Podcrushed - Meghann Fahy

Episode Date: January 28, 2026

This week, the effortlessly talented actor Meghann Fahy stops by for a candid look at her journey from shy, gap-toothed singer to Emmy-nominated star. Meghann reflects on her "two-line" Gossip Girl debut, her whirlwind days on Broadway, and subverting expectations as Daphne on the smash series The White Lotus. Plus, Penn and Meghann discuss their upcoming rom-com, You Deserve Each Other, and the social media feud that nearly broke the internet.   To learn more about therapy with NOCD, go to https://www.nocd.com and schedule a free 15-minute call with their team.   🎧 Want more from Podcrushed? 📸 Instagram 🎵 TikTok 🐦 X / Twitter ✨ Follow Penn, Sophie & Nava Instagram Penn Sophie Nava TikTok Penn Sophie Nava  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada. Well, you know my first actual job on television was Gossip Girl. Yeah. Okay. But you had it, wasn't it like a line? Oh, yeah. It was like. Was that exciting?

Did you care? I cared so much. I loved Gossip Girl. You know, there are few, there's so few of those things, especially now. But even then it was like, it was like an institution. And I think like doing Gossip Girl and Law and Order SVU was like. Those are the two big New York shows. Institutions.

Truly. And I was like, cool, I can just be done now. It was so special. But to answer your question more legitimately, after that, the first thing that I got. You're saying Gus and Girl wasn't legitimate job. Okay, no, I just wanted to hear it from you. Well, by the way, you were like, yeah, but didn't you only have a line?

Yeah. No, it was too. I had two lines. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Sophie. And I'm Nava.

And I think we would have been your middle school. besties. Blasting the Goo Goo dolls and watching ourselves cry in the mirror. I just want you to know who I am. Right? Perfect. Welcome to Pod Crushed.

My name is Penn Badgell and I'm joined by my co-hosts Navajo. Cavlin and Sophie Ansari. Hello. I took a breath mirror between Navas first and last name. I didn't forget. All the choices he's made in life. Yeah.

Speaking of choices, we've made a really strong one here, We've made a strong one that will affect your lives and everyone you know. Have you ever heard of the butterfly effect? This one is like a rhinoceros fluttering its wings. This one, the world is quaking. We're ending the podcast in case you haven't heard. We are ending this point.

We're bringing it to a close. Like middle school, this two must end. And you look back on it more fondly than you experienced it. It's our graduation. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. But it's something to look forward to. I feel like it's quite rare for a podcast to actually consciously end to like take a moment and be like, okay. But we're so conscious. We are very conscious and intentional or thoughtful people. And so you are getting a final episode that is worth it. It's worth it. It's going to be special.

No, this is not our final episode. This one is not even you just yet. So special. I know. This is very special. Because we were actually thinking about how we wanted to bring Pod Crush to a close. And we, I'm going to name it out loud. We thought, how can we be generous with our listeners?

Like, what would be, what are some nice little gifts that we can give our listeners? A few more generous than we've been. So we thought, you know, you guys haven't seen it yet, but you will at some point. And Megan Fahey will become someone that you are definitely going to want to see in conversation with Penn. So we really wanted to bring her on before the show closed to have that opportunity. I'm sure a lot of you're going to revisit this episode once you see the movie. And then we have some special surprises, one that I think you guys are going to love based on the last four years of begging for that surprise that's coming your way. If the comments are to be trusted, which, you know, to me they shouldn't be.

But Nevin Sophie, they trust the comments. I keep telling them, don't do it. Don't do it. I actually very often, and I'm like, one person said they liked this type of episode, so we should keep making them. I think I'm on them that I highlight. Yeah, swayed by a comment. Oh, it's so funny. But we're going to miss you all.

We're going to miss doing the show. Yeah. It's been such a pleasure and more sweet things to come, hopefully. Oh, yeah. So, moving on, we are guests today is the very talented, the very lovely, seriously talented. Megan Fahey. She's been Emmy nominated twice as, uh, we make jokes about later.

Her work spans some of the most talked about shows in recent years, truly. Namely, the White Lotus. Is it the White Lotus guys? I think, I don't know, actually. I don't know. They'll correct us in the comments. No way to find out.

There's no way. There's no way to find out. I don't want to stop. We won't re-record this. It's an endlessly nominated show. It's the White Lotus, by the way. It doesn't need me knowing, frankly. And then there's, of course, sirens.

Not the sirens, but sirens, which is the second Emmy nomination that Megan got, and she's phenomenal in that. It also features just like White Lotus, many other incredible actors. Megan really shines in it. There's also something that we did together, a little rom-com, you know,

given the comments what they're asking for. Right? I finally did it. It's called you deserve each other. We don't know when it's coming out. Probably this year. Probably. That's, I mean, it must. Oh, and actually, where you probably first fell in love with her was her very first role ever on Gossip Girl. Yes, that's the one. That was the first time she and I met and we just, we hit it off. No, I didn't know. We didn't have seen together and I didn't know. I didn't know. But it's crazy that her character in Gossip Girl was called Devin and her character in Sirens is also Devin. Are you sure that's true?

Is that something that ChatGPT just whipped up? No, that's true. She talked about it in an interview. In this interview? No. Were you asleep? No, no. In an interview. Oh, guys, I'm so sad this is coming to an end. We're not going to be able to do this. You know what will happen is when we have

We'll just call each other once a month and roast. Roast each other three of us. Get on a riverside. When we interact, we're going to be. genuine and we're not going to be cutting at all. That's just going to happen. We're going to return to an authentic loving kindness. And yeah, it's going to be so boring and it's not going to get numbers, by the way. No, more ads. Nothing like a conscious uncoupling, right? We will be right back. We'll be right back. We'll be right back with Megan. Just let me get to the break.

We'll be right back with Megan Fahey. Hey there. It's Julia Louis Dreyfus. I'm back with a new season of Wiser Than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor, and their hard-earned wisdom. Every conversation leads me a little smarter and definitely more inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91-year-old mom, Judy, to get her take on it all. Wiser than me from Lemonada Media is out now, wherever you get your podcasts. It's morning. New York. Oh, God.

Hey, everybody. I'm Mandy Patinkin. And I'm Catherine Grady. And we have a new podcast. It's called Don't Listen to Us. Many of you've asked for our advice. Tell me, what is wrong with you people? Don't listen to us.

Our Take It or Leave a Advice show, every Wednesday out now. A Lemonada Media Original. 12-year-old Megan, like, what, how was she seeing, the world, what was her day-to-day life like at home and at school? Just give us like a quick, um, quirky snapshot. Um, I had like a huge gap tooth. Really? Yeah, yeah. I was like incredibly lanky. Um, very late bloomer. Um, and really, really shy. And, um, and I spent a lot of my weekends, like singing in really weird places with, like, my little sort of, like, karaoke, like, machine.

What? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, you name it. I was, like, in hospital, then churches, children's birthday parties, like, fair around New England. Were you getting paid? Sometimes I was. I did a lot of, like, the national anthem.

No, of course, that's not what it was about. First time I sang was, I was eight years old. It was the girl, my Girl Scout talent show. And I had crippling performance anxiety, but I actually loved to sing once I actually could like get myself to be doing it. And it definitely set me apart from a lot of my friends at that age for sure because they were doing other stuff on the weekends. But yeah, that was kind of, I guess, the sort of little nutshell, the 12-year-old Megan nutshell. I love this like wheeling a wheeling an amp around. You know?

Yeah, yeah. Like, I imagine you, like, an older Irish man from once, just like with a long scarf, just wheeling that thing around. That's right. That's absolutely right. Just with, like, illegally burned mixtapes off of, like, Napster and Limewire with, like, karaoke tracks to all of my favorite Avrilavine songs. Yeah, that was, that was me.

Did it help desensitize you with your anxiety? for singing? Never really went away. It actually got a lot worse, the older I got. Eventually, I moved to New York when I was 18 after high school. And I was in a musical. And so then I started auditioning for all kinds of musical theater because I think I had done one musical theater show. And so my agent at the time was like, well, you do this. And it just really actually broke my spirit. I would go into these rooms and I just didn't have the training. And I didn't grow up listening to musical theater. So it wasn't something that I felt really connected to.

And I just, you know, I got to a place where I was like, I actually have to stop doing this because there's a fine line between sort of like challenging yourself and pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone and then knowing when you're doing that, but it's not, you're not getting anything back. Yeah. And I felt like I had reached that place. So yeah, anxiety is like a huge, I really, I think of something. I think of singing and I think of that sometimes.

It was just such a huge part of my, like, young adolescents. Like, I just had so much anxiety. Sort of across the board, but especially as it, like, applied to leading up to performing. I think about, you know, how Beyonce is, like, really shy, but then her stage persona is Sasha Fierce, and then she's, like, transforms. Did you ever have moments like that where you had, like, a really, like, vibrant persona when you were singing? And then when did that die? Yeah.

Yeah. I think the thing is like, the reason I would keep doing it is because I would tap into that feeling sort of every time I performed in one way or another where like something else took over and it was joyful. But everything leading up to that was torture. But I think like slipping into that space in some capacity is what kept me from really. like I wanted to do it. It just like caused me a lot of of turmoil, which is that a thing that I feel like probably

a lot of people who have something like that that feels very like close to their spirit. It can be hard to sort of inhabit that space. There's something so innately intense about sharing that part of yourself. Yeah. Well, I'm thinking about shy kids in my school. And I can't think of a single shy kid who like then did a talent show and was like really bold. So I'm just wondering how you're. classmates or friends who knew you was really shy reacted when you would perform or show up at a party doing karaoke.

Yeah, what was their reaction to you? Let's just get one thing straight. I was never showing up at a party that any of my friends were at. Yeah, key, important details. Smart. But no, I did. I did. I used to perform at the talent shows in middle school.

And that was a uniquely sort of terrifying experience. Because I think like all the boys were always sort of making fun. And so, yeah, I don't remember being like, well, I really showed them. Can you tell us a little bit about your dynamic with your parents growing up? I guess as it applies to like all of the things that I really wanted to do, like, you know, my parents were very supportive. They bought me the gear and they, you know, carted me around to all these places. And ultimately when I told them I didn't, I wasn't going to go to college. because I was going to move to New York and do this musical.

They were like, great, go for it. We totally think you can do it. We were on vacation in Rhode Island over the summer. I had just graduated from high school. And my mom had heard about an open call they were having in New York from a friend of hers at work. It was like on the news or something. They were doing an open call for Spider-Man, the musical.

And my mom was like, we should go. And I was so riddled with anxiety and fear about going. My dad could really see that. And he thought, you know, we shouldn't make her do this. Like, if she doesn't want to go, like, screw it. Let's just not go. And my mom was like, no, she wants to go. I know she wants to go.

She's just really nervous. I think we should just like, you know. And my mom, like, to be clear, was really not a stated mom, like, genuinely. And she was right. Like I actually did really want to go. I was just absolutely paralyzed. And I had said to her once when I was a kid and I remember this. I remember saying like I really want you to push me and I need you to help me kind of like get beyond these feeling, the fear that I have.

Because and then I went and that was one of these auditions where I went in and it went well. And I just remember like busting out of the doors onto the street. and my parents were waiting outside for me and I was like, it was like, you know, I had just, I don't know, taken some kind of upper. Like I was like, I just was like, I felt so amazing and I was like, wow, thank God.

And then we went home and like, the casting director called us, Bernie Telsie, and said they wanted to bring me back to audition for this, for this show called Next to Normal to be the understudy. And that's kind of what set the entire thing in motion. But that I think is like a fun example of sort of like my parents sort of stance on things generally. My dad's a little bit more like, don't, you know, if you just don't do it if you don't want to do it. But if you do, great, like we're here.

And my mom's like, no, she wants to. Did you grow up in Longmeadow, Massachusetts? I did. My dad grew up in Amherst, Massachusetts, which I was seeing as just like very close by size. Yeah, like 30 minutes. Yeah, I was asking him about it last night. They're staying with me and he was telling me that he played lacrosse with Long Meadow High. And I was like, what was your impression? And he was like, they always had perfectly trimmed grass on their field. He said, our grass was always patchy and there were parts that it was just dirt. And I just thought that was funny. And I was curious what your take is on Long Meadow. Like if you gave us a little snapshot of it. Yeah. I mean, I think it is sort of known as being one of the. these little sort of like white picket fence towns.

I never really felt like I was centered in that. Like I think like all of my friends were wealthier than we were. I mean, I had a lovely, lovely life and childhood. And I'm not saying that. But like, yeah, I was definitely on the sort of like more working class end of like some of my friends' houses that I would go to. And I was like, holy shit. This is an actual mansion.

and you're driving an Audi to school and I'm driving my grandfather's five-speed Mazda, which I loved. I actually did. Mazda's are cute. Yeah, it was cute, but there was definitely a sort of disparity, I think, in terms of like sort of what I knew the town was perceived as being and how I feel like I've fit into it.

But oh my God, we used to go to hockey games and we would play other teams, and the chant that the guys... in my high school would chant at these other teams was, your dad works for our dad. Wow. So it really was like a person that permeated. That's like Parks and Rec, like Eagleton versus Pony.

Totally. Crazy. Like, how crazy is that? I want to know the melody and the rhythm a little bit. Like, how does that? It doesn't have a. It was like very taunty. Literally, nana, nana, naboo.

Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. Just a terrible. terrible, terrible thing to do. And I think, I don't know, I guess, for whatever reason at that age, like there's a certain, it felt like to me even then there's like a certain pride that was taken in being a part of a thing that felt elite in some way.

Do you know what I mean? And I don't know why that was. But it's interesting that your dad, your dad, right? Yes. Said that about the grass. Did your dad work for her dad? Probably maybe. Definitely not.

I read your profile in the cut. It was a great profile from this year. And it starts in a really funny way with you, like, reading a list of, like, memoir titles that you keep in your phone to the journalist. And I'm curious, I'm putting you on the spot. But if you had to come up with a memoir tell-all title for your middle school years, what would it be called? I probably have something in my list of memoirs right now that would really,

should we pull it up? Let's do it. I'm not going to go to the problem. to find the solution is the last one I wrote down. That's really good. That's sound advice. I don't remember where that came from. Another one is I feel like trying that, which honestly...

I feel like trying that? I feel like trying that. That's good. We have a question that we ask everybody, but in the context of I feel like trying that, I want to know what your first experiences were around like crushes, first love, heartbreak. Like were other people going through it first and you felt like trying that? Yes. I, as mentioned was an incredibly late bloomer.

And so like in high school, all of my girlfriends were like dating older guys and going to parties in other towns and cars. And I wasn't. And I was like in the basement listening to Dashboard Confessional. Oh my gosh. I love it. Yeah. Yeah. And I like definitely had exclusively like.

like sad quotes in my AIM profile from songs about like, so to me it was sort of like my my first kiss was like I was like a sophomore in high school. And I remember we were all at a party at my friend Jack's house. And like I had been sort of like, you know, AIMing with this with this guy who ended up being my first love. And everybody knew we were going to like make out. And we went into the backyard and like everyone was like in the house and like knew that we were out there to kiss and it was just like horrible and just so mortifying and and so much later than everyone else too which felt like there was something particularly embarrassing about knowing that everyone else at the party knew that that's what was happening you know oh totally but sophomore isn't

that late so that may yeah is it not no i feel like a lot of people have their first case i feel like all of my girlfriends were making out with guys in eighth grade. Yeah, no, I had my first makeout in 10th grade and I felt similarly. I was like, I'm behind the eight ball. I got to get on this. So that was your first love. How did it become a heartbreak? Did it? They're still together, actually. Yeah, we're actually. 20 years later. It did. Yes, I broke up with him and it didn't go well. We have one other classic question we ask everyone, which is to share a particularly, like, cringy or embarrassing moment from adolescence. So these two teeth, like right next to my front teeth, I was born, like, without my adult teeth. It's like on both sides of my family, both my grandmother's same thing.

Wow. My brother is like fine. So you weren't going to get these teeth ever? No. They just weren't there. In my ums. Wow. So when I got braces, they pulled the baby teeth out and they put like fake teeth in.

Wow. And I'm sure I got my braces off. I had these two teeth. I can't believe I'm telling the story. I've never told this story before. It's incredibly humbling. I had what they call a flipper. Oh, yeah.

And I had these two fake teeth like on, and now I have like a permanent situation and it's, I'm not like at risk of this ever happening again, hopefully. but I had these temporary teeth on this little flipper and I was like in the hallway yelling down the hall to somebody and I just spit my teeth out and they just went like sliding down the linoleum hallway and I just like ran at them and grabbed it and put it back in my mouth

and it was yeah really really a formative experience for me really shaped I think how I moved through the world That's crazy. You didn't get like sepsis after that. I mean, I'm sure I like ran into the bathroom and like did something. But it was just like this immediate thing of like those are my teeth sliding down the hallway. That's crazy. I just feel like, but honestly I feel really grateful that those like things were a part of that, you know, me sort of becoming a young woman because really.

Like when something like that happened, you're just kind of like, all right, I just picked them up. Then I kept moving. Yeah. You know, like I think, I don't know. I'm weirdly, really grateful for those deeply, deeply mortifying. And hard to explain too when you're a kid. Like, how do you even talk about something like that? Like I just hit it from everybody.

I didn't want anybody to know that that was true about me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Everybody has fake teeth now. It's true. It's true. Penn definitely does.

Look at these things. Oh, yeah. That's what everybody says online. This guy has famously great teeth. There's no way they're real. You do have great teeth. He's in those compilations of the people we wish to. Honestly, your teeth are like the teeth that I had before I got braces and closed my gap.

Your teeth are the kind of teeth I had to perfect. No. I just wish. Honestly, I feel like. I would rock that now. Yeah. Well, you know, I do have bonding. So my teeth are even further apart.

Like, I could probably almost fit my fit. My teeth are so. Did you get bonding so that you could close the gap a little bit? I got bonding to become a famous actor, so. Oh, God, I got it. Well, so. When was that? Yeah, it didn't ever happen, did it?

I did get you back? No, yeah. When did I get bonding first? I've probably 14, 15 years old and then I got braces later so I took the bonding off there was a point in time

where my teeth were touching and then they didn't I needed I needed yeah but that was bonding that was bonding plus braces off and then I never wore my retainer because it's just a lot of it's a lot of yeah it feels hard to do that

it does every night yeah right and Sophie do you guys have Did you ever have to do a retainer thing? I had braces and then I did wear my retainer and I had some issue with my jaw. I had the kind. You had to lock it.

Oh, you had the pallet expander. You had to put a little key in and lock it and I would often hit my like top gum and it would bleed. That's a very vivid memory for me. It's really like a medieval torture device. I think a pallet expander. When you really think about the function of a palate expander, it's insane. It's insane and they haven't come up with a better solution. They are still doing it.

Cousin is going to have to do it for her kid. I had a pallet expanded too, and it was horrifying. It was the worst. Did it affect your speech? It affected my speech at the beginning, but really it was eating, like, because there's a space between the roof of your mouth and this, like, metal thing. And so, like, food will get stuck up there. At first, you have to just have everything.

My dad would make a full meal, put it into the blender. Wow. And feed it to me. Disgusting. No way. Hey. Hold on. Wait, why did he feed it to you? You could have just... Headed it to me. Head it to me.

Okay, there's some other issues there. Did you grow your arms then? No, no. Nothing weird here. Actually, just for reference, Megan, because I know you don't listen to the show. It's fine. Sophie has a famously healthy family. Super, super healthy. No, I'm not making. This is not. It's not. It's not. sounds like I'm making a joke. I'm not. Like she's got really sweet. She's got a health conscious.

Yeah. Well, no, no, no. I mean, I'm talking, I'm talking like emotionally and behaviorally so that. Oh, the best kind. So that's yeah. Yeah. That's very exciting. Yeah. Cross your mind. I'm happy to you.

Megan clearly works in the same industry as me because that didn't be idea that you would have an emotionally healthy family. He's like, well, we don't live on Mars. I went straight to like, they drink green smoothies in the morning. Yeah. And no one is sick. They never get the cold That comes around the winter

Oh, that's so great Highly functioning, wow Yeah What a world I feel like Penn's house is that way You're building a healthy family Well sure I'm trying to yeah No my God but I mean

Well Megan I've not seen you since Or like really spoken much since we had the babies I know I didn't want to bother you But I was like We're the pics at We didn't get pictures for a long time You didn't

We had to call him out on the podcast And then he sent us pictures. Literally the day the episode aired. Don't go anywhere. We'll be right back. We talk about uncomfortable moments a lot on Pod Crush, but today I want to talk to you about a different type of discomfort. It comes from having relentless, stressful, unwanted thoughts about your relationships,

your health, your identity, or even disturbing scenarios that you know you'd never act on. And this discomfort isn't a one-time thing. Those unwanted thoughts keep coming back and the distress just, keeps growing. It's a terrible way to feel and you want to get rid of those thoughts so badly that you'll spend hours doing anything that seems like it might help. Maybe it's checking and rechecking your text to make sure you didn't say the wrong thing. Maybe it's walking back into the kitchen for the fifth time to be certain that the stove is off because even though you're late for work, you just can't be sure that it really is. Maybe it's something else. But no matter what you try,

those anxiety-provoking thoughts just won't quit. These experiences can be symptoms of obsessive compulsive disorder or OCD. If this doesn't sound like OCD to you, that's because OCD is highly misunderstood. The truth is, OCD can latch on to anything that matters to you and whatever it affects, it can be debilitating. But with the right kind of therapy, it is highly treatable. And that's why I want to tell you about no CD. NoCD provides virtual therapy that can help you take your life back from OCD. Their licensed therapists are trained in a specialized treatment designed specifically for OCD, exposure and response prevention therapy or ERP. NoCD also accepts many major insurance plans and provides always on support between therapy

sessions. To learn more about therapy with noCD, go to nocd.com and schedule a free 15-minute call with their team. That's N-O-CD.com to learn more and book a free 15-minute call. A new year is a fresh start, right? And what better goal than learning a new language, right? right, right? Whether you're connecting with family or maybe you're boosting your career or preparing for an upcoming trip, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to take the first step towards learning a new

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This has been proven in almost every state. Maybe that's why I-Exel is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get I-Exel now. And Podcrush listeners can get an exclusive 20% off I-XL membership when they sign up today at I-Excel.com slash podcrushed. Visit I-Xel.com slash podcrush to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. Megan, let's talk about your career. Yeah.

I want to hear like the six. It is actually boring, but we got to take up at least another 30 minutes, so we're going to have to try. It sounds like this class play at like 17 or 18. You mentioned it briefly, but I think to me what's interesting for everybody who comes on is like, when did it really become professional? Because actually, I think what's unclear is you did get this understudy job? You did. And did you ever, did you get to perform much on actual nights?

Or did that opportunity never come in that understudy position? It did come. And I was actually really lucky the first time I went on. Jen Damiano is the actress that I was understudying. And she was a year younger than I was. So when we were on Broadway, she missed her first show to go to her high school graduation. And so I actually had some notice

and was able to sort of invite my family to come see me. And then I went on, you know, a bunch of other times after that. It was really demanding show, like, vocally but also emotionally. And so it was a tough one, I think, for all of the sort of main cast to not miss something. So all the other understudies got to go on, which was nice. And then she left in a very full circle moment to go be Mary Jane and Spider-Man, which was the original audition I'd had. and I took over for her.

And I closed the show. I did the last like eight months, I think, of the run. Wow. Which was really special. It was obviously very special to me then, but even the older I get, the more special it is because I just have more of an understanding of how rare that even is to be an understudy who then gets to sort of, you know,

take over in that capacity. It was like a really lovely chance that they gave. me to do that. And it changed, you know, everything for me, really. Megan, how did you end up on one life to live at the same time, right? Weren't you also doing a soap during the day? Yes, I was for a little bit. I think I just auditioned for it. I just auditioned for it. And I guess what is like a very normal way? And then, um, and then yeah, I was doing both at the same time. So I would go at like, you know, 7 a.m. or whatever. And then they would, they would have to release me in time. And then, because when I was on One Life to Live,

the studios were on like 66. It was by Lincoln Center. And so they would have to release me in time so that it could take the train down to Midtown and make half hour. And then I would just do the show. And then I did that for a bit. And then One Life to Live went off the air.

And, but I loved my time on the soap. I really credit my... It was like a year? I think that sounds right. Did you feel like someone you've actually worked with? I've only been on his podcast and he's been on ours. But Kevin Bacon, he said something that I thought was a really wise distinction to make. You hear actors say often who started on soaps, which is a lot of them, that it's great training.

And they say that kind of because the sort of background on it is like you just get, I mean, my memory when I was on a soap is like you get like one or two takes, right? Kind of like tops. It's super fast. You got to learn your lines real fast. Wow. It's, it's, and what, but what the distinction Kevin made is like, it's great training technically. It's not the best training for your acting because actually you don't, you don't, you don't

necessarily have the most opportunity to really do that, to do that work. What was your, what was your experience? So did you feel then like, whatever, I'm getting to do this and it, I'm building my, quote, craft or I'm just like, or yeah, like how did you feel when you're on it? I mean, I don't think I was thinking about it in that way at all. I think I just couldn't believe that I was even living in New York and was making money in any capacity. I mean, the show that I was doing at night was like incredibly creatively fulfilling.

I learned so much doing that. I think the soap really taught me memorization. Like truly, I believe that my ability to this day to learn dialogue quickly is because of that. But I do remember being aware of like, okay, because, you know, you go on those things. I'm sure it was true for you too, Penn, when you did it. There are people who have been on those shows for 30 years. Oh, my goodness, yeah.

Which is incredible. And I do remember thinking, you know, there was a thing that my middle school principal said once. It was practice does not make perfect. Practice makes permanent. So like if you're practicing something not the best way. Yeah. You'll just sort of drive that wrong thing home. And I think that's true for something like that where it's like if you're,

if you're learning bad habits from other people that you're working with or, you know, in any capacity, like if you're, if you're not sort of careful about that, if you're not aware of it, those things can really stick. And then it's hard to sort of unlearn those bad habits. So after this phase of being on Broadway and, soap, which is, which is, and how old were you? You were like 19, 20? I think I was 19, yeah.

Yeah, so you're like coming right out of high school. Yeah. Were you, did you go to college? I didn't go to college. You didn't go to college. So you, so you were just, so you just go right from high school into this, like, highly professional and kind of intense, you know, you're talking about anxiety before. And I mean, it doesn't, you know, regardless of how much anybody is able to identify their anxiety. I mean, I don't care who you are, you know, being on camera and on stage constantly on a daily basis

when you've just gotten out of high school is a huge jump. So you have this year of like, I would, you know, I'm not talking about the craft, like the craft, but just honing the technical. There is so much technical about it that is so you're suddenly just like

a year out the gate, you're like really gaining a lot of experience. What was the first major role after these two first roles you had? Well, you know my first actual job on television was Gossip Girl. Yeah. Okay.

But you had, wasn't it like a line? Oh, yeah. It was like... Was that exciting? Did you care? I cared so much. I loved Gossip Girl. Really?

Okay. Yes. I was only devastated that my scene wasn't with you. Yeah, well, I mean, most people who guessed it on the show, that's a big Dan fan. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Dan famously.

Your scene was with Nate, with Chase? No, it was with Ed, Ed Westwick. And you said you were a coach, a check girl? Yeah, something like that. Something like that. But no, I was so excited. I loved Gossip Girl. I just thought, like, oh, my, it was such a New York, like, you know, there are, there's so few of those.

things, especially now, but even then it was like, it was like an institution. And I think like doing Gossip Girl and Law and Order SVU was like... Those are the two big New York shows. Institutions. Truly. And I was like, cool, I can just be done now. It was so special. But to answer your question more legitimately, after that, the first big thing that I got... You're saying Gossip Girl wasn't a legitimate job. Okay, no, I just wanted to hear it from you. Well, by the way, You were like, yeah, but didn't you only have a line? Yeah. No, it was two.

I had two lines. What I mean is for you, it was not, it was not like, at that point you'd already actually been doing so much. Well, no, it was a hundred percent. It was, yeah. Yeah. But my first sort of actual big thing that happened after Next to Normal was not for years after it was the bold type. Oh, it really was that.

Okay. It was that. was my first series regular job ever. I had done like one pilot prior to that that didn't get picked up. And I was only a recurring role on that too. So and that was, I mean, I think we filmed the pilot when I was 25 going on 26. And I was done with Next to Normal when I was 22, I think. So it was a lot of years in between that.

That's a lot of shows. So you did Next to Normal for three years. Yeah, like two and a half-ish. Okay. I mean, but that's a lot of them. Because we had done like an out-of-town run and then when it got to Broadway, it was two and a half. So it ended up being like over three total that it was like a part of my life. Wow.

But, um, yeah. Was there a point in time between, so you said you ended that at 22 and then started the bolt type around 26? Was there a point during that four years where you felt like should I try something different or were you feeling confident the whole time? I wasn't feeling confident, but I also didn't think. about doing anything else either. And I don't even think it was something

that I was really aware of. I just sort of never thought about it. I was auditioning enough that I thought, you know, that to me at the time felt like the most important thing. It's like, well, I'm having, the opportunity they're here. So like, statistically, eventually, if I just keep doing this, like something, something has to happen. Yeah, I never thought about doing something else.

I don't know why. Well, you're so good at it. It's good. You didn't. Yeah. No, that's really nice. The Bull type is such a great show. I watched every season.

And Sutton is a really interesting character because I feel like she, I don't know if this is correct, but my recollection is that she has like the biggest kind of emotional roller coaster on the show. And she, I think in season four, she has like a miscarriage and is like on the brink of divorce. And I'm curious how you kind of. calibrated, like, really heavy emotional drama in what was also a comedy or somewhat of a comedy. Yeah, I'm just curious how you approached it. I thought you did it beautifully. But yeah, what was it like for you to film those episodes?

I think that my favorite space to be in is that space where things are really funny and really sad. I love watching things like that. And I certainly love inhabiting those spaces. There's something strange. strangely that I find quite freeing about it. So I never really saw it as being too much to ask or anything because it just felt like that's being alive, isn't it? I don't know. I think I just sort of love the duality of those feelings. And I think, you know, like there is so much humor sometimes and like weeping. You know, like.

And so I don't know. I just, I think even as a kid, like, I always held so much space for both of those feelings in my life. And I felt like I lived in between those two feelings a lot of my young years, you know. And so it felt like safe space to me in a strange way, I think. I'm actually just realizing that right now, as I say that out loud, that I think I feel that way. But it didn't feel like, um, unknown territory to me. It felt familiar.

And so therefore, I think it almost felt like slipping into like, I think the way I approach like any acting that I do is like really through a lot of compassion. And whether that be literally for myself going through the thing or like imagining like the character as a person, like what this person would feel. And it's like I just always feel. like that's the thing that makes me cry when I'm doing something that evokes that emotion is like, you know, is that.

I think we could feel it in your performance. It was really authentic and moving. Working with you. The first I saw you was Sirens and then I worked with you basically. And my sense of you is that this is your, this is what you do. You know, you are funny and tragic. I'm saying tragic because it's not funny and sad sounds kind of like, funny is it?

Yeah. But I mean, it's like, you know, it's evoking a real, a real sadness, which it can be heartbreaking, also being truly funny, all really in the same breath and doing it, I think, effortlessly. Like there's some quality that I realized that in prepping this, I was just thinking, I was like, racking my brain, like, what am I going to ask her?

Oh, my God, I don't even know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't even know. I just thought you really seem effortless. And it was even occurring to me when you're talking about anxiety, like because now, you know, years later that you've, you're at least honed, trained, whatever you want to call it, experienced. Like you, you know, I don't experience you remotely as an anxious person or a person who has to try. You just do. You just sort of, you know, you really, really, there's not like a take. I'm not kidding. There's not a take. I can ever recall you feeling like, I don't know, like you weren't sure of what you were doing. I actually thought it

was really interesting. Oh, wow. I also recall reading, and let's see if it's true, you felt like Sirens was, you didn't say a rival. I'm saying a rival. But there was something in that role where you know you were just really really excited to jump in and it occurs to me that maybe it was sort of like the opportunity to be really funny and really sad truly all the time yeah like truly every single moment for how many episodes like six five yeah five i five i think and you're doing it alongside people who can do it just as well as you you know with like some really fantastic actors um but we're not going to get there yet we do want to talk about the white lotus So let me just put a pin.

Because the White Lotus, I feel like, is your stepping stone to that. You know, you're not like the titular character necessarily. I mean, it's a big old ensemble, right? Yeah. And it's not multiple seasons. So, but it feels to me like White Lotus is, is the moment where you step into the prestige, the prestige stage to do the funny, sad thing, the funny, dark thing. You know what I mean?

Totally. Yeah. I think, well, first of all, that was so, that was so, that was, such a sweet reflection. Thank you for saying that stuff. That's so nice coming from you because I just also think you're so fantastic. But I think when I first got White Lotus, I was almost on the first season and then I wasn't and I was so gutted.

And then obviously the second season was like because the first season had done so well, it felt like there was like this really incredible sort of expectation. And I was so nervous when I first got there. And then as soon as we kind of started going, I was like, oh, I actually think I'm so much closer to this character in the second season that I would have been to the character that I was up for the first season. And I just thought, what an incredible sort of journey to go on and realize like, oh, there was, there's always a reason why certain things don't happen or they do, but not to later or whatever it is. Like I always find that when I really look at that, there's always something that I'm really grateful. like I'm always grateful for like sort of the timing. And I think Daphne is definitely is in the pocket of like that kind of woman that I love to play because it's like,

she, she, I think the thing that I was so sort of surprised by after White Lotus was how many people would come up to me and say, oh, it felt so bad for her. I just felt so bad for her, the character of Daphne. And I would think, I don't, I didn't. I didn't. The whole time I was filming that, I never felt sorry for her. And it was so curious to me that so many audience members did. And I understood why, you know, I understood why. But I think that was what made her such an incredible character

in the way that Mike sort of, wrote her is that she really subverted something, you know, I think that it would have been really easy to see her as a victim. And Mike was very clear with me right from the beginning. She is not a victim of her circumstances. That to me was like the only thing I really needed to know about Daphne. And but the fact that a lot of like people who watched the show didn't, didn't know that or see that or feel that, I found really interesting. That is interesting because I think it does come through in the overall series that Daphne is way more in control than we think.

But I think that reveal takes a while. So I can understand why if you watch the whole thing, I think it does become clear. And one of the questions I had for you was like, did you know, but it sounds like you did that she is like way more in control than the audience realizes. Yeah. So she's sort of like in on it in a way. Like she fully knows what's happening with her husband. and she has her own.

Yeah. And that's not to say that I think, but I think both things exist. I think that we see her get hurt too. I think we see her be hurt as well. But I think like... Well, she starts from, I think, a bit of a tragic place, you know? Yeah.

Like just just, just, just even though she's not a victim of her circumstances, to me that that suggests, well, she's found a way to command power and, and, um, use her circumstances for her, apparent gain, but it's actually still a bit of a tragic circumstance, you know. Yeah, it sort of like leans, it sort of like leans into like a resilient, like a resilience, like thing. Yeah.

In the sense that you do learn throughout the season that she is someone who is, who is making very deliberate choices about how she interacts with the world around her. And I would file that quality under the resilience umbrella, you know, because I think that's like there's agency in that. Yeah, she does not seem to have agency at the beginning. Right, and it doesn't also mean that you can't have agency and not be taken advantage of or, you know, all these other things that can make you feel wounded or whatever.

It's like all of that can be true. And, you know, you can be somebody who is like in control of how you're moving through the world. which I think is really interesting. I think a lot of people are hoping that there's going to be an all-star season. So I'm curious, if you were to return for an all-star season, who would you bring back from your season

and who would you bring from season one and season three? I mean, for my season, I feel like I would love to bring Theo back because he's just so fun and we just had a blast together. And I think his energy is really unique. But it's hard because, like, I'm such a fan of Lil Sharp. I just think that he's like literally a genius.

He's so good. Writer and director and actor. And I just will never forget hanging out with him in the lobby of the hotel before we started filming. And he said, you know, that he was nervous because he hadn't acted in like years. And then he just like turned out this performance that was like so crazy good. I was like, how dare you? So yeah, my season would be. tricky because there's just so many, I mean, people that I would love to, and I think like I would

love to have the opportunity to act really with Will, because we didn't, we had like a couple of scenes and one in particular that was obviously really special, but I would love to get the opportunity to like really work with him on something a little bit more. And then from another season, I mean, obviously all of the best people are dead. Yeah, Amy. Bring him back from the dead. I want Marie. Bartlett everywhere all the time. I think he's such a fantastic actor and such a, he just brings such an incredible like spirit to everything that he does. So he'd probably be number one to bring back. I don't know. Do you, who would you bring back, Nava? I think I would bring back Alexandra to Dario,

because I just want to know where she, like, she actually experienced something so traumatic. And I'm curious where that goes for her. And maybe even her juicy husband. I'd be curious to see where he ends up. I mean, I do think about what happened to that character a lot. Yeah. I do. I'd love to know. I'd be very happy to see that storyline play out.

Is he more of an asshole? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I would bring you and Theo back. I would bring Leo and Haley, I think, back. I love Haley. Yeah.

And then season three. Who would I bring back for season three? The family. I want to know what happens to that family. Obviously, Parker Posey. We have to have Parker Posey back. Yeah, of course. That's who I would cast.

I really wish I could add something. I, you know, I only have seen one episode of that show and I did it when I was, you know, knew that, yeah. What's the deal? What do you mean? Like, what's wrong with you, Penn? Everyone's seen it. We know what's wrong with me.

You've got four kids, yes. You know. No, that I only had to. Yeah, no, you know, it's hard for me to watch things and make time for it. Whatever. One thing I learned about Penn is that he has very particular. taste. He does. I do. And I really admire that. I genuinely do. Yeah. Well, that makes one of us here. Yeah. I, I, you know, the truth is, so Navva and I have a production company together and

Navas said recently, which I was like, that's fair. That's totally fair. She was like, I can't really nail your taste down, you know, because it's like, because the truth, the unfortunate truth, and, you know, I've been doing this for so long. Maybe it's like, you just, you know how the sausage is made and you just don't want to eat sausage. Like, it's, especially when you say it like that. I think it's, it's really like, I, I know what I don't like. I very rarely see things that I really do love. And they're not consistent, by the way.

They're not, but you know, the last thing that I watched that I loved, like absolutely loved. Oh, yeah. What is it? Was after son, the Paul Meskell. I forget the young actress's name and I forget the director's name, but it's a first time Scottish director who's a woman and it's like Paul Meskell and like a 12-ish-year-old girl. So it's very much coming-of-age story, but that's not why. That's a, that took me out to do that film.

That's a stunning, stunning, lovely, lovely, like, masterful work by everyone involved. But it's also feeling it's kind of like it shouldn't be such an exceptional thing, you know what I mean? That kind of story to me. It really shouldn't be so exceptional. It's like it's just very quietly told, but it's about something that feels very universal, but told in a very particular way. It's got like three people in it, basically. You know, it's not like, you know, super high concept or anything.

It's just well told. And I don't know how people get those things made, you know what I mean? It's just hard. I know. It's an incredible example of just sort of letting, letting something exist and, like, creating space for something to sort of breathe and be without shabing. Yeah, without like full of cliffhangers and darkness and murder and drama. And yes, fine. I get why all those things are palettes and modern television and film.

And like that's our bread and butter right now. So, you know, fine. But yeah, I just think because I make so much of this, because I've been doing it for so long and I feel like, yeah, I just want to, I just want to watch something where I'm not thinking about who's in it. You know? Yeah. I'm not, I'm not thinking about the effects or like the, like, wow, look at that set or something.

I just want to like, I just want to forget that I'm watching something. Yeah. That's all I want. That's the point. That's the suspension of disbelief. Okay, I have one more White Lotus question. I think a lot of people would love to know how to think sparked with you and Leo. Because you guys didn't have many scenes together.

So how did you notice him or he noticed you? When did you lock eyes? Whatever you're willing to share. So I was there. Leo's character doesn't come in until episode three, I think. So I was there before him for a bit. And when he got there, I saw him in like the little area where we would have lunch and I gave, I gave him my number because I was like, well, you know, you're new here. I totally know how it is to show up late to something. It sucks. It's like everyone's been at camp without you and they already made friends and it's just can be, it can be like a very, at least for me, whenever that's happened to me, I've found that to be sort of quite vulnerable. And so I genuinely was just wanting to reach out as a friend and say, like, you know, I don't want you to be lonely or feel like you don't fit in.

I didn't even say that to him. But that was the intention. And he never did anything with it. And then, of course, like, months later, whatever, when I was like, I gave you. He was like, I didn't know that you were interested in me. And I was like, I gave you my number. Like, how did you not know that? And you were like, I didn't think you meant that.

I didn't think you actually were giving me your number because you wanted to be friends with me. I was like, why? else. What? He's like, we're actors, Megan. We're actors. Yeah. That's cute.

No, but the truth is that it was just a very easy connection and we very quickly became really, really good buddies. It was, and we weren't ever on set at the same time, really apart for maybe like one night we were doing a dinner scene and those are the only times, I think, on White Lotus when everybody is in the same vicinity. And it's like, you know, everyone has. That's his five-star hotel in Italy, but they're eating at the hotel. So other than that, we didn't really, you know, we weren't in any stuff together or anything.

So we just kind of became friends, and that was sort of, yeah, how it happened. That's sweet. Well, he seems lovely. I've seen him more in one day as I told you. Oh, yeah. And my God, dream boat. Yeah, he's the best. Okay.

I thought you should give him her a number. Well, he wouldn't believe me anyway. Yeah. It's true. You wouldn't. But I'll tell him after this. He's in the other room and I'm going to tell him and he's going to blush. He does blush, doesn't he?

He's very fair. From one handsome man to another. Yeah. Okay. So Sirens. So Sirens is really like is a big, it feels like a big moment. And then, you know, we were on set together when you were nominated for an Emmy for for that.

God, that's huge. Yeah. So, you know, it's definitely a moment. It wasn't your first Emmy nomination, as you constantly reminded me. But, no, it's not true. Not true at all for our listeners who don't appreciate comedy. Yeah, no, but it's a huge moment. I mean, it's like it's, it's starring huge stars, like,

Julianne Moore and Kevin Bacon. You and Millie Alcock are, I think, I mean, you're the, you're the sort of the beating, uh, tragicomic heart of, of the whole piece, you know, and it's, and it's really a journey that I think it demands a kind of chemistry and capacity with these two female leads. And I guess I'm, I'm really curious, like we didn't really talk about, you know, when you actually know somebody, you don't ask them questions like they're on a podcast, like you're doing a, like you're doing a piece on them. I remember bits and pieces, but, but so just, just tell us like we know nothing. What, what was the casting process? Like, when did you first meet Millie? Did you, you know, when you read it, was it like, did you possibly want the other role? Or was it, you know, I'm just really

curious because you two work so well together. I was reminded rewatching some of it. Um, in prep and I was just like, damn, it's really enjoyable to watch you too. Like the whole thing when it's you two on camera and, you know, your sisters, like, it just, it just works. So, well. Well, Millie is just a live wire of an actor. She just is always really looking at you and taking in what is in front of her in a way that I've found to be incredibly.

and really honestly moving because she's she's she's not someone who has any preconceived notion about what where she wants the scene to go or what she wants the scene to look like that you really just feel kind of resonated with me you really you really just really just milly you know and the thing about being an Emmy nominated actor tell me tell me tell me I want to know No, so honestly, one of the most enjoy, you know, the parts of filming sirens that I enjoyed the most was working with Millie because of that. She's just such an amazing spirit.

You guys are both so funny and so sad, but in very different ways. I'm not even sure how to distinguish what those ways are, but you both have it, but it's not the same. It's really interesting because she's actually such a little punk in real life. Like, she's probably way more of a devon, you know, And so for her to play this sort of like uptight type A character.

Right. And with as much comedic sensibility as she did, like I was so impressed. I don't think that I would have been able to do that, you know? Like I think and she's like got, she's just like an artist. Like she's, you know, got these amazing tattoos and she's just like very laid back. And like, I was just so impressed with the way that she was able to inhabit the space of Simone.

The way alone that she clutches her phone, I think, is very funny. It's so funny. Like, I don't know that it's, you know, I'm sure nothing conscious is happening there. But the way she clutched that pink phone, I was just like, why is it cracking me up? Why? Yeah. I know. But also, like, Molly Smith Metzler, who's, you know, created the show, that's so much of, of it.

was in the writing. So to go back to your original question, I read the pilot and I was obsessed with it. But nobody wanted me to do it. And they had offered it to like a couple of other people. And my team was like pitching me. And they were like, no. No.

Because it wasn't a role that I had done before. And so I think some people were thinking, like they just couldn't picture it, which was part of why it was so meaningful to me to go on that journey. Because Devin, to me, felt like a character that I was actually closer to in terms of like energy and spirit

than a lot of other things that people had seen me do. Right. So that's why I was kind of like, I really, I want to, I want to show people that this isn't something that is not in my wheelhouse. You know, this, this like alcoholic, sex addict degenerate.

No. No, it's funny you said wheelhouse because, actually the line. when she's like, you're the second guy I've had sex with on a boat today. Yeah, I know. Yeah, but the lines are so good. I read the pilot and I was like,

I have to say this stuff. I really couldn't wait to say some of the things that Molly had written. And then the interesting part was that we all had kind of signed on to do the show, having only read the first two episodes, I think. Or maybe we had gotten the third.

But, like, episodes four and five, We were in the middle of shooting and hadn't, we had no idea how the show was going to end. Like when I signed on to do Sirens, I thought it was a show about a cult. Oh, wow. You know, which is like so interesting because it sort of just unfolded obviously

in a much different way. Why do I, maybe this is, I'm totally off. Why did I or do I think it was based on a play? Is it not? It is based on a play called Element O.P. Yeah. So you didn't ever think to read that.

That Molly wrote. Well, makes you think I didn't read it. Well, no. No, no. Well, no, it ends quite differently. Oh, it does. Okay. Yeah, yeah.

Apparently I haven't read it. It's loosely based off of, yeah, of the play that Molly wrote. But it's also, you know, it's sort of also loosely based on an experience that Molly had when she was a young woman who was working out in Martha's Vineyard. So I think ultimately where she ended up landing it. And like the scene at the very end with Julianne, who I'm obviously just madly in love with and had been before I met her. Yeah. I thought that was such a beautiful scene between two women who were like deeply misunderstood

by each other, but maybe less so than they actually thought. Um, and I just thought Molly's sensibility and to sort of like leave it on that note, I thought was really poignant. That series definitely like doesn't end the way I think most people were expecting. Like Julianne Moore, I've never seen. seen a female character like Julianne's where you're so sure she's the villain and then she's not, but she's complicated. And then Millie's arc is crazy. Yeah, it's an incredible series. And I remember when I watched it, I kept thinking, like, I've never seen women. I've never seen these like archetypal

women before. It was really refreshing. Yeah. When we were doing press, she told this story and I actually thought it was amazing. Her daughter, whose teenager came home from school, or she's like 12, I think, or 11 or 9 or 10. Anyways, somewhere in that one. And she was doing a project on Sirens and she didn't, she was like, we don't, you know, she brought it home and asked Molly about it. And Molly was kind of like, oh, we actually don't. What we know about Sirens is that they're just these like temptresses who like, you know, murder sailors, but we don't know why.

And nobody knows why, you know, what's their backstory and why are they that way? And so that kind of got her thinking. And I think that was part of her sort of folding that mythology. into the show, which I thought was like a really cool perspective. There's this moment in the final episode where Millie's character is apologizing to you for all the things she said to Devin the night before. And it's like a very, starts as a very heartfelt apology. And then Devin goes, well, you're a bitch.

So the sisterly dynamic between you two is. so good. There's so many moments like that. And then I'm sure are it's, it's a lot of the, it is the writing. But the way that you two play it off is also so incredible. And I was curious where you pulled from for that sisterly dynamic. My best friend since I was 11 are twin sisters. Their names are Jen and Kara. And I have said this before and it is true. I, I learned that dynamic from watching them fight with each other. Yeah, that's good. In like this sort of like amazing way.

Like, because I have one older brother and he's four years older than me. So I was always the baby sister. We never really argued. He was always very protective. Like it just, we didn't have that kind of sibling relationship that you see on TV all the time. And so, yeah, I really, Jen and Kara were totally where I sort of learned how to sort of mimic that, like, beautiful thing of, like, it really is the safest space ever.

And you can say, whatever. The worst thing. And it's like, you know. These two sisters know what's up. Yeah. They both have sisters. Yeah, they were really the, that was so good. So I don't, yeah, I don't know if I would have been able to inhabit that as well.

If I hadn't had so much exposure to it from there. I'm curious, does Molly have sisters? Uh, she does have a sister? Stick around. We'll be right back. Do you ever find yourself scrolling through headlines, especially health headlines, and just thinking that can't be true? Well, I certainly do. 2025 brought us some ridiculous far-fetched health claims and some especially terrifying changes in public health. What's in store for us in 26?

I'm Chelsea Clinton, and we're back with season two of my podcast. can't be true. Follow along and catch up on season one wherever you get your podcasts. All right. Let's move on to what, you know, everybody's here for. It's so funny because nobody's seeing it yet. Is what you're eating for dessert? Yes. Yeah. What am I eating now? His third course. Yeah. You deserve each other. Yeah, you deserve each other. Yeah, you deserve each other. Oh, yes. You guys, let's talk about how funny Penn is. Tell us. You took the segue

right out of my mouth. I was truly, truly like, really impressed by your ability to sort of like subtly weave these comedic, but also really grounded moments into your performance

because, of course, I've never worked with you before and I'm a fan of your work and I've watched you you know, since I was a teenager, basically. And so it was very cool for me to see you sort of inhabit that space and in such a sort of like with what felt like

very much an ease and precision that I just really enjoyed watching it and I think people are going to love love that too. I mean do you feel like do you feel like you've properly

had the space to do that and do you feel like you did that? Yeah. I definitely look like I had the space. to do it and I and I have no idea I more than something I can't remember the last time I was like purely from a what's the word I'm looking for from a practical standpoint I'm like I really want to see this thing because I just cannot tell what the hell was going on really you know what I mean like

yeah it happens so fast it did happen very fast I mean I signed on right before we had to go I was I was I was actually mostly consumed with losing enough weight so that it just made sense for how maniacal this guy was supposed to be about his body. You know what I mean? Like the way he's written on the page is truly, like I should have had a shredded eight pack. I should have had a Marvel body. And I had like a real life good body. You know what I'm saying?

There's a difference. No, there is a difference. And I remember just being like, that's just, that's kind of was my, I'd never had to lose weight and like get kind of writ for a role. So I was just like, of all things of fucking comedy, of course. But I was just focused on that. And, like, and of course I was thinking a lot about the, you know, I was thinking, because the premise, for those who haven't seen it, which I suppose at this point will be everybody.

The premise is like, it's a tough one to make work. And so it was just really important to me, like, how are we going to make the first, like, 15 pages work so that the rest of it is smooth sailing, you know? It's like, why do these two people get together? why are they so insanely crazy competitive and like won't give up this insane game which is the engine of the whole comedic device the whole story you know it's like and my whole thing was like if this doesn't make enough emotional sense no one's going to want to watch past that and so you know the first step was knowing you and your work i didn't know you and your work and i and i uh uh i honestly didn't have to Yeah, still don't. It's really like, Magan Fahy.

The star of the bold face, bold face type font. And checks notes in siren. In white oleander. No, I was, I didn't have to watch hardly any of what you had done because I was like, oh, she's, I'm telling you. I mean, I feel like the first two scenes of sirens was,

was the first thing I watched in. And I was like, oh, she's really funny. You know, I don't even remember exactly what you're having to do there. But I wasn't really concerned. And sweaty across the long driveway. Probably that. That's right. Yeah.

For hours. And then your stuff on the boat, too, it's just like you deliver. Like even, you know, those lines like you say something along, what is it? It's like, well, Mike or somebody, Paul, you're going to have to give me something to put in my mouth, which can be a tough line to deliver with a lot of layers. It's like, when you delivered that line, I was like, okay, I don't have any concerns about her ability to do this thing where we're considering doing this through this romantic comedy, you know?

You are so funny. Was your, was your, let's get back to you. No. No. Stop. I'm trying to think. you haven't done like an out-and-out comedy.

No. I mean, I did a fair amount of comedy on the bold type, but like I really wanted to do a rom-com. And you really didn't. And I love that that is where we both were coming from. Like, we would be on set and he'd be like, I don't know about this. And I'd be like, yeah, this is what I was talking about. And he'd be like, oh, I don't know.

I had the privilege of being on set for a little bit and I watched you guys and I think I've shared this once before in the podcast but I haven't said it to you Megan. Obviously I got to watch the directors sort of in Video Village like watching you guys perform and it was really sweet because at least for the few days that I was on set the directors were always beaming and smiling and like grabbing each other's arms like they were just so happy with the performances that you were both giving. I never not saw them do that like they always had a really positive and like excited like it. it's working was sort of the reaction. And it was. Like you guys were, I felt like the chemistry was really there. And a rom-com lives or dies on that. So just giving me your flowers.

There's no question there. Thanks, now, though. That's so sweet. Mark and Abby, the directors. Ah, yes. Let's get to it. But. Yeah.

Say what you want about Mark and Abby. Well, no, I was just going to say that they, they were actually so supportive that I sometimes was like, well, surely some of this isn't working, right? Like, give me something to, give me something to hang on to, like, don't do that part. Because then I, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, they, like, that's where I, um, I also. You didn't trust it.

It was too positive. It was so positive that, that, no, I actually was trusting it. I, I, it was a relief to not do something that was at all heavy. It was so much fun the entire time. I mean, it had some, some craziness in my end because my wife was in her last month of twin pregnancy. And it was so intense to not be home more to support her. So actually all the extremity was just purely there.

All the intensity of like, you know, like the stakes. But on set, you know, it was like so light. And I cannot recall the last time it had been that way. It was so light and fun. And yeah, it was hard to trust that. And then we had people like, the entire supporting cast was just comedians. And so everybody was just bidding all the time. Everybody was just bit after bit.

There wasn't, I mean, Megan, correct me if I'm wrong. There wasn't a single take that was the same. Every take was just riffs. Well, especially when Justin Long was on set. Justin Longwinded. She is like the riffiest riffer of all times that we were pissing ourselves. He's so funny. So good.

There was one scene in particular where he's making a speech at what is like a rehearsal dinner for our engagement or whatever. And he, I think he talked. I think they just were rolling. And nobody wanted to cut him off because he was just so. funny, but it was. It was like minutes upon minutes of him. Nothing. He actually did not ever say what was scripted. He didn't. Wow.

It was. It was genuinely so impressive to see him be able to sustain that kind of improv that was good. Yeah. You know, like it really didn't. There was no kind of like, all right, well, this has gone on for too long now and he really needs to. No. Like it was just good material. And just constant. And so this is. is the thing where my, one of the reasons I was so unsure is because he's the only other person I have scenes with. It's like you and him. He's like my friend. You know, in every scene we're doing, like, I can't not do that with him. He's doing that. And sometimes, sometimes, you know, he would do it so much. It's like, well, the scene's going somewhere else. So we either stop. What are we even talking about

now? Yeah. So basically, I'm just doing that with him the entire time. And I'm like, that's, look, I enjoy comedy in life. I enjoy humor and I love to riff whatever, but it's not ever what I've had the space to do as an actor. And so I really... You were trying to keep the train on the tracks. Well, I was trying to keep the train on the tracks, which sometimes felt like, well, I have to go with him because they're not saying cut. And so it just became this thing where like, I was like, I don't even know... I don't know what I'm doing. If this is... Wow. Yeah. But then again, I kept on checking in with Mark and Abby being like, you're getting what you need. And they're like, oh yeah, yeah, it'll cut together. And I was like, oh, okay.

Yeah, I really do trust that. I feel like people who are more well-versed in, like, true comedy can watch something like that and let something exist in a riffy space and be picking out the things that they know they can keep. Like, it's where is that's probably not how you and I would approach most things off the bat, which is what was so fun about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there's lots of girls in the store. Yeah. Teeth.

Yeah. Teeth and boxes. The movie, one thing that is out that people, some people are aware of is you guys had like a little feud on social media. I believe it's like the first kind of thing that you guys collaborated on on the first day of shooting, at least Penn's first day. And it was really interesting because I was following the comments really closely. And, you know, we talked about like the three of us talked about it a lot.

And we talked about Penn being a jerk. Like he was supposed to be a jerk off the bat. Like he gets your name wrong and it's like passive aggressive. And what was amazing was like the comments were so supportive of pen. And some of them were like dissing you. And we were dying. And I was reading a lot of these with the producer, Anthony. We were like dying.

We're like, how is this happening? Like there's just so much. I'm not trying to make it dark, but there is so much sexism in the world that it just like always comes through. There's like no way to stop it. But my favorite comment was. So he in the video, in the first video, he says Megan Fai. He says your name wrong on purpose. And there's a comment.

I have a screenshot of it. I sent this to Anthony. We were dying. It's like, yeah, why is that even her name anyway? One of them said, is it not pronounced Fahy?

And then someone else comments, it is, LOL. And then a third person says, the Irish pronunciation is Vahy. It's just like, just like everyone there for Penta. I'm curious,

Megan, what was going through your head? As some of the comments started to like, just a few were like turning on you even though you weren't doing anything wrong. I'm pretty sure Megan was not. Just to be fair, I think Megan was not thinking about it at all. I really wasn't.

I'm not on TikTok. When Penn pitched this to me, I was like, I don't feel like doing that. No, I'm kidding. I actually, no, no, no, no. No, genuinely, I thought it was a really interesting, fun idea, but I'm so not on the internet in that way that I wasn't really sure how I could help. And then I do think that actually my lack of involvement ended up sort of being the thing that, like, didn't help. and I do apologize for that

because I feel like I should have really been like fully it's not that I didn't want to be a part of it I just didn't really know how it's like you're so good at that stuff and it really was like a really unique idea and I just feel like I got overwhelmed

and then didn't know how to participate so I didn't read any of the comments but fuck everybody who said shit about me yeah that's the response we need policy that's the sound like we're starting episode with that part but also your your little comeback video the pen bagley timu pedro pascal was great by the way and then wrote that line timu's they would have you did you said team move i've been waiting that line she's been waiting to say pen i need a mouth okay that i didn't know what timu was yes and pen had to explain what team who was

but pen approved it pen pen pen i definitely heard i could go and insulting him oh i wanted to go really far. He did. He had worse insults and I was like, no, they're going to kill Megan if she says this stuff. I know. It felt very like, I remember when you first talked to me about it and you were like, listen, I give you full permission like to be like really cut throat like and you had come up with some ideas of like things that I could say that would be mean. And it was really, really funny. But I felt like, oh my God, I'm going to get murdered by every woman on the internet. Yeah, if I say this. Yeah.

Yeah. The right instinct. Yeah. It is a dangerous game also because there is just, people just run with things on the internet. So I remember, I had no idea it was happening. No, I warned you because I was like, I knew and it didn't even totally land. I mean, so it's a dangerous game to play because people, yeah, people just are watching

half of something or like a few seconds and then running with it and coming up with. Well, we had a version. I mean, you know, so now that and I were brainstorming this, we had version. where we were like, the pull point is that it really, I think our initial pitch was like for 24 to 48 hours, it should really be convincing. And while being convincing, it should get as bad as it can while not resulting in me being canceled.

You know? That is great. I mean, that is just, that is just, and so to be fair. No, no, no, no, no. But that was, but we were just like, and I mean, look, I was. But we sat together.

we did it together in person. We were like on a van. I know, but imagining that you can control any thing around the internet. But that's why ultimately the version. Yeah. Yeah. I would also say, I just want to be clear,

the version that I think ended up happening was like kind of like. Yeah, it was the light version of that because I think it would have required a number of like, yeah, we just would have had to be really on it and it would have had to be a bit more, we didn't have time. You know, it would have had to be like seriously planned.

And Megan would have had to participate. which she famously didn't, you know. But there is, there was one, there was one idea that I really thought was funny and I'm wondering if you're still doing anything with it or not. Yes. So we always go, we make a hard left turn right at the end. It's great. It's always a good segue.

It works. Let's see if you can keep it up, you know. Okay. If you could go back to 12 year old, Megan, what would you say or do, if anything? I would say, you know, that, that nervous feeling that you get and you get, your tummy, not before you perform, but when you get that about people and things, spend some time with that because that's actually going to be the thing that guides you through that you really can trust and don't, don't bury it. I buried that feeling like I for so long and I'm now

digging, digging it out from under the dirt. And I'm like letting it, you know, do what it was put there to do instead of being avoidant and saying like, I'm going to pretend like I don't feel this thing because I don't want to deal with it or whatever. That's definitely what I would say. That's really good one. I love that advice, Megan. Yeah. Specific too. Usually we get like, it's going to be okay.

Yeah. And I don't want to mock that because really that's actually a lot of 12 people here. I just think for me, like, my anxiety as a kid was, like, such a physical manifestation that it feels really easy to name it in that, in that capacity. And that's still how I feel anxiety as an adult. It's like very in my body in this particular way. And so I think for a while, I think recognizing that as being intuition now that I have the tools to kind of separate rational and irrational thoughts as a semi-adult. And after being in therapy for a really long time, I feel like, you know, intuition is something that we all, it's a gift to have. And it really can be like a guide, like a spirit guide, but it's in your body, you know? And I think like we were sort of conditioned out of it or as a kid we're not given the tools to learn about it in a way that makes it feel like a friend and not something to be afraid of. And so when I think about myself as a kid and now and how I take that with me now, it's like, yeah, I think the earlier you could learn that, it could only be good.

It's never too late, but I think like imagine if I had that for 20 more years or something. Like it's just, yeah. Can you imagine if one of the like primary educational sort of like directives for middle schools was cultivating the faculty of intuition in our growing, in our burgeoning youth. Can you imagine? Imagine. Like that would be, because I know for me at 12, it was like, shut that down. Shut it down. What is that? Shut it down. A hundred percent. You know, wouldn't, wouldn't, wouldn't even be able to name it for another 15 years. Yes, precisely. Precisely. There's nothing in our society that supports respecting and cultivating.

a relationship with your intuition. And there should be because it's like, it really is from like another world. Yeah. We get gifted and it's like, you know, it's so crazy how shunned it is, I think, for so many people. You can see Megan Fahey in the upcoming film, you deserve each other out sometime in 2026, fingers crossed.

You can also follow her. her online at Megan Fahey. Pod Fresh is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navacavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time, because guess what? You can listen completely ad-free. Plus, you'll unlock exclusive bonus content, like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film Into the Wild had on him.

The conversation was so moving, and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to Lemonada Premium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's Lemonada Premium.com. Don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to Podfreshed ad-free on Amazon Music with your Prime Membership. Okay, that's all. Bye. You can also follow her online at Megan Fahey. Megan with two ends. And a G and an age.

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I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of The Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co-host and Happiness Guinea Pig is my sister, Elizabeth Kraft. That's me, Elizabeth Craft. a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Rubin from Lemonada Media.