Podcrushed - Extra Credit: Your Stories (Naya Hassan)

Episode Date: November 20, 2023

In this week’s extra credit YOUR STORY episode, Nayya Hassan opens up about her teenage experience with a forced arranged marriage to her own cousin. Nayya blows the team away with her strength, resilience and courage.Follow Podcrushed on Socials: InstagramTikTokXSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

And I was like, okay, this is unfair, unlike, you know, so many levels, like, men are so privileged. You could be like, you know, twice my age. You could be, like, married before. And you still, if you say that, okay, you want to marry me. My parents would be like, yeah, take her. And I don't have, like, any say in that. to Pod Crushed If you're here you're in too deep you're in way too deep

this is a bonus listener episode of Pod Crushed welcome to the ever expanding world of Podcrushed our episode today is you know we always say they're special

don't we this one was the most emotional we've ever gotten for sure like undoubtedly Navan I definitely cried did you cry now I did you pen

I'm pretty sure I could I mean, if I didn't cry, I was like, well, somebody's got to hold it together, but I, but I, I was, I was on the edge. I mean, I was tearing up and if I, I could have let it go. Yeah, it was emotional. It's not exactly middle school, but it is formative. And, and I, and I think it's particularly one that has to do with, with the empowerment of, of a young woman. Naya Hassan, we really struggled to edit this one down. It was a long and deep conversation. But we have a story of a young girl who is whose perseverance and hope it was at least like kind of staggering to us, the three of us here. We hope it will, we hope it comes through.

We hope you feel the same way. I don't know what else to say to frame it. I think we just got to dig in. My co-hosts evidently are absent. Well, I didn't want to say stick around. Yeah, well, I'll say it. Stick around. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored?

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he cannot get enough. So he's a lambie laugh guy. Keep mealtime exciting with nom-num available at your local pet smart store or at chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrush spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. Why do we do what we do? What makes life meaningful? My name is Elise Lunin, and I'm the author of Oner Best Behavior and the host of the podcast Pulling the Thread. I'm pulling the thread.

I explore life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves, others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to Pulling the Thread from Lemonada Media, wherever you get your podcasts. So my name is Naya Hassan and I grew up in Pakistan and then I moved to the UK because I got into the London School of Economics for my master's. Rather than that, I love to cook and my toxic trade is actually just, you know, watching food videos just before bedtime and then drooling myself to death. Yeah. Wow. I like how specific you are.

I also like that like one way to get to know someone now is like, Yeah, well, so my toxic trait. Let's all go around and tell our toxic traits. That's a kind of a thing. That's a great banter question. And that's something that the young people are doing these days. Yeah, really. So anyway, share with us your story.

Okay. I always found it, like, very hard to, you know, make a place for myself in a society, which was just so, you know, male-oriented. And I'm like, the eldest daughter, and I have three younger sisters. So I was kind of the one who would always have to fight not only for myself, but also for my sisters. Since I was a child, like people would ask me, oh, do you have a brother?

And I was like, no, I have three younger sisters. And they would be like, oh, oh, that's sad. And then even like, you know, to my parents, they would be like, oh, so you don't have a son. Oh, that's so sad to hear. And my sisters and I, we had sort of this, you know, inferiority complex since, you know, since we were kids, that, oh, so we are not enough, you know, for our parents. And for us to be a complete family, we need a brother. We had to, you know, just convince our parents to let us study because my relatives would be like, you should get her marriage, you should get her married.

So at one point, my parents really just started feeling the pressure. and I joined university. I was like in my freshman year. And this one day my mom just picked me up from, you know, my university. And she like so like, you know, out of nowhere, she's like, oh, so what would you like to wear like on your wedding? Like, is this some kind of sick joke? My wedding, like this out of nowhere. And she's like, yeah, we're putting you into marriage.

How old were you at the time? I was 19. So, yeah, so my mom was like, yeah, we're putting you into marriage with one of your cousins. And I was like, sorry, say that again. And to say, yeah, you are getting married. And that cousin was like twice my age. I was 19. He was around 41.

And my family was like so, you know, normal, so casual about it. I was like, what are you even thinking? There's no way. I'm not marrying him. I'm not marrying him. I'm not marrying anyone. They're like, it's not for you to decide. We have already, you know, like everything is decided. And we have even decided the dates and you are getting married.

So I was like, I'm not accepting this. And then they started to, you know, blackmail me, emotionally. Oh, you are like, you know, such a disgrace to the spam. They were like, okay, if you do. don't marry him, we just won't pay for your university and we'll just pull you out. And at one point, I was like, okay, if this is what it takes, do that. But then my dad, he got like very emotional. So he started just, you know, threatening my mom. He was like, okay, you have to convince her somehow. Otherwise, I'm just going to abandon you and, you know, your daughters. Like,

basically all my, basically like my mom and my sisters. And that was the breaking point. I was like, okay, if it's just me on stake, fine. I can sacrifice myself. But if it comes to my sisters and my mom, then, you know, I really can't do this. So I got married in August 2018. And I think by end of September, I was like, what have I done? You know, like, you do something and sort of just like an instant

regret. What was that first month or a few weeks like together with before you came to that decision in September? What was that first week like when you're sort of in this forced marriage? I went into depression and I wouldn't want to like talk to anyone. I lost my appetite. And I was just so, like, you know, so unhappy, so grueling. I felt like, you know, my life was over. Like, there was no purpose left. I wasn't, like, sent to live with him physically. But I signed the papers, so I was like, his wife.

He was my husband. And my families were like, okay, she will just, like, stay with her parents until she gets, like, the spouse visa, whatever. So I was still, like, living with my parents with my sisters and I was but I was like I would just you know keep myself locked up I was like okay I don't even want to like go to university my parents were like okay you can study further but I was like I just don't see like any point in doing any of that but I'm just so unhappy with my life and if I'm like the kind of mental state that I was in I was

like I just don't see any point in you know pursuing my dreams anymore because I feel like Like, my life is over. And you said this was your cousin, right? So that's common, I mean, that's a more common practice in Pakistan and other places. Like cousin marriage, right? Yeah, that's a very common place. That's like, that's a preference to, you know, just get your daughter's married to cousins. So it's actually like kind of funny you grew up calling them your brothers.

And then you're told, oh, okay, so you're just getting married to that cousin brother. And it's like, okay, what? And also, like, I had this feeling that, you know, he was so involved in this. I felt like this was all, like, plotted against me. He chose you. Yeah. And I was like, okay, this is unfair on, like, you know, so many levels. Like, men are so privileged.

You could be like, you know, twice my age. You could be, like, married before. And you still, if you say that, okay, you want to marry me, my parents would be like, yeah, take her. And I don't have like any say in that. You said that your parents had social pressure to set you up in a marriage. What else? What other motivation was there for them to push you into this scenario? So in 2013, my dad had like an open heart surgery.

And after that, like, I still remember I was like in the hospital and my dad was fighting for his life. And some of my relatives, they'd be like, oh. he has like this heart problem because he has four daughters and he's just so worried for them and they're like a burden on him and that was just like the kind of impact that it had in me it was massive because you're basically telling the child that you know you were responsible for you know your father's heart disease but basically like long story short like after my dad like he had like a heart attack and then he had an old open-out surgery. So after that, he was very like into the idea of just, you know,

putting us into marriage. Because in Pakistan, the idea of a girl being settled is not like, you know, when she starts to earn for herself or, you know, when she completes her education. The idea of being settled is like, you know, when she's married, she has a family of her own. She has kids. So, yeah, I think that's when it. all started and I was still like very young but I would hear my parents talking about my marriage but at like till that point they were only just talking it was only like you know in my first year of university when I was like okay now it's actually like you know taking the form of reality so how did you end up ending the marriage how did you come to that decision what did that look

like among your family I saw like a whole life ahead of me that was like I was like I I cannot, you know, I wouldn't want to spend a second with that guy, let alone my whole life. And also then I thought about my sisters and I was like, what kind of, you know, example am I sitting for them that they would have to settle for things like these as well, just because there is external pressure and just because, you know, your parents sort of lure you into this trap. And the answer was, no, I don't want this for them. And then I was like, okay, I should just talk to the guy. So I just called him up.

I was like, listen, you always knew this. And I'm saying this again to you. I don't want to spend my life with you. And like the circumstances, the kind of circumstances that I have, I just don't know how to sort of, you know, just proceed with the divorce thingy so it would be best if you just like you know do it yourself and just like I want to be free I don't want I don't want to be with you I don't want to be in this marriage and he instantly like called my mom and then he was like you have to like convince her

and stuff and he was just I don't know playing all these games and then my parents were very upset with me, and they were like, and it's funny how they said, why did you agree to it in the first place? I was like, I didn't agree. That's like, how can you say that? I never agreed to it. And they were like, okay, but you're showing all this resistance now. Why didn't you show it beforehand?

I was like, did you really like me? You blackmailed me. You threatened me. You were like ready to abandon my sisters. and everything. And now you're saying that, why didn't I show resistance? Like, I'm human.

And I sort of, you know, I fought as much as I could. But then you really left me with no option. But anyway, after that, they were like, okay, so we really have to show her, you know, that she's nothing without us. So they were like, okay, from now on, we're not paying your university fee

and now we'll see how you go to university. don't go anywhere we'll be right back all right so um let's just let's just let's just real talk as they say for a second that's a little bit of an aged thing to say now that that dates me doesn't it um but no real talk uh how important is your health to you you know on like a one to ten and i don't mean the in the sense of vanity i mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well right you want to be less stressed, you don't want to get sick. When you have responsibilities, I know myself, I'm a householder, I have two children and two more on the way, a spouse, a pet,

you know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting to sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so, honestly, I turned to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with.

The three that I use, I use the, what is it called, liposomal vitamin C, and it tastes delicious, like really, really good. comes out in a packet you put it right in your mouth some people don't do that i do it i think it tastes great i use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning um really good for gut health and although i don't need it you know anti-aging um and then i also use the magnesium l3 and 8 which is really good for for i think mood and stress i sometimes use it in the morning sometimes use it at night all three of these things taste incredible um honestly you you don't even need to mix it with water uh uh and yeah i just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off

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Because obviously they saw like the huge age cap. They saw my resistance. And they were like, this is an effort. Don't do this to her. Later on, when I was married to him and I was like, okay, no, I cannot do this. and I want to divorce. At that point, they were like, why are you causing so much trouble for us?

Because my parents would fight a lot. And obviously, like, you know, the whole situation in the house was very, you know, sort of depressing. Now they're like, thank you for doing what you think. But at that point, they were against it. And they were just as discouraging as, you know, anyone else. But I dreamed and, you know, I had like this goal that, no, I let this happen to myself, sort of, but not to my sisters.

And I dreamed against hope. I dreamed against reason, against means, against all discouragement there could ever be. Because I feel like that was the one thing no one could take away from me at that point. No one could, you know, stop me from dreaming. And I dreamed of a life where I was free, independent, living life on my own terms. So the next day, I went to my university and I sort of spoke to the admin. And I was like, I cannot pay my university plea. And I sort of told them my situation.

And they were like, I remember this one lady. She was like, oh, so nice done. you're pulling you pulled a very nice stunt and she was just as you know discouraging as anyone else and she was like I really think you should just listen to your parents and I was like okay and that day I was so like so heartbroken because it was coming from a woman who knows you know what happens in that society and how girls are created, but I feel like some things have become so common that people have stopped seeing the wrong in them. So when you choose to fight against it, you are not the hero, you're the villain.

And that is actually what I wanted to challenge. I was like, just because it's so common, just because it has been practiced for so long, doesn't mean it's right. This is so powerful, Naya. Thank you for articulating that. Yeah. So at that point, I was alone and I knew that it was me against the world. That's how I saw it. But I was like, okay, if nobody's helped, there must be away surely. So I transferred to another university and I spoke to them. And I gave like an entrance test sort of. and I got like very good at marks in that and they were like okay we're giving you a 50% scholarship I was like I cannot pay that a 50% you know I just can't at this point and then they were like okay it just come and study and they were so supportive and it's amazing finally you get you have somebody supporting you yeah yeah so it took time but then then I started like working I was doing

part-time jobs. I did like three part-time jobs. I was working for a US-based company as a customer care representative. Then I was also like working as a research assistant. And I would also do like, you know, that peer tutoring thing where you just like teach your classmates and they give you a few bucks. So I was doing all of that. And then my parents, they were like, she is still doing fine. And then came again, the emotional blackmail. We did so much for you.

And we sent you to, you know, good schools and how you're doing this to us. And I just feel like, you know, to give birth and to take away the right to live is the worst thing you can do to your child. And that is what they were. That is what they were doing to me. But I was unstoppable.

Everything that they did, it sort of, it actually acted like as, you know, as my motivation. I was like, okay, if your parents can do this to you, anyone can. And that is the sole reason you have to be like so self-sufficient. You know, I got divorced in 2020. He was like the guy he was like so done. He knew at that point that, okay, this girl is, you know, no, there is no chance. So he just like sent me the divorce papers and I didn't tell anyone in my family. Luckily that day when like, you know, the doorbell rang, I was the one who went to the door.

and I opened the envelope and they were like the divorce papers and oh my God that day I felt like okay so but I knew that it was still not over because I thought if my parents get to know about it the divorce they would just put me into marriage with like you know someone else and I was like no I somehow have to hide it until you know I'm like somewhere else at that point. I didn't know if I would be in the UK, in the U.S. because I was just like flying for universities. Naya, your courage is so inspiring.

I feel I'm having a hard time. I'm being quiet because I'm having a really hard time not getting emotional about it. I just, I can't imagine, like you said, your home, you knew and you felt that your home should your safe place and that your parents should have protected you and they should have had your best interests at heart and your ability to to continue on knowing that you would have to let go of that of that nest that you had you know um and to to keep going when you're facing so much backlash from not only your family your community but even your school and to to find another school, I just, it's like courage and, and energy. Like, I can't imagine how much energy that must

have taken to continue on when you're, you're just being met with rejection. And I, it just reminds me of, of, like, the power of young women and it's really moving. Yeah, I feel like it's such a blessing to know that, you know, you are, you're self-sufficient, because, At that point, you know, okay, you don't have to fit in. You really don't have to pretend to be okay with things that you're not. And at this point, I feel like I have it. I do not care what, you know, anyone thinks of me. Even like if, you know, if somebody like from my family or from my friend's circle,

if they listen to this, you know, podcast, they would be like, oh my God, she is so like, you know, ungrateful her parents did so much for her and look she's talking ill about them and just to be honest I'm not talking ill about my parents it's just about society it's about the culture and also I want to highlight that like you know this is a great example of how material privileges are just that they're material they're not you know the the stuff of life that that matters at least as much much more is invisible you know which is like relationships and and and things like dignity and honor and so I just also want to name that you know you're talking about self-sufficiency and independence in a way that yet is so powerful but what I think is really commendable to

you and what I think is like the true self-sufficiency you're talking about and the thing that is so courageous is that it sounds like what actually inspired you the most was that you didn't like you were almost willing to make the sacrifice for yourself but you didn't want to set a bad example for your younger sisters and that so it's almost like for all the independents you're talking about and in some ways not feeling as though you can rely on anybody you were still doing this in the spirit of the like service to others which is just I don't know like that to me is like when all else was failing that that's where you were drawing your strength from.

Yeah. And I'm not sort of, you know, big on sharing personal details about myself. But the whole reason for, you know, just because I saw like your story on Instagram and you were like, okay, just send us your stories and then we'll select one person. And I was like, is this sort of a sign that, you know, I should speak about it? Because my sisters, they witnessed everything for first time and they know about it. But there must be, you know, other people who would be struggling silently. Maybe they could take inspiration from it.

Because when I was struggling, when I was, you know, in that position, I needed just one person, just one person to tell me that I'm doing the right thing. Just one person to tell me that, you know, that they believe in me, that I have to keep going, that what I'm doing is right. and there was absolutely no one. I had to do that for myself every night. And it was hard. So if anyone can take inspiration from it,

I would believe that my job is done. I know that people will. I know people will for sure. You know, Naya, I have a few other questions I want to ask you, but there's someone who I really admire who talks about sort of how we bring about justice in the world. and one thing I've heard him say is like in the process of working towards justice you must endure injustice

if you don't face injustice yourself you're certainly not working for justice like it's not possible to do it in a removed way and I and I remember at the time when I heard it it was really striking because it's like maybe we want these outcomes but we don't want to suffer so we're not willing actually to like go against the current or actually I know that this practice is unfair but I'm just going to keep my mouth shut because that's easier and you didn't do that like in a practice In the process of fighting for justice, because I think also that's what you were fighting for more equality, a more just situation where you have a say in the outcome of your life, you endured a lot of injustice.

Like you withdstood it, but now you've created a more just environment for yourself, but also for your sisters who have now had the chance to go abroad, for listeners who are going to take inspiration. So I just want to commend you for that because I think it will have an impact. You've already had an impact, and it will continue to. But I want to know, what is your feeling about marriage now? That's a good question. I think marriage is beautiful. It's like just the idea of, you know, coming home to someone and just telling them about your day and just fronting and, you know, saying something without the feeling of being judged and just building life together. Just, you know, yeah, that does like, you know, that sounds like a good idea.

to me, but I don't think I'm ready for marriage just yet. Yeah, I feel like I still have to heal from, you know, some things. Yeah. Naya, you've talked a lot about being self-sufficient and the importance of finding that, which I understand in your situation. And I wonder if you have now also found people who you feel you can rely on or people who you feel you can trust. You don't have to say yes if it's not.

It's okay. If it's no. Yeah, I'm just, I was actually trying to think that's a very interesting question. No, I don't think I have like, you know, a go-to person. I don't think I have someone I can completely rely on. And maybe it doesn't have anything to do with, you know, the kind of people I hang around with. maybe it has to do like, you know, with just the stuff that I've been through. Like, I feel like when you are, you know, when, when like your sort of own parents abandon

you, you find it so hard to trust, you know, just anyone else. So I feel like this is one thing that would still take, you know, that would still take time. And yeah, but I would really want to have like someone. I can rely on. That would surely be a good feeling, but I need some more time for that. You need some more time for that. You come from such a religious culture and, you know, we're Baha'is. The only, I've had a, we've all have struggles in our life, whatever.

Like, sometimes I can feel the only thing I can rely on is God. Do you believe, do you have a spiritual practice? Like, is that what you were able to draw on? Yeah, so I used to pray a lot, like a lot. And there were times when I felt like, you know, God was actually guiding me to it, something. I don't know. I just had like this feeling that, okay, I am being guided to do it. This one time I actually remember, there was this.

I was here in London and I had to pay my LSC fee and I just, I was doing part-time jobs and everything, but I was still like a bit short on it. And I was really, like, you know, really upset. And I couldn't sleep that day. But then I was so tired because the part-time job that I was doing involved a bit of, like, physical labor. I was working in this, like, kitchen sort of job. And I was so tired. But I was at the same time so depressed that I couldn't sleep.

But then I prayed and I was like, I was just like, I talked to God very. often. That's like you have always, you know, shown me away. You have always taken me out of grave situations and you have always been there for me. So I will just sleep now knowing that you are, you're there for me this time as well. And hopefully like when I wake up, you would have found a solution for me. And I slept. And I don't know how, but I, I, I drove about something. I had a dream that I'm applying for like, you know, something. And basically, LSC, they have, like, approved it. And the next day I wake up, and I don't know how, but I'm searching, like, do they have any kind of financial support?

And I just, and the first thing that comes up, it's like LSC hardship fund, apply for it. And you hear within, like, they give you a decision within 24 hours. And I apply for it instantly. And the next thing I know is that within two hours, this guy, he gets back to me. And he's like, okay, I have reviewed your application. The only problem is that the money that you have asked for, I feel like it's not enough. You should ask for some more. Oh, my God.

And I'm like, I'm so depressed last night. And, you know, I slept with the whole that, you know, God. is, you know, finding a way for me, doing something for me, just as he always had. And I wake up and, you know, he's like, okay, the only problem, I read the only problem and my heart's sweet. And then he's like, the only problem is not enough for enough. Asked for enough. And then I was like, okay, I'm, I just asked for, you know, the amount that I actually need it. And it's very nice of you to say that I should ask for more.

But I would be happier if you use that amount of money to help someone. It's maybe like, you know, it's more like in need of it. Now you're just making us all look so bad. You have to stop. This interview is over. I refuse to let you go on being. Wow. A light.

I can't believe it. Sophie needs to take her shirt off. It's not just because she's pregnant. No, I'm totally a mess. I mean, oh. So beautiful. If I could, you know, say something to 12-year-old, I would just say that, you know,

just always stand up for what you believe is right. And it's not the easiest thing to do. In fact, far from it. but it's definitely the right thing to do. And you will notice that when you stand up for something, even if it's right, you would notice that the crowds around you would grow and the crowds with you would shrink.

But even that shouldn't sort of lower your morale. Even that shouldn't detract you. And if you feel like you're the only one, you know, fighting against the world, just hold your other hand, keep going. and there is light a band of the channel, and you will see it in a few years. Wow. Naya.

That's beautiful. Hold your other can. Naya, you're like a philosopher. Hold your other hand. I've never heard anyone say that before. Hold? Wow. I actually used to do that.

I used to do that. There were times when. I was like, I am so I don't have anyone And then I would do this And I was like, see, you've got like another Oh, nice job Hold it