Podcrushed - Elisabeth Moss

Episode Date: May 1, 2024

The inimitable, outrageously talented Elisabeth Moss (Mad Men, Handmaid's Tale) is here and we're NOT OK! Elisabeth shares about her years training as a ballet dancer, the tough lessons she learned from early adolescent manipulation, why she wished she'd been cast on Gossip Girl, and why she refuses to ever go method. We get into all things Handmaid's Tale and her exciting new project, The Veil. Tune in to find out how Penn made Elisabeth blush...by comparing her to a baby?    Follow Podcrushed on socials: TikTok Instagram XSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada The following week, that best friend who had encouraged me, yep, to break up with him, started dating him. No. So today, Penn made an embarrassing pun in front of a really remarkable guest. Which one? You guys will, you'll spot it. Was it in this one?

Something about a little dance movie? I don't want to give it away. They'll spot it. They'll hear it. But I was wondering, what's your, do you have like a go-to pun that you try to work into conversations? A go-to pun? A go-to pun? That sounds terrible, frankly. Yeah, sounds like something you would do.

A go-to, I don't have go-to. I just, my mind goes there, but I don't have a go-to. You don't have a go-to pun. Or do you have a pun that you remember being like, oh, this is remarkably bad. Most of them are, aren't they? Like, like, puns are. Oh, no.

The other day I said, I was trying to say goners or something, boomers. No, something about Gen. You didn't know, you did say. You were like, I did say boomers. Yeah, you did. But then there was another,

I'm doing about a generational puns. I love the way you're enunciating. I did say, boomers. Yeah. It's really leaning into. But she was booing them. I fear, I fear, no one. She was booing the boomers.

That was a good pun. I stand by that pun for you. Thank you. No, what did you say? It was a Gen Z one that you didn't get. I had to like explain, which always makes it worse. Yeah. Yeah, it does.

I used to try to work in punny whenever I could. Oh, God. I know, the worst, the worst. Why are you in kindergarten? Wait, what? Oh, so the puny. The pun of all puns. Just like that's so punny.

It's like wherever I could. Now I mostly try to, I try to do. That's so bad. It's not even a pun. It's not a pun. Um, pen. started a pun on our group chat with the word

pitches. There was like a week that we were pitching a show together and he anytime he could replace bitches with pitches but he was very funny when he did it. And then Chelsea and I picked up the mantel and he dropped it. He was like, you guys are doing it? I'm out. Yeah. You guys are ruining it? This requires tact.

It requires skill. You ruined it. Yeah. What about you, Penn? I also tried to do Lots of puns with your names. Like, I'm constantly texting you. You do. And so here's the funny thing.

Like, here's the puny thing. Not one of them has ever been funny. I've never, I cannot think of a time. And I have a name that you can make all kinds of jokes with, all kinds of them. I cannot think of a time that I was ever remotely amused by one. Like, damn that pitch.

I turn around with claws and gritted teeth. My favorite thing to call him is Penny from the block. That's a good one. That's kind of cute. We have a guest today who is far more radiant than our laughter, which is hard to match, hard to surmount ours. But she does. Elizabeth Moss.

I'll start from where she is now. She's in a new show called FX's The Veil. Rather, it's called The Veil. It's on FX. I don't want to confuse. If that was unclear, it's about a veil in the executive offices. of Disney Hulu FX. But you know her from The Handmaid's Tale,

we got into it with her about, you know, when she started on Girl Interrupted and the West Wing. I mean, this is a person who has had an incredible career. Most of the people on our show have. Let's say all, except for the three of us. That was generous. But I mean, really, with her, with her, I just was kind of like stunned.

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Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed, spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. A 15-year-old girl who chewed through a rope to escape a serial killer. I used my front teeth to saw on the rope in my mouth. He's been convicted of murdering two young women, but suspected of many more. Maybe there's another one in that area.

And now, new leads that could solve these cold cases. They could be a victim that we have no idea he killed. Stolen voices of Dull Valley breaks the silence on August 19th. Follow us now so you don't miss an episode. Okay, I am recording to your thing. Amazing. Okay. Yeah, we're very excited.

to have you because it sounds like you're coming of age you were already doing what you do now you seem to come from such an artistic family so we're just really curious you know what at

and of course you can start earlier we're going to go later but like round about 12 what were you thinking and feeling how you seen the world yeah what were you thinking what were you thinking I didn't really go

to a normal school. I did homeschooling, set schooling. You know, I started acting when I was like six. And Penn, I think you were like... I was a bit older. Pretty much around there, right? A little older?

I was already at 12. I had moved to L.A. And at 13, I was no longer in normal school at all. Exactly. And even the years before that. So I'm kind of like, when I was reading your Wikipedia, which I hope is like pretty accurate, I really was like, oh, this is,

I really relate to this. Like, yeah, yeah. Even when I went to school, it wasn't really like a conventional school. Yes. Very, you know, artistic. So by the time I was 12, I was, I started dancing ballet when I was five. So from 12 to 15 is a really formative part of dancers training. And so I kind of took a break from acting from 12 to 14-ish.

And so my quote unquote middle school experience, I equate that with what ballet school I was going to and my ballet trajectory at that time, which I was studying ballet in L.A. and then spending summers in New York, studying at like the Joffrey Ballet School and School of American Ballet. And yeah, so my middle school experience was very different in the sense of it was just as dramatic and fraught and all of those things that you have. But the stakes were actually real in the sense that we were really training for our careers and our future livelihoods. And now looking back, you know, I'm 41 and looking back and I'm like, Jesus Christ. times 13 years old and like thinking about where I was going to work the rest of my life and thinking about getting a job in a professional ballet company and so yeah so it was very unusual there wasn't really a heavy academic part of my life it was about going to ballet class you know six days a week and the competitiveness of that it's only now that I look back on it

and kind of go, wow, I was really young to be dealing with the kind of stuff that I was dealing with. At the time, it was totally normal to me. And I didn't think anything of it and didn't think it was too big or too much. I credit the ballet training in that period of time and especially like 12, 13, 14 with really setting me up to become the, not necessarily the, partially the artist, I guess, but we're the worker that I am today. Like this understanding of discipline and understanding of practice and understanding of having to work hard at something every day

that it's not just going to be handed to you. That if you wanted to be better at something, you actually had to get better at it. It wasn't just going to be a fluke. Like if you wanted to turn better or jump better or be more flexible or have better turnout, like you had to actually physically do it. There was no shortcut.

So I credit that time with really making me the kind of hard worker than I am today. And to answer your question, more specifically, Penn, yeah, I loved it. I mean, at the time it was hard and it was competitive and there was, you know, the fair share of heartbreak, not getting into like this ballet school or not getting hard or whatever, but it felt, you know, like the steaks were so high and it was all very dramatic. But I liked it. I wouldn't have it any other way. I'm so curious, since this was really all encompassing year,

it sounds like you were, you were doing this every day, six days a week. What was the social aspect like? Like, what were your friendships like? I, that was my high school. Like, that was my middle school in high school. You know, I had a ton of friends. There was drama. There was a little bit of dating.

There was, you know, people being friends and not being friends. There was like the cool girls. But the cool girls were cool because they were like the best answers. You know, the cool girls had like the best, you know, parts, the best in the nutcracker. You know, they were getting into the best ballet school. So it was different in that sense. Yeah. But it was my middle school.

Yeah. And it was like I listened to your guys' stories or other guests stories on your podcast. And I can equate those stories with things that happen at my ballet school. Yeah. Elizabeth, this is maybe a strange question to ask. I'm not even sure how to formulate it, but I was thinking about like, when is the period of time in my life

where I was like the most jealous? And it was definitely like middle school, high school. And I imagine that if I had to add a component of like, what does my body look like? How does my body move? This other person might get a position that I won't get. Like mine was just like hormonal teenage jealousy. I'm just wondering, what was your relationship to jealousy?

How was your friendship with other girls? Like, yeah, I'm just curious because it feels like it would all be way more heightened. Exactly. That's what I'm saying. It was like all of the stuff that goes on in a middle school atmosphere that feels dramatic and feels like life or death and the stakes are so high. Actually, the stakes actually were that high.

Yeah, that's crazy. We were actually competing for positions that would then lead to a career. Yeah. That would hopefully last, you know, for 20 years at 13, 14. years old. So yes, the competitiveness and the jealousy was exactly the same, but was very real. Yeah. I would think no matter who you are, it's in Fist and Starts humiliating because you can't jump higher than you can jump. You can't be the dancer. Dance actually to me, as a person who like is a, is a like a complete untrained, like novice sort of like I do love to dance, but the idea of going

you're that world. I mean, it's, and I do know some real dancers. And that, I mean, you know, as you said, there's no fluke. You're not just going to, like, show up and rock it. And it's like you are living through the Rocky montage, like, which is just a montage of movie. I feel like you're living through it. You're always just physically demanding of yourself more, more, more. You're right about the physicality of it. Like, there's only so much you can do at a certain point. You know, a lot of it comes down to literally what your physical bones and muscles are made of, whether or not you're, you have good feet, meaning like a good point, a good arch, whether or not you can jump high. Like that has such a connotation.

Like, do you have good feet? Yeah. Yeah. I'm not up to you. Like, you can kind of improve your feet and you can kind of work on it. But there's also just a bone structure thing element to it, you know, and some people are born with certain things that other people aren't born with. There's nothing you can do about it. I mean, I expose it similar to like gymnasts and ice skaters, that kind of, you know, any kind of Olympic athlete as well as dealing with that at a young age. But at the same time, I don't want to, I don't want to plan it too negative over light because it was incredibly positive in how it formed who I became and who I, what I value and what I think about how hard it takes, how hard it is to do something.

So I did, you know, I did, I do really appreciate that I had that. This is such a silly question. I can already see the comments. Like, you had Elizabeth Moss and you asked her this question. Oh, God. Did you ever see the movie center stage? And what did you think? Yes.

I loved that movie. That's not, first of all, it's not a silly question. Second of all, yes. I was obsessed with that movie. Yeah, it's a fantastic movie. So a lot of the dancers in that movie came from the School of American Ballet and New York City Valley. So that was the school that I was going to

And then I eventually wanted to get into New York City Ballet So the template for center stage is the school That I was going to I remember there's a whole thing about her feet Like she doesn't have great feet But look at her pizzazz That's amazing She's got maxi

We love to ask people Their first experiences around crushes Those kinds of big love feelings So in my ballet school, my first, there were three straight men, which was extraordinarily high number for a ballet school. I had my first, my first boyfriend was at that school. And I was obsessed with him. I was a huge crush on him. Then we had our first kiss and, and all was my first kiss.

I don't know those things. But, and then we dated for like, I want to say. it felt like forever, but like it was 12. It was probably like two weeks or something, but you know, it felt like it was like pretty epic love story. Yeah. And then I got kind of, I kind of didn't like him as much anymore. And I sort of fell out of it and I didn't really review with him anymore.

My crush kind of dissipated because now I realized that it was at the time a crush and not the great love affair of my life. And then those crushes sometimes go away. Yeah. Um, and so I kind of didn't know if I wanted to be with anymore. I kind of wanted to break up and then I knew my best friends at the time who showered me. Um, just because she's a fan of this podcast. Um, she was like encouraging me to break up with him.

And she thought, like, yes, like, you're not into time anymore. You should break up with him. So I broke up with him, like in this most terrible way, like right before we went on stage, we were doing like the neckrather or something. Oh, and I broke up the same. Like, I know, it was the worst break up with him. Like, I know, it was the worst break up. if I ever, right before, like, right before you went, I've seen.

But I felt good. I was like, that I felt good about place. And now I was like, okay, this is the right thing that you. Now I can perform. Yeah, exactly. Now I can dance and I'm free that dead weight. And then the following week, that best friend, that encouraged me, yeah, to break up with him, started dating him. No.

And I was definitely. devastated and so mad and it was my first experience with like complexity I guess in that world it was a sort of breaking of innocence of like oh people can do that kind of thing and maybe not everyone is saying exactly what they mean to your face and it was it was a real kind of like okay all right I see how this can go did you continue a friendship with her or that kind of that kind of that broke it off I think we did continue to become friends but in that kind of like 13 year old girl 12 13 year old girl way

where you're you know watching your back yeah yeah yeah yeah we had to see each other every day in ballet class though you know it wasn't like you could like get away from the person and then me and the guy ended up being friends years later

like that that was all fine but yeah that was my formative like first crash first boyfriend and first heartbreak, first breakup experience. I know. Elizabeth, the other classic question we ask everyone is to share an embarrassing story, if you have one, if one comes to mind. I mean, I remember when I was like little in ballet class,

I had to go to the bathroom really bad. I was like maybe five or six. And I had to go to the bath and really bad. And I didn't go for some reason, I think because I thought maybe I shouldn't go or I didn't have time or maybe the teacher said no. I can't remember And I thought it would affect your career I thought it would affect my

I thought I wouldn't get that next part I was already thinking about I'm not going to get in New York City by the way I'll leave this Can't miss this, can't miss this Don't go to the bathroom Five years old Well that's right

I definitely had a little accident I might have been like really young I might have been like less than five I hope I was I hope I was really young But I remember it I mean, it might sound not that big of a big deal, but in obviously it's stuck with me. Yeah.

You know? That stays. Didn't happen again, though, guys. Not ecstatic. Good. Great. We're glad. Perfect bladder control.

Good news. I figured it out. Elizabeth. As everyone always says, perfect bladder. Yep. Moes went to go to the best. Exactly. And look at the career.

So actually, before we get into, because, you know, it seems like once you were about, I don't know, 15, 16, you started to take acting, that took center stage, of all things. So, like, so, yeah, yeah, I've had worse puns, I guess. But I am definitely curious, you know, your family is so musical generally. To me, there's a similarity in that you are, you are the instrument. You're not the writer. You're not the composer. You know, you're not even the musician.

You know, you're not the director as an actor. You are the instrument. You're responding to the material. and then you know you can imbue that with how you feel and what you're thinking and stuff but at the end of the day you're it's kind of this highly active passive role you know and I'm curious did you feel like a distinct musical member of your family being that everybody seemed to respond to music in a certain way and you were almost like acting on top of it that's actually really astute of you to observe because that's exactly right the correlation between acting and dance and I don't think anyone else was like ever said that to me. So I'm very impressed. Okay.

I just want you to take note. Yeah, it's interesting in my family because I was the outlier in a way because they didn't play any instruments. In my family, you didn't play around with instruments or music. You actually learned how to play and you became a professional and you practiced every day.

And you didn't, yeah, you didn't mess around. So if I didn't have time to practice every day, I wasn't going to take up that instrument because it was supposed to be taken seriously. But because of the musical background and because everybody was in the arts, I think my family would have found it strange if I had wanted to go to college, be an attorney.

I would have been, like, judged for that. So interesting. Yeah. The fact that it was not uncommon to pursue a kind of crazy dream that is possibly not very lucrative. You may not work out at all, and you certainly may not be able to make any money at it.

It was just not crazy to do that. What was your path from ballet to acting? It sounds like you started actually with acting and then ballet came in the middle, but how did you get back to acting? When I was 15, I had this really actually adult conversation with my mom, where I realized,

I kind of looked at my life and thought, what is my life going to be and ballet is very I mean have lesson like it's incredible what they do and they sacrifice and what they put on the line

but it's a it's not an easy life and it ends like early oh my God it would have ended like five years ago for me if I had been successful if I had not gotten injured like if it had worked out really well

huge shifts I somehow was able to look at that and go I don't know how I was able to have that kind of like looking into the future, but I was able to look at it and go, I don't think that that's a good idea for me. And I couldn't imagine not acting. I could imagine not dancing.

But I couldn't imagine not acting. Did you love movies? Yeah. I loved old movies. I didn't watch like cool movies. I didn't watch like taxi driver. Like I loved like Ginger Rogers to try to stare movies and musicals and Betty Davis and Barbara understand why I can like.

Yeah. We know those are cool, but yeah. And then when I was 15, I did this movie with, um, Martin Landau, a tiny little independent film called Joy Writers. Uh, and he was just so lovely to work with and so, wow, inspiring and wonderful. And it was the first time I had a part where I wasn't playing like someone's daughter or, you know, just, um, that kind of role. I had stuff to do.

And, uh, I was like, this is it. I can't not, I can't not do this. Like, this is the way I have to go. And then I just kind of stopped dancing, which was really hard. Yeah. Really, really hard. And then it was only a couple years later that I got on the West Wing. Yeah, I was going to say, you want, you, I mean, you're, of course, immensely talented.

And then there's that strange thing that we all know, which plays a role in it, which is like, luck, whatever you want to call that. Being in the right place, whatever. Yeah. Because you did, I mean, talking about that Martin Lando film, the Martin Lando film, and then you want, and then you did things like pretty soon after like Girl Interrupted. Yeah, yes, that's right, I forgot about that. And yeah, and I mean, you know, it was definitely a supporting character, but like, you know, you play a girl who's had this, uh, uh, uh, the burns. Yeah, like this, this extreme. event this this this this accident and that film was so iconic it was you know nothing like that's a

girl power seems like a totally reductive thing to say but in the 90s it wasn't really like you know i mean it was it was powerful and from these young powerful women who would become icons themselves you of course among them so and then the west wing like it just seems to me that you were able very early on to be a part of projects where there was such substance and the people making them seem to say like seem to be thinking we were saying something you know we're making a statement we're making

this is an exploration into like you know the among the things like the sort of status of women in the world it's big stuff in a way did you feel that then definitely I was never good at like the cheerleader part

like I was never I never got it I auditioned for it would have loved to have gotten on some show like where I got to play a high school student like I would have been like that would have been like mine dream you know to like that was what we all wanted some of us on the sale

bought it I wanted to be in girl interrupted I wanted to work with Martin Landau I was I was playing a high schooler who never went to high school so you know probably why you were better at it but I just never

I never fit into that world and I only fit into the weird stuff like I only was cast in like not like seriously not for lack of trying I would have loved to have been on a long running show like that but I just wasn't casting it it wasn't I was I was always doing like instead these for the more dramatic weirder meteor kind of roles the first you're obviously gifted they're Like, oh, she's, she's gifted. Put her, no, no, no, no, no, no. The only television she can do is the West Wing.

It's the only television we're going to let this woman do. Exactly. Exactly. But that was, that was kind of what it was like. It was like I couldn't get into the other stuff, but not for lack of trying or lack of wanting to, wanting to, you know, it just, I didn't fit. I didn't fit into those worlds. Madman was the first pilot I ever did.

And I tried out for millions. That is wild. It's so, yeah. I never got a pilot. Didn't get a pilot to save my life. Wow. Never got one. No, no.

No, no, you saved your life by not doing silent after private. I don't know. And we'll be right back. All right. So let's just, let's just real talk as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. That dates me, doesn't it? But no, real talk.

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access to 25 language courses for life. Visit Rosettastone.com slash podcrush to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to Rosettastone.com slash podcrush and start learning today. when you got the script for madman because madman is now considered like not just an incredible show but like that it changed sort of the trajectory of television maybe like inaugurated the golden era it has like such a unique role how did you feel when you read that script how did sort of being at there at the beginning before it had that kind of lured to it what was it like to be there on the ground you so i was in new york i'd moved to new york and um i uh yeah uh yeah It was 23, and there were two shows going around at the time.

Everybody was auditioning for it. Everybody was really excited about. Madman and then this other show that I'm not going to see, the Mool-Law on the podcast, but was like, that was the one everybody really wanted to be on. And Madman was kind of like, okay, like it's a good script. It's interesting, but it's on this network that no one's ever heard of. Yeah.

And it's kind of niche and, you know, it's maybe like a little slow and it's set in 60s and advertising, which is what's sexy about advertising? Like, no one was thinking that at the time. Yeah. Advertising was boring. But then there's this other show that was like super cool. And everybody went there. And- It was a gossip girl.

It was that girl. Okay, Brian. I was maddenial. Wait, hang on. I am curious, what year is this? Is this 2006 or seven or eight? Do you remember? Oh, God, I'm so bad at that.

Okay, all right. I was just curious because for me, it was the breaking bad scripts that was the one that was like... Oh, really? It was the one, you know? That was the same year as Gossip Girl, but that's the only reason I was thinking about it, yeah. Oh, wow, that was the one that everybody wanted to do.

That's the one that got away for Penn. It was the one that got away. So it was before... I was trying to remember if, like, had Mad Men come out, and they were all... I actually think... think breaking bad was like you know it was still this question of what television could do it was not clear and i know that when i read that script i was like okay this is in a completely different voice

from any television and i'd read a lot of television scripts and they all felt yeah in the same world this is like this is different yeah breaking bad came right after madman like maybe by a year or something because it's very very close yeah yeah and and yeah that was even almost even more niche right like at the time. I can't imagine. Anyway, so I auditioned for Burr and I remember the Mad Men auditioned.

I went in three times and it just felt right. And it's just hard to describe when it feels like that. It just feels like you understand who this person is and you know this. I just knew who she was. She wasn't me,

but I knew who she was. And it just felt so right. And I loved playing her from the minute I started, in the first audition to the minute it ended, you know, nine years later. I just got who she was. And then I ran into the, the other, the other show. And it was in the waiting room was like all these beautiful people, like gorgeous, like model looking girls, you know, that like everybody was like so skinny and so pretty.

And I was like, there's no way I'm getting that. So it's gossip girl. You're talking about gossip girl. It wasn't got a girl. It was God's the same show. No, that's the thing.

It's got the girl was way more successful than the show. I got Mad Men. And this other show ended up getting canceled like halfway through the first season. And the Mad Men obviously became what it was.

So it was definitely it was a big lesson at the time in kind of, you know, do end up where you're supposed to end up. Like you were saying, Penn, it does kind of like, you just, some towns, it just kind of, you end, you just go where you're supposed to go. And I was definitely supposed to be on that show.

Elizabeth, you said something sort of casually on another podcast, but it just piqued my interest. You were talking about something to do with Handmaid's Tale, which, by the way, I'm obsessed with. I think one of my favorite shows. And when I tell people that, they're like, something's wrong with you. No, but clearly so many people feel the same way.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But you mentioned something about getting an opportunity to direct one of the finale's and then calling your mom to, like, run it by her and just like check in. And I thought that that was really cute. I thought, oh, that's, I don't know. I just, I wanted to know more about your relationship with your mom. Aw, that's sweet. I have a very close relationship with my mom. I actually, it's funny you bring up that particular story because literally yesterday.

I showed her the end of my new show, The Vail, because I wanted to show her this music cue at the end. But I am very, very close with her. She's not, I always say this. He's not some people say like, oh, like, my mom's my best friend. That is not the case. My mom is definitely my mom. Yeah. You know, like she holds that role.

She wears that hat. And I would prefer it that way. Like, we're not the kind of like, we're not gal pals. Like, she definitely is my mom and I'm her daughter. but we are very close and she's everybody likes my mom more than they like me. She's very cool. So you're not friends with your mom,

but all of your friends are friends with your mom. That's really funny. Exactly. Exactly. Like I literally will like go somewhere that my mom has been before and like I can predict that it's going to happen, whether it's like a hotel front desk or a store or wherever. And the person's always like, I met your mother.

Oh my God. She is so lovely. And I'm like, I know. I know. She's great. That's really sweet, Elizabeth. Speaking of the veil, actually, I had heard that you broke your back in a scene. And at the time, I said, that sounds insane. And then now hearing about your ballet career, I'm like, okay, I guess that makes a little bit more sense, like your commitment. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yeah. I don't know if this was so much commitment or just stupidity. I did. I fractured a vertebrae in my back doing this rooftop scene. Very cool sounding. We were shooting a fight scene on a rooftop in Istanbul. We did it twice because the first time I hurt my back.

I did this thing where I go back over a wall and hit it the wrong way. And I did heal after about six weeks and we did go back and shoot it again. We were able to do it in a way where we padded the wall this time. And I was wearing more padding where I should be wearing padding. Yeah. Spine. And so we were able to do it in a safe way this time. but I had a sunbeble for sure who didn't be this other move that I can do.

Did you know that you'd broken your back in the moment? Or was it somehow one of those things where you're just in a lot of pain but you're not sure? It was so bad. It made sense when I found out I had fractured the vertebrae because it explained why it hurt so much. I was like, oh, okay. It was awful. And the director said that she knew that something had really gone wrong because I stopped the take and like I will never ever stop the take unless my back is broken.

I laid on the rooftop for two hours. Elizabeth. I couldn't get up. Oh my gosh. I laid on the rooftop. We were six flights up, no elevator.

We were shooting in the Istanbul Grand Bazaar. So there's no like, there's no elevators. It's like, you know, it's what it is. It's gorgeous, but it's old. You were shooting on the rooftop of that? I've been there once. I have been there too.

That's an amazing location. Yeah. It's not incredible. I know. And you just got to lay on the, that rooftop for two hours. I don't know. It's like,

that's a vacation Elizabeth. Honestly, not so terrible. Was it warm? No, it's freezing, wasn't it? Oh my gosh. It actually got,

it actually was fine. It wasn't not cold. I would say, the more I'd like, I'd complain. No, no, no. You shouldn't complain about the breaking back.

No, no. Remember at one point, though, because we were shooting in time to shoot at a sample, obviously, you don't shut it down.

Right. It still continues grand bazaaring. Yeah. You just shoot around. It's like, we're doing this for, at least a thousand years.

We're going to keep going. We don't care. We're going to be selling the spices regardless of whether or not you're here. But I remember at one point because I was so worried about whether or not we were going to get the scene and I knew we were going to be able to come back and we were leaving for Paris the following week.

And I suggested, I said, can you just put a green blanket over me and shoot with my stunt double around me and then just like scrum me out and post? They were like, wait wait wait wait wait wait wait just to be clear are you saying that you couldn't move but you wanted them to finish shooting the scene so you suggested throwing the green blanket over you where you were just so they could like like step around you like a like a pile of trash or something that is exactly what I suggested wow I still think it wasn't the worst idea I couldn't move there was nothing I mean I had to wait until I was able to sit up and stand up and walk. There was nothing I could do.

I was like, why don't we just keep shooting? I have a stuble. Let's go. They did not, they did, that idea was not approved. That said so much about you. Once we established that I was not,

my blood pressure wasn't dropping or rising, which is, I'm not a doctor, but apparently that means you're not leading out on the inside. I relaxed and was able to just kind of, you know, there were like 10 people standing around me, looking at me,

staring at me and I did actually have to be like, can you guys just, like, go, like, stop studying at me and let me just figure out how I'm going to get through this. While we're on the topic of the veil, and we'll definitely get to handmade still because it's too iconic to skip. But while we're on the topic of the veil, I feel like you must be at a point in your career where you really can be very selective. So yeah, anything you want to share with our listeners about sort of the show, what drew you to it? It came to me as I was finishing season five, I think of him. made's tale. And I was really intent on not doing any television in this, like, I knew I was

going to have some time off between seasons. I didn't know I was going to have as much time off as I ended up having. But I was like, I'm not going to do another television show that I'm going to go deep news. And then, of course, you know, as soon as you make a plan, that's where it's going to definitely fly out the window. And I got sent these scripts by Stephen Knight, who is just like the unbelievable phenomenal writer and I read the first two and I just remember calling my producing partner and being like, God damn it. Like there's just there's just not this is better than anything else that we're reading. Like I don't know what to tell you. Like this is this is the best thing that we're reading right now and I know we kind of were trying to focus more on features

but I just I don't think we cannot do this. And it just because, the material was so good and so fun. And so I signed on and it was Stephen Knight for sure in his writing. It got me there, but it was also this incredible character that, you know, she's she's, it's, I hate

to say the thing that everybody says, but it is rare that you get a female character like this in an action kind of spy thriller. They're usually men. And I love those movies. I am super into the genre. I love

the born movies, Mission Possible movies, like all of them, like super, super into the genre. So I have no problem with them been doing it, but it's just rare that the woman.

Yeah, it really is. Yeah. Yeah. So I was very excited to get to play that kind of part. And she's cool and she's funny and she has like a fair share of, you know,

history and past that is still, you know, bothering her and plaguing her. But it's not her main, it's not it doesn't completely define who she is which i also thought was interesting i like the idea of playing a woman who is actually just really good at what she does yeah and that's what always happens with the male characters they don't necessarily have to have like a super dark backstory to justify them being really good at what they do and that i felt like imogen had that which i was

excited about yeah and i got to be in paris and turkey and that was cool too yeah yeah yeah That's amazing. Stick around. We'll be right back. Fall is in full swing, and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm, and save big, without compromising on quality. Quince has all the elevated essentials for fall. Think 100% mongoling cashmere from $50. That's right, $50, washable silk tops and skirts, and perfectly tailored denim, all at prices that feel too good to be true.

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but it's very dark, very heavy. And I wonder. That's not really my take on it. It's not really my read. Just a light watch. Someone's not getting the joke, I guess. Oh, it's a comedy. You know, that's what I was thinking.

Yeah. How do you handle, like, inhabiting that character of Offred for that long? And do you have any sort of rituals, tricks that you use to get into a lighter headspace? I exist in the lighter head space. So I don't, I'm the farthest thing from, like, a method actor. Actually, I want to say, I can tell that about, like, there's something about your smile. Yeah. And I'm like, there's no darkness in that smile.

Yeah. And there is something about, we live in an era where a lot of very sweet people, I think, are cast in these really phenomenally dark roles. Yeah. You know, and you, to me, I think you might be at the top of the pyramid of that. Like, you're really, you know, you're, because you're, I mean, you're doing it right now. You're like, you literally have a smile, and I hope you take this in the right way. it seems almost like a baby like you have this like incredible it's so nice it's like you know it's like this

radiant kind of very light thing very pure and then of course you know you like have this gravity when the camera's on you um that is it's just it's it's it's it's so good that sometimes it's exhausting it's like how are you doing how there's and look i mean you know i know i know something of what it is to play a dark character and you know have to move for a long but there's something about the this take that it has what it's what it's seeking to explore about the injustice at the plight of women ultimately you know that is like oof that is like free so you were in the middle of an answer forgive me but i just wanted to point these things out that you know that they're appreciate it, so.

I will never forget Penn Babry selling that my smile looks like the baby. I think that's pretty good as they all, thank you very much. I'm also like blushing. Yeah, I just, I'm not, I just don't find it helpful for me to actually exist in a dark place, in a real dark place. Yeah. It's just, it works for people. there are some brilliant actors

that do an incredible job and that I think all of that. It just doesn't actually work for me. I have to be able to kind of come in and out of things. I have to remain president and really in the moment. For me, that's just what works.

So I don't, obviously, like, it is dark material. The stakes are incredibly high. It's very relevant. And I'm highly aware of that. and I'm not shying away from that when the cameras are rolling

but in order for me I think to do that I have to actually be able to pop out of it really quickly and the other thing too is I've been an EP on the show for all six seasons and I started directing on the show in season four

you can't be in a dark space mumbling in a corner listening to music you know crying crying about your child when you have 150 people in a crew asking you what we're doing next. So it's just not

it just doesn't work. It's not conducive to running a set. So I don't know. I just So you're saying all these little, these method actor boys, they just need to direct as well pull up their big boy pants. Just stop mumbling in a corner is what I hear.

And I agree with you, frankly. I agree. I'm so hesitant to like, because obviously there's so many incredible actors who do work in that way. And it really works for them. And, you know, they turn out these unbelievable performances. It's just not me and who I am and how I, I just can't. I tried one. I tried to do, I did this movie, a little movie called Her Smell.

And I tried. I was like, I'm going to go, though, like, I didn't do like a little, like, I don't do like a little bit of this one. I'm going to try it. Why not? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I was like, this seems to work for, you know, people. And I lasted like two days.

And I was, I got bored. I just was bored. I was bored with myself. I was bored with how important I thought I was. I just was like, I can't do this. I forgot. Like, I would forget to do it. You know what?

Of any actor I've ever heard talking about a process, this is the one that resonates most with me. I, like, cannot for the life of me, like, take. Like it seriously when we're not rolling, I just, I just, you know, it's like, especially if you're going to play some, if you're going to try to bring reality to things like murder and good Lord, rape, you know, all this stuff. It's just like, you can't, I don't know, yeah, it's, it's unfathomable to me to try and sustain that. Well, also, like, they don't care whether or not you feel like you're in the moment. They want to go home or they want to do a good job and get back to their families. like they're not they don't have time for you to to be all to be self-indulgent but you started directing right on your show

i did yeah season four and i don't think i'm going to do it again no i know i'm not going to do it again because i didn't i specifically chose not to do it again because this role is so um you know the device of the show is i'm in like nearly every scene like nearly every shot and and i'm so required in a way that also with the voiceover, I have like no, you know, I can sign my life away. You know what it's like anyway, but it's just even on top of the

normal starring role, it's just like, wow, I'm in everything. And so the prep editing, when I did it it was like if my family had been with me in London for that period, they would have been like, this is pointless. We literally haven't seen him for six weeks.

You know, it was so full on. But, you know, within that, really did enjoy it for what it was worth. Yeah. It was like running a marathon. I just was like, you know, I don't want to do that again this season. Oh, it's, it is all consuming. There's no getting away.

If you're acting and something, if you're leading a show and directing it, yeah. That's it. That is your life. There's nothing else going on. Yeah. How did you feel directing yourself? There's very few actors.

There's very few actors and directors that I can actually speak to who have done it. Yeah. Like I have. So I'm actually curious, like how. I actually feel like I thought about it less, frankly. I was actually more prepared technically than I've ever been in my life. Exactly. Because like I knew I knew the whole thing.

And then I was like, oh, now I have to action. You know, like it was just it actually was less of a thought than it ever had been. And there's a few moments where I think to myself, well, I always think this if I ever see anything. I could have done a little bit more work there could have put more work in there but there's there's a moment there's a moment where you know we we were so behind

and you know what it's like to shoot television I mean it's like even though you might be doing something in a very cinematic level you do not have a cinematic schedule in movies a little bit of boring bit for the listener in movies you have time in television you don't you start the day with like

three executives being like you're behind we're losing a million dollars already you know and it's like you have to it's really crazy actually you're like Bob Iger you're not even part of Netflix why are you on this what are you doing here? Not now bro not now I have to address myself

you don't own this work but there is literally one there is one shot and it's a pivotal moment it's a very very pivotal moment in the episode and I just like I'm just just running by the seat of my pants at this point. And I kind of wanted to put a little bit of comedy in it.

It was a really big moment in the cage. Like the cage moments are big with the glass box. And so, you know, I just do it. And I spin around and give this one take performance. And, you know, it's funny. I like it. But it would have been nice to be like, hey, do I have one that's less funny?

Right. Do I have one while I'm trying to thread the needle less and I'm just fully committed to the moment? because that you know that's that's dangerous it's dangerous on a show like this i mean actually on your show you don't ever do you ever get the chance to to to is there is there is there is there a sense of humor comedy like like i mean is that there we think it's funny like yeah we think stuffers like we think aunt rydia is really funny sometimes yeah yeah um you know obviously brad is funny. Bradley Woodford's funny. Like

Commander Lawrence can be really funny. Yeah, he is. Yeah, it's true. Commander Lawrence is funny. Yeah, like I don't mean to say your show doesn't have a sense of humor. It's just like it's doing what it does so well. Yeah. It doesn't. Yeah, like it's not like, it's not a show that you really laugh at that much. Like we think stuff is funny because we think

a character is funny for doing that. Yeah. Yeah. But I don't think it's a show necessarily that we're like digging for laughs. But I also don't find the drama unpleasant I like the way it feels I like to be dramatic I like to scream and yell and cry I think it's really fun

so I don't find it like a traumatic experience to go there I'm like how often do you get to like scream in somebody's face you're not supposed to do that yeah that's really quite freeing in something yeah yeah I did this scene

with Serena season I don't remember season four or five, but where I scream at her in her face and, like, I got like really close and then screaming out her and I think, I had the turn of my life. It was joyful. I was laughing hysterically

after because how you don't get to do that. You're not supposed to scream in someone's face. Yeah. There are certainly times when you want to. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, I should tell you that Madeline Brewer, Maddie, is now on my show. I was going to say that, but then I, like, panicked for a second as whether or not that was public information or if I knew it personal.

I'm pretty sure. I am so excited for you guys. And I think it is so brilliant to cast her. I think she's the greatest actress of her generation, period. I will stand by that. Wow. Like, Maddie is so phenomenal. And you'll see once you actually get in the room with her.

how brilliant she actually is. I actually could feel it. I could feel when we were just doing our sort of chemistry read. Yeah. You know, and I imagine, I'll ask her. I don't know if she'll do it. I want her to come on this after we've, you know, done the season because it's such a nice thing to do.

But, you know, in her first read, she was very nervous. And I knew she was very talented. And it wasn't like it wasn't clear at all. I was just like, oh, you know, is she nervous? Like it didn't even occur to me that she would. I felt like she, of course, deserves to be there. I know that I'm often nervous when I don't need to be. But I think she was nervous enough that she was maybe, I mean, I hate auditioning.

I'm a terrible auditioner. So then she came back again. And then her turn in between the first and the second time I saw her, it was like, it was like night and day. And I was like, oh, I mean, like, yeah, I don't know if anybody's not sure, but we need to get her. for yeah i think you'll you'll i'm i'm really curious actually to hear about it after you guys work together because everything's on the surface which is an incredible thing to witness like she's not she's so alive this woman and this actress that you can't it's just everything is like right there on the surface and it's an incredible thing to harness as a director because you can just

tell her like one little thing and she'll make an adjustment and it'll be it'll be 10 times better than you thought it was going to be but she's she's a very very present and very very alive so I'm not surprised if she was nervous

that she wasn't hiding it because she I don't think I don't think she can but she's also incredibly you know versatile and confident and I agree she had absolutely nothing to be nervous about but she obviously wanted the job so I'm glad she got it yeah yeah turns out she said she was it she said she was a fan

today in the camera test and I was just like oh well she's also a lovely human like she's a really lovely person and so fun and she'll yeah you'll you're gonna love working with her I'm really excited she's incredible in handmade's tail yeah she's incredible like the tender moments yeah I mean actually literally like it's it's it's it's kind of like I was saying to you it's almost like how are you sustaining that level of intensity for, you know, that is really, really hard to do. Yeah. I think you'll, I think you'll see with Maddie. We're very similar in that way.

Like, she, we don't stay in it. You know, she's very much, you know, joking around and being herself in between takes and then can sort of just like slam right back back into it. I'm just different, different breeds of actors, I guess. Yeah. Well, we have a last question. Will that Penn ask you? If you could go back to 12-year-old, Elizabeth, what would you say or do?

I think I would encourage myself to enjoy my life and enjoy where I was. You know, the classic answer, which I've given before, and I've heard other guests give as well as, you know, telling your 12-year-old self, you're going to be okay, or it's going to be okay. But I was thinking about, I was thinking last night about, why do you say that? And I think the reason why you say that is because you feel like at that time you weren't enjoying what was going on enough, where you weren't relishing it enough or being in the moment enough or enjoying being young and all of the possibilities that are in front of you. And so I think I would say maybe not it's going to be okay, but just try to encourage

myself to enjoy where you're at, which is so hard. I probably wouldn't live like. listening, they probably wouldn't have understood why, you know, why I was telling myself that because you just don't have that perspective when you're that age, but, um, but it was a great time. It was a, it was a good time. It was, and I, I, I definitely, uh, I definitely would encourage myself to enjoy it. Yeah. But I feel like that way now. Like, I feel like every day now, I'm constantly like, trying to, you know, remind myself, like, enjoy where you're, where you're at. Don't worry so much. Yeah. Yeah. That's great. That's timeless advice. yeah yeah and it's easy to do which is nice you just hear it you're like oh yeah oh sorry why you're spending all this time of worrying so dumb anyway oh i forgot on the rest of my life yeah all i needed was that friendly reminder thank you

yeah well you're welcome uh Elizabeth thank you so much for coming on it was really yeah it's really nice to just bask in your like exuberance and your life So lovely. You are just like pure light and joy. Thank you guys. This has been really, really fun. I really appreciate it. We do. It's so grateful.

Yeah. Hope to meet you someday in person. Yeah. I would love that. I would love that, truly. Thanks guys. And I'll keep listening to the podcast. Keep crushing it.

You guys are doing amazing job. Thank you. Oh, I said keep crushing. I love it. We're going to use that. That's our, that's our opening now. Elizabeth Moss. That's this season's merch.

Now I was making sure of it. She's like, Maas says, crush it. Keep crushing it, Elizabeth Moss. Any merchandise, I'm here. Perfect. Thanks, guys. I appreciate it. Bye.

Bye. You can catch episodes of The Vale streaming on Hulu now, and you can keep up with Elizabeth Moss online at Elizabeth Moss Official, Elizabeth with an S. We are so excited that you can now listen to Pod Crush ad free on Amazon Music. In fact, you can listen to any episode of Pod Crush ad free right now on Amazon Music with an Amazon Prime membership. I'm a fan of Joe, and I was so exciting. Oh, that's crazy to hear, Elizabeth. I can't handle that information.

Yeah, I knew, not to be like weird, but I am a fan. I knew you had a baby. Oh, my gosh. Elizabeth, I'm blushing too much. okay wait where's my voice just Elizabeth while we're while we're trading things you obviously are one of the most

phenomenal talents of our generation but my dad wanted me to say that to you when I told him he was like oh my god you got Elizabeth Moss you have to tell her she's one of the most phenomenal talents of a generation oh yeah hey dad that's so nice

Tommy could just say it to my face you know he could just say it to my face Yes.