn 10, I just do remember, God, this awful picture. So my mom thought, I mean, she always wanted me to try and fit in as well.

Not try, but like she wanted, like, whatever, like, we all know what was in at that time. It was Jinko's. It was like Doc Marvel, yeah. The cap and hair pulled through the things like that and like the bleach. Highlights. The like, NSYNC, sort of. You got like, like, like, frosted tips. Oh, oh, okay.

Frosted tips. You know, you know, I went through the braces phase with that, with like the poca shells and the bad Abercombie. Oh, yeah, okay. T-shirts. But in fifth grade, you're just trying to, you know, read Matilda and get through, you know. Listen, bro, I never read Matilda. What? You didn't?

You're missing out. Yeah. No, I didn't. I just read it again, my sweet thing. So good. Did you play sports, Chase? I did. I played, I played in, even in Minnesota when I was young, I played Peewee Football.

I'm like tiny. That's right. You have a great. arm, don't you? No, no, the thing is like I, when I got to middle school, my dad was kind of like, listen, son, I don't think we're in Texas. I'm going to grow much older over 5-11 and 160. And so it's maybe you like golf? But wait, but wait, no, no, no. I feel like I remember you throwing a football at some point and just be like, damn. I can throw a football. Yeah, definitely, no, I mean, maybe not by your standard, which is like, you know, very high.

And do you know that Chase's brother-in-law is like one of the most famous. football players of all time, Tony Romo. I just need to like acknowledge that. I can't throw a ball like Tony, but he's one of the all-time greats. Brother-in-law, so it's not in the blood. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I got none of that. Even my dad was a better football player than I was. But, uh...

Wait, Chase, I have to ask, being from Texas and having your sister married Tony Romo, did she just, like, automatically become the favorite child? Tony became the favorite child for a while. The picture I have of your parents, Chase, correct me if I'm wrong, but is like just from that little tidbit about your dad, kind of redirecting you in the way that he thought you would be successful. And then your mom, like dyeing your hair, getting the cool clothes for you, wanting you to fit in with all like the fashion pieces.

I feel like they were really involved in your life. I wonder what your relationship was like with them growing up. What was your family life like? Yeah, no, it was interesting. I mean, my parents were great. My dad's definitely a type A doctor. grinder, you know, he's a very hard worker, highly intelligent, and my mom was actually a teacher as well, you know, masters in education and caretaker and, and, uh, was the fun teacher, but when

we're in high school, she would sub sometimes bring candy. Everyone loves, uh, everyone loves Dana Crawford. So, yeah, but, um, but I was a little disappointed by the football thing. I mean, I mean, golf was, uh, you know, I know it sounds crazy and nerdy, but like, in tech, like, golf's like kind of a big, you know, a big thing down there. I took it seriously. I play. I ended up playing on a team in high school. But I did miss that team. It was so individual. It was really that sort of got to me a little bit.

I missed the team aspect of a social person. I feel like I really need that in my life. And so, yeah, so I was always, I felt like I was always searching for those connections. Sometimes the detriment of my own, you know, I don't know if people pleasing is the right were, but I was willing to sort of almost be anyone to try and make those connections with other people, you know what I, you know what I mean? Yeah, I relate to her for sure. And in middle school, very like a mercurial, like, you know, type of a time.

Oh, yeah. When did you start playing golf? Oh, I think I was about 11. Yeah, about 11. And you're very good, aren't you? I'm okay. Again, I feel like your standard is very high. When you talk about sports, you're like a, I feel like you're very good at them.

I'm just trying to remember. I feel like we were somewhere and you threw a football. Back to the football. He has a tattoo of you. Growing a football. And I immediately felt like I was back in middle school and I was like, oh, shit, I can't touch that football. Like, I can't.

It was one of those things that sort of is interwoven into the school experience. And people put it, especially in Texas, put a lot of weight on competition. And the parents can get kind of caught up in this, in this, you know, competition themselves, you know. Oh, we've seen Friday night lights. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And that was not my. experience at all, but it was, it's a very, it's, there's a lot of weight put on competition in sports down there. So it was, you know, yeah, I was, you know, I was kind of on the golf team, seventh grade braces, the blonde highlights. And, you know, it was, uh, not my greatest phase. I mean, it's a very fragile phase for me. You're supposed to do all these, all this schoolwork and kind of know what you, what you want to do and, and, and, and be good at math and get all these things when, when you're also sort of dealing with falling in love for the first time, or, you know, your concept of love is at 15 or 16

and dealing with those feelings as well, which is a whole other, you know, a whole other ball game. So let's just go there for a second. Yeah, let's go there. Was your first heartbreaking this time? I was probably 14 to 15, yeah. 15 was when it like all came crashing down. Wait, tell us about it.

A girl was a best friend back in the glory days of like dial up phone with the cord and like you're on the phone for hours, you know what I? I mean, and it was just funny how, like, how, how you realize really quickly that, like, what you perceive to be reality could not be someone else's reality, right? As far as, like, you know, romantic feelings for someone else. And that was tough to have that correction happen. You know what I mean? I feel like, I think I wrote, like, a really sappy, like, note, you know what I mean?

Like a page or maybe three page long, like, crazy thing. And it probably, like, scared her off. But, yeah, that was, I remember. remember that being a very difficult thing to go through at that time while also juggling school because at the time that felt like such a meaningful, it was like the most meaningful relationship in my life as a best friend as well. So that was, you know, and I didn't really have anyone to walk me through that either, which was, which was interesting. Trying to have to like piece it together myself was, was tough. Yeah. You know, at that time, those feelings

are so real. And I think sometimes we just forget, like we can be dismissive, like, oh, but you were 15 but like no like you're 15 like that also formed you like that has like a profound influence on yeah they can it can leave a mark for years for years totally how long do you feel like that first heartbreak left a mark on you how long were you sort of grieving it i feel like that left the mark on me probably for my entire high school experience wow yeah yeah and that can also i feel like they can also shape the way you deal with rejection in the future you know what i mean it's a it's an interesting thing you know yeah Did it feel like where you were from in Texas was a small town when you came to L.A.?

Yeah, it did, actually. I mean, again, like Texas can be such a bubble. I mean, it was, I mean, and going to school from fifth grade from 10 to 18, I mean, those people know all the stories about you, you know what I mean? And all the shit you spilled all over yourself at lunch, whatever. I mean, it's like you can be, I did feel freer. I finally felt like I was becoming more myself and branching out. But then I basically, I got to college and everyone felt like they knew exactly what they

wanted to do. And it scared the shit out of me. I mean, I thought I was sort of like, I don't know what I want to do with my life. And I feel like I should know this. And I remember feeling that so strongly at 18. You know what I mean? You can't really. Well, you also had it at four and five years old. Right. Right. Right. Right. No, no, no. Sorry. I mean, I'm both making a joke and serious. Like, crises of identity are very serious. And when you move and you're in these new environments, they're very, it's, it's huge. I guess the like the impetus for me, like finding acting like in in high school I got into art I was I was a drawer and a painter and I loved photography we did like black and white had a had a dark room lab there and those were some of my favorite classes and so I always kind of had this side to me that was just creative and I decided to take I took a year off of school and I was while I was working I was valeting cars but I also ended up going to this acting class and it was it was it was it was the miser technique you know the repeat and everything and the whole thing thing. It was so abstract and weird, and I loved it. I really loved it. It was kind of therapeutic and

like this weird cathartic thing. And I thought it was great. And I was also armed with sort of naivete and got a very small agent and started to send me out on auditions from there. And yeah, there was like a two or three years of doing that of doing that. So was acting really not on the radar before that? You were like, no. I mean, at first I thought this is something I can just kind of try to break out of my shell while also trying to figure out if I went back to school like what i would what i would do right i mean i guess in my head i'm like oh just go back and like do business or whatever uh you know classes wait when you say break out of your shell what do you what do you it's not like i don't know what you're talking about right right right i guess the

shell is more about finding your voice and and i still to this day that's such an important thing to meditate on that like i have a voice and and i you know what i mean and in and sort of what what what do i care about what you know what direction do i want to go what makes me what what makes me happy what you know, instead of all this outside input telling you what you should do, you know, you're trying to sort of realize that, don't listen to any of that. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's hard not to hear voice say, and it's still very quiet at first, and then it's, it's tough to find.

My experience has been, I imagine you share at least some of this, that it's like, you know, in some ways you're empowered, in some ways you're finding yourself, in some ways you're finding your voice, quote, unquote, but in others you're, I mean, you're literally giving voice to other people's words all the time. clothes that are not yours you are a place in a position where people assume they know you and they actually don't and it can be a really what's the word it's like it's orienting too yeah yeah it's a disorienting there because sometimes your voice can get lost in this avatar right and you can appear to be quite empowered in a few ways but then you're quite disempowered feeling at least in in the ways that matter

most you know you can be like super successful but kind of getting swallowed up and like somebody else's voice. Well, I remember you talking about this, too. I mean, we were so young when we did when we did Gossip Girl. And I remember even talking after, like maybe a year to after, you know, we had all kind of gone. And you said something to the effect of like, oh, man, yeah, like, I'm still just sort of processing all of that, as I'm sure you are too. And it, and you're always so intelligent in depth. It made me, I'll never forget it because it made me think.

I think, you know, I was like, wow, maybe I, I haven't really, like, fully processed. we just what we went through because it was so it really was crazy I mean that that that whole thing people do feel like

they know you and they also feel like hey you have a billion dollars and you're you know you're sat and you have the perfect thing going when it's really you know there's all these other layers

interesting layers to it and we were like that was our those were also kind of our college formative years it was yeah I mean we were still kind of kids when we got out you know not entirely i was 25 but but yeah it was i mean i feel like i'm still i feel like i feel like

i'm finally at a point where i'm able to reflect on specifically the gossip girl years and synthesize what i'm grateful for and what i can love about it and just accept the frustrations i had at the time as just like the struggles of youth you know being being being made extreme and magnified by having, I mean, when we first moved to New York City, our faces were on billboards in Times Square, you know? And I remember the time just being like, yeah, there's like that processing thing.

There's so, there's no time to process it. Because, dude, we were, I mean, I feel like from, what day was that? It was, it aired on September 19th. Oh my God, that's right. That was like the exact date on Tuesday. I remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because it was on network television. And then from that day on, man, until that thing ended. I mean, has anyone ever stopped calling me, Dan? Not really. Not really.

That was 15 years ago. And it's like, you know, and I mean, but at least for those next six years, it did not stop. Right. How can I, like, make it succinct? I mean, it was just such a wild time.

It was so novel as well. In New York City, I have such like this romanticized love for. I still do. I'm still in love with that city because of it. But we were given the keys to the city at a crazy time, and there was a lot of, you know, a lot of parting and, you know, and access to different things that you can sort of get caught up in.

That was at the same time okay in your early 20s and a lot of fun. But also, you know, yeah, you are kind of like Mickey Mouse to Disneyland. You know, people see you and you're like, this character in this city. Wow, that's true. That's actually funny. That's a funny metaphor. You are like Mickey Mouse at Disneyland, which is to see. say, which is to say you're a faceless person inside of a suit

who cannot be seen or heard. Yeah. Who's deeper than we ever thought. Who everybody's taking pictures with. And inside you're like, yeah. And it did create for me at least. I'm a private,

I'm a little bit more on the private side. I mean, I'm extroverted, but it created a little bit of paranoia. I don't know about you, Penn. But I feel like outside looking in, you feel like you dealt with it amazingly. But I definitely had gotten a weird paranoia about photo. I think on the inside

we had a lot of the same experiences and then maybe in some of the most superficial ways we had slightly different experiences because like I never felt that whole keys to the city thing I felt like I didn't know how to get into the club I didn't know how to get not on the show but into literally the clubs

I remember like I because you know I didn't go out as much as the rest of the crew and and I often felt uncomfortable because I didn't feel like I was as easy able to get in. I mean, the one time I named dropped myself to get into, I mean, I did it once, because, like, I wasn't being

let in, and I was like, oh, man, and I was actually going out with Matt Settle. It was, I was going out with Matt Settle, and he really wanted to have fun. And, and so we go to the box on, like, a Tuesday night or something. And we had just shot there. We had just shot an episode there. And I wasn't being let in, and I was just like,

and I didn't really want to be there, you know, but I was, like, trying to show Matt a good time. And so I talked my way in, by showing them my IMDB. You know what I mean? And so this is what I mean. The story actually gets kind of funnier and worse that I'm not going to tell on a podcast.

But I'm like this is, and I mean this in the best way, Chase. It's like it's funny because I actually feel like we can just laugh about it now. But I suspect that you have never had to show a doorman your IMD to get into a club. And I'm just saying that I have, and I don't know why it's different. I don't, like, am I right or am I wrong? Have you ever had, have you even, have you?

It was because I went out way too much. It was a problem. Everyone knew you by name. Yeah, which is also another problem. I was jealous of you. And, no, but I have shown, I have shown someone in the grocery store in my Wikipedia page because I didn't have my ID. And I was trying to buy, like, a case of beer or something like that.

And I was like, oh, God, this feels weird. I got to, this is my age. Is this count? You know what I mean? That's right. No, but man, I know I hear you. And yeah, there was that thing of like, I don't know. It was also like that thing for me of like, I guess this is what we do in New York on the weekends.

Like this is how we'd be social, which kind of distorted my reality of that for those years afterwards. You know, it was like, wow, that wasn't real life. That wasn't a normal Friday night, you know? No. And we were in our own way ushered into these. roles that everybody expected us to fill you know right and i think and i mean what you're talking about that people pleasing thing which again like i very much have i think a lot of actors actually naturally have this because you're you know you're just you're trying to please a lot of people frankly

and i mean you always struck me as somebody who constantly found themselves surprised to be a center of attention and very uncomfortable with it and they're a very true assessment Yeah, because, and I mean, and I would imagine that started once you started growing, once you, I mean, I know you could, you know, throw a snap. What do you say? How do you, what? Snap. You snap a, throw a spiral, throw a spiral. We'll edit it, Penn. Say it again. Say it again. No, but what is it? You snap. What's the, what's the term? You say snap in a way. What's the, what's the term? You take the snap and, and, uh, and I guess. I sound like such an idiot right now. You said it again. I'm just trying to, no, but really, like, I feel like, you know, because, like, people think that I am a symbol of something or objectified, and I think you have that experience even more, like, even more than, and I mean, I have it a lot. So, I don't know, man, I'm just saying, like, I always really admired the way you just were so gracious with, like, virtually everybody in, like, every scenario. because I think that and you know I I you know it's not like maybe it's not kosher for you to say

yeah that's hard but I'm saying I watched that and I was experiencing myself but you were experiencing it even more and I think that and I and I know what that's like and I actually think that was hard and I think you dealt with it really graciously we were all you know you and all of us included trying to find our way and and and and but yeah like again like that wasn't a normal way to meet, you know, to meet, to meet, to make relationships, to meet girls, to do anything. It was so normalized. It's like, okay, I just want to do this on a Friday night and get in anywhere, you know, and kind of hop around. And that was, it was intense, man. It was, it was, it was, it was, it was a lot. And, yeah, and then after, you know, when it, when it, when it all sort of ends, you know,

I, I, I, I kind of describe it like, like, like, again, like an athlete or a quarterback or someone getting, getting injured or ending, ending, ending their career, like, instantly. And on your identities just kind of like pulled out the wugs pulled out from under you like all those crew members I've never heard anyone describe it like that that's incredible yeah like the hair and makeup girls you like you wake up and that and that and Richie the driver's out there and you get to have your morning like jam session with him and it's you're laughing and talking sports and you get hair and makeup and those girls are your therapists you know we're all laughing it was just such I mean I I I we had so I mean you know for all the crazy stuff went through we had such a good

time. I mean, I, we all really had some good laughs and good early mornings and good late nights on set. I mean, it was a special time. And to have that pulled away at the end of it, too, for me, was really jarring to have to move back or, you know, I felt like I had to move back to LA. I definitely didn't. But to move back and be doing it in back there, I was, I didn't handle it too well for a while. All right. So, um, let's just, let's just real talk as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. That dates me, doesn't it? But no, real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a one to ten? And I don't mean the, in the sense of vanity, I mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less

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So I have heard that you and Ed live together and I remember actually when I heard it was like several years ago before I even met Penn and I remember thinking like why didn't Penn live with them? Obviously I didn't know anything about like the industry it's not like normal for actors to necessarily live together but I have thought about it and I've thought about how the plot of the first season was like Penn is lonely boy

and Nate and Chuck are like you know really good friends Penn's the outsider, but Serena draws him in. And in real life, Penn and Blake were dating. You and Ed were living together. And I'm just wondering, like, how did that impact dynamics? And Penn, did you feel like an outsider? Well, I survived, for one thing. So that's good.

I'll tell you what it is. I remember what it was because we all got there. We're staying at the Ian Schroger Hotel. What is it? The Gramercy, which was, yeah, we shot the pilot and we stayed at the Gramercy. It was a beautiful hotel. It was beautiful, an amazing little bar with a pool table down there, and we're all sort of getting

to know each other. Chase is also killer at pool. Chase is good at all. We love a lot of pool games in New York. But Penn was sort of late to the, we had heard they were trying to, you know, get him in there. And I mean, I don't think Penn showed up

to like the day before shooting or maybe we'd already started filming. And so, you know, I had had a little bit of time. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so Ed, we had simply just had a dinner. And I think Ed was so, had never really spent any time in America.

I didn't even understand New York prices, but we were kind of a dinner like, yo, do you want to like, it feels like we should probably, it's expensive. We should, like, do you want a room together? I mean, he's like, yeah. He never even saw the place. Me, my mom went like the summer before after got picked up. And third place we looked at, we signed it. I had my dad, like, loan us the first and last month since security deposit rank because we had no money.

I mean, we had to like pay my dad back and never saw the place. He just showed up in New York and we were sleeping. Like, I think he slept to open his suitcase and slept on it. Like, one of the first night. You know what I mean? It was like that. It was like 18, 20, you know, 1921 years old, but yeah. Penn, did you feel like an outsider?

How did that sort of dynamic play out? Yes and no. Not really, I mean, see, I'd already been in television for so long. I was like really unsure about whether or not I wanted to continue. And so I went into it being really unsure and conflicted, which is evidently my M.O. And so I just was. like, you know, I think I was just socially anxious. I didn't necessarily feel like an outsider. I mean, that word now, I'm just imagining the way people will hear this and interpret it.

I know, they'll be like, lonely boy, actually lonely. Only lonely, still lonely, still a boy. Very lonely boy. It's like no news of any podcast, just Penn Badgley is still Dan Humphrey. yeah um nah you know it is i think what is fascinating is how this dynamic that exists in your you do weirdly start to in some ways echo the dynamics of the show you're on i don't know what that is exactly that's like a that's that's almost maybe more of like a niche psychological phenomenon that would be interesting to explore but not here but it is i mean look i don't think anybody can be cast that far outside of their quote unquote type i mean unless you're obviously playing against it for a

reason but i don't think anybody can really i mean until you're i don't know much older and you're like a committed character actor in some capacity i think you know when you're when you're 19 20 years old you're gonna get cast as some kind of version of yourself but then made very two-dimensional and simplified so i so i think we were all just conscious of you know how people perceived us that that was definitely you know i mean the the greatest struggle i had with with uh with gossip girl was simply that people thought i was like dan and any in any aspect of me in any aspect of me that did resonate uh or did did share anything with dan that they could that could then lead people to just ever more assume like oh yeah he is like his character you know that is that

is that is basically when you're on a show like that and i'm not saying it's right or wrong it's just it is like one of the most frustrating and disempowering feelings in the world you know know, to you. I'm not saying in the real world, I'm saying to you when you're going through it. it's it actually it puts you back in middle school and you feel like these you know your feelings are are all you have at the end of the day in the beginning of every day and people don't realize that when they're saying it they think it's like unintentional and harmless and they're just like oh yeah you know but it is it is yeah you're right man yeah so i mean for me it's like again that was the processing i just feel like i went into it already being like oh shit this is gonna um this is gonna be interesting you know and and uh so So that's why the second I got out of it, I was like, okay, I needed to deal with that. Right, right, right. We all did, though, man. I mean, yeah, it was very, very intense.

And again, it wasn't, a lot of aspects of it weren't real life. I mean, you know, we were sort of on display out there for a while. So, yeah. You know, on TikTok, there are a bunch of intimacy coordinators from Hollywood who, are becoming pretty well-known on TikTok and posting videos about what it's like in that industry, what they do with actors to help them through intimate scenes. And then there are other actors who will come on and talk about how much they wish they had experienced that. They had had an intimacy coordinator. And just thinking about, like, from the little I know of Penn having to do

really intimate scenes on you, I know both of you had to do intimate scenes on Gossip Girl. I'm wondering, I have been thinking, like, for women, I think it's a little bit bit more acceptable to speak up. It's hard, but it's becoming more acceptable to say, this is making me uncomfortable. And I wonder if that's also the case for men or if there's more of an expectation that you'll just go for it, no matter how uncomfortable it is. I will say, I think you're right on that. I think it's changing, but I do think the expectation is there with that, where there's this like expected to sort of, you know, be put in a corner, oh, do it. You know, they're good. He's good. He's good. You can do whatever. But I will say this is the

first, this past season, which we shot 21 in Toronto, it was the first time. I'd worked with an intimacy coordinator. And she was amazing. Yeah, she was so great. And we just basically took a time, you know, an hour or maybe an hour and a half a day or two before the scene. And it was nice to get it choreographed. And, I mean, literally choreographed and also kind of blocked the scene, rehearse the scene.

Hey, and even the actor, it was so natural with the actors, she's amazing. Katie Breyer, yeah, it was just, I'm going to do this now, and it was just, so when you show up, it was all, it wasn't like, okay, block and here you go, and then action, and it wasn't like a surprise. I think those things, especially dealing with something like that, it has to be choreographed, and it was just so much nicer to have the coordinator come in before, are you good, this is what you're going to be wearing, you know, here in this, you know, in this situation, I was like, this is awesome, you know, I know, very comfortable. I'm like, how has this not happened since the dawn of you know, of film.

It was just so... Well, because cinema has its origins and exploitation of people, is why? I have been reflecting. I feel like women, in podcasts and other interviews, I often hear people ask women their thoughts on the Me Too movement and whether it's changed anything.

And I never heard an interview or ask a man that question, and I think it's relevant to both men and women. So I'd like to ask both of you, how do you feel about the Me Too movement, have things changed? Are they changing? Yeah, I mean, I think, I definitely see the changes.

I think it's just good to, to be honest, to bring stuff into the light. You know what I mean? Like, why does all these things need to be covered up? Our people and, you know, all the enabling, you know, that's happened and sort of abuses of people in positions of power. I think it's fantastic that that conversation has been happening. I think those things are slowly being dismantled. I mean, I know it's probably not a perfect process or it's, you know, can maybe be

messy in one way or the other, but it's, it's, it's for the best to bring that into the light, you know? I mean, probably even the, the fact that intimacy coordinators exist is probably Yeah, that's definitely a product of that. It definitely is. Yeah, right. I mean, there's no doubt. You've probably dealt with it more than I have on your show. I only had like a couple scenes last year. My show's weird. One was with an octopus. I was about to say, didn't you have a scene with like a sea animal? Yeah, yeah. Right. Got us through it, Chase. How did you? Exactly what I signed up for when I got in the business. I'm like that I've made it. This is exactly what I knew

I wanted to do. But no, but yeah, that was always interesting. So there was like at least a laugh and a smile with that, with that coordination. Yeah, you just have to. Did you actually get that coordinated? We did get that coordinated. No, but that's real because like I have scenes where I have to, I have

to fake masturbate. You know, I was going to say feign masturbating. I don't know what sounds weirder. And even that, it's like, you know, I realized I've now done it so many times on camera um it's it's a strange you don't think it's going to be that big of a deal you read it it's actually kind of funny or it's creepy but it serves a story it is what it is and then you discover in front of a crew of people with a camera on your face knowing that like you know in all

in all likelihood millions of people are going to see this you're simulating masturbation and it's very i have to say sometimes those scenes are are harder than with a person because Because it's just like, all right, this is what I'm doing. You know what? You have a moment to the cameras. Yeah, I mean, this is like, this is what I'm doing. There's nothing distraction you from that camera being right there. And it really, it's like the feelings that go through my mind when I've had to do that is like,

I'm not even sure exactly how to parse out how I do feel. But there's, but there's, it's just, I don't know, I don't know, you know, it's all the work in progress. I'm just imagining what a conversation with an intimacy coordinator would be like for a scene where it's just you masturbating to be like now how, yeah, I don't know how that would be I don't know how it would be.

This is definitely staying in the episode definitely. But you have an interesting story about the season one like the very first masturbation scene do you mind sharing it? Is it that I did ask them to, I did ask. They wanted it to be more romantic right

and you asked for it to be creepier? No, romantic's not the word. Romantic not the word. I think every time I've done a masturbation scene, which is so far every season, at least one, I've always gotten the note to make it less creepy. And I'm like, guys, they

say like, close your eyes or go faster or go slower. And I'm like, what? This man is fucking murdering people. Getting off on it. Literally. And he's masturbating in the street. You're saying, I'm making it creepy. How is it that I'm the one making it creepy? Right. Right. And so I think

I think the way, I don't remember what I ended up doing. I don't remember what's in the cut, But I, from what I recall in the first, the first masturbation scene in the first season, which is, I got to say this interview is just taking so many turns. David is just shaking. So, so. So, I just remember, like, I wouldn't close my eyes and the director came up. And he was like, this is Lee Toland Krieger. I hope he listened to this and laughs.

He was like, buddy, I just, I think you got to close your eyes. And I was when you draw the line on this murdering Yeah And I was so you know Always have been And I've been publicly conflicted About the role and all this stuff And so I was I was principled

And I was almost kind of ready And I was like why And he was like I just think it's not like Yeah I don't remember exactly what he said But he was he was very graciously communicating He thought it was creepy And I was like

Well that's the fucking That's the point Right You don't want to romanticize it Or like make it seem less creepy Yeah. Are you softening? Yeah, I don't know. And I guess, and I guess, hey, yo. And I guess that's, that's just this strange line that we're always walking on our show. And I suppose many of those are, you know, like examining what, toxicity and sexual culture while also trying to be sexy. Right. Chase, it's interesting that your character, The Deep on the Boys, is also revealed to be a creep in a pretty similar fashion. Yeah. Like episode one, it's like, it's obviously very dark 180. But yeah, yeah, yeah. I was delicate.

It scene, yeah, it was pretty, uh, even in the first, like, few episodes, there's, like, the tonal shift of me, like, saving a dolphin from Oceanland and, like, he gets ejected through the front windshield and, you know, but, so I'm like, you know what, I'm just going to do, I'm just going to try and, and play every, you know, every scene and be as nuanced as possible, as real as possible is what we always talked about, just, just the, let the absurdity, you know, speak for itself. And, yeah, people either think he's, you know, such an asshole, such a creep, and then some people enjoy the comic relief. But throughout the past few seasons, yeah,

he's kind of gone on this journey and people are starting to kind of see him in a different light. It's really weird, yeah, and interesting. I mean, I don't think he can ever be redeemed on this show, you know, and no matter how many seasons. That's my line, too, I always say that.

Do you? Well, it's kind of like if you start up with somebody who's good, the only place they can go is down. Right. And if you started with somebody bad, the only place they can go is up. That's just the nature of story. storytelling. I do like that the writers of our show like to play in the gray area, you know,

like, like as is human nature. There's nothing as really black and white villain and good guy. And it does ask that question, can you forgive the unforgivable? Is the unforgivable, you know, able to be redeemed? I mean, it's just, I do like that that question is there, you know. Chase, I want to ask, I read that you grew up Southern Baptist and I, I'm so curious about that. Like what influence did that have on you, sort of where are you now with spirituality? No, yeah. So the school we went to is a Christian school. I actually don't know if it was like any specific denomination,

but Southern Baptist is obviously the biggest one. I mean, in retrospect, that was all we knew. I mean, it was, you know, when you take Bible class in every grade and curriculum, you know, you sort of get, it's a bubble, you know what I mean? it's a definite definitely a bubble and um you know i i connected with it in a real way then and uh and take a lot take a lot from it still you know to this day and i think um there's so many good things and bad things and how religion can be weaponized you know what i mean and i think it loses people and the and the people to subscribe to it can lose what it's really meant to be about right which is either you know

personal relationship with Christ or what have you that all these other things come into play and as we're even seeing what's going on in the world now, I mean, it kind of can take a... What's going on? I don't know what you mean. First of all, I think

religion is a safe topic for everybody. Yeah, exactly. He's like Penn invited me onto his podcast and he's asked me about me too. Religion. Yeah. We're just talking. Between masturbation and spirituality.

All the light topics. No, I like it. We're trying to set the bar high for our editor. You know what I mean? I go back to this one thing sometimes with you, Penn. But we've had, even as the show went along, I feel like we became better friends. He's just always a very, again,

I'll say insightful, you know, intelligent, thoughtful person. Are you single? but I do remember sitting in a diner and sometimes I would I started to like connect and vent to pen and I know he's been through a lot you know with different things growing up and so we sort of we were in a diner one time and and we were I was just talking and sort of word vomiting inventing and needing some sort of just support and I don't know what I was exactly the answer I was looking for but but I remember you I'll never forget it's something I go back to but you were just like you know what man like and we're young

he's like I've just learned that um you know as you get older at some point you have to just like push aside all of those issues you have whether it's family people in your past and and and just say and just say fuck it and take responsibility so you're able to move on but that I've never I've always gone back to the power of fuck it I mean like you know is it and it's so crazy but like You just, you were basically like, man, I know, like, we always try and do circles in our brains, trying to weed through different relationships where it's familial in the past or what, but he's like, I've just learned as you get older part of being an adult is taking responsibility. And no matter what that looks like, and that was always very powerful.

You've said many insightful things like that, but I still. But fuck it was what stayed with you. The power of fuck. It sounds like somehow I had my shit together better than that I do now. Is that true? you've always been this old beyond your years you always say old man say it chase you've always been this old man so i love him man yeah oh that's really sweet yeah that was great though i think amongst the men on the show i think you dealt with a unique pressure uh you know i really do

and i feel like you dealt with it so graciously for instance the way it all kind of came down on blake and laden was more than the rest of us and then out of the men you you were the third yeah You know, that's all. I just think, like, it's so good to see you doing well now. And, like, I was even watching some bloopers of you on the boys and to hear you. One thing that we always said on set, this is not, Chase knows this. We were always, like, the second this guy gets into a comedy, it's just going to change everything. Because, like, Chase's sense of humor is still, I think, a little bit of an untapped mind.

He has, like, this Jim Carrey-ish, like, vibe that is. that is just until you know him i don't know you know i i don't know that you can know it but thank you yeah i just it's so nice to see you doing well and happy i don't want to make too many presumptions we all got challenges but you know i i just it's it's it's nice to see you growing up and yeah just owning it taking responsibility and fucking it Okay. So the last question that we ask everybody, Chase, is just if you could go back to 12-year-old Chase and just have one minute with him and tell him something, what would you want to say? Oh, that's good. Don't take yourself so seriously for one. It's all going to be okay. And something along the line. of don't sweat, don't sweat all the small stuff.

You know what I mean? And life is short. So, yeah. Chase, if Sophie and I wanted to start a podcast about people's college experiences is like a rival to this one, would you host it with us? Absolutely. Are you going to rival our own show? I'll have my people reach out to your people.

We're kind of done with Penn now. Hour to a week, let me know. That's great. Yeah. It was so nice to meet you. So nice to meet you, Chase. Thank you so much. Nice to meet.

you guys too. That was great. I love that conversation. Up next, Penn reads today's listener-submitted middle school story. Stick around. Fall is in full swing, and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm, and save big, without compromising on quality. has all the elevated essentials for fall. Think 100% mongoling cashmere from $50, that's right, $50, washable silk tops and skirts, and perfectly tailored denim, all at prices that feel too good to be true. I am currently eyeing their silk miniskirt.

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Keep mealtime exciting with nom-num available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrush spelled try-n-o-m.com. slash podcrushed. I feel like I really want to see Chase again. And I just, you know, I felt, I think what I realized is like I've, the same way I felt with Leighton, I think is like I wanted to be really respectful and protect him. Because, you know, there's just one thing that you go through on Gossip Girl is just, you know, you get a lot of, just so many things in the press blown out.

And it's like, you know, want to have. like just a warm conversation that goes somewhere deep and interesting and surprising, but not that it has any kind of like clap back to it, you know, and that's just so hard. Chase touched on that too. He touched on feeling a little bit of paranoia after gossip girl and after sort of having your life taken from you in a way and have people make assumptions about you and have access to you. I really loved watching you and Chase interact and like the mutual respect and like admiration for one another and that you took a moment to express it. I felt really touched by that. And I'm not kidding, like, when we would play sports, I would have these pangs being like, you know, he's very athletic and I feel like a child. And actually, I'm athletic, but not with football. You put me in the...

So are you more of like gymnastics, bigger skating? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Synchronized swimming. Uh-huh, uh-huh. I'm not going to name the ones I do because you're just going to make fun of me. Okay? I'm not going to do it. On that topic, our listeners submitted story for today takes place at a football game. It's called Friday Night Bleachers. Enjoy.

When I was in seventh grade, I was small and awkward. Rex, a very athletic eighth grader, who by the way was a giant, like a six-eight giant, had a crush on me. I don't know why, but he was smitten. He'd follow me around the halls of our rural Wabash, Indiana middle school. His towering figure was a beacon, alerting everyone in the school that he had a crush on me. I mean, seriously, other kids would gasp when they saw him towering over me everywhere I went, just following me like a giant rook. It's the one after the bishop. Anyway, me? How was I feeling?

I was intimidated by this older, giant human boy, and I did not welcome this lurking presence by my locker or outside English class or math class or every class, but I was also way too shy to shut it down. So after a week of this nonsense, Friday night football rolled around. I was sitting in the bleachers with my two only, friends talking, not paying any attention to the game, when a young messenger

hailed me, caught my attention, and alerted me to the fact that my presence was being requested behind the bleachers. My friends and I, we cautiously followed messenger man down. Standing there, ever-looming, ever-present was Rex, and several of his

less huge bros. I gotta take a second to point out that these kids were the most athletic guys at school and therefore also the most popular. So just back to Friday. at nightlights. I greeted the boys shyly, and after an awkward few moments of small talk, Rex asked me to be his girlfriend. Oh, no, I panicked. Oh, I think my dad's here to pick me up. I got to go. And as I turned to peel away, Rex flanked by his smaller boys, cried out, Wait, how about a hug? And without missing a beat, I replied, how about a high five instead?

Before he could respond, I'd trotted over to him all little and smacked his huge hand, and he stood there dumbly. Without a second to lose, I turned around and I ran towards the part where no one was waiting for me, remember. And as I sprinted, I could hear the uproarious jeering laughter of Rex's friends. I'm sorry, Rex. You can catch Chase Crawford in The Boys on Amazon Prime

or follow him online at Chase Crawford. Podcrushed is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navakavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our executive producer is Nora Richie from Stitcher. Our lead producer and editor is David Ansari. Our secondary editor is Sharaf and Twizzle. Special thanks to Peter Clowney, VP of Content at Stitcher, Eric Eddings, Director of Lifestyle Programming at Stitcher, Jared O'Connell and Brendan Bryans for the tech support,

and Shrutti Marante, who transcribes our tape. Podcrush was created by Navakaval and is executive produced by Penn Badgley and Navakavalin and produced by Sophie Ansari. This podcast is a 9th mode production. Be sure to subscribe to Podcrush. You can find us on Stitcher, the Serious XM app, Spotify, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen. If you'd like to submit a middle school story,

go to podcrush.com and give us every detail. And while you're online, be sure to follow us on socials, or we're telling everyone that your mom still walks you to the bus stop. You don't want that. It's at Podcrush, spelled how it sounds, and our personals are at Fembadjley, at NAVA, that's NAVA with three ends,

and at Scribble by Sophie. And we're out. See you next week. You know, I know so many people who've, like, had their first kiss on camera. Wow. You know? So young that they had their first kiss on camera.

That's so crazy, yeah. Which is interesting. You know, it's... It's very interesting. My voice goes... Trauma, trauma. I'm trying now to just put it all down to the ground. This is what I'm trying.

I don't want to sound cynical or contentious. I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm fine. Stitcher. Thank you.