Podcrushed - Gaten Matarazzo

Episode Date: November 26, 2025

The gang sits down with Gaten Matarazzo — the quick-witted Broadway kid who became a global sensation as Dustin Henderson on Stranger Things. Gaten takes us all the way back — from hustling backstage at Les Mis, to the chaotic on-stage disaster he’ll never live down, to the moment the beloved Steve-and-Dustin duo was born. We also dig into who Gaten is off-set — the music he’s making, the life he’s building, and what comes next now that Hawkins is in the rear-view.  Shop SKIMS Fits Everybody collection at https://skims.com/podcrushed. #skimspartner  Head to https://prettytasty.com and use code PODCRUSHED at checkout for your first subscription order FREE (up to a $49 value), plus 15% off every subscription order after that. Podcrushed listeners can grab Rosetta Stone’s LIFETIME Membership for 50% OFF at https://rosettastone.com/podcrushed.That’s unlimited access to 25 language courses, for life! Go to https://airalo.com and use code PODCRUSHED for 15% off your first eSIM. Terms apply.    00:00 Introduction  02:28 Gaten’s Early Career and Life 05:49 Challenges of Growing Up in the Spotlight 15:16 First Crushes and Relationships 22:10 Auditioning for Stranger Things 27:29 Reflecting on Early Auditions and TV Experience 29:33 Chemistry Between Dustin and Steve 31:37 Gross Moments on Set 33:09 Singing in Stranger Things 36:53 Saying Goodbye to Dustin 39:16 Future Plans and Reflections 49:04 Teaching Acting and Singing 52:13 Advice to Younger Self 53:18 Conclusion and Farewell   🎧 Want more from Podcrushed? 📸 Instagram 🎵 TikTok 🐦 X / Twitter ✨ Follow Penn, Sophie & Nava Instagram Penn Sophie Nava TikTok Penn Sophie Nava See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada. I was like doing like this weird, like, breathing thing that I heard on a YouTube video to help me get into it. And then I realized I almost missed my cue. And so I just run out really quickly because I hadn't been focused. And then I didn't say, I didn't sting my lines. I didn't sing them. What did you do?

So for a whole verse, I just did all the choreo, which is just me singing outwardly to the audience, yelling at them. And so much exposition, by the way. This is, like, the worst time to do it because I hop out and basically just tell you about the current events of the time in 1830s, France. And I wasn't telling them that.

And so... Were you just, did your mind blank? Like, why didn't you? I didn't even move my mouth. Oh, man. So hold on. So you were doing the choreography. The fact that you were still doing the choreography is amazing.

Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava. And I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Forgetting our lines for a big choreography number in our hit Broadway musical. Boo, you've never been on Broadway.

Stone cold. Welcome, welcome to Pod Crush. Welcome. It's the most one. Actually, I was going to sing a holiday song that might not be free for me to sing. Oh, that's true. You'll do anything to get out of singing. Our guest today was like such a special.

joy to speak with, Gait Madareso. So you know him as Dustin Henderson on Stranger Things. That is undeniably the big old meteor that hit the world, which he's known for. Gaten and the rest of the core of the Stranger Things cast has basically grown up on our screens. But beyond Hawkins, he is also a distinguished Broadway performer. He was before he even made it to Stranger Things. He made his debut as a pro at nine years old. He was in Les Mis.

He was in Dear Evan Hansen and Sweeney Todd years later. Today we are chatting with him about the highs and lows of his early life in the spotlight, and it was a really rich vein. We spend a lot of time considering things that are strange. You don't want to miss this one. Don't go anywhere. It's morning in New York. Hey, everybody.

I'm Mandy Patinkin. And I'm Catherine Grotty. And we have a new podcast. It's called Don't Listen to Us. Many of you've asked for our advice. Tell me, what is wrong with you people? Don't listen to us. Our Take It or Leave It Advice show is out every Wednesday,

premiering October 15th, a Lemonada Media Original. Gaten, we've never met in person. We've not. It's very nice to meet you, too, Penn. So nice to meet you, too, Pam. still not in person one day I'm sure it will happen but this is you know

as close as it can be it's yeah it's sometimes closer because we're gonna actually start at 12 years old for you because you're adolescence more than any guests we've had now we have had guests

whose adolescents did unfold in the public eye like for instance Drew Barry Moore is an iconic one I mean and her is even more than you you know but that was a little bit ago you more than any guests we've had have had it happen

very, very, very recently. Yes, this is true. You know, I mean, so you have a special place in our sort of like roster of guests. That's very nice to hear. I hope that that provides for some intrigue on this topic. So because we start at 12 and we know that you,

that's when you booked Stranger Things, can we just back up a little touch to like, you know, daily life snapshot of, Gaten's life, like, you know, leading up to that audition and getting that. So it's like pre. Right. Right. It was actually, it was the tail end of 12 for me.

So the year prior, I had just finished doing a run in Les Mis here on the Great White Way. And that was what that was, I did that between 11 and 12. I wrapped that up in March, a September birthday. So I wrap that up in March. and said I was going to focus on school and not worry about this for a long time. And then the audition came up. Wow.

My grades were slipping like crazy. So what was happening in your household? What were you like at home as you were sort of? Yeah, tell us about that. At that time, I was, we were living with my grandma at the time and going back and forth from the city quite a ton. So my day was, I was very hyper-scheduled, so there wasn't really much free time, but the time that I did spend, the time that wasn't free was the most enjoyable for me, which was, I think, very great and kind of, that's rare for that to be the case. So I would, yeah, I would go to school at my school in New Jersey where I grew up and I would leave about half an hour early and miss most of the last period, which was I remember was my science class.

And thankfully, my science teacher, Mr. Ardwin, was the coolest of the bunch. So he was, yeah, very lenient with it and knew I would get my work done on the bus, which is what I would go to the bus station, go up and do the show, finish that up, whenever that was, usually like. 11 p.m. And then I would get on the bus and come home and then start it all over again. That's a packed day. It was a packed day. And you're taking the bus.

Lots of bus naps for sure. My goodness. The bus trip up was always dedicated to homework. The bus ride back was dedicated to sleeping. And I slept more because my mom drove from the bus station to home. And so I would basically just hop on the bus. And because I'd done it for so long,

my body fully adjusted to the schedule to where the minute the lights in the bus turned off. You just were out. Lights out. Completely lights out. And then we just, I get into the car, lights out, until I got home, and I basically just, like, take my coat off and just, like, slump over.

So I got a good amount. I got the hours. Yeah. So we're no stranger here to, like, how, you know, kind of, like, intense that can be for kids and how traumatic, blah, blah, blah, blah. But also, the sense I get from you, and the sense, it can be, like,

it sounds like you just loved it. I loved it. It was stressful. The only, it was, I loved it so much that I think it became somewhat counterintuitive to me being a kid because it was a very accelerated process. It was, they're not

childlike responsibilities that you have to worry about. And because of that, I really, I wanted to just prioritize what I love to do. So everything that I should have been prioritizing at the time, which was my education and just enjoying being a kid

started to slip like crazy. My grades were terrible by the end of that run for the show. Because the way, workload got crazy. I started when I was in elementary school, and when you're in fourth and fifth grade doing it, that's the homework is doable. And then once you approach middle school, at least in the American education system, that's like when you start like bouncing around new, yeah, new classrooms every time you manage your own schedule a little bit, you're bouncing, you know,

the whole like high school movie like lockers and bouncing around classes and all that. It was a lot harder to manage because these teachers have a lot more students than just you. And so they can't really hyper fixate like a curriculum around dealing with it. And so there was a lot more personal responsibility. And eighth grade's harder than fifth. Yeah. So it was, yeah, it just became quite the issue. And rather than kind of hunkering down and worrying about focusing on that backstage, I was just enjoying my time and like I didn't, felt like I didn't really need to worry about it. And then my parents had that sit down talk of like, you got to. basically get it together

or else you're out of the show which is the right thing for them to have done that's the right thing for them to have said and that was like the first time I realized that I really don't think that I could have been doing anything else that I loved it so much because I never stopped to think actually is this what I want to be doing? Is this too stressful?

Is it too much? Should I just take this break? But then the idea of no longer doing it was the most terrifying thing in the world. I was like no, that's not an option for me And that was like the first time that I was like, okay, cool, this is like something that I know I need to do, which is cool to experience at 12, but also really scary. And kind of at the same time, luckily enough, we got a call like a week or so later that they weren't going to renew our contracts. Because when you're a kid working in theater, rather than just like signing a contract for the length of the show, you sign it usually for around six months because you get taller and voices change. you outgrow parts if a show runs for a long time

and we got that heads up that time the time had come it was well past you anyway we were way too old for the part both me and the other boy playing the part Josh had been too old for a long time we both toured with it when we were like 9 or 10 and continued doing it until we were almost 13 and that was just too old to the part

that's a crazy evolution so even within this very unique kind of paradigm you were even more so because you were like, oh, this show I could do with my eyes closed. That was kind, yeah, I had loved that part so much, and I'd been playing them for two years, like, two years straight. And it was so much fun. And it had been, like, my, that show had been my dream.

That's the reason I started acting was to audition for that show in any... Le Miz. Yeah, Le Miz, specifically, because my mom started me, or, like, basically just sat me down in front of the 10th anniversary concert when I was young. Growing up, I just, that became almost religious for me. And she was like, hey, there's a little boy part in this. You should sing that because I'd always been singing at home. And I was like, I will, I will.

It took a while, but yeah, it worked out. And I just love that routine, I think, more than anything. And the idea of that change and what came after and growing up was really scary because it was the ending of a pretty significant chapter for me. I'd heard you reflect, Gaten, on the fact that, like, for a lot of people, what gives them anxiety is actually putting themselves out there. but that for you, it's actually maybe the opposite. Like, you don't feel that anxiety from putting yourself out there.

I'm curious if that's still true. But also, if that's the case, like, was that the case when you started on Broadway, when you started in theater? Like, what was opening night, your first opening night like for you? Were you nervous? It was always nerve-wracking, but I think there's, I think every, I don't think anybody doesn't have stage fright. There's nobody in the world I don't believe that walks out and doesn't have a flutter

or doesn't feel it in their. in their gut when it's going, when it's about to happen for the first time. But I think it's, there's a nuance there. It's almost like it's either a panic attack anxiety or it's like a roller coaster anxiety. And that's what it was for me. It felt like skydiving. I think I've never been skydiving. But I'm assuming that that's kind of, it's.

It was more of an adrenaline rush, like palm sweating, heart pounding. But holy, holy crap, I can't wait. I think it's much scarier than skydiving. The potential for, it's got to having it's like, well, I'm either going to die or it's going to be fine, whereas there's so much more variety of humiliation. It's true. There's so many ways you can die a slow death. This is true. I learned to be excited about the potential for humiliating moments on stage.

I remember one time I hopped out on stage. Sometimes I treated, I was so obnoxious during the thing. I took it so seriously, which is, I think, a good thing. It's better than, like, just being like, nah. But I was so, like, I have to center around my choices. I was, like, 12. And I was, like, so, like, for lack of a bit, we're, like, douchey actor about it. And I was like, oh, I got to really feel it.

And then I was, like, I was, like, doing, like, this, like, weird, like, breathing thing that I heard on a YouTube video to help me get into it. And then I realized I almost missed my cue. and so I just run out really quickly because I hadn't been focused and then I didn't sing my lines I didn't sing them so for a whole verse I just did all the choreo

which is just me singing outwardly to the audience yelling at them and so much exposition by the way this is like the worst time to do it because I hop out and basically just tell you about the current events of the time in 1830s France and I wasn't telling them that and so

where you just did your mind blank? Like, why didn't you? I didn't even move my mouth. Oh, man. So hold on. So you were doing the choreography. The fact that you were still doing the choreography is amazing. And I'm assuming that the choreography has a lot of like hand motions, which is like to say,

and this, sir. And you, sir. And this is just doing that, but silently? Oh, that's too good. And I was, I was, this is the first time that like the dilemma rose in. me to be like, am I going to admit this or am I going to lie? Am I going to spin this weird story to the cast and not embarrass myself? Because it opens up and nobody's on stage and it was like, hey man, your mic cut.

Oh. And I was like, for a split second, I was about to be like, yes, it did. I wanted to so bad. I wanted to be like, yes, it did. I was perfect. It was their fault. They did this. And I remember I was the first time.

I was like, no, it didn't. Wow. That was all me. Good for you. Good for you. Accountability, sir. That's amazing. I was pregnant with that later on.

Yeah. And I remember our conductor that night, at intermission, came down to the dressing room. Like, the kid's dressing room was, like, in a corner in the basement by wardrobe. As it should be on lay miss. Yes, of course.

It was, like, deep in the gutters of the Imperial Theater. Yeah, like, Dustin Roaches was great. And he comes down and knocks on the door, and he high fives me and gives me a hug. And it's like, that was the funniest thing I've ever seen in my life. And you killed it.

And to make that a positive experience out the gate, I was like, oh, that's what this can do. I don't have to be embarrassed because I was horribly embarrassed. Yeah. But it's just what happens. And from there, I was like, oh, it's exciting. As you said, it literally happens to everybody. I was curious, I mean, you actually, like, you so,

that story just is better than it not ever happening. It's so much better. It's like so much better. And I wasn't sure because, you know, with children, it's like, I'm also not familiar with Les Mis, so I don't know the level of the responsibility of the role, but it sounds like you had a lot on your shoulders. A little.

He was more, he was just, he had like 20 minutes maybe of like stage time of three-hour show. But any time he was on, I just screamed. Right. I was just yelling a ton. And I don't know. And like in the breakdown for the character, it was like, he's tough and scrappy. And so I was like, I'm going 2-Eleven for that. And so I would just like, and I don't know if it was great.

But, hey, I had fun. Gaten, we have a few classic questions we ask everyone, and it feels like you answered one of them, which is to share an embarrassing story. Unless you have another. Yeah, we got it in space. But another classic question we ask everyone is, let's go up from nine,

because I would feel too creepy asking you about nine. But around middle school, high school, and I know for you, this intermingles with stranger things, but kind of like first experiences around like your first big feelings, like first big crush, first big infatuation, first big heartbreak, you're willing to share with us? That's great.

I have, like, fun memories around that because my, I've been with my girlfriend since our, since we were 15 and we're both 23 now. So, so many of those, like, fun, like, cool, like, first, like, real girlfriend things of, like, those first dates and, like, first kisses and all that. It's, like, cool that, like, you can still reflect on somebody you're still so close with. and share those things. It's so fun. And even though there's so much embarrassment and cringiness around the, like, having, like,

your first romantic partners when you're, like, because everyone, like, you know, has their crushes and their girlfriends from, like, 14, 15. And then everybody usually thinks back and they're like, oh, I was, that was so, I was so cringy. Just constantly, it was so weird. And the fact that we can both look at each other now and be like, okay, this is, we kind of, it's so good to be. and, like, to have those conversations and be like, wasn't that weird and gross?

Yeah. That's actually amazing. With somebody who's like, yes, it was. Yeah. It's still, like, a love around it. And we say that to each other now. We're like, if, like, if there's nobody in your life that you can have these experiences with, like, thank God, we still have that with each other. And there's, like, a respect and a maturity that's grown around, like, oh, man, we were very, very young.

And the fact that we are still together now and have grown so much, like, as people, through that is a pretty cool experience, pretty rare. And now I think I can look back on, yeah, just being 15 and be like, okay, cool. At least it worked out. Yeah, dude, that's amazing. That is amazing. I grew up alongside so many people at that age in Hollywood and didn't work out that way. What are they like?

I don't know them. Hollywood kids? them. Yeah, you're so not a Hollywood kid. I was in Jersey, my whole child would show my films. So I was like, I never got, and I know, like, I now know, like, newly adult Hollywood kids. I didn't know them when they were 15, but I know them now at 23. I'm like, you must have been insane as a 15-year-old.

You know what it is intuitively because you have been inside of the, like, show business apparatus very much, which actually we really want to ask you about more. Cool. So the only difference, I think, would be with Hollywood is like probably what you haven't seen so much. You've seen it a bit, but what you haven't seen as much is like when you move there, you are surrounded by so many like you.

Right. And just because the numbers are higher, what you see is the pattern of, you know, the prevalent one is frustration and failure you know and i think to see so many kids going through that that is undeniably dispiriting just just objectively you know what i mean it's like and so i think what's really cool about you and what i've seen more from kids who do it on the east coast typically actually it is people from long island in new jersey frankly and then maybe living in manhattan like timothy salome

oh timmy oh timmy and you know you and you know you uh shout out to timmy shout out to do you love to shout out too you shout out to put it right maybe timmy would come on this show but like what you just don't get on the east coast as much and what I've loved in being able to live out here since I turned 20 and by the way I'm almost 40 is just there's like

there's just way more of a diversity of perspectives and experiences because people haven't moved to Hollywood you know that's just not what it is The L.A. move, like, that's a very interesting concept to me, because it's a very common process that people who start to work professionally at a young age tend to do. And I think that's more out of the, not expectation, I think it's more out of the assumed, I'm trying to think of the right word for it. It seems more like, oh, I guess it's just what you're supposed to do, right? And I don't know. I think there's so many paths

for working professionally and dipping your toes and enjoying it and developing a love even outside. I always suggest when kids want to start acting and kids come up to me

and ask me questions when they maybe like theater kids here in the city if they recognize me on the street will be like, I want to do this too. How do I do it? And I'm like, start with community theater

and see if you like it first. Because I know a lot of people who didn't eventually and they're like, oh, I'm locked into this thing and I'm 17 and I didn't have another plan and now they think that they're locked in consistently. And it feels like that's like so much of what the LA move looked like

if people be like, well, I'm here now. Yeah, I need to make it. I need to make it right now. I have to or else, yeah, there's that perceived, like there's that failure aspect. But there's so many micro little failures and rejections throughout the process of making this consistent.

And there will always be. And that's just a matter of getting used to that. You always think it's like, okay, if I get that one big, thing that will facilitate a lot more work afterwards. And a lot of times that is the case, but it's still hordes of like, yeah, it's not right. I'm like, dang, I don't want to keep hearing that. I thought I started hearing that at some point. And you never do. And it's just a part of it. Yeah, that's true. You have a real healthy perspective. Thank you. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right

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Now available in Canada, too. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash podcrush to get free shipping and 365 day returns. Quince.com slash podcrushed. So tell us. about your the audition no seriously i actually don't know it and i would love to hear it from you especially knowing how seasoned you were going into it and i do want to preface this with and this isn't like you know it shouldn't be this like compare and contrast thing all the different all the young actors on on stranger things have been um like praise in their own way you're all so

different and you all have such a different vibe and i will say that you know the the incredible charm and bravado of Dustin, I'm now realizing comes partly from the fact that you, you know, you'd already like forgotten your entire monologue and danced a silent choreography. Like, you know what I mean? Like, you really had been doing this. You were a seasoned to pro.

So tell me about the audition process for Stranger Things. It was, weirdly enough, a pretty standard one out. the gate. It was it looked in. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't, I never really went in for a whole bunch of TV. I had ever, there were, there was the consistent like, like, New York local hire like, like,

S-DU auditions. And at 11, those are heavy to read. You're like, oh, yeah, it's all like abuse. Yeah, you just have to cry, you just have to do nothing but cry. Yeah, like, scream, cries, they know, where's my mom? Yeah, all that fun stuff. It's like, dang, I read so many of those.

I'm like, why can't do this? Like, this is horrifying. I never even booked. I was like, God, all right. So it was pretty cool, but I think what was interesting is that I think the idea around the audition process, because I think a really cool story is like finding a lot of like discoveries and new people that are fresh-faced and just getting into it and not like tarnished by the industry. And let's just like get these like new.

people who are just trying to do this and I think that was maybe like initially the plan but as it narrowed down and we looked around it really was just a group of people who have been doing it for quite some time up to that point the whole room of people that had

gone to the process of the callbacks final callbacks into the mix of it all when it came down like the final 10 kids that were there they were all had been consistently working for a long time And I think that that was, I don't think that's always necessary. But I think for a show like Stranger Things

where so much responsibility is put on the shoulders of the kids in it because their goal was to have a show led by kids that isn't necessarily geared towards them. And that's hard to do. It seemed hard to advertise. And I remember that was also a struggle for them when pitching the show. where they're like, are you sure? Can they have like a bit of a bad,

like a supporting boost here? So it's rated R, but it's starring 10-year-olds. I'm not sure. That was a struggle, I think, for a while. And it wasn't necessarily about, I don't think it was necessarily about finding the, it's like if you necessarily had the best read, you're guaranteed to get in there.

I think a lot of it had to do with, all right, are we going to be able to, put these kids in a room for seven months without seeing anybody else and get something consistent and professional out of them, along with, are we going to enjoy what's on screen? Because that's hard to figure out. And that's like a balance that comes to casting kids in projects. Even in auditions for theater and TV, there's something that happens in the room that never happens in auditions with adults at all. So much, just like a round table or like a a big they all come into the room together there's like 30 kids in a lot of the times

we'll be like all of you come on in and we'll do like an icebreaker and we'll sit in a circle tell us your name tell us something about yourself what's your favorite food what's your favorite color where you from and seeing how these kids interact with each other because a lot of times they're very talented kids who are like and they don't want to have fun and they don't want to engage and they aren't they're there for through no fault of their own list is if you're that young you don't have the ability to really understand the nuances of what's really going on. But a lot of times you're also casting their parents because they're going to be there too. And you got to see how they are on set.

And you got to say how they are with each other and to their kid and see if they're in it for the right reasons. And I think that that played a big factor in why we all got as far as we did. Because we had all been working consistently. And you had great parents. We have good parents. I don't know what's just funny to say because it's something that isn't guaranteed. When you, did you read this script?

I would imagine it was probably like a confidential. Did they share the script with you right away? Or did you just read the sides? Did you have any idea what it was about? We had, so it was a bit of dummy sides. It was pretty early on in the process. I don't think they had finished writing it while we were filming. I think they like greenlit the project based on the pitch deck,

which is kind of crazy. Yeah. So we got dummy sides, which they told us. very early on, like, this isn't going to stick, but this is what we have right now. And then they sent a lookbook. That was like 30 pages.

They sent you the lookbook. Yeah, they sent like once we got further along. Once it was in the callback and we were on the phone, on like Zoom with or Skype at the time, we were on Skype with the directors with Matt and Ross, the creators of the show who were probably

around like 28 at the time. Wow. It's just nuts, you know, they're now in early 40s. And, yeah, Matt's a dad. And it's like, yeah, it's like seeing them grow over this. So old, God, yeah. Have children? Whoa.

Whoa. Whoa. Multiple children even? No, that's crazy. How attached did you fit? Because, you know, when auditioning for as often as you did, which I also know what it was like at that age, it's like, you know, some things are cool, some things are not, some things are interesting. things that you know there's just like it can kind of land anywhere on the spectrum how did you feel about it knowing that you've of course invested in it and gone through all the highs and the lows

and you know just just you can be honest of course like it just how what was your what was your read on the vibe i was excited about it it seemed really cool but most of it was dominated by the voices around me of being like this is significantly cooler than the things that you have done i'm like all right easy you haven't seen lay miss like you all right guys let's listen for it for a second. And it was weird because I'd never done consistent TV. I did like one episode here and there, and this was the first time that it had been presented

to do a full season of TV. And that was scary initially, but exciting. And I just remember thinking they were really cool and thinking the sides were fun. But it didn't stick out to me as anything particularly different from what I had been doing for the four or five years prior. Which was half your life at that point almost. Which was half my life at that point.

So that was, there was an ease to it and there was something relaxing about it and it didn't become really weird for me until we got the final call to go out to L.A. for the screen test or their version of what a screen test looked like. I'd never been to L.A. before. It was like this mythical land that I'd only been, I'd only heard of the name. And I went out there and it was pouring right. Oh man One of the three days of the year That it rained And I just yeah

Weirdly enough The next four times I would go It would be raining And I thought I had a curse But that's when it started to sink It is a particularly Different Experience from what I had known

And that was really exciting Gaten I want to ask you obviously Dustin and Steve A lot of people feel like They're the heart of the show I even watched a recent thing with the cast where you guys were voted

like the best duo on the show and there are a lot of dynamic duos on the show. So I'm curious how quickly did that chemistry start to form between you? I have three questions about it. I'm just going to ask them on. How quickly did that chemistry start to form between you? Why do you think Steve and Dustin? Like, what is the magic

there? And do you have a favorite scene that you'll sort of look back on and like that's your favorite Stephen Dustin moment? I love this question. I don't know why. I think why they did it initially, I think, I don't know, I remember them saying we had hit like, they had hit like a weird roadblock of not really knowing, they knew where they had to go, they didn't quite

know how to get there yet. And there were a few characters that were entering a potential limbo phase of kind of just floating around plot-wise and really having nothing to do. And that was like scary for them. And Dustin and Steve were two of those characters in the second season. We were already filming the episode before they meet up before they had written the next one. Like they were like, we didn't know what to do. And I think it came from them be like, Dustin needs a ride. And Steve has a car. And all Steve is doing is trying to get Nancy back. And that's not quite as fun. And all Dustin is doing is trying to beat Lucas to a girlie is a crush on that is obviously not going his way. And that is,

also not fun but weirdly similar for both of them and so they kind of like I guess that's a way that they could converse on their journey to the junkyard and it just kind of clicked there

and that's my favorite scene is the one of us on the train tracks when we're creating like a meat trail like a like a bucket of beef trail it's so gross but it was that's right it was too

that was some meat it's thanked Gaten Penn has talked about like in a moment in you that actually grossed him out dealing with some stuff. Have you ever had moments on stranger things that actually grossed you out?

Sure. There's a lot of goop. There's a lot of just, oh, you know what's actually weird? All the, like, dirt and sweat and blood and, like, slime from all the upside-down stuff, that's less gross than the sweat makeup

because they started to use... There was, like, an era that they were in that was, like, super understandable, but it was very much like this looks really good despite it feeling horrible so we're going to go with it and you just described everything in the film and television industry

this is going to be great and this sucks for you but they would just put clear lip gloss all over our bodies because we didn't have to keep on spritzing us for water but the thing is it got bad because any time I turn my head and turn like my skin would like peel off of my neck

and there was like that looks weird why is that why are you doing that I'm like, I can't help it. Because you've covered me in glossier. You've covered me on lip gloss. And then I started breaking out and they're like, why are you breaking out? Are you washing your face? And like, yeah, but you're putting lip gloss all over my face.

Oh, my gosh. Wow. It was so icky. So that was what grossed me out for the most part. It was, uh, yeah. For me, for me it was, um, uh, raw meat on a buzz saw. But yeah, we, you know, if glossed raw meat and a buzz saw, it's like a tomato. Raw meat on a buzzer.

Famously the two grossest things. I looked up your name on Spotify, and the first thing to come up was the never-ending story. The song that you sing in season three, which is such an epic moment. Yes, of course. And, of course, you have been singing for many, many years. And I was curious how that came about. Did you advocate for that? They just kept saying, we're going to get you to sing in the show.

I was like, that would ruin the show. Don't do it. Please don't do that. And then I just like, yeah, bullshit. Like, then I've got to even go for it. And then we read it. And I didn't really know it was happening until we read it at the table read. And it's like, no.

Way. And I think it would have only worked in season three because that's the only season where they just, I think were fully on board with the idea of going aesthetically, fully off the rails. Was this three to one with where Maya came on the first time? Yeah. And then it was like Russia.

Neon lights. Yeah. That one has a lot of high chicks. Yes. Very fun. The Scooby-Doo arc. There's like a secret death star underneath the mall. That was actually when the Scooby-Doo vibe, like contrasting the body gore vibe was at its highest.

And I was like, wow, stranger things. Lots of body gore. Lots of Scooby-Doo. Lots of bright lights, which was very different from what we had done. And they were like, if we're going to pull this off, it's got to be now. It's here, you can't sing. If we're going to pull the tab, that's the glue.

Yeah, I think they knew. It's like if it was ever going to work, it had to be in the sweet spot of where they put it. And people seemed to latch. It was so cute. It's so cute. Oh, it's so good. Well, thanks, guys.

Yeah, no, I mean, Dustin and Steve really are one of the hearts. I mean, I guess the show does have a few hearts. It's like it's a big, gory beast, but they're one of the hearts. It's pretty fun. I like doing this show with him. greatly. Joe's a really, really talented guy and just an absolute pro. I've always love that guy. And we've also, it was such a fun experience getting

to grow up, because initially it's like he was like cool older brother who was just like, oh God, Joe's your guy, Joe's he's so funny, he's so cool. And. Yeah, because you guys were initially actually 12 and he was what, maybe 20? He was my age, 23. Wow, wow. Yeah, so he was 23 at the time and like we were 12 and any time Joe was once they were like, yes, because he was so, he just was really so funny. And we would just not leave him alone.

Oh, that's so huge. That's like actually what it was. It was. He was so good with us as kids. He was so funny. That's amazing. It was like the most exciting day when he was on set. And I just remember, like, he would make us laugh so hard

that our parents were like, all right, all right, just be alone. Like, yeah, I know. excited and then getting to grow up and then be in my 20s as he entered his 30s and now we now like he is a true friend of mine which is yeah so it's really really cool and something i bring up to him that he's like it's he's like i don't like it's he's like i don't like it's got to be surreal like seeing you guys grow up from that it is yeah like in the end of season five like i was already 22 at that point and so like we would have drinks and then you'd be like this is not this is so bizarre because it's like, he's like, really, you guys were so tiny.

Yeah. And just, yeah, just straight up just little kids. Just taking drinks out of your hand. Like, I'm sorry, I can't not around me. Looking at it. I can endorse it. We are going to ask you a few questions outside of Stranger Things, but we have a couple more. It's the final season.

Yes, indeed. So we want to know two things. We want to know how you're feeling about saying goodbye to Dustin. But we also want to know, while keeping it spoiler-free, how you feel about the finale how it all wraps up I love the so I love the guy I like the guy that I play

he's fun this year's been more challenging because I there's like a lot of there's a bit of a shift in what he's seen and what he's experienced leading up to it which is pretty fun to tackle I know that Matt and Ross the writers wanted to

dive in a little bit more to seeing a bit of a different part just seeing somebody unhealthily dealing with the grieving process which I don't really know if there is a very healthy way to do that but yeah season four spoilers

he's watching cover years but he loses a friend that he's with as it happens and it's very different from anything he's experienced like he's been around it they've lost people it's like it's always been very scary but he loses one of his closest people

and having it happen in front of him is quite the shit And it kind of, I think, is, for the most part, pretty sobering. And it's a pretty different shift. It's not very, like, heroic, like, war movie type. You know what I mean? It doesn't feel it's like, it's not like, ah, let's do this. There's nothing really badass about it initially. It's actually just weirdly, tremendously, very quite sad.

And so it's jumping into that is fun to see how that picks up, because that's kind of where we start everything. And that's cool to experience. And then when it comes to the season as a whole, it's just. we do just really hit the ground running. I'm stoked with how we wrap it up. After reading it, it feels correct, is the best way of saying it. Like reading everything and seeing everything settle in and finishing.

Like, our last table or the last episode, we had been like anticipating it for quite some time. It was on your birthday, wasn't it? It was on my birthday. Yes, it was. That was pretty fun. Millian Noah made a cake either that morning or the night prior that started to deteriorate on the way over. And it was very Harry Potter reminiscent of the, and it was actually very, very sweet, a good memory for sure. Stick around. We'll be right back.

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rotting in the landfill, it could be enriching our soil or feeding our chickens because it's still food. And the easiest and frankly, way coolest way to put all its nutrients to work is with the mill food recycler. It looks like an art house garbage can. You can just toss your scraps in it like a garbage can, but it is definitely not a garbage can. I mean, it's true. I'm pretty obsessed with this thing. I even invested in this thing. But I'm not alone. Any mill owner just might corner you at a party and rhapsodize about how it's completely odorless and it's fully automated and how you can keep filling it for weeks. But the clincher is that you can depend on it for years. Mill is a serious machine. Think about a dishwasher, not a toaster. It's built by hand

in North America and it's engineered by the guy who did your iPhone. But you have to kind of live with Mill to understand all the love. That's why they offer a risk-free trial. Go to mill.com slash wiser for an exclusive offer. Hello, I'm James Corden, and on my new show, This Life of Mine, I sit down each week with some of the most fascinating people on planet Earth. From Dr. Dre to Julianne Moore, to David Beckham, to Cynthia O'Revo, to Martin Scorsese, to Jeremy Renner, to Denzel, Washington, to Kim Kardashian. We talk about the people, places, possessions, music, and memories that made them who they are. These are intimate conversations full of stories that you've never heard before. This

life of mine premieres October 21st, wherever you get your podcasts. Stranger Things has spanned over 10 years of your life at this point. And each season takes quite a while to film. I think the last two seasons took around a year to film. And so I'm curious, As it wraps up, what are you excited to now have time for? Like, it could be work, but also outside of work. That's a good question. I'm in, like, a weird phase of trying to figure that out because I've been lucky enough to make a living out of my favorite hobby.

And that's when there's, like, an in-between phase of letting that settle. And it's also things have come up that just schedule-wise don't work out because we're about to start this press tour. Yeah. And things had fallen through because of just the weird little nuances throughout the year, even after we finished filming. And so I know that post-holidays is going to be the first time in which the coming year or years after looks actually free. And it's like, or at least looks up to me. And that's exciting.

That is particularly very scary. You've also never been there, if I can just say. You've never, you know, as a person who I know what it's like to be on something. like that, not like that, but you know. And you'd never know until, and I'm an adult, I'm a full, I've done this twice as an adult. You have only just entered adulthood really as mature and as experienced as you are. So it's like you're going to have a perspective, even in six months that you just can't even have yet. I'm excited to figure that.

How did, does that feel differently the second time around because you, because you have done it twice? Was the first time particularly more anxiety riddled than? the second you mean like ending it yeah ending like a long process no i was i've famously said it and i'm saying it now not with any judgment or cynicism but the fact is i really want it off of that show for a gossip girl you know or rather i shouldn't say i want it off i actually didn't want off prematurely i just simply was like okay i i would really love for this to come to a close and you know signed off as spoiler alert gossip girl and and and then that was that was that i was thrilled to have have the perceived freedom and right um but it was also you know i was in my late 20s and late

20s are kind of famously for for a lot of people like a time of reckoning so it was kind of like it really coincided with that i will say that ending ending my show you was a bit different because it was um it really is the it's the end of them even a much longer cycle because you know i've working on like a Warner Bros. Television show since I was 15 years old. And so, I don't know. The point is I at nearly 40 am having to admit where I'm like,

yeah, I really, I've never been here either. I don't know. I don't even feel like I have enough perspective yet. But whatever similarity there may or may not be, I think there's a lot. Yeah, what you are about to enter because you were just starting press, right? Is that right?

Today is day two. Okay, and when does it come out, this show? We released the first chunk. on the 26th of November. Wow. Okay, so I would bet that, you know, the last press interview that you do, you know, and then the show comes out

and, like, a few weeks after the show, everything has died down, people kind of stop talking about it as much. Yeah. You're going to be like, oh, it's never coming back. Like, it's never coming. And, although actually with the show like yours.

Maybe they'll be movies. Maybe it will be like, no, no, no. No, no, no, no. Cut to the 2026 fourth financial quarter. Netflix is like, can we have a movie. Someone called a death of brothers. Yeah. I wouldn't be shocked.

But anyway, anyway, you're about to enter a new phase. Yeah, and that's a weird phase. I have to really try to look at it with optimism. It very much feels very similarly. You absolutely should look at it with optimism, by the way. I would love to. Yeah, you have more time for activities. You're literally so young.

It's hard to remember that sometimes, though. I know, I know, I know. Because it's, I think anybody at 23 doesn't realize how young that really is. But also, there's been a number of, it's like, it started so early for me that it's, it almost feels like there's been a jump start to all these weird life experiences up to this point that, I think in some respects, like, based on what I've experienced, I'm out of phase that most, like, 33-year-olds are rather than 23-year-olds and balancing that with also being 23 is like kind of bizarre

and definitely full of anxiety for sure. It feels very similar to when I finished up my show in New York when I was 12. Right, right before you did strange a thing. At least for that tiny little month of me thinking I wasn't going to be working. I was very okay at the time with coming to terms to the fact that I may never do it again

because I knew that my voice was changing. The growth spurt was coming. That didn't take as much of an effect of it would have liked. But I was like, this is fine having been the thing I did as a kid. Yeah. And that'll be cool eventually. I did. I literally, when I was 12, I was like, okay, cool.

Now I could be a teenager. Now that I'm old, I'm going to just hang it up. I was fine with retiring at 12. At least like that chapter, I was fine with being, I knew that I wanted to do it, but I was fine revisiting in my adult. I was like, maybe I should just be a teenager, worry about school, worry about college, know that I love it, know that it will be there, and just jump into it when it feels right to do so, and then it just spiraled into a thing that nobody could have expected. And so there's always that of me thinking, oh, great, I've got so much time ahead of me, and I've got every bit of decision making I could want when it comes to the next year starting. and then who knows if it just packed up really quickly

with something that I wouldn't have expected. I have to be open to that as well. And maybe hoping for that. That makes me think that, you know, you did, you entered this at 12. You're exiting it nearly 12 years later. Not only is our show about coming of age, but a show that is almost as successful,

stranger things, is also about coming of age. Yes, of course. And I mean, when people think of coming of age stories, they think, stranger things pod crushed you know that's why

I think typically yeah that is usually like I mean I don't know we could maybe do a census on this

but anyway but we won't we won't we'll just take that yeah no no no because we know that it's accurate

I wonder like I kind of have a two-parter question what do you think could have would have been your not your

not your past or the way life would have gone because that's impossible to know. But like, what else might you have done? If, like, is there even, because it sounds like you were into this so, so early and really loved it, and you've now done it for so, so, so long most of your life.

Like, is there, is there this any amount, like, can you even imagine having come of age not doing this gargantuan global phenomenon? I think about that a lot, actually. I think about that more than I should because... I don't know how you wouldn't think about it a lot, just to give yourself great. Because I won't... There's no way for me to know that.

There's no way for me to really know what I would have done, how I would have approached the rest of my adolescence, the beginning of my adulthood. I wholeheartedly believe and like to think, maybe for toxic reasons, maybe because I'm very well aware of the fact that I'm consistently, perceived on a larger scale

than most are just because of the engagement with the show and more people know of me than actually I'm sorry to explain I just it's I think because I understand

that a lot of eyes could potentially be on me I'm super sometimes like Barbie about my persona when I'm walking around all the time and I'm like super concerned with being extra nice

and being aware, and I'm like, I really don't want people to think I'm not a nice person. And I think that that would remain the same, but maybe if I didn't do this, I'm hard to believe that I would probably be not as nice of a person if I didn't do this. And maybe the result of that is good, but also maybe the reasoning behind it is like, hey, ease up. That's fine. It's okay if some people don't necessarily like you.

It's okay if people don't like what you do because that is absolutely normal and fine for then that doesn't necessarily concern me because it's like if you don't like me then I'm fine I don't have to talk to you it's not fun to be told pretty consistently but I yeah I think that that changed how I interact with people on a day to day and I don't know if I would yeah be as hyper aware of that otherwise so that's I think a good thing that's come out of it I don't even know I think if I did do this as a real world where I just didn't go back I was like that was fun back when I was 12 and I just approached something completely different

and I'm okay with not knowing whether or not I would have done that because I really like where I'm at right now. Well, we should probably get to the final. Actually, there's one thing that I think is a nice segue. So is it true that you taught an acting and singing class at Butler? Even if it was just like a one-off thing? Yeah. In Indiana?

Yeah, I guess. I don't know where Butler is. Wait, is that what that place was? Because I taught an actor and I didn't go to school. I don't know. One time. In Indianapolis. The only time I've ever taught anything was with a buddy of mine I did Twini Todd with at a, at like a kid's, like, acting like development school in Indiana.

What was that like? It was fun. It was cool. It was really low stakes. And I just wanted to like, the biggest message there was just like, let's go and just, I was more just like sharing like experiences of what. Because a lot of them, and I didn't know this going in a lot of them had also worked consistently. I was like, oh, cool, this is great. How old were they?

Probably, like, hovering around, like, 11 to 14. Okay. And they all had, like, a song prepped, and to show us, like, the whole point of the thing was to do a big group warm up and do the ice breakers and do all of that and then show the song that they had. And then in real time, me and my friend Nathan, who I did the class with, who invited me out there, basically just gave real-time tips about, like, what could be a fun exercise that they could do by themselves to help them kind of reach a goal that I think we both could see them trying to reach and send them as a like here's, like articulating what is that they wanted to do, what could be effective in an audition, and how they could buy themselves prep for that to do so effectively or at least feel good.

Because a lot of times, even if you don't book something or even if you don't get called back for something, feeling like you did everything that you could do is a really fun feeling to have. Because I've done that before where something doesn't go through at all. And I'm like, I don't even care because I feel really good about what I did. I don't think I could do it better. And so, yeah, kind of building that up. That was fun. That's cool that you mentioned that. Yeah, I was just thinking that, like, you know, by the way, how long ago was that?

Like a few years? So you were like 20 or so? Yeah. I just thought that that might have been a little sweet experience for you to look back at kids who were, you know, the age you were when you, well, again, not started. But when you were like really thrust into the... Yeah. It was cool. I liked it a lot.

I've been hesitant to teach in any way because I don't really feel necessarily anytime I enter like a new space of like something like whether it's teaching or whether it's even branching outside of acting, I want to feel like my place there is earned. I don't want to just be like, oh, I did this one thing, one thing,

so let me just like stroll on in and see how it goes because a lot of people put so much time and energy into getting very good at doing that way better than I could. And the reason I felt comfy jumping into that is because it was kids who had worked and I could very much relate to what they've experienced, what they're doing,

and what I found to be effective when auditioning at that age. Because it's very different from auditioning as an adult. And that was really fun. And we just like, yeah, a lot of story time talking about what the experience in Sweeney was like and doing some warm-ups we had learned

throughout the rehearsal process. And yeah, that was a good time. That was cool. That's awesome. Well, sort of, that's a bit of a segue into our classic question, which is if you could go back to your 12-year-old self, what would you say or do, if anything? That's a really good question.

I think I will be better at answering it when I kind of go through that fun, like, breather process after this year. Why is this the answer we've ever gotten? I just don't want to be too high. Because I still feel like I'm still that same guy. I don't think I have much advice yet. I think I will have advice. But I think if I went back now, it would have nothing to do with the career path that he would have been on.

I would have been on. I don't know. I would even refer to that. I would tell him to think about therapy sooner. Yeah, fair. That's a good one. You're like, hey, do it now. It's just great.

No harm. You don't have to wait. until you feel like you need it to start it. Yeah, that's good advice. So nice to meet you and best of luck with your press store. I appreciate it. Yeah, man, you have a huge press store ahead of you. It's going to be good.

Maybe, or is it, do you know that it's geared up to be huge? It's rather large. I think wicked ruins it for everyone. I feel bad for those who are already kind of not looking forward to the algorithm forcing us down their throats. But have fun because they're going to do it. You get ready to see our faces consistently to the point where you probably don't want to anymore.

I'm sorry. I'm sorry about that in advance. This is all the jury. No, we'll love it. You can watch the first episode of Stranger Things Season 5 on Netflix today, and you can keep up with Gaten Matarazzo online at Gaten Mataraso. Pod Crushed is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navacavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency.

If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time, because guess what? You can listen completely ad-free. Plus, you'll unlock exclusive bonus content. Like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film Into the Wild had on him, the conversation was so moving and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to Lemonada Premium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's Lemonada Premium.com. Don't miss out.

And as always, you can listen to Pod Crush ad-free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay. That's all. Bye. You know, when you're just going about your busy day, and a voice asks you something like, Why do people have crushes? Or, do dogs know their dogs? The Brains-on podcast is here to help.

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