Podcrushed - Kelsea Ballerini

Episode Date: September 21, 2022

The youngest artist ever inducted into the Grand Ole Opry, Kelsea Ballerini, shares about her brand new album, her time as a judge on The Voice and what it was like to be supported by Taylor Swift, and that one time she stole* a mailbox.  Follow us on socials:InstagramTwitterTikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada I liked the idea of making the theme of the album So change is inevitable So what if Because it's inevitable What if I choose to not have fear surrounding it And what if I choose to keep my arms open to it And know that if I just let it happen

And let it pass through me I'm going to get to the other side of it And it's either going to be like a good change Or a bad change But either way I'm going to get better for it. This is Pod Crushed. The podcast that takes the sting out of rejection, one crushing middle school story at a time.

And where guests share their teenage memories, both meaningful and mortifying. And we're your hosts. I'm Nava, a former middle school director. I'm Sophie, a former fifth grade teacher. And I'm Penn, a middle school dropout. There's three beehis who are living in Brooklyn. Wanting to make stuff together with a particular fondness for awkward nostalgia. Well, I struggle with nostalgia.

I'm here for the therapy. So guys, guess what I did with one of my famous friends? What? And which friend? You can already tell this isn't true. And which friend? What did you think? Famous friends.

Penn? No, I thought there was a chance. Taylor Swift? Did you go to her party in the end? I know. I will still... There's a party that will never... Our relationship hasn't been totally the same.

I will never forgive Penn for not going to that birthday party. Do you know about this? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I remember. being shocked but can you tell that story I think so

about the day that our friendship died I was invited indirectly to Taylor Swiss was it a birthday it was I do remember

so no Mama is actually I'm heated I don't I mean I got a real last minute invite to Domino and I

my youngest son's he's one at this point so you know our household is like relatively chaotic and it was like a Sunday Pretty sure we had a great parking spot didn't want to lose

Totally kidding Nava That is a big deal in New York though It is a big deal in New York Not if you're rich And you can pay for your car to be towed But yeah so we didn't go We didn't go to Taurus's birthday And like you know to not go

To Nava is an is an inconceivable No but it's true On many levels it was inconceivable to me It's like I don't understand that decision It doesn't make sense to me There's a little Easter egg in this season though my show that is a reference to Taylor's birthday, there's a reason that there needs to be

a sequence of numbers at some point. And there were two options. I don't remember what the other option was, but then the option that I chose was Taylor Swift's birthday, which if I recall, holding on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on. December 31st, 1989? Almost. No, December 13. Yes, December 13, 1989. Amazing. Nava, I just have to tell you the energy, like on this couch. Shift right now. Yeah, like when you first said there's an Easter egg that. It involves Taylor Swift. Nava, her whole body, lurched forward, first of all. And then her whole facial expression is very cute.

Be honest, Navi, you were imagining something better. No, that's better than what I was imagining. Oh, cool. Speaking of Taylor Swift, our guest for today, Kelsey Ballerini, tells a really cute, sweet story about Taylor. I'd say it's better than cute and sweet. It has those aspects to it. Those are the worst adjectives, what's wrong with me?

I'd say it's like it's, what's the opposite of dispiriting? Can't say spiriting, can you? Uplifting? It's galvanizing, or it has to do with empowerment. Yeah. Today's guest is Kelsey Ballerini. She's a Grammy-nominated and CMA Award-winning country singer and poet from Knoxville, Tennessee. You might know some of her songs already, like her double platinum selling singles Miss Me More and Peter Pan, or you might know her from her time as a judge in the voice.

Kelsey published her first original poetry book, Feel Your Way Through, last year, and is about to release her fourth studio album, Subject to Change. That's this week, September 23rd. We really love talking to Kelsey. We think you like listening. Yeah, I, let's go ahead and say you love listening. Stay tuned. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it?

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Listen to Legacy Talk wherever you get your podcast or watch us on YouTube. All right, I have a kickoff question, Kelsey. So we heard that you had a vlog in middle school. And I'm curious on the most exciting episode of your vlog, what would have happened? I did have a vlog. It was around the time where I was in middle school

when it was like Hannah Montana Jonas Brothers era, right? And so my last. Miley had a vlog. It was her and her best friend. It was like the Miley and Mandy show. Do you guys remember this? I watched Hannah Montana, but I didn't know she had a vlog. It was just her and her best friend being chaotic. And so I was like copy and paste. I'm doing that with my best friend because clearly people want to see what I have to see in Knoxville, Tennessee. No. But yeah, me and my best friend Madison, we just sat in front of a camera and talked. It was so lame. But it was fun, I guess, for middle school. I mean, if you done it in the age of YouTube, you could have

have had billions of subscribers. Maybe I do. I don't even know what channel that's on anymore. It's an old one. My old email was like ballet mania and I think it was under that. So who knows? Different life. Have you ever gone back to look at them? No,

I guess you don't know where they're... No. I'm cringy enough as it is that I can't handle that. My mom still has middle school me like all over the house. So I do feel like there's a bit of a shrine to middle school

me still. Why do you think that is? Like specifically middle school years? I mean it's your mom so like it's my mom oh why does your mother love you? Can you explain to me why this relationship is like this? I mean she has she has like my full, it's like the full of my full life on the walls. But middle school was interesting like I got really tall and like boys got cute and I was and then my parents were getting divorced and it was like a really messy divorce and it was just ah i mean at the time pretty horrific like three year period but now i look back on those three years and it was like so important for character building and i'm grateful for it now but at the time i was like this is hell yeah were you already starting to process like some of that or channel some of that anger pain confusion into art i wrote my first song when i was

12. Like, I always loved music, and I did, like, Lee Club and that kind of stuff, which made me even cooler in school. But I didn't ever, like, think that I was, like, could be, like, a singer-songwriter. I just didn't know that was an available career. So I wanted to be, like, a vet. And, yeah, during my parents' divorce, all of a sudden, this, like, gifts fell into my lap of songwriting. And it is the thing that kept my train on the tracks, because I think I could have had a very chaotic few years. But I just felt so in love with it. Like, it just was this, it was consistent, you know, and in that time, regardless of what's going on in your life, you know, otherwise, just like with the changes within yourself, like, gosh, you, to have something that's consistent is such a gift. Truly. Kelsey, I saw in a conversation with Reese Witherspoon that you talked about, like a core group of middle school friends that you're still friends with today. And I was wondering, like, what were you guys like at that time? Like, if you could describe that friend group. I have always kind of had friends in every different group.

Like, I, like, middle school, I also tried out for cheerleading and didn't make it. I was one of the three that didn't make it, which is important to note. It's important to know. It was character building. But, like, I had a couple cheerleader friends. I had a couple of friends that were, like, you know, the best academics. I had, like, friends that, like, played sports. I had friends that, like, were pretty antisocial.

Like, I was, like, at the lunch table that was, like, the spillover lunch table, if you will. And I still feel that in my life now. Like, when I'm not in artist mode, like, my friends just kind of do a bunch of random stuff. And I like that. But how do you feel the Grammys? How do I feel at the Grammys? Well, you know, the joke is always that someone in your position, you're like, you're really at some kind of pinnacle, you know, of success. And yet those feelings of insecurity don't ever leave.

And in fact, they can intensify. Absolutely. I feel like in different ways I'm like probably the most insecure I've ever been. I've done a lot of work on myself too. So I'm very aware of the feelings and like how to manage it. But for sure. Like what a weird job we have. You know, it's awesome. But there are definitely things where like you're you go into rooms and you're like, how did I get in this room and how am I supposed to act? The other night, you guys, the other night I went to Harry Styles at MSG. And I went into like the backstage area. to like this green room because he had a lot of guests. And I just react differently every time I am around a very famous person. And this time, it was Lenny Kravitz in the hallway. And the way that I decided to handle that was to walk not to him, just past him, and just turn to him and go, hey, Lenny.

Just keep walking. And he said it back, like, maybe he, like, thought he knew me or something. It was just, I just don't know how to do it. I get that. You should have just struck up a conversation with him. I know, Lenny. He's a incredibly person. actionable guy. Next time. Next time you meet Lenny Kravitz in the hallway backstage at Harry

Stiles concert. There's at least three of those. At least three in a lifetime, for sure. You're right. So sitting just like from afar, and I imagine that a lot of fans and people who know you would think this, like you're beautiful, you're talented, you're successful. So I want to ask you, was there anything you were really bad at in middle school and like any embarrassing stories that you're comfortable sharing? The question is really, what was I good at in middle school? Like I said, I, you know, I didn't make the cheer squad and I, well, I danced for 10 years, but I started when I was like really, really little. But then I stopped when I was 13 and I was on a competitive hip-hop team. You can believe it. That's amazing.

You even tried not to say that. I'm actually really jealous of you, Kelsey. That's like my dream. But I, you guys, I hit puberty and I like, look how long. It's just I'm a long person. And someone with an arm like this can't do hip hop. Like, it's just, I have like two selfie sticks. It's like just odd how long they are.

So I just, I lost all my coordination, really. I have started ballet class again, though, just recently. Ballet mania. Ballet mania. Spam me. I was good at, like, the musicals. I was good at that part of it. But my most embarrassing middle school story, I have a goodin for you.

Are you ready? Okay. It was picture day, seventh grade picture day. And I also, as fate would have it, had to do the PE run the mile that day. I remember my mom helped me pick out this outfit. I like this cute white skirt and a pink top. And you change out of it into gym clothes, did the mile, got an awful time because who runs. And then changed back into my clothes. And I remember in the locker room, they have a mirror. And I like looked at the mirror. And I like looked at the mirror. and I was like, okay, let's get the picture. And that was in the gym, and the cafeteria was like across the entire school, like all the hallways, right? Class change happens, and I start walking to the cafeteria. And I'm noticing people kind of laughing and definitely looking at me, which certainly didn't happen in middle school, so I knew something was wrong.

And I end up going to the cafeteria, and my still best friend, Madison, walks up behind me and yanks my skirt and I turned around and I looked at her and she was like your skirt in the back was tucked up in your underwear

and you just walked through the whole school What a good friend though She's a good friend Everyone else I'm not friends with her anymore Also I totally thought

it was going another direction when you said she yanked your skirt down I was like How dare she? She's not that kind of friends So we love her

We love her We love her We stay in Madison No it had already gone the wrong direction She was correcting it. Oh, my God. The other embarrassing one that I have is also related to running.

I was on the track team, and I did relay, and we were practicing one day, and then the high school soccer team practiced in the middle of the track field, like in the middle of the track. And so, like, you know, all the older boys. So all of us were, like, trying to run and, like, do, like, slow-motion hair flips. And I had an asthma attack. Oh, no. Sorry. It shouldn't be funny, but. I'm asthmatic too

Those years are the reason that I'm funny Like that I have a sense of humor Because it's survival Kelsey I don't think I've shared this On the podcast before But I went to asthma camp Which is like the nerdy I feel like could anyone utter

A more nerdy sentence Yeah there's a reason I've never What is asthma camp? Exactly Clear your schedules everybody We're going to asthma camp It was a sports camp for asthmatics, but you, I feel like this is, like, ripe for, like, comedy.

It was a sports camp. It was, like, a summer camp for asthmatics where you're just, like, build your stamina. So every day you had to blow, because, you know, asthma's connected to your, like, lung capacity. So every day you had to blow into a bag. And, like, from day one to the end of it, it should have, like, expanded more because your lung capacity was supposed to increase. But it was, like, mostly just sports and stuff, but, like, we were all as as mad. So, like, when you're, like, when you're practicing and stuff, is there just, like, a wall of inhalers ready, readily available? Yeah, you would think. you would think and it would be funnier if I said yes but

but no everyone had them concealed and I don't have memories of people like pulling them out and having asthma attacks but that might have not a concealed inhaler Hollywood is missing out like this is a perfect setting for a comedy pen this will be our breakout comedies yes that's funny I wonder

is there is there this is totally ignorant to me I don't know is there a good science behind like is can you build like is that something oh yeah yeah for sure it helps asthmatics should be doing To be athletic, yeah. For sure. Wow.

Well, that's great then. Yeah. Then this wasn't remotely funny, and this was just an encouraging tale. I'm glad you shared it. It's so funny. Yeah, so I was very popular. Yeah, that's been clear. Kelsey, you mentioned a couple times.

You mentioned the boys playing soccer in the middle of the track. You mentioned boys getting cute in middle school. And I'm wondering, what was your experience with boys, with heartbreak, with love, with crushes around that time? I'm like such a sucker. I'm like I just had so many like crushes but I never really dated anyone I guess until high school which what is dating in high school anyway but my my vibe was like I would just get the biggest crushes and then like just have blinders on and like you know get to school early and like put lip gloss on and all that stuff because I wasn't also another thing I was not allowed to wear makeup until high school and the way that my mom did it was she was like okay now you can wear clear mascara this year and And the next year was like, now you can wear tinted chapstick. And then the next year, she was like, now you can wear blush. I'm like, Mom, what you're not understanding is that I have acne and clear mascara is not helping my cause right now.

What does clear mascara do at all? It just lengthens your lashes. Exactly. Okay. Who knows? It's doing the bare minimum. How is that shaped like your feelings around beauty, around makeup? Do you feel like it had an impact?

I'm sure it did. I'm such a girly girl And so as soon as Like even when I wasn't allowed to wear it out of the house I would always still play in my mom's makeup I think now as I'm like getting older I'm like oh it's just another form of self-expression I think that's why I loved it

You know that's the age where you're really struggling To find yourself and express yourself And I think that's other than just like wanting to feel Like cute You know I was just like I I wanted like play I want to play And so now like you know

I get to be a cover girl now Which is like has been on my bucket list Since I was literally that age Thank you. So it's like a little full circle. From tinted chapstick to cover girl. That's right. Easy, breezy, beautiful, baby. So you mentioned play. You said the first song you wrote, was it 12?

Is that right? Yeah. Was it becoming already something that you wanted to pursue at a higher level? Yeah, I really fell in love with it. Because I was lucky and privileged in a way where, like, if I wanted to try gymnastics, you know, my parents let me do that. If I wanted to try track, they let me do that. So I was able to try a lot of different things.

And I danced for 10 years. I was on a dance team. I did all of that. And I liked it. Like, it was a hobby. But I think my mom specifically watched music and, like, writing music go from a hobby to a passion. And there's such a big difference there because the passion is, like, the thing that, like, you're like, oh, this is, like, one of my life's purposes. Like, it's a pillar, you know?

And I think she was ready to get out of town just from the changes in her life. And, yeah, we had, like, gone back and forth to Nashville for years on weekends and tried to figure out how it all works and honestly still had no idea. But it was just this, like, leap of face. that she took with me to go. I look back now and I'm like, God, what a selfless thing for her to do, but also what a perfect storm that life happened in the way it did, that she was able to be in a place where she could and was ready to move. So I moved to Nashville when I was 15, and like, all I wanted to do was make it.

I also put this pressure on myself, which I've had to work out in therapy, where I was like, oh, now I don't only owe it to myself. I owe it to my mom who uprooted her life. So now I really have to make this work. So I finished high school and dual-enrolled into college while I did high school so I could leave every day at noon and drive into downtown Nashville. And I would either go to like a co-write or anything that I could do musically in town. And then I would drive back to Franklin where I was living and I would dual-enroll into like night classes and community college. So hold on.

What's a co-write? It's basically where you just, you get in a room with another songwriter and you write a song together. And were you doing that with people who are like older and professional? Were you doing that with people your age? It was pretty much whoever would take the time to do it, which was not a lot of people. And so then finished high school, and my mom made a deal with me. She was like, you have to go to college until you can make a living doing music. And so I went to college for two years, and I did classes Monday, Wednesday, Friday,

and then Tuesday and Thursday were my music days. And then I got a publishing deal, which is basically my job was to be a full-time songwriter. And so I dropped out of college. and wrote songs full-time for a year. And by the end of that year, I had written what ended up being my first three number ones. Wow, that's incredible. First three number ones on a Tuesday and Thursday schedule.

That is amazing. That takes so much determination, Kelsey, which is really incredible. And I'm wondering, was there ever a time when you felt like, I need to take a break? Because you've been working from such a young age. I'm like someone who is always in forward motion. but I've also learned that, like, my coping mechanism for anything in my life is busyness, and that pairs very well with what I do for a living, so I have to watch it.

The first time that I came up for air was pandemic since I was 19, and it was freaking terrifying because I was just forced to, like, actually process my life and how much it's changed, and that, you know, I'm not a teenager anymore, and, like, all of a sudden I'm in my late 20s, and it was just like this weird thing, and one of the things that I realized in, that time was that I actually need balance. And when I take the time to have balance and invest in my friendships or my personal life, I get to show up better on stage. And I get to show up better for things that are like, like work. Kelsey, can you tell us a little bit about your song writing process? Like what inspires just all the songs you've come out with? And I just want to say

on an aside that your song, Peter Pan, when it came out, I was going through like a breakup with someone who was so immature, and it was like my anthem. I would just, like, blast it on repeat and, like, go on runs to, like, process that situation. That makes me happy. You don't understand. You'll never grow up. You're never going to be a man.

Beat a fan. Songwriting is my favorite part of what I do. It's like, it's my, it's my favorite thing. It brings me so much joy. And I think I love it the most because it's different every time. You never know if you're going to be, like, reading a book and you see a word. And you're like, that's. that would be a sick song title.

Like, that's, sometimes that's how it works, or sometimes it's a melody that you just, like, you know, like you just hear in your head and that becomes the song, it keeps you on your toes. And I think having something that feels different every time and you have to be readily available for it to strike you, that to me is so exciting.

And then, like, the weirdest thing is, like, you write this thing from your brain and from your heart and from your human experience. And then you share it with people. and even though it's specific to you it's also somehow specific to them like you're saying with Peter Pan I wrote that about my high school boyfriend

you know and so it's like but then you had that experience with your person so it's just it just works like that and then you just like sing it together at a show and it's just this magical full circle so I always say I have a big piece about the fact that like one day when the radio quits playing me because I know it will

and I hope it's a long time for now but I don't know I still get to be a songwriter and that's rad it seems to me like a lot of people in music are not the songwriters and that's not necessarily a judgment it's not that kind of show it is a judgment but it is necessarily a judgment no but i mean i i really i just think that's just got to be awesome for you that you started with that foundation so that yeah like that can never be taken from you and i'm curious when you were doing that on your tuesday thursday schedule when you're 19 or whenever that was if you first were doing a publishing deal and it was like

all songwriting. You're not thinking that you're necessarily going to play these songs yourself. The whole point is that they're for other people. Were you always pursuing that this craft would include you playing your songs on stage, like as you? Yeah. And it wasn't even because I liked my voice. Like, I've actually only discovered that I like my voice in the last couple of years. It was just because I couldn't imagine anyone else singing my story. That didn't feel right to me. So I was then and I am now super open to writing. for other people. But in that year that I was just a songwriter before I got

a record deal, like I was specifically writing to figure out me and what I could sing for me. Have you ever had an experience where you, like, sit down to write a song and you end up writing about something you didn't know you were feeling? So much, so.

You know, life imitates art and art imitates life. And I listen to my album and I'm like, oh, wow, like there was a lot of discovery happening and a lot of working out how I was feeling happening while I was writing it. That's so cool that you had that when you were in middle school, when you were that like starting from when you were 12. And to have those memories recorded of like bookmarking years of your life.

Like every album I've gotten to put out bookmarks two years of my 20s. And just to have that as I get older and listen to and remember what I was feeling and the messiness and the beauty and all that in between is like that's that's cool that I can have that when I'm hopefully old. Stick around. We'll be right back. All right, so let's just, let's just real talk, as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now.

That dates me, doesn't it? But no, real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a one to ten. And I don't mean in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick.

When you have responsibilities, I know myself, I'm a household. I have two children and two more on the way, a spouse, a pet, you know, a job that sometimes has its demands. So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm being held down some other way physically. You know, my family holds me down emotionally, spiritually, but I need something to hold me down physically, right? And so honestly, I turn to symbiotica, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets

that they taste delicious and I'm telling you even before I started doing ads for these guys it was a product that I really really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with the three that I use I use I use the what is it called liposomal vitamin C and it tastes delicious like really really good comes out in the packet you put it right in your mouth

some people don't do that I do it I think it tastes great I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning really good for gut health and although I don't need it you know anti-aging and then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8 which is really good for for I think mood and stress I sometimes use it in the morning sometimes use it at night all three of these things taste incredible honestly you don't even need to mix it with water and yeah I just couldn't recommend them highly enough if you want to try them out go to symbiotica.com slash podcrush for 20% off plus free shipping That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping.

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and I'm so curious if you can share with us a story of your best or worst performance and how you got through it. Well, I'll tell you the funniest. The funniest, I was opening for Keith Durbin maybe four years ago, and we were playing Barclay Center in Brooklyn. And I didn't have time to get my nails done. And so I went to the Walgreens and I just got press on nails. But I also play guitar. And I was doing every show, whether I'm opening or headlining, I always do a song. just me and my guitar. It's like a sing-along. And this particular night, the guitar string got caught under my press-on nail

and flew out into the crowd. A girl caught it. She thought it was a guitar pick. It was not a guitar pick. It was a nail. And I wasn't confident enough yet to say it out loud. So I just like was frozen. That's really cute.

It's really cute. Did you say that you're? you went to the Walgreens for this beforehand? Yeah. Was it the one, is it like in the vicinity of Barclays? Because I lived here there. I'm thinking of the, when you say the Walgreens, I'm like, I'm pretty sure I know that Walgreens.

I went to your, to your neighborhood Walgreens. That was a choice. It was a choice. It was a choice. You said that, I heard you say once that Taylor Swift was one of the first artist to give you advice. And I'm curious, what advice did she give you? And have you been in the position to give a new artist advice?

Taylor really, like, changed everything from me early on. My first, love me like you mean it, the first song. It wasn't even top 40 at country radio yet. I'm like a new female artist on an independent label. Like, every odd was just not in my favor, you know? And she, like, tweeted about the song and about my EP. And she really put eyeballs on me and ears on the song. And it changed everything.

And then she kind of took me under her wing for a couple of years. and like in an off-camera kind of way too, which I think there's a big difference of people that kind parade people around and you're like, look at me, I'm doing something good. And then the people that are like, just come over. Like, I'll make some dinner. Like, let's open a bottle of wine and ask me questions, you know? And she did it in that kind of way. Yeah, it gave me a lot of good advice and was someone that was available to me to like ask about all of it for a long time. And I'm really grateful for that. And now I have a bit of imposter syndrome. I'm not going to lie where I don't feel like I'm equipped to give advice,

but then I have to remember that I've been doing this for a while now. And I, like, I remember when, like, Kelly Clarkson got sick. Was this like a year and a half ago? And so she called me. I was in Nashville. She called me, and she was like, hey, I'm sick. I need you to sit in my seat and do the battle rounds this season. Wow.

I had to get on the plane in the morning and be in her seat on the voice by 1 p.m. in L.A. the next day. And I had such bad imposter syndrome because I was, like, you know, sitting next to John Legend and Blake Shelton. and I was just like, I don't feel like I'm equipped to give this advice. And then I remember working through it in my brain and I was like, but here's what I am, here's what I can do. I'm the newest artist on this panel right now. And that means I'm closer to what they're about to experience. So like I can give advice from being a newer artist because that's what I am.

I'm not John Legend. He is and he can give that advice. And I can give the advice of like, hey, in the next five years, six years, seven years, this is what it's going to feel like. This is my perspective. And once I shifted to that, I was better. So, yeah, I give advice when it's asked for. Otherwise, I just...

I'm going to go back and watch that, because that's one of the few shows that I watch very surprisingly. That is surprising. I... Yeah, it's hard for me to watch television because, you know, when you know how the sausage is made, you don't want to eat sausage. There's a unique heart to that show.

I think there's, like, a shot of you, like, texting Kelly. Like, and it's like sort of... Yeah, I was just really... I was like, I wonder how she's feeling. Yeah, because it's Kelly's team. And I was wondering, like, from the team's perspective, How do they feel that it's, like, not their judge? Like, that's a really tricky position for you to be in.

The whole time, like, we were talking, because it's her team. So I was like, what do you want me to do here? What do you think? Out of these two, who do you want me to save? And on the last day, I was like, okay, last round out of these, who do you want me to save? And she was like, it's yours, take it. Wow. Which was cool.

That's amazing. She's got so much heart. Oh, she's so special. I consistently just love what she says and does. So joyful, so sweet. Yeah. Kelsey, I wanted to go back to what you said about Taylor Swift. One, I'm a huge Swifty, so any chance to speak highly about Taylor.

And I'm going to say, our editor always cuts out when I talk about Taylor, so you have to keep this in. It's true. It's never come out in the podcast. Yeah. I really loved that story. I actually think I've only talked about her once, and it was probably long-winded. That's why. It's because when now that talks about Taylor.

I've talked about her twice, but they were both long-winded. That's shocking. No, but I want to say that story was so touching because. there has in the past been a perception of women, you know, in the media being pitted against each other, probably women actually feeling really competitive against each other because it's a narrow lane. And that perception is

changing, but I think, and I think other people might feel this way too. Sometimes you wonder if it's just like for optics. Like maybe it's not really changing, but the press is to say like, now women support each other. But like behind the scenes, maybe they don't. So I really loved that story that it was like she was truly supporting you.

She wasn't doing it for press. Like that was really inspiring to hear. Yeah, me too. I have a question for you, Kelsey. Your music is really about your personal experiences. Have you ever put out a song and then felt like, should I have put that out? Or was that too vulnerable? Or do you just own it? I haven't. Not yet, at least. There's one on this next record called Doing My Best that I think it makes me probably the most nervous. But no, I think I've just had this thing from the very beginning. I was such an influenced teenager and influenced by my favorite artist. And I remember there was such a difference between the way I felt about the ones where I was like, oh, I could be their best friend. I could reach out and touch them. And then the ones that I felt were in a glass box. And so whenever I have gotten to be in this seat on this side of it as an artist, I was just like, man, I don't want to be a glass box artist.

I want to be me. So, like, the day, this is chaotic. The day before my first ever label photo shoot, I was 19 years old, and I panicked. I had a full panic attack because I was like, what if this single works? And what if, you know, what if it, you know, Radio Disney's going to play it? And then there's a bunch of young girls that are going to follow me. And then what if one day I want to get a tattoo? And what if one day I want to start drinking wine?

And like, are people going to think I'm off the deep end? And so I went to a tattoo studio and I got a tattoo the day before my first photo shoot. It was my like really naive, like stupid way of going, I just want to be the same. Like, I just want to be consistent here, you know, like on and off stage as I grow up, as I navigate life. Like, I just kind of want to show up as I am. That's a very, like, responsible way to get a tattoo. You're like, what if I want to get one later? And I'm a role model to these young people.

I should probably start being honest now. So, I mean, like, what if I want to have a sip of rosé in the future? She's like holding red day. Yeah. Just show up, slosh. No, I mean, really, that's very, that says something about you. I don't know what it says. It says something good and then many things, and I'm sure we'll be unpacking for years, as we all do.

But I'm really, like, I'm impressed by that. And I think that's very, that's just very sweet. It's also big. I didn't mean for it to be this big. Yeah, it says how sweet the sound. Amazing Grace was the first song I ever sang in front of people. But it's large. I didn't mean for it to be this big.

It is kind of large, yeah. That happened to me too, my first tattoo. I was also young, and I felt like, I remember the tattoo artist drew it and put it, you know, placed it on me and was like, is this good? And I was like, that's huge. And I was like, yes. Oh, no. It looks great. So, Kelsey, the three of us are really into talking about, like, religion and spirituality.

And so I'm curious if you can share a little bit about your spiritual practices and how, faith has like shaped a career. I, you know, that's a really interesting question on one that I'm actually in a lot of therapy about right now because I think I grew up like super, super hyper religious and going to church like two, three times a week. And then, you know, I, um, I led worship in church for a while and did all of like the youth group trips and activities. And then I went to a church of Christ college. Like, so it was all I knew. And what I'm, what I'm grateful of about is like I think it taught me community and I think it taught me like really good values in life and how to be a good person. But there's some stuff that I don't align with. So I think that I'm

definitely very spiritual and I definitely believe in God. But I think it's maybe different than how I was raised now. I'm unpacking that currently. You said something that made me think of prayer earlier. And I'll just give you a little bit of my background. I grew up very like anti-religious. Okay. I think I've said this in the podcast before, but I remember seeing a bill board repeatedly and this was probably you know this was probably on the eve of my parents divorcing somewhat in the years prior so this billboard we drive by so frequently on the way to school was the family that praise together stays together and at that age i remember thinking like man that's right and i'm sure that's really intense for you right now and it was intense for me

even at what 10 11 years old i could feel the pressure in that statement because even though I now believe in the essence of some truth there it was like oh and even at that age that young age I had such a disdain for that kind of like authoritative or authoritarian I still don't know the difference by the way please let me go to college someday I think authoritative is at least when you're talking about parenting styles sorry we can cut this out but authoritative is no no it's staying is positive it's like someone you know you have parents who are role models who are guides for you but they allow you to go out on your own as well authoritarian is like strict that's very helpful

that's very helpful thank you thank you teacher no but but like so now one of the things I value most is like building this culture of of like reverence and sacredness and and prayer in my family you know and feeling comfortable using the word god which i never used to uh but you said something earlier about songwriting that there's this process this thing you can engage in that is new every time and so i'm just curious like do you experience um talk about a long-winded question is there a question here do you experience creativity is songwriting spiritual for you kelsey bowie yeah i mean i think songwriting is one of those things where like how can you not believe in something bigger first of all like you make something out of nothing you know what I mean and there there are just certain things in life songwriting being a huge one for me where I would just never be like I did that I made something out of nothing because I'm great you know like that's just that's not how I work I choose to think that that is certainly a gift that was given to me and that's why I say like you have to be on your toes all the time for songwriting because

because you never know when it's going to strike you. And again, that's another reason where I'm like, of course there's something bigger. There's a song of yours called Club. I was listening to it earlier. You're expressing, I think, the anxiety that everybody who's ever been to a club has felt, which is this crushing social pressure

to sort of conform to, if you think about it, a quite narrow sort of perspective, you know at least in those moments where you're in the club and you're shuasted um

schoisted yeah I don't know why I can't say anything normally when there's a camera and or microphone on because I'm just like

when is it going to end when can it just be myself when can people stop judging me which is how you feel in a club

incidentally unless you're shwasted which is why you get so shall waste it You brought it back. You brought it back. How is your relationship to the responsibility?

I mean, you said you first got a tattoo before your first breast shoot because you felt some kind of responsibility. Like, how is that? And I mean, really, really open-ended. Like, it doesn't have to be going any kind of way for you. Like, what's your relationship to that right now? I spent my 21st birthday on a Southwest flight going to, like, Utah to play a radio show. And I never really drank before that or anything like that. like I was like I have a helicopter mom and was very very what's the word protected I guess growing up sheltered is the word

sheltered is the word and so I you know I went from a church of Christ college to all of a sudden being on the road as a touring artist in the music industry country music is you know maybe a bit more tame but maybe not so i feel like i just yeah i just try to have balance in my life i guess and from the social aspect of it like going out with my friends for a fun girls night that's fun i'm down with that going to a social event where i'm trying to like look like i know how to dance and look like i want to have a 45 minute conversation with someone i've never met before because they own this thing and i'm supposed to impress them not my vibe can't do it that's really hard for me and I know it's a part of my job sometimes maybe um but that's the stuff

that I I maybe have grown out of a little bit Kelsey you were inducted into the grand old Opry congratulations incredible and Carrie Underwood did it and I just wanted to ask you about that experience and if there was special significance in it being Carrie yeah I mean for a country artist grandal Opry is you know it's like the it's like the castle it's just the most important sacred thing you can be a part of and so I was inducted as like the youngest and newest member and to be able to

have that so early on in my career is crazy. I remember Carrie backstage she was like you have somewhere to play for the rest of your life now and I just thoughts of myself that's so true Is that what that means? Yeah maybe tell us for those of us who don't know tell us about the grand hall

Opry. It's just this it started out as a radio show now it's moved to this an actual venue. They've had a show ever since it started. They've never missed it. And it just honors country music. So every show, there's like newer artists and then legends and it's like a variety show basically. It's cool though because I'm certainly a country artist, but I also have done crossover stuff and I intend to keep doing that because the women that I look up to the most are like Shania Twain and Taylor Swift and people that push sonic boundaries. And I just think

I'm doing myself a disservice to box myself in if I feel like I want to, you know, explore. I don't worry too much about that anymore. Some people think I'm ruining country music and that's a them problem, not a me problem. So, yeah, the fact that the Opry has their arms so open to new sounds and honoring the roots of country music

and the people that have blazed trails, but also really open to the future of it too, I think is really important and necessary, but the fact that the biggest pillar of country music is doing that is important. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. Fall is in full swing and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished, stay warm, and save big without compromising on quality. Quince has all the elevated essentials for fall. Think 100% Mongolian cashmere from 15,000.

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never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lambie laugh guy. Keep mealtime exciting with nom-num available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed. Spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. Okay. We are finally. going to ask you about your new album. We haven't had a chance to listen. We've heard Heart First. It's wonderful. Thanks. Like I was saying earlier, I feel like each record, but I'm going to jump right in. Baby, with my heart first. I got to have it. Tell us a little bit about the album, sort of what inspired it, what you're excited about, just everything. Like I was saying earlier, I feel like each record, it's just been two years of my 20s. And when I was listening to, the year and a half of songs I had written so far.

It was like 80 songs at the time. And I was just trying to find what the theme was. I'm like, what have I been writing about? You know, it's like coming out of pandemic times. And I was like 26 when I started it. And I was 28. It was a lot of self-awareness and self-reflection. A lot of growing up.

We've all had change forced upon us the last several years. And I liked the idea of making the theme of the album. So change is inevitable. Like, we've just been reminded that in a very large way as humanity in the last couple of years. So what if, because it's inevitable, what if I choose to not have fear surrounding it and what if I choose to keep my arms open to it

and know that if I just let it happen and let it pass through me, I'm going to get to the other side of it and it's either going to be like a good change or a bad change, but either way I'm going to get better for it. It sounds really heavy. It's like the least ballady record I've ever made. It's breezy and it's sunny and it feels good.

But there's meat on the bones, and it's the story of me trying to kind of figure out my life the last couple of years. Yeah. On your last album, you had a song, Los Angeles, that was very vulnerable and personal. Is there a song like that on this album? I do a solo write every album. So you were asking about co-writing earlier. I do a lot of co-writing with like a really small group of people that I trust that helped me kind of articulate things in different ways. And still, I do one solo write on every album just to hold myself a camera. accountable to make sure that I still trust myself at the end of the day. And L.A. was my solo right on the last record. And a song called Marilyn is my solo right on this record. To me, I just, I feel like she's such a metaphor for someone who presents so beautifully and sparkly and, you know, almost mysterious in a way. But there was just so much more and so many layers and so much

going on in her life. And I feel like now that everyone's internet famous, we all probably feel a bit of that. And I certainly struggle with that, especially in seasons like this, where I'm promoting a record, but I have a lot going on on my personal life, you know? And sometimes I just kind of feel like it's jarring to turn it on. And I'm connected to that song in a very different way than I was when I wrote it. But it's the only sad song on the record. And it's, yeah, it's my little baby. I can't wait to hear it. I've always felt like that. Marilyn Monroe. Yeah.

No, you know, it's been said by many artists, and I think particularly the musicians, is that I think it takes the most courage and maybe the most genius to write a happy song. Ooh. In all of our storytelling in media, in our art forms, we see a lot of stuff that's wallowing in in sadness, you know, and probably hopelessness and a certain bleak vision

of humanity's definition of itself and our potential for a future, you know, And when you write something happy, you're doing something really bold and really brilliant and really happy. So I commend you for that. I love that you said that because I've really thought about this the last couple of years of why do I feel guilty on a good day? You know? Because of the haters. One of the things I've really been working on is not feeling shame for being okay sometimes.

And like when there's something to celebrate, like I want to celebrate it and not and do it like unobstructed. by feelings of other people projecting what I should be feeling onto it, you know? It's bolder to be happy sometimes. We have a final question that we ask everyone, which is if you could go back to your 12-year-old self, 12-year-old Kelsey, and spend some time with her, what would you say to her? I have a story, and this might be long-winded, but I promise it's worth it. We want it. We want every detail. So I started therapy again like four years ago.

and I learned that I needed to do a lot of work on healing my inner child. And about a year ago, my mom's best friend sent me a Zillow Link from Knoxville, and it was my childhood home. It was up for sale. And I was scrolling through the few photos that they had, and one of them had the mailbox in it. I left this particular home when my parents split up, so I was 12. And the mailbox still had ballerini down the side of it. Whoever lived there afterwards just never changed the mailbox. And I, like, just had this visceral reaction to the picture. And I was like, that's my mailbox.

Like, I need, that's mine, you know. And I called the real estate agent. And I just said, hi, I saw that you listed my childhood home. Is there any way that I can get that mailbox? And he was like, you're Kelsey. And I was like, yeah. And he was like, I legally can't tell you that you can have private property. which I'm now telling everyone that he told me this

so oopsie doodle but but he was like you know if you if I woke up one day and got a call that the mailbox is gone you know I think it'd be all right and I was like okay so I went I went home for for something and I saw my dad

and I went and stole the mailbox and now I write letters to my younger self and I put it in my childhood mailbox stop you were blowing us away with the best answer. That is the best answer we've ever gotten

to this question. I really want to hear the details. How did you see the mail logs? It was at night. I had just finished a music video. You did it at night. It was, yeah. But I also need to disclose

that I did leave a mailbox. I bought a mailbox. I'm not going to appreciate that. That's good. I'm glad you included that detail, though. I will be honest. I didn't personally do the unsquilling. I was more so the getaway car.

That's where I thrive. But my dad had told me that the family that lives there now is a mom and her two kids, and she had just gotten divorced, and it was like their home to start over. Wow. This story. Kelsey, this sounds like a country song. Yeah. If you haven't written it.

You're right. So can you give us a snapshot or a summary? What would you tell middle school, 12 or 13-year-old, Kelsey? Keep asking questions. I just think I've always been someone who likes to know it all and I used to think it was a bad thing. You know, like you know it all. It's like there's like a negative connotation to it. But I think I think knowledge is power and whether that's like knowing yourself or knowing more about your art and career in what you do or your friends, whatever it is. I think just keep asking questions is what I would tell myself. I love that. Thank you, Kelsey. Thank you so much. Oh, thank you guys. This was the highlight of my week.

I appreciate it. Today's real-life listener submitted middle school story, which we've titled The Hug Plan, is so typically middle school, so cute. Here it is. This is the story about a time in my life when I hugged, more specifically, body slammed, a boy, and then ran away. as if my life depended on it. In seventh grade, I caught feelings for this boy. I wasn't allowed to date in middle school, and I was way too honest of a person to date behind my parents' back,

but I liked him so much, I asked my dad if we could date. A flat no. So we continued our little thing, though, whatever it was, and when summer approached, we made a pact, to tell the other person if we stopped liking them. I made this pact to protect myself, really thinking he'd lead me on.

Well, I lost feelings first. He was a D-bag. He did not take it well. He started to treat me like shit, so I was done with him. However, one week before 8th grade, I got a random text. I don't like you. I wanted to let you know to honor the pact. Period.

We'll put a fucking period down. Now, I didn't care that he was over me. It was the fact that on a random afternoon, while I was shopping with my mom, I got a text saying, I don't like you, when we were already over. That's just a dick move, right? But for the first week of eighth grade, I thought I liked him again. Really? I just missed his attention, but he got a girlfriend, and I moved on. Anyway, that year, a lot of shit went down that screwed with my head, and I needed help,

which I didn't know at the time. A couple months after the boy and his girlfriend broke up, I swooped in because I missed the attention. But F boys will be F boys, and this was obviously doomed. I'm in cooking class, and I text the boy saying, I want to act like we're dating, even though we aren't, but I still want that feeling. And to my surprise, this is the text I get back. We could hug.

Now, I don't know what I was expecting, but I can tell you it was not we could hug. I went with it. The boy goes, let's do it today unless you don't want to hug me. And I was like, nah, it's good, when and where. And I kid you not, this boy and I made a whole ass hug, The plan was to meet at my locker, hug, and carry on with our bullshit lives. Well, I waited at my locker, but he didn't come.

And I was beyond relieved. All my friends were there with me, and they were like, no, maybe he will come. And I was like, yeah, maybe when internally I was thanking God, he never showed. But my friends, were they my friends? Pushed me to walk over to his locker, which was on the first floor. I followed because I had no choice. they were pushing me and right as I turned the corner there he was with all of his girlfriends who were all secretly in love with him they were all staring at me before i knew it all of our friends formed a circle

with me and him in the middle like a sacrifice in rosemary's baby and this boy was standing there staring at me like dude you were allowed to hug me too but no for some unknown reason slash known reason I had to hug him, which is BS in itself, but let's save that rant for another day, shall we? I panicked. And when I panic, I actually make panicking noises, such as, e, or, and this was no exception this time. I didn't want to do this, and I also needed to catch my bus on time. I decided the only way to get to my bus was by breaking through his side of the circle. Screw it, I decided, while making weird-ass noises, and plowing into him like a whole ass body slam. After making contact, I just ran away, horror movie villain with a chainsaw

chasing me style. He and his friends teased me about this relentlessly for the rest of the school year. This experience did teach me to say no to things I don't want to do. To this day, I'm pretty sure the people who witnessed this situation still make fun of it, but I'm living my life and, hey, you know, at least I left a strong impression that they'll never forget, right? You can hear Kelsey Ballerini's new album, subject to change, everywhere you get your music, starting September 23rd. And you can see her on tour for 10 nights only, starting on September 24th. You can also follow her online at Kelsey Ballerini.

Podcrushed is hosted by Penn Badger, Nava Capplin, and Sophie Ansari. Our executive producer is Nora Richie from Stitcher. Our lead producer, editor, and composer is David Ansari. Our secondary editor is Sharrath and Twistle. This podcast is a ninth mode production. be sure to subscribe to Podcresh. You can find us on Stitcher, the Serious XM app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. And while you're online, be sure to follow us on socials.

It's at Podcresh, spelled how it sounds, and our personals are at Penn Badgley, at Nava, that's Nava with three ends, and at Scribble by Sophie. And we're out. See you next week. We love this episode from the tip to the grip, and we think you will too. They insert it. Stitcher.