Podcrushed - Jesse Tyler Ferguson

Episode Date: February 19, 2025

Jesse Tyler Ferguson (Modern Family, Dinner's On Me) brings his buoyant sarcasm and wellspring of wild stories to the pod -- from the time he got pinned to a fence and ditched by a roving gang of eighth graders, to his arrest and court appearance as teenager, to the serendipitous story of his Modern Family audition. Follow Podcrushed on socials: Instagram TikTok XSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A bunch of kids grabbed me and pinned my jacket. I had like, you know, buttons, like those like heavy-duty winter coat buttons. They pinned the ones that were on my hood to a chain link fence. And then pinned my arms as well, my cuffs to a chain-link fence. And then the bell rang for when to go in and they left me. Welcome to podcast. We're hosts. I'm Penn.

I'm Sophie and I'm Nava and I think we would have been your middle school besties. Running lines together for the middle school play. Welcome to Pod Crushed. My co-host, Navakavalin and Sophie Ansari. I, you know, I've talked a lot. I just don't stop talking about my past, my relationship to theater, my relationship to acting and what's meant to me. But you two, have you guys ever been in plays in school?

It would have only been in school, clearly, not professional, like me. Yeah. In kindergarten, I was in the play Peter Rabbit, and I was the illustrious mother rabbit. The mother rabbit. That's my story. Did you just, like, have to hop across the stage? I don't remember. I don't remember what I did, Sophie.

Wow. It was five years old. I was actually in quite a few plays. I was following in my brother and sisters' footsteps. I wanted to do theater. Both of them were in theater all throughout school. And I remember my brother telling me when I was in seventh grade, we had a debate where he was like, middle school theater is not real theater. Like, it's not up to scratch.

It's not like high school theater. And I was indignant. I was like, how could you say that? It's true art. Anyway, by the time I got to 10th grade, I had to decide what to do for I be. Obviously, I was going to do theater. And Callen took me aside. And he put his hand on my shoulder.

He said, Sophie, I think you should consider film. He said, I've seen you on stage and I don't, you know, I don't think it's your thing. Do you think that he really thought you'd be better in film or just wanted you to get on stage? I think he was like, you're not, you don't have it. You haven't got the spark. Yeah, I have had like family members at distinct times in my life, like take me aside and be like, you're not good at this thing. This feels like a very Rutstein. Anyway, we're not going to psychoanalyze your family.

But I will say as part of the TikTok trifecta that I think Colin might have been wrong. I think you might have had, I mean, you're good at film, but you might have had it in you to also be good at acting. I don't know. Yeah, I was, you know, it was taken from me. It was taken from you.

What a tragedy. Well, you know who it wasn't taken from is today's guest. We have the Tony Award-winning actor, Jesse Tyler Ferguson, who you probably know, you might know, you surely know from his role as Mitchell on the iconic sitcom Modern Family. He's also been on Broadway, as I said. Production is fully committed and take me out.

Jesse is not just an actor. He is also a podcaster, a fellow podcaster, now a friend of the pod. His podcast is called Dinner's On Me, where he takes people out to dinner. Big name friends, usually like big name restaurants. And I'm jealous. I don't know why we didn't do that.

I don't know where this 12-year-old thing came from. And they don't have to set up cameras. They sit at a restaurant. Guys, that's paid for. I'm sure it's paid for. And they get to eat. Oh, yeah. Well, anyway, today he is on our podcast where we did not eat.

There were no chef-cooked meals or wine. I was a bit worried he might storm out in a rage. I thought, might he demand a da confi for a steak d'autau? You'll have to stick around. Just do find out. Where? Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it?

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Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lambie laugh guy. Keep mealtime exciting with nom-num available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrush spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. Hey, it's Lena Wade. Legacy Talk is my love letter to black storytellers, artists who've changed the game and paved the way for so many of us. This season, I'm sitting down with icons like Felicia Rashad, Loretta Vine, Ava Du René, and more. We're talking about their journeys, their creative process, and the legacies they're building every single day.

Come be a part of the conversation. Season 2 drops July 29th. Listen to Legacy Talk wherever you get your podcast, or watch us on YouTube. let's just start with a snapshot of jesse at 12 you know what was your what was your day to day like at school at home oh it's very busy um very busy i was a mover in a shaker no i was a very very shy kid um i grew up in albuquerque new mexico which is a terrible place to raise a redhead um i um honestly very hot and plenty extraordinarily. And I was, you know, I was a very, very shy, quiet kid. And, you know, when I was around age 11, I was, my day to day was sort of just trying to survive the day and get through the day.

And, you know, I was always so appreciative of the kids who would just leave me alone because I had a group of people who were my, you know, regular bullies. but I consider the people who would just leave me alone even though they weren't my friends I was like oh these people are just leaving me alone so that was my standard I had my bullies

and then the people that would leave me alone and I enjoyed the people who left me alone that's just how I survived day to day it's something that I look back upon and I think is character building but it's also something that I wish I didn't have to go through you know it was

It was not an easy childhood for me. So, I mean, at this point, it sounds like, or at least it seems like in our research, that you were pretty deeply embedded in theater. You were a theater kid, right? Yeah. Yeah, I went to a Catholic school, and there wasn't a great theater program. I don't know why being a Catholic school means it didn't have a good theater. But they were very invested in their sports departments, and there was nothing in, like, the fine arts.

So my mom enrolled me in the Albuquerque Children's Theater. you did children's theater too right penn i did yeah you know i often say that i started at 12 but the truth is i started at 8 i started at 8 because i moved to washington state and then i started theater in seattle right yep yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah i started i thought i started in a theater program that was an extracurricular theater program around the age of 8 and uh my mom took me to go see one of the shows and I remember sitting in the theater and being so enthralled with what was happening in front of me on stage. And I didn't want to be in the audience seats. I wanted to be on the other side of the stage lights and actually be doing that thing.

And so when I told my mom that, she was just shocked because I was such a shy kid. I was such an introvert. So I think she really, you know, supported that because it was an outlet for me. And it was the first time that I sort of expressed interest in something. on my own and I wasn't just sort of following the plan of like, you know, the extracurricular stuff that my parents had had enrolled me in. And it really surprised them. And but I really took to it. And I found the people that felt like they understood me in those groups of people, you know, the wacky theater kids. And they, none of the people that I went to school with were in these

programs. So it was like I had a fresh start there. And I had friends for the first time. But it was hard because I sort of lived a double life. I was like, you know, this. Fun kid at the theater school and then like, you know, back in my grade school, I was, you know, the pariah again, so. You talked about how at school you were grateful for this group of kids who would just leave you alone. Like that's, that was your bar. And I'm wondering if you had somebody to talk to about that feeling or did you keep it internal? You know, it's, it's funny because as I've been doing my own podcast, I've actually. And when I hear people's stories that sometimes share parts of my life that I've never shared before, my mom has been listening.

Well, my mom passed away in November, but when she was listening, thank you, thank you. She was listening to the podcast every week when she was, you know, still with us. And she would say things like, oh, I didn't know that this was going on. Like, I didn't know things were so hard for you. Or if she did know that they were hard for me, she didn't know that they affected me in the way that they did. And that's all to say that I don't think I have. had a lot of people to open up to. I didn't feel safe around a lot of people.

And also, I didn't want to share those parts of myself with this newfound theater community because I didn't feel like, I just didn't feel safe exposing that part of me. Like I was being accepted by these groups, like why like, you know, shake something up that's working fine. It did get to a point where like when I was in grade school,

I was bullied bad enough. And I'm laughing just because some of the things what they did to me are just like so horrified. I'm like, wow, you all were creative and awful. But I remember like being one of the worst, I don't know why it makes me laugh. But one of the worst things that happened to me is I was in a, I was in our recess, the lunch recess and a bunch of kids grabbed me and, um, pinned my jacket. I had like, you know, buttons like those like heavy duty winter coat buttons.

they pinned the ones that were on my hood to a chain link fence and then pinned my arms as well my my cuffs to a chain link fence and then the bell rang for it went to go in and they left me and I was pinned to this chain link fence right next to the eighth grade classroom and I was like in sixth grade at this time and so all these older kids were like laughing at me through these windows right outside their door and a teacher had to come and like unsnap me and rescue me I was like being crucified on a chain link center basically That's like a horrifying belief. Yeah, horrified.

And so at the end of my seventh grade year, when those instances started, when the kids got more creative and I thought, okay, this could get dangerous. I did sort of tell my parents, it's like, I don't know if I feel safe at this school. And they transferred me to another school that I went to for a year. And then when I started in high school, my freshman year, I went to another Catholic school. And a lot of the kids that, it was like the great melting pot because all the tiny little schools would end up at this private school. And so a lot of these, my former bullies who I had escaped from for a year, you know, came back. But at that point, I sort of had a year of respite away from them. And it was a larger pool of kids.

And I sort of, I felt like it was a bit of a new beginning for me. But it was definitely like year to year. I was like, okay, how am I going to get through this hour, this day, this year? And it was rough. It does sound it. I mean, something. about I haven't I don't think I've heard from a guest recently I mean we've had obviously a lot of bullying stories on here and it's and it's it is it's a strange duality whereas adults we can

and I think in some way should laugh at it but then at the same time when you tell that story I mean to be honest part of me just wants to like cry and hold that boy that's so it's such that's like that's a kind of brutality and just the isolation that's that inculcates in anybody. So I just want to say, I'm sorry. And I'm sorry. And like for a child to go through that is like. You're very kind.

I, you know, I'm a parent now. So like I have a four and a half year old, a two year old. And I just think about how I would feel if that happened to either one of them. I mean, they're too young to be in that place where kids are bullying them. But, you know, I get nervous for what happens. What's going to happen for them. And I really am so proud when I see. my son, Beckett, my four and a half year old, stand up for other kids.

You know, we're grading that in him. And it's really, I was like, oh, don't ever lose that. I know for me, being on set, whether it's a play, whatever, you know, it's a place where a part of me has always been able to come to life that wasn't able to anywhere else. You know, you were saying a moment ago that in a way you didn't want to tell the people you were in doing theater with because you had friends and they were accepting you, but do you also think that maybe you were just in a way like allowed to come to life differently

and that you were a little bit different? Oh, yes. No, you really, I mean, that's exactly it, Penn. I mean, like I had, for the first time, I felt like I was finding myself and I was able to just relax and be a kid and explore. And, you know, of course, like in theater school, it's all about exploration games

and like pretend to be the color red. and like now you're a red dinosaur now like you're slow walking red dinosaur yeah it's like it's all just about like really pushing the limits of who you are and i really i i thrived in that and i i'm so grateful that i found theater and it's why even today theater is like my my number one love and um i'm so grateful that yeah yeah i'm i'm i'm a changed person even like Even now, having, you know, now done television and film, and every time I get to go back and do a play and I get to be in that rehearsal space, I just feel like I can exhale a little bit and I feel comfortable and I feel like I'm my fully formed version of me. That's beautiful. Did you have any experiences with crushes at your theater program?

Not really. I was a pretty sexless child. No, I didn't really. I had a romantic interest in this girl, Adriana. But it was sort of like wrought in like, it was very fraught. It was very, like, rooted in like musical theater romance. Like we, like, we have a love like Marius and Cosette and Lemisarab. Like, we have a love like the Phantom of the Opera and Christine. We have a love like, yeah, it's just like it was very dramatic.

and just very like I would I would sneak out of the house sometimes and just like go to her window and like like I'd throw a little pebble at the window and she'd come out which is like but then like we were just like talk in her backyard you know but it was like the act of like that sort of romantic gesture like coming to her in the middle of the night like Romeo and Juliet it was all like yeah it's I I had my first crush but it didn't it felt very performative and not romantic at all but there was something. really sweet about that friendship and, you know, that, like, secret that we had. Yeah. That's so cute. That's really sweet. So, Jesse, you obviously have talked about your bullying experiences, but do you have any, like, sweet, kind of more on the awkward side, embarrassing memories? Oh, God.

Yes. I mean, I've talked about this before, and you might have even seen it in my research, but I was caught stealing porn when I was a very... I didn't come across that. No, I didn't see that. Oh, interesting. I feel like that's the story that everyone always to ask about. But I, you know, I'm a gay person and I was, I, you know, that did not turn up in our research.

I'm going to have to change. Fire the researchers. Yeah, I'm so sorry. I have the wrong person's research in front of me. We thought we were talking to George Clinton. I, yeah, I was, I was, I am gay. And I, when I was a kid, I was looking for, you know, we didn't have the internet. We didn't have the accessibility that we do now.

But I was curious. And so I, the only place I knew where I was to sort of even explore that because I didn't have a lot of friends to talk to about it, really. I would know what I felt comfortable with. And I certainly didn't know any other gay kids at the time. But I would, I would look at magazines. I would go to Hastings Books, Hastings Music and Books in Albuquerque, New Mexico and look at, you know, I'd sneak the porn into like another section of the bookstore. and like look at it. And then I started to be like,

well, I'd need to get this home because I need to take a better look at this. And so I would slip it under my shirt and I would, you know, I very successfully stole quite a bit of material in these things, books. And then one time, I don't know if they were on to me

or if they were watching me on the cameras, but, or if they finally fixed the metal detector. I don't know what happened, but the alarm went off when I left, the store and I got stops and you know they're like well do you have anything in her bag them and you forgot to purchase and I just really shamefully like through tears lifted up my shirt and exposed like these magazines tucked into my waistband and um it was mortifying also because I called my my parents and you know showed them the nature of the material that I had stolen and that was also you know I think

that they knew that I was gay but it was sort of the first time that yeah that we were confronted with, you know, a literal dick. And I think I was also kind of confusing them because it wasn't all just gay pornography. It was like straight as well. I was like, you know, I'm an equal opportunist. I wanted to see like, if all the information is available to me, I want to be able to sure,

I want to make sure I have all the information. So, you know, that was also confusing to them. And I think at some point they're like held on to that. We're like, well, there were a few, you know, non-gay ones in there too. You want more of those? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Less of those, but it was just mortifying. And I had to, you know, show up to meet with a judge and...

Oh, my gosh. Intensed to community service. What? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Wait, wait, how old were you? I was like a freshman in high school. Like 14. Yeah.

Okay, that sounds severe. Yeah. But I guess you were stealing. I think it was severe. I think an example is being made out. out of me. I think that there was, I think that they didn't know how to handle the situation. I think that there was a little, maybe some homophobia around it. I don't know. But the worst part was there was a big window of time between the incident and when it happened. I actually got called in

to have to meet with the judge. Right. A proper court proceeding. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And my mom went to this like rollercoaster of emotions where she was like really upset with me. Then she sort of get over and that she'd just be embarrassed and she'd get upset again and we were in this place where we were like we were okay and it had been like three months since the incident had happened and I was at the courthouse with my mom and it felt like okay I was like she's not angry at me she's not super mad at me and then she she's an OBGYN nurse or was an OBGYN nurse and she ran to one of her patients and was like oh what are you doing here and like my mom was so mortified and she immediately like plunged back into like I'm so angry at you I've never been so angry at you

But that was obviously, you know, a traumatizing and embarrassing. That's the most perfect embarrassing story of her, I think. You're right. It's true. So good. It's true. Yeah. Jesse, obviously, you're a prolific Broadway actor, you're a Tony Award winning Broadway actor.

It turns out Sophie and I have both seen you on Broadway in different plays. And we'll get into that. But the project that brought you onto the world stage is Modern Family. And we want to know, can you walk us through sort of your path to getting that? And then we obviously have some questions related to that. Yeah, of course. It was, I had already been, I had already moved to Los Angeles to do another TV show called The Class, which was a show that I really, really loved, had an incredible cast, John Bernthal, Lizzie Kaplan,

Jason Ritter, Lucy Punch. It was directed by James Burroughs, who, you know, directed all of Will & Grace and Friends. And it was meant to be this big hit. and everyone who was my age wanted to be on that show and it was a really cool thing to be able to get that and it felt very special and I felt like okay this is it I've made it and that show was canceled after a season

and I thought well that was it that was my opportunity I don't see how these big opportunities are going to come around too often and I it just felt like all the all the pieces were there for it to be such a big deal and for it to really fly. And I thought, okay, well, that's the universe telling me that I should just go back and do theater

and that's where I was happy and there's nothing wrong with returning to those routes. I know what I'm doing there. I feel like at home on stage. And I ended up booking another television show that I didn't want to do, but because of the writer's strike that had happened right after the class finished,

I feel like I had to for financial reasons. And I was really not feeling good about this role. It was a gay part, but it was very sort of stereotypical. It wasn't very nuanced. I didn't love the writing. The cast was great. It was with Nisi Nash and Jerry O'Connell, and I was thrilled to meet them. But, like, I just, it didn't feel, having come off of something with such, you know, great scripts

and a wonderful director, I felt like I was really taking steps backwards. And I was really, I was really questioning whether or not I needed to be in L.A. at all. And it was my plan to go back to New York right as soon as this was inevitably going to get canceled. I was like, there's no way that this is going to go. And sure enough, I think they aired three episodes. And like literally like, I think like 50,000 people watched the episode, which is horrible in terms of TV, especially on a major network. And we were the first show canceled that season. I was like, great.

I'm on a plane to New York. And I went back to New York. And I told my manager and agent says, like, I don't want to go do things in L.A. Like, please just send me scripts of things that are going to hate me here in New York. And my manager was like, I know you don't want to see these scripts, but this does shoot in L.A. Just read it and let me know if it's something you might want to go out for. And it was this pilot called My American Family. And I read it in a coffee shop on my iPhone in New York in a snowstorm.

And I was like, oh, I 1,000% have to go in on this show. And they wanted me to come in and audition for the role of Cameron, which was a role that I wasn't drawn to when I was reading the script. I was like, well, I'd love to play this role of Mitchell. It seems much more me. And they just would not see me for it. Really? And so I flew to L.A. and I auditioned for the role of Cameron.

And halfway through the audition, they stopped me and said, we think you're more of a Mitchell and I said, I'm, and they said, would you go into the hallway and look at these sides for this other character and come back in? And I said, no, but I can come back tomorrow and do it because I didn't want to. I didn't want to. I was also nervous that I was not going to be not in right headspace. Like I had prepared to come in for this other character and I was like, I'm going to be nervous. I'm not going to give a good reading. So I really want to like have a fresh start. And I knew they were, you know, actively casting, but I was like, They just started.

They'll be fine. And so I went in the next day, auditioned for Mitchell. And as I was leaving the studio, I got a phone call from my agent saying they want you to test for it, tested for it the next day. And then I got it. I was the first person that they cast, actually. And so that was how it came to me very, very easily. And I think a lot of the reason why I did is because I was so relaxed and I've never been so relaxed on audition. Probably because I was like, I've just came off of the first show canceled of last.

season. I'm happy to go back to New York and excited to go back to New York, really. And so if this happens, and it holds me here in L.A. for a little while longer, that's okay. And I'm cool with it either way. And I think that there was just that sense of relaxation. I wasn't feeling like I had to have this job, even though it was the best script that I'd read in a long time. And I desperately wanted it. Stick around. We'll be right back. all right so um let's just let's just real talk as they say for a second that's a little bit of an aged thing to say now that that that dates me doesn't it um but no real talk uh how important is your health to you know on like a one to 10 and i don't mean the in the sense of vanity i mean in the

sense of like you want your day to go well right you want to be less stressed you don't want it sick when you have responsibilities um i know myself i'm a householder i have uh i have two children and two more on the way a spouse a pet you know a job that sometimes has its demands so i really want to feel like when i'm not getting the sleep and i'm not getting nutrition when my eating's down i want to know that i'm that i'm being held down some other way physically you know my family holds me down emotionally spiritually but i need something to hold me down physically right and so honestly i turn to symbiotica these these these these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with.

The three that I use, I use the, what is it called, the liposomal vitamin C, and it tastes delicious, like really, really good. Comes out in the packet, you put it right in your mouth. Some people don't do that. I do it. I think it tastes great. I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning. really good for gut health and although I don't need it

you know anti-aging and then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8 which is really good for I think mood and stress I sometimes use it in the morning sometimes use it at night all three of these things taste incredible honestly you don't even need to mix it with water and yeah I just couldn't recommend them highly enough

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but I have a pilot-related question. Yeah, go for it. I just want to say my family, before my mom, my mom passed away about 10 years ago, before she passed away, we always had a really hard time finding shows we all like

because my sister, my dad, and I have almost identical taste. And then my mom was like super divergent taste. But we loved modern family. And I remember us all watching the pilot together. My sister called me because she knew you were going to be a guest. She's like, you have to tell them about when we watched the pilot together.

And we were just like hysterically laughing. And I just, we all considered it like one of the best episodes of television we've ever watched. And when we would get together on family vacations, we'd always watch it again together because we just knew we'd laugh so hard. I think we laugh more and more each time we watched it. So it's like a very happy, warm family memory. And I wanted to ask you, like, how did it feel filming it? Like, did you have a special feeling?

Did it feel different? Like, what do you remember about putting that episode together? It felt so different. It felt so special. You know, we filmed it over the course of, I think, 10 days. And Julie Bowen was nine months pregnant with twins. And they were hiding, trying to hide her belly during that. It felt like it felt like they really got the people that they wanted.

because like Ed O'Neill was offered the role but then he turned it down and then something they were going to go after someone else but then it came back to him

it just sort of felt like everyone fell into the parts that they were meant to play like I felt like there was exterior forces that were bringing us together because when we all did come together

it felt like we had known each other for a really long time and I just remember that 10 days when we were filming the pilot we all were just so comfortable and so happy to be working on it And I just, you know, there's also so many things that can go wrong, you know, you could have the wrong director or, you know, this great script could just fall flat because it doesn't translate well to the camera.

And it just felt like every moment of the way it was all going the right way, which definitely made me nervous, too, because I wanted it to be the best version of what it was. But I agree with you that that pilot was so, so well done. And when I finally saw a cut of it, I was like, oh, God, this feels really special. And I don't know if, Penn, if you've ever done this, but like, if you shot something, you're like, oh, can I show you this thing that I shot? And I was like, oh, God, okay.

Yes, yes, we've got to watch this thing that Penn wants to show us. They all sit in front of the TV, and they're like, it's only going to last 30 minutes. Don't worry about it. If it's terrible, we can figure out a way to, like, just say that it was okay. And I remember showing it to several people, and everyone was like, I was, dreading watching this and this is so great this is so great and so I was getting that that feedback from

people who I really trusted and and then I got word when they showed that they did something that is sort of dangerous to do during the upfront which I don't really know if they do upfronts in the same way that they do anymore I don't think they you know yeah where they have all these buyers in a room and you know it's the ABC day and the CBS day and the NBC day it's not just a room it's usually like MSG it's in a theater yeah okay what What did you say? It's in a what? Well, the years that I did the upfronts, I think it was at Madison Square Garden.

Yeah, yeah. No, and they're in huge spaces. So I think we were at Carnegie Hall that year. Okay. And they decided to show the entire pilot of Modern Family to... Wow. You know, normally they show like four or five minutes sizzle reel. But they were like, we're going to show you the entire pilot

of this new show we have called Modern Family. And there was like a collective groan in the audience because all these people are so tired. They just want to like get to lunch. They don't want to speak trapped. a theater for a half hour. I think they did this with the sitcom Joey, the Matt LeBlanc show, and that did not go well. And so I think it was a risky move. And they showed this pilot. And I wasn't there. But the creators, Steve Lovatana and Chris Lloyd were there. And Sarah Highland happened

to be in town for something else. And she snuck in and she watched it from the back of the house. And the laughter that that people, the way that people were responding, to this pilot felt so different and I really wish I could have been in that room to hear all those people laughing because it's you know these TV shows are something you watch in the privacy of your own living room but it's like watch that in a theater with all these people and they it felt it just felt so different and Chris and Steve called us all and said we think we have run to something really special the response was just unlike anything we've ever experienced and that's sort of how it all launched and I look back on that pilot.

and I'm so proud of it. And, you know, sometimes I wish that the show stayed more in those humble roots. Like, you know, it got a little shiny at by season 11. But, like, I just, I love the way that it's sort of a scrappy, wonderful, perfect piece of television. There are some iconic blooper reels of you and Eric Stone Street and Aubrey Anderson, Emmons, who plays Lily, your daughter on the show. I'm sure you've seen them. Have you? Yes.

Yeah, of course. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, they're, they're so good. There's just, like, one example. I think it might have been her first day filming, just in case anybody else hasn't seen them. Her first day filming, and she comes in and says, hey, I saw you on Modern Family.

Yeah, she joined us in season three. So, yeah, her mom had shown her, you know, parts of season one and two, so she'd know who she was working with. So she recognized us. There's so many good moments. like another time when you shove a cupcake into her mouth and she says, do it gently, do it gently. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

So good, but it just made me wonder, like, what was it like to film with such a young child? Oh, my God. It's crazy because now I have a, I have kids myself. And so, you know, I'm looking at my four and a half year old and it's like, wow, Aubrey was already like a year into modern family when she was four and a half.

Yeah, that's wild. And it's wild. And I've, you know, remained very close with her. I've gone to see her school plays, and I had her on my podcast, which was really fun because I just sort of, I really got to grill her about, like, what her early memories of that experience were. But it was really, I felt very protective of her, you know, because she was so young. I was the person, like I said, we, we had babies for the first two seasons, and then they decided that they wanted to hire another actress to take over the role. that would sort of be our permanent lily and um we met with candidates that summer when we were on on hiatus and i was having to be in town so i read with several different you know kids to do this

and it was wild auditioning with three-year-olds like didn't even really know what they were doing and they came in with such like wonderful energy and like they weren't scared or intimidated and Right, of course. Yeah, it was wild. It was wild. And I just remember, I think Aubrey's mother has like a clip of her like practicing the scene before coming into that audition. But she was great. She knew all her lines and she was really fun.

And she was also a kid. So she was, you know, acting chaotic and like, you know, like wanting to lie on the back of the sofa. We auditioned on the set of the set. the of the of the show we brought her into the living room to audition on the set because that was something that she would recognize from seeing it before but she like was lying on the back of the sofa and asking questions about like why there was no roof on that in our apartment and like you know she was just like I actually love that yeah yeah yeah yeah it was really wonderful um and then she was like are you real people because you live in a fake house

and it's like I love these are all such great observations and yeah yeah it was really special having her come on but those first few weeks she was very confused she's like why are we doing this again yeah i was like i was going to be doing it for a few hours actually yeah that's like yeah she andette o'neal were the two that were always wanted to finish up things quickly yeah in those clips you can really see how good you are with her that's just something i i took note of like there's one clip where she says like are you guys going to go to the modern family party later and you're like yeah yeah we're going to go. I'm super excited. Anyway, moving on, but always like entertaining her. And I just thought the relationship between the two of you and obviously Eric as well, so sweet. Yeah. It's a,

it's a relationship and a friendship. I hope I'll always have. It's wild watching her. She's almost getting ready to go to college now. And it's just, it's absolutely bonkers that I've known her that long. What I love so much about modern family is there was space to be real and for there to be dramatic moments and I immediately recognize that even in the pilot even though there's a lot of really funny stuff around it there is a you know my character was going through a big decision about how to reveal that he and his partner have adopted this child from Vietnam and you know his dad is slightly homophobic and you know it's how is he going to take that and I just saw opportunity in the series for me to have the chance to be

to represent a very, or a more grounded version of a gay character and a committed gay, a character that was committed in a relationship, I just saw a great opportunity in that. You know, the previous comedies that I had done, of course, like musical theater before that, but like, you know, I had done a sitcom in front of a live studio audience, which, you know, feels like it's a bit more broad and, you know, you have an audience laughing at you and telling you what's funny in the moment. And then I did that, that same sort of structure with, the next show I did, even though I was not as pleased with the material.

You know, it was, it was, it was, it was very broad comedy. And so to be able to come in and, and really try my hand at something that was more subtle and more real and more grounded was, was really refreshing. And I, I was also such a fan of shows like The Office and Parks and Recreation. And I saw such, I don't know, there was so much potential to bring more than just humor to those types of sitcoms. So when they really are, they can't allow you to go into like more, you know, real moving moments. And when I found out that, you know, they wanted to see my character get married and, you know, we were living in a world where we were fighting. for marriage equality outside that that television studio. I was like, this is so incredible that we can watch these characters go through those

same struggles and we can be a pop culture touchstone for what's happening in the real world. And, you know, when they decided to write a scene where my dad says to me, I just don't understand why you two need to get married, like that really resonated so much with me because my own personal relationship with my father, I had, and he's so supportive and so loving and he was dancing at my wedding and so happy to be there. But he had a struggle with that, you know, from the early moments where he, I was caught stealing pornography to like me becoming gay, be becoming more myself and as a gay man in New York City and, you know, then taking gay roles and being on television. It's like, you know, anyone could tune in and watch me be a gay, be a gay person in their living rooms. Like that was a big thing for him.

It's like, well, that feels very exposing to me. And he had his, he had quite a journey with it. So when we had that episode where Ed O'Neill's characters, my dad was having such difficulty with fully accepting his gay son, I was like, this is such an incredible moment for me to be able to get to play because I can draw from my own experience. I think so many people can relate to this, both as Mitchell and as his father, Jay. and we have the opportunity to really change some hearts with this. And it remains to be those two episodes that were Mitch Camp's wedding remain two of my favorite episodes that we ever got to shoot. And it's because they were grounded in such real emotion.

And they were also hilarious. I mean, I think, you know, Nathan Lane was nominated for an Emmy Award and Elizabeth Banks as well for their roles in those episodes. And because they were hilarious. but it was really the full gamut of emotions. And it also made me grow so much as an artist. Like I look for more projects like that where I can use the full rainbow of like my abilities.

I've probably shared this before, but Penn and I for a period of time had done some research on like media that has a positive impact on like discourses of society. And we looked at some research from the Norman Lear Center and it was particularly on immigration, like the people trying to influence voting in relation to like immigration.

And basically I think they looked at like documentaries versus dramas versus comedies and what was most impactful in changing people's minds were comedies. Like a like I think super what was that sort? Superstore. That's right. Yeah. Superstore. Yeah. Superstore versus Madam Secretary.

I don't remember what the other one was was like the most impactful. Like that's when people took the most action and like changing their vote, changing their minds. Like they're the most receptive to a comedy grappling with it. Because they don't want it to feel like medicine, you know. I think you can get so, you can, you can, really change minds and hearts when you come at something with comedy and with humor and with a lighthearted touch and with relatability. That's the other thing. It's like a lot of these

characters are in people's living rooms and they feel like they know them. And I just, I feel like really people really do respond to entertainment when it feels like it's not being obviously shoved down their throats. And comedy is a great vessel for that. And I think people love comedy characters more than any like what shows do you watch again and again very few people even if they love a drama very few people will rewatch a drama again and again but like people will rewatch friends again and again modern family again and again like you just love those characters so much so you're more open to them yeah we all like to laugh yeah when i was in middle school yeah my family went to new york we're visiting my aunt and my sister has always been super into musical

theater she ended up going to a conservatory and got her degree in musical theater but she was always like rallying our family around musical theater and around whatever musical she was into. And we went and saw the 25th annual Putnam County Spelling Bee with the original cast with you in it. And it, I mean, it really stuck with us. And I was just talking about it with her yesterday. And she was talking about how how blown away she was at the time and still is that adults could play such moving, heartbreaking and hilarious and like compelling children. And I agreed with her, but then I also went and, because, you know, I was young at the time and, and, you know, you're far away. But I went and watched like a YouTube clip of you and your facial expressions.

You're such a kid. And you do it so well. And I was wondering, like, how, how did you do that? You're an actor, obviously. But I feel like that's a very particular role to take on. there was adults playing children and audience participation are two things like if I know that that's what's going to happen in a play I'm like get me the fuck out of here I don't want to see it I don't want to be a part of it no I don't want it and we had both of those things in spelling

be adults playing children and then we had some audience members on the stage who would fill out the spellers and I was like oh god I don't have to be dealing with we're not to be playing a child as an adult and then sitting like literally right next to audience members like it's just this is going to be a disaster of course it wasn't and it was fine but like i think we that the show went through several different stages where you know we were trying to figure out that level of like how far to take it especially with adults playing kids and you know before when we were putting the show together and we probably didn't have the greatest director in charge um you know we were just sort of all just left to our devices.

We were really lucky that the incredible director, James Lepine, who directed, you know, into the woods and Sunday in the park with George, and he's one of Stephen Sondheim's greatest collaborators. He joined the production when it moved to New York, and he was catching up. He was, he didn't, he wasn't part of the early workshop. So he made us all drop our affectations for the first, few weeks of rehearsal and and then we would have to bring in very specific things from our own childhood to the rehearsal process and he would start letting us he would start allowing us to

layer on some of these different nuances but he wanted them always to be grounded in reality and it never wanted for us to look like we were adults playing children he wanted it to be the truth led if we lead everything with the truth and um and so that i think that really deepened a lot of those performances um and it's it's so interesting because i've now seen the show's about to celebrate it's like 20th or 25th anniversary or something and i've seen other productions of it now i've seen kids do it i've seen adults do it there was a big production of it at the um the kennedy center in washington dc where they had like an all-star cast to do it and it was just really wild um but I think that's the success of all these productions is that ingrained in it is it's it's all

about the outsider and and embracing your inner child and I think when when people who take the show and can do that do that it's successful and I'm so I'm so proud of that show I was so thrilled to be a part of it yeah and we'll be right back in the late 90s in early 2000s, Asian women were often reduced to overtly sexual and submissive caricatures. The geishas of the book turned film memoirs of a geisha, the lewd twins in Austin Powers, and pinup goddess Sunghili. Meanwhile, the girls next door were always white. Within that narrow framework, Kyla Yu internalized a painful conclusion. The only way someone who looked like her could have value or be considered beautiful and desirable was to sexualize herself.

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Jesse, you have a podcast called Dinner's On Me and we've all listened to it. But for our listeners who don't know anything about it, can you walk them through the premise and recommend an episode to start if they wanted to. to sort of jump in. Gosh. Well, it's, it's, it is, what is it? I take people out to a meal. I take someone that I admire. They're usually someone I already know,

so that that's nice because it's a friendship I already have. But I take them out to a meal. We go to a restaurant in the, and in real life, it's a real life restaurant, usually a working restaurant with other people in it, other civilians. Do people gawk? Like, how do they react? Sometimes.

Sometimes they're a little, take it aback. But, you know, they, we find a quiet corner. We set up our microphones. and we have we have a meal and you hear the waiter come to the table and take our orders and we we have a meal and have a great conversation and that's what the episode is and I've had some incredible incredible guests everyone from Chelsea Clinton and to you know Lisa Kudrow to Nathan Lane who I was just speaking about earlier who's a guest star on Modern Family Jesse Williams I I have so many episodes that I absolutely love Margo

Martindale's episode is one of my favorites, just because I did this film, Cocaine Bear with her and fell in love with her on set. And we just have a really great time sort of breaking down that time we got to spend together. The Lisa Kudrow episode is really, really wonderful. Sophia Vigara, at O'Neill, some of my modern family castmates have been on it. It's really fun, I think, for people to listen to the modern family episodes because we obviously have a shorthand between the two of us. And we talk, you know, I've had Sarah Highland on, and Ed O'Neill and Sophia and Nolan Gould and Aubrey, my daughter, I'm about to have Ty Borel on.

Oh, exciting. But there's a nice shorthand between us, but also it's fun to sort of hear us talk about things that the audience wouldn't necessarily think that we talk about, you know. But it's fun for them to also listen to us, just interact as friends because, you know, we have 11 years of history together. And there's a lot of things that people don't know about those friendships.

Yeah. I feel like the premise of the podcast is, genius. Like, you really did carve out a niche within the podcast, interview, celebrity interview space, which is hard to do. We would know. But I, like, how did you come up with that idea? Were there other ideas floating around? Or was this always the one? I was actually working on doing a podcast with someone else. It was going to be me and her. And we pitched this idea to Sony. It was about relationships. Someone I really, really love so much.

I was excited to do it with her. And Sony ended up passing on the project, but then coming back to me because they knew I had had a background in the culinary world. And they were trying to figure out a podcast in the culinary space. And so they presented me with a few ideas. One of them was dinners on me. Another one was me actually having people over and cooking for them and having... Way too much work.

That has a lot of work. Way too much work. I cannot. I mean, a podcast is already so much work. Come on. Right? Then I'm going to cook on top of it. Are you going to double the feet?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I'm so happy. I nixed that idea. But this is perfect. It's been really wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, I just get to show. And also, I get to try some restaurants that I've been wanting to try for a really long time.

And I get to showcase chefs and establishments that I love. We've mostly shot in Los Angeles in New York. We're about to shoot an episode in Salt Lake City with Ty Burrell. And then I'm working in London doing a play in a few months. We're going to take the podcast across the pond and do some episodes in London, which is really exciting. So I do love that part of it that. I get to sort of celebrate these restaurants, these chefs, and the food world, which I admire so greatly. Yeah, when I first heard it, I thought there's that lovely kind of multidimensional aspect to it where it's, well, you just said it better than I could.

Just the way that you're supporting these chefs, the concepts around their food, I really like that. yeah yeah i had i had some some pod jealousy i thought well you get to go to a restaurant it just it just it just it just set up that's that sounds really lovely it is nice i mean there is you know the driving time that it takes to get there and like i i just we recorded with jane lynch and we went up to montecito to work to have a meal with her so you know i was in the hour i was a car for an hour and a half but it was great it was a wonderful day trip and it's like a destination, which I think is actually very cool. Yeah, for sure, for sure. Well, we do have a final question. Wait, wait, no, I have one more question before your final question.

Okay. I have to ask. Okay, I think this was, whenever folklore was released, there was someone tweeted, you know, Taylor Swift had that song, Last Great American Dynasty. Someone tweeted like, Jesse Tyler, they're sort of like dream cast if she ever made that a music video. And I just wanted, I'm just going to steady your face. I've always hoped that she's turning that into a movie. She has a deal with Searchlight. And I'm just going to steady your face. is something in the works could you possibly be starring in a last great American dynasty

adaptation? Less affectation. Remember, go back to your child. There's a little bit of a lease coming through. Oh, God. I mean, wouldn't that be fun? I think she's going to be a really great director. I don't know.

I mean, well, I wonder what she is going to direct. Does anyone know what her first project is? No. Okay, this is what I read. Just that it's low budget, which I thought was surprising, and that she's fully written the script and she's directing it.

I think it is a Rebecca Harkness thing. That's just my wild theory, but... I mean, it's got to be something involved with something she's already put out there. Because she likes her little Easter eggs. Why did she write that song? Why did you put it out? Correct. Yeah, correct.

No, I think that there's obviously... Yeah. I mean, I haven't... No one's called me. Okay. All right. You'll invite us to the premiere. No.

Yeah. He's telling the truth. He's telling the truth. So we do have a classic last question. If you could go back to 12-year-old Jesse, what would you say? or do um i wouldn't shoplift i would just uh put the magazine back um i i think i would encourage myself to just gosh i mean it i i just feel like when i was a kid i i protected myself so much And I didn't necessarily find a comfort and ease within myself.

And I think that made things harder than it needed to be for me. I think that I wish that I could have, first of all, I think all of us wish that we could go back and be like, it's going to be okay. I think that's just a classic answer. It is. But it really was okay. And I think so many of the things that made it okay for me were the things that I was hiding from other people. and I guess I wish that I could have said

you don't have to worry so much about hiding those things and you can be more authentically yourself now and you're going to be taken care of. Yeah. Sweet. Thank you so much, Jesse.

It was so nice to meet you. Nice to be you all too, yeah. Thank you. I'm jealous that you get to do this with other people. Yeah, it is nice. Yeah. We both have things to be jealous. us of the food. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. You can listen to Jesse Tyler Ferguson's podcast, Dinner's On Me, everywhere you get your podcasts and follow him online at Jesse Tyler.

Podcrushed is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navacavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency. Special thanks to the folks at La Manada. And as always, you can listen to Podcrush ad-free on Amazon music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye. I don't think we've ever met, have we? I don't think we have. I'm excited. Yeah, thank you for coming on.

It's weird because you're like 10 years younger than me, but I also feel like I grew up watching you. Is that really? How does it feel? That's an honor. Yeah, gossip pro, yeah.