Podcrushed - Charlotte Ritchie

Episode Date: December 6, 2023

YOU asked, we delivered! This week the one and only Charlotte Ritchie (YOU, Ghosts) brings Penn to tears with stories of her tween gymnastics days in his favorite embarrassing story of the season. She and Penn share some Season 4 BTS and share their predictions over Joe and Kate's fates in the final season of YOU.Follow Podcrushed on socials:TikTokInstagramXSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada And I was And then so they're going in the background And then this woman was like to me, Are you okay? And every part of my being is going, no. And I'm like, yeah. And then she goes, do you want to do this again?

Like, do you want to have another go? And again, literally every cell is going, don't do it again. Like, go home. You don't have to do this. And I feel my head just. Yeah, I'd love to Welcome to Pod Crushed

We're hosts, I'm Penn I'm Nava and I'm Sophie And I think we could have been your middle school besties Drawing all over each other's faces at sleepovers Welcome Welcome to Pod Crushed, Nava, welcome Welcome, Penn I think you've got a story for me

What did you do last week? Last night? Last week Last night Last night, what did you do last night? Well, so Penn and I have a mutual friend named Joe Garrity. Shout out Joe. And Joe invited me to an album release party at 8 p.m., which I guess for most people is reasonable. I thought that was very late at night. I was like, it's already the sun has set. It's cold. I could be at home sipping tea. The sun sets at 4.30 now. It says pretty early. And I love Joe. Was like, yeah, of course I'm going to go. And then at like seven, I was like,

do I have to go to this? I really don't want to leave my home. Send him some text to like feel out how he would feel if I didn't go. it was clear that I needed to go. And to make a short story long, he conceived of, directed, edited a music video for an artist named Hank May for a song called Morgana. And I'm plugging it because on this show, I think I have come to learn that our audience thinks a lot about mental health and thinks about depression and thinks about how to get out of that and how to be joyful. And I think one of the things that our audience really likes about our show is that it's hopeful and uplifting, but it also grapples with these heavier themes.

So the song Morgana is about suicide, and it's sort of about kind of making the decision not to end your life. And it's a heavy theme, but the song is very upbeat and very uplifting. And the music video is so hopeful and inspiring. I couldn't sleep because I was so happy and proud of Joe and uplifted by the video, and I really think that Pod Crush listeners will love this. So when this episode drops, I'm going to put a little bit. link in our stories to that music video because I think you guys are going to find it so

inspiring and this is the most that I've ever shamelessly plugged someone he didn't ask me to do it but I've never done it I feel really strongly about this video I really think you guys are going to like it and so I just want to share that with you all I like that you're finally not sleeping out of happiness yeah for once you know yeah because you know most of our audience as you just named is you can't sleep from the depression yeah um so feel feel a little good go into the holidays with with Morgana I'm looking forward to that, by the way, I'm so looking forward to the holidays. I'm not usually like that, I don't think.

What are you the most looking forward to? It's just, it's just, so the change of the seasons here is, it's like the trees that now that we don't live in the city anymore, I'm like, I'm falling in love with nature, with the world of nature. I just love like, that it's like being on the same wavelength with so many people, you know that Like that Thursday of Thanksgiving, nobody's expecting anything. Like it's, you know what I mean? It's just like there's something that's nice.

It's like you really truly, regardless of what your beliefs are, your sort of political posture on the holiday, which of course can be many things, you at least know you have the day off of work probably. And you can be with your family, and it's just something about that that I really love. And the cold in the Northeast. It's special here.

Yeah. Well, today, speaking of things that are special and lovely, we have your co-star, Charlotte Ritchie, is our guest today. And having never met Charlotte, but heard only a fuse of stories from Penn about her. I did have high expectations. And she exceeded them. She's so warm. She's so friendly. She's so humble.

Unlike any other actor I've ever met. Ever. Let me underscore. Super humble. loved Charlotte and I know that you guys will love her too. Yeah, so Charlotte is not only known for playing Kate

in season four of my show you. I always have to say my show you because if I just say you, sometimes it's not always clear. And she's also, she's quite iconic for two other roles as far as I'm aware. It is her role in Colin Midwife,

which is a, some Americans may not know this show, I know it's very popular, but it's a particular darling in England. And Charlotte is a particular darling in England. She also is the lead of ghosts. One of my favorite television shows, the British version, the original version. I think that show is populated with brilliant comedians. What else would you know her from?

I think there's like fresh meat on the old platform Netflix. There's a lot else. Charlotte's been working a long time. And you might spot you might spot. her in the new Willy Wonka movie, apparently. That's true. If you blink, however, she says, you will miss it. So don't keep your eyes open.

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Why do we do what we do? What makes life meaningful? My name is Elise Luhnan and I'm the author of Oner Best Behavior and the host of the podcast, Pulling the Thread. I'm pulling the thread. I explore life's big questions with thoughts. Thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves, others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to pulling the thread from Lemonada Media wherever you get your podcasts.

Hello, Charlotte Ritchie, and welcome to Podcrushed. Thank you. Welcome. Very much for having me. Yes, of course. No, no apologies now. No, we're not doing it again. This is my co-host, Navakavlin.

Nice to meet you, Charlotte. It's so nice to meet you too. Honestly, I love this podcast. I'm really very chuffed to be here. That is genuine, but then I got embarrassed about saying it so. It sounds insincere. It's true. Thank you.

Thank you for listening. We're so excited to have you. That's great. So you know, you're like you're not only a friend. You're a fan of the podcast. A fan is a strong word. You're a listener, at least. You've listened to it some.

I would say that's being, yeah. I mean, I've listened to it lots of times and I've enjoyed it. So I think I could say I was a fan. Yeah, so yeah, that's awesome So we do want to get to Oh God, I feel so cheesy saying it We want to get into Harry Potter Not because

Not because Nava is a rabid fan Which she is And not because we're lazy researchers Which sometimes we might be But because as I recall You were in it on set Like 14 or 15 years old Is that right?

Yeah, yeah And so you know Since you're a fan of the show Wing-Wing, Nodge Notch that, you know, this is our sweet spot. So what I would love to do, can we start with Charlotte at 12? Yes. You know, just a snapshot of Charlotte at 12, becoming a performer, or not.

Whatever, whatever, how you were seeing the world, what you were like, because it's leading up to you and your eyebrows as you have reported. I do love the story of your eyebrows on the set of Harry Potter. So just take us through that. I think basically the sort of main headline is that I was like very, very not chill, very, like, highly sensitive, very kind of, yeah, quite insecure, always a little bit worried I was like in trouble, either with a friend or like I was doing something wrong. Like I always had this sense of just being a bit wrong, basically. And it was just very, and I was very anxious kid. I definitely had fun.

Like, there's so much stuff I enjoyed, and I used to have fun at school. But at definitely that period, year, eight, year nine, so 13, 12, 13 was getting into, like, complicated feelings. I was, yeah, I mean, I don't, that's not new. I know from listening to the podcast, it's not new, and I also know talking to. And when do you believe that's going to end for you? It's over. Ben, it's been a really transformative year for me since series four of you. it's almost so close

yeah it's kind of close no I think it was genuinely actually I mean jokes aside I do think that I am just about weedling out the things I was feeling at that age

I fully agree by the way about me or about you no about myself yeah yeah like that experience resonates with me very much yeah I kind of can't believe it's still taking this

like it's still there and also I think in quite kind of to be sort of vaguely serious like the parallel of like hitting puberty becoming you know entering that kind of new zone now paralleled with being my age people having kids everywhere my feelings about myself and or like it's really interesting the parallels and before that there was a kind of time of like not that not being complicated. complicated in some way. And that's because of, I guess, a host of things. But yeah, it's, it's such a huge kind of entering into a new place and the way that the world sees you and all of that stuff. Shirley, so maybe let's rewind a little bit. Like, at what point did you start performing? I've heard that you're very musical. Like, when was music introduced to the scene? I want to hear about that. Well, I, um, I've kind of had this. I think I loved acting and I did it at primary school. I remember I did a sort of sketch where I don't know what it was for is maybe like a drama

evening things like a talent show thing and I did a sketch where I played Toad of Toad Hall from Wind in the Willows and I remember making somebody laugh and being like this is a kind of approval I'm looking for enjoying that oh this is attention this attention is addictive but also I think I was like not to be too cynical I do think I was having fun like I think I really enjoyed it I had like, I don't know, I had, I think I was dressed up with all these, like, dressed up as like a washerwoman or something. I was in disguise. Anyway, it's not important, but that started.

But I kind of don't think I really had a sense of it being a kind of career thing. I think I was still, maybe I wasn't sure it was like something you could actually do. I think. Although then I read a diary recently of mine and it was like, I'm going to be an actress. So this narrative I've kind of like made, like, I don't know if it was going to be a thing. It seems like I was pretty set on it. How old was this diary entry? I think about 11.

So it must have been going to secondary school. Yeah, so it was just before, and I do mean this with sensitivity, hopefully you can feel. It was just before the insecurities that you're talking about were kicking in in the same way. I think so. I mean, yeah, that was then. And then I think, yeah, I kind of secondary school was a bit more real and it was a bit less cozy. And it was just, you're just coming up against everybody else. acting out there in securities and, uh, it's just seems totally unnavigatable. Like I honestly,

you couldn't pay me any money to go back to a classroom and that. Yeah. And just the mental acrobatics I was doing to like work out what everyone was feeling and and by the way, I think like, not even considering how I was really feeling like just fully kind of like, okay, okay, how am I going to just, like, sort of navigate this. I was never like, hmm, am I okay? Or like, is this nice or am I having fun? It was just kind of a bit. I mean, sorry, this is, again, painting a very bleak picture.

I did obviously have loads of fun at different times. And, you know, we did dance routines and we, like, I don't know, went to each other's houses. And my God, it sounds so boring. I should have prepped this. Penn was going to forests and listening to Puff Daddy. That's what we've learned about. Not at the same time. And, no, the forests really were.

leading up to this time the forests were the were the um you know bonnie vera's time away in wisconsin i don't know it's wisconsin um in the cabin in the woods before moving to l a then once i hit 12 i mean i was i was fully in la yeah you were just having to do sort of be adult kind of half adult right yeah yes yeah that's right uh let's get to harry potter only because i think it's i i think it's an incredibly that was a very like yes yes yes we've I've got to move on. I've got to do my job. Okay.

So the reason I like this story is because at its core is actually something of the British humility you were talking about or maybe, you know. But in your case, I think it's like it comes out with an interesting quasi lesson at the end. But it's just also, it's funny to me, like the way you've mentioned it before. So can you tell us about how you found, because the jump from community theater, you know playing music and doing plays in school whatever it is the leap from that to being on the set of what i think must be the biggest film franchise of our generation i mean right it's got to be like how did you end up there uh what were you thinking about it and then and then what happened i used to go to a theater school on saturdays called sylvia youngs which is like

i don't know if you've heard a bit it's kind of with hit school in london and you can do Saturday passes and they often would put out like an email like was it email I guess it was something like that like a notification in whatever format was coming um to say we are like auditioning for people or like we want headshots for people who could be supporting artists in harry potter and i was like that sounds amazing and so did you like harry potter yeah yeah yeah i used to really love it and um i so it was like quite exciting to i guess what it was like i think it was only, obviously it was still writing, maybe I was 15, 16. So they were just coming to the end, I think.

And I, yeah, I, like, signed up and then they were like, sweet. Then can you do two weeks filming in your summer holidays? And it was, I mean, it was an amazing experience. It was so cool. I was Slytherin. I had a little, naturally, I was Slytherin. Look at me. Which film?

This is in the fourth film. The Faglet of Fire, right? I only know that because I did the... In my opinion, fourth is the best. Is it really? Yeah, I love the fourth film. Don't you think the fourth is the best? Best film, best book.

It's all awash to me. I don't know. I can't tell the difference in memory, in memory. It's so different. So, yeah, the fourth one. And then I was in the defense against the dark art scene with Mad Eye Moody, which is Brendan Gleason, who is amazing. Oh.

Yeah. And it took so long to film one scene. what I remember really sticking with me. I also remember actually I had this is not really relevant but I was on my own. I didn't know anybody and I remember going on the minibus to go there and I had a I had a like a mini disc player and I had a specific mini disc with like all these various tracks on it and whenever I hear any of those songs I'm like back on the minibus. It's like really amazing how that anyway and that sort of just sets it in time. Can you give us one of those songs one or two of those songs.

Yeah, one of the first song, the first song is, oh, it's so embarrassing to say that, because I don't know how to say the word Ms. but it's a, it's a most deaf song. Oh, most deaf. Is it, is it, um, Miss Fat Booty? Yeah, that was the first one. That's so funny. I think I was going to go Ms.

And I thought I can't. No, it said it first. Ms. Fat Booty. Yeah, yeah. And then it went into another song. Another most deaf song? No, no, no, different song. Like a maybe a by a band I think called Dogstein Hot Cars, which was.

like a big British band at the time. It's pretty bleak. It's actually, the songs were a little bit more upbeat. It's a PSA. Don't leave your dog in a hot car. Yeah, yeah. Well, exactly. It's sort of an advert for, yeah, how to treat your animals. I might be able to wrap the entirety of Miss Fat Booty right now.

I'm not kidding. Let's get a little bit. Let's get a couple of hours. Hold on. So that single record cover, like a, like a, you know, an actual single release vinyl of that song. my cousin gave to me and I just didn't have a record player so I just put it on my wall and loved it

because I did love Mo Steff and I did love that album So that's amazing Same time, same place Same time, same place It wasn't She was on her way to Harry Potter You were on your way to filming Fluffer Yeah something like that

And then it was It was just kind of amazing Like there's just so many kids And everyone was dressed up in the costumes and and I remember we got I kept putting my hood up and pretending to be a dementer

and then really soon after someone came round with like a hundred safety pins and pinned all of our hoods to like our backs so that we couldn't put them up and I was like yeah I just chill out

and you like chilling up so anyway so the thing that I think I told you Penn was that when I was in the film I went to once I knew it was coming out I booked tickets for me and my friends to go to the Streatomodium, which was our local cinema.

And we sat quite close to the front. I think I still hadn't understood that that's not the best place to sit in the cinema. I think I just thought front row is the best row. And yeah, and I remember at the time that I was filming, there was an actress who, she's one of the characters that has like a big spider crawling up her arm. And she was like doing this kind of like acting that I was thinking, I don't think that's going to be big enough

to like get in the camera like I just don't think they're going to get that like I really think you're going to have to do more for people to like understand what's going on and anyway I then like actually get into the cinema I'm with all my friends and I look up and it's so clear who has like done the subtle acting and whose eyebrows me

look like they've been tied to strings and someone's literally pulling them up and down like that It is honestly, it's so too much. I'm also considering I had no lines and I was directly behind. I think it's wrong. It's like, why didn't someone say? It was a big lesson.

I was like, that's how you do subtle acting. She's really good. And it was a big learning for me. It was a big learning. I don't know. Penn, have you done much stuff that's that kind of, like those kind of. I mean, no, you know, you would know.

I would be a bigger deal, and it would be, no. It's such a shame you're not very big deal. Yeah. I'm a low-budget, big deal. Maybe I'm not a low-budget. No, no, I'm just a low-budget, a little deal. Stick around. We'll be right back. All right, so let's just real talk, as they say, for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. That dates me, doesn't it?

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Do you have any embarrassing stories from that time that you recall that you could share with us? You could choose one. You don't have to share more than one. Yes, I do. There's one that really sort of definitely sticks out, like, as something that I, it was sort of very much. basically there was definitely a sense when I was growing up like if you commit to something you have to kind of follow like follow through with it like you've got to just keep going you can't just drop it when it is a bit difficult like if you're going to do like a term at school a term of classes you have to finish them and I signed up to do gymnastics um at a local hospital I already really like where this is going. It was the class like after school

and it was just happened to be hosted like in the middle of a hospital. That's so strange. It was such a strange environment and I wasn't that good really at gymnastics at all and I was just hitting puberty so like and I had to wear leotard and this isn't like a period story

that sounds like that's where it's going but more to give you official of like someone that is really not comfortable. in their body having to wear like a velvet leotard and have their hair scrunched back. And basically there was a competition at the end of the term and my mom was like, you should do this. This will be really good for you. Like give it a go. You know, you've been working really hard on your teddy bear rolls. Like, have a go. And I was like, I really don't want to do. I really don't want to do this. She was like, do it. It will be great.

So are teddy bear rolls somersaults? No, they're the ones where your legs are kind of out like that. And then you find a I don't even know what that is. I was so good at those. Like that. That's literally like, I guess, but even a mediocre gymnast, that must be like the warm-up you do for fun to make your friends off.

I don't think so. You roll your back. Anyway, so that was, that's the same. It's just making you in a little velvet leotard in the... I know. I'm so glad I asked because it was not clear. It was not clear at all. It's really specific.

I guess maybe like big teddy bear, they sit up like that with their legs out and then it's like, well... Yeah, I get it. So that was mainly what I was focusing on. And I think I could also like walk along the beam a bit like that without falling off. Like a teddy bear? Like a teddy bear?

making the same motions. I had the grace. I had the grace of a teddy bear being controlled by, like, a three-year-old. And then there was this thing called, like, I think it's called the horse or the vault or something, which is where you, like, put your hands down, you kind of jump onto it. Yeah. And you can do a thing where you go through your legs, and so you jump all the way across. And I always found that quite hard.

And anyway, it got to the competition day, and it was like a new world. Like, this was kind of like, this is from people all around the UK, like, quite serious about it. I was definitely in the beginner's zone or whatever, the group, but it was clear that, like, I was out of my depth. And everyone was, like, slicked, like, hairspray, like, fit, glitter, like beautiful makeup, and they're, like, eight or something. And, like, amazing guitars. And I was in a group with, I would say, eight to nine year olds, I think.

And I was, like, 11, 12, as I say, like, really more comfortable in my body, surrounded by people who are, like, a foot shorter than me. And I, and I, but who look amazing, they all look amazing. Oh, who look incredible, absolutely incredible. And they're like literally like rubber bands. Yeah. So the first thing I had to do was like a floor routine. And that was kind of okay.

That did involve a lot of teddy bear rolls, forward rolls, a couple of cartwheels. But that was while lots of other stuff was going on, I felt quite confident with that. And then by the time I had to do the horse event, the vault, everything else around the arena had like shut down. Like it was just quiet. It was just that event. And I remember there's like quite a lot of people. And I remember I could sort of see my mum quite far away. And I was lined up with all these people, as I say,

like much shorter than me and much younger. And I remember like everything going a bit slow. And I like just, it was my turn. I was so nervous. And I ran like, I put my hands on the vault. And I just like fully belly flocked onto it, which you're not supposed to do, of course. And then there was like a boom around the arena.

And it was like like nothing else. silence and I basically sort of fell off the side like rolled off the side and I and did anyone that didn't that definitely did not happen to anyone else did it oh no no because as I moved to side it was like that wee we like all these tiny kids just going like barely touching it and I was and then so they're going in the background and then this woman was like to me are you okay and every part of my being is going no and I'm like yeah and then she goes if you want to do this again

like do you want to have another go and again literally every cell is going to do it again like go home you don't have to do this and I feel my head just yeah

I'd love to so she lines me back up by feeling you're having an out of body experience and I'm like that okay front of the queue again and then of course like running

running hands on belly fill up roll off literally roll off and I just sprinted out of the room it was a huge hall oh god it was just the thing is like

I just shouldn't have gone back I don't know oh anyway that this is my favorite embarrassing story anyone who's on the show somehow Wow. Did you even try? I don't know.

Like on the second one, I would imagine that you were like, there's no way. It's such a good question. You just know I'm going to make it. So you're just dreading. Yeah. It was like I gave up my first step. Yeah. I think you're right.

Actually, I've never thought did I try because I think really, I was like, I think honestly, all the strength had gone out of my body. I think I was just so unhappy to be doing it. And I have this thing in my head. I don't think it's true where I looked up and my mum was like looking like pretending to be the playoff. But that just can't be true because that doesn't think of her personality. That sounds like a Benny Hill routine inserted into your memory or something. Totally.

I can see it, but it's like really close up. So I think it's like I've fully just sketched that in. Anyway, that taught me a valuable lesson that you should just give stuff up. This is really hard. Don't persevere. Yeah. If at first you don't succeed, just go. Yeah, that was all I learned.

But those days have gone now. And, you know, I do your cartwheel. I don't feel scarred by it. I can still have a bag. Did you ever do the teddy bear? Yeah, sometimes. It might have enough space. Yeah, just really get loose.

Get loose. Yeah, yeah. Let's pivot. I do want to get to you, but Penn, you had something you wanted to. Yeah. In my prep, I did find an article, and I laughed out loud at the opening line from the independent. It's Charlotte Ritchie fans are very excited for Charlotte Ritchie.

Oh, that's so nice. I know, it is nice. And I just, I was curious, are you excited for Charlotte Ritchie? Oh, that's such a nice question. What's the, what's the horizon for Charlotte now? This is, I suppose, we could protect this on at the end.

Are you, actually? I'm definitely feeling I'm definitely feeling like I'm in a newish headspace I would say, I think, I don't know about like, I don't know how you're feeling about this, having had a bit of time away, but I have definitely benefited from having a bit of time to kind of live more my life, sort of generally. And I don't know, I think maybe, yeah, I'm not very good at looking into the future,

to be honest, like, I'm not very good at all. Well, no, I mean, who is? aside from Navva's palm reader. Nava did meet a palm reader recently. Did he do? What did you think? I was actually telling someone this story last night. I believe in palm reading.

I thought this experience was going to be total bullshit for a number of reasons, but she was so spot on. Even something specific that she told me just happened last week. I'm like, ha. No way. It happened and I was telling my sister and she's like, The Palm Reader said that was going to happen. And I was like, I know.

It's wild. So yeah, very accurate. I'm fully a believer now. She predicted it and then it happened. Yeah, yeah. She was like in the next six months, a few things. are going to happen and one of those things just happened last week. Wow. Yeah. But I went to a palm reader a long time ago and I was quite, me and my friend had our palms read and I was like, this feels

very accurate. I don't understand because this was like in the middle of somewhere I'd never been in a country I'd never been to before. There's no way like this man knew anything about any of us. Yeah. Same. I just like went up to a random booth on Venice Beach. Like that didn't like pull out her phone and Google me. I didn't even tell her my name. There was a certain things she said that were like does it make you feel like there's like all this stuff just like plant i don't doesn't oh yeah this question of like fate and destiny versus agency that is such a good question you know I hadn't actually thought about that I'm sorry don't I wonder how did you not how do you not think about that if well I think it being recorded on my palms doesn't mean it's destiny it just

means that maybe like I'm acting out my agency and someone can see it. Like, for instance, you know that the sun is going to rise tomorrow, but that doesn't mean that you cause the sun to rise. It's just like something that does happen. I don't know. That's probably not a good example, but I don't know. I think there's a, yeah, it's a terrible

example. We'll kind of, we'll kind of preserve people on this show think I'm smart and I would like to keep that illusion up, so we're going to cut that. Every now and then, every now and then Navidose is something and I'm like, wow, that was she's an idiot. That was so not on the level of that. every now and then.

How do you put out with this? This is unbelievable. And then she's a fucking idiot. So I think there is like a dance between fate and free will. Certain things are obviously faded like where you're born. You had no saying that for many people when they die. Like certain things I think are outside of our control that whatever the word is, one could call it fate.

It was pre-determined. But I think we have a lot of agency and then there's mystery in sort of like what is agency and what is fate. But, like, one of the things that she said to me was, she just looked at my hand and she was like, oh, you've never had, like, a great love of your life, which I feel like a stranger wouldn't know. And I haven't.

And she was like, but you're going to have one soon. And she, like, gave me a date and said, like, certain things had to happen for that to happen. And then a few of those things just happened. Wow. And it was like, insane. Yeah. Wow. That's amazing.

But then she saw my sister's palm and my sister was married and, like, she could see those things. So she was seeing something. Wow. That's amazing. It was quite exciting that these things are that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything she predicted was very exciting. There were like a few hard things.

She was like, these hard things have to happen. And then when they do these other things, they're going to happen to you. Bring them on. Bring on the test. The hard things have come. The hard things happened last week. So hopefully the good things are coming.

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and veggies that look like veggies because, shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lamb-peelaf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with NomNum available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trinom.com slash podcrushed, spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. So Charlotte, you are obviously a big part of season four of you. You're in the role of Kate.

And I want to know, I have a few questions about the auditioning process and sort of how you got that. So one, just sort of what was it like to audition for that role? How did you prepare? And what was your reaction when you landed it? So it was like preparing, well, I can't remember the scenes I had to do, but I remember really liking the, there was this kind of monologue, I think, not monologue, sorry, there was like a, that's how I see it. Borship, bullshit, my line.

There was like a kind of section, I think, that, where Kate was talking about her father. Just to be clear, though, they are monologues because Joe doesn't speak. I know. They are. They doesn't seem, and in fact, what they do for the auditions, I'll just say, which you may have picked up on, but you know, you haven't seen it so many times as I have, so you might not have noticed a pattern. What they do for those audition scenes, which are essentially chemistry reads, they create far more lines for Joe than end up being in the real scene. They, they, because otherwise there's no chemistry. There's not going to be, you know, usually what it is is a woman who he's already obsessed with, just talking out.

him about her trauma basically yeah yeah you know and it's like and so and and for the audience the the the the dialogue quote unquote is actually between joe's mind and her yeah that's really what it is that's that interplay that you don't notice until you're a part of constructing it and then anyway so sorry carry on yeah first day I was like well there's no way that they're gonna like there's no way that they're going to go for me on this so off we go let's have a good go and then when I did get a recall and then I can't remember how I can't remember it's kind of blurred into one

then I did a Zoom with you Penn and you were at home or maybe I don't know if you're at home but yeah I was and it felt very hard actually over Zoom because not that this isn't actually because also like it's you know we're talking it was similar

it was stilted and there wasn't really a lot to go off of yeah you know it was kind of like really boring really yeah I'm mostly quiet, you just keep talking, that kind of thing. Talking, monologuing, as I've said before. So I found it, yeah, difficult. And it was just kind of just quite strange because it was over Zoom. I mean, so you basically had the role by the time that just, I mean, I forget if we've ever spoken about it.

But like you were clearly, you were clearly, this is, I didn't know even that they were pursuing you. I didn't, you know, I don't, I'm not like prying into that process. and I trust them in the way they pursue it. He's pretty checked in. Well, no, I mean, it's just like they've, like I've said this before, they know how to make the show in a way where like I know how to play Joe. And yes, I can direct an episode well enough, but I'm not, I don't feel like I'm the one to get into the like mess with the DNA of the thing.

That's not where I think I could do that in other projects, not this one. Yeah. So Charlotte, you said you went into it. not thinking you were going to get it. Penn says you already had it. But for you when you found out that you got the part, how did you feel? I felt like, I think really, honestly,

I felt really a bit. I'm so quick to be afraid of like new things and kind of, I think I, because I had that feeling like I don't know if I, I didn't think you don't think you're going to do these things when you go for them necessarily and because it felt out of my comfort zone I think I just, I did feel quite intimidated by the prospect

but also it was exciting because like it is such a huge show and I know, I don't know I did I did know that it was going to be like a good thing and that it would also be like a good challenge and yeah and so I kind of felt like a real mix of things but it's very kind of normal of me to feel quite kind of intimidated, I would say. And I built up my, I think the fact that it's such a big show really kind of got to me maybe. Yeah, I think that definitely like overwhelmed a lot of my feeling, which is a shame because actually, in retrospect, I think that has not done me any favours.

And I think it's taught me like quite a big lesson actually that you don't have to see things as like these big, blocks of things like i guess i was like huge show like big netflix thing um and it just was seemed a bit impermeable like it was it impenetrable and kind of doesn't have to be like that but i'd sort of labelled it a bit like that you know yeah so yeah the character is tightly wound and i think fan reactions were mixed i think people liked a character who didn't just like fall for joe hook line sinker like the previous some of the previous leads and i think some people were like, missed. Why won't she fall in love with him faster?

Sort of dough-eyed lead. And so I'm just wondering, is the person playing the part, seeing mixed reactions? Like, is that something that you take personally? Like, how does, I think I would take it personally, even if it's just the way the character was written, just as like the vain, egotistical person that I am.

But I'm just wondering how that lands for you sort of seeing, seeing a lot of people like, yes, and a lot of people like, why? Yes. it's very real. It's like, it's really, I don't really, it's such a kind of specific and strange experience. I was anticipating that, like, I didn't imagine that it was going to be like, all unanimously, you know, yes. Basically, I think the thing I've learned is that you have to be, and it's like a sophisticated and good crafty thing, that craft person thing to do to find what you love about the person that's kind of hateful.

and I'm not sure that I did like I'm not sure that I really I found her so cold and I found it like almost kind of like fun in that kind of reverse enjoyment of getting to be someone who's so awful but really if I was to and I think it's so I think it chimes actually with the character like I think that she was closed off to herself very much so I think there's like a real disconnect there and I don't think if you know so it works in my head in some ways but all. also, it would be quite nice to think about how you can be more empathetic towards that character. And that would have, I think, contributed also to some sort of level of connection. Because I was inside that character being like, yeah, I know, she's a rubbish. But like, maybe that's not that helpful. You know, it's not a caricature. And I think that is, I don't know, something I'm thinking about. But I do think your character was written in a way that the audience wasn't supposed to just,

if they were used to a lead that was like your rom-com female, counterpart who's going to get murdered or is going to turn insane but still for like the first nine episodes of season two Victoria is very much in that like rom-com sort of your character isn't that and so I think that the audience wasn't supposed to like her so my question was at least my yeah just like my question wasn't like did you play her in a way that made the audience not like her no it's like you played her exactly the way you're supposed to and I think the audience reacted exactly the way they were supposed to it's actually amazing that there were people who did like her because I think you're not supposed to at least initially

Well, she's supposed to see Joe. Is that hard? Yeah. That was sort of my question. Just to say. Right. I think you played her beautifully. Yeah.

Oh, thanks. Yeah, she's supposed to see Joe. She's supposed to be the one that sees through him. But then, of course, she says like, you're creep. What are you doing here? I know, but then she obviously pulls in love with him. So then even the thing she had. Because he's amazing.

Because he's so incredible. He's amazing. I think that thing, you know, she maybe had going for like a x-ray vision. Like, you're an asshole. I think you're, she lost that because she then. fell in love with it. So it's like, well, what even are you even doing? I mean, what are you even anyway? So, yeah, it's, but in terms of the way that it feels like, you know, finally enough, going back to that kind of 12 year old person who really wants to everyone to think that they're great

and really like them, like, hello, she's like, you know, that doesn't go anywhere really, but yeah, that's, it's been very, someone's very useful to just go, gosh, there's like, there's those, loads of people who don't think, who don't like Kate and maybe therefore don't, you know, maybe think I'm the same. And then you have to go, well, oh, there's nothing I can do about it. It's literally nothing I can do. Well, if our hugely successful podcast is any indicator, you were, I think our top, in our top three most requested guests, like people wanted to hear from you. So whether or not they love Kate, I think they like you. That's my impression. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. Unless it's like,

let's see whether she's a real bitch. Is she really a bitch or? Yeah. And the answer is, hell, yes, 100%. So, I don't know. I mean, it's quite a big thing, but that's also the risk you take, isn't it, by being out there? And also, there's lots of interesting things around women being likable and how important or not that is. Very. It's very, very important. The most important thing, Charlotte.

Being beautiful and likable are the two most important things. Right. Oh, sorry, there's some screeching going on. Is that your inner? Is that just in your head? Yeah, that's what I need a pan in. No, it's true, but then, you know, to give, I also think it's really reasonable to want to feel a connection with

or like the person that's portraying a romantic relationship in front of it. Like I get, of course, you know, you, it's a joy to watch people that you like on screen and you identify with because that's. You're immensely likable in person and I've always known. I mean, from the, from basically the first. moment that I met you in person, it was not clear on Zoom. Was it not? No, I'm kidding. I didn't wonder that. I'm kidding. No, I know. Unfortunately, Charlotte, it doesn't translate on Zoom. So you've

caught no hope. On any screen. Whatever we say, this is going. No, no, no, it was very clear to me. Like, oh, I see what they've done. They've cast one of the most likable people they could in, in the role of someone who's immensely unlikable. To give you credit, and like despite the kind of coldness of that on-screen relationship it was so fun hanging out with you that was like a real I feel like we're always laughing it was a joy it was almost like the more serious it got on the screen the more fun it was outside of it and I'm so grateful for that yeah I'm glad you feel that way now because there was a period where I felt bad because it's like I've been doing this for so long now like it's just kind of and there were times where I feel like you did ask me you're like you have to stop oh yeah there was some time well there were moments where like Like, I don't know, I'd have to be like on the brink of tears and he'd be doing this like squeaky Victorian voice just up until the brink. Oh, well, you're doing a really nice job, you know?

Yeah, really get in there. Just remember when you were young. Remember when you were young. Oh, my God. It would always feel like it was somehow there was a person like hiding underneath the chair. There was like a quality to that voice that was like, huh? It felt like it was coming from somewhere else. But no, that was that was a real blessing.

Okay, one question we ask. is, what was your first impression of each other? So we want to hear from both of you. And from both of you, what was your favorite film, your favorite scene to film together? It doesn't have to be the same one. Oh, yeah. So Penn, we'll start with you.

What was your first impression of Charlotte in person? Yeah, in person, I don't remember the moment, but I do, but I do, I mean, I've said, like, I immediately knew why Greg had felt so confident about her being the one. because incredibly warm and sort of bubbly is not all the right word because bubbly implies to me something almost that's like a kind of a superficial negative connotation and it's also like I think Charlotte you have an interesting mix of

you are very British but at the same time there's this it's not troll it's not like the things that Brits will very I don't know kind of say about themselves there's this implication that there's like a a kind of a kind of a almost like a sadness or a coldness or something you know what i mean there's like this it's like the weather there's this some my impression of the way britts talk about themselves no no no not no not a disconnect i what brits say about themselves i think matches the weather it's like there's a certain restrained reserved kind of um it's what makes the humor sometimes so good because it's so yeah what is that i don't know

it's um i don't know i don't know so you have that you definitely have have that but you but you manage i think a a really clear and transparent warmth and kindness and very funny so you know my first impression was like again like i was like oh i i this is interesting because she's so not like the character and i think in particular your comedy really to me, I was like, not just impressed, but I was like, this is interesting. This is like they've cast a very, very funny person in a role that is not funny. She's not funny. I'm not agreeing that I think I'm funny, but one thing I do know is that it's not funny.

And I was just like, this is really interesting. I'm really looking forward to see how this works, you know. Yes, and I think you can all say it was a categorical success across. all sides. No, is it? I'm not saying it wasn't, but of course, yeah, there was, yeah. Okay.

Well, that's, yeah, that's really nice. Yeah, and I was thrilled, and I was thrilled about it too because I was like, oh, this is going to be, this is going to be very fun. Because we did just laugh, like, again. And I'm sorry for when it went a little bit overboard, but I just...

No. It's always better that way around. I, I, um, yes, I had probably like, I found when I first met you I think I had a preconceived idea actually

which is I mm-mm he's saying no but he's saying it's not good not good like I think I knew that you thought very much about things

like that was something I thought was I knew I'd be like this is great I'm actually going to like have some great conversations to see I think you feel similarly

often about the industry or whatever and live things and I was like that's very interesting but when I met And I met you and I found you actually, you were a little guarded maybe. And I thought, this is interesting.

This is interesting. And this thing I'm talking about, this like intimidation of the show, I think got to me a bit. And I think I was like, I'm not going to, I won't be too forthcoming. Like, normally I'd be like, you know, let's go out and have a drink or something like, whatever. And I think it wasn't until we did go maybe and have a drink. And we really sort of, because we didn't talk to each other much on set right at the beginning. I don't know if you remember, like not talk to each other, but our characters actually didn't speak that much. much the very beginning.

That's right. Yeah. The first few episodes, I'm like fully in my head. Like there's no, I speak to almost nobody feels like. Yeah. So much, so much in her monologue. And I'm telling you, when we do speak, I was literally only telling you, my character was telling you to like fuck off the whole time.

Yeah, right. Fuck off. Yeah. And then, yeah. And then it was really clear to me once we actually had a proper scene together, I was like, oh, this, thank God, this is great. Like, the fact that you. found that we could have some levity between basically everything you said I was like yeah

this is a huge relief yeah reciprocal no but I did I was like yeah I mean it was it was interesting because I think I thought I think it's quite good again another lesson for like how you can how there can be these like screens in front of things because of a structure that's in place like you know you're the lead in the show you've done four series like you're probably going to be you've met so many new people all these things that come up when you're like a new person on a thing and it's just not true

and you just have to like chat you know start talking and actually have like a proper conversation and then yeah and then you were like especially towards the end like not just like fun to hang out with but oh my God I remember like one of our last days I just couldn't get like the speech out

I can't remember if you remember but you just like went through it with me like 50 times and I was like how do you have the energy to do this And this is so kind. So, yeah. I don't remember. You mean we were rehearsing?

And it wasn't, yeah, it was like a scene in the hospital and I just couldn't get the lines right. And you just went through it with, I don't know, you probably don't remember. I think you were in a hospital. Oh, no, I do remember that now. Yeah. Yeah. And it was like right at the end of the shoot. And I thought, how are you still sort of hanging on with energy?

And I was like, that's really always being able to sort of meet people at that level. It's like a really huge thing. Because that's what you need really, isn't it, to be just sort of feel a bit supported. and at least a bit in cahoots, not in cahoots, but whatever, like, connected is helpful. Anyway, so yeah, I was very grateful for that. But it was quite nice to have that shift from initial trepidation, definitely based on my own worries and stuff. We have a final question we ask everyone, but I have one more you question. Assuming that you don't know how the series is going to end, what would you like to see happen to Kate and Joe?

I don't know what's going to happen, genuinely. Um, do you know, Penn? No, no, I don't. You haven't pressure? Okay. I'm very curious. I, I, I, I feel like, I would like, I mean, maybe this is more specific to Kate, but with the absence of her kind of terrifying father, I would like to see her be a bit more

expansive and a bit more like, maybe a bit more fun. And for them to maybe have some fun. in that regard, like being a bit more in a, reveling a bit more in a zone of kind of kind of a bit of power with a bit of, yeah, that, a bit more, a bit more kind of opened out, I think. Do you think she's going to help him kill people? I think she's going to, like, fully go to the dark side with him. Possibly, yeah.

That feels like it would make sense, but. It feels like it would make sense, yeah. Yeah, it feels, yeah. I wonder if he'll, I wonder if the way that it will happen is he'll help her kill people. Isn't that kind of, isn't that kind of the vibe? He's kind of set up as there. like she's like this kind of powerful. It's like she knows who he is but not but it's like it's coming in it's he's sort of going

into the back door of being honest he is technically being honest with her but it's like kind of a little bit backwards you know it's like yeah you should do that voice but it's sort of not like you think it is and then everyone's watching it being like why do your voice is trying oh with the morning good you do the really nice sleep can you want to ask the final yeah go on it if you could go back to your 12 year old self to Charlotte what what would you say or do I'd probably say start getting in touch with what you like and what you think is good and not what you think other people think is good and therefore like adapting to that

Just try and start to really think about that and know that that's like a reasonable priority. I don't mean like be selfish. I just mean start to look at the world from the inside out as opposed to outside in. And then something is quite sweet. My friend said to me when I was talking to her about this and just sort of be like, you're okay. Like you're fine. You're not this panic and this need to like fix and this like you're fine.

So just go easy. on yourself. Yeah, definitely. That would be nice. Charlotte, thank you so much for coming. Thank you. I don't know that we've laughed collectively as hard as we did during the teddy bear.

I think that is the most we've ever laughed with your embarrassing story. Well, listen, the 12-year-old me, it was worth it. It was worth the experience. It made you feel good. I do like a tiny weenie moment in the new Wonka film. Wait, hold on, since when have you ended up in that movie? So I think it was a few months after we filmed.

Or maybe it was like just before we started filming. I can't remember what. I can't remember that. What's wrong with my? Yeah, it was straight after. It was the November. And then I think I got COVID. during it, so I missed a lot of filming.

From Timothy Chalame? Can we tell people you got COVID from Timothy Chalame? You can say. Yeah. Stitcher.