Podcrushed - Mark Ronson

Episode Date: October 5, 2022

Mark Ronson -- the seven-time Grammy Award winner you may know from songs like "Uptown Funk" and "Shallow" -- swings by the show this week and shares stories of interning at Rolling Stone as a 12 year old, being in the room when some of the greatest songs of all time were being crafted, and even shares a few lessons he’s learned about love.  Follow us on socials:InstagramTwitterTikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

All four of us were, like, presently having our heart stomped on. And I remember because of the way Lady Gaga records, instead of, like, sitting around a guitar, everyone has headphones on because she likes to hear her voice, like, every nuance, because it's so emotive. And I remember when she said, like, it's either the one ain't it hard, keeping it so hardcore, or are you happy in this modern world? I remember all my hair's kind of stood up because I just felt like she was. was like consoling me like even though she was sort of making up on the fly this is podcrushed the podcast that takes the sting out of rejection one crushing middle school story at a time and where guests share their teenage memories both meaningful and mortifying and we're your hosts i'm navva a former middle school director i'm sophy a former fifth grade teacher

and i'm penn the middle school dropout this week is really a exciting because we had our first press release as a company. So Penn and I and our friend Chelsea have a production company called Ninth Mode. And we recently acquired the rights to a David Sideris short story called Jamboree from his first book of short stories called Beryl. But basically we had to have a press release about this. It's like kind of a big deal because Cedaris doesn't really ever option his work. And it was also our way to announce our company in the trades. So Penn's publicist, Kate, was giving us like detailed notes of what each one of us need to say. Each of us has a quote in the release. And Penn like pulls out a path. And Penn like

pulls out a pad and starts like furiously taking notes. But then when Kate is giving me notes, I see that Penn is still taking notes. And I'm truly like, oh wow, like Penn is like really taking this so seriously. Like I was feeling pride, you know? He's like writing notes for like all of them, you know? Like, yeah, this like means something to Penn. But then when Kate stopped speaking, he's still taking notes. And I'm like, why is Penn still taking notes? So I say like, Penn are you, I think I even said like, Penn, you're like furiously writing, but no one's talking. Are you starting to draft your statement? And I wasn't being sarcastic. I was like truly believing in Penn in this moment.

And then Penn holds up his pad and it's all doodles, not a single note. There was one line. There was a line. Was it the date? What was the line? No, I'd probably, no, it was, well, I've forgotten it now. I don't believe this. But there was.

There definitely was. See, here's the thing. Sometimes doodling helps me focus. Sometimes it doesn't. And I never know which one it's going to do until I do it. I feel like this is a fun fact for, our listeners pen that you are not just a doodler but you actually can draw like you've I'm a professional doodling no but didn't you didn't you draw something for the cover of a book once like for my record actually

for uh if anybody's listening I do have a album of music available on all platforms my band is called mother MOTH X R quick plug no a bit on the inside I drew all the like liner notes and stuff and um I used that one of the first things I wanted to do was be a cartoonist I love that so if you anything fun for you this week? Yes, actually. So two of my neighbors, this is another story about two kid neighbors, came over and we did a little spa day. It was adorable. What does that mean? Yeah, so they came over. We had like spa music, cucumbers to put on their eyes, like face masks. We did their nails. It was really adorable. We did a guided meditation about the ocean. It was really sweet. Cute. Where did you get the spa music? Spotify, four

hours of spa music first thing that popped up but um it made me think like it's such an easy activity to do with kids in your life and i highly recommend they were super into it that's really that's very sweet you continue to have such sweet and if anybody could see like sophy's face right now like her smile is so genuine honestly this is to the listener guys this is the i'm talking to all of them all 72 of them nava and sophy are so genuine when they say something is sweet It's like it's like as though it's not 2023. It's though it's either 3023 or like 10.23. Well, 1023 is pretty dark.

Who's going to tell Penn that it's not 2023? Is that the date you put at the top of your beautiful age? By the time most people are listening to this episode, guys. Come on. October 2020 is just like 2023. It really is. I always speak. When I mention the date, I always go a year ahead because I'm used to things that I do

just being released like a year later that's just i live in press press cycle mode yeah okay today's guest is mark ronson he's a prolific producer and musician very talented very successful he's had a hand in creating so many iconic records that everybody knows and loves from his production work on amy winehouse's rehab and back to black to his writing work on shallow with lady gaga

and bradley cooper to his massive solo collaboration with artists like Duolipa, Camilla Cabello, Miley Cyrus, actually a favorite of mine also is DeAngelo back in 29. Mark Ronson has been shaping pop music for more than 20 years. And perhaps this is why he's won seven Grammys, two Brits, an Academy Award, a Golden Globe and even a... This is cool, actually, a Guinness World Record for the longest running number one on the U.S. digital song sales charts for his single with Bruno Mars, Uptown Funk. Mark was a fascinating guest. We really dug in, loved having him on, so don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

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your podcasts. Mark, there is so much that you've done. There are so many people you've worked with, but let's just start at 12. We heard you were an intern at Rolling Stone magazine when you were 12. Is this right? Yeah, I was the youngest intern ever because Jan Wenner, who started the magazine,

was a good friend of my parents, my stepdad was a musician, and every time he had come over, But I was like a very, very nerdy, obsessive music trivia nut, and I would read Rolling Stone back to front. I knew album liner notes, and I would grill yawn to death, probably to the point of almost being annoying to one time he was like, what do you want?

I was like, can I intern, you know? Wow. So he let me intern. I was the youngest intern. I think most of the kids were sort of like college age. I mean, my voice hadn't even broken. I was a really young 12, so as an intern at Rolling Stone at that time, they would just throw you whatever

sometimes you were answering the switchboard which was like a lot of fun because there were just all these buttons everywhere it looked like you were like the operator for all of Manhattan You know what's crazy that there's literally there's probably a lot of people who listen who don't even know what that means It means you're picking up a phone

Yeah right and you have to do you have to connect I wasn't connecting it was I would dial it to extension So there's a pad in front of me Like this giant thing with like hundreds of little buttons and anyone trying to call Rolling Stone and speak to somebody at extension 102 I would answer and be like hello rolling stones you know and then they would be like hi can i speak to jancy done and i'd be like jansy done like

and then hit 103 and buzz it through and i love doing because that was like the equivalent of i guess of like kids have like iPhones now like iPads like for me that was that was like a fun thing that was techie sometimes i would just call all the mom and pop record stories because rolling stone had their own top 10 chart in the back of the magazine that was a bit random it wasn't a billboard chart it was just them calling 100 mom and pop stores and averaging the chart from each of those stores In a given locality or just like across the I think it was just a weird across the thing

It was like a gallop pole You know like those polls here like what is how do they do that And can I ask what like what year is this? This is 12 so this is before I was 13 This is just 88 And then one of the times that I really remember Was the Batman soundtrack was number one That week

It was the Prince soundtrack with Bat dance and I had figured out that that was the number one thing and I had to then go downstairs to the art department and tell them so they could put the little thing of the Batman album cover visual at the top of the chart because everything was so old school the layout and the blues prints and stuff so I went down I was like who do I ask for

and they're like well you ask for Sheila whatever she's the head of the art department just tell her the number one album is Prince Batman so I just go down and I'm like looking at like do you know where Sheila John And they're like, no, and, oh, she's right in there. So I go, and I'm like, hi. And she's like, can I help you?

Like, she had never seen before I was tough. I just go, yeah, Batman's number one. And she's just like, is this a prank? Like, I just seemed like a kid who was just super into DC comics. Yeah, that's right. Apropos of nothing, just a 12-year-old approaches you. Yeah. Yeah.

And she's like, can I, like, excuse me? Wow. I love that. I'm just, I'm realizing as you tell this story, you have the life and career of a person much older than you. I feel like you're like an old-timey director being like, eh, she, you know, like, you clearly have lived this life. And you're not old enough to seem that way, you know what I mean? Yeah, it's weird because, like, I did do, like, I didn't really have any real success in music until, like, my early 30s. So I had sort of a late start, but I'd done a lot of shit before that.

So I guess, and then as a kid, I had, you know, bands in school and, you know, interned. Everything was so, I liked school. I wasn't some outcasts, but everything about my friend group of my interests were all so music-driven that it was just like. Clearly. So, yeah, I guess I, you know. From what I understand, you moved to the states from London, or at least England. England, yeah. When you were eight?

Is that right? Third grade, going to third grade. Okay. So that like prefaces your coming of age, your adolescence. By the time you were in middle school, you were, and you're in Manhattan? Yeah. It's an intense place to be. Yeah.

I heard you say, I've listened to a couple of your interviews, like with Questlove, for instance. You were saying that you were no longer British enough to be British around your British friends and family maybe. And you were certainly not American. Yeah. So you felt very in between. Like, yeah, I came here. And the first thing, it's like, this is obviously like during like the full conversation. I mean, this like red scare era of America.

So I came here, and they were like, my nickname for whatever for a lighthearted bullying was calmy. I'm just like, I'm from England, not Estonia, but I sure. And so then I started to, you know, as quick as I could just blend in. It's a survival technique. You don't want to be made fun of and you want to fit into this new place. So I started to speak, you know, kind of American, probably without even realizing it. And then by the time I went back to England only three months later for like my Christmas holidays. and saw, like, my English friends,

they were like, mate, why do you sound like such a yanker ready? I mean, they sound like, I'm saying my friends are 22-year-old cockney dude down at the pub, but they were like, you know, they were just like, why do you sound American?

And it's so crazy, like, even, you know, I'd be talking to my friends on the phone back in that they had call waiting, right? And I'd be like talking about, and what are you going to do this weekend? I don't know, we're going to go down to Alex's and maybe did it. The call waiting would go and be my mother,

and she'd be like, Mark, what are you doing on the phone? I'd be like, oh, nothing, mommy, I was just getting in the bath, you know? Like, I couldn't help. It was just so reflexive. Obviously, I hated it because it's smacked to me of, like, being disingenuous, you know, like, well, like, people would see me and be like, well, why do you see, you're English, you're American? And it's still, I still even see it.

But I still see it up to now because when I went back to live in England, I suddenly started talking like fucking Sid Vicious. So I do notice that, like, so now I'm just like, fuck it. It's just like, it's obviously like so woven inside me that I can't control and I'm not going to get worked up if people think I sound like a fake. Surely that's also reflective of this capacity you have as a producer where you're able to sort of read the vibe of the room and the people. And particularly, you have to like be prepared for a lot of sometimes craziness.

You have to be prepared for just working with all the people you work with. You know, I feel like that's, to me, the artistic equivalent of what you're just. describing. Yeah. We've been in so many different rooms, even if it's your room. Yeah. The artist comes in and technically, don't they have to feel like it's theirs? They do. You do. You have to be sort of egoless and you have to be like firm about your creative beliefs because you want to influence this thing, but it's not in an ego way. It's just because like, hey, I think you would sound better singing it like this. Right. But yeah, I think it's, you know, I think growing up the way that I did, yeah, I think it's just, you're just being a producer, I mean, there's very specific. tools, of course, it's like learning how to mic a drum kit. But then there's all these, like you said, mysterious things. I have nothing to do, which is just like constantly being able to think on your feet and improvise it

any turn. And so I think that probably coming here, being a bit in between, I grew up in a pretty hectic household. And, you know, my dad and I have a great relationship now. But like back growing up, that shit was pretty like rough and turbulent. So I think

reading a room, like you said, even really served me my first 10 years is like a DJ because that's all you're doing you're going into a room and you're just going and you have an empty dance floor and the room is filling up and you see seven people and you're like if I can get

figure out what those seven people like and get them on and then that and you're kind of amassing this thing on the floor that like it is very much in the same way that when I was a kid I might see my fucking dad looking like he might have had a rough night and be like I'm going to take the long way around

to the kitchen maybe that's safe for me, like it's a little bit of that same reading and acclimatizing, and I'm sure a lot of that had to do with moving here at a young age. Yeah, definitely. We have talked to two people so far who have talked about using music at that time in their lives, like around 12, 13 to get them through a rough time, to get them through what was going on at home or just to be able to express themselves. And I'm wondering, was music that for you?

and did you have other friends who you could relate to on that level? Yes, definitely. So I had, I'm trying to get like back. So 12, 13, I was probably listening to Guns and Roses, Led Zeflin, Jimmy Hendricks, all the sort of like shit that like boys tend to discover around like that time and girls. But just like in my thing, it was just like if you play guitars and you had a tie-dye shirt and you went down to 8th string, you bought a Jimmy Hendrix blacklight poster and you learned a Zeppelin riff. whatever it was and then I liked

Guns and Roses because it was just I don't know I wasn't like a metal freak but that was just the thing of the time and yeah most of my friends I had two of my best friends were from other schools and it was because we all jammed and played music together and I had I didn't

I didn't have like a very like a terrible unideolic upbringing or adolescence once I moved to New York so I wasn't like I was like slamming the door my parents and like blasting Nirvana but Definitely music was just, I think it's something that I actually like emerged myself in in almost like a compulsive way. Like I kind of, I always like, I would go to Tower Records by myself and I could wander like the aisles of cassettes for hours at a time at like 12 or 13.

Yeah, I actually remember that too. And I think that that's like, I think that part of it was like a love and obviously passion for music. But I think probably partly because of my childhood there was like a little bit of a compulsive. of like, okay, this is my world, no one can fucking get to me here, I've put this thing up. So music was both connection and also

what's the opposite of connection, just like withdrawal for me. I think they were both. Yeah, actually, that really resonates. I've not heard somebody say it quite like that before, but I think it's like the way that a strength can be weakness and vice versa. That was my relationship with it. I actually thought a lot of,

I know that a lot of what played that role for me was that I was an only child, But you're not at all an only child, right? No. I have a lot of brothers and sisters, like, you know, two sisters, two years younger than me from my mom and dad. And then my mom had two kids in New York. So there were five of us in the house. At least one of your sisters, Samantha, is also sort of famously musical and in that scene.

And I'm wondering if you guys were ever competitive or collaborative on that front as kids. No, because she didn't start playing music until a little bit later. We were, like, competitive over the radio dial and the car on the way to school. like that was kind of it. She liked, I'm going to blow up her spot, but she liked, like, sort of Z100 PLJ, like the pop tunes, and I don't know what the hell I was listening to back then. But we were very supportive.

I mean, like, obviously, like, the ages of 8 to sort of 12 when you're still, like, bickering and this kind of thing. But as we got into, like, those middle school years and stuff, like, we were very, like, we became a very tight unit. That's cool. I'm like a 90s kid, grew up 90s, 2000s, adolescence. I've said this on the podcast where I was, like, obsessed with the notion of being cool. And I feel like in the 90s, there was, like, a particular cachet around, like, being cool.

And I feel like there's no name that comes to mind more than, like, Mark and Samantha Ronson for, like, cool. Like, the way that you came across in the press was, like, these are the coolest siblings that have ever lived. Wow. Well, now I feel cool. Yeah. You know, like, I mean, I'm not saying this to be, like, bullshit and self-deprecating. Like, I certainly never felt cool because the press. that you were probably reading as like a younger person

and kind of teen people or whatever was saying that we were cool. Like, I was living in New York City where I felt like a fraud every time I went into like an indie record store. So, like, I guess it's always on those things. But in school, I wasn't really cool because I like certain weird off shit that like in a very buttoned up preppy upper west side school that I went to collegiate

was that like I would come back from England with cool like steel-toed shoes that I thought were cool but like I they weren't the Doc Martins I just got the wrong brand so they weren't really cool like I got like the pay less version of them but the kids who were

two years older would walk past me and be like give me like a little nod like I see you trying there but the kids in my class would be like why are you wearing those fucking stupid shoes you're going to like try and look up girls dresses you know it was like very like LLB and sort of polo

Ralph Lauren and you know there were kids from my class that I was friends with that were like a little more punk rock but as a whole I just missed the mark I did things like um died like a big blonde streak in the front of my hair because I thought that was kind of cool and that was

like in seventh grade and you know kids are just like you look like a bird shooting your hair like whatever it was like I wasn't being mercilessly teased but I was just like a little alt left enough to be to just not be be in the cool click. I remember there was a lunch table of the cool kids

and like it's kind of occasionally sit with them but then I would sit with usually with a slightly now who are cool but like dorkier by nature I don't know Dungeons and Dragons slash like Monty Python lot. Yeah I feel like when you look back at middle

school like the the kids who you thought were cool while you were in that time of your life are actually not cool at all. They're kind of they're like basic and they're doing like the status quo. It's actually the all left kids who are not considered cool at all that are truly cool.

Totally. And also, I mean, I'm sure I can't imagine how much the phrase peak early comes up on this show, right? Actually, never once before. Really? We're not doing our job. Well, yeah, that's definitely like there were those girls like what were my girlfriends like in middle school?

They were kind of like my girlfriend Nicole Juistow in the seventh grade who we went to see like rattle and hum together. Like they were all a little offbeat as well so yeah and then I had my friends who I played music with who went to other schools

who didn't go to my school and sort of that was yeah that was kind of my click it's so weird because fourth grade I remember really well fifth six seventh eighth it's interesting you do this show because middle school is the thing doesn't get a lot of light because it is this middle period

like you haven't figured out what you are but it's obviously incredibly like influential formative I mean, you know, developmentally, your brain is its most plastic. Yeah. I'm pretty sure Sophie, you shared this in another episode, so please. It's that there's two periods of plasticity in the brain. One is before, like, zero to two years old, and then the other is from, you know, adolescence, 11 to 15.

I want to go back to one thing you said, Mark, which was that you're having trouble remembering that exact period. Like you can remember before, you can remember after. And I think you're not alone. I think that's the case for most people. It certainly is the case for me. When we started making this show, I had to sit down, start really digging through those memories. Like there's so much going on. There can be a lot of trauma.

You're having a lot of formative experiences. And I think it's natural to kind of block those out. But you did say something about a girlfriend. And we love to ask about crushes on this show. So I want to know more about that. What were your crushes like in middle school, your relationships? I think like I just

I remember this one girlfriend I mean I remember Flash of other ones but she was just kind of like cool and sort of you know we were we did all grow up in a slightly inclusive

these sort of like privileged-ish schools and I guess I was just we were both slightly offbeat I remember this girl Nicole and she was really into music

and we made out you know we never did anything super crazy And I got to second base, maybe And Bases, all right, we're really doing it And that's it Like I just remember like having fun

Going to movies Going to see like whatever River Phoenix movie Was out that week or something with one of the quarries in it I don't know Something I remember that time that I've been lamenting recently I don't know if it's phones or COVID or what But just a slowness then Yeah.

We're really watching and experiencing, you know. Just a walk along like Central Park West or like past a museum steps or something with like a girl that you have a crush on when it's like slightly cold. It's just like kind of the best. Stick around. We'll be right back. All right. So let's just real talk as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now.

That dates me, doesn't it? But no, real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a one to ten. And I don't mean in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like, you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick.

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and start learning today. Mark, I want to ask you a classic podcrush question. Can you Tell us about an embarrassing experience in middle school. Is fourth grade okay? That's what comes to... Yeah, we'll take it. Yeah, we'll take it. Okay. Because some people do a bit older, so, yeah, it's kind of just the ballpark.

Okay, that's just the first one that really comes to mine. I'm sure there's others, but in the relay race, it's field day, which is like, I guess everybody has field day, right? Like, when the whole school comes to the parents and you do egg and spoon and three-legged race and relay. And I guess I was just like a little. little bit of a, I wasn't a flighty kid, but I maybe had a, I could get into my head and daydream and I was in the last heat of the relay race and the last, you know, runners sort of coming around and I have my baton, my hand out ready to snatch the baton and I'm just like, whatever the fuck I'm doing looking up at the clouds. And I start to hear like parents kind of go, you know,

and like before it becomes words in your brain. I'm like, what are they? And right at that moment, I just see the runner take off past me this way and I realized like oh I've been facing like the wrong way the whole time and so like I was just like the only one of four people lined up in the wrong direction

and it probably would have just gone away and died a simple death if it wasn't for the fact that I went to we went after the race was over and I trying to pretend like nothing happened like hey coach yeah it's all good and and he goes out look up wrong way

Ronson over here and because it just sounded so good it was like a one to grow on like children's book character you know Ramona Quimby whatever like I just it just stuck for all of school and I still have my best friend from school when I when a phone rings

he has the song wrong way by sublime as his ring wow so can we be clear how long did that stick like badly for a year or two but anybody who do it like I mean it's still what am I'm like nearly 40 years later

and I'm still hearing it from like two friends That's amazing That's pretty good actually Mark this is a little bit of a pivot Out of middle school But just on the topic of relationships A lot of people who listen to this show Send stories and a lot of them have to do with relationships

So I'm just curious I heard you say last year That you felt like you were in love And happy for the first time And I was wondering Or for one of the first times And I was just wondering What lessons you've learned about love

That you might want to impart I'm just going to start paraphrasing my therapist Love rewards the lover No I think that I mean he says a lot of good shit But I just don't want to parrot him I think that the main thing is that like You basically love up to the level of where you are Like your partner like I had to sort of get my shit together

And become a stable Reliable grounded person So I could attract someone very special and wonderful like that and end up in a relationship like that. But I think that basically, yeah, I think you love, you get about where you're at, you know, your partner. And I feel like I just had to like really get my shit together to be worthy of, you know, grace and my wife and the kind of person that she is. And I think, you know, we might have met five years ago and might have had like a physical mutual crush and dated for two months. And she might have just been like, oh, he's a little much for me and then gone on a separate ways.

I'm glad we met when we did. Yeah, that resonates with me because actually all of my three most mature and meaningful relationships of my 20s, which, and the last one was with my now wife, Domino, I had met all of them once, well, I had known all of them prior, at least in some passing capacity.

And so there's clearly like a time, like compatibility because of maybe maturity, world views, whatever those things are. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, that really resonates with me too. I think a lot of people put a lot of stock in what they want to find in another person. I think that's really important. I do think you should think about that and you should be very vigilant about who you're with.

But I think it's just as important to develop those qualities within yourself, right? Like to see who you're attracting. How are you going to attract them? How are you going to attract somebody who's, like, honest and trustworthy and loyal if you're not developing those qualities in yourself? I think it's really important. You have to trick them. So, actually, that kind of line right there makes me, when I was listening, like, refreshing my familiarity with your catalog, which is vast and diverse, a question came to mind that has to do with love. you know undoubtedly i think we could call you an expert on songwriting which is to say probably also pop song structure and topic and theme which is to say really like three to four minutes stories about love right kind of i tell stories about love in 22 to 48 minutes what it really takes to live a life of integrity is so much like slower and subtler than any of the stories we get movies and shows are about

the beginnings and ends of relationships, generally. The middle, which is the thing you live, is glossed over, more or less. And I get why. It's very hard to convey. It is. It's so hard to convey. So have you thought about that?

Is there anything I'm saying? No, that's very interesting, actually, because it's like it's easy to do the extremes of love, like the falling in love and then the heartbreak. In the middle, like, that's why, like, Paul McCartney and Stevie Wonder is sort of geniuses, because they're like two of the only people. that can write like happy songs that don't suck and it's it's hard to like to do that like you like you are the sunshine in my life like of course we've heard it so many times it's it's like

it just makes you think of like a hotel lobby but it's actually like it's got but it's brilliant yeah and it's got 74 chords in it and it's like pseudo psychedelic balsanova that became a number one pop right which is basically every stevie wonder song yeah yeah you are the sunshine of my life That's why I'll always be around. There's joy. There's like so much joy in whatever you want to call it God or higher power. Like in his thing, you feel it coming out of him. And then you feel it as much or even more in his songs that are about heartbreak and other things.

I'm not that great at lyrics. I'm pretty good at chords, arrangement, melody. if somebody says like I'm off the deep end watch as I dive and I'm like well how about something in the surface where they can't hurt us like I can edit and

I've got you know the brain but I don't mean like I've got the brain like a show up like I can't say this that's amazing but like I know how to help successful songs of all time yeah I think I just mean like I know how to help

someone get where they're like pull out what they're trying to say is probably what it is like just having a glossary and so what you're saying saying is like well but you're not the right but i guess what i'm saying is like you facilitate a process as a prolific mega talented and successful producer i think you've proven that there's something now i'm not expecting you to articulate it right now because you're actually i think the work speaks for itself i i guess i'm just also curious like i think that there's something you understand

about the way people feel about love what they want to feel not just what it's Because actually what it is probably eludes us all in a really significant way. Yeah. But I think you understand what people want to feel. And that's interesting to me. That's very interesting and a nice compliment. I do think that I think I'm just like an insecure sort of self-deprecating Jew that I have to give myself credit that I probably underplay some of my talents and what I'm doing because I'm just sometimes treated like, I'm just here as a conduit. Like, I think that there's... But you now have the numbers to show that it's consistent enough that you know something. And I think, like, not to get too, you know, psychobabble, but I think I did bury, like, all my pain and feelings for so long that I was, like, not really admitting to the fact that, like, some of this whatever shit was coming out in the songs I might have written with Amy Winehouse or somebody who was, like, very, very displaying an inordinate amount of pain. I wasn't just like

Here's some chords, Amy I'm sure there was something sad in me that enabled me to make my little contribution there Yeah, and for your last record Late Night Feelings came out in like 2019 You do work with a lot of women Like Miley Cyrus, Licky Lee And they're communicating

Something melancholy Yeah, that record was really the first record Because I've worked with people that are Very emotional, make sad music For lack of, you know, it's oversimplification or whatever but in my own music and I would always been like relentlessly happy

like of town funk and Oui and Valerie and in this way that like that's not real life but I always thought like I'm a DJ who wants to hear that the DJs had a bad day like when I was making my own record like I was always like they've got to be like joyous and ebullent and I think part of it was probably because I just thought that like

who's going to give a shit about my real feelings or what if I say what I'm really feeling and it sucks but because I had just gone through a divorce and like I just I couldn't even process making happy music at that moment. The only thing coming out was this. It was great because I made a record that I'm actually like not only

musically proud of but maybe emotionally can vouch for as well with that last one. And something about what you said about missing. It's not exactly the same way that you use the word missing but when I do go in the studio a lot of the times like whether I think it out loud or it's a subconscious

thought I'm trying to make what I'm missing in my life like whether it's a sound or a style or a tempo or an emotion i'm like damn what would i be psyched to turn on the radio and hear right now that i'm not hearing or that no one else is doing so so there is a little bit of that that missing element in there i feel like that's what you did with bruno marr's like uptown funk was like perfect for the moment everybody wanted to hear it it was so joyous it was like what you're talking about right again i feel like that's missing that's really it's extremely fun thanks yeah i guess that song was just really Bruno is also like another person like Bruno makes incredible music and but you and even I guess in the heart breaky sadder songs you always like picture him probably having a great time when he's recording it or performing on stage or something so we're all like yeah that was a very that's a very happy kind of like joyous record I'm really looking forward to like Bruno's like imagine period I think also because he's just such a fucking great songwriter when he really like just lets down the guard fully that's gonna

be, I think that's going to be a great record. I have a question about Uptown Funk. I recently saw a clip on TikTok of you. I think you're on a podcast talking about this moment when you were creating that song where it was kind of on a different track and then Bruno came up with a and you initially didn't like it and then you slept on it and you loved it in the morning. And you made a point, a really beautiful point about how sometimes

your knee-jerk reaction isn't the right one and you should when you're collaborating sometimes you have to give it some space and sleep on it and I thought that was really such a great little nugget of wisdom about collaboration and you have collaborated with some of the biggest names

in music and I'm wondering if you have any other nuggets for us or basically what else you've learned about collaborating because I think it is such an art form I do think that like and I've read this in like a lot of the the books that you read in therapy whether it's like adult children of alcoholics

or whatever like it's a great book that one I have serious actually yeah as as like as together as I sort of seem and like easy going like I have this terrible thing like if anyone challenges in the studio or even like comes

with another idea my first instinct is just to like like my hawk was called like whatever you call it like I think it's this thing of like I think that I read in the book you feel like you're being judged no I read it's just like you're so you grew up having so little control that like you need control and things to be the way you've decided so it could literally be like someone saying they're going to be five minutes later like hey could we try the baseline like this and it's just like it's this weird thing like it triggers me in the most horrible way and I had to learn to manage it because I'm in the studio a lot of the times with people who are as talented more talented have better ideas and there's this kind of slightly pompous thing about being the producer I'm the guy who's got ideas And Bruno Mars is an incredible producer as well. His ideas are probably going to be better than yours a lot of the time.

So it's just learning to be like, take a breath. It's not about being the outfit. It's just about doing whatever is going to make the end product the kind of best. And yes, it's always fun when everybody loves your ideas and you're kind of winning at that moment. But at the same time, it's like you have to know when to just like put it aside in the name of the, you know, whatever it is, the art or whatever. To be honest, I'm very surprised to hear you say that.

Because, again, I feel like you're constantly. It's not, like, if that's a trigger for you, I mean, you're constantly being triggered. Your profession is to constantly be, you know? Yeah, it is. It is. And, like, that's why you, like, learn how to manage it. And, yes, a lot of the times I do have the best ideas. So it's, like, fine.

And I'm coming in with people who are just happy. It's not constant, Ben. It's occasionally. Yeah, but it's good to be ready for, like, when you're in the studio. But even bad idea. saying anybody because the artist is constantly making suggestions yeah right and all you really are at the end of the

day is two people's tastes there is no right or wrong so you're like kind of lobbying for the fact that like okay well I've got a little bit more experience and I kind of know and maybe that's it but like at the end of the day that's an artist and that's the thing that they have to go perform around the world for the next two years and sell it

on TikTok it's like if you really think this I got to let you roll with it but yeah it is it is a really interesting maybe I enjoy making my own records as much because as well it's the one time that I get to steer the ship a little more people are willing to take a little bit of a backseat to your vision but either way yeah I think it's just knowing

when to get out the way maybe Mark I have a question you mentioned earlier you sort of briefly touched on like God or a higher power and you know like historically people used to think that there was like a muse that would visit the artist to inspire them and some people feel like they're drawing from a higher power and I'm just wondering what's your relationship to like where does inspiration come from do you channel is it you like sort of what are your thoughts on that

Quincy Jones has this great quote to my friend Andrew Wyatt always says it's just like you always got to leave a little space to let God in the room which is like whether it's your high power whatever is there is something obviously even if it's not like the the image you have from like a cheesy like PBSing of like Mozart being struck by lightning and then furiously scribbling

for like three hours and then out comes like a concerto. I think that when I feel a melody okay maybe it's a part of my brain it's completely biochemical that's just remembered a piece of an old melody from 17 years ago and I'm kind of think I'm having a moment but

when you really are in a zone when you play a chord or two chords in a row and you know what the next chord is and then you're finding it like there's no way that I'm not being guided by something and I'm sure that there's like there's actually an anatomical

whatever like a scientific explanation for it but it does feel I think there's something... I think there's something special that's happening like in the room at that moment and the alchemy sometimes there's certain people that I work with as well like that when we're all in the room together like there's

just like a thing that happens or it's like doesn't happen necessarily sending tracks back and forth there is I'm sure you know this I know you make music I do yeah I'm sure you know In the presence of someone like you

I don't feel comfortable like yes No no no I Yes I do But I do But I do So and you know what it's like When you play a song

For somebody for the first time It could be your girl Your best friend Your A&R your manager And they're even sitting behind you On a couch And you can't even see them You know

You can start to like Just with your own body language know if they like the song or not. There's something that's just so weird. You can tell, like, I can always tell. Like, that always magnifies every problem with the song, or I'm like, turn it up. Like, it's either one.

You have been a part of huge hits, like, rehab and shallow. I mean, uptown, fuck, there's, like, too many to name, but... That's actually all of them. Well, they're really big. When you were part of collaborating on those songs, did you know that you were, like, going to influence? Like, did you have a feeling like this is about to, like, shift the culture in some way? These are seismic moments. Okay, so those songs may be what might be in common with, like, shallow and uptown funk.

There was a moment in the room that we were all just, like, kind of like, just went into an almost, like, trans-like zone. Like, we were just jamming. Shallow, I think, was more like because all four of us were, like, presently having our heart stomach. on and I remember because of the way Lady Gaga records instead of like sitting around a guitar everyone has headphones on because she likes to hear her voice like every nuance because it's so emotive

and I remember when she said like the thing aren't she is there tell me something boy like the one is it's it's either the one ain't it hard keeping it so hardcore or are you happy in this modern world I remember all my hair's kind of stood up because I just felt like

she was like consoling me like even though she was sort of making off on the fly So we were definitely aware there was like a little bit of a voodoo like in the room that day. And then the same thing with Uptown Funk, even though it was a little more like laborious. Like it took place over seven months. But the first jam that we ever had the birth that song, Bruno was just on drums. I was on bass. Jeff Basker was on keys.

And we just had like the dumbest jam for six hours playing the same thing. You would never want to hear it. It would be the most boring thing ever. But it was so much fun to us. so like the spirit of that even though you labor over verses and lines and things to get to the finish line there was definitely like this uh the whole point was like we have to make the song as exciting as it as is joyous as it felt to us that first day i do feel like music out of all the art forms is the most emotional like i mean i think film is the pinnacle of art form for me in a lot of ways it combines the most because it's the most because it's the most because it's the most because it's the most emotional is the most because of the most. it combines so many, but technology. But music, I think it has to do with being able to close

your eyes and still experience it fully to be able to shut off that sense that we use so much throughout our whole lives. Even right now, I'm like, I wish I could just close my eyes. Like your eyes get tired. Just do it. Just go ahead. Just close your eyes. Don't worry. Actually, there is a scientific explanation

for that. Oh, really? I learn everything on podcast. Yeah, nothing on this one, but evidently, the let me go ahead and not try and use any terms that I don't know in a biological sense when you hear a sound it subverts the brain and goes to nervous system first your nervous system is responding to the noise

before you have a chance to think about it that's a key so I think actually what this is and even though I don't think there's only explanations for this physically like it's but but the physical explanation for that feeling is like you're just not even getting a chance to think about it that knowledge you said when you know the next chord. Yeah. It's so beautiful because you're not

thinking. You know? There's also a really cool study that I read about that in these different sort of tomes for people mentally troubled that they would often put on a symphony like a nice piece of Mozart or Beethoven that would soothe them. So when MP3 sort of

first came around I guess or first became popular sometime in the early 90s they played the same exact piece of music on an MP3 which is a slightly compressed piece of music on the CD and not only did it not have the same

calming effect on the patients it actually had an agitating effect because there are frequencies basically when you make up an MP3 that they take out all the stuff that's not really that the human ear can't hear so all the frequencies above here and below there because they're like well we have to make this

file small but those are the things that you feel that vibrate that touch your skin and the absence of those and maybe the way that compression happens like is actually something that's like you feeling your soul so it's kind of bizarre I thought that was interesting and we'll be right back fall is in full swing and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look luckily quince makes it easy to look polished stay warm and save big without compromising on quality quince has all the elevated essentials for fall. Think 100% mongoling cashmere from $50. That's right, $50. Washable silk tops and skirts and perfectly tailored denim, all at prices that feel too

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So he's a lamb-peelaf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with Nom-Num, available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at TryNom.com slash Podcrush, spelled Try. N-O-M dot com slash podcrushed. Mark, you have your own record label and you obviously are in a position where you can be pretty selective about who you work with, who you sign. So I'm just curious, like, what do you look for when you decide to collaborate with an artist and what is the ethos of your label?

I think it's basically actually what we were just talking about. Like, I'm not, I wouldn't be very good at picking hits and listening to five. 500 demos are going through TikTok or Spotify, like there's probably a million hits of the past year I would not pick up on. But if it's somebody who I hear something and I just feel that kind of like hair stand up or I'm just like it makes me feel like something. Oh my God, that's kind of all. And it basically sounds like nothing else that I can think of at that moment. So King Princess is sort of the main art, well, maybe the only artist at this moment on the label, that the first time I heard her song, 1950, I just like from the first line, I just. was in love with her voice and that's kind of it.

I'm just looking for anybody to move me. I'll never make any money off the label. It's just I hope they all make money, but I just like, that's not why I do it. I just do it to like give a platform to people that I think are interesting. I was watching your architectural digest. I thought it was really funny what you said that someone told you, the thing you want to show off most,

you should put in your guest bathroom because that's where most people will see it. And you have a framed letter from Stevie Wonder. and I just wonder what did he say to you or can you tell us like one thing or something about that relationship? Yeah, he's just you know like a lot of people like Pan, he's my absolute favorite ever

And Is he your number one? He's my absolute number one All right, Mark All right, it's great, it's great news Yeah, absolute number one And I had always wanted to Make some kind of piece of music with him

Which obviously just sounds like a pipe dream But on my last record, on the record with Uptown Funk, Uptown special, sorry, two records ago, I had this melody and we kept trying to put words to it, which was usually when I write a melody, it's like, okay, what are the lyrics? And every time I put lyrics, it sounded goofy, and I was like, the only thing I can hear doing this melody is Stevie Wonder's Harmonica. And everybody was like, yeah, that's great. And what else?

The one had recorded at the top of the Eiffel Tower. So I somehow, I just as like a kind of Hell Mary sent it to, We had the same sort of agent at CAA and Steve Harrodite. Rob, I've met him. Just because he repped DeAngelo as well. Oh, he did, of course, of course. I don't know if you said that. Yeah, I think he might.

Yeah, so Rob is a G, and he's like, I'll do what I can. I'll forward it on and put in a good word. So it turned out, and Stevie Wonder played this harmonica line. And so I finally got to meet. I actually didn't meet him. I went to his show in Toronto and I waited for half an hour and then I got so nervous at the prospect of meeting him because he's just such a hero that I left But he later asked me to be in in something that he was doing to raise awareness for I think it was either Martin Luther King

No, obviously he made that on a national holiday with happy birthday Some other thing that he was doing that was like sort of activist Oran movement, yes, so so he asked me and the letter was really it wasn't even like hey mark I hope everything's good it was just like probably a letter that just got sent to everybody. But I framed it anyway. I think it's a great move. And it's not a thumbprint on it. Oh, that's amazing.

Oh, wow. You gave that little tidbit of going to see Stevie Wonder Live and then chickening out and getting nervous. And it made me wonder, I mean, you've worked with a lot of the biggest names. You are one of the biggest names. Do you still get nervous? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think at some point I was like, I should have just like, manned up for lack of better term and just stayed there and met my hero but like what was I going to do

say something embarrassing maybe but um I feel like almost at some point it was almost like impolite not to wait around but I was just like a little bit freaked out maybe I hold him in such high esteem but as far as being nervous and because I still DJed quite a lot but like not like I did when I was playing four nights a week and I was like a well-oiled robot like in my 20s and could go into any room and not to kill it because I only play once or twice a month maybe now I always feel just a little rusty so I'm always like whether I'm playing like a basement club

for 200 people or like a big festival crowd I'm always fucking like that for until the second song is kind of like underway like the butterflies and my like the things are just so fucking horrible like and it was way worse when I used to smoke because you think

a cigarette calms your nose what all it does is just like sending you right to the nearest port of potty. Just like coffee. Just like coffee, I think it's going to help you out, but it's just bringing anxiety closer. Yeah. So I still get nervous. You know, there's like a romanticization of that. Like, Bowie and DMX threw up before every show.

Like, is it because it shows you care and you want it? Is there a healthy balance? Like, do you have to take beta blockers? Like, I think it's just, it's different for everyone. I feel like managed anxiety is sort of the best place you could want to get to maybe. Like I wouldn't ever want to I don't know what I would do if I lost it forever But I think like at least being like

Okay how much if this anxiety is actually real And the thing and how much are you just like Freaking out and being an idiot If you could go back to your To your middle school self 12 or 13 years old To that kid in the intern Into the what the mail room or

Yeah everywhere Yeah What would you say it's weird because you sort of like you don't want to change anything because I'm sort of finally happy in some ways about where I am like it's like if you

go back in time and step on an insect I agree with that Donald Trump become president but I just think that I don't think I'd say anything I would be fun to watch I'd just like be a fly in the wall and be like oh look at him like that robot that keeps going

into the wall and it's trying to clean the room is that the zoomba you just kind of look at him he just can't get out of his way he just keeps going he just keeps going the wrong way but yeah wrong way

sorry sorry now I'm perpetrators I don't know I wouldn't say anything because you know there was had a pretty good middle school in the end and whatever was like seemed like a trial and tribulation at the time or whatever was fine That's very sweet.

Thank you, Mark. This is so wonderful. Thanks so much. Nice to meet you. So today's real life middle school story comes from a listener who much like Mark Ronson is a prolific songwriter. Well, I guess you wrote one song about her crush. You're not really prolific.

Terrific. Not that either. Let me set the scene for you. It's 2009. I'm in sixth grade attending a very conservative religious school, and I'm obsessed with exactly three things. The 60s, the Civil War, and my crush, CJ. So, what's a girl like me to do? Isn't it obvious? Impress CJ by writing a song about Stonewall Jackson to the tune of eight days a week and perform it in front of our entire sixth grade class. I mean, what could go wrong, right? I somehow convinced my teacher to live. let me do this. And so there I am. At the front of the class, making eye contact with CJ, ready to just thrill him with my masterpiece, I open my mouth and it's gone.

I know the words, but what's the tune? How does it go? I flounder. No, I flail. I mumble a couple of verses while my teacher tries to make sense of it all. I cry. I cry a lot. I don't impress CJ or anyone, but when I go home early, I finally remember the tune.

Well, at least I have the world's catchiest song about Stonewall Jackson stuck in my head. Fuck. You can hear Mark Ronson's production in the new movie Elvis, or you can join his online music production course on BB. D.C. Meestro. And you can also follow him on Instagram at I am Mark Ronson. Podcrushed is hosted by Penn Badge Lee Navacavlin and Sophie Ansari. Our executive producer is Nora Richie from Stitcher. Our lead producer editor and composer is David Ansari. Our secondary editor is Sharaff and Twistel. This podcast is a ninth mode production. Be sure to subscribe to Podcrush. You can find us on Stitcher, the serious XM app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. If you'd like to submit a middle school story, go to podcrush.com and give us every detail. And

While you're online, be sure to follow us on socials, it's at Podcrush, spelled how it sounds, and our personals are at Pembadjley, at NAVA, that's NAVA with three ends, and at Scribble by Sophie. And we're out. See you next week. It also reminded me of my favorite tweet ever, which was so long ago. It was like at the advent of Twitter, but I remember some girl just, like, random girl posted. Cisco just blocked me for suggesting he calls his next album Thongs in the Key of Life. And I was like, God, that's really. If someone makes it fun in me and it's that good,

you have to have a sense of humor about it. Stitcher.