Podcrushed - Leighton Meester Returns (Series Finale)

Episode Date: February 18, 2026

Well folks... this is it. The final episode of Podcrushed. As a final parting gift, the gang called the only person befitting of the 'final guest' title: Leighton Meester. Leighton is not only the very first guest we ever had on Podcrushed, or Penn's co-star from the iconic series Gossip Girl, or the actor you know and love from projects like The Roommate and Nobody Wants This... but is also the most requested return guest of all time on Podcrushed. Be sure to stick around to the end to hear final thoughts from the hosts after three seasons and well over 100 episodes of Podcrushed.    David is offering our listeners a special deal: buy 4 cartons and get the 5th free when you go to https://www.davidprotein.com/PODCRUSHED.     To learn more about therapy with NOCD, go to https://www.nocd.com and schedule a free 15-minute call with their team.   🎧 Want more from Podcrushed? 📸 Instagram 🎵 TikTok 🐦 X / Twitter ✨ Follow Penn, Sophie & Nava Instagram Penn Sophie Nava TikTok Penn Sophie Nava See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada. I ran into this person. This was now, like, 10 years ago, but it had been, like, over a decade. And I was like, there's no reason why this would be weird. And I walked up to her. And I was like, hey, and she goes, oh, my God, I just wanted to say, I forgive you. And just, I was like, oh, oh, thank you. And then, you know, two or three years later, I'm, like, washing my hair.

I was like, I know what I would have said. And I should have said it. And I will tell you what I should have said, which is, oh, really? I've been worried about that all these years. And that's how good that sick burn turned out. What a burn. It's a bird and a half. Welcome to Podcrushed.

We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Sophie. And I'm Nava. And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Making our Furby's kiss. Give me some sugar. I don't know, is that weird?

Hug me with tongue. I don't know. Oh, no. Welcome, welcome, welcome to Pod Crush. Guess what time it is? I don't know if we're going to get to use whatever I said this in before, so I'm going to say it now, a podcopylips or something. Does that work? It's a Podcopapylips.

It's the Pod Crush Toppelips. Well, now I've ruined it. Now it's far worse. Somehow, Pop-Cocklips sounds like you're saying it wrong. I'm like, you've got it wrong. I've not rehearsed it, nor will I ever say it again. But every time I said it, it also felt very wrong. Probably because just tonally, it's not reading the room.

You know what I mean? It's not really, it's not here and now. But neither are we anymore. We're about to bid you adieu for Frivet. And that's that. And so we want to keep it short and sweet. It is hard to believe. It's harder to believe that it'll be short and sweet.

I'm not even sure that I have that capacity. So this is a true story. We had this idea for a finale episode that we were going to follow through with. It was maybe a little bit complex or complicated or superfluous. It was gratuitous because after we interviewed Layton, who was supposed to only be part of the finale episode, we thought, what more could we ask for?

It was so good. It was so meaty that we could make two finale episodes out of just our conversation. Let's not. We probably won't, but I mean, why add another part? Yeah. Yeah, but what Penn is alluding to is that we were going to do a retrospective episode, where we go flashback to our favorite moments,

and then flashback to our favorite guest and then it's latent, but she's just so wonderful and funny and charming that she's going to be the whole episode, which I think is what you all probably really want. Yeah, and also I think just it was like a good time in the sense that we did reflect meaningfully on this time in a way that we even hadn't before. We were finding something new.

And so it's just like, you know what, this is, if anybody listens to this show, and it's not clear that they do, but if anybody does, you know, this is what you came for. So I don't know. why. If you want to hear more of us, just listen to older episodes.

The archives. Have you ever read that children's book where the beaver, it's like Beaver finds a friend or something and he thinks he has this friend, but he realizes it's his echo. That's us. So you know where you love her,

you need her, you want her from possibly some of her more iconic roles from the past, one of them probably being Blair Waldorf, the Blair Waldorf, who, you know, she really is in spirit gossip girl. I might be gossip girl in name, but she is gossip girl in spirit and substance. However, currently, she's got a lot going on.

I think having something of a renaissance, you know, her own mccanissance. It's a, I'm trying to think of like... Alainasance. Alainasance, yeah. Yeah, it works. I want more of her name in there, but it works, yeah. Leitonisance, no, that's worse. No, that's good.

I've made it worse. Podcopolis. Latonisans, Pad Copa Lips. Oh, it's just so bad. No, okay, so well, it's not bad. Layton's current projects,

we got a few. So there's Good Cop Bad Cop, which is a comedy on Prime. She's got Buccaneers, which is like a period drama on Apple. I love L.A. She's got a recurring arc on there that people love.

She did have a lovely cameo on her Bose shows. Nobody wants this. And she's also going to be in an upcoming rom-com with Jared Padalecki called Guarding Stars. We got into

everything left over that you didn't get in our premiere episode. We were returning to whence we came, starting how we finished, rather finished how we started. I can't remember time when I wasn't

trying to introduce this guest. You're going to love her more than you ever have. We did. Please, you know? Say it. Say it one more time. Come on. Please, please, please, folks, stick around.

If you're looking for a new domestic thriller to binge, My Husband's Wife by Alice Feeney is the perfect book for you. This thriller from the author of his and hers, adapted for the hit show currently streaming on Netflix, will leave you questioning everything you know about love, identity, and revenge. My husband's wife is a tangled web of deception, obsession, and mystery that will keep you guessing until the last page. Prepare yourself for the ultimate mind-bending marriage thriller and start reading now.

You can find my husband's wife wherever books are sold. Hey there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus. I'm back with a new season of Wiser Than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor, and their hard-earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more. inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91-year-old mom, Judy, to get her take on it all. Wiser than me from Lemonade of Media is out now, wherever you get your podcasts.

So I want to know, I want some receipts five years later. Yeah. Embarrassing story. What is embarrassing. And I think, like, well, all of being 12 through 28, is like embarrassing, you know? I remember, like, someone asking me, like, how old are you? And I feel like I said I was 13, like, I was 13 at the time, and it was, like, embarrassing to say my age.

Yes. I still feel so connected to my young self. I feel like I get so much now sort of unpacking and examining all those years before, certainly all the way through my 20s, when I finally had the privilege to feel my feelings, I feel really like just so much love for that young person. And so much like, I wish I'd given you so much more space

and I don't know if this is the correct word or this is overused, but grace, you know, and I think there was so much pressure, just I felt that, whatever, you know, I was the adult sort of figure, like, in my upbringing, and everyone else, like, kind of, I had to manage them. So I think I didn't get to feel just freedom or feeling my mistake.

And then, you know, I can really only speak for myself, but I think, you know, you probably felt this to some extent, I'm assuming Penn, but like, you know, early 20s, when you still continue to make childlike mistakes or just really still messing up. I mean, I still do that every day. I mess up in some way. But I think I don't, I don't, I didn't need to have all the answers, but I thought I did. And so looking back, I think, you know, I just would, I guess, I mean, there's no right or wrong, I guess, is really what it is. And when you're a kid, you're just innocent. And being able to preserve that innocence probably would have been good. But I don't know if that's just now in retrospect. So, I don't know. You know, there's something about the word innocence and childlike.

I wonder if there's, if the greatest sort of, say, innocence or purity is the sort that is tested and tried and maybe even lost for some time but then regained as opposed to, you know, the innocence of a child is just because they have not been exposed to this, that and the other thing. And obviously some children are exposed far earlier and whatever. But purity and innocence have these very saccharine sort of shallow connotations in our culture because we think it's not mature. And I actually think the greatest sign of maturity is when you are able to retain and regain specifically those two things, like purity and innocence. But that it's been tested. It's like it's not because you haven't experienced. It's because you have.

I think our culture is like just obsessed with the most image. things and calling them mature. And I mean, I just, as a, yeah, I'm just like, like, you know, even just smoking and drinking. Smoking and drinking and fucking, actually, those three things, I think. It's like, oh my God, are we all 14? Like, come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like, rebranding it and being like, well, it's a microdose now.

Okay. Yeah, right. Totally, totally. My therapist says it's okay. Yeah, cool. Yeah, yeah. You're priest. Great.

Yeah, you're in confessional. Awesome. Yeah. No, I think, like, immature is a really sick burn, actually. Like, it does feel good. But, you know, I mean, when I'm thinking of, like, I mean, like I mentioned the president, I'm sorry to bring it up. Bring up the president.

Let's talk about it. We're on our way out. I don't like him. Wait, really? Yeah. But, I mean, I would say, like, I found him. myself being like, God, what a little baby, you know, just, you know, in privacy of my home is saying like, what, and I was like, no, that's giving to, he's, and I'm being like, he's a

toddler. And I'm like, actually, that's like not giving enough credit to toddlers. Toddlers are, like, or, and babies. They're developmentally appropriate. Yeah, well, that and also. Yeah. And they also are so honest. They don't have a problem looking you in the eyes. You know, sometimes they, can be a little mean, but they just don't have a problem with connection, and they're so good at reading other people. It's how they learn to exist in the world. All they're doing all the time is absorbing what the grownups are doing and what the big kids are doing and figuring out their place in the world. And I mean, you know, I think losing innocence to some extent actually means

losing that, sort of going, oh, I have to align with what everyone else is telling me to do. And When you watch children playing or, you know, kind of being unstructured and unencumbered, like they figure things out really easily. They know how to like manage with one another and actually get over stuff really quickly. Like even I have a 10 year old and, you know, it'll be like one little moment with a friend. And then they're like, oh no, but I, you know, just like easy to make up. And it's not like hair trigger, you know. It's just weirdly being able to like talk about and get through stuff maturely.

And as grownups, we don't do that. Or they'll be like, that's mine. And they'll take it. You know, a little kid will take something. And it's because it's so important to them. And they put so much value on these little things. Like I heard it compared to like if a kid, if a little child is playing and they're playing with a total. that's just like, I don't know, a ball.

And then Kidd comes up and takes it. You're like, but it's just a ball, you know? And it's like, as if someone came up to you and took your, like, engagement ring off of it, and then I'm just taking this. You know, it's like that's how much they value that because they're just in the moment. And who's to say that's not more valuable than a ball?

You know, like that they're equal in value because of what we imbue them with. Yeah. I have found myself in recent years being able to, yeah, I think say, like, I think it's just like maturing, like being able to say how you feel more in the moment. Although I still have a really big problem with saying something in the moment. Like I, it will be years later. And I'm like, oh, my God, I could have said that.

And like it's, I won't think of it. And now, because I often don't know how to assess situations in the moment. Like it takes me a long time to know what's happening. And particularly, I find that when somebody's not being very nice, I'll like, you know, have some, I mean, this is not the best story, but I'm going to tell it to the world. Yeah, give us your second rate stories first. I'm going to tell you the bad ones. I ran into this person that I'd worked with, this agent who, who,

I'd had when I was younger, and I left that agency, and it just is what you do. You sometimes leave an agency or whatever. And I didn't really think that it was like a bad thing, and ultimately it was good for me. But I ran into this person. This was now like 10 years ago, but it had been like over a decade. And I was like, there's no reason why this would be weird. and I walked up to her, and I was like, hey, and she goes, oh, my God, I just wanted to say, I forgive you. And I was like, I was 11.

Yeah. And I was like, oh, and I, and just, I was like, oh, oh, thank you. And then, you know, later, way later, I was like, Oh my God, that was so rude. And then two or three years later, I'm like washing my hair. I was like, oh, I know what I would have said. And I should have said it. And, you know, and I will tell you what I should have said, which is, oh, really?

Oh, my gosh. Because I've been worried about that all these years. And that's how good that sick burn turned out. What a burn. Three and a half. Have you ever? Layton, have you ever said something in adulthood? Like you're talking about not saying things and then realizing later,

oh, this is what I should have said. But have you ever said something in a moment and then realized, I wish I hadn't said that? Yeah, all the time. Yeah. All the time. What, Sophie, have you? Yeah, of course.

But, you know, Layton actually evaded our embarrassing story question. And I'm trying to know her down. I mean, yeah, I had like little embarrassments every single day. I'm trying to think of what was really, really embarrassing. I think, oof, I wish my embarrassment also wasn't attached to so much trauma. That's where, so actually, these guys, my co-hosts think that I evade answering questions. And I'm like, guys, it's just because the ones that come to mind are not, they're not, it's too dark. Yeah, like, it's just, it's like, I got them.

They're right here. Oh, trust me. But they're not, they're not easy to laugh about. Yeah. Or they're just, you know, like, you know, kind of just unsavory. But go ahead and tell us yours. I mean, like, thinking about, like, flubbing lines when there's a lot of, like, background and traffic holding

and stuff like that, like, on any project at any moment, definitely I think about this one time where I was doing a play. And you came to see the play. I had, at one point during that run, a late entrance. I, like, couldn't get down the stairs. And it was, like, I think, I want to say it was less than 10 seconds. That's a long time, though.

Like, it feels like forever. Oh, and so this happened so many years ago. And I'm, I can't, it's still bothers me. It's giving you. It's happening. Yeah. Yeah, where I'm like, oh, I, yeah, I think of, I think of that once a day. And I'm like, oh, no.

And it's so funny. I'm like, maybe once a week. Really? No, no, I mean, I feel you. I think of it often. I think of it often. Yeah. Wow.

Wait, can I just ask what caused the late entrance? I think I just, like, couldn't get down the stairs and I don't know. I don't know what was, I honestly don't know. It was just like, I was like, oh, wait, that's my entrance.

And I was like, I was standing there, like, waiting. And there was one other time during that that I slipped. There was, like, baby powder all over the stage so that the wheels of the sets. wouldn't squeak and they would like run smoothly and I this was actually now that I'm thinking about it like way more embarrassing but I slit and I kind of like did an embarrassing almost fall it wasn't so you arrived in the scene like Kramer? You were like yeah that's actually how I arrived that kind of that Kramer like character

who was like I want dignity um and then she falls um but I yeah and I heard the like at least the front row go, oh, you know, they, they like, and I was like, that's the worst. And I thankfully, like, wasn't really hurt or anything that it was so, that was really embarrassing. But I think the late entrance, I was like, there was somebody on stage sort of like waiting for their cue a little bit and this. Yeah. You know, but then, of course, then you're on stage with people who are like, they forget an entire monologue and you just have to go, right, you know, you have to like come up with something. Because of that thing you felt. Yeah.

do it for them. By far the worst part of falling is other people feeling bad for you and trying to help you up. And it's like that to me. Can't you just laugh at me? Yeah. Let's just laugh. Let's pretend it didn't happen. Yeah.

Stick around. We'll be right back. Listen, folks. True statement here. I have tried a lot of protein bars, right? I mean, I'm not super crazy and unique here. I don't think. I mean, I'm a nearly a 40-year-old man living in the year 2026. Also, my work requires I look a certain way, right? So, you know, I've had a lot of different protein powders, protein bars. These David protein bars, have you heard of these? David protein. They have a very, I got to say, elegant rapper. Really good kind of image campaign when it first came out. I remember thinking of myself like, huh, I suppose I'll have that one day. These are a game changer.

I usually use them post-workout when I have had the rest, which these days with all my newborns, that's right, you've heard plural there. I've got newborn baby boys, twins, in addition to my two other children. I'm not working out as much, but what I do need them before is I just keep them in the pantry for like, you know, I just don't know sometimes when I'm going to be like, wow, I haven't eaten in five and a half hours and I've got to record a podcast, for instance, or I've got to go pick up the kid from school, whatever it is. They help me hit my protein goals, which I still gotta keep, especially with all that sleep dip.

You know what I'm talking about. There's no extra sugar, no extra calories, and they taste so, so good for all that. The gold bar packs a whopping 28 grams of protein at just 150 calories with zero sugar. 75% of its calories come from protein, which gives you the ultimate protein to calorie punch. They got flavors like chocolate chip cookie dough, red velvet cake batter, cinnamon roll. You prefer something a little more indulgent. The bronze bar delivers 20 grams of protein, 150 calories, and zero sugar with a decadent marshmallow base,

chocolate coating and layered textures and flavors like cookie dough, caramel, chocolate crunch, double chocolate crunch, and s'mores chocolate crunch. How many more chocolate crunches do you want? This is delicious. It's guilt-free, especially, and perfectly balanced. Protein has never tasted this good. So me personally, all that chocolate crunch,

sure, fine. I really love the peanut butter chocolate crunch, actually. It is a chocolate crunch, but the peanut butter, I think it's a safe flavor for any protein bar. This one, I remember the first time I had it, I was like, wow, looking at the nutritional facts, it was hard to believe. So this one has quickly become a staple for me, just after workout or between meals, whatever it is. Delicious. With David, there's a bar for every occasion, post-workout, midday snack, or bridging lunch and dinner. Every bar is third party tested, so you know where the party is.

Don't just take my word for it. Try it for yourself. David is offering our listener as a special deal buy four cartons and get to fifth free when you go to Davidprotein.com slash podcrushed. That's Davidprotein.com slash podcrushed. And if you prefer to shop in person, David is available at leading retailers nationwide,

including Target, Walmart, Kroger, Wegmans, and the vitamin shop. Just check out their store location. to find a location near you. We talk about uncomfortable moments a lot on Pod Crushed, but right now I want to talk about a different kind of discomfort. It comes from having relentless, stressful, unwanted thoughts about your relationships, your health, your identity, or even disturbing scenarios you'd never act on. And this discomfort isn't a one-time thing. Those unwanted thoughts, they keep coming back and the distress keeps growing. It's a terrible way to feel,

and you want to get rid of those thoughts so badly that you're just to be. you'll spend hours doing anything that seems like it might help. Maybe it's checking and rechecking your texts to make sure you didn't say something wrong, or walking back into the kitchen for the fifth time to see if you really turned off the stove, because even though you're late for work, you just can't feel certain it's off. Maybe it's something else, but no matter what you try, those anxiety-provoking thoughts just won't quit. Did you know that these experiences can be symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder or OCD? if this doesn't sound like OCD to you, that's because OCD is highly misunderstood.

The truth is, OCD can latch on to anything that matters to you, and whatever it affects, it can be debilitating. But with the right kind of therapy, it's highly treatable, and that's why I want to tell you about no CD. No CD provides virtual therapy that can help you take your life back from OCD. Their licensed therapists are trained in a specialized treatment. designed specifically for OCD. It's called exposure and response prevention therapy or ERP.

NoCD also accepts many major insurance plans and provides always on support between therapy sessions. To learn more about therapy with NoCD, go to NoCD.com and schedule a free 15-minute call with their team. That's N-O-C-D.com to learn more and book a free 15-minute call. switching banks always felt like such a hassle fees minimum balances overdraft so for a long time i didn't bother that's why i'm so happy i found chime chime chime offers a fee-free simpler approach to banking designed for everyday people not structured around overdraft fees monthly fees or minimum balance requirements it's a modern

alternative to traditional banks that still rely on penalties as part of their business model i recently switched to chime and honestly it's one of the easiest moves i've ever made i don't know about you all but I definitely want my life to be as hassle-free as possible, and that's something that I'm always looking for. It only took minutes, and it really feels like I upgraded to a smarter, fee-free way of managing my money. Plus, I love their features that are actually useful, like tools that help build credit and my pay, which lets me access some of my paycheck early with direct deposit. I feel more in control of my money, and I honestly just wish I'd found Chime sooner. Time makes your everyday spending work harder by delivering real rewards and financial

progress. Chime is not just smarter banking. It is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to chime.com slash podcrushed. That is chime.com slash podcrushed. Chime is a financial technology company, not a bank. Bank. Bank, credit, and my pay line of credit provided by the Bankor Bank N.A. Or Stride Bank, N.A. My pay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or charges. See chime.com slash fees Info, advertised annual percentage yield with Chime Plus status only. Otherwise, 1.00% APY applies.

No mean balance required. Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See Chime.com for details and applicable terms. Let me think more about this embarrassing. We'll bring you back on our second podcast. You know, we'll start a new show. Wait a couple years.

I had an embarrassing. I shouldn't bring this up now, but this is, this happened like two weeks ago. I was going into, well, So last year, I went to an award show with Adam, and he won the award. And I want to cry now thinking about it, because I'm just a little crybaby, okay? And it was so sweet. And it was like post-fire, and I just felt very, like, raw and emotional at the time. Yeah.

Obviously. And, God, I shouldn't tell this story. It's just so silly. But then, like, a few weeks ago. I was going to the same award show and I was like, oh my God, remember when I cried last time? And like I kind of like tears were coming out. And then I walked by Ariana Grande on a red carpet.

And if you just like walk by her, it becomes like you're on the internet. And she said something to me, but I couldn't hear her. And I thought she said, hi. Like she was saying something to me. And she said,

Do you know what I'm talking about or are you just laughing at? No, I just love that this is, no, I, because this is so how I feel when I'm surrounded by people who are supposed to be my peers, but I'm like, I don't know any of these. I don't know, yeah. No, and I'm setting myself up for an embarrassing moment. Like, this is even embarrassing. And there's a million cameras around and, no, this is actually great. I love this. Good content.

Please go. I thought we had our teaser clip. Now we have our teaser clip. It's going to be a seven-minute teaser. So I'm walking back. So I was with my publicist and, oh, Kate, you know Kate. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

You know Kate. I know Kate. Also my publicist. Yeah. That's the only person who knows at the award show. Same, same, same. But she was walking by, I was with Kate, and she said something to me. And then Kate turns around and we both heard that she goes, hi, I love you.

where, wow, wow, way. I couldn't hear her. She was, like, walking away. I thought she's making fun of you for last year. No, well, I had just said that, and I was like, oh, like, she's kind of a comedy queen. She's just being funny. It's true, yeah.

I love you, wha, wah, where. Like, I thought that would be something she would do. And so I was like, oh, my God, that's cute and funny. And then turned out she didn't say that. And then I saw her, like, the next week, And I was like, I have to tell you, like, I thought, and she's like, you thought he said, wow, wow, that's so funny. And I was like, no, it's an old person not being able to hear.

Like, that is so embarrassing. So you're either young and you're embarrassed and then you just go right into not being able to hear. Totally. Yeah. And you're old. And embarrassing. That's life. That's life.

In a nutshell. In a nutshell. You think you're young and cool. And then you're old and you go, I'm really not cool. Well, Leighton, something else that's changed about our show is that we do a lot more research than we did in the first season. So I did do, you know, we all did some research on you and I learned that you spent a lot of time with your grandma growing up

and I was curious if she's still with us, sort of what was your relationship with her as a young person? If she's still with us, what is it like now? She's not. She passed away a few years back. and, you know, yeah, let me give this some thoughts. So after she took care of us when we were little, we ended up moving away and going and living with my dad.

And then I never really saw her again. I probably saw her like once when I was a teenager and then once when I was an adult and then she passed away. But she all, like we always talked on the phone. But she moved to Idaho and she, I don't know why I'm laughing. It's not funny, but she lived with a lot of cats. Classic. Okay, I guess it's funny.

That's my future, but with dachshunds. I'm just going to live with a bunch of dogs. Socially adapted young women live with a lot of cats generally. Yes, yeah. It's a joke, right? She also had a lot of, like, canned goods. This is sort of the direction that she went in. Yeah, but it was more like not, I don't think it was like, I don't think it was like, I think she had a lot of trash.

I think she had a lot of trash in the house. So that's what happened with her. But I always, you know, was in touch with her over that period and even got to like ask her a lot of questions about like her upbringing and wrote a a lot of it down so that I could know, like, you know, what it was like for her when she was young. And she was, she had been like a flight attendant for American Airlines for a while and told me so many inappropriate things that happened to her as a flight attendant when she was young. Really? We had people, and we just get a little pinch on the bottom and we'd go get them a drink. And I was like, Grandma. Wow. It's fine. It's funny.

And, yeah, she was very proud that she, I guess she walked in the rose parade or, you know, like the, I don't know, something in she lived in L.A. when she was a kid. And she was in the Peace Corps. So I think that's also part of why I didn't really see her much. Yeah. I'm trying to think of more to give to Joy. Her name is Joy. Joy. Oh, so sweet.

How do you No it's funny This is all very funny No this is again I thought we had the teaser clip Now we have Just a series of teaser clips This is guys we're finally hitting our stride last episode in

Yeah finally did it Man You guys had nothing before So your children are how old now Five and ten Five and ten So wait so you had a new born back when we first, basically.

You did too. And we were being like, he's a guy. I just thought your children were older. Yeah, he was just a little guy. Yeah, he's a little guy. And now you have twins as well. How old are they? They're five months to almost a day.

Oh, my goodness, gracious. Yeah. Wow. How is that? I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's like, well, you know how it is with anybody who's had a kid is like, wow. And then it's like, add another to that. out of the whole other to that.

And it's just like, you know, it's just logistically, it's so overwhelming. But then, you know, there's, like, just this morning, I'm getting really good at holding them both and getting them both to sleep. And then, which is a collective, you know, 30-something pounds. And then sitting and rocking. for a while, which is, it's just necessary because it's like, you know, how it is when you have a baby,

like you're trying to get that baby to sleep and like, oh, you finally get the baby to sleep. It's like, well, again, you have to do that with a whole other baby. Oh, my God. So just, it's like, it's just comical. It's just comical, like, how much more challenging it is, but how, you know, anyone who, you know, anyone who's put in it, you're just like, all right, well, this is what we do now. My mom asked, she was like, how's Penn doing with the twins? and I was like, I think he's barely upright.

I think every time we get on an episode and someone asks him, he's like, uh-huh, ha, ha, ha. Because it's just madness. I mean, again. Right now he is in his pajama pants. I'll also tell you. Oh, yeah. Well, I actually told Layton, I was like, just so you know, we do video,

but I am always in sweatpants and mostly unshowered. You said unshowered and then I typed in, but I'll shower, and then it's like, I'm raising it because I don't think. I'm done it. And I didn't. I didn't. Yeah, neither am I, because too many kids right now. Yeah.

Yeah. But I wanted to ask you, so, you know, Nava brought up your grandmother, Joy, who will be, you know, the hot teaser clip. And we, I'm just thinking of how your relationship to, like, to motherhood's going and evolving. And because also, you know, I can relate to, you know, I can relate to, you know, You know, when you're a woman with your mother or a man with your father, when you are trying to start a lot of things that you maybe didn't witness their experience. And on one hand, those things can be so natural, but then as you do it, you start to realize, like, yeah, I don't think I would have had those things around.

And then, you know, and then also, I got to say, once we interviewed Adam, God, love him. Everybody wants that. But not just him, but what you guys have, you do seem to have like a really special union and the way you talk about your kids is really lovely and sweet. And I'm just wondering, you know,

just give us a five years update. Just let us know what's going on in that house of yours. I love him. So what you brought up about, like, having a child. And to me, it was so, like, being pregnant into having a baby, I didn't realize, like, you know, so much of it for me on my end. And I think a lot of people probably, you know, especially in this day and age, you're like, I'm not going to repeat the same things that, like, happened in my own upbringing.

And I had fears. Shut up millennials about all this. Oh, you're overstimulated and traumatized. You know, shocker. Everyone's fucked up. Move on. But I definitely had this. It was like I'd never thought about or considered how impactful, especially those first.

you know, the first year, the first handful of months are. And the whole, like, kind of narrative or the thing that I would say to myself and what other people would say to me was like a lot of that stuff that happened was in the first, you know, whatever, like any of the, any stuff that like separation from my parents and from my mother and those losses, like, well, I would be like, but I was so little. I don't remember. My older brother, I feel for him. He is three years older.

He remembers that stuff. But then I held my baby and I was like, oh, you know everything. Yeah, right. And this is such an important connection. And I had been so sympathetic and concerned for my own parents and their own undoing, you know. And at the same time, then I had my own children and it was like, oh, wait, I just, it actually is easy to love them. And ultimately, the only thing that I can do is love them. There's not, they're already so complete and so good and so them.

There's nothing that I can really do except for maybe make it worse. and all I can give them is like love and even when I think about specifically the idea of stability, which is something I didn't experience growing up from my examples to literal physical stability, like in a home. And it had me so concerned. It actually makes being an actor kind of hard because we have to always. be like traveling and packing and leaving. And then even with like we lost our home and it really like, you know, it's, I don't recommend it.

It's not great. Love that. Yeah. On my don't list for this year. Not on my bingo card. And yet I look at my kids and they are, it is an extremely traumatizing experience, and there will be very interesting people for it. And you can't get through this.

There's no straight line through this life, you know. You can't get out of this life without experiencing pain. And I can't shield them from that as uncontrollable. But at the same time, I learned so much. I got such a perspective shift that I didn't even think I needed from them. In my time of being like, I have to be solid for them. I have to hold them. And they are so in the moment and yes, are aware of like what happened and what can happen.

And I wouldn't hope that for them. But they also are like, they just want to play. And they just want you in this couple minutes to be like, can we play Candylands? You know, they don't really, they don't want a perfect place. They don't care, you know? They're just sort of able to be, I guess, innocent, you know, not having to be the adult. They don't have to hold our emotions. They don't have to manage us.

and they can feel sad and are facing these kind of mature or I guess you know, a real lesson in life which is like there's an impermanence but they're just so yeah, in the moment, it's such a lesson. But also just, yeah, loving them is so,

it's easy and it's natural. I mean, you know, yeah, when you look at your own baby, or when I looked at my own baby, I was like, that's like for the first time my time to sort of reflect on the young me and maybe what I needed. And there's more to your question. but I've lost it. I don't know.

I have a question because you brought up losing your home and just taking that off our, we're all taking that off our to-do list. But I'm curious, the last time you were with us, we talked a lot about the importance of community, especially as you're raising kids, and you talked about how you live in this small community and it's really special and kind of everyone's communal

with their kids, or you alluded to that. Now that it's been decimated. Well, I'm curious. Yeah, when you're uprooted from that, what have you learned about building anew, about building community itself in the face of like all that loss? Well, it's complicated because I can't help but bring this up. And I'm not doing this as, I'm not saying this as a, whatever.

I'm not going to, you know, qualify before. I think we got a new teaser clip coming. Let's go. Penny's the dog with the bone. He's not going to let that go for the rest of the episode. The rest of the season. What? What's the question?

Okay. Building community. Yeah. Building community. You said it's complicated. So it's complicated in, okay, so. We, like, you know, loved our community, and there was certainly, like, you know, you're sort of day-to-day, the things that, like, all you, I mean, for me, I'm like, well, I've lived other places. I've had other jobs. I've had other homes. I've been all over, you know. But for kids, they, like, kind of go school and home. And that's, like, they're the biggest part of their world, you know? Like, there's also the park. But those things, like, ceased to exist. And it's actually, it's, it's, In many ways, it feels like, like, I swear, a loss of innocence.

I wish in many ways that I could go back, just even for one day, and be like, I didn't know this was going to happen, and I could just enjoy my, like, home and my life there. But you can't. You can't go back. And, you know, you create your little world, you know, you walk to your life. You know, you walk to your little bodega and you have the same little shops and you do your grocery shopping. And it's just like your little world, your town.

On the flip side of that, I would say that I'm not saying it doesn't totally suck. I'm actually saying the opposite in that we're the absolute luckiest in the world. You know, we have each other. Our children are healthy. We're healthy. We were home. So we, I mean, we had to leave very quickly. Wow.

Ultimately, like- Scary, Leighton. Yeah, I mean, the like aftermath and certainly, you know, when people say like the fires that happen, like in for people who were there, like they're still happening. The like looking for, you know, trying to recover and trying to find a new home and putting your kids in new schools and all that stuff is, it's an ongoing, you know, situation. But, yeah, I think you, for me, I let go of the physical stuff, like, very quickly. I was like, that's okay, you know. even keepsakes and stuff

I'm like that's it's like you could just that's like the least important of it and that stuff trickles back in and like you know but I think where the luckiest version

you know we were insured it's certainly not you know that's not the case for everybody and actually like even insured like you're not going to whatever we're getting into the the minutia, but you're not going to be able to recover. Let's just go. Let's just

bullet point that policy. I want to know, I'm sure they've been Nickland-Domingue. I'm sure my experience with insurance companies no matter what is that they just don't insure. My dad, the fire got really close to my dad's place. It didn't, it didn't hit it. Thank God. But we started looking into his policy. We had no idea. I was completely, I didn't know insurance doesn't cover the full cost. No. Like a fraction. And I was like, that is crazy to me. Like, I truly had no idea. So there's still like a huge financial loss even when you're insured. Totally. And it's the time, yeah, during these years we go, well, do I rent? Do I, what do I do? Do we leave? Like, there's like, it just sort of shakes up your, your world.

But I guess, you know, I would say, I wish it only happened to us, you know. Like, if I could, if I could have controlled that, I'd be like, just us. That's it. Because the whole, you know, like you're in, everywhere you go, everything you do, everybody you see, like I'm never going to see those people. people again. And what was is no longer. But there is some solace as dark as it sounds that other people feel the same way. And I can't believe that that kind of severe pain can happen in such a large amount of people at one time. And then, of course, I don't I don't do this to like be like minimize or compare. But I'm like, but there is this type of thing

on a grander scale is happening all over the world, people being displaced, and they can never go home. There's never a world where they can return. And also worse and worse and worse, you know, than that. And I don't do that to, like, make myself feel better. I still am, like, aware that this is a devastation and certainly, you know, for the community, but I, yeah, and also just, yeah, I mean, you know,

it's just going to be an ongoing thing probably forever. And I was saying, like, when you say, like, that's scary, that stuff, like, you don't even, it doesn't even occur to you until later, like, yeah, that was, even just the exit was an ordeal. So it's just ongoing and, and, uh, Yeah. I'm Bing Dog. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

Do you ever find yourself scrolling through headlines, especially health headlines, and just thinking, that can't be true? Well, I certainly do. 2025 brought us some ridiculous far-fetched health claims and some especially terrifying changes in public health. What's in store for us in 2026?

I'm Chelsea Clinton, and we're back with season two of my podcast. That Can't be true. Follow along and catch up on season one wherever you get your podcasts. What you said about wishing you could go back for just a day or half an hour and just know like, oh, this is not going to last forever. I was, I mean, I think it's on TikTok, but I've seen people talk about that in parenthood, like when you're having a hard moment. like trying to get your baby to sleep or whatever the hard moment is. Like try to imagine yourself at 80 coming back for 30 minutes. And that's the only 30 minutes you have.

And you'd, you'd savor it even though right now it feels so hard, which is a hard thing to do. But I think it's a good lesson. Like I know you can't. You're after the fact. You can't go back at this moment. But moving forward. Nothing strikes again.

Because they are full of like. some really good stuff. No, there's plain wisdom, but it's also like, shut the fuck up right now. Okay, then take one of my babies. Take them. Take them for 30 minutes if you want them for 30 minutes and act like you're 80.

Yeah. I mean, seriously. Like, I mean, because, no, I completely agree. I actually completely agree. Like, we should live with the grace and mercy for ourselves and others and especially our family and especially our children, like kind of at all moments. That is the goal.

But there's a reason, there's, you know, there's like, really significant reasons why it's so difficult to do. And I think the thing that I've, so I'm now like, the, if I have any algorithm

that makes any sense, either on TikTok or Instagram. It really doesn't, his algorithm. It's parenting. Yeah. From when he sends us, it doesn't make any sense. I'm so, the algorithm is like,

is he human? What is he? What are his needs? What are his wants? He sent us a, a reel or something. I just was like, does anyone have

the Zoom link for our meeting? I don't know how to respond to this video. That's true. You didn't respond. It was the Roach, wasn't it? It was the Roach rapping. No, no,

it was the guy in the office with the markers and the little baby girl and the weird video. Wait a minute, but I just want people to know that there is a TikTok or maybe it's an Instagram

out there of a roach rapping to a man who's about to hit with his with his like his clog and then the roach starts rapping and it's like a good kensrik verse and it is so oh my god so good it's so good and i'm realizing i didn't send that to you guys sent that to somebody else who would get it and care i've seen this wrapping cockroach and it's so funny because right before he wraps his verse he goes roach like he's just it's it's i felt seen when i

saw that. I was just like, why does this make so much sense? It's so good. No, I wish I could, I wish I could quote the lyrics. Anyway, I think I was asking you something. I don't remember what it was.

Layton, when you said something really profound about, like, you were kind of making this connection with other people who will never be able to go home. And I was thinking, I don't know if anyone's had the chance to see this Malala, Yusif, Zai, she executive produced this documentary called Champions of the Golden Valley.

And it's about like the first co-ed ski team in Afghanistan. And it's incredible. This is like incredible documentary because the filmmakers were making it when the Taliban had left and Afghanistan could have something like a co-ed ski team. And then the Taliban returned right before the film had just started post. And then they had to like add this stuff because it completely changed the situation. The woman couldn't be on camera. They had to be like blurred out.

Anyway, so the film is crazy because it has these two completely different types. And it's really sad, obviously, ultimately. But the producer, I went to a screening and the producer was talking about, like, the guy that they featured was this, like, you know, had Olympic level talent and skiing. He might have been an Olympian, a former Olympian. He had to flee the country.

And he was talking about his experience in other countries. Like, as a refugee, you have left the most devastating circumstances imaginable. His family was literally getting shot at at the airport as they're, like, running onto the plane. Fortunately, he had, like, maybe in his arms. Fortunately, no one in his family was killed his immediate family, but people that he loved were, like, you've left the most devastating situation. And then you go to a new country and people look at you with like suspicion, fear or even if they're really

kind to you, they only see you as a refugee. And he was like, I want people to know that like, I'm a skier. I'm an athlete. And I was just like, I just found that so meaningful and disturbing. And like the narrative around immigrants and refugees is so different than the reality. And it's like, How do we bridge that, you know? Why is that the case? Like, anyway, so you saying that just made me think of, made me think of that. Yeah. Yeah, I know that movie.

I haven't seen it. Adam went to a screening of it. I was the one he was at. He introduced it. Oh, really? Oh. Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's amazing. And I think it's, it's, it just goes to show also like, oh, God. Like, trauma, like, like, just. over and over, like generational trauma, all these like, you know, and for what? Like, it really crushes human potential, you know, in a group of people who could be, there could be doctors and people who are writers and scientists. And it's like, oh, you're not even allowed to do any of that. You're not allowed to express yourself. Yeah, it's unbelievable. I mean,

I would say that he, that in. Brooklyn here what I've not seen you know homelessness is one thing and that's its own you know spend it spend an entire podcast series on that but but the the number of like immigrant families that I now see or at least you know mothers with with a number of children of mixed ages but then actually a lot of times families what's clear is that there are now there are families who are just sort of they have no options so they come here and then they come here and they have no options and um to be you know to see it i think it's it's it's it's a little bit of a it's like an old feeling but a new feeling because it's it's like it's it's compounded homelessness it's it's it's

such a what it makes me feel when i see it is like wow there is nothing that can be done immediately about that without, without everyone reorienting. And, you know, what I've been thinking about recently, just given how nationalistic, you know, it feels like the great powers of the world are becoming even more kind of embattled and entrenched in that position, that mindset,

is like how truly, like, it's one thing to say, you know, we are all family, you know, the whole world as a family. But actually think of a family system. Like a family system is something you cannot leave. And even when, you know, the more you fight and ignore it, the more the trauma compounds and complexifies. And it's, and it's, death doesn't stop it.

You know what I mean? Death doesn't stop it at all. The people who continue on are the people who are left with it and have to sort it out. And so I've been thinking, rather than thinking of it as like a really weak platitude that the earth is one family, I've been thinking of it more as like, oh, this is a family system

because none of us can leave it, which is the only sort of system that you can't leave. It's the only sort of group, you know what I mean? It's the only sort of organization. It's the only sort of like body that even if you leave it, it's like, no, you're still a part of it. And you just created something worse by believing you could exit it, you know? So if we didn't have the teaser, we now do.

You're like, even if they die, they come back and hold. want you. You have to deal with that. Well, Layton, last time you were here, we barely talked about your career. And we promised each other we would because you, I mean, you've had an amazing career,

but I feel like I heard someone on the carpet say this. Layton's having a renaissance. And it's totally true. You're on every streamer. Like every, you're on HBO, you're on Apple, you're on Prime, you're on Netflix. And they're all amazing and it all has like such different range.

So I wanted to start with Buccaneers. if you're down. It's hard to talk about your character without getting into crazy spoiler territory. So I wanted to just ask you how you prepared to enter that period world, the period affect, if you have like a favorite period show or book,

sort of what can you share with us? Let's see. Well, I really love Edith Wharton and that's what that, you know, that whole time period and obviously like, you know, I think that that show in particular has sort of retroactively given, like, a voice and dignity to women of that time period. And I really like the way that they execute it.

I really admire even just, like, my character coming in, I think it's okay to say. And if it isn't, I don't care. I'm the mom. Essentially, I'm the mother who gave up the child. and she's, you know, discovered that she's, I don't know, another way to say it, illegitimate is sort of how she's, you know, she calls it in the show. And that devastates her, but then also because of the right circumstances, she's sort of accepted. But my character has lived this lifetime of pain.

of feeling like she made the worst mistake in the world and lost her whole family because of it, even though it was ultimately the right decision, but she's just survived by, like, shoving down her feelings. So that felt, you know, I felt like it, the pain and the sort of way that a person during this time period would manage the pain, it all felt fairly, you know, current. I feel like it wasn't necessarily just trying to understand

how someone in that period would, you know, deal with it. It's like, yeah, that's kind of how it is now. There's a lot that is, you know, unspoken or, you know, said in hush tones. but the other side of it was that they were really fancy clothes and we shot at castles and we rode in carriages and I was you know there were some like more lighthearted and humorous moments too and I just I couldn't believe that I was squealing like a like a child I was like in the back of a carriage and I was like oh my god like I just like I was you know really excited by they they They wore hats, and the hats make, they don't do anything.

They're not for sun, they're not for warmth. They're this small, and they are so silly. And it's just so ridiculous. It's so fun. And we were just in these like five, six hundred year old castles. And it was just gorgeous and picturesque. But I love Age of Innocence is one of my favorite movies and like the most unsatisfying, like,

love story. It's not a rom-com by any means, but I just... No, I love the unsatisfying love story. He only likes unsatisfying love story. Like, I can't even talk about it. It makes me want to cry. That movie. It's, uh, it is sunset. You're right? Suns says, love that.

Um, but, yeah, what, was that the answer? No, that you're looking for? That was even more. And that's, I didn't realize you guys were filming at actual castles. That's incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, Scotland. It's really, it's green. It rains there. I watched the first episode of Good Cop, Bad Cop, Last night. Oh my God. So funny. Yeah, so funny.

And your first scene where you come in and you're interrogating, like a suspector or so, I guess, made me think about you as a mom and wonder, like, how do you discipline as a mom? You were so good in your character, Lou, just like kills him with kindness and like massages this information out of him like a real mom. And I wondered if you and Adam have like a good cop, bad cop situation and who's who? Not exactly.

But I think like the character is, I think she's got like a maternal quality. She's very like, I think and I don't know, I'm totally probably misquoting, but John Quaintiffs who was the showrunner and the writer, I swear I feel like he was like she's folksy as fuck. That was the description. That's great. And I was like, that's how I would do it if I had to like in tearing. It's like, I mean, she's tough and she's seen it.

You know, she's seen some bad stuff, but she's like, you know, friends with everybody. And I think that I'm going to call your mom tactic is a, you know, I think that every parent has to resort to it to some extent. whether you want to say yes or no, you go, let me just ask your dad, you know? And it does help more than good cop, bad cop, but just like, it just helps if you're sort of aligned in how you're going to deal with certain things. I think that like the small stuff kind of takes care of itself,

the big things, you, if you're aligned, it kind of helps everything else. Totally. Yeah. My husband and I, there's one thing we cannot get aligned on, and it annoys me every time it comes up. Our toddler has started having night terrors, and he thinks you should wake her up when she's having the night terror.

And I think, no, you just have to let her get through it. I should Google that. Every time the two of us are like, get out of them. I'm dealing with it. Guys, just search that thing. There's definitely some info out there. Yeah, yeah, I have. But what?

And you're supposed to let it go. So your informed opinion is that David is wrong. Yes, but he says, I experienced night terrors and my mom always woke me up. And I said, well. Yeah, it's like, and how do you feel about your mom? Don't bring my mom into this. Wait. So what is the night, what does a night terror look like?

It looks like, just like sudden, like, intense. tense crying or screaming. And they can't, they're kind of in a daze. Like you can't, they're not answering you when you come to them and ask them questions or like come to soothe them.

And it's just like consistent for sometimes 10 to 20 minutes. Wow, that's a really long time. Yeah. How does it make you feel to know that you're responsible for that? Well, I have this stuff. People have been like, is there psychological damage from a night tear? No.

I don't know. But what causes it? Like, what is it bad drinking? Like sickness? Bad parenting. No, no. It's not parenting. I promise.

Yeah, easy for you to say. The blog post I read about it said it's not marriage. The parent influencer who I'm following, whose children have night tears, swears. Apparently a big one is sickness or like if it's too hot or too cold. Yeah. But she's been sick a lot the last month. So that's why. Okay.

Anyway. I had an experience where this isn't going to be a funny story, but I'll just say that out in front of it. I was in. Great. Yeah. Let's record it. I was in Liberia.

This is such a great. I don't even know I'm telling you this. But so I was with my, so Adam's brother had like a surf hostel there. And we went and stayed there for a couple weeks. It was, like, beautiful and, you know, pretty off the grid. And at one point, this, like, crew of fishermen guys from South Africa came on their boats. And they brought, like, all this, like, raw fish. And we were like, we were kind of, you know, there wasn't a lot to snack on at the time.

It was like, you know, I won't go into it. But anyway, we ended up sharing this little, like, house. with this one guy, and he had night terrors. And there was no ceiling, so you could just hear everything in the other rooms. And it was, he would wake up in the middle of the night. And the first time this happened, I was like, we're going to die. Like, this is something bad as happening. It was him.

Just imagine in the middle of the night, shit! Just screaming. Like, and I was like, is he being eaten? by a snake. Like, I don't know what's happening. I was so scared. I was like, is he going to come in here? And the next day we're like, so...

What was that? What's up? And I guess he just... It happens to him every night. Oh, do I have a night terror? Every night. Yeah, sure. I probably should have mentioned it.

And then the last night, he... I didn't hear the night terror, but he had very loud sex. Oh, my God. And it sounded just like the night terror. And now I wake up going, shit. Oh, shit! This guy sounds like a trooper, man. Yeah.

Well, speaking of sex, I love L.A., another show that you're part of it. Yeah. Where's this going? You're so funny in that show. What strikes me about that show is that there does seem to be like a clear Gen Z millennial divide. And I was just curious because the actors on set, I think, are also kind of correspond to that. If you feel that line in real life or if it's like much more blurred. And I'm also just curious, like, Rachel is like so, like, the lead.

Like, she's so powerful and in command, like, in every aspect of that show. So I was just curious, like, what you admire about Rachel, about Gen Z women in general. Well, I don't, I wouldn't say that there was, like, I just thought every one, one was pretty cool and nice and talented. And I will say I noticed that everyone seemed really confident in a way that when I was young, I was, and maybe it just seems that way is like, I don't know, from the outside, but I'm like, they're pretty sure of themselves, you know? I think like they're much more able to,

like lead with and sort of find strength in their quirks and their imperfections in a way that at the very least like when I was that age or younger um that felt like a no no you know like you can't you can't you can't really open up um you kind of have to be more uh you know perfect and So I think I do admire that. At some point, like, at some point, like, Rachel asked me to do a TikTok with her, and I've never been more scared of something in my entire, I've never been more, like,

and she just opened it and was like, flip, flip, flip, flip, like showing me, like, ideas and, like, directing me, you know. And I was like, there's so much pressure, like, to get it right, because you're so like mouthing something. And then also, it took so long. Like I, you know, you watch a clip and it's like funny and, and, and, and, and click. And there's a lot of, there is, maybe it just took long because I was doing it. No, it's both.

I mean, I think even, I think even the most fluid and like, fluent TikToker, like, Gen Z, Gen Alpha. I think it still ends up taking up a lot of time. Like it all takes, I think there's still for all of the, like, you know, the removal of the millennial pause. And you're right. There's just like, there is something that's very, there's a sheen in a filter, ironically, that's like not there for the young ins that, like, when we were in our 20s and especially anything that was like public facing,

there was like, even if you didn't want to put it in there, there was so much infrastructure and so much like perfection that was trying to be achieved. and so much like production value. But even for all that, even for all the, like, there is some authenticity, there is some spontaneity, and there is something that is kind of like novel

and charming and good about that. I think there's still so much like, just time, just time and preparation and like, you know, like skill. It's a skill to actually do that stuff and a post. I know that every time, get on either TikTok or Instagram. The format has changed because it's been updated and I'm like, how do I

post something? Where is the button to post something? I swear it's not here. And I'm texting Sophie. I'm like, hey, sorry, time difference. I know you're not awake, but I need this right now because the episode's out and I've got to post something. He's just texting her, how do I hit

post? That has happened multiple times. I swear the button was there yesterday. But then to my Sometimes I have shown you stuff and you're like, yeah, that's weird. That is weird. No, Instagram did do a really big change on how you post. It took me a minute to figure it out.

Late night. And I never figured it out. Well, Penn's going to make me edit this out because I don't think he wants this credit. But a lot of people refer to him as the king of TikTok. Like in our audience, we get that a lot. You're the king of TikTok? But TikTok, you know what we know about TikTok? For some people.

TikTok, unlike Instagram, where, see, the thing about the new algorithms is this They only show you what, like, they're now, the comment section is no longer a place where you get hate, it's where you get indiscriminate love. So, sure, our comments probably call me the king of TikTok. And while they're biased, they're right. Sometimes the bias is accurate. No, come on, guys, I have like 5 million followers.

You have to have, you know, I have to have like at least 50 to be the king of something. I think you're the king of TikTok. I've also, I've heard you guys say that he's a king of. Yeah, that's what it is. That's what it goes together. Yeah. I was trying to think of an adjective to describe your episode of nobody wants this. And the only adjectives that were coming to me were like food related, like yummy, scrumptious. I just thought I just ate it up. I loved it so much. And specifically your scenes with Adam and then that line he has raised like, she's not my type. So,

I squeed. Touch good writing. Squeed. But I was curious, you know, I know you love the show. I know you've said that. But what was the best part of working on that show and then also of working across Adam? That, it's so funny because I find it to be stressful

a lot of the time coming into a show that's kind of already going. It's like catching up and being like, okay, I don't have much time to do. what I have to do and I have to go in and like prove or just at least say the lines, okay? Like, you know, you just have to do a good job and you don't have like a ramp, you know, you can't really ramp up. But I think a combo of like knowing him and now everybody else, like I've spent some time with everybody else there. It felt homie and, you know, nice. It wasn't like, too much of an alien like I'm a guest, you know, and I don't know anybody.

And, yeah, also just the show, like, you know, everybody behind the camera, like, really allows you for, like, all the space to play. And so that was really great. There was never, like, they were just encouraging and supportive and, um, yeah, it felt, it feels, it felt good. It felt like very, like, you know. It felt so fun and easy for you. That's what I, I just got the sense

that you did feel right at home. Yeah. I'm curious, how did it come about? Was it something where, like, after the first season, you and Adam were talking in a way, we're like, oh, that'd be fun if I did something. I'm just curious because I feel like it was, I can't think of a comparison,

but it just, it just really did feel like a perfect, Okay, you know back in the heyday of like the Judd Apatatow comedies and you'd get like the cameos where it's just like, you're just like everybody, just a good cameo, you know? And it's like even though half the time you're thinking of the fact that that's the person, you just like it still just makes the whole thing better. And it's just, you know, that's what it felt like to me. How did it come about?

Was it something that you had suggested? Was it something that did they approach you kind of and you and Adam were both like, oh, yeah, I hadn't thought about that. But this is funny. I think they brought it up, like, early on, maybe even the first season. They're like, well, we'll see, you know, if there's something for her somewhere. And how that came up is I'm just sleeping with him. So I got it.

My little taste of nepotism. Slipped your way to the top. Exactly. And then I think they just, like, had this idea and this sort of, Either they'd had the episode. I think they already had it. And he came home one day and was like, I think they're going to send you a script.

And they came to him and they were like, would she want to do it? And he's like, send it to her and see what she says. And I said yes. I was like, yeah, I think also because I saw it on the page and was like, this will be really fun to do. But I actually didn't even realize how much, like, it was so, it was very fluid and very,

very, I think it speaks to the writing, actually, of the show. I had so much fun, and it was fairly, like, natural with, you know, Adam and Justine and Kristen and then Joe, Gillette, who played my husband, who was so funny. That's right, yeah. And, yeah, just, like, being able to be encouraging and, like, open, and there wasn't, um, it was actually like amazing to be on a show and for them to be like do that thing again you know just like instead of being like and let's do just a scripted version and and and we were losing light you know it was so not that and it felt really just like free and um relaxed and also just instantly feeling comfortable and also not for nothing this is so not the reason to do a show but i got to drive there with adam and it was just fun it's just so fun. That's so cute.

And they're like, do you want your own trailer? I was like, no. No, no need my own trailer. You know, just so nice. It's really nice. We got to like hang out with one another. Well, just while we're on the topic of Adam, Adam guested on our show.

I don't know if you had a chance to listen to his episode. I sure did. Oh, you did? Okay, sweet. I'm going to still quote you something that he said, because I really want to hear your take on it. So Adam said, I guess you guys met on a film. Was it called oranges?

Anyway, he said, I was smitten for a long time. I didn't get to know her for many years after, even though we worked together briefly, and she's so lovely, and she's so sweet, she's so nice, she's so good. Yet, you know, and this is to her credit, she remained elusive to me for so long and aloof. I couldn't get a total read

because even though she professes to have been interested in me and all those things, not only did she not pursue that, but she was perfectly willing to let it never happen. There were many false starts, and she was perfectly willing to let that message in the bottle return to see. And I thought about that for a long time, and I've always been curious.

Play hard to get, ladies. What's your side of that? Were you willing to let that never happen? Like, yeah, just what's your take on that? That is really, oh, so sweet and, like, poetic. And also then it turns into, like, God damn it. Like, what's like doing? So I actually think, Penn, you were there when we met,

for the very first time. We met at Cantors. You know, Canter's Deli? Yeah. So I don't know if that's. Yeah, I remember being around you both at some point way back. Like, we're talking, like, I dimly remember. And this is, and I know that it was so dim and fleeting that,

God, I don't even know. I mean, it certainly wasn't on my radar that you guys knew each other, really. But yeah, maybe I was there. Maybe it was like some other. I remember we were, the time I remember you guys both been in the same room, because I think Josh Schwartz was also there. Yeah, I think it was at Nicole's house. Nicole had a birthday.

That's right, yeah. That would have been one of the first times that I met Adam, but I think the very first time... You don't remember the first time I laid eyes on Adam? Yeah, I might have been there. But now in retrospect, the whole world makes sense to me. No, we were here, we were in L.A. for, like, whatever the... Not the up front, but like the L.A. yeah, version.

And we had, like, kind of a late, like it was like a lot of interviews and stuff and then we ended up at Canters and it was kind of late. Okay. Yeah. That's ringing a bell. Yeah. And it was like we were all sitting at a table and Adam who used to go there just like, you know, all the time. I think he lived nearby. He was there and came up to say hi. And then that was the first time we met. And I think he, I don't want to say half of the story because it's a little weird. But does that, There was one nice half of the story. He was like, I like her. Like, I think, you know, about me to clarify.

And then I saw him again at Nicole, this was probably the next time that I ever saw him. And kind of talked to him and was like, okay. But I had to give it like a solid, you know, five years. Until I was ready. You really test him. Yeah. But really, like, I mean, like, we did a movie together.

He had a girlfriend at the time who was very sweet and, you know, who I liked. And in fact, produced and directed, I Love L.A. Oh, wow. And then after that, in between, I ended up going on a kind of a date or two with him. and then and then I dated someone else for like almost a year who you kind of knew, Penn. And then, yeah, just I feel like the timing ended up being right. And I like the idea of like, I mean, whenever I talk to like married couples, I'm like, how'd you meet? A lot of the time there's like sort of missed, like, you know, there's like, you know, there's like,

starts and like, oh, I thought that he liked my roommate or, you know, there's a lot of that and it ends up being like, oh, that was my, that was my husband the whole time. But I think I was, I don't know if I was, I think I just had to like see about a couple of other people. Yeah, got to go see about a guy. But like, yeah, but not, but now I go like, why did I do that? Like, that was the wrong move, obviously. but was it because then I ended up in the timing. Yeah, because the timing may not have been right. I mean, that's, yeah.

I think ultimately, though, it would have been right, you know, because he is the right person and he's, but I would argue that he's the right person for a lot of people. He's just a really good person. I'll tell you one thing, please. I'll tell you one thing, please. Penn. You want to confess something?

I think he's on the record. I think he's already confessed it. It actually made me curious, just if you philosophically, or someone, like, when you really want something, are you kind of like, if it's meant to be to work out, do you, like, pursue it a lot? Because I guess I formed the idea that, like,

she's just like, chill. Like, if she wants something, she just, like, it'll come to her if it's meant to be. But I don't know if that's true, if that's just something I, like, you know, wrongly concluded. No, I think that's true to some extent. I think I do obsess sometimes, though.

So I don't 100% go, just let it be and it'll be like I don't do that all the time. I'm like, oh, I got to, you know, check in on it. But I don't, I think with that, it wasn't like, I think that I, you know, we were still kind of young. And so it wasn't like, it didn't feel like pressure. And it didn't seem like that long of like, like, We dated and put time in and is this going to be a thing? It just once we gave it the time that. And when I say the time, I mean like five days, we're like, oh, okay.

Like, there it is, you know. And so in that way, I think, like, it was timing. It's luck. It's just being like we both happened to be single at the same time. And so, yeah, I feel like, and really truly able to. recognize how lucky we were to find each other and to be together. Who was saying that they asked their husband, who you'd marry if I was dead.

Was it you something? It's definitely Sophie. I love that so much. And I get that. The mark of insanity. If they're ever plus one, it's just like, oh. I love it. I think it's such a good move.

I think actually, okay. It is, it's iconic, but it is also. Oh, okay. Because it's inevitably leading to being like, oh, so. Oh. Is it? No, I truly don't feel I would feel that way. But you don't know because you've not gotten an answer.

I would. I really don't think I would. It'd be fine. I just feel, I think what I after. We posted that clip and people were like, you're crazy. I was like, I think I'm just, I feel really secure in our relationship. Like, he could say any name. He could say my best friend.

And I'd be like, yeah, but we're good. You know. My sister. That, I, yeah, no. Oh, she gets awkward and quiet now. No, I was going to say, any name. No, I was going to say when I first met David, I was with my sister. And I always give him a hard time that he thought she was cute and not instead of me.

And so I was going to, and he's like, you're insane. You actually don't know what I was thinking and you're insane. But it might also be on to something. I'm just here fully, like, standing the flames. No, but I actually, I think there's something to that because someone recently asked me, as if, find any authority whatsoever. Like, what's your, what's the secret to like, like, how do you do it? How do you date in this business or whatever?

And there's no secrets just like like each other, get along and like, there's other pieces to the puzzle for sure. But I was like actually truly in like facing like what you're assuming is going to be a life with somebody. I go, well, what would it be like to be a good year? maybe think this is psychotic. What would it be like to break up with this person? And if they're going to be cool.

And I guess you always assume like, oh, it would be fine and we would be fine. But I go, I know that he has good taste. Like I think like a lot of his ex-girlfriends seem cool. And like, you know, he has, he's a good person. So he'd probably choose somebody really amazing to be like a stepmom to my kids who also love them. and just pen quietly. You're psychotic. I can't say it.

The same way I say it to Sophie, but I would plead the fear. But I would go, you know, like, and if I died, I'd be like, I hope. I wouldn't be there. I mean, I would be haunting them, obviously. But I would return. But I would return.

I would hope that he would like obviously be with somebody amazing, whoever he chooses. But if it was my best friend, that would be cool. Because I would know that like they're kind of like me in many ways. Like they're, you know, and they love my children. And yeah. I do think you actually get to know a lot about a person in a breakup. Like I have had a few breakups. So do it then.

There was one breakup in particular. that I'm like, oh, you showed me your true colors. As soon as we broke up, like, I saw it. And so I don't think, I don't think that's psychotic of you to, like, go through that thought process. Yeah, you have to imagine. And maybe not, like, in a relationship as much, but just, like, when you bring kids into it, you go, well, like, hopefully this, I don't have plans for it. And I don't want that to happen.

But you can't plan for everything. And so I just go, well, you seem like a decent, good person. And my friends are cute. Marry, my friend. Exactly. Just do it. I mean, I'm sure Adam isn't like this, but I did. I was seeing someone who was like really sweet, had all these amazing qualities,

broke up mostly because of circumstances. He wrote me the most vitriolic. It was like shocking the thing that he wrote me. And it was just like just no, I would have never predicted that from him. So you just really never know how people would take a breakup. Yeah. Yeah. Careful.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah, no, you can never tell. You also don't anticipate breaking up with somebody necessarily when you get in there. But it's sad. It's a loss. Unless they're an asshole. And you're like, thank God.

I'm like, whoa. Dad's that thought. But people do that sometimes. They turn all of like the positive feelings that you could have, even if something's over, to hate. They go, I don't mean to actually make you hate me. Why do they do that? They can't help themselves. Layton, what is your relationship to fashion?

Are you like a fashion girlie? How do you feel about it? I think I enjoy it. I think I enjoy it. You know, it's kind of come full circle for me because when I started working when I was young, I didn't know anything. And suddenly I was like in this sort of fashionable show,

which I felt that I had an opinion that carried through to my character that I appreciated, like, collaborating on. And it was very distinct. But I didn't know the first thing about, like, any of it, honestly. Like, not only style, but, like, designers or any of that. And suddenly I was like, I don't know anything, but I'm just going to have to go along with it. And that remains mostly true still.

I just know what I like and what feels right. And then, you know, in recent years, I've enjoyed it in like a work environment. I think it does a lot on set for me to the final piece of a character to be like, you know, what you're wearing does make an impact on how you feel about a character and embodying somebody else. And at the same time, a lot of the time, this job, is not glamorous at all. It's like there's porta potty's and mud and like they're like your mark is laying on the cement. Go, that's where you're laying tonight, you know, and it's like late nights and you're wearing like layers, you're cold, you're hot, whatever. It's just not like always so

glamorous. And then you go to like a fancy event or party or award show or whatever and you're a gown and I actually kind of enjoy that, you know? It's like the moment to be glamorous and it feels very, yeah, rewarding and just enjoyable. But also like heels that hurt are gone. Like I can't do that, you know. I do, if I wear shoes that don't that hurt, like it's my night is just everyone I talk to. I go, hi, my feet hurt, you know, is like, every, you know, is like, all night long. So just, you know, being able to breathe is good. You know, that's it.

What do you, what would you consider her most, her most iconic? What do you think is Blair's most iconic outfit? Do you have one? I don't know. I think the thing about her is that she wore headbands. And that was sort of like discussed early on as like her crown. You know, she's a queen. So, um, that's like.

like her accessory. But as far as outfits go, I don't know. I'm not sure. I think we did like re-imagining of like some old Hollywood movies that were kind of fun, like my fair lady and stuff. I thought that was kind of cool. Yeah.

You're watched the show pen. Did you watch Gossip Roll? Did I? Don't put me on blast like that. Okay, sorry. Are you seen every bit of it? No, definitely not. No, I stopped watching, I think, pretty early on, you know, like probably second season, which is still, I mean, I've watched at least 30 or 40 episodes of it probably, right?

Which is a lot. That's a lot of hours and, you know. This isn't about me. Have you watched it, Blair? Have you watched it late? I haven't watched it recently, I think. No, no, not at all. I haven't seen it in probably, you know, a long time.

I do, I think to show like my stepson and it would be kind of interesting maybe a little bit. Now that I really feel like a lot of time has passed in perspective. And it doesn't feel like it would be hard to watch. I don't think. I mean, maybe I'm wrong. Yeah, I think you're wrong. Yeah. No, well, it was on TV on like Wednesday nights or something.

Actual TV. It was on actual TV. Oh, you mean back in the day? Yeah. And so we would work during those times. So unless you were recording it, you'd miss it. And so I think at some point I just missed it and just never caught up. You've never seen it late.

No, I've seen it. I think like Penn, like I probably saw like a handful in the beginning. And then it just, like, timing-wise, couldn't work. It was just not easy to keep up on it. It wasn't streaming at the time. Yeah. And now am I going to go do it? Eventually, I think I will someday.

It already does feel a little like vintage. The phones, the blackberries and like the screens. Yeah. Yeah. I bet you have some vintage other stuff in there, too. Yeah, there is. There's a lot of vintage stuff there. Yeah.

Some vintage, you know, baked-in misogyny from. Yeah, storylines. We won't torture you with too many more. I have two more. I don't know if Penn or Sophie do, but one is just what was your favorite, if you remember, what was your favorite Blair storyline?

Blair had got up to some crazy things. Let's see. I really liked, more than storylines, I just liked working with certain people. I really liked it when my, like, girlfriends were there. So, like, Alice and Nicole. and Amanda specifically. And then Zuzana.

Have you spoken to Zazana in any recent time? No. I saw Amanda's brother, like, I want to say, like, just a few months ago. Did you work with him? No, no, no. I don't remember. Oh, wait, yes. Yes, yes, I did. No, I was thinking it was just on the street, but it was just on the street, but it was on set. It's funny about your world.

You're like, which? You're like, oh, is it a real street? Yeah. Oh, but it was real street. but I was in fake clothes. Okay, yes, it was at work. And he was like lighting. Yeah.

He just always told to boom, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I really liked working with them. Yeah. Was it a nightmare when you had to do all the scenes with Penn? He's a divan on set. Definitely not.

I will say absolutely not. Penn, you were incredibly and still are very talented, very, you know, I would say professional. Like, that's not even something that enters my mind. You were and are, but I just mean, like, that wasn't even, like, a thought. It was just more like, you're just cool and good at it. Thanks.

Thank you. He's like, please stop. Stop the line of the conversation. No, no, no. I mean, I think, I remember us working together, and I remember it being late in the game, wasn't it? Wasn't it late in the whole? Yeah.

They, like, matched us up later. And I think we both were just like, all right. Yeah. That was my memory of, like, yeah. just another thing that happens on this show. They're like, we had lots of others. It was bound to happen. Totally.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, I know you guys are not going to give an exciting. I perceive you're not going to give an exciting answer to this, but I'm going to ask because we get, this was my second question. We get this comment a lot, which is basically like Blair or Dan, or sometimes they refer to you by your real name's Layton Penn.

Do you dare to dare? Do you guys know what that is? Do we dare to dare? Right. Which is saying, do we ship dare. Do we, do we, which, which, which, which, be clear is it or do we do we do we do we like that relationship of our character the most yeah yeah yeah it's like i think people really want to know if you guys like shipped if you if you if you hoped

that those two characters would have ended up together i think is what people know i don't think so i mean i i i think it's safe to say that it's like no i'm trying to say you don't care sorry well no but it's but it's like okay so let me really think about the character if i'm invested in an outcome and then i think like i think he probably ended up with who he was meant to end up with. I mean, right? Like, it's just sort of, yeah,

seems to me. Yeah. And then, and then, and then, and then Blair, I was like, I was thinking like,

who does she end up with? Yeah, I think she ended up with, she ended up with, I think they ended up with who they were really meant to beat with, you know? Mm-hmm.

If I remember correctly, it's been, but hold on, wait, I didn't let Layton answer. Oh, yeah, please. No, I think, I think you're right.

I just, okay, you, you saying, Gossip Girl is dead Wait is that we Yeah Yes

Yes Oh yeah that clip is going viral Is well Oh really? Yeah It's like a behind the scenes Clip of Penn Trying to say the line

But he can't And he just keeps laughing Yeah And then I think Layton We can send it to you And then you say grow up It's so funny

Oh no Oh no No don't It was the funny It's so funny That is It took so long. That is one of the funniest.

Yeah. I'd like to hear you say it, honestly. Right now? Come on, come on. Give it to a word. I'm not giving it. I'm not even giving us that teaser. Because that would be...

But here's the thing, Doctor Girl isn't dead. She's so well and alive. This is the only thing she's so alive and well, you know? And I don't want to kill her now. Like, now I want, I wish her well. I absolutely wish her well. The reason it was so hard to say back then, because I was like, I can't. I can't believe this is ending right now.

Really? I literally was like, it's been so long and it's ending. And I was just like, and I'm like, I wasn't even 26 yet. And I was like, oh my goodness. And I'm not even trying to say like, oh, I hated it and I want it off. No, it was just more like, it was like, wow, this thing, this thing that has defined my life more than anything I know how to define defining life. Like, it's ending. And, and it, you know, like, maybe this is just the way I'm built,

but, like, I don't think I ever am sad to see things come to an end. I just don't think it's just not a part of my, you know. And, and like, and I just was like, this is rad. And I was, and because I was saying those words, I just thought I was like, this is too much. This is too. I understand why it's funny. Yeah.

It's so funny. Let me explain this to you more, though. Wait, so I'm sorry. So actually, were you happy or were you sad? No, but it transcends those emotions is what I'm saying. Sorry. But no, just now, I guess I got confused because I was like, oh, that, yes, it was awful. But actually, I didn't feel like it was awful.

I just thought that it was so funny that you were saying that. It's the most, like, absurd thing that you could possibly say. No, you said he was thinking. this is so rad that this is anything. Okay. But you couldn't say it, and it was so, so funny. And the fact that I'm going to be able to potentially find this somewhere and we're going to watch. We'll send it to Penn.

It's partly real searchable. Everything is so searchable now. Yeah. But that wasn't like on the show. It would have been a blooper, I guess. That is so funny and insane. I know. I just remember being like sweating.

I was laughing so hard. Everyone was dying. It was too much. It was just, yeah. There was another time where I think Blake had to say something like I killed someone. Again, like, absurd. And I couldn't. I remember hearing about this.

Because it was a scene with you guys. Yeah. And you circle, full circle. Full circle. I'm sorry, it's just so funny that these kids are meant to be 17 and they're like, they're killing people. and they're getting people out of jail and they're like hiring and firing people.

It's just, I mean, come on. So that's what, I'm not even, this isn't, this isn't, like, this is not a fault of, this is not some kind of, like, denigration of the writers. Like, they were creating, you know, prime television of its time.

And it was like, that's what, it was, that's what people wanted, like, all good, all great. But it's so crazy. Like, when you're the people, when you're the person or some of the few people who have to say the things, to make them real?

I mean, guys, come on, it's just crazy. That's the same. So in that moment, like that moment, you know, you're saying, like I killed so-and-so. In that moment, I think I was just like, it's just like the convergence of the many things and it feeling so meta. It's just like, I can't. It's too, you know, so anyway. Yeah.

Well, it's also just like it was campy. It was like, like, so camp. Yeah, so can be. Like, silly in comedy and, like, this show started out very differently than it ended, and then also went through many cycles of repeating the same, some of the same stuff again and again. But the death, the killing or the, like, that stuff is like, absolutely. I mean, it's a whole shit. It's, it is absurd.

It's like a 15-year-old being, like, at a bar, like, I'll have the usual. So, like, you know, we're already above and beyond weird. But that was such a highlight, the fact that, like, I think of it often that you... But I couldn't say it. I get like I said grow up. I'm sure that it was, like, the 35th time. No, because it literally, no, because everybody was, it was really funny. And then it got to a point where I was like, oh, my God, I can't, I can't say it.

I actually, something's happening. Like, and now I actually can't say it. What would have happened if you couldn't say it? Because you kind of couldn't. I don't think you did. I think he was like, you know what? I would watch that. At some point, he says like, I think you got it.

But like clearly he like barely made it to that. I'm so excited to have this. He's like, it's in there. That must be in the last episode, right? I think maybe I will watch the last episode. Yeah, one of the last thing. Yeah. Yeah.

I've been looking for some clips from Pod Crush for something. And I've looked in our episode with Conan O'Brien. He talked about watching Gossip Girl. He watches with his kids or watched. and he said one of his favorite things was how it's like 15 year olds like buying and selling stock or like being like air

to the father's company To a 45 year old man Pull the jet up Yeah Yeah, exactly Amazing Well I think we are to our final question Because we asked you it before

I wonder, would we want to ask Layton what advice her 12-year-old self would give her now? Would we want to stick to? That's right. We had a few ideas. No, but I actually, I like that. What do you think your 12-old self might have to say to you know? I would probably have more questions than advice, but also I think I just... We haven't baked that question as long.

It may be a hard one to answer. No, I'm just like, I would probably be like, grow up. But. Yeah. Which is a fair point. She'd probably be like, you didn't ever grow up. You didn't ever mature? Yeah, I don't know.

I mean, I think like I am me at 12, you know? Like I've become more that in recent times as much as I was maybe in a hurry or pressured to or felt the need. to be more grown up and more together. Now I'm like, oh no, I really was like, I was so strong and, you know, capable. And I was, I was good enough. And I don't think, I think. that it's not something that I really grew into. I think it was just like

the only thing that I've grown into is like realizing it and accepting that like maybe I was always pretty strong, you know? But very connected to my feelings, which I think is synonymous to me as being strong, being vulnerable. So sweet.

Love you. Layton, it's always so nice to talk to you. Same, you guys, I really needed that. I was cackling, cackling. I'm like sweating. I'm laughing. I know. I know.

I'm actually sweating too. Oh, so good. And here we are, as they say. Who says that? There are people. There are people. I feel like I've seen it everywhere now. It's been co-opted by the forces of the co-op.

Here we are. You know? Co-opt, not co-op. There's a huge difference between co-op and co-opt. Consider. As it turns out. As it turns out. It's a huge, God, I'm like a professor.

Like a professor in the inane, the mundane, and the banal. Okay. So at the end of this crushed pod, how, A, how are you feeling? I wish we were together. Yeah. That's what I'm feeling. Yeah. That makes three of us.

See, I was authentic. I was authentic for the last one. I was joking, but serious, when I feel like all of our friendships now will become a little bit more authentic because we don't have to do the podcast host thing. The roosting. We definitely made it our thing, not our thing, because that's what I think everybody has to do to a degree. And it is fun. I do see the purpose that it serves. But we had to learn how to do that.

It's true and learn what each other's, like, what goes, what doesn't go. Not, I don't think we explicitly ever said, like, don't talk to me about that thing. But, yeah, I feel like it was a learning process of, like, how far can we push each other? Like, just how much of a third wheel can we make Sophie, et cetera, et cetera. Like, just how much can, I mean, we got David out right away. No four wheels on this vehicle. We want a bicycle. Yeah.

How are you feeling? never. Yeah, I wish we were together. I'm sad that we're not. I'm feeling curious. Like, Podcrush has been such a big part of my life for the last four or five years. So I'm like, what is life without it? So I'm trying not to feel that in a sad way. I'm trying to feel that in a curious way. How about you, Penn? Ecstatic, bleeful. You're not going to get that. He's been dancing more every day. Yeah. It's like, it's over. Woo! Well, if anybody, if anybody, if anybody, if anybody who knows me, I love nothing more than like a canceled appointment,

just because it frees. I'm like, oh, that hour and a half chunk that I was going to have busy, I don't. And so, yeah, I don't, I tend to see the end of things as, as like a really exciting curiosity, kind of as you were saying, Neva. There's always a bittersweetness. There's always a poignancy, right? And this one, this one is surreal because this really has taken up art. this has been our thing for way more than we could have anticipated any of us.

This has just become like what we do, you know what I mean? And it's had to be a labor of love because it's just been, it's been enough work that it has to have been a labor of love. And then we wrote that book. Oh, we wrote that book. That is crazy. That was crazy. That was crazy.

That was crazy. I mean, that's really what pushed it into a space where it's like, I cannot remember a time where podcrushed was not the dominant force in my life. And so that's, you know, what would we have been doing? I don't know. And I'm glad that we did. And now it's like, and now it's not a said, I'm like, the bandwidth, the bandwidth that should now be open to us all is crazy.

We got to, we've got to produce, got to be productive. Yeah. We got to make sure to. Capitalite. Oh, I was just going to say it'll all come to light in the next few months. What are we going to do? You guys are going to be raising your tribes. Yeah.

That's true. Yeah. I'm curious, we got this question a lot when people were, when we had Q&As. And now that it's all said and done, what was your favorite episode? It really is hard to name one. But like a child, there's definitely one. There is definitely. A favorite one.

You have a favorite child? Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, it's a boring, dumb answer and non-answer, as you guys like to accuse me of always having. I think Michael Carleberg, every time I try to sing his name, it's like, I'm so hard. I'm like a Carver.

I cover my favorite good name. No, but I think because it's like, you know, the number of times I got chills just thinking of, I was really, I felt grateful and excited to be trying to share, you know, this kind of information we were exploring with him, this kind of idea, the coming of age of humanity and how helpful that can be. I think I just got really excited for the, you know, the essence of what anyone is doing with the podcast is trying to like. share something that could be meaningful and kind of elevate someone's spirits.

I mean, anybody I think would probably be able to boil down hosting a podcast to that, you know, and to inspire and courage. And I really felt that. Whether or not anybody listens to that particular episode and that particular interview is like, you know, I mean, only time will show us the numbers. And oh, we've got them. And they're low. I have faith in our listeners

that they will be able to listen to someone they don't know the name of. Yeah. No, that's true. I mean, are our listeners who are here for us every week? I mean, I have, that's a different class of people.

Yeah, it's true. That's high class. That's a better class is what he's saying. I always cheat. Penn, you didn't give a non-answer. You gave a real answer. I tend to get two answers. But he gave an answer of the only episode he remembers,

which is the last episode. It's what just happened Just a little bit ago That's amazing I usually give two answers And I'm going to end in classic form I'm going to give two Because I have two

For me I like the favorite episode Has to go hand in hand With like favorite taping experience And that's going to be a live one So for me it's Ariana Grande Rablo Ariana Grande Because she was so

I mean it was her Like that's why it was my favorite It was like who she was as a human And getting to experience that And then the round the women's roundtable for you because so much thought and preparation went into it and I thought it came together so beautifully and I like truly love your co-stars.

They're some of the greatest women in the world and it was just there's like so much love and energy and friendship and filming the TikToks it was like that's my favorite like recording day. It was so fun. So those are my two favorites. I think that's a good one. I'll piggyback that one. No, because seriously, as a recording day.

As they are named. I'm like, oh yeah. We did. No, that was a great. I mean, if we are talking about recording days, I think that's almost like an objective truth, that one, because it was so many people. And it was, it was a great, that was a good time.

It's true. In person is always the best. So I'm actually going to give two as well. Because when I was thinking of mine, my favorite episode was not an in-person one, but I was like, I was struggling with that. So I'll give two as well. In person, I think my favorite was Conan O'Brien.

Yeah. It was just so funny, so funny and so epic to be able to meet him, to talk to him, and he was so lovely. And then favorite episode in general, I think, is Riz Ahmed. I thought it was like meaningful. We talked a lot about spirituality, but he was funny. And learning about his upbringing was also really interesting, like the daytimeer parties. And he was just lovely. Yeah.

Yeah, he was. is extremely charming. Yeah. He was just your crush, but then he became our crush. He became this pod's crush. We've had so many. We've had, I can't, like, when people, people ask you on the side, like, who was your least favorite guest or whatever, I can only think of two times that I felt a little

bit uncomfortable by a guest. I'm not going to say who, but, like, we've recorded, like, a hundred twenty episodes or something. So to only have felt a little uncomfortable twice out of 120 experiences or whatever the numbers, I think is amazing. Like we had such great people come on the show. I'm so grateful for that. Was it the two host AMAs that we did?

Yeah. I felt really uncomfortable with the guests. The two guests. There was no buffer for the first time. We had a guest once named Penn and the other was Sophie. Yeah, Sophia. Yeah, not ringing a bell yet, but it'll probably go. Yeah.

So I'll circle back to the first. How are you feeling? I'm feeling grateful that we had this experience for the last four years. Oh, absolutely. Yes. 100%. Guys, by no shadow of a doubt whatsoever. And especially because of the book.

The book was crazy. But I mean, we're, guys, we are best-selling published authors. That's insane. Who would have guessed? It is literally insane. I said Penn a video the other day of, and I saw the Creshmore book that's on my shelf. Oh, that's right. And she was like, Uncle Penn.

Uncle Penn. And I was like, who else is on there? And she was like, Uncle Penn. What? I only birthed you. And actually you both took it personally because Nav was like, oh, and you, her mother,

you're like, oh, she can't point to me in a picture. Exactly. What you say in the video is you're like, even my daughter won't recognize that I'm a published author. Which is, it is funny. It is funny. Maybe Anais is that commenter. The one that's like, let him speak.

It's just been Anise. Let him speak. Uncle Penn. Uncle Penn. So funny. Yeah, no, I'm so grateful to both of you. I mean, Penn for being part of the project and it would have never been a thing, you know.

For both of you, it never would have been a thing without either of you. and Navajo for bringing me in in those early weeks, even before. Hey, she brought you in first. Yeah. She brought David in before me. I'll never forget that. Yeah, she's since become, you know, more savvy, but. Yeah.

It's been so fun. Yeah, it's been really fun. Yeah, it really has been. Yeah. So should we announce our next podcast? Yes, it's called Every Day with Leighton Meister And we just give the fans

What they want 100% Yeah Once in a while It's Adam Brody Once in a while we let him Yeah It's mostly just a gossip girl we watch Some vampire diaries

You know, maybe some one tree That podcast We would all be millionaires If we made that podcast Penn, if you could start a podcast and you didn't have to think about numbers, you didn't have to think about, it's just what you want to talk about

on a week-to-week basis, what would the topic be? Well, like Nav, I'm going to give two answers. This one comes to mind real fast. So if it's just interview-based, I think I would interview like, I think I would interview like neurobiologists and people who are on the forefront of studying consciousness

and because that's really interesting to me. I mean, you know, full disclosure, of course, it's because I have a profound belief and experience of God as the, you know, that there is this divine source and nature to us and reality so that there is a profound meaning and purpose and that we're all here discovering that together at this very important time on planet Earth.

And then, you know, there's something about just the forefront of physics is starting to question itself and the assumptions that it's made, which are philosophical assumptions and beliefs that have no basis in rigorous scientific inquiry, you know? And so I actually would really love to just like get it to some, you know, not debate

because I don't really believe in debate. It's that's sort of where, you know, if it devolves into yes or no, right or wrong, then that's where truth often gets obscured. But I would really love to just like ask, questions and and somehow you know if that could be yeah like if if if if if every person in the front of physics was that part of of physics where they're where they're starting to the math apparently is starting to to show us that there's no longer a logical assumption that

that consciousness arises from matter that consciousness is probably more fundamental to reality and you're not starting the podcast today though just to no I think it's No, this is where we're segowing right into it right now. But that's it. But that's it. But that's it. And if every person studying that could be like, oh, have you been on the, you know, the conscience-crushed? Conch-crushed?

Cron-chrown brain-crushed. The brain pot. You know, if we, if that was like the smart list of the. Podgish. Potschish. Potschism. Podgishness. Podgishness.

POT. Yeah, okay, we can workshop. We're workshopping it, yeah. Yeah. It's harder to say the Michael Carlinck. I just want to say his name is quite easy to say Michael Carlberg. I know. It's so hard for me.

Carlberg. There's certain. Yeah, but Michael Carleberg in one, like to say it fast. You said it. You did it. That's the first time I've done it. It depends like he's swallowing marbles while he's saying. I have, yeah.

I can't. There's certain consonants that are hard for me. No, I've had the same issue. And that was only part of my answer. Yeah, what's your second answer? Speedy. We're not worried about members now. I,

it would just be like the radio lab version of that where it would be journalistic and edited and a lot of work. So the same podcast just in two different formats. Yeah, basically. That's cool. Interesting. What about you, Sophie?

Because format isn't, you know. If you could keep a podcast going. Before we ever started this podcast, You guys know Sapa, Rohani. She's a friend of ours from New York. She and I worked together. Well, now Arizona. Yeah, now Arizona.

But we met in New York and we worked, she got me a job at the school that I taught at. And she and I really wanted to start a podcast. I wouldn't be part of it, but I would help her start it. With this kid who is in our neighborhood, his name's Jayquan. And he would just be like telling her the different slang that was like, you know, coming up. And she, her.

reactions were so funny. Wait, I think I know J-Quah. You probably do, yeah, from Bedstack. And we wanted to start a podcast called Teach Gets Taught. And it would be the two of them. And he's just trying to like keep her up to date. I love that. I would love to start that.

That's adorable. How about you, Neva? I was just at this weekend retreat in Arizona with like people of different faiths. And one of the exercise we had to do was like you had to tell your faith story. It was kind of like testimony or witnessing in Christianity, which we don't do in the Baha'i phixtrae. faith, but, or at least not in the U.S. as far as I'm aware, I don't know what other communities

are doing, but it's like, oh, it's really, I understand why Christians do it. Like, it's so moving. It's so moving to hear someone else's story. It's really moving to hear yours. And in the exercise, you would tell it, and then someone would tell it back to you. And they would like, wait, you're telling what? You're telling your, your faith story. I think it's bearing witness, but you would tell it as a story, not like my whole life trajectory, but like a moment that exemplifies your faith story. And it was like all really, it was like Jainists, Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Jews, Muslims.

Everyone was doing it in the space. And it was so moving. We had to do it three times. And every time we were like, we have to do it again. And every time we cried, every time you like hold something new out. And so I would love a podcast where people are just like

telling their faith story. And it was just so, it was like more moving than I could have expected. And honestly hearing someone tell your story back to you and like what they pull out of it that you didn't notice yourself. It was like incredible. I would love that.

Okay. Yeah. Next podcast seriously, because if you combine my idea with your idea and leave Sophie out, I actually think we have something. Okay, what about, no, no, your idea gave me another idea. What about birth stories? Yeah, that's what you got it with Domino.

Domino has been trying to get me. Dominino. Yeah, me and Domino. Yeah, me and Domino. Yeah, for sure. For sure. You guys should start a podcast. Yeah.

Domino is always wanting me to start a podcast or produce a documentary about, about something birth-oriented. And I'm like, I love the idea. But baby, you see how much work this is. You see how much work this is? Why? We have more children now. We have more children.

Sophie is going to do it. Sophie, you produce that. Yeah, don't worry. Side note, guys, Domino is rationally, consciously, repeatedly, which shows like it's intellect and not just feeling she keeps talking about having another child. You both just made the same.

What? You both just make the same face, yeah. I know, isn't that crazy? That is crazy. Isn't that? Wow. People do it all the time. People have six, seven, eight.

Yeah. Hundreds of years ago they did. Yeah. Six, seven, eight. 9, 10, 11, 12. You can count. Any number. No.

Any one of those. That's amazing. Wow. Well, we'll see. Father Abraham, and if you get to seven, you're officially Father Abraham. The first episode of the podcast will just be her birth. Exactly.

Okay, if there's one thing, because the truth is anybody who's still with us right now, they just want more. You know what I mean? They're weeping. He's just talking about wrapping up and sounds like he's going to ask us another question. Okay. If there's one word. Okay. Does that work?

Yeah, one way. Maybe 14 words. That was a possible. It's possible. You know one. Okay, in three and a half paragraphs, give me, um, you know, um, you know, it's a lot of, Yeah. If there's one word you're feeling now that would represent how Pod Crush impacted your thinking or feeling both.

Non-judgmental. Like I feel like from a distance, I have had like judgments on different celebrities, some who actually came on the show, just like people in general who are in that status. And what I found was like everyone was, yeah, just like so much more kind. like thoughtful, intelligent. Like I had a stereotype in my mind about celebrities and then when I've met them, it's always been different.

Good answer now. Yeah, so yeah, non-judgmental. Like, don't judge people. Yeah. You don't, you really don't know people's stories. At least talk to them and give them a chance before you form a judgment. That's what Podgush has left me with.

That's a really good one. We almost maybe we shouldn't say. I think that's just end there. Yeah. That was perfect. As always, Navas, sums it up. Who was going to wrap it up, but Navs cabs.

Everyone has a story. And everyone has a story. You know who else has a story worth telling? And in fact, you know who else has a last question worth answering? Is you, dear listener. What would you tell yourself at 12 years old? Podfreshed is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navakavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari.

and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time, because guess what? You can listen completely ad-free. Plus, you'll unlock exclusive bonus content. Like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film Into the Wild had on him,

the conversation was so moving, and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to LemonadaPremium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's LemonadaPremium.com. Don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to Pod Crush ad-free on Amazon Music with your Prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye. Want to listen to your favorite Lemonada shows without the ads? Subscribe to Lemonada Premium

on Apple Podcasts. You'll get ad-free episodes and exclusive bonus content from shows like Wiser Than Me with Julia Louis Dreyfus, Fail Better with David DeCovney, the Sarah Silverman podcast, and so many more. It's a great way to support the work we do and treat yourself to a smoother, uninterrupted listening experience. Just head to any Lemonada show feed on Apple Podcasts and hit subscribe. Make Life suck less with fewer ads with Lemonada Premium. Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co-host and Happiness Guinea Pig

is my sister, Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.