Podcrushed - Host AMA: Love

Episode Date: July 31, 2024

Our second themed-AMA of the season is all about LOVE. The hosts tackle your questions on how to get over heartbreak, recognize “the one”, reconcile religious differences, and keep things playful. They weave their non-expert (repeat: totally subjective, possibly unhelpful!) opinions with personal stories that will make you laugh, and (if you’re a Nava or a Sophie) possibly tear up.   Follow Podcrushed on socials: TikTok Instagram XSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada Welcome to Pod Crushed My co-hosts are gone I have them no longer I just realized you know what I didn't need them moreover They don't need me They don't need me

Actually we really do need you First one of those two things is true In which in which way No I know No you know I did What did I? I interviewed somebody recently. Oh, yeah. So I erud. I interviewed a very talented artist named Arooge, a friend of mine, really a friend of Domino's who's become a friend of mine. Arooge Aftab. Really, really talented Pakistani singer. Well, she's, I guess Pakistani American. And she's categorized in world music. But we did like, we kind of interviewed each other a little bit, but it was for promotion for her record. And you were thinking, I miss Nava and Sophie so much. They would have added so much. much to this. I wish that I had a biodoc, a beach sheet. No, I was thinking like, man, I need a prep doc. I need a prep doc so bad. My, my schedule and drive-in was just so crammed. But it was

really a nice time. Anywho's, welcome to pot-crush. I'm Penn Badgley. These are my co-hosts. Navacavlin and Sophie. Sorry. Hello, hello. Welcome. We have a host episode today. Are we even calling these AMAs anymore? Probably not. I don't know. It kind of is an AMA, but it's themed. Yeah. I have to tell you guys, last time we recorded this, I asked anyone who really enjoys these episodes and wants more of them to comment on our YouTube and tell us because I'm always trying

to get more host episodes and you guys are always cramping my style. And there were so many comments. We love these. Please bring them back. We want more. So here we are. Are you sure that was the tone and inflection? Yeah, just the flat.

Yeah, what if it was like, we love these? Bring them back. Please, Mark. We love this. Well, today we're going to kick off our host episodes with the theme of love. So we ask you guys to send us some questions, and we're going to work our way through some of them. Unfortunately, we won't be able to get to all of them, but as always, we're thankful for you guys sharing. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored?

and do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair,

mash, lamb pilaf, and turkey and chicken cookout. I mean, are you kidding me? I want to eat these recipes. Each recipe is cooked gently in small batches to seal in vital nutrients and maximize digestibility. And their recipes are crafted by vet nutritionists. So I feel good knowing it's design with Louie's health and happiness in mind. Serve nom nom as a complete and balanced meal or is a tasty and healthy addition to your dog's current diet. My dogs are like my children. literally, which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best. Hold on. Let me start again because I've only been talking about Louis. Louis is my bait. Louis, you might have heard him growl just now. Louis is my little baby and I'm committed to only giving him the best. I love that nom nom

recipes contain wholesome nutrient rich food, meat that looks like meat and veggies that look like veggies because shocker they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lampy laugh guy. Keep mealtime exciting with NomNum available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed, spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. A 15-year-old girl who chewed through a rope to escape a serial killer. I used my front teeth to saw on the rope in my mouth. He's been convicted of murdering two young women, but suspected of many more. Maybe there's another one in that area.

And now, new leads that could solve these cold cases. They could be a victim. We have no idea he killed. Stolen voices of Dole Valley breaks the silence on August 19th. Follow us now so you don't miss an episode. I wanted to start with a very fun one. And should be quick and easy.

Penn, did you hear that? That's just setting him up for failure. You know what? I'm going to try. I'm going to try. I'm going to try. Okay. I'm going to try. First question. Favorite romance movie? Titanic, easy. Next. Let's move on.

Why Titanic? You know? Quick and easy. It's done. No, I need time to think about it, actually. Okay. No, I have an answer. I have an answer. Romeo plus Juliet. That one was just like really impactful when I saw it.

Which one is that one? That's Leonardo DiCaprio and Claire Daines. Are you the only per? Is it really Romeo plus Juliet? Yeah, it's Romeo plus Juliet. That's the Baz Luhrmann version. You've heard somebody else say that. I mean, people might say Romeo and Juliet,

but that's how I was distinguishing which one because he framed it as Romeo plus Juliet. Okay. Okay. Please keep it in the DiCaprio. In milieu, si you play. No, I'm going to go. Dermit Mulroney.

Is that, is that the person who's in this movie? Or is it Dylan McDermott? My best friend's wedding. Dermit Marroney. Do you love him too? We should get them both on the podcast. That's what we should. That's a great movie.

I love that movie and I watched it countless times throughout my childhood. Such a good one. That's really good. Okay, this is not quite as quick, but I thought it was a sweet one. Can you experience true love in high school or middle school? I know Penn is going to say, what is true love? So let's start with what is true love. All wrong.

All wrong. Do you want to hear about Titanic or not? No, okay. Let's do middle school. Yeah. Can you change true love in high school or middle school? That's a great question. Sure.

Yeah. It depends on your maturity, I guess. But sure. Why not? Maybe the true is love. Maybe before your mind is like completely distorted on what it all means and there's a lot of fear. Maybe it's more pure. Should you commit to the person?

you truly love in middle school or high school forever? I mean, maybe. I don't see why not. Is this advice you would give your 14-year-old? Just out of curiosity? 15 now, 15-year-old. No, definitely not. No.

Well, I mean, to me, it's kind of like you said pure. The connotations of the word pure in our culture, I think, are ironically impure. So, you know, true purity is that which has been tested, that which has been staying. that which has been through, you know, as much as conceivable, I suppose. And then not necessarily that it's lost and regained, but that it's always being tested, you know. And so to me, true love is somehow even relative. Uh-oh. Because I think it could be true then, but then it's like what makes it true, what makes it true?

Yeah. Is it time? I would think at that age it's maybe just time because it is probably pretty pure. it's a tough one or i don't know maybe you just want to have sex and you it's not pure at all it's true i mean you can go either way um no i think that's true i think the question like what is true love is it not so simple or maybe it's super simple and it's just hard to access what it is these days but i think that love is like the power of attraction between people is is essentially like an expression of love sometimes it changes like you might feel a romantic power of attraction

towards someone. And then over time you realize that it doesn't make sense. You're not compatible. Your feelings change. But it doesn't mean that you have to lose the love. The love can sort of change shape into friendship. Maybe that's a lot of what we experience in middle school and high school. Like at one point it was something that felt romantic and then it can morph into something else. But I think you don't have to write people off if you break up, basically. Like we don't have to throw each other away if things don't work out. There can still be love between two people and it sort of changes shape into friendship. Yeah. So I don't think true love means that you have to commit to that person for your whole life.

I think that's the point that I'm making. Yeah, I agree. Penn, you're going to choose one? Should we go back to Titanic, though? I mean, doesn't everybody, okay, let's be honest. Everyone who listens to this show wants to hear us talk about Titanic. Let's go. Let's get into Titanic.

I want to hear your answer. I feel like we've probably spoken about Titanic before. I think maybe one. Because I've said this before. Not in depth. Yeah, tell us why you love it. Um, there is something about the way that,

that it represents love that I think is, you know, we talk about true love and it's not the sort of love that I think many people get to feel and then have a sustainable relationship from. And neither do they, by the way. Like at all. Aren't they together for like 17 hours? Spoiler. Spoiler. Can you imagine? But I'm just kind of like you to seem somewhat disinterested. kind of like dispassionate, sort of detached, like above Titanic. I mean, I love Titanic, too. It's just, you know, like, could you have given a more basic answer? So now we want.

Says my best friend's wedding. You've never even seen it. That's not basic. We picked the three most basic answers. Yeah, probably. I think we probably did if you think about it. Probably. Probably.

Just, I just went up, she's like, speak for your fucking false, sir. Yeah, no, I loved Titanic. You know, it's complicated because I think we like to glamorize infidelity, but she could have. Oh, that's right. She does cheat. She is unfaithful. I mean, the guy was. But it's Billy Zane at his worst.

She's engaged to a not great man, but I am not pro infidelity. I will say that. But I do love the story. Hot takes from Nava. Like, Nava ruining everything. If you are currently cheating or you are participating in an unfaithful relationship, I hope you're not offended. No, I think be offended But I've never once thought about the fact that she's unfaithful really

I don't I mean isn't that interesting how many pieces of media There are where there is infidelity and you don't even It does not cross your mind Or you're actually being made to root for that couple Oh well I mean you want to talk about the movie unfaithful Yeah Was there ever a relationship I wanted to work more than that one

I don't know what movie that is I mean You don't know when faith Diane Lane, Richard Gere, hot Spanish actor. The hottest, like, you know, Richard Gere movie, which is saying a lot. I don't know it. Okay.

Do you know who Richard Gere is? So, like, I know the name. You know, there's like three people I always get confused. Richard Gere, Sean Connery. You get them confused. Harrison Ford. Harrison Ford. Harrison for, come on.

It makes more sense to me than Sean Connery, but, because John Connery's like 20 years older, I think, but have you seen pretty women? Yeah. probably well he's the male lead in that that's his most recognizable role but i don't think i've seen it wow that that's amazing i know there's a whole whole bunch of stuff i'm missing out on it anyway well you know i've not seen pretty woman either you haven't seen pretty woman no that's crazy is that the one that's like julia roberts is a working yes yes yes that's what i thought yeah sex worker i guess is what we would say they used to say hooker with a heart of gold which i think has a certain charm to

but yeah, you wouldn't say it anymore, I guess. Penn, what is a ritual that keeps your marriage happy and healthy? We just like to play. We keep play, really, present. No, we don't enough these days, and we've been realizing that's really necessary. That was something that we just had our anniversary recently. When you say play, besides, like, play in the bedroom,

which is between the couple, what else would you include? That's the only kind I understand. My eyes just went, whoa. So nonchal. Playing in the bedroom. Yeah, I'm not aware of any other. Just everything happens in the bedroom. It's all sexual.

Everything happens in the bedroom. No, I'm actually asking a serious question. Like, without getting into that, what other elements of play sort of can exist between a husband and wife? For people struggling to be playful in their marriage. Yeah, well, I mean, I sort of include us in that. Like, we both do it and there's, it's like, it's a challenge. You know, it's a challenge to maintain. Because we also, by the way, we have, we just were talking to this sleep consultant, you know,

when you're like trying to figure out how to make the life of a co-sleeping family more manageable. And we found out from this professional, at least from their educated opinion, that we have two of the most difficult ages simultaneously, three and 15, because developmentally what's going on is just like, you know, kind of bananas. And I can, I can testify to that. That's what it feels like sometimes, you know, like that dog who's burning in the kitchen. Yeah. And he's like, this is fine.

Yeah. And his eyes are just a little bit as to, that's sometimes. I'm like, no, this is fine, right? This is, but why, but why haven't we played in three years? Yeah. Now, so something we did recently was get, we literally got a, so basic, but I think it's just kind of a testament to how fun it can be. It's just we get cards, like playing cards. Literally playing cards.

Cards. Cards? I thought you'd like cards. Cards? I was like a little rolly ones on the place. Just dominole playing hot wheels. Yeah, we're playing with hot wheels. That's pretty charming. No, yeah, cards. Literally cards.

And you know what sparked the idea partly was, um, uh, Seth and, no, Seth and, uh, and Josh. They spoke about playing, I think it was rummy. Oh, yeah. Every night with their family? Like every night almost. Sophie's like, yeah? Yeah, what about it?

No, that's really sweet. I really like that. That's actually something that David and I have found when we go and visit his family, something that is without a doubt always going to be really enjoyable and like a positive experience for everyone is playing a game.

Oh, that's really nice. And this last trip, it was cards. And yeah, I was just thinking like, oh, so sweet. I love playing cards. Sophie, what do you and David do to keep the... What rituals do you have that? help your marriage say happy and healthy?

We go on walks a lot. And lately, since having a baby, we've gone on a lot less. And we've been, we've just been talking about it. We feel it. Like, it's just such a nice time for us to chat, to catch up, also get in some, like, physical exercise. And just like quality. You could get that in the bedroom. I don't know.

That's what players get there. Players. I haven't said that since I was probably 14. Play ya. The thing, the thing about having a baby is, and I had heard this before, but it's like a lot of divide and conquer. And so things that we used to do together just for fun, like, let's go grocery shopping. And it's time we also like built in time together. Now you're doing it alone. We're losing that. Yeah. So like if David says like, let's go on a walk, I'm like, oh, if you are down to take her on a walk, then I can get some work done. while I have this window.

So it's trying to balance lately with a baby, trying to balance those moments where you really need time on your own to do stuff, but then also not like sacrificing time together for that. But yeah, walks, so sweet. That's really sweet. So we got playing cards and walks. That's not going to save no one. That's definitely going to help zero people.

But it sounds like what you're both saying is like time together. No, these things are valid. That is not so serious. Yeah. You know, time together where you can bond or you can connect on a deeper level. You can focus on each other. That seems really important. Yeah.

And you know what? If you're in a relationship and you don't have kids, which I wouldn't think is a huge percentage of people listening. I want to make any assumptions, cherish that time that you do have together to play. Because if you're trying to get further down the line, you want to have kids, like just out of necessity that will change. And it changes for, you know, something like about five years.

You know, there's like this period is what I understand. Yeah. So, you know, cherish that. And look, my household growing up, other relationships, I noticed a downward trend over time. Like, we don't all know how to play. And so it is something that you got to like, you do have to cultivate it.

And sometimes it's just not fun, but you've got to do it. Yeah. How can you tell when you love someone truly? How did you guys figure it out? Bedroom. All. These are, just to be clear, these are not real answers. A joke

I mean I can share a little bit I'm not married I'm in a murky phase of my life but I feel like something that I've been learning is I think it's something real when you can be like fully yourself and you don't

have to hide any parts of yourself and that's like something that I really struggled with like whenever I start to have intense feelings for someone I like instantly want to hide certain parts of myself including like the feeling It's like even being able to like express openly how you feel about someone, I think is a marker, even if it takes you time because we all have different comfort levels with that. So yeah, I feel like something that I'm starting to pay attention to and prioritize, which I didn't before.

It's like, do I feel safe enough to be myself with this person? Whereas in the past, I really valued feeling nervous. Like to me, that was like a huge marker for whether or not someone was worth pursuing was if I felt nervous around them. That was like, that's how they're different. Now I'm like, oh no, I think that was the wrong. that was the wrong marker. Yeah, no, that's real. I mean, I think you learn,

I've at least learned the most about love in relationships. These ideas that I've had about them before are always, I don't even know what I thought. I really don't remember what I thought. I just knew that it was important. I was definitely a romantic, but, you know, I've been in relatively few relationships. relationships, literally four, outside of that, you know, been with nobody.

And that's every single one of them started in a, you know, I wasn't ever consciously going in to them. And then I think in order to turn that into something that could last that you'd want to found a family on, get married, all that stuff. that was when you know my my wife and I had to sort of reckon with our previous be our lifelong previous behaviors where we like really weren't pursuing love consciously at all we were sort of letting it happen literally that was like every cultural message I mean Titanic my goodness that you just got to you just let it you fall head over heels for him you don't even think about billy yes literally barely a thought and he's gorgeous by the way so like you have to really feel it and fall to not remember really, you know.

I mean, so, yeah, it's something that I definitely feel like I'm learning about as opposed to, I don't know what to say conclusively about it. I very much know that it exists and know that it's important and know that we understand it more. Yeah, I remember before getting married having this moment on a call with my dad. I was like in the middle of a breakup from the person I was dating before David and I was like distraught over that breakup and I was crying to him on the phone in the middle of a street in Brooklyn and there was this other person who, uh, was pursuing me, uh, around that time. In the middle of the street? I'm just chasing him. You need to get on the sidewalk.

So you need to, this is unsafe. No. Um, well. Well, I remember my dad telling me about this breakup. He was like, this was not the person for you. It was too much drama, too tumultuous. You don't, it was not the right person. And I was crying because in my head that all that meant that the only other option was

boring. Yeah. There was this other person who was pursuing me who was a wonderful person. Just like categorically lovely human being. But I just didn't. Yeah. He wasn't boring, but I wasn't, I wasn't into it. And I felt like, you were boring.

I felt like that means there's only these two options. Yeah. Like either, I'm so nervous, like you said, never. And that I feel like there's this excitement and spark. But that's wrong. So then the only other option is to be really safe and really bored. And my dad's like, that's not the only other option. And there is like a happy, a happy medium.

And not like, not that you should be bored with the person that you're with. That's not the happy medium. But that you can feel safe and you can feel like joyful and excited about the person. Safe and stimulated. Yeah. Yes. And that's something that my mom always says that you should wait for the pendulum to settle. Like if you're really, really excited about it, then it's probably like that's not the time to make a decision.

about somebody, especially like a huge decision, like who you should spend your life with, but that when the pendulum settles and you feel like calm and happy, that's probably a good situation. And yeah. I also have been thinking, and this is maybe more particular to my old bad habits and patterns, but there's a TikTok that's been making the rounds. It's like different girls doing the voiceover to, if you have a crush on a guy, don't worry about it, spend time with him and it'll go away.

But I think that there's, like, value to that. Like, sometimes I think we, we, like, obsess over someone or we project something, but we don't really know them. Oh, totally. So I also think that, like, to love someone truly, like, you have to know them. You have to really spend time with them. You have to stop hiding from each other. Like, you have to show each other the things that you don't like about yourselves and be comfortable with that because you're not going to be okay with everyone's shortcomings. And you shouldn't be okay with everyone's shortcomings.

But you have to be okay with your partner's shortcomings. And your partner has to know yours, too, to be okay with them. So that's something that I've been learning, like, oh, I, like, this person does need to show me, like, what they're struggling with. They're, like, the darker side for me to then make a decision. And I think sometimes we just, like, build it up too quickly. Or you just move too fast. Like, it takes more than a couple weeks, I think, to really know. Don't go anywhere.

We'll be right back. All right. So let's just, let's just real talk, as they say, for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say. now that that dates me doesn't it um but no real talk uh how important is your health to you you know on like a one to 10 and i don't mean the in the sense of vanity i mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well right you want to be less stressed you don't want it as sick when you have responsibilities um i know myself i'm a householder i have uh i have two children and two more on the

way um a spouse a pet you know a job that sometimes has its demands so i I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down some other way physically. My family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so, honestly, I turned to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets

that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with. the three that I use I use the what is it called liposomal vitamin C and it tastes delicious like really really good comes out in the packet you put it right in your mouth some people don't do that I do it I think it tastes great I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning really good for gut health and although I don't need it you know anti-aging and then I also

use the magnesium L3 and 8 which is really good for for I think mood and stress I sometimes use it in the morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible. Honestly, you don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. As the seasons change, it's the perfect time to learn something new.

Whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or, looking for a new challenge before the year ends, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language progress. Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language on desktop or mobile whenever and wherever it fits your schedule. Rosetta Stone immerses you in your new language naturally, helping you think and communicate with confidence. There are no English translation,

so you truly learn to speak, listen, and think in your chosen language. The other day, I was actually at the grocery store, and I asked one of the people working there if they could help me find a specific item, and she was like, sorry, I actually don't speak English. She only spoke Spanish, and I was like, if only I, my Spanish was good enough

to be able to have this conversation in Spanish, we would be sorted. And that's where Rosetta Stone comes in. I really need to get back on my Rosetta Stone grind. With 30 years of experience, millions of users, and 25 languages to choose from, including Spanish, French, German, Japanese, and more. Rosetta Stone is the go-to tool for real language growth. A lifetime membership gives you access to all 25 languages

so you can learn as many as you want whenever you want. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. Podcrush listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit rosettastone.com slash podcrush to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to rosettastone.com slash podcrush and start learning today. The first few weeks of school are in the books and now's the time to keep that momentum going. I-XL helps kids stay confident and ahead of the curve.

I-XL is an award-winning online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning. whether they're brushing up on math or diving into social studies, it covers math, language arts, science, and social studies from pre-K through 12th grade with content that's engaging, personalized, and yes, actually fun. It's the perfect tool to keep learning going without making it feel like school. I actually used I Excel quite a bit when I was teaching fifth grade. I used it for my students to give like extra problems for practice or sometimes I also used it to just check on what the standards were in my state for any given topic in math or reading or writing. It's just a helpful tool all around for teachers, for parents, for

students. I honestly do love it. Studies have shown that kids who use I-XL score higher on tests. This has been proven in almost every state in the U.S. So if your child is struggling, this is a smart investment that you can make in their learning. A single hour of tutoring costs. more than a month of I-XL. Don't miss out. One in four students in the U.S. are learning with I-XL, and I-XL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S.

Make an impact on your child's learning. Get I-XL now. And Podcrush listeners can get an exclusive 20% off I-XL memberships when they sign up today at IXL.com slash podcrushed. Visit Iexel.com slash podcrushed to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Should we talk about first loves here? Sure.

I mean, that's what we do with our guests. Why not? How haven't we, surely we've done that before, no? We've talked about first crushes, which I feel like is slightly different. Oh, first love. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, that's, yeah, you're right.

Yeah, that's interesting. Well, all of mine are famous, so I'm going to have to be the fifth. What about you, Sophie, first love? My first love was in high school. and he I was like about to tell you his name his name Spen Bobby

Sven close yeah we we dated when I was starting in 10th grade so like my end of 10th grade I dated him for 11th and 12th and then a little bit after high school

and I have no bad things to say about him he's truly like the loveliest sweetest human and I think somebody else asked us like do you ever keep in touch with your your exes from high school and we did keep in touch loosely like a couple years after we broke up and then just you know naturally lost touch and then recently like maybe a year ago I reached out to him I actually had this like reckoning in my life about friendship where a friend of mine I had reached out to her being like how why did we ever lose touch totally had no idea myself and she was like you don't remember she went like she had a whole experience that i didn't realize um about like our friendship

breakup sort of and then i started going through and asking my other friends never do this by the way don't ever it was really letting yourself up for some turmoil yeah it was it was hard um but i started reaching out to other friends who like we can we had you know we were still in touch but it wasn't the same and I was like do you feel like I'm a bad friend or do you have you felt like I haven't been in touch as much or that I kind of like haven't made an effort and it turned out that there were a few people that felt that way and it was it just it led to a lot of introspection but anyway it made me reach out to him and because we had like such a sweet lovely relationship and I broke up with him in kind of a cold-hearted way

looking back and we never really talked about it and I was young I was 19 when we broke up and anyway I reached out to him to be like are you upset still? This is like when I was 27 and we had a really lovely conversation

we exchanged like a bunch of voice notes and cleared the air he was never upset actually but exchanging voice notes is probably not a conversation I think it is I mean it's not he's not a phone call Penn has never listened to a voice note, so it's like, yes, no, you know.

Voice notes, to me, that's a whole other conversation. No, he hates them. He did accidentally send a voice note to a group chat once. He sent a voice note. We didn't know it wasn't accidental. No, I was in the car. I had to. Okay, okay.

So it's like, this is insane. I have heard Penn say multiple times, don't send me a voice note. I will not listen. Yeah, I know I had to. Well, you know what it is is I started using the, what's it called, dictate, like, function while, while driving. It was an accident. You said you were trying to dictate to text, but it actually ended up being a voice. Yes, but I didn't really, yeah.

Yeah, so that's an accident. But I was trying to send that message that I said. But not as a voice note. I was speaking in a certain way. I was like, just so you know, there has been an accident on the 90. Yeah. Anyway, I do, yeah, no bad things to say about him. Such a sweetheart.

Penn, you're not going to tell us about the first. I think the first, your first, love, we don't know. who she is. I don't think that's public. You don't have to say her name. No, that's true. So it's a... He's getting nervous. No, no, no. So, I mean, what's unfortunate... I did have a relationship in my teens that

unfortunately I would not call the sort of love... I would not call it... A great pain of my upbringing is that this first relationship, I would not call my first love. And it was a long relationship. And I've learned a lot about that. And aside...

This sounds like he's dictating... No, no, no. So... As I'm outside. You're trying so hard not to say, like, I know, I know. Well, no, no. So there's a way to share this, but I want it. But we're probably going to want to cut this

because it's just not the sort of... So, you know, you guys know that the first, like, this woman who I was in a relationship with, she died, like, right before we started recording our first episodes from alcoholism, which started when we were together. It was a very dark, it was a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very heavy. Like, like, it's so heavy that, actually, I didn't even speak about it in my 20s, hardly. So the whole point is that, um,

my first love didn't really happen. Like, I think there were a lot of potential. There were a lot of, like, intense feelings with brief encounters that never even were. And then the first time there was anything extended, really, was like this sort of nine-day or ten-day affair. I had with this, you know, like a girl my age of woman. I was 20.

I think she was 21. Is that right? No, 19. 19. I was 19. And that was really cool. And it was very much, like, shared. It was very much mutual.

But then she also, she ghosted me because she had a relationship back in, where she was from. And I think maybe a year later, it was understood and we reconnected and whatever, whatever. But then I think my first, like real sustainable, what I would call first true love, was the first significant relationship in my 20s. And, you know, and that's, so I was, I was older by the time I would say that I had a true love. Yeah. I think it was a good segue to how do you deal with heartbreak?

So when those relationships didn't work out, how did you deal with heartbreak? I personally... I'm probably the best equipped to answer for this because I've current, you know, but yeah. Yeah. Part of me has always been excited during a breakup because I at least know like, well, this is the way forward because this is clearly not working out, right? I've never had a breakup that was like not mutual really

I've also never seriously pursued someone it's always been very mutual my experiences for whatever reason so you know the heartbreak has been for me it's always been an opportunity to like you know there's a roomy quote in Arabic I'll say it in Urdu actually

no it's it's something like god enters through the wound the light enters the wound the wound is the place where the light enters something like that yeah something like that yeah um and and that's a that's a that's a universal like platitude we all know but it's a truth and so for me it's always been an opportunity to to grow seriously to like really i always would engage in a path of spiritual search after you know and that would eventually meet in the Baha'i faith uh meet you too meet you too were you just talking to nav up first no i said you too i said you two very

close together like the band you're you're inventing that comma yeah uh how do i deal with heartbreak well did you yeah not great i don't have any advice to give i think what i what i did a lot of the time was just the way I dealt with it was move on to the next person honestly which is not a healthy

I don't think it's necessarily healthy but but it is good to not get stuck there's something to that yeah well but I think ideally

you don't have to be in another you don't have to be pursuing someone else or entertaining the idea of another relationship in order to be okay and to move on

but I feel like pretty much each time that's what happened I have a lengthy answer to this I'm going to borrow from Matthew Hussie because I am a fan and I've like done some of his stuff. I think that the key to moving through heartbreak, I think there's like two parts. One is, well, actually there are so many parts.

But one is like you can avoid a lot of heartbreak by how you enter a relationship or how you enter the pursuit. Like if you can, I think be honest, have difficult conversations early on. I think you can avoid a lot of the ambiguity and murkiness that contributes to a certain kind of heartbreak, which is the kind that I've experienced more. I've been in a few relationships, very few, and I've broken up each time. But I have experienced, like, rejection or, like, you know, unrecipricated feeling. So that's what most of my heartbreak has been. From an ended relationship, I've never felt heartbreak in the aftermath. Apologies to those gentlemen.

But it just felt like there was the right choice. Yeah. But so for the kind of, like, heartbreak that I've experienced that I'm sure some of you have as well, where it's like it's unrecipricated or you feel like you're not enough because someone doesn't choose you. I think that you can avoid a lot of that if you're just, like, really honest in how you're approaching things and you don't let things be ambiguous for too long. But let's say you've gotten to that point or you really care about someone and it doesn't work out. I think the key is both to

feel what you're feeling, like allow that emotion to visit you and not try to like brush it away or sleep it under the carpet, but don't get stuck in it. Like keep moving and think about like if I'm feeling lonely, I don't have to be with this person to alleviate my loneliness. Let me reach out to like my community, let me reach out to my family, my friends. If I'm feeling like I'm confused about love, let me read. So I'm like, let me ask people that I trust to, like, recommend text to me. Or I feel like there are other things that you can do to kind of nurture the, because the feeling is usually attached to other needs that we have or other, like, related emotions. But for me, I will say, like, it had been about five years before I'd really felt any kind of heartbreak in the last five

years. And then this summer there was someone that I was getting to know. And I sort of quickly developed a bond with him. And I did feel a degree of heartbreak when he made a different choice. But I was able to move through it pretty quickly. Definitely the fastest that I've ever ever gotten over a situation like that. And honestly, what helped me was dance classes. I basically like, I had a dance class that I would take once a week that brought me a lot of joy. I'm not good enough at dance to like drift. If I'm not paying attention, I'll get lost and I feel embarrassed. So for like an hour a week, my mind was just focused on dance. So I started tripling the number of dance classes. I go like three or four times a week. And just to have like three or four hours a week

where my mind was like focused on one thing really intensely, truly was healing. Like it really, I honestly believe helped me get over the situation to just be like, like to physically focus on movement helped me mentally and emotionally also focus on movement. And to have the habit of mind of like, if my mind starts to drift to this person, don't indulge it. Don't look at his social media. like don't reread the text just like move forward and that really helped me and that's the fastest that I've ever gotten over someone

yes I just to speak to that I was going to say one time that I did something that really helped was throw myself into something creative I remember I was going through a heartbreak that was really rough

in like when I was 20 or something and I made a stop motion and it took me like it was a similar situation I couldn't think about anything else it took all day for several days it was like totally time consuming and the heartbreak was just kind of like fertilizer for for something creative and so it felt like there was something positive coming out

of it so yeah I think throw yourself into something creative is a really helpful thing that's actually you know what the the one time I was I think most significantly heartbroken I made a record yeah yeah use it for art use it use it it's true use it Use it. Make money. Get famous. Okay, this is, sorry, I keep asking about. I'll ask one more because it kind of relates to what we were just talking about. How has your definition of love changed over time based on your experiences? I'll just kick us off. I had already shared this, like being safe, like not taking nervousness as a barometer, all of those things. But I also think something that I've been reflecting on this year and thinking about movement and like also feeling your emotions but not letting them like not dwelling on them.

There's this poem by Rumi. It's called The Guest House. It's really famous. A lot of you probably know it, but I'm going to read it and then just say that I have read this poem many times, but I have a really different relationship to it this year. So the poem says, this is a translation, of course. It says, this being human is a guest house. Every morning a new arrival, a joy, a depression, a meanness.

Some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor. Welcome and entertain them all. Even if there are a crowd of sorrows who violently sweep your house, empty of its furniture still treat each guest honorably he may be clearing you out for some new delight the dark thought the shame the malice meet them at the door laughing and invite them in be grateful for whoever comes because each has been sent as a guide from beyond and the reason that I'm sharing that is like how my definition of love has changed is I think to be less attached to my emotions and also not to be ashamed of them so to know like if I'm feeling intense

for someone that's a feeling that's a visitor that intensity even if you end up with that person the intensity will change so I think like what you're looking for in a partner isn't emotions necessarily but like really character like am I down with this person's character like are we compatible um and to like just really really be detached from like do I feel excited do I feel less do I feel love like I used to really focus on the feelings um and not the reality so trying to focus more on the reality rather than the feelings which come and go and they're temporary visitors but also to like welcome them when they come like this this visitor is here for a reason so like why is this visitor here why am i feeling jealousy in this moment what can i learn from that why am i feeling loneliness why am i feeling intense love um so yeah that's sort of how

i've been thinking about it a lot like to just be really detached and more humble before my own emotions and not get like i'm going to hold on to this one and build a fantasy around this one yeah Oh, yeah, sure. I'll take it from here. Yeah. My definition of love probably couldn't have changed more since I was younger. I mean, again, it's hard to recall exactly what I thought, but I know that I thought it was just those feelings that you were talking about. And I was like remembering from that perspective, what would I have even thought what you're,

if you're saying it's not, the feelings are not the reality, like try to understand the reality. What does that even mean? I mean, I'm actually, I'm saying that as a. genuine question and not trying to like you know spar with you it's like it's a it's a hard thing to know what we're really talking about we talk about love because and this is where I'm just going to you know completely unveil it take the gloves off for me you know it's our faith we're all Baha'is but I'll just speak about my experience as a as a Baha'i a person who

came to this like this this framework where I see the world as as not just a spiritual experience or a spiritual enterprise but there is a profound meaning to life that is knowable there there is a we do come from an origin which is a source of love with a capital l that is so unknowable but is is experienced in these like glimpses and degrees and love is like this this quality that uh that that is like the sun in a way it's it's it's it's it's so great that you have to be about 93 million miles away from it and like turning around constantly so you don't get burnt by its power um but then of course saying that is just i don't know it can sound like a bunch of vague nonsense i guess what i'm trying to say is that

there's a lot of nonsense about about love out there and i think that it's becoming an increasingly nonsensical idea in a world that is struggling to find it and a world that is struggling to know it and I don't have personally, I don't have a framework for believing in love outside of believing in God, outside of believing in like that there is a purpose and meaning and arc and inevitability to like the goodness of life that if you think you somehow don't experience in this one, you experience it in the next one. You know, I'm just in a phase of life where it's like I, you know, I don't know how to talk about on any other terms, frankly. If it comes down to anything simple and practical,

it's like that it is cultivated, it is chosen, it is built, and understood, it doesn't just happen. Yeah. That basic thing is like believing that it just happens, which is saying it's like total chance and like luck or something. And random and arbitrary. And therefore, by the way, meaningless. It can't possibly have meaning if it's just those things

because it just flits away randomly. Yeah. Yeah. know so to me it's like it's it's it's a complete it's like a total paradigm shift to really believe in love as something that is valid and relevant and powerful like I guess what I'm trying to say also is that I understand where people think that it's like probably a lot of young men probably question like what the hell are people even talking about how is that relevant to my life you know like what what is what is love is

This is a huge question, actually. It's funny. It really is. It gets at these, like, ontological, like, what are we doing here? Why are we here? What is the purpose of life? Like, Sophie, go ahead. Can I just add one thing before it?

Just because you pointed this out, kind of, like, well, what does it mean to focus on reality instead of the feelings? And I had, like, briefly alluded to Matthew Hussies-Rick, but this is sort of what I found really helpful. And crazy that I only found it through him. Like, we should be socializing these ideas more and more. I mean, you know, my own stupidity for not coming to this by myself, but sort of this idea that like, so dumb, but this idea that like it's not real unless you're both building it together. You can't have one person building a house that's like, if the relationship is the house, you can't have one person building it.

Like that has to be a team effort. So like you both have to be building it. You both have to be committed to it. You have to have a shared vision of what this house is going to be. So I think the reality is like two people who have a vision and are committed to carrying it out and are committed enough to the relationship or the marriage, the thing that you build together that like you know there are going to be difficult periods. They might even last years. And like you're still committed enough that like you're going to weather that and you're going to be as like kind to each other and courteous. And you know, you're going to bring the right qualities to the table to weather those storms. But yeah, I think love is tested and and it's like it's a mutual. commitment it's not just excitement it's not mutual excitement it has to go much much further beyond that yeah it's conscious and i just feel like we we live in a culture where love is considered unconscious and that the reason i brought up faith and god and all this stuff is because i think we also live in a

culture that thinks of reality is unconscious and if you have faith or you know as i understand it you believe the reality is conscious so there's a difference there is a difference actually and i think that And I think that we should follow the logic of our given frameworks. And if we really are pursuing one where we don't believe that there is any kind of purpose or meaning to life, love is, love is an imaginary creation that might be irrelevant and a waste of time. So, you know, so like to me, it's a big, big, big, big, big question. Again, Sophie, please go. Yeah.

A friend recently asked me, like, how do you know she's in a relationship and she's like, how do you know when you should just like take the leap and it's like the person for you and I was realizing actually there's like a sweet spot between like in that period of getting to know somebody you want to really be thoroughly acquainted with who they are and and like all their quirks all their shortcomings and the really beautiful strengths that they have you want to become acquainted with all of that you don't want to rush into it but at the same time there is, you know, in the Baha'i faith, there's this idea that marriage is a fortress for well-being. And people are going to annoy you.

Yeah. They're going to annoy you. You're going to find things that that irk you about them. So find someone that doesn't annoy you. Is that what you're saying? If you spend too long in the process of like, well, hmm, is this perfect? Is this really like, I know this isn't a question about marriage, but that's my context for it. Yeah.

Then you're never going to settle on, on, you're never going to enter into that fortress for well-being. You're never going to be able to experience the like security that comes with that. Because when you, when you do enter into it and you find, inevitably find things that annoy you about that person, you're committed and you're, you're, I think you were speaking to this. Like you're, you're going to weather that storm. But if you're not, then it's easy to just be like, well, they weren't, they didn't

meet all of the criteria. So as long as there's like these fundamental values are aligned, I think just, just go for it is like something I've been thinking about recently. And then how has my view of love changed? I think I used to think it was something totally separate from friendship. And now I don't. I think it's like friendship on steroids. Yeah.

Friends with benefits. He's bringing it back to the bedroom. Just play us. What other paradigm is there? Stick around. We'll be right back. Fall is in full swing and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm, and save big without compromising on quality.

Quince has all the elevated essentials for fall. I'll think 100% Mongolia and Kashmir from $50. That's right, $50, washable silk tops and skirts, and perfectly tailored denim, all at prices that feel too good to be true. I am currently eyeing their silk miniskirt. I have been dying for a silk miniskirt. I've been looking everywhere at thrift stores, just like all over town. But I just saw that Quince has one on their website. It is exactly what I've been looking for. So I'm just going to click. put that in my cart. By partnering directly with ethical top-tier factories, Quince cuts out the middlemen to deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. It's the kind

of wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish, and effortless. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash podcrushed for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E dot com slash podcrushed to get free shipping. Go to get free shipping and 365-day returns. quince.com slash podcrushed. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time, everything it can be

for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with pre-nom. premium proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair, beef mash, lamb, pilaf, and turkey and chicken cookout. I mean, are you kidding me? I want to eat these recipes.

Each recipe is cooked gently in small batches to seal in vital nutrients and maximize digestibility. And their recipes are crafted by vet nutritionists. So I feel good knowing its design with Louie's health and happiness in mind. serve nom nom as a complete and balanced meal or as a tasty and healthy addition to your dog's current diet. My dogs are like my children, literally, which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best. Hold on.

Let me start again because I've only been talking about Louie. Louis is my beep. Louie, you might have heard him growl just now. Louis is my little baby and I'm committed to only giving him the best. I love that nom nom nom nom's recipes contain wholesome nutrient rich food, meat, looks like meat and veggies that look like veggies because shocker they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lambie laugh guy. Keep mealtime exciting with nom nom available at your

local pet smart store or at chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. August 2025 marks 20 years since Hurricane Katrina changed New Orleans forever. There have been many accounts of the storm's devastation and what it took to rebuild, but behind those headlines is another story, one that impacted the lives of thousands of children. Where the schools went is a new five-part podcast series about what happened to the city's schools after the Levy's broke and how it led to the most radical education experiment in American history.

Hosted by Ravi Gupta, a former school principal, where the schools went, traces the decades of dysfunction before Katrina, and how the high-stakes decisions that followed transformed the city's school system. You'll hear from the voices of the people who lived it, from veteran educators who lost their jobs, to the idealists and outsiders who rushed in, to the students and families who lived through it all. Whether you're a parent, an educator, or someone who cares about how communities and public systems can work together.

where the schools went is a story you need to hear from the branch in partnership with the 74 and Midas touch where the schools went is out now find it wherever you get your podcast and start listening today so I mentioned that I broke up with my first love in like a sort of cold-hearted way in a mosque no sorry it was at a time when I was really coming to terms with my own religion of my relationship to my religion my own relationship to faith and I just decided it was a very like young and dumb thought but I just decided like you know

we're too different he wasn't religious he didn't believe in God and I just felt like there's no way we can work it out and I sort of just ended it one day of a long term two and a half year relationship I was just like it's not going to happen

and I regretted that later on not because I think I should have stayed in the relationship but just like the manner in which I did it. And I think there are people who've found ways to reconcile differences in faith and religion with their spouse or with their long-term partner. That's the question that a bunch of people asked us, how do you navigate a relationship where you have a different religion or different relationship to religion?

And one specific question that they asked actually was, how do you reconcile differences in relationship to faith? the person you're in a relationship with. The other was if you're curious about a new, a different religion or spiritual practice that your spouse isn't, how do you go about exploring that? You know, it's not ever easy. I think even if you have the same faith,

I think if you have the same faith, you might be kidding yourself to think that it's, oh, that's like kind of, then we got that. Yeah, you actually go on a lot of assumptions. Yeah, because we're talking about your relationship to what you think, what the hell we're doing here on planet Earth. Whether that's a big question or a little question to you, that matters. And it has to be something similar to your partner.

It has to be. You know, you have to think we're here for some kind of similar reason. Or that it's agreeable that we're not here for a reason, you know? I think people with, who really feel like opposite ends of that spectrum, that to me is like, that's incompatible. I don't know how anybody could, I really don't know how anybody could bridge that gap for very long. if you really because I think

it has to be about investigating reality for yourself like you you know I'm also not a person who's ever been passively religious

like if there was such a thing is Orthodox Baha'i I'd be the leader he would be our priest you know like and when I was pursuing what I thought was the truth

in psychedelics like I pursued that hard and when I you know when I thought it was all about just being in love in a relationship, I pursued that hard. Yeah. When I thought it was all about making that money, I wasn't succeeding.

For some way, I was really, really poor. Yeah. Didn't you have your things in the garbage bag? Is that what Dom told us? Yeah. I did, but I had some money then. That wasn't a related to. Yeah.

I have some thoughts on this. I've been thinking about this. This year I've been dating the most that I've ever dated. That's why Penn keeps telling me I'm a slut. She's in her hoe era I don't think I use the word slut I really don't think I've used it Welcome to your slutty era

Okay I did it once and over a text Yeah he did it once once That word I gotta say makes me uncomfortable You can use it He didn't dictate that one I can't I will just say I don't know anyone in explanation But I will just say

Just because I wanted to be out there That if when I date multiple people I'm not physically intimate with them That's like something that would make me really uncomfortable to do with multiple people So anyway But as I'm like getting to know multiple people This year

everyone that I've gotten to know has been agnostic, which is the first time that I've ever gotten to know someone who wasn't religious. I've gotten to know Christians in Baha'is, namely. And prior to this year, I always thought that a shared love of God would be super important to my relationship, whether or not we were the same faith. And I'm, you know, I'm still like working through my feelings about whether or not that is important to have this shared love of God. but I actually reached out to a friend of mine who married a Baha'i. He is a Baha'i now, but for 10 years, the first 10 years of his marriage and the first, like, five years of the relationship before they got married, wasn't.

And I asked him, like, what was helpful in how your wife approached your differences and, like, what wasn't helpful? And anyway, he sent me a long response, but there's part of it that I wanted to read, because I think it applies to other things besides religion, and it was really helpful. He said, entering into relationship, hoping that he will change is not. not going to work. Even if he changes, he's not going to do it on your timetable. If you're into him, you need to be all in. You're on your spiritual journey and he's on his. If you can help each other on your journeys, that's amazing. But that doesn't mean that you're going to put a stake on where

you need him to end up to be with him. This will definitely backfire. His journey is not a reflection on you if you date him. You need to trust that he's doing what he needs to do to authentically investigate truth. And I thought that was really helpful and really like directly answered something that I was struggling with. But the thing that I'm still trying to figure out that I think is important to me is that the person would respect my point of view. Like if he thinks that what I believe is superstition and wouldn't see like the Baha'i writings as a legitimate resource to make decisions because I turn to them sort of to consult like what do the Baha'i writings say on certain things. If he would disregard it and say that superstition, we're only

going to go based on like what psychology says or science, I think it wouldn't work between us. because that is how I make decisions and that's like in a marriage like I'm going to continue to make decisions with this person. So we have to be compatible and how we consult about making decisions. And that's something that I haven't been able to answer yet, that question. That actually makes me think that like we live in an era where like people constantly pathologize one another, even if you're the same, you know, whether it's, you're talking about religion or you're just talking about like, I don't know, mentality. And I think that we I think that something at the crux of what you're saying

or what we're talking about occurs to me is like, is that, is that there's a respect and curiosity about the other's opinion and that you're not seeking to either convert or pathologize, you know? And so for that reason, I actually would think that people with evidently, you know, If it's like a Christian and Jew, Jew and Muslim, Muslim, whatever, like that, that's all,

as long as you believe in, you know, God and then there's like a prophet, I would imagine that all, like, helps a lot. But it feels to me like, I think it would be hard, you know, with like, like, really divergent views. I think, and I think if you don't respect the way that somebody thinks, you will run into all sorts of problems down the road because you can discount anything that they say, you know, you have to have to respect the way their mind works

and the way they come to decisions. Yeah. And furthermore to be interested in it, I think, too. Strong note to go out on. What a banger. People have tuned out by now, let's be honest. Yeah, definitely. This is just us.

Yeah, yeah. This is just therapy. It's really helpful. I love you guys. Oh, I love you too. You too, Penn. Say it back. We need to hear it.

I love you both. are you telling the truth you can't you can't second guess that's not love that's bullshit I was just cornered I was gas at you and why did you say I love you but oh we can cut that down to 40 minutes

probably we can cut that down to 40 minutes probably Thank you.