Podcrushed - Jharrel Jerome

Episode Date: March 22, 2023

We kick things off in Season 2 with the phenomenal, Emmy-award-winning actor Jharrel Jerome (When They See Us, I'm a Virgo). He shares about why he almost missed his audition for a little Oscar-winning project called Moonlight, why breaking someone else's heart meant breaking his own, and why projects that speak to the culture are so important to him. Follow us on socials! TwitterTikTokInstagram See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada Lemonada That was I swear I could do that better but that's the one we'll keep I love that we don't need David anymore I think that's like you going through hitting puberty in the middle of that song

is what we just experienced The crescendo. Yeah, well, then it's on brand, isn't it? Welcome to Season 2 of Pod Crushed. I think what I'm going to do is I'll be quiet for the next 30 minutes because there is not possibly another piece of content that you want to see my stupid face or hear my stupid voice in. I feel like for the last seven weeks,

my face and voice has just been used up. It's just been used up. Rung dry. I saw there was somebody tweeted at me like a few weeks ago. can this douche please shut up and I was just like I really understand you I hear you

I agree mostly this resonates for me yeah this really red this this hits different this tweet hits different oh man well not everyone feels that way there is I actually want to lend a little momentum to this little indie movement that's burgeoning

there's a listener of the show I'm not going to say your name but not a fan of me and Sophie and she has a little hashtag going Hashtag needs new hosts and I want to help her out because I think a better hashtag would be hashtag pen needs new folks.

Yeah, because if you want to support that movement. The way the hashtag is, it could be any of us. Exactly. The whole show needs new hosts? No, she means you need new hosts. Like you're doing great. Sophie and I really bringing down that.

I did ask her kind of in a tongue-in-cheek way. I said, are you gunning for the position? I responded to her and she said, yes, I would be a great host We should have it on. Speaking to which, we do have a new format this season. So if, why don't you take it away? Yeah, so this season is a little bit different.

We will not have stories at the end of the episode. But don't worry because we know you love those stories. And we actually have decided to give those stories more airtime. And we are having special extra episodes that are centered entirely on stories. And we'll be talking to guests, we'll be talking to experts and pod crushers and lots of different people. It's going to be good fun. And as always, we'll be posting highlights and behind-the-scene clips from our conversations on our socials. Follow us at Podcrushed on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, we have a YouTube channel.

So check us out there. Okay. You know, I could do this all day because I love bantering with you. But I think we need, we probably need, for the sake of our guests, sorry, our listeners. listening guests. We want to get to our interview guest. We have Jarrell Jerome. He is an actor, a rapper. He could call him a multidisciplinary artist, a renaissance man from New York City, born and raised, which is a lovely thing. We talk about that a bit. He blew me away. He blew everybody away. He got an Emmy for it with his iconic performance as one of the exonerated five, Corey Wise, in Ava DuVernay's When They See Us on Netflix. He got his start with another iconic and memorable role as Kevin in the Oscar-winning feature film, Moonlight. He's got a burgeoning career as a rapper And a few other really exciting projects coming out this year I'm a Virgo

Which is a Boots Rally project And Steven Soderberg's full circle So you know, Jarrell's about to be real hot I think again, you know, for the second or third time This was a very thoughtful and very deep conversation Usually we like to keep it on the surface But he just had to go there He knew what the show was about

And he wanted to go there right from the jump So we're going to dig into it right after the break Welcome Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava and I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Which means we can't wait to steal your boyfriend. Bye. That's good. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom, does this with food that actually engages

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My dogs are like my children, literally, which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best. Hold on. Let me start again because I've only been talking about Louie. Louis is my bait. Louie, you might have heard him growl just now. Louie is my little baby and I'm committed to only giving him the best. I love that Nom Nom's recipes contain wholesome nutrient rich food, meat that looks like meat and veggies that look like veggies because, shocker, they are.

Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lamb-peelaf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with NomNum available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trinom.com slash podcrushed, spelled trinom.com slash podcrushed. A 15-year-old girl who chewed through a rope to escape a serial killer. I use my front teeth to saw on the rope in my mouth. He's been convicted of murdering two young women, but suspected of many more.

Maybe there's another one in that area. And now, new leads that could solve. these cold cases. They could be a victim that we have no idea he killed. Stolen voices of Dull Valley breaks the silence on August 19th. Follow us now so you don't miss an episode. You were the you were the, and this is like not any shade to our other guests at all, like at all. You were the first one when Navajo told me, I was like, yes. Are you kidding? Yes. Yeah, he's not like that. No, Tudjec, let me think about it or no I'm very honored to be here

Like I told you outside when we just met I'm a huge fan of you And I don't just say that Like Lightly I watched you late So I saw it when three seasons Had already been out

So I got to binge watch The first three seasons all at once Oh that's cool And that was really cool for me You actually really got the vision The whole world Yeah which you maybe can't appreciate When you're first seeing

Yeah and you're waiting around For what's next and stuff like that so I got to kind of see it all in one and probably over a weekend and there aren't many TV shows that I love for some reason and it's the main I think the main reason is because if the main actor the main character doesn't draw throughout the entire season there's just a point where I'm kind of like all right yeah it's cool it's cool it's cool but you were able to carry that show on your back the entire way and there's just something special with the nuances in your face man and the way you will moat such simple feelings and simple thoughts

on top of your narration no better narration your voice is great man and it's authentic so i just say that now yeah no i mean that really means a lot it really means a lot of course i um you started to make waves and have these incredible opportunities quite young i mean from what i understand i mean you know moonlight was you were 16 i was 18 okay well wikipedia can uh could do us some more favor. Probably, probably. Felt 16, though. Yeah, well, you were playing young, as we all do.

I was 16 in the film. Yes, 18 shooting. Okay. Kind of had to be the whole legal stuff. Of course, no, I get that, actually, because I was working when I was 12, and I get all that. Yeah. But so you, and you went to LaGuardia. Yes.

Right? So I'm tracking back. So Moonlight is like, you get out of LaGuardia and you're doing. Fresh out of LaGuardia. Wow. So you're just like already. I'm in college now, but just the start of it, freshman year. So I went to Ithaca, upstate New York.

Okay. So I wanted a state. in New York, but I wanted to get away from the city. So I was five hours away doing acting BFA. And I got moonlight in October of my freshman year. So just a month after I had started college. So my manager, who I'm still with to this day, she saw me on stage in high school when I was a senior in a play.

So by the time I had graduated, we were in conversation about me just going off to school and she'll send me self-tapes. So it wasn't this serious, like sign this contract. You're going to work with me. Don't go to school. It was have fun, go to school, study. And I'm just going to toss you auditions. And if you want to put yourself on tapes, send it back.

And so I did maybe 10 solid auditions. Wow. Like 10 tapes were... Which for people listening, that's not a lot. That's not a lot to be landed. Mind you, I did do a ton after. Sure, sure, sure. Now, I'm not saying you haven't paid your dues.

I'm just saying, you know, you came out of... At the time, though, yes, absolutely. it was too quick. It felt too quick almost. But yeah, I had auditioned for Moonlight on the day of my 18th birthday. Wow, man. October 9.

Happy birthday. Thanks, October 9 and it was a Friday in college. Wow. My first Friday in college for my birthday. It was a good weekend, we'll say. It's a great weekend, but that's all to say the audition, I almost didn't do it because I woke up.

I had class at first, and it's my birthday. feeling all these things like excitement for the night and stuff just a little distracted and it was around 3 p.m. when I remembered the audition. Oh man. And it was and and this is a crazy story. It was insane. Yeah. And so I remembered that I had to do the audition and I didn't like I didn't want to get any audition and not send it back especially because um my manager peri Kipperman shout out she believed in me so much and she was just sending me these projects like no do it do it. I think you can get into these. So I didn't want to get one and be like, Sorry, I didn't make, I didn't make the time to do that.

That's an incredible ethic, dude. Regardless. So, I did the tape in my dorm room with my friend. I just asked them after class to come, and we shot the tape for moonlight in my dorm room. I sat on the floor. I remember, I had stuff everywhere. And I remember, I'm not going to get this, because I'm just in this room. But I did it, and I think what it was was that I, I don't know if I'm letting out tricks and secrets,

but I did this, I did a whole pantomiming thing, which I remember. remember learning not to do in auditions don't overdo the whole like mom stuff but i did the scene where i was smoking on the beach so i pretended like i was rolling a joint the whole the whole scene and i remember barry jenkins telling me later like that was tight that you just sat there on your dorm room and was just it just felt human and felt real and that's what he was looking for so i got so lucky the week after the ninth the week after my birthday i got a call from um parry and she was like yeah you got it and i remember thinking which one because i had done 10 so i remember thinking well which one and she was like moonlight you're going to miami in three days and you're gonna shoot

for 11 days and then you're just going to go back to school wow and so when i shot it i didn't know it'd be what it you know ended up being yeah so so let's also let's also let's also let's freeze there and back up too because because so you had you had an i dream about um and it's a fantasy by the way i know it's not real, but I dream about having this sort of formative experiences that you and other people going to LaGuardia have. By the way, my wife went to LaGuardia. I do know people who have gone to LaGuardia. Really? Yeah. Yeah.

We talked about it in our interview with her. I know. I was like, oh, so we're not paying attention to any of the shows. I'm famously just lose... It's all good. No, it's fine. It's fine. I'm not a fan of she's on here. You're from New York, too, though, right? You're from New York, right? Not from. So, I've lived there for 16 years.

I was born in the East Coast and lived in the East Coast, and then also west. So I've moved around so much. New York is definitely home. Yes. My stepson was born there. He's 14 now. Okay.

So my family is New York. You know, my son, my two and a half year old, he's born and raised in New York. So it's our family, but it's like I don't feel like I can say New York the way that I think you can. Right. Right. So let's just back up a little bit. You, in eighth grade, from what I understand, is when you started, you're in your first play. Yeah.

So that's, if you know, if you feel comfortable, like, I'm interested in what got you into that at that age, because that is what we're talking about. And I also know what it's like to really start to more seriously pursue your art at that age. So, like, just paint a little bit of a picture for us. That's what we always like to have guests to. Like, just a little bit of a picture of who you were, how you saw the world, what you felt like you wanted to become, and then what happened when you started acting. so I had no idea about acting or the film world at all growing up because no one in my family came from that

so I'm from the Bronx I grew up in a household of 10 so I grew up with my mom my dad my sister my cousins my aunt my uncle and my grandparents all in one house so how I grew up was very very family oriented I had a very strict upbringing Dominican my father's Haitian

so I grew up uh yeah Caribbean style upbringing as well as they were young when they had me very young so it was just this tight-knit

I mean when I was born my grandfather was maybe 44 wow that's kind of amazing so that he was the oldest in the house and you had babies running around so it was a young group of people in a house just trying to work and make money and get up out of there

and so that's how I grew up until by the time I was eight my family started to disperse, you know, my mom started getting older and, you know, my mom and dad were like, we got to get out of here. And so we moved to another part of the Bronx. My cousins moved down to Florida. My grandparents stayed in the home, you know, and things like that. So we started to break apart. And by the time I was in eighth grade, I was just living with my mom, my dad, and my sister.

And I wanted to be a lawyer or a doctor. That's it. That was the only two options for me. And was that, like, longstanding? Was that impressed on you in childhood? Yeah, that was just, yeah, if you're going to be a lawyer. That was just, yeah, if you're going to do something, do that. Do that.

Yeah. Because what else? I mean, it wasn't sports for me. I wasn't athletic. I was athletic. I played baseball and basketball, but I'm 5'8. So that's stopped at some point. By the time I was 15, I was like.

And so, um, eighth grade, I also went to a Catholic school. So I grew up Catholic and I grew up with a lot of, I was very good in school. I was a very good kid. And as opposed to like some of the friends that. I hung around with and the people around me who just, they didn't have their father or they didn't have, you know, I was raised by, quote, unquote, my stepdad, but he raised me as I was two. So that's my, that's my father, you know. And so he, I got to have that kind of well-rounded come home to my sister and my mom and dad, to the cooking, to them being like, how school, are you doing good? Because if you're not, you know, you know, that ass type of stuff, you know. And so I'm always appreciative of that. Long story short, when I was in the eighth grade and deciding on where to go to high school, I didn't want to go to my zone school. I didn't want to stay in my area with the kids that were kind of running around doing all these, like, I heard about fights and I heard about jumpings and all these

just random violence that would happen when I'm in the eighth grade about the high schools that I was scouting. And I just remember thinking, I finally got in two fights in my life at the time. And I would hate to be that one really scrawny kid. at these really tough high schools. And I think I just, I don't remember how the conversation went, but I went to my mom and I told her this. And I just was vulnerable with her. And I was like, I'm scared to go to high school around here.

And she was like, well, you should audition for performing art schools throughout the city. Because you can go to school in the city and it would be free. Because the problem with going to school outside my zone was that we'd have to pay something. And so the performing art school is my mom's clever way of, saying you can go out of the Bronx and we don't have to pay for anything. So, but it really, so like it wasn't, it wasn't

otherwise on her radar, even, so maybe it wasn't on yours, but even she didn't think, like, oh, he's maybe got the spirit of a performer? No, she thought that I had a spirit. Okay, and that's actually, you know what, that's what it was. Yes, exactly. She thought that I was a clown, a class

clown. And I was, I was the performer at the family events. I was the one making up a dance. I was the one who was like, look, I got this rap for you because I was rapping my whole life too since I was like nine I was trying to rhyme something with something

so by the time I was 12, 13 my mom is like well you have this like yeah like you said she didn't necessarily say you're going to be an actor but she was like I think if you go

and try to audition for these schools you can do something even if it wasn't acting go dance go try to dance go try to sing I don't even sing but she was like go try to get into those schools

so what was that audition like insane. So we go on the computer and we Google performing our schools in the city. LaGuardia pops up, PPS, Tylan Limited, and Frank Sinatra. Those are the names of four prominent performing arts schools.

So then we go into the website and we see that you have to do two monologues. I didn't even know what a monologue was. I thought that was like a disease or something. It's like monologue and then we Google monologue you're performing by yourself. You just got to do this. It's really lines by yourself. You had to do

opposing ones, dramatic and comedic. That was the point. And so, me and my mom went to the Lincoln Center Library and just like a day after school for me and a day after work for her and we went into the city, which was big for me at the time. Like, just getting on the train and going into the city was cool because that was luxury. Yeah, and that's like the cultural center right there. You're going to Lincoln Center. I mean, I went there the other night

for a show with my wife and I felt the same way then. I'm like, this city is still so amazing. It's beautiful. It's so beautiful. And that specific area, too, Lincoln Center and Juilliard. It's very inspiring. Yeah, Fordham, that whole area is super. Everything is architecturally beautiful, and the lights are like this, like, glow all the time. So I remember when I got there, everything was, like, larger than life.

And I'm just in this library looking for monologues with my mom. And we didn't know what we were doing, but we were just kind of flipping through. And I got it wrong because I was supposed to do monologues from an actual play. But we just, we found a book that said, Teenage, monologue for boys. No, that's for young boys. So it was, it's very specific. And it was a set of monologues that were just written from, like, they weren't from

any plays. They were just a set of monologues for young boys. Based on theme, I guess. Based on theme, exactly. This is the dramatic section. Here's some dramatic monologues. And honestly, that's a cool book, to be honest. Like, really cool book.

It was, like, well enough written. You took stuff from that? Yeah, I picked my two monologues came from that book. You have to write the forward to that. I remember it was a green but I wish I could I gotta find the book again But I opened the first page

And the first monologue I loved Which is probably dumb But I loved it and was like I'm gonna do this one It was a comedic one And the comedic one was me Going up to a bully in school And telling him I'm not afraid of you I'll beat you up

I'll fight you right now I'm gonna But at the end he's just like Shaking And he's like And if my mother did not need me for dinner Right now it'd go down and he runs off at the end

and so I remember picking that one and then the dramatic one was approaching my best friend's mother at my best friend's funeral and I remember thinking well that's so sad I didn't know like it just felt sad so I went and I practiced it by myself

just for hours weeks weeks weeks ready for the audition because it was they did each different school had an audition on different days and the auditions were insane. I show up and there's probably 7,000, 8,000 kids

just from the whole city. And at this point as you're practicing these monologues in your room by yourself, are you thinking are you still thinking like I'm doing this so that I can go to school outside of the Bronx and get a different experience? Or are you thinking now like actually kind of like this? Yes, exactly. Yeah, that's a good

point. I didn't think about that. I started just falling in love with it immediately and just when I learned the lines and I was the mirror trying it and I did it from my mom and my dad and they were like laughing that's funny that's funny that's good and I just remember thinking well this is fun and ultimately I would have gone to a school by me if I had to like it wasn't such a deep deep fear where I'm like you got to get me here but it was it was like hey if we can avoid if we can avoid it it'd be great you know um so well it sounds like this was your calling like

maybe your spirit, Neo, you know? So, my mom, before the audition, she booked one acting class for me because they were like $150 in the city or something like that. So she booked one acting class where I did one-on-one with a coach. I'll never forget her. Her name is Mimi. She's somewhere out there. I never seen her since.

But Mimi's the first person, right? I sat down and she did this exercise where she was like, show me your angry face. I just show her my angry face. Show me your happy face. Show her my happy face. Show me your excited face, these things, right? and then she gave me this set of lines

and she was like read this like this okay now read it as if you were in a breakup okay now read it as if you were cold outside and read it as if you you got a paper cut like random things and I did that for an hour with her and I didn't know what I was doing

I was just doing what she was saying and that was my first time being directed ever and I was just going going going when I left the class she pulled my mom to the side and she told my mom something and I wish I knew it where for where my mom probably knows it but my mom started to get emotional and she came up to me

and she was like, she's very proud of you and she was like, you're good and just got on the train, went home and then I auditioned for the schools and I got into all four of them it was nice it was nice I got into all

I got into all four of them and they were brutal like the LaGuardia audition was I had three of them. The first one was nine hours long. Wow. And there was 8,000 kids, and we were, like, grouped in our boroughs. So I was with the Bronx kids.

Yeah. And there's, like, 500 of us. And I sat there on this chair in their hallways, waiting, waiting, waiting, sliding down, sliding down, sliding down, sliding down. And your heart's probably like... What? I didn't even know the feeling. I didn't know. And I was hilarious.

I was in this, like, these khakis and these boat shoes and this, like... She was like corduroy sweater that my mom got me from cookies. You guys ever heard of cookies? It's a department store. New Yorkers are no cookies. We went to cookies and we bought this whole like get up and this whole thing. And I remember sitting just in that chair and honestly I felt good. I felt like this is cool.

Like I'm, what else could I be doing right now in this moment besides sitting on this chair waiting to audition for this? And so, yeah, I auditioned for it. they gave me like a callback than another callback which is crazy for a high school if you think about it. It is actually.

This is what the industry feels like already. So it's, they gave me a call back than another call back and then I had an interview with the head of the department. And is that typical? So I found out

when I got into the school if they really want you they bring you all the way to that. I don't know about the interview thing though. I don't know how that worked there's a whole, I don't know. It's just a pretty, that sounds. It's very rigorous.

They emulate the Juilliard curriculum, and they try to make you feel that from the moment you walk into that building. If you want this, you've got to work for this. And it stayed that way the whole four years I was there. Wow. And you're 14 at this point? No, I was young. I was 12. I turned 13 freshman year in high school.

I have a late birthday. Wow. So I was 12 years old. That's a lot to be going through at 12. It's very intimidating. Little me going to high school at 13. You're 13, yeah. 13.

I was a different story. Now we don't have any sympathy at all. I was a teenager. You deserved it. Yeah, it's whatever. Imagine? No, but I was 13 throughout all of this. And then I, same thing.

I auditioned for PPAS, Frank Sinatra, and talent unlimited. And I got into all four. Yeah, we got just like this envelope day after day. What made you pick LaGuardia? The name. Yeah. It's a good thing. It's like, I was like,

LaGuardia sounds like the best one. Did you know anything about the history at that point? Did you know fame was about? Yeah, yeah. And I guess that's what I mean by the name as well. The name of it, the alumni list, they put it all up in your face. Deservingly. It's like this is what we've, I mean, Robert De Niro, Al Pacino, Nikki Minaz, you know, this is just.

Jarrell Jarrell, you know, there's a great list of actors and performers from all scopes that come out of that school. And I remember that it was just, I mean, that was so appealing for me for not knowing anything about. the craft. I just know if they can get those people to do it, then maybe they can get me to do it. So at this point, are you really thinking, like, it's been a short period of time. Are you thinking, I'm going to make movies? At that time? Yeah. No. I was thinking theater. Ah, okay. Because that's what I really fell in love with first was theater, because that's what I got thrown into with the school with LaGuardia. It's a theater program. So they'll have a film class when you're a junior but it's all it's it's about

Shakespeare and plays and musicals and being able to perform in front of a large audience because they're trying to get you to Juilliard which will get you to Broadway as opposed to out here you'll go somewhere that'll get you to a film school that'll get you to Hollywood I don't know how it works but it is something like that. It doesn't quite work

the same way out here out here right right so New York those performing our schools they're not trying to get you into Hollywood as much as they're trying to get you into Broadway and then if you choose the Hollywood path you're kind of on your own That's interesting because I do yeah okay that makes sense because it is so theater oriented all the types of performance are so live and they did kind of depend on that and there's something that was very esteemed about that which I get but then you know I mean you do have like some of their most touted names are like serious film actors. Yeah because if you can study theater to its core and learn that it'll translate well in film I don't think vice versa I don't think you can just be born into film and be this film actor for years and then

and try to go to stage and give off that same. There's something about being able to start big and go small, you know. And so that's what theater was for me, was learning all the little intricacies of big. And then by time film set had, like being on a film set, it ended up being a lot easier to just kind of go smaller. Because I learned projection. I learned being loud.

I learned ignore the audience, which is also ignore the camera, you know. And there's so many things that ended up going hand in in. What was really cool about LaGuardia is that when you're a senior, they do a senior showcase. So, out of the 100 kids in the drama department, they make you audition, which is crazy because you're auditioning again while you're in the school. And they pick 12 people to show, to do a showcase. And in the showcase, they invite agents and managers throughout New York. And these agents and managers come looking for the next 17-year-old who's really good. that was that was the pressure of that showcase

and I remember they talk about showcase all the way from freshman year you're a freshman thinking about I need to get into show oh man yeah yeah yeah yeah you're a freshman thinking about I need to get into showcase when I'm a senior so the environment is so intense that by the end of the whole process of the four years

most of your friends don't want to act anymore that's the thing because you're choosing at 13 like I want to ring you out yeah you're 13 you're young I'm curious I want to act oh I got in fun I'm doing it but then you realize the intense amount of work that goes along with it because mind you yeah LaGuardia is tough on these kids but I think necessarily because it's the industry is brutal and so those so they're trying to emulate it in a way you know it's it's tough but it works I think if you care about it enough because they're trying to find out who's really

passionate about it because that's the thing about me I never gave up on it I wanted showcase so bad I wanted to be in the musicals I wanted to do it I wanted to be there every single day as opposed to maybe like my friend next to me who was like man whatever i'm done with it and we'll be right back all right so um let's just let's just let's just real talk as they say for a second that's a little bit of an aged thing to say now that that dates me doesn't it um but no real talk uh how important is your health to you you know on like a one to 10 and i don't mean the in the sense of vanity i mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want to get sick. When you have

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are a big thing when they're happening. In that environment, it sounds to me like there's already a lot of anxiety, there's already a lot of pressure. Oh, my God. Is there... You know, high school and middle school are these like grounds for kids kind of like, all their

hormones and pheromones and all the other moans. They're just like, they're just, they're just, they're just, they're just, you know what I mean? They're just like, that's cranked up. So where, so how is that expressing itself maybe around you or for you? Because you were also a bit younger, which by the way, when I, background on me, anybody who listens, knows. I didn't even complete middle school because I was, I came, I moved to L.A. And I started working in television and films. So I didn't even really go to high school, but I had a little snippet of it.

And so I was younger. So I was younger. I was about 13 for like four weeks in high school. high school and the prospect of all these kids were like learning to drive and they were asking each other out to

I guess prom or homecoming maybe homecoming because prom is for older kids right the Sadie Hop is that what that Homecoming probably Sadie Hawkins no this wasn't

1940 it was actually 2003 or 2003 or 2002 2001 that's funny so yeah so tell us a little bit about

like if you feel comfortable sharing your first first heartbreaker, one of those kind of formative like... Yeah, first love, first heartbreak. Oh, man. Yeah. You don't have to name names.

No, I definitely won't do that. It's funny because I am I'm a lover. Like, I'm a romantic at its best and worse. I think I am hopeful as much as I'm hopeless at it, you know, and it's funny for you to ask me

that because after like just my journey of love and my different relationships that I've been a part of having really thought about the first time in a long time. And so my first heartbreak was because I broke her heart. That was my first time where I felt incredibly sad in love. And it came from my 15-year-old mistake. You know, and so I was in, I was in my, I guess my first serious relationship and we were together for most of my sophomore year and I yeah I cheated and I got with another girl from another like department dance major and I guess experiencing this whole because

that's always been my problem is that I am just like every other guy where I you know I I have these feelings and these hormones and I want to chase them but I am a lover and I like relationships relationships and so what I'm a lot better by the way these days okay this isn't still going on this isn't let me look at the camera this isn't still going on and so um and so yeah I think I think just going through that's always been my my downfall is that is that I don't think I've ever been ready for any relationship I've gone into but I've dove into him. And the first time I did it was in high school,

was when I was 15. And, um, yeah. Did that stay with you? Like, you know, after you broke her heart,

what were sort of the, what was the ripple after that? Yeah, it stayed with me. I mean, it's just this, I've realized that I'm not this like, I can't just make a mistake

and be like, what made a mistake, moving on. Like, I make a mistake and it kills me. And, it like eats me up so much and so I told her that I did it like I went up to her in tears like I did this and um yeah I just it's just causing my own trauma is exhausting and it's kind of what

I'm doing is creating my own mess and creating my own sense of trauma because now to me that's a traumatic experience is yeah is having to have dealt with her hurting somebody deeply and trying to make amends or just putting it in a box and being like, damn, I messed that up, moving on. It's a sense of trauma for me as opposed to the opposite where maybe there's a girl who went up to, or cheated on me or a girl who was like treating me badly. I've never experienced that. I've experienced a lot of love and I've experienced a lot of honest, genuine love.

And I have messed it up. I've messed it up multiple times. And so I'm at a point of my life. currently where I'm trying to really not end up in that position anymore. And that is spending serious time to myself. Yeah. Yeah, I was going to ask,

what do you think the steps to that are? It starts with that. It starts with finding peace being alone. Because the lover in me, I'm a Libra, okay? I'm a Libra. I'm Dominican, all right? There's, you know how many problems I'm mentioning right now? and you know

these are issues these are serious issues and so I have to be I had to be aware one thing I've learned in the past year of being just kind of to myself is I yearn for validation

like I'm just looking for that and it's not from my Instagram or from comments or from strangers in the street it's from a woman it's from one woman I just it's easier for me to go through my days being validated and being told

that I'm just that guy by this one person. I realize that that's cool, but it's my most toxic trait. It's my biggest problem because it's what's led me into quickly getting into relationships, staying in a relationship for the sake of safety, and then still having the other half of me

that wasn't ready, so he's panicking. And he wants to figure out. It's not even that he wants to go off and do things, you know? Sorry to that. No, no, no. No, no, I know what you said. into the camera. Come on.

It's not that either. He's not that guy anymore. No, yeah, he has changed. No. It's not even the, yeah, it's not even the idea of just trying to get with other people. It's, it's me panicking and just thinking about the future. Thinking about, well, whoa, whoa. Like, I don't even know what tomorrow looks like for me.

Well, I can, you know, I guess what I was trying to say is, like, I think even the most spiritual impulse for people who are cheating. is that that's, you know, it's not I want to be with somebody else. I think it's like it's a response in all these other ways. It's like it's the emotions you just described. Yeah. You know, and so then the way that it manifests is like, well, this is maybe like a quick fix, you know. I mean, that's my, that's one theory. I think that's valid.

I think that's valid. I think just regardless of what it is, though, the other person's always going to lose. Right. And it's never going to, and you're always going to deal with that. And if you're cool with dealing with it, that's you. Like if you're cool with just doing it and being like wow she's pissed But I can't and it kills me And the people who I you know

The like the experiences I've had If the person was right here right now They can at least say yeah Like it definitely hurt you too And it wasn't like you spent the time ignoring me Like you I've always spent the time trying to write my wrongs And it comes from me wanting to But it's just all like so exhausting

It's so exhausting It's so exhausting It's wonderful though that you recognize that, sort of that you have that, like, awareness and you have an awareness of, like, what you're striving towards and love. That's all you can do, yeah. I think anytime

one person hurts another, it hurts them, too, whether they admit it or not. And I think admitting it and dealing with how it has hurt you too and how it's affecting you is that first step. Yeah, absolutely. You talked a little bit about religion. You said that you grew up

Catholic. And I'm wondering if you could tell us a little bit more about the role that religion and spirituality played in your life growing up and then also what are your views now how do you feel towards spirituality and religion so I grew up Catholic and I grew up believing in God I still fully as well I believe in God I believe that there is something beyond I don't know you know and I don't kind of kill my brain trying to figure it out often but I lost my grandfather when I was 17 I lost my grandfather two months

before I got the Moonlight Row exactly two months before the same grandfather who I grew up in the house with my whole life I lost him to cancer he was only 65 so it was unexpected it was scary but the second he went up

I started always calling it up and I started remembering the values I learned as a child I dissected myself from Roman Catholicism, I believe in a lot of things, but I don't know, I don't even know much about it, to be honest. I went to Catholic school, but I, you know, I don't know much about the politics of religion. And so when it comes to the politics of religion, I'm out of the question. But when it comes to personally believing that my grandfather is puppeteering me right now and helping me

through my career yes there's no way he went up and two months later I got this role and these blessings I think his power down here he had such power down here he was such a light like he was

he'd come up to you be like you are so beautiful give me hug give me hug and he didn't have to and he just he was always trying to he was always talking about me he was always like that's my grandson my grandson he's going to be in movies he's going to be in movies because he got to see me through my four years of high school. So he got to see me build love for the craft. He came to my shows.

The last musical he saw me in was me playing Uznavian in the Heights in LaGuardia. And at the time, he was very sick. So him coming was huge. And we had to go right back home. Like after we graduated, all my friends went out to dinners and parties. And I went to the hospital. And I just kicked it with my grandpa. And so I was losing him at a really weird time. I'm at a very crazy time in my life on top of getting a manager who's like hey audition for stuff I lost him August 25th

2015 that beach scene in moonlight that like really iconic one I shot October 25th 2015 so it's like two months on the day so that's all to say I believe he's up there I believe that the things I do down here matter and will carry

on to wherever I go after when it comes to the nitty gritty of it all I don't know you know it's hard to say It's really beautiful. That is beautiful. Dorel, I lost my mom August 1st, 2014. And I would just offer this as like

just my own sort of, I've thought about death a lot. I do think that they're involved, that sort of our loved ones are involved in our lives and help us cultivate our talents here. But I think we can also help them there and that we can like continue to cultivate that relationship with them. So maybe like meditating ways to continue to cultivate your relationship with your grandfather.

When I sort of had that epiphany, it really changed my relationship with my mom. mom's death and allowed us to have a relationship still. I speak to him all the time. I spoke to him in the bathroom before there's anything. Yeah, I'll speak to them all the time. So that's really nice that you do that as well. But yeah, so when it comes to that, that's my answer.

Yeah, that's beautiful. Thank you for sharing. We want to get into your career, which is already so incredible, but I want to ask you one more personal question. You shared, I'm very family-oriented, and I had only a few solid friends growing up. I went from that to suddenly having people from all walks of life want to be my friend and concern themselves with my welfare. Wow. And I wanted to ask you, what has that transition been like from the Bronx to Hollywood? How's that been? It sounds like to be

very intense. Yeah, still going through it. Yeah, still going through it. I'm just such an oddball. I'm such a like weirdo when it comes to it. I don't, I didn't run to it. So I got lucky. I don't know why I didn't run to it, but I chose not to. What I mean by that is like when, when they CS came out and I won the Emmy. Yeah. I just watched your speech the other day. Oh, incredible. That was insane. So I went from, I went from like 20,000

followers on Instagram to a million in maybe a month. Wow. That's trickled down since because I'm not social media. I just let it happen. I lose like a thousand followers probably a week. Gotta get those videos out. Yeah. Yeah.

Make it take time of love, man. Sammy's looking at me right now. I can't see. I would love to. Sammy's like, yeah, I'm going to do it to talk with Penn. So, wait, what was I saying? You were talking about the transition. You were kind of an oddball, didn't run to it. You just got the Emmy.

When that all had happened, I started getting hit up by, obviously, a lot of old friends, a lot of old flings, a lot of, just random. I didn't know I gave my number out this. How many people. What am I doing? Hey, I was your substitute teacher in this eighth grade. I'm like, what I got my number? I get those. Why did I get my substitute teacher my number?

That's crazy. It could be spam. I don't know what it was, but I'm talking like I'd wake up with 900 messages. Oh my gosh. Like actually 900. Oh, Dural. Not even being dramatic. On your phone, not on the social media.

On my phone, on the green thing. Yes, I did. It was so much. It's so overwhelming. And that's probably, did something to a part of my brain. Yeah. And then on top of that, celebrities were reaching out, too. Yeah.

So I was being hit up, I won't say names, but I was being hit up by, like, some really dope, dope people that I would love to kick it with. But at the time, I got scared. Yeah. I got nervous as hell. I was 21. I was still living, like, pretty much in New York and still going to my moms regularly and seeing my friends.

So even though around me, everybody's like, yo, what's up? I was like Denzel's house last night Like you must have went right Like no no I haven't gone to any of these crazy places He's texting me and I'm not responding Yeah no he actually Also that was a random name job He's never texted me until I would love that

But no Yeah just like cool people who who You know after the next few shows come out Hopefully they hit me again Because I feel like I burned some bridges I'm not gonna lie I feel like maybe not a serious bridge Obviously I don't know how mad you can get at me

You don't know me But, you know, there's connections I could have made then. Yeah, man. Well, this industry requires networking. It does. It does. Exactly. So that's where I'm at right now.

It doesn't, it, what's happened to you is, like, the most incredible firestarter that anybody could ever ask for. And then beyond that, it takes, it takes amount of conscious, it does not just take talent. We know that, you know. And it doesn't. And a lot of it is luck, but then a lot of it is like, you know, the work. The worst case is like it's nepotism or it's like, you know, insular, it's an exclusive crowd. But actually, it's natural to want to work with people you know. You know what I mean?

Yeah. Like, it's natural to want to work with somebody that you're like, I trust that person. I don't know that person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And again, the worst case is like it's exclusivity. It's just all the bad things that we know about. But, you know, I'm just... I wish I knew this then.

Right. I wish I actually thought these ways. I was so anti it. Yeah, I see you, man. I really do. I think the word networking has, like, connotations that, for some, is positive, but for many people are negative. I wonder if the reframing of, like, relationship building. Yeah, yeah.

Or the network is like, you know, like you think of the root system of a forest. That's a network. Yes, that's the other. Huh? The root system of a forest. You know, like all the tendrils coming together, sharing electrical impulses and warning each other about the infestation of ants and the one, you know, this is what they do. That's what I think of when I think of natural. networks.

And tendrils, of course. Jarrell, you've been talking about when they see us, and that is such a special and important project. I wonder if you could tell us how you prepared for the role and also how immersing yourself into that story affected you? Yeah. I still carry it all today. I think we all do.

But it's crazy to think it's three years. It's been three years now, or coming on four years since I was working on it. But I spent a lot of time with Corey. I spent a lot of one-on-one time with him, going to get pizza with him, buying, you know. He went into a foot locker with me one time, and he bought me a whole pair of sneakers. I was like, man, no, please don't do that. He was like, no, no, no, you're Corey. I'm buying Corey sneakers.

That's so sweet. Wow, that is, I'm good. that could have been quite healing also absolutely absolutely he's just such an incredible man he's such an incredible person and yeah it was just hard it was just difficult it was you know when you're doing a project it's all this design right it's all this kind of made up stuff from somebody's mind they were just kind of like you know this and regardless of there's weight to it there's still like a wall up we know it we know it's It's a movie, right? When it was doing this, it never felt like it. It just always felt like real life. It always felt visceral. Like the stakes are high.

Always high. And, you know, Corey was on set, too. So I'm out here performing and doing these very difficult things, and he's watching it. And so I never understood how he could do that. But he's the type of person who you wouldn't, you couldn't tell he spent all that time in there. He'll go up to a cop right now, shake his hand, take a selfie with them. Wow. He is just a lover.

And like resilient Unbelievable resilient So he called himself a lion And that's exactly what he is And he called me Simba So And he's a lion He has this huge lion tattoo in his arm

And he spent longer Because I also Yeah he spent the longest time then And he was tried as an adult That's right So he was 16 As opposed to everyone else Who had been 15 or 14

And so It just based off of A couple months Of his life He just had to go to Rikers and we won't even let an 18 year old rent a car but we will incarcerate a 16 year old as though they were an adult that is wild you know I just gotta say

you and everybody involved obviously like that was just such an inspiring project to come out at the time that it did and you know your performance you know again not sort of at the center of it you know like you like you were the only person who played young and and older characters so like I just want to say it was incredibly inspiring to see and to see you win like that man like it it made me feel good about this

industry i'm not i'm not kidding like because all the things that you're talking about in your music the things you're saying about about about your craft it is it is a challenging industry and when you were cast not like i knew about it happening at the time but seeing seeing all these kids actually being like so many talented kids in this thing you know and then and then you breaking out like that and winning, it was like, it was so, so lovely to see. It was, yeah, it felt like we were, um, we were like a basketball team, you know, and I shot the, the, right, right, the buzzer and everybody, it's just the champagne popping everywhere, it was big, and the men were at the Emmys, too, deck to the nines, you know, they

look, they just dressed, I mean, this, I think about it, they're, you know, they're incarcerated at a young age, 30 years later, they're dressed in suits at the red carpet of the Emmys and sitting, you know, prime seating, watching. And when I won, they all stood up. The flip side is, of course, it doesn't mean necessarily anything is fixed, but at least, like, the justice for these men in the end. You know, it's like, it's just, it's such a, it's like we need those moments.

We need those moments. It does not mean that everything is fixed, but we need them because it's just like, like I said, it's inspiring. It's inspiring, absolutely. It's just, yeah, it's tough, you know. It's a story that happens every day, you know. Yeah, it's, it's, it's, I don't, I hate to think about, like, the men and women who are incarcerated fasting right now, still sitting in there knowing that when they see us came out. Right.

Knowing that that show was big, talked about those men from the 80, from 89, and how they didn't do it, and now they're free, and the world knows now. But here I am. Yeah. Still in the cell. And I'm going to be here another 30, and they have no idea I didn't do a damn thing. And so, yeah, it's that, it also comes with that. And it's just one of those stories that are just, it's hard no matter what. Yeah, I can see what you mean by the way that it stays with you.

And you, of course, were taking all that on. You can't do anything less. Yeah. It's like, typically a role does not have all that with it. Stick around. We'll be right back. Fall is in full swing, and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm, and save big.

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What are you looking for in the projects that you do next and what is on the horizon for you? It seems like you are doing a lot. So I've been incredibly quiet since all of that time. I haven't been in a project since Concrete Cowboy, which followed when they see us in 2020. But, you know, that was mid-COVID and went up on Netflix. It did very well. Really great film, but kind of was a bit under the rug type,

which is fine, like those two. You can't win Emmy every time. I know, I know, I know, which is why I said. It's fine. The next one. No, I'm just kidding. I've been very selective because it's going to be impossible to ask for another when they see us and for another moonlight in the next however many years, right?

So obviously it's not, you know, you can't always come across this project that is so impactful for the entire culture. I kind of want to wait around for it, but I got to get paid and stuff like that. So right now it's been a focus on projects that just challenge me because I feel like if I can do projects that challenge me and are so out the box, then I will be inspiring somebody. because it won't necessarily be the next cultural, impactful project, but it'll be a project where you just see this Dominican from the Bronx playing a 13-foot-tall black man from Oakland, which is I'm a Virgo. I'm actually doing that.

Wow. I'm going to be 13 feet tall in it. Wow. That's amazing. That's going to be Boots Riley. You know, I don't know if you guys are familiar with Boots Riley. They just started to bother you. Oh, my gosh.

Which is incredible. And he's from the coup. I don't know if you know anything about. It's a 90s hip-hop group from the West Coast, incredible music. But he, like, sorry to bother you. You know, he's very whimsical, and he's very out the box. And I love the way he writes because he has the ability to write black characters that have no limitations to them, no regulations.

There's no set because, you know, it's because you're from Oakland, so you kind of got to have this, this, it's none of that. It's this, it's a fantasy. That's what's sorry to bother you It's like beautiful fantasy With incredible commentary on capitalism And so that's what I'm a Virgo's about to be It's just this incredible fantasy piece

With an important commentary on capitalism Not necessarily commentary on racism Not necessarily on slavery It's about capitalism That's cool You end up hearing those words Just based off of what's under the umbrella of it And, yeah, it centers around this kid who was born.

And when he came out the womb, he was six feet tall. Wow, cool. I can't wait. And so by the time he's 18, he's 13 feet tall. And so it's about him having been confide by his parents this whole life because, you know, can't let this 13-foot-tall man out. And then, you know, he ends up finding his way out, and it's his journey throughout Oakland.

And he's a furgo. And he's a virgo. Wow, it's fascinating. And he's a virgo, which is the point of him being a virgo is because it isn't easy, you know. Wow. And then, on the other hand, I'm doing a show called Full Circle, which is directed by Stephen Soderberg. Never heard of him. Yeah, same.

You're not going to win anything with that one, man. Like a composer or something? That's right. That's right. He was a composer. He wrote a musicals. he yeah so things like that like when that came in and i got the chance to speak with them and i'm gonna rush to that that's a challenge yeah and that's that may that that's uh that's just

working with a director who has been oh my god he's just worked with head honchos and he's done incredible projects that are timeless projects yeah so yeah just trying to find myself more in those. I'm hoping for another project that'll speak to the culture because I love I love that there's not many that do so if I get the chance to continuously be a part of those

experiences I think it'll keep me so happy in my life so I'm always looking for that but until then it's just the role that like bends and bends and flips me a couple times to like I can get it right you know like doing the 13 foot tall project was crazy because he shot force

perspective so no CGI No special effects. What? Miniature sets and Wow. A 13 foot silicone doll of me to get the over-the-shoulder shots. Oh my gosh.

And then six-inch silicone dolls of my scene partners to get over the shoulders of them. And so the entire time, I didn't look at my scene partner once. I was just looking at a green X-Mark. Either a green X-Mark or an iPad that was showing delayed footage of them. And I had an earpiece because most times

if we were doing this scene right here I'd be in another room and this whole room would be designed but miniature and I'd be sitting in there at an exact angle so I'm like this and you guys will be in this room here

and they'll be a big 13 foot doll in here and you'll just be looking up at it and I'll be talking to three little mini versions of you guys So you really got the sense of being 13 feet tall yeah I did I'm not even six feet so that was nice you know, to, you know, I'm looking up to most people. So, like, I'll go to high school now.

Yeah, it's my zone. You know, and funny enough, I'm afraid of heights. So there's oftentimes where I had to climb up a ladder because we had to perform on a platform for some shots, too. There was like a million different ways they shot it. There was a lot of different tricks they used. That's what I was inspiring. Very ambitious.

Very technical, and I can imagine it points maybe a bit frustrating as an actor, maybe. But largely, probably also very. very inspiring because of how different it is. Absolutely. It's one of those projects where when you end it, you're thinking it. Like when it's done, you're like, whoa, actually, I got to do this, that, and that, and the third. But when you're doing it, yeah, it was grueling.

It was tough. I mean, for all of us, and Boots came up to me at one point. It was like, man, why did I do this? Why did I do this? You know, he even said he had some creative friends who were telling him, hey, man, like, don't do that. Don't do this, man. It's tough.

And he did it. He did it. And he is going to make history for doing it. Yeah. I was going to say. And then they get it. Only with Amazon. Yeah. Amazon. Crazy. Amazon. Yeah. We're going to talk about that. You're writing new music. Tell us about that. Yeah. So I'm an artist. I've been a rapper in my whole life. I'm not in a position where I'm like, yo, I want to be Drake.

I want to just quit the acting, be on radio plays, be on features, tour of the world. I just love to do the music so much and when I was growing up I was the kid freestyling rapping, you throw me words, I'll go ahead and spin it I'll make fun of you in my rap or something or you know I would cipher and freestyle with kids at the table

or at the park so when I was 18 and Moonlight had come out I was like oh I might be famous or something so I was like well what do I do? Do I just like, just maybe rap for my friends, keep it a hobby, or bring it along with me. And long story short, I was like, if I'm 45 years old and I didn't choose to try to rap at some point, it would eat me a lie.

So, yeah, I'm, for the last five years, I've been in the studio, patient and making songs. I have maybe like 60 to 70 songs. Oh, my gosh. And you only have two out. I only have two out. I've been very patient. Yeah, I'm trying to, I used to drop stuff on SoundCloud. And there might be something on SoundCloud from me when I was like 17 or 18 that you can find.

You've got to find that. Yeah, I'm sure somebody will end up digging it up. But, yeah, there's only two that are out because, like I said, I'm not in a rush. And, well, now I'm in a rush. I'm not going to lie. Now I want to get these songs out because I'm so ready. And I have this hunger for it. Like they're made.

They're made. They're ready. They feel like me. They feel like, they just feel like me. And hip hop right now is just at a very quiet, quiet time. It's like little desert balls Roaring around around. Maybe apart from like the giant, you know.

The giants, of course. But in terms of that new wave, because when the giants go, you need the new wave. That's been hip-hop's beauty is that there's always, it was almost clockwork every 10 years. There was this new wave of a group of maybe five to six that we're going to continue carrying the torch.

And I don't know, I think there's a lot of reasons why hip-hop is where it's at now. I think a lot of it is social media. I think a lot of it is the watered down aspect of it making so much money. Yeah, I was going to say capitalism. I mean, it's exerting its strain on all art forms and all, you know. Back then when you wrapped to make so much money, you had to be so nice. You had to be killer.

You had to say the wildest, coolest things. Today, that's not the case anymore. You can get stupid rich off of nothing. like off of a cool, cool concept. A vibe. It's a simple concept, simple beat, survive. And part of that, I think, is like the algorithm aspect of music now. Music, you know, we now have a generation that's grown up where, like, buying music is in a relevant concept.

You know what I mean? It actually is literally in a relevant concept. Doesn't exist really. And that industry has accepted that. You know, the way streaming has changed television now, that happened almost 20 years ago with music. You think about that, that's actually kind of crazy. That's true. It happened so long ago that streaming was like, end of.

that era and so now music is based on like it's a background noise algorithm based on things you like but aren't very close. That scares me with the film industry well you know the reason that it can't happen in the same way is actually bandwidth it's a you can't do movies are

it is it is different but we should all have some not fear but we should have what's the word we should exert wisdom and tact and think of the future with like yeah maybe some caution or just some just

awareness that like it is unwritten the way we're going to see social change in the next couple decades and the way it's going to influence art is our last question if you could go back to your 12 year old self what would you say

what would you say don't push away any love and don't push away yeah don't push away any love regardless if it's love for yourself love from a partner love from a friend don't push away love like believe that you are loved

I feel like I'd be way more ahead right now if I just, like, understood that I'm deserving of love. That's beautiful. That is really beautiful. Jarrell, we're going to have to bring you back because there's... I'm coming back. I'm here tomorrow. What's up?

This has been so, so lovely. Thank you for coming on. Thank you. Of course. This was so much fun. You can keep up with Dural D'Rome online at Jarrell Jerome. this is a tricky question if you don't want to answer it you can pass it also i also want to give you some context

when we say spirituality and religion we're thinking like what's your relationship to the divine to the to the unknowable essence that is there in some manner that we're all thinking about and how to and what was your relationship growing up with it and then how is it kind of now thank you beautifully put that thank you for that yes thank you um Yeah, thanks. Sophie's never allowed to ask the question. I'm just going to say, don't ever ask me about you. No, no, I just, I appreciate that.