Podcrushed - Michelle Buteau

Episode Date: April 16, 2025

Michelle Buteau -- the actor and comedian you know from Babes, A Buteau-ful Mind, and Survival of the Thickest -- regales the hosts with stories about her adolescent crush ("he looked like a young Leonardo DiCaprio, but Puerto Rican"), her journey into standup comedy, and the incredible intuition that she taps into through her dreams. Follow Podcrushed on socials: Instagram TikTok X Come see us live at 92NY on April 21st in New York City! Tickets here: https://www.92ny.org/event/podcrushed And preorder our new book, Crushmore, here: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Crushmore/Nava-Kavelin/9781668077993 Look for the blue box at retailers everywhere or shop jlab.com and use code PODCRUSHED for 15% off your order today.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemmonada. My co-hosts are both former middle school teachers slash administrators. Thank you for your service, thoughts and prayers. We do not deserve you. You're walking angels on earth. There should be more federal funding for everything and everyone. And fuck the honor. You can quote me on that.

Fuck guns. Fuck them. All the way down. Protect teachers and children. Mother fuckers. Welcome to Podcrushed. We're hosts, I'm Penn. I'm Nava and I'm Sophie.

And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Sharding in our Catholic schoolgirl uniforms. Welcome to Pod Crush. I'm joined by my co-host, Sophie Ansari and I'm Ava Cavlin. Hello. That's right. Penn, I have a question for you. By way of the fans, by way of the crushies, everyone wants to know, what are you looking at when you look outside your window?

You're often, you know, can be caught. Just like this? Yeah. I forget that I'm on camera. And I look off into the horizon, the distant horizon, where I can see my future things, things that I want to accomplish, things that I want to do. You know, my mind can wander, and I can think about my own coming of age. And I think to myself sometimes even, you know, damn, I think I could write a book.

I think, could I? A book? And the answer is yes. Wow. Not only can I, but I am joined by my co-hosts. This sounds fake because of the way it's real. We have a book. We have a pod-crushed book that as of now, are we going to announce the title?

Can we say the title yet? Yeah. We can definitely say the title. You definitely can say the title. You want to say it on three? Hold on Zoom and that won't work. I'll say it. One, two, three, Crushmore.

Yeah. Crush more. Yeah. it's inspired by this podcast moves further it reaches further and possibly deeper we did uh i don't want to speak for my co-hosts and now co-authors but um i have found uh that it was i mean at times it was exhaustive because you've got to finish the book but starting was this beautiful opportunity and now that it's done, guys, I mean, you know, a little virtual high-five to each one of us. Not to pat ourselves in the back too much to say that it is good, it is whatever.

But we finished a book. That's something that I'm proud of for us. Yeah, it's a book of essays. We each authored several essays, and they follow different themes, like love, loss, coming of, age and there's stories from our adolescence that we've never told you guys before but also into our adulthood things maybe we've we've never talked about publicly on any platform and so hot tea yeah hot hot guys i've been having night sweats over some of the stuff i included in the book so buy it and then never tell anyone anything i wrote in there yeah yeah yeah no we can't

wait for you and it's authentic and we hope you love it yes very much It's out for presale now, but then it actually comes out October 7th at the end of this year. So we can't wait for you to have it in your hands, in your minds, in your hearts. And we have another thrilling announcement. Oh, will April stop? Just too much. Spring showers. If it was the first, you would think this was a joke.

No? Like, oh, the bounties keep descending from on high. How on earth will I sustain my... Um, we are going to have a live podcrushed event at the 92nd Street. Why? Uh, a lovely, lovely, lovely renowned venue in New York City. Um, I've actually spoken there a few times. This time, it is going to be with one of our favorite podcasters. Uh, Anna Martin is moderating. She'll be asking us close as though we are getting, as though we are getting, modern love. That's right. Yes, yes, yes, yes, I should have said. Anna Martin from modern love, New York Times, modern love. Um. You know, it'll be a night of storytelling, reflecting on the universal threads that connect our coming of age experiences, not just the three of us, but all seven billion of us. We would love to see you there in person if you can make it. It'll be on April 21st. So it's coming up very soon. There'll be tickets for sale and you can find those anywhere you'd find any of our links. So good luck. Finding them. All right, let's get on to today's guest.

We have today, Michelle Butteau, who is a stand-up comedian, podcaster, an actor you might know from films like Babes with a friend of the pod, Ilana Glazer. She's got a Netflix special right now, a beautoful mind, right? Because that's her name. I think she just says beautiful mind, but... Really? That's what I thought I heard her say. Is she really?

Because, I mean, it's beautiful... I know, it is her last name, but... It's a buttoful mind. She has another Netflix special. Welcome to Butopia. And she has a show. Survival of the Thickest, which is like a comedy drama

about a woman attempting to rebuild her life after a breakup. Super relatable. I know I've been there. Michelle was an incredibly fun hang. I know that you'll agree. Please stick around. And we will be right back.

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Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed, spelled try-n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. Hey, it's Lena Waith. Legacy Talk is my love letter to black storytellers. artists who've changed the game and paved the way for so many of us. This season, I'm sitting down with icons like Felicia Rashad, Loretta Vine, Ava Du René, and more. We're talking about their journeys, their creative process,

and the legacies they're building every single day. Come be a part of the conversation. Season two drops July 29th. Listen to Legacy Talk wherever you get your podcast, or watch us on YouTube. Michelle, I'm so excited to meet you. I'm genuinely a huge fan. I'm Nava.

I'm IDMDMDM. you. I emailed you. I've been stalking you. So really legitimately love you. Thank you. I love you guys too. We've never met. But look at all these kind faces. You guys look you hold a door open for people that you respect people. I like what's happening. Yeah. Yes, all true. Yes. We tend to start at 12. No, we don't tend to. We do. We always do. That's like our thing. When you think of 12 year old Michelle, who do you see? How does she see the world? What was her life like day to day? I was a it was weird

like my mind I was a late bloomer because I was the only child and spent a lot of time by myself and still played with Barbies and had this vivid imagination but my body like I've had this body since I was 12

so it was sort of like a freaky Friday like I woke up and I had hips and boobs and then I didn't understand what the male gaze was but I was like oh I don't like this unwanted attention and I looked a lot of lot when I say I looked older I looked a lot older like I would be shopping for school supplies

and people would ask me where to get them because they thought I worked there and I'm like I am also looking for the trapper keeper what are you talking about um one of my really good friends um who moved from I saw Korea to Jersey we were in in French class together her first day she thought I was a teacher I'm like are you insane like I am I am your age boo so who was I I don't, I was, I was figuring it out. I was really figuring it out, you know, and I got in trouble a lot because, you know, my mom would always tell me I was sticking my chest out. I'm like, I'm standing up straight.

I would get in trouble because men didn't know how to act. So it was a lot of like, hide your body. But I'm like, this is my body. So I don't know. When people ask that question, like, what would you tell your younger self? Like, I always actually go to 12 because that's when it all happened. And it really is a whole You can reclaim your time

But I do And I was like, I don't know I was kind of an old soul too Because I could like Just hang with my grandma and her friends all day And talk about everybody else's business And watch soap operas and do all that But now I feel

I don't know I feel like an old soul becomes a young spirit too Do I answer the question? No Yeah No, it definitely does. It definitely does. I'm curious, Michelle, what were your friendships like around 12? Oh, my, why, what have you heard?

Well, I'm the only child. So, you know, I call my friends, my chosen family, like I'm that bitch. And so I love hard. Like, I'm a ride or die, whether you want it or not. I have forced people into friendship. How do you do that? You're like a straight cat. You just keep showing up.

You're like, I'm here. I'm here for you. But I think a lot of people want to be loved. They just don't know how to ask for it. And that's why I'm here. But it's so funny. In my show, I have this character, Khalil, that is written after one of my best friends, Rashim, that I met in the seventh grade. I've known him since I was 12.

He's the brother I've always wanted. And we take care of each other and look out for each other like that. and so all my friends really felt like family and that's why by the time I was in high school and I had like a really good friend in high school you know you call everybody your best friend the fact that she slept with my boyfriend at the time really set me up for the rest of my life yeah in terms of trust and intimacy and you know trusting your gut and looking for signs and, you know, being open, you know, to having hard conversations, you know, something that I used to avoid, but, you know, I've been in enough therapy now.

I'm like, do we have enough time to talk about it? Because, you know, I like to, what I really like to do, especially on set, is if someone's having a problem, I will book like an IV drip so we both can't go anywhere. Oh, my gosh, sorry. Wow. So we're getting nourished as we are also, you know, getting nourished. You know, we're getting healed in more than one way. So, yeah, I'm out here.

I just told my hair and makeup team this morning, I'm like, in my 50s, my job is to figure out how to work and be around people who aren't nice. I'm still figuring it out. Are you in your 50s? No, not yet. But I will be. No, I'm 47, but I will be. Okay, okay, okay.

Okay, you're approaching. You look amazing. Yeah. Thank you. Black is so crackish. I play a 38-year-old those all lies. It is so hard to cast a black show.

I'm like, she's too young. And the casting director is like, she's 62. I was like, she's 62? I was going to say, it was amazing watching your show and you saying you're 38. I'm like, maybe one of the few people who is playing so much younger in a show. I feel like that the opposite. is what usually happens. Like, you know, you turn 30 and you end up being someone's mom or, yeah.

I know. Thank you. But I actually, I had one more question and then I'll leave it to you guys about, because you mentioned how this experience, really unfortunate experience with your best friend and your boyfriend set you up for a lot of things. Trust, intimacy. You found out about the situation with your boyfriend and your best friend. through a dream. You had a dream that they were having this affair. And you called it divine

intuition, which I thought was incredible. And I'm wondering, I mean, you can go into that story if you want, or my question actually is, have you had other notable moments where you've had this like divine intuition? Yeah. And I, and I listen to it way more now. Um, clearly I can pick winners. My college boyfriend, I found out, didn't know how to read. And I had, had a dream we were three years in i think i had a dream that he um didn't graduate high school and he was crying and when i called him the next day he started crying and he was like i haven't but i like there was so many signs you know and i didn't but he was so good at it and that's the thing people i don't even know if they know they're lying they're just really playing this character

that they want to be you know they really see themselves as this person is it's a real fake it to you make it. But in a way that feels like, you know, I'm in bed with the psycho. It feels like the call is coming from inside the house. And so with my high school boyfriend and my best friend at the time, I didn't, they never got along, but they both get along with everybody. They never wanted to hang out with each other. And there was something that happened. Like, they shared a cigarette one time in a way where I was like, that looked.

looks a little too familiar for people that don't get along. But I just, like, shoved it down because people will make you feel cuckoo-c-c-choo. And I had a dream that they were dancing by a Christmas tree in all red. I don't know. I don't know. It is, like, a real, like, it's such a weird balance of, like, don't be paranoid and enjoy life, but also ask questions. You know what I mean? If you're feeling something, it could be for.

a reason. And so I've really just been like, don't, I'm not listening to anybody. I'm following my own intuition. It's really served me, especially when I'm on stage. It's like a beautiful thing now that happens where I feel like I could see everyone's inner child. And so, you know, it's nice to do crowdwork that way because I'm like, you look like, you know, it was a lot of ramen and you're by yourself at home. And it was like daytime TV and it was like, you know, like you can like tell when people have been by themselves a lot when they were little because hello I was. But yeah, it's, what was the question? These are such good questions.

I feel like it's a boozy brunch. It was about your divine intuition. We only met for brunch, but now it's three hours in with tips to him like to karaoke, the dog can walk himself. What are these questions? Wait, Michelle, I wanted to say, I wanted to say something about this. What you were saying about listening to intrusion, because I had an experience where like sort of like, don't be hearing it.

I had an experience where there was someone I was getting to know and I would like frequently have panic attacks and I had never had panic attacks around anyone else and I thought it was because I liked them so much and I and then I finally like a year in started asking this person questions there was just like so much harmful behavior and he answered all the questions honestly but I was like oh this is why I kept having so many panic attacks because my body was like telling me that I was in danger around this person and I interpreted I like him so much that I'm having a panic attack that I might lose you know and it was like oh no I've never had a panic attack around any other person

why was it that like frequently I would have panic attacks when I would be like on my way to meet him and yes it was just like really misinterpreting that my body was telling me that I was in danger you don't know if it's excitement or if your body is like you know you're in danger girl you know like Molly you and danger girl like you don't know yeah that's such a that's such a good tip just ask questions it's so simple but like my follow-up question to you was going to be like, well, how do you know, like, how do you, if you're trying to really follow your, your intuition, how do you know the difference between intuition and paranoia? But, yeah, that's such a good tip.

It's just like, because they're not just next to a Christmas tree, but they're dancing and they're wearing red. It's the scarlet letter. Yeah. But yeah, asking questions is such a good, just a good tip. It's true. Yeah. So I do want to hear about that.

I want to cut us short because we love to talk. talk about intuition here we go on and on i mean no i'm not serious we do we actually um these these two have a lot of have a lot of i've actually had some dreams too but anyway um what that i didn't realize that uh like what you just described that's that's painful i mean that's you know i don't need to read i'm assuming there's you've told the story before i don't know that you want to reopen any wounds but i mean for them to have been friends for for you all to have been friends and for it to have been you know the way you told the story in a podcast i heard it sounded maybe more like um like it was something that happened and then and then you knew immediately

and then it was like you know the friendships and relationships were ruined but it sounds like it was going on for some time and that's a that's a that's a specific kind of betrayal that i would as you've said i mean i'm understanding better now how you said that it marked you at that at that age you know one of the first important relationships it's like or i guess two Yeah. No, I was, I I go all in because I come from a family that goes all in. So we took care of her family. Like when they didn't have a car, they borrowed our car.

Money, coats, whatever you need, we got you. His family also we took care of in a lot of different ways because that's what my family does, you know? my uncle's the Archbishop of Jamaica and when you're religious in a third world country you know, sure it's about the Bible and stuff but the poorer you are, the more religious you are and like the more you give and volunteer and help

and so that's how I was raised and that's what I did and that's why it's really hard for me sometimes not to go all in because I'm like I am here for you like I have your back and yeah I mean he was from Afghanistan and I was going to the mosque

like I was going to convert for him like I was out that's like I want to I don't want to sidetrack this story I really want to hear more about that but anyway go go on well yeah I mean I felt like

I was like very religious and like should have had more conversations with people about sex and sexuality and consequences and all that stuff, all I knew was don't have sex to you're married.

So I'm like, oh, I love him. And we can't be together unless I'm Muslim. And it's a beautiful religion. And his family was beautiful. And I was like, I'm not mad. Let's go. Like, my mom was like, are you sure? Should we talk about this?

Did you do your homework? Oh, so you really have been brought up to your mom. Yeah, she was scared for me because she was like, most people get tattoos. Like, what are we doing? I'm like, all past sleep to go. God, sis, let's go. Like, I was fully in. So I had, like, really integrated, like, all of our families together.

And so when this happened. And then also, this is a fun part of it. And this is very, like, central jersey. Her mom was racist, not even low-key, like, races. Like, this girl was Italian. She liked Puerto Rican and Black guys. And one day her mom came over. to my house and was yelling at me.

And she's like, you made my daughter an N-word lover. How dare you? Wow. And like, you know, when people ask me questions, like, why do you think it's important to make a show that's inclusive or how do you find joy? It's like, man, when you are a little light-skinned thick-thums in Central Jersey going to an all-white school, you learn how to code switch and assimilate. and all that

and learn how to take care of white people in white spaces by the time like you're in third grade and like also don't forget your lunchbox when you come home. So it's like, yeah, I was out here. I was like doing it. Like I apologized to her and was like,

what do you mean? Like trying to have an actual conversation with an older woman who's a racist because that's what I was taught to do. Respect my elders. So I mean, I'm glad this all happened because I have friends in their 40s that are just getting treated on for the first time

and I'm like, that you know of, by the way. And you got to live in it and get over it real quick. But it did, like I didn't trust people for a really long time. Like I had very peripheral friends and then just the friends I've known forever and all the time. I did watch everybody around my dates. I did keep it separate. Like I never brought the guys I liked around my friends.

or family. I didn't trust anybody in my 20s. I didn't date. I just had one-night stands because I'm like, what's the point? I'd rather be doing comedy. But that's also how I met my husband

out of a one-night stand. So I literally fucked my way to the right one, which is great. You know what I mean? It's like, what? So, you know, it worked out for me, but I, you know,

it was hard because I was only, like, I couldn't pick the times that I, like, could be vulnerable, But I was like, again, the instinct, like, well, I like this guy. He doesn't feel like he's going to kill him. I'll bring him home even though I don't know how to say his name. And I don't fully know where Holland is. How do you say his name?

Guys. Okay. I'll leave it to you. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. It's like lesson six with Rosetta Stone. I'm like, this is a lie. I'm going to call you boo. This is a lie. arguing with someone with a hard name is like you got to get over the argument real quick guys no you're not listening hey hey guys listen to me i'm like oh my god it took me a while we didn't argue for like the first five years because of protection

that's a good tip stick around we'll be right back all right so um let's just let's just real talk as they say for a second that's a little bit of aged thing to say now that that dates me doesn't it um but no real talk uh how important is your health to you you know on like a one to 10 and i don't mean the in the sense of vanity i mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well right you want to be less stressed you don't want it as sick when you have responsibilities um i know myself i'm a householder i have uh i have two children and two more on the way um a spouse a pet you know a job that sometimes has its demands So I really want to feel like when I'm not getting the sleep and I'm not getting nutrition, when my eating's down, I want to know that I'm, that I'm being held down some other way physically, you know?

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go to rosettastone.com slash podcrush and start learning today. Michelle, you obviously, you have a successful Netflix show. It's still in the top ten, survival of the thickest. And as we were doing research, I was really struck by, so I think it was adapted by a book of essays, and it makes sense that it really connects to your real life. So I was really struck by sort of, like, there are themes in the show that seem like plucked right out of even your

adolescence, like your love of fashion and, your desire to like uplift certain voices. And I just wanted to kind of like open the floor to you to share with us like some of the themes that we see in the show that you that you like culled from your own experiences. Yeah. Oh my goodness. What a lovely question. Yeah. So when I was writing this book Survival at the thickest, I like, you know, I was podcasting.

I was doing stand up. There was like so many stories that didn't fit into straight up stand up, but that were really fun to tell on a podcast. but I'm like this is there's just a bigger lesson here and when I put all these crazy stories together I'm like oh my God I've actually been through some shit

which is wild and when I was developing the show I'm like I really want to showcase my New York like I love that Seinfeld has a diner I love that that friend has a coffee shop but I grew up in my 20s

in New York City going to a drag bar and, you know, using a gender-neutral bathroom and, like, you know, just seeing people work three jobs for top surgery and just having conversations around, you know, their journey, their second act, a third act, whatever it was. And so I'm like, how come I haven't seen it and I can't wait to do it? So it's like, it's a real, like, you can't write this until you're on the other side, you know, I'm 47. I play a 38 year old who's single And I feel like 38 is such an age Especially for my female friends To make a decision

Whether it's the job they want Or don't want the relationship they want Or don't want, like whatever it is To have a child, whatever it is It's like 38 because you're approaching 40 And you're like, okay, mother nature of all the time I see you, I hear, I'm going to pick up that phone And so it's that, it's the inclusivity of that

But also like, I mean my character is stylist because it was such a beautiful parallel between comedy and having, you know, immigrant parents and explaining how this is a real job and such a New York job, too, where you could just be broke one day and, like, rich the next. And it really depends on you and the hustle and your creativity. And also, like, I just want to fly-ass clothes. And so I thought it was also, like, a beautiful job to showcase the discrepancy in, fashion, you know, the fat phobia, the

lack of choices, the all of it. And then, you know, and then this season we have Pepperman, who's a beautiful black trans woman, get married. And it's like, what does it look like for my trans friends trying to shop for their wedding outfit? And what are those safe places? And so fashion is such a beautiful platform to talk about all those things. And that's what I wanted to do, because I'm like,

you know like we're going to go through it it's not about whether we're going to go through it or not we're going to go through it but like can we make it fun and cute and aspirational and inspirational and like have good food and good sex listen to good music that's all I want and money I like money money is money is great security security yeah yeah did I answer the question you did I don't know I have six-year-old twins and a Dutch husband, so I'm so not used to finishing my thought. That's fair. I don't know.

I have twins on the way. Yeah. And we have two already. Yeah. Yeah, so I have a four-year-old. Do you have any words of wisdom? 16-year-old. And we have two twin identical boys on the way.

In fact, I just went to a scan this morning and saw it. like their faces. They look just like the others. The others. Oh, my God. First of all, congratulations. I mean, any healthy being is such a miracle, but Twins is like, it really is next level.

Like, how could this even happen? Like, it is, it's going to be very wild for you. I'm here for you if you have any questions. I know which things to buy, which things work, which things don't work. I think, like, also nighttime nanny, get that rest if you can. take it when you can

you know have somebody just come in and clean your count it's up yeah so my wife is a doula and so we're beyond connected to you know just like this massive sort of support postpartum I love it

so my body couldn't carry and we had a surrogate which is amazing shot to all the surrogates out there and surrogacy agencies what I ended up getting is a a doula for post.

Was that postdula? Postpartum doula. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, because that was also really important

for me to take care of myself and connect with them and not have to worry about everything being washed. And so I'm excited for you. Guys! There's so much. Yeah, right?

When you tell that story in your stand-up about what you call What do you call it the birth control story? Oh, did you watch? Thank you so much for watching it. Oh, of course, yeah. Yeah, we got to prepare.

I don't know. I don't want to ruin the punchline, but as a parent, the specific thing you have to do in order to move on, you know, I don't know, you can tell the story here, whatever, but it's, but I'm like, oh, that is so, the folding chair. Yeah.

The folding chair You got to tell this story now You have to tell this story It's so good I mean, yeah Definitely watch my special on Netflix A Beautiful Mind at Radio City Music Hall Because it's hilarious

But yeah, I tell a story that I call Barth and Chol about my son Otis Who had a bugger on his nose I couldn't get it out And that was really the moment Where I'm like, I might worry about you For the rest of your life now Like how can you not do this?

Like shoe laces, okay, But a booger, I'm like, you're supposed to be in there. You know what I mean? Like it's a buffet at Olive Garden. And so, like, he got so mad when I, you guys, just watch a special, but he got so mad when I got it for him, he ordered me to put it back in. Oh, my God. That's when I realized, like, okay, this is hard. Yeah.

In public. Where they, when they have, because especially like four and four, maybe it's three to five, maybe it's three to five. It may be any age in childhood, but there comes a point developmentally where actually you cannot expect them to be more reasonable than that. You know what I mean? You literally, you actually, you could try to discipline them out, whatever it is, but they're not, they're just, what's happening in their brain and body, they can't. So that, so when you, when he told that story, like, having to put the booger back in, it's like, yeah, that's real. You got to meet them where they're at. It's because we were also boarding a plane.

And so the people Are behind me are just like Put it back in this Can this bitch? I know like can this bitch get it together It's called Motherhood I'm like oh my God Here we are

But yeah I mean They will humble you in 2.2 I saw this video yesterday That was like It was like Audio was a baby screaming Their lungs out And it's like people outside of my house

Are questioning like What is she doing to them? What are they going on in there? And then she shows what's actually going on is like she's trying to tape an apple back together to like please her toddlers like I don't know like nothing's actually happening it's so crazy how that like when you pass a playground I'm like they're either being murdered or having the best time of their life and I'm like how I was never allowed to be that loud ever yeah I wonder if like the pendulum is

swinging because actually I was talking to a friend of mine who um she has two boys right now and she is really like one of the things she tries not to do at all is ever tell them to be quiet because she feels like she could never make a sound in the house and so I feel like the pendulum is just like swinging I know one of my realities was like you can't tell them no and I was like no I'm telling you know I'm telling everybody no okay it's a no you're adding here. Yeah, but I try to give myself grace because, you know, I did not know. I'd be like, I really didn't know once you become a parent, you become a therapist, a caregiver, a pediatrician, a bodyguard. I'm giving Kevin Costner and everybody's Whitney Houston at the playground around a pool.

No. Yeah. No. Like, it's so, and how could I, like, I'm always like, you've never done this before. so relax if you don't know what to do you know what to do you're like do you have any questions no pediatrician person i don't i don't i've never done this before you do you tell me what i should be asking i know it's i remember the moment i have a 17 month old daughter my first one and i remember the moment she like got into a phase of hitting she started just hitting me and my husband and i was like yeah oh my god we have to parent i did not realize what parenting was. Discipline. We have to get on the same page, me and him, about how we want to do it. And then we have to do it. And then we have to be consistent about it.

And like, you really get love into it. It's kind of, it's, it's merciful the way it happens because it's slow and you get to just like physically take care of them for a while. But then. I feel triggered. My son was really, my kids were both trying to beat me up while I was, well, I had a fitting. and my stylist told me this is what and she was like this is what I tell my son you're allowed to have feelings but you're not allowed to hurt me I was like that's nice but then I'm just like you're allowed to have feelings yeah because two of them coming at you is yeah yeah yeah no it's it's a wall at daycare you know it's that looks like my mom it's too much have you you know my experience at least with boys. And by the way, we're going to have four boys.

How crazy is that? It's giving, boom, bop, bo, boom, it's like a team of something. Yes.

Get the tambourines. Come on. But, what was I going to say? Sorry. No, no, no, no.

No, I am as tangential as they come. I cannot believe you're having twin boys. I know. I thought you knew because he said that earlier and I went, I didn't hear that it was boys. I just heard that you saw the faces, but I didn't hear that it was boys. No.

Have I? You hadn't told me it was boys. No. You're crazy. When would you have told me? I guess I went on vacation and there was. Yeah. Somehow we missed that.

Yes. Yes. You also have pregnancy brain. Yeah. Actually, no lie. It is the other, this morning, this morning, getting them ready to. for school, our window was open because the weather's getting nice

are here finally, and I heard a baby scream outside. Instinct was to get up and go to be having to. I know. I know. It's already feels like they're here. It is so much more than one. It's based to your DNA.

Yeah, it's like I have to hide when I smoke weed in public. I'm like, it's not legal. You know what I mean? It's like in my DNA. I'm like, oh, right. Yeah. I don't smoke weed Yeah, I know that also because you're special Yeah, anymore

I'm terrible at it Yeah, no, I am too, so anxious, cannot Cannot at all Oh my God Oh, we would be like two little crackheads It would not be fun For me having boys I've had to, you know, to me it's like

It seems sometimes I just see my little self You know, and it's not a secret thing First of all, my biological son He does look sometimes exactly like me but there's ways he acts like me so so you know at least i don't i don't know how i've heard that's not always the same when it's the opposite sex opposite gender but have you had insights raising yours where you're like oh yeah like i didn't i didn't i didn't get what i'm giving right now or i'm giving just what i got or i'm you know whether it's good bad anything in between

like all just inevitable insights that come about your childhood you know Oh my God. Yeah. I think we all, that's the whole reason why we have children, right? I mean, because they're an extension of ourselves. It's too good to stop here. And then also, let's try and do it like better than how it was done before. And thank God for therapy. Because I'm realizing like, wow, my mom was really in that generation where she had to ask permission to be in a room, to open a credit card, to do anything. And so that was. put upon me but it was also like but be independent and then I was like too independent and I'm like I can hold my own door and paint my own thing and then people are like what do you need me for I'm like good question so when I see that in my kids I'm like yeah be as independent and wild as possible but think of others as well they're six so it's like but don't sacrifice yourself you know what I mean but like I see it happening like my son Otis definitely has more of my

personality where he'll want the last slice of pizza but he'll just wait for someone to like offer it to him and then someone takes it and then he gets really sad and I'm like you can go get that and he's like but will anybody else want it and so he's already like thinking of everybody and he's like sacrificing his happiness I'm like

don't you dad turn into Viola Davis in every movie for a but like but also I can tell because I can also tell when they're anxious and I'm realizing I've had anxiety my whole life.

With Otis, he'll really have meltdowns during the day. And so I'm really mindful of, like, how to tell him to get over it or, like, let it pass or walk yourself in a corner, maybe grab your ears or breathe or put your hands up or touch your toe, whatever that is, give him little massages or, like, just something to hum. as opposed to him just like freaking out and being bad LOL as I told the story about his booker and then with Hazel

she's so good at like getting through the day doing her but then it really comes out at night where she's like I can't sleep I hear everything I see everything I want to color I want to draw can I clean the kitchen and I'm like I understand that too

I'm like let's go organize a draw and so we organize a lot of stuff because it makes her feel better yeah and productive and I'm like I understand that part of your brain too and so had I not like if I didn't know like then you don't know right

you just think your kids are being annoying and having a tantrum and won't go to bed but there's so much more behind and you know what and sometimes they don't want to go to bed I understand that too sometimes I do turn into my mom where I'm like no more iPad no more sugar

no more this no more that you know here are like some boundaries and do it. Do they listen now? They do the same now. They're like two little forest gums. I'm like, why are you running away? There are cars and strangers come back. You're like it's so funny.

I'm like, you don't know jokes. I do. I'm not. Let me decide what is funny. Trust me. Yeah, sometimes I do turn into my mom and my dad. But I think that I think it's okay for them to realize that I'm about the business. It's really hard to take me seriously though because

I have like a full face with freckles and nobody's taking this seriously. They're like, okay, mama, that was funny. But yeah, and it's also really nice to take my kids to Holland where my husband's from because that's the country that's just like really made for families. I've heard that.

Oh, I feel like a better parent. Wow. They can explore more, you know, and you feel sick. safe with their curiosity and people are nice to them and it's and things are cleaner and better and it's just it is interesting being in a place that's set up for families because it's like oh it's not as hard yeah Michelle I'm curious Sophie was mentioning like how she and her husband in this thing of like figuring out when the kid is slapping them like how do they parent

together. I'm curious how you and your husband, how you, I don't know if overcame or, like, sort of like there are obvious cultural differences and you have joked about them. I think some of like your funniest, some of the funniest parts of your stand-ups are when you get into that. But yeah, I'm curious how that's gone for you, like because it seems like there would be really significant cultural differences amongst you. Like, how do you, how have you learned to navigate that? We're still learning, girl. We're still learning. Like, for me, We weren't allowed to talk about sex or have questions. And for him, he just sort of, like, sort of figured it out because he was, like, the youngest and his parents were divorcing.

By the time he was, like, I don't know, I'm fifth grade or something. So he just really figured shit out for himself. But I'm just like, no, we're going to, I'm like, if you have a question about your body, come talk to me. We'll, you know, this is like your body. This is your temple. Let's talk about it. And he's like, should we? I'm like, we absolutely should.

But like, when it comes to, like, them skiing down a mountain with no lesson, he's like, they'll figure it out. I'm like, I don't know who told you that. But I feel like, he was like, I, you know, I grew up skiing in the Alps. I'm like, that's good for you. We're in Brooklyn. Like, we can't even get through like a bike. You know what I mean? Like, let's figure this out. And so, you know, when it comes to being physical and adventure, like, that's his thing. And I'm like, can we not? And for me, the biggest thing is like making sure that they feel comfortable enough to be like weird and like wild around us and ask us anything you know and also like that they enjoy their food that they don't feel like they have

to eat this to make us happy or to get something you know and for him like food is a big like you have to eat you have to finish your plate and I'm like they don't have to finish anything they don't have to finish a plate take what you need you know I want to set them up properly and like do the best I can to have a good relationship with food. Because my parents were like no American snacks. Don't eat it, don't eat it. And then I went to college and they were like, no sex, no

American snacks. I went to college and I was like a pretty thick ho. I was like buttered noodles and fruit roll-ups and dick. Let's talk about it. Quite the buffet says. It's getting golden Corral

not a sponsor Speaking of fruit roll-ups and Dick Are you giving more a cup because I love a segue Let's go

We do have classic questions We always ask About middle school One of them being like What were your experiences with your

first crush Like first love And first heart Ray I had a really big crush on a guy named Russell. He looked like

he looked like a young Leo DiCaprio but Puerto Rican. I don't know. Yeah. Was he Puerto Rican? I don't even know what he was, but it was, it was beautiful.

I have a crush on Russell based on this description. Yeah, I don't even know what nationality he was. It was just beautiful. He always had like those really big hoagies at his birthday party. And I was like, you're just so.

Do you guys know what hoagie? aren't. I'm so jerseys. Just really big disgusting sandwiches full of like diabetes and high class stral. I'm sure everybody I grew up with has gout. Just the more pink meat the better. But you know, I was

young and I was like, guy, he's so classy. And I wrote about him in my diary. I don't even remember what I wrote. But my mom ended up reading my diary. Oh no. And she was like, who is Russell? And I'm like, no one

yeah that was my first crush but I think everyone had a crush on him he was crushable yeah he sounds like we also like to ask people about an embarrassed like a standout embarrassing or awkward memory from those years

I went to a Catholic school and I really thought it was just going to be a fart no where were you I think it was I think I was in a religion class and it was like pretty

it was pretty first testament because I was like there was like no getting up yeah that's brutal no truly I I was

I was like Carrie from homeland with like ugly tears and I was like just silently weeping what a good reference how just yeah I was waiting for Brody to save me it was I yeah yep yep yep yep yeah my parents were

right the American food I think I had a sloppy Joe for lunch I've never had one before no that'll do it yeah it's like tricking head to see it's like don't do it because of the people do it you know yeah oh my gosh that's amazing did you have to change did you have to what happened um well this is when I figured out that I was like the only there was only like one size 13 and like for every uniform. And so I had to put on boy like boy pants. I had a like a plaid skirt and I had to wear boy pants. Michelle.

That's okay. I was I was gender bending even back then like a light skinned Tilda Swinton. That's so good. I don't know. I didn't expect that question. I didn't expect that answer. But here we are, guys. I feel very vulnerable.

That's perfect. I'm actually impressed that Stofi near the hour mark brought it back. Back to the beginning. I was just thinking to myself. I'm like, oh, we missed our classic questions. I guess we're just going to have to move on. Oh, you said me.

Perfectly. Found a way. Fruit roll up brought me back. Yeah. It is perfect. Oh, nice. I'm glad. And we'll be right back.

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It said the tools you need to survive won't be the ones you need to thrive. And I really felt that. Just, I mean, black joy, black art, yes. Female-led anything, yes. Queer people being able to live their truth openly, yes. And then also really motherhood because, you know, four miscarriages and five, years and thousands and thousands of dollars with IVF, you know, only to leave me down the road of surrogacy, bringing home two premature babies in the dead of winter. I was like, how do I enjoy

this? Because I have to keep them alive. And I was like, oh, I have to keep myself alive. And they're already here. And so let's get at it. And so that quote really gets me through. And I was like, this is what it is. Like, it's very divided right now. And that's why I'm leaning into the color of purple because I'm like red and blue needs to come together. So that's why the dress I'm wearing in my season two promo pick is purple. Yeah. I love that, Michelle. Yeah.

It's beautiful. I found the beginning of the special we've talked about, Beautiful Mind. I found the beginning so moving. First, like, it starts with, what I'm assuming is your child on the phone, which is so sweet. But then the introduction, like the first woman. to have her own comedy special at Radio City Music Hall was crazy. And then the curtains come up and then you're tearing up and there's a standing ovation. I found it honestly so moving.

And I was thinking, what is Michelle feeling right now? Like, how is she managing this moment and these emotions? And you have so many moments like that. I mean, like, it just keeps happening. And so I guess the question is like, how do you, what do you do? How do you try to stay present? How do you do that? How do you manage the feelings?

Yeah. I mean, being present is really like the biggest thing. Like enjoying, like enjoying the ride, you know? I didn't enjoy my wedding at all. I didn't know how to. I was like, why is this all about me? And then I was like dieting really hot. Like I was exercising and dieting.

And then like I had a potato and some tequila at my wedding and blacked it out. And I like missed most of it. Didn't even share the cake with my husband. But I'm like, that sucks. I'm like, that is such a lesson that will never happen again. The next time I work hard for something and I bring people together because, you know, I do believe I'm a community organizer and I'm just like, let's have fun and like get, you know, just make history and get it.

I'm like, enjoy it. Like, look at it. Feel it, you know. And so if like, especially that moment because you can like the breath from like, like everyone's energy from the curtain on your face. I'm like, oh, like I don't need to be. that is my high and it felt like I was like floating down the roller coaster of like love and I'm like this is

and I was also like oh my god don't cry someone's been drawing fucking eyeliner in your eye for two hours like it's gonna be it's gonna be a raccoon you know what I mean I actually have to say I was impressed because I noticed that you're you're I mean maybe it was a light cry but I was thinking to myself I'm like that's really impressive that she must have been

prepared for that because otherwise I would be seeing it run. You know, I was, I was thinking whoever had applied your eyeliner. Yeah, done great. It was waterproof. It was waterproof. And, like, I don't want to take anything away from that moment, but, you know, when we start making history that should have been done already, it's so bittersweet, you know, like Michael

Che being the first black correspondent, you know, a weekend update, like all these things. It's like, this should have been done. I don't know all is to say keep going like when people are just like why me why should I do it it's like why the fuck not just see

who cares okay so we're gonna boomerang right back to 12 year old Michelle it is our final question and you started to answer it right in the beginning which is if you could go back

to Michelle what would you say or do Yeah, I would say you're right where you need to be so do all those things like understand how hard it is and how evil people are understand how bad it is

so you can really appreciate how good it gets so I tell her to keep doing her just with thicker eyebrows why are we shaving her eye when Stefani let me talk to you real quick I need in my eyebrows.

Okay. Yeah, that's what I would tell that bitch. I also want to say that you say bitch more lovingly than anybody. I think I'm in. I love it. I love it. And that's why I love a lot of too because we were able to improv a whole ass scene just from using the word bitch. I'm like, you get it.

You got it. I love it. I love her. I love you. Thank you for coming out. Thank you, Michelle. Oh my God. I love you guys.

This is the brunch that will never happen because we're so busy, but this has been fantastic. Thank you, Michelle. Thank you, Michelle. So nice to meet you. You can watch Michelle Buto in season two of Survival of the Thickest on Netflix, and you can follow her online at Michelle Buto. Pod Crush is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navak. Evelyn and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari and our editing is done by Clips Agency.

Special thanks to the folks at Lamanada. And as always, you can listen to Pod Crush ad-free on Amazon music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye.