Podcrushed - Paul Wesley

Episode Date: September 10, 2025

Paul Wesley (Star Trek: Strange New Worlds, The Vampire Diaries, Tell Me A Story) joins the pod for an engaging convo about his journey from Marlboro Township, New Jersey to the silver screen. He shares memories from his time alongside co-stars like Ian Somerhalder and Nina Dobrev, his approach to playing the iconic Captain Kirk, and opens up about the anxiety he faced during his days as a struggling actor. He also reflects on his comedy aspirations and the important life lessons he's learned along the way.   Look for the blue box at retailers everywhere or shop jlab.com and use code PODCRUSHED for 15% off your order today.   Take the online quiz and introduce Ollie to your pet. Visit https://www.ollie.com/podcrushed for 60% off your first box of meals! #ToKnowThemIsToLoveThem    Cymbiotika is hosting their biggest giveaway ever this summer. Head to Cymbiotika.com/summersweepstakes to learn more.   Preorder our new book, Crushmore, here: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Crushmore/Penn-Badgley/9781668077993      Want more from Podcrushed? Follow our social channels here:   Insta: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedInsta TikTok: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedTikTok  X: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedTwitter   You can follow Penn, Sophie and Nava here:   Insta: https://www.instagram.com/pennbadgley/  https://www.instagram.com/scribbledbysophie/ https://www.instagram.com/nnnava/   Tik Tok: https://www.tiktok.com/@iampennbadgley  https://www.tiktok.com/@scribbledbysophie  https://www.tiktok.com/@nkavelinSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada I remember during my chemistry eat I totally forgot my line and I go, line, I don't know what. Like, I was like, line. Like, I've seen that. I've seen that on TV. And the showrunner guy was like, was like, gave me the line.

I was like, boom. I don't even know why I did that because I don't think I'd ever even seen anyone do that, but I think they were impressed that I had the, you know, professionalism via line. Anyway. Welcome to podcast. We're hosts. I'm Penn.

I'm Nava and I'm Sophie. And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Losing touch in high school and never reconnecting as adults. Hello and welcome to Podcrush. Yes, you have indeed caught us mid-laugh because me and my co-host, Sophie and Sari Navakavan, we are having such a good time. And we're here today to bring you into the fold like we're just a four-person click in middle school even, no less.

We're on theme. Sophie had a really lovely question for us today that kind of came from our guest who in his show, it was in a famous love triangle. I wanted to know what is your favorite cinematic love triangle. The first one that comes to mind is Leo DiCaprio, Billy Zane, and Kate Winslet

but that's not a triangle, right? It's not because that's just a straight line. That is a straight, fiery arrow. There is no Billy Zane. Although, guys, Billy Zane, what a smoke show. I feel like there's a small segment of social media who feels like Billy Zane was the bet

there is there are like funny ways that people talk about like she picks the unhoused guy like that's only good in your 20s but if he had like made it anyway it's oh Billy Zane I mean god

but okay but can you give a real answer is that your answer I can't think of one because love triangles made me feel so dark they made me they stirred up feeling

I was just like I was felt betrayed I couldn't handle a love triangle to be honest Like when Jasmine kissed Jafar, I was like, I was, I was, I was horrified. And to speak to whatever kind of spiritual essence might actually have been in that. It wasn't like this male BS kind of like, no one else can have her. It just felt like betrayal, you know, and it is betrayal, so I don't know.

Well, she was forced to kiss Jafar, Penn. Such a weird example. That's amazing. Yeah, it's not a good, it's not a triangle. It's not a love, it's like a villain taking advantage. I mean, my, the one that's on my mind right now is obviously the summer I turned pretty, belly, Jeremiah, and Conrad. You know all about that, Penn. Because it's currently coming out.

Oh. You know, and I'm currently watching. Listen, I'm pretty every summer. Okay. And which brother are you rooting for, Sophie? I mean, Conrad. Conrad. Conrad.

It's a given. Brooding. It's hard not to. Yeah. I mean, I feel like this is sacrilegious to say because it's the other vampire love triangle but Jacob, Bella, Edward, that's my favorite love triangle

and obviously team Edward. Although I do think that healthy, I feel like anyone who's team Jacob probably is just a very healthy person. Yeah, yeah, I was Team Jacob. There you go. So I'll say this. You know who else is Team Jacob?

Well, I can't, I actually shouldn't speak for our guest. I shouldn't do that. But something tells me if it is representative of being a good, person than Paul. Paul Wesley is team Jacob. He's otherwise an actor. He's a director, he's a producer. He became a household name for his decade long run as Stefan Salvatore on the hit series The Vampire Diaries, right? So since then, Paul has built an impressive career behind and in front of the camera with acclaimed performances in Tell Me a Story and before I disappear and directing

credits in some of television's biggest shows. So now he is, this is a good joke, just David wrote the copy, so I'm going to go and run with it right here. He is boldly going where few have gone before, stepping back into the legendary role of Captain James T. Kirk in the third season of Star Trek Strange New Worlds, which is on Paramount Plus. True to Form, they're

releasing weekly, which I love. Like a proper TV show. Agreed. I think binging is out and suspense is in. What do you guys think? 100%. 100%. We are so excited for you to hear this conversation with Paul Wesley. You need to stay tuned.

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What is a snapshot of daily life like for Paul at 12 years old? What was life like at 12? So I grew up in New Jersey. My family is from Warsaw, Poland. My parents immigrated here, you know, in their, I guess they're early 20s. I would say middle school years were probably my best years in terms of just me feeling accepted, you know, like I really kind of was enjoying myself.

And that all changed. High school was a lot harder. But middle school years were great. And I sort of didn't really have the acting bug yet. I didn't really know what I wanted to do. But I felt, I don't know, I guess I felt like I understood my place, you know, started to get my little friend group. My parents, you know, they were very not American.

I very much grew up in an American, you know, town. And I think in my previous years, that felt a little bit like, gosh, something's a bit different. and my parents have thick accents. And, you know, English wasn't my first language. And so my elementary school years were a little more difficult for me to adapt, I suppose. And then, you know, in middle school, I sort of felt pretty good. And I went to a co-ed, you know, just this basic standard American middle school.

And I really enjoyed it. And then not to move forward. But then everything shifted once my parents had. had this obviously really great idea to like, well, let's get them to a private school. Let's get them to, you know, we want the best education for our son. You know, my parents, my dad, you know, is a pretty sharp guy, came here with nothing, went to Columbia. He's an engineer. And I think my parents had always envisioned this sort of similar life for me to, you know, kind of try to get higher education. So I went to a private all boys school called Christian Brothers Academy. But that's when things got a little harder for me. you're intermixed with older kids and there's just a little bit of bullying and especially when it's all boys, there's a lot of testosterone and there are no girls to sort of balance that out. I'm not so victimizing myself, but I definitely had a really hard time until I got kicked out of there and discovered acting. But we'll get to that. What a great spoiler. Yeah. You mentioned your

parents being very un-American and you growing up in this very American town in New Jersey. And I'm curious about that to hear more, like, how did you sense that kind of like discrepancy? Did other kids at school bring that up to you? Or was it something you just felt like there were two worlds? I just remember getting a lot of like people started imitating my parents' accent. Now it's so cool to be European, right? cool to like, you know, it's like as an adult, but I had like, you know, my real name's Papa Vasilevsky and my parents have these thick accents. And I just remember everyone kind

of, not everyone, but there was a few kids that were just sort of began kind of taunting me a little bit. And I had spent a lot of my earlier years trying to adapt, trying to be more like them, which was what I thought was normal. You know, that's why I kind of thought. fell towards the sort of arts performing arts thing because I sort of, when we were mandated to do school plays, I immediately enjoyed playing a new character. I immediately enjoyed doing something that would take me out of my normal self where I could be someone else.

And I sort of fell in love with it. And the teachers noted that and started putting me in more like the lead and the school play. And, you know, I got kicked off the hockey team. because of i wasn't getting along with some of the kids and um they kicked me off for fighting i was a bit get you know a bit of a troublemaker my um my best friend at the time um his name is ricky and him and i um gosh we would just get into a lot of trouble because he was sort of the he was bullied a bit we both transferred we went from this middle school to this all boys private

school and he was bullied a bit and i was bullied a bit and the two of us sort of decided to to create like our little pact together. And we just started to look after one another. And it was always the two of us sort of trying to find our place in this all-boys private school, me for my own reasons and him for his own reasons. So by the time you're entering that phase, you have these, is it one or two little siblings now? I had one older sister who is two years older than me. Oh, oh, sorry, forgive me.

My parents decided to have another set of kids. I say another set of kids. They had one more child when I was 12, 11 or 12, and then another when I was about 13 or 14. Wow. So, yeah, it's interesting. They had me and my sister pretty young. And I asked my mom that.

I asked my dad and mom that all this time. I'm like, what happened? Like, why did you suddenly? And I think my mom, my mom, always just lived for her kids. And I think once she saw that the two of us were sort of like doing our own thing and fairly independent, I think she realized she was young enough to maybe have another set of kids.

And maybe the first one was an accident. But then the second one was a conscious decision. And then they went for it. And then they had, it's this weird thing. Three out of four is great. Exactly. We won't name which one. Hopefully she's not listening to this podcast.

But yeah, and I think they sort of just wanted to be parents again, you know. Did it shift your identity at all to have, like, a new baby in the house? It's funny because I was, like, kind of old enough where it's a bit embarrassing now to say this. But I was, like, pretty upset about it because I was always sort of the young one, you know. I was my older sister and me, and so I was always like the sort of, I hate to say it. But, like, in a weird way, I guess I felt like, oh, I'm the only boy. I'm the favorite. it. I'm like, you know, whatever. And suddenly there's another. And I just remember feeling

pretty upset, you know, initially, pretty upset about the fact that there was going to be a new baby, you know. It's very funny. It's a very funny psychological thing that I, and then of course, I remember visiting my mom at the hospital after she had, you know, given birth and then holding the baby and then everything kind of changed for me. But those, those, those, nine months or whatever were psychologically traumatic for me. Yeah. I appreciate that candor.

It's so stupid. It's just so stupid. No, it makes a lot of sense. No, it's not stupid at all. I mean, I've lived through that and I'm living through another version of it. So I totally understand. I guess I'm curious, like, you must have felt some sort of, and I think you would only be able to know this now in great retrospect.

But, you know, you have this older sister. Was there this thing where you, wanted to appear cool to her? Or what was your thing? Because, you know, if she's in, like, high school and you're in middle school, that's very much a thing. Very much a thing. Totally.

And she had these older friends, and, you know, you sort of try to overcompensate and, you know, show off and act real tough in front of them. And, you know, it's fine. Jersey is this funny thing, you know, where when I grew up, it wasn't about, you know, who as you get older um you sort of it's about you know your your charm or your your intelligence or your humor and all those things kind of are qualities that are important and when in jersey

and this is not all of jerse is just my specific childhoods when when it came to like the hierarchy of being cool it was who's the toughest and it was always like who can kick who's ass you know and so i was going out of my way. And maybe that's everywhere. I mean, it's not specific to New Jersey, but it's like, I just was going out of my way to appear as tough as possible. And I remember, gosh, I mean, I've never like admit this to anyone. But I remember me and my friend Ricky, we went through a phase where we were like,

well, we need to do steroids because we need to be as big as possible. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, we need to have huge muscles and we need to be like. And Ricky was really short. Okay. Ricky was really short, so he was always overcompensating. So he went for it, and he got really huge, and I started lifting. And it's the cliche of the Jersey Shore.

And I don't mean to, there's so many great things about New Jersey. It's a big state. Listen, you can say it. We can, but you can say it. Yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. But I totally fell for that, you know, where, you know, we were lifting weights five times a day, and we formed our little crew, and it was just, I was getting in a lot of trouble. I'm being very honest with you guys.

I was getting in a lot of trouble a lot of fistfights and a lot of nonsense and a lot of stupidity and I sometimes look back and I'm like my poor mother my God, she was just so stressed out. So why she had to have more kids.

Yeah, exactly. She was like, we just redo, redo. More estrogen. I learned from my mistakes. I will not be raised it that way again. No, totally. Totally. You know, I mean, you speak about it

with like, I don't know, something that leaves me to feel that you've like because some people have looked at that and reckoned with it not that it's like some awful thing

you reckon with it sounds totally normal to me but you know you sound somebody who's like somebody who's done that introspective work

I mean what what do you feel like you could attribute that to whether it was broadly cultural or just specific with you

that you were getting into trouble you know I just I think I don't know I mean I just I think I just

I also go into honestly like And I'm sure there's plenty of people that have gone to like all boys school. They're all girls schools that are like, I didn't have that experience. You're crazy. You know, but I for me, like, I just, I didn't, because there were no girls, all you have is like you're either an athlete and you're on the varsity team or you're, or you're like, you know, kind of a loser, you know? And I wasn't really on the varsity team. And I was like, well, what?

What do we got to do? We got to just like, we have to be intimidating. We don't have a choice, you know? And it wasn't until I started, I started doing act. I got kicked off the hockey team, as I mentioned before. And I remember I started acting. And I started doing a theater class in New York City, a theater, like, workshop with, and I sort of did it secretly because I thought it was kind of lame.

And I don't want everyone to find out that I wanted to be an actor. But I just remember going to Manhattan And meeting a bunch of these kids in the acting school Some were older than me And some were living in Brooklyn And they were like, hey, come hang out with us And I just remember like discovering New York City And I saw all these people that were like interested

In so many different things And they were all like it wasn't about being tough It was about you know Kind of like the world was so much bigger And I just remember going to New York And being like This is where I want to. want to be. And the first one of the, oh, and so sorry, let me just go back and say, me and

Ricky ended up getting this huge fight with like half the senior class. Like literally, it was like this crazy thing. Yeah, me and Ricky. Poor Ricky got the worst of it. But I just remember, I just remember that was it. The principal had enough. And he's like, you two are out. I'm expelling you two. So he kicked this out. And then I went to the public high school. And I went there for just a few months because I got into another fight. I mean, this is crazy. I'm going to sound like, I sound like I'm like a juvenile delinquent. You sound like a true hockey player is what you sound like.

Exactly. So I'm all my teeth. But got kicked out of there. My mom was like, God, what am I going to do with this kid? Like, what do I get kicked out of schools left and night? And she ended up sending me to this like prep school, like with 12 seniors. and I barely graduated from there. Even though I had pretty good grades,

but it was all behavioral. But at that point, I was auditioning in Manhattan. An agent saw me doing theater, and he was like, do you want to audition for TV shows? I was sure. And I ended up booking my first job pretty quickly, which was a soap opera. And it was like a regular on a soap opera.

And I said, you know what? I'm going to get an apartment. And I called Ricky, and I was like, Ricky, do you want to get an apartment with me? And he's like, sure. and he showed up at the time he had like a little Pomeranian and he showed up it was like him and his Pomeranian and we rented a studio in the West Village

it was hilarious he had these two guys from Jersey with like you know waxed eyebrows and tanned and like shaved chest and muscles yeah and we're living in the West Village yeah GTL in the West Village yeah it was really funny and we'll be right back

All right. So let's just, let's just real talk, as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. That dates me, doesn't it? But no, real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a one to ten? And I don't mean in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick. When you have responsibilities, I know myself, I'm a householder. I have two children and two more on the way. um a spouse a pet you know a job that sometimes has its demands so i really want to feel like when i'm not getting the sleep and i'm not getting nutrition when my eating's down i want to know that i'm that i'm being held down some other way physically you know my family holds me down emotionally spiritually but i need something to hold me down physically right and so honestly i turn to symbiotica these these these these these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious and i'm telling you um even before i started doing ads for these guys it was a product that i uh i really really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with um the three that i use

i use i use uh the what is it called liposomal vitamin c and it tastes delicious like really really good um comes out in the packet you put it right in your mouth some people don't do that i do it i think it tastes great i use the liposomal uh glutathione as well in the morning um really good for gut health, and although I don't need it, you know, anti-aging. And then I also use the magnesium L3 and 8, which is really good for, I think, mood and stress. I sometimes use it in the morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible.

Honestly, you don't even need to mix it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed. for 20% off plus free shipping. What do you remember hearing about Hurricane Katrina? I was in elementary school in the Philippines, and so I was getting little bits and pieces here and there,

but I really wasn't well-versed in the whole story. And it turns out I wasn't alone, because the effects ran much deeper than what most of us had heard in the news. It upended a public school system that was already collapsing, leading to the most radical education experiment in American history. It impacted the lives of thousands of children. In a new five-part podcast series,

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And I, she was my girlfriend for like an extended period of time. And I remember I got my first TV show and then I got my first pilot and suddenly I went out west, right? You got to come to L.A. We need you in L.A. Okay, so I went to L.A.

She came with me. And I just remember, I know. And then I just remember while we were in L.A. I was like, this is not like, I can't. you know, this isn't going to, like, I need to, like, be single, you know, because I hadn't really been single.

And I need to, I can't, you know, we've been together for so many years. I was so young. And that was, I ended up, like, breaking up with her. And that was probably my friend. And I was like, I'm sorry. And then she had to, like, go back to New Jersey. Or actually, she maybe ended up staying in L.A. for a little bit. But that was, like, a long relationship where, you know, was a heartbreak.

that was caused by me because I just felt like I can't just be with you know and some people can be with their high school sweethearts but I for me felt like it wasn't the right thing and that was probably you know my first heartbreak so it was difficult it was difficult yeah wow how did you find the the courage to have that conversation it was it was I wish I had done it in a you know it was like a slow a slow conversal a year a year-long conversation you know it was a bit yeah yeah yeah you know I ended up gosh it was like those days where you know the business was so different and I was just you know it was like I things were so plentiful I know there's like lots of stuff happening now because of all the streaming but there's some reason it felt like I was going to

do pilots I was flying it was easier because I wasn't as around and I was able to do it from a distance, I guess. But there was... Easy for you. Easier for me. She's doing great. I think she has two kids now. She's fine.

She's fine, yeah. I'm really curious, like, you know, you mentioned that you were doing school theater, right? And it was this kind of unexpected outlet and way to express yourself, all that stuff. How did it turn into New York City? How did it turn into, you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. um my parents were um they were not by any means like we need our child to be an actor so we can

you know profit off of that it wasn't that kind of thing it was they just could tell i i started doing these plays in um the all boys school um kind of secretly because i didn't want anyone to know they saw that i really enjoyed it and um they actually put me in a they thought oh well let's put Paul in a modeling school. So, because it's a way in, they didn't know. And I had, I was in this, like, local modeling school in New Jersey. I thought you had to, you know, walk on the running rail, you know, do the, do the blue steel.

For listeners, Paul just did a very good, like, Zoolander. Very good. It was really good. Yeah, man. Well, thanks, Penn. Thanks. Years of years of, uh, study. Um, and I, and I remember, um, that somehow led me to, um, that somehow led me to,

get into a modeling agency, Ford Models, actually. And somehow that got me to New York. And then I don't quite remember the exact transition, but I was like, well, I don't really, I'm not really into this modeling thing. Can I try to go for an agent?

And then it was like, let's do acting classes in New York City. And then we did these like theater workshops. And then they would invite agents to come to the theater workshops, to scout new talent. And somehow that agent from that workshop saw me. And that was kind of it right there. And then

then I got guiding light. I remember I went in. Do you guys know Britney Snow, the actress? Yeah, yeah. We had her on as well. Oh, good. Okay, she's the bus. She's one of my closest friends now. And I remember Brittany was like one of the leads of the guiding line. I went in to do a chemistry with her in front of the producers and I did it terror. I remember during my chemistry and I totally forgot my line and I go, line. I don't know what. I was like line.

Like I've seen that. I've seen that on TV. And the showrunner guy was like, gave me the line. I was like, boom. I don't even know why I do that because I don't think I'd ever even seen anyone do that. But I think they were impressed that I had the, you know, professionalism via line. Anyway, I ended up getting that part. And Brittany and I played boyfriend and girlfriend for like three years. She was like 14.

I was like 16 or something. She was 13 years old. And I remember Brittany talks about all the time. It's kind of funny. I was her first kiss ever. and it was actually on camera but it was also her first kiss in yeah yeah yeah and I didn't know that at the time

so we had this kissing scene you know I kissed a bunch of girls I was like older you know I remember she was so I was like what is she so nervous about what was going on and then her mom later told me that was Britney's first kiss yeah and it was really funny I grew up alongside you know when Britney was on we talked about this

and I knew this anyway I'd forgotten that detail but I know I know a lot of A lot of friends of mine I grew up with had their first kiss on camera. It's a strange, you know, strange actor-kick thing. I know. And of course, you don't want to admit that, right? So you pretend like, you know, what the hell you're doing? But, yeah, Brittany and I laugh about it all the time because we're pretty good buddies now.

And, um, but anyway, I got getting lied. And then, um, you know, that was killer because all my friends were working at, you know, whatever, McDonald's or something. And I'm here I am making a little bit of money, got this apartment in New York City. And I just had the time of my life. Those were the best years of my life when I had a fake ID in Manhattan. I was on a TV show. Early 2000s. Oh, my God.

Yeah, it was like late 90s. Yeah, exactly. Early 2000s. Yeah, late 90s, early 2000s in New York City. Waxed eyebrows. Oh, my God. It was like no, no social media, right? So it's like, no, you're not.

You just do whatever the hell you want. And it was just the best. And then, you know, the whole, let's get you, just get you to read for some pilots. And I remember I was 16 or 17. I remember because I had to have my sister come with me and shoot the pilot. I got my first pilot in Vancouver. Shot a pilot, didn't get picked up. And I'm like, well, you're all on West Coast anyway.

So just go to L.A. Shut up to L.A. Didn't know a single person except for one guy. Stayed with him for a little bit. I kind of hated it for the first six months. and then sort of fell in love with it. And then honestly, I'm one of those, like, I got really lucky kept doing stuff.

I just kept somehow I kept getting pilots and shows and this and that, and I just stayed, and I stayed until I was 20. And I had booked a few shows. None of them really got picked up to series, maybe one or two. And then I remember being in my 20s, early 20s, And this is, you know, I remember, like, I think Gossip Girl was a big hit at one point prior to me booking the Bampart Areas. It was all like big shows.

Yeah. O.C. Do you remember O.C.? That was, I guest starred on it. But I, of course, read for the lead guy and they didn't give it to me. And I kept being like, God, what am I going to get my show that's, that's, you know, going to hit the, you know, zeitgeist. And I remember I got the script.

Careful what you wish for, Paul. Yeah, no, I know. I know. Isn't this funny? And I had tested for. So many shows, as I'm sure you did Penn and you almost get them. And you always think to yourself, it's that like sliding doors or whatever, run, little to run.

It's like, what if I had gotten that? What would have my life looked like? It's just like one thing can really change your life, right? So anyway, I got the script for the Vampire's. I want to read for that role, the role that I ended up getting. They were like, no, you're way too old. I'm curious why Stefan and not Damon, because given a lot of your background, I'd be like, you seem like you could have been a good day.

I know. A fighter. So I just saw Stefan as this, I wanted Stefan. I just wanted that role. And I told them I want to read for that role. And they said, no, they want you to read for Damon. And I think they saw what you probably, they were like, he could play Damon. He can't play Stefan.

He's not, you know, he's not the right guy. So I went in, I read for Damon. I got a call back. I thought it was okay. You know, I did my thing. Didn't hear anything for like a month and a half. I was done. I think I ended up testing for two other shows.

I tested that show, The Mentalist. I almost got that show. Yeah, all these different things between. And I think I was starting to get a phone call. And they're like, oh, because I remember the cash director really liked me for it, but the showrunners did not. Like Kevin Williamson was like, no, we don't want Paul. I could say it because Kevin's my buddy now.

But they cast Ian Summerholder to play Damon. And they're like, well, Dan's, Ian's four years older than you. So we want to read Paul for the role that he initially wanted, which is Stefan, we had already, they had already done two or three rounds of screen tests. None of them worked out for the role. The show was starting to shoot in a week and a half. And they were like, we're going to have to shoot.

Yeah, they're like, we're going to have to push the pilot. So they ended up doing this huge cattle call. And they flew in, and I, anyway, I ended up reading for Stefan. They offered me to test at the network or studio the next day. I remember showing up to the studio, and there were, I kid you not, 12 guys testing. And they had guys from New Zealand, guys from London, guys from...

You know, you're usually testing a network against one, two, maybe three other people. Like, and at this point, you know, you sign the contracts, at least in my memory, this is like how it was. You know, you... So you're very, very, very close. And it feels, even if you're not competitive,

it just feels like the stakes are extremely high. It's very competitive. And so the idea that you were with 12 other people is pretty like, I would imagine that was like, possibly deflating but then maybe this is where your two-chair method comes in handy i don't know no that's that's right first of all yeah that's correct so penned right psychologically is weird because they they literally give you the contract right before you go into the room to read yeah you remember this it's been a while yeah it's such a it's such a it's such a mind fucking it's like such a trip yeah

it's such a bizarre thing and so they hand out these contracts these like six or seven year contracts and all the guys are signing them. And your lawyer had looked at it. I don't know if they still do it this way, but that's what they did. So you're seeing everyone. They're all in the hallway. Everyone's signing their deal. No one knows what their deal is and where each other's deal is.

Anyway, yeah, I remember it was psychologically like, Jesus, it's a lot of guys. But prior to doing this test, I had a lot of failed screen tests. I had a plethora. I tested probably, you know, more than the average. It was like maybe five or six tests every pilot season, which was, but I was not getting to that final. I could never get over the, like I was, I had booked a bunch of pilots, but in the last couple of years, something was psychologically hindering me from going to the next level.

And I remember my manager at the time, Susan, she's like, look, I think you're having a psychological blockage. And I think you need to go to a sports therapist. And I remember she set it up. She found a therapist who was actually the therapist for a bunch of professional baseball pitchers. Because, you know, as you can imagine, when you're a baseball pitcher, you're, you know, we're talking like inches or centimeters can make a difference, right? And so you really have to hone in and focus.

And so she primarily dealt with athletes, basketball players. baseball players. Anyway, I went in there and I explained everything to her and we did only one session. I remember being extraordinarily expensive. At the time, I was like, Jesus, how am I going to afford this? But I did it and the methodology was like, it sounds sort of like elementary because you're essentially, you're sitting in a chair, there's an empty chair, she's over there, and essentially she brings you to that place of blockage. And then she has you sit in the chair, next to the empty chair and you talk to your old to yourself and you try to so you're in effect and I'm explaining this the worst possible way and it's been years now but you're creating new sort of

like neurological pathways so when you're in that position rather than going through the same sort of neurological pathway that you had been going through you create a new little path and you know how to sort of circumvent what you typically would do and sabotage yourself in effect. And I know I'm kind of, I don't know if I'm effectively explaining it. But anyway, I did a bunch of exercises. I spoke to myself. I did all these things.

I left the therapy session thinking, okay, well, let's see. And I remember I get to the Vampire's audition. And something about, I felt like a bit of a warrior. I was like, okay, there's a lot of guys here. I don't really care. Nina Dobrev was already cast. you were sort of standing in the hallways and she'll tell you these stories too every guy was going up to her introducing themselves trying to you know maybe oh maybe

she'll say put in a good word for me if I'm blurty with her or if I'm really nice to her or something and in the audition scene the chemistry that we're about to do we're actually meeting for the first time so I had made a very conscious decision to not introduce myself and to completely ignore her that was the only one in the entire hallway wouldn't even look her in the eye I said I'm going to meet her in the room. I'm going to meet her in the room in front of everybody. And I remember she looked at me. Like, is he going to come say hi? And I just looked away. We could have gone south. And we get into the room, all the executives there are, Penn, I know

you've done this and, you know, I know you had to do this. Probably literally have been in that same room with the executive. Yes, of those I must have been. Yeah, it was like Peter Roth and, you know, all these guys. And you're, and I just remember we started doing the scene. And we had never, spoken and so there was kind of exciting sort of energy there right and i get to this moment and i remember feeling in my brain oh this is where i sabotage myself this is where it goes downhill and it went and it just went right around right around and i got through it got through the scene when i was like finished and i went oh wow i felt that that went really well i somehow didn't fuck that up like I usually do, you know?

And then it was like Hunger Games, you know, the woman comes out with a clipboard. She's like, you, you, you go home, you, you, you stay. And then we did this round. And we were there all day, all day. They kept dwindling guys down doing like dudes would leave with their luggage because they had just arrived from like, you know, who knows where, Australia.

Yeah. And it came down to me and one guy. And then it was like just the two of us. And I just kind of knew it was mine. I just sort of knew that it was mine. And did the test, the final video recording for the network. Because usually you go studio the network, but because the pilot was shooting a week later, we then recorded one last chemistry read that they would send to Les Moonvez,

who was the president at the time at CBS, which OMCW. Anyway, that was it. didn't hear anything for like four days and i honestly didn't care i felt so good about what i did and i just did not care about it because i knew i did it and you don't always feel that sometimes you just go like god i could have done that and i could have done that and i couldn't have done i was like no i did what i had to do and i was in an audition waiting room to go to about to go read for another pilot as you do in pilot season at the time and um my phone rings and they were I was like, they were about to call my name, like, Paul, you know, to go into the room to read.

And my, you know, agent was like, you're going to Vancouver. And I remember it was the best feeling. They were like, Paul. And I was like, actually, I can't read for this right now. These I've booked a show and I'm heading to Vancouver. Good luck. And I left. Yeah.

That's incredible. That's so great. I love that you truly know how to handle the hottest girl in the room thing. You know, you're right? You're like, don't look at her. When and down, for, Ned. Well, Paul, actually, I was curious. Nina obviously went viral for saying that you guys didn't like each other initially.

And I just want to hear your perspective on that, your POV on that. Sure. Source bots. Yeah, no, no. Actually, when we were shooting the pilot, we liked each other quite a bit. And we got along grade and everybody got along. And, you know, then the show got picked up. And we get to Georgia.

where they moved, we shopped on Vancouver, but we moved it to Atlanta, Georgia for a series when it got picked up. And just, you know, to keep a long story short, I was taking the role very seriously. And she was taking the role very seriously. You know, we were all the young actors, and we could tell this was going to be kind of special. I want to say, I want to say just to provide larger context to this,

to those of us on Gossip Girl, I don't remember if it was like one or two years, it was even clear from I have this dim memory of being like the network that I even feel and I'm not saying this to like it's not

I just want to commend you guys and also just speak for the listener's sake to the sort of stakes and the aura surrounding that show you guys got what I perceived as a special treatment and I mean it in a good way like they really cared about that show

It really, really, really cared about that show. And it was like Gossip Girl had kind of proven the CW because the CW was not necessarily clearly going to work. Right. And so Gossip Girl had kind of proven it, but I think what they were looking to do was like just up the ante even. You know what I mean?

And there was something about that show, I just recall. There was like such a special buzz around it. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, object. I wasn't able to like, objectively see that like you know sure um and but i do recall you know twilight was such a success and and i remember there was this all this insanity with twilight and suddenly there's this new vampire show and i think perhaps um they had sensed that maybe this could be a similar opportunity but on

you know for television and they were right you know and um yeah i just i i i have to tell you tell you, I felt a lot of pressure. I felt an immense amount of pressure. And perhaps that's why we didn't get along. And it's 50% me and probably maybe it's 100% me. I don't know. And I just remember being like taking my shit really seriously. And too seriously. I was, I kind of didn't really have a sense of humor about things. And we just conflicted, not about our personalities off screen. It was more on screen. The way in which she wanted to do a scene was not the way in which I wanted to do a scene. And it was, again, this is all just like we were so young. And I was like, it's all about spontaneity. And I'm not going to stand on this mark. I'm going to do what I want

to do. And then you're going to adapt. And you're going to do what you want to do and I'm going to adapt. And that's what's going to create magic on screen. And she was like, no, we need to plan things out. I'm going to stop here, you go there and this is, we have to, like, so her methodology was that we needed to work together to, you know, figure out the technicalities of the scene. And my methodology was that I don't want to,

of course, I'm not an idiot. You have to stand on your mark. Of course, there's lighting. But, like, I didn't want to premeditate things. It was really, it came to that. It came down to that. And we would butt heads. And it was like, we would just get into these.

It's so funny because people thought we had such great chemistry and we were like the romantic like love story on the show and we kept it on the DL because we did a lot of press and we did a lot of stuff but her and I just notoriously butted heads like I mean we wouldn't get into these like we got into one big blowout fight on set and they were like okay everybody take a half hour and we're going to pause filming for a minute and everyone's going to cool off you know that kind of thing um and then the irony of the whole situation is that as the show, you know, grew in success and as I became more comfortable in my role and just as a human being, too, I had never dealt with, I sound so absurdly pretentious to say

this, but like it's the reality I had never dealt with fame. And I didn't understand the, I didn't understand it. Frankly, I didn't like it. It's like I liked it, but I also hated it. And it really affected me. And I probably wasn't the easiest person. work with at the time and um you know i had this whole i just was a bit of a you know no phones and no phones on set no than that just like kind of you know and the irony is that now we're such good friends and we like are you know once we stepped away from the show and even later like in later seasons we just became buddies i was like that's hang out and then we started doing and then it's one of these it's like this funny thing because like her and i are like actual like

bros now and we get along so well that's awesome and we're always and we always talk about it let's do let's do something together let's do a movie together let's do another and we actually like had a few things we were dabbling with maybe doing something together and i'm pretty sure if you did it would break the internet so you know was it just like a gradual things got better or did you have to have like a conversation sit down together no there was no you know it was just like all the sudden we just like, and it wasn't even like on a dime, we just gradually were like, oh, we really like each other.

Oh, God, we were just such stupid kids. Like, why were we arguing? This is so dumb. And then all of a sudden, I developed, like, a sense of humor about it, too. And I started to, like, make fun of myself. And God, I was such a pain in the ass. I was so serious. And she was like, you know, we were just like juvenile, you know,

it was just like dumb kids, you know. You really were kids. I mean, it's a very specific experience. She was like 20 or something when she had cast. like 21 when she when we were in season one i was like 26 and i guess i guess i was a bit older but um it's still quite young yeah yeah yeah and it's just i mean you know what it's like pen it's just like there was just maybe maybe maybe you handled it better but i just uh i don't know i didn't deal with the fame thing that well the and it was a different kind of thing thing

it's not you know how it is like the the cw fame is a different kind of fame is a different kind of fame from life. It is. It's completely, you know, Philip Semer-Hawfman fame. It comes with this, yeah, it comes with an inherent sort of frustration and a complex. And I think just regardless of when it happens, unless you're significantly older, for instance, Pedro Pascal is having this sort of famous, what would we call it? It's whatever it is, I mean, he's, as I understand it, I mean, he was on a lot of those shows, you know, back when he was in his 20s.

but didn't blow up and he's now having this incredible period like as a middle-aged man and um i've at least my youtube algorithm has shown me shorts which seemed to indicate in about 15 seconds that he's really enjoying it so you know i and i i'll just go ahead and take that as fact yeah it's funny i was doing a play with um david harbour and this was during my vampire deris I decided to do play off Broadway and it was me and David and one other actress and I remember David was in the dressing room and he's like

yeah yeah because he had done a bunch of stuff but he had not been nominated for Tony but you know never really like popped like he wasn't like the name name you know David was backstage and he was like I just did this show called Stranger Things and oh my God I just remember talking

to David and being like you know whatever I think I'd ask him like are you guys going to Comic Con he's like no I'm like Oh, well, if you're not going to Comic-Con, then maybe Netflix is not backing it hard. And, you know, we'll see what happens kind of thing. And him and I used to be good buddies. And anyway, I remember Stranger Things came out and it became the biggest show in the history of, you know, Netflix and all. Maybe even arguably, like, one of the biggest shows ever.

And David had this huge career sort of, you know, boost in his 40s. And similar to Pedro Pascal. And I remember thinking, oh, man, that's cool. like to have that happen in your 40s versus when you're like a dumb 20 year old and you know, you don't know, you're like ill-equipped, you know? And so I am envious of Pedro Pascal and David Harbour for having that.

It's also so nice to see that in so many different fields because, you know, it feels like when your 20s are done, you're done in some ways. Or if you haven't reached a certain point, then, you know, there's no hope of, of, getting there, at least if you're on the way, then you're okay. But it's nice to see these examples of people in their 40s, 50s, 60s who start new ventures or... Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Or yeah, like John Hamm, too, right? Like, John Hamm popped

off Madman. He wasn't terribly young, right? Yeah. Guys, George Clooney. George Clooney really didn't, really didn't take off until, I think, early 40s, right? Yeah, sounds about right. Yeah. Stick around. We'll be right back. I don't think we're talking about our hormones enough. They affect everything. Our energy, mood, sleep, even our skin. And when they're out of balance, oh my God, fatigue, mood swings, brain fog, breakouts, you name it. It can feel like everything is just a little off. That's why I started using glow by beam. It's a once daily hormone balancing blend for women that's made such a difference. One scoop. gives you 18 active ingredients, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, plus electrolytes, all designed to support metabolism, immune function, hydration, even collagen production for healthier hair, skin, and nails. And it's so easy. Just mix one scoop with water, shake it up, and you're good to go.

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Quince.com slash podcrushed. Paul, speaking of long, long-term things, the other great love story in the vampire diaries is between Stefan and Damon. Tell us about your relationship with Ian. The true love story. Yeah. That's what we always say. That's actually the true love story.

Final shot of the Vamborers, me and him hugging. Ian, look, Ian and I met on the show. We are very yin and yang. We are totally the opposite in every possible way. And that is a good thing. In terms of, like, when we worked on screen together, that's why things gel. That's why she was torn between the two brothers,

because we're so different. And that applies to real life. He's become, you know, Ian is like, I mean, frankly, even Nina, you know, they're like brother and sister to me. You know, Ian, for sure, very much so, because I see him all the time because, you know, we were doing the show, we were really close. You know, what else am I going to, like, confide in?

You know, he's going through this with me. Although, again, he and I are just so different if he was able to handle things in a different way. He's like, let's go. Let's be. You know, he was like, he was living it up. I was struggling with it. But, you know, Ian and I have always, we spend so much time together on set every single day for eight years and traveled the world together.

And now we started a bourbon company together. And we have this hilarious relationship where we have a shorthand, you know, it's like I don't, I don't even consider him a friend. like he's very much just family and i you know he's like we fight like brothers we love each other like brothers he's like i know what he's thinking i know exactly what he's going to i can literally finish his sentence for him because i know what he's going to say it's that kind of thing you know and um you know and and he and i again because we're so different we have a compatibility that can actually be quite good um um for success whether it's our our bourbon company or for a television show that we're shooting. That's amazing. You guys have such a funny back and forth on social

media. I'm sure people, you know, people live for it, but it's so great. Yeah. Yeah, I rip on him and he does his best to rip on me. But he's less effective at it. During you talk about your friendship with Ian is so heartening. I was just talking with some family members yesterday about this rise of people confiding in chat GPT and other AI model. and there was an interview with a person who talks to their chat bot all the time and confides in them and asks them for advice and stuff. And they were explaining that part of the reason why is because they feel like they can be really honest. They can tell, you know, this AI model really intimate things

because it's not going to have any opinion or judgment on them like an actual person would. And I was just thinking like, gosh, we really, I'm scared of a world where like, less, we were less and less likely to, like, build friendships. And I think just hearing you talk about your friendship with Ian is so sweet and special and hope that, like, we don't lose that on mass, you know, people developing friendships like that. The other problem with chat GPT is the chat GPT, no matter what dumb question you asked, it says, amazing question. Yeah. That's so true.

That's the one of the, wow, you're a genius for asking that. And the chat GPT just makes you feel so good. But it's also nice to have somebody that goes, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard in my life. Don't you want friends that are honest with you? Don't you want friends? Isn't that the whole beauty of friendship? How did you feel approaching this role?

Did you feel that, I mean, obviously there's a responsibility. Obviously, there's a weight to it. And then, of course, you know, anybody with half a brain would know that you have to approach it like it's your own thing as well. So I'm just curious, that and then also, you know, Star Trek comes itself is like a whole world view, you know? And it's a world view that I actually think is beautifully and starkly different from so many other franchises or, you know, kind of like fantasy canon, which is that it has this like approach to nonviolence in conflict and an optimistic vision of human nature. that actually if you really investigate it it's very rare in all of like modern storytelling i think it's really really amazing so so how did you feel approaching the role of kirk you know the

responsibilities the weight the pressure maybe the lightness and then how did you feel diving into star trek you know yeah um you're absolutely right um there is a people most stories are pretty cynical um or pessimistic and um one of the things about star trek is that it envisions a future that is actually that has quite a bit of harmony obviously there's conflict it's a space adventure show um what's genius about star trek is that um is so deeply imaginative and metaphorical there's there's so much symbolism um it's very much a reflection on our own society that's what great science fiction is um but you know to answer you know the the second part of that question approaching it It was, you know, I'll just start with saying that, like, you know, and as you know, Penn, when you do a role that is, or you do a TV show that is so part of the pop cultural zeit guys, such as Gossip Girl of Vampire, as you start thinking to yourself, how am I ever going to get out of this, sort of. You do another one, brother. It is. And I, but funnily enough, you, you know, you, you found you.

And it really, you're, no one thinks of you from gossip growing. I think of you as from the guy from, yeah, I mean, 50-50, but that's actually, I mean, consider the odds. That's exactly right. I'm not at the 50-50, but this does help because it is such a, it is such a profoundly, what's the right word, notorious, infamous, you know, important role in television history. When they offered me the part, I was like, oh my God, yes, please.

It was like, you know, a tall glass of water in the desert. and kind of thing. But I, also that came with a lot of, I was nervous. I was like, wait a minute. So who's played this role?

It's just Bill, William Shatner. And then Chris Pine in the movies, and that's it. Nobody else has done it, you know? I'll be the first guy

to do it on television since William Shadner. So, of course, I was petrified, and I had sort of dabbled with the idea of, okay, am I going to re-watch

every episode of the original series and try to imitate what he did? Am I going to try to, you know? But of course not. That would be idiotic, and that would just be

even more of a sort of spotlight on the fact that I'm not William Shatner. I'm just the guy imitating William Shatner. So I decided to sort of do my own thing for better or for worse. I said, okay, well, what am I doing? I'm doing a prequel to Star Trek. Okay, what are some of the qualities that would not be as developed? Is he as confident? Is he as, you know, sure-footed?

Is he developed that level of charm and sort of decisiveness and all those qualities? And I decided, well, let me make him a little more timid. Let me give him a little. Let's create an evolution here. Let's sort of like create an evolution to this infamous character, this infamous captain that we all love. So I'm playing Lieutenant Kirk. And I've approached it where I try to instill some mannerisms.

I try to instill some of the sort of physicalities that William Shatner is so well known for. But at the same time, I'm doing my own thing. And, you know, it's been an interesting ride. people, some people are really responding to it and some people are very upset that I'm not doing an imitation of William Shatner and that it's blasphemous. And you can't, you have to sort of push away all that and you have to just kind of stick to your guns and do what you've got to do. And it's been a great ride. I love, I feel deeply honored. And as, you know, we're going back to shoot season five, which will be the final season, and then, you know, the finale, I'm not revealing

anything because they said it, is me taking the chair, me sitting in the cat, becoming captain. And so I get to season five is another opportunity for me to perhaps infuse a little bit more of the sort of Captain Kirk that we know. Wow, that's interesting. So playing Kirk has allowed you to play in this genre that you you hadn't gotten to before. I'm curious if there's any roles or genres that you haven't taken on yet that you have your eye on that you feel like you could do justice to. You know, it's funny because last week on Paramount, an episode, sorry, maybe a week and a half ago, not last Thursday, but Thursday prior to that, an episode aired where we did a sort of

an absurd parody. We did an absurd. We did this AI. It was a holodeck episode where it's not the real world. And we played characters that were on a television show in the 1960s called The Last Frontier, which was a kind of a hit, and it's a space adventure show. And so essentially, we did a kind of parody of the pop cultural sort of stereotype of what Star Trek was and the making of Star Trek in the 60s. And I got to play this over the top.

ridiculous actor named Maxwell Saints who had his own set of mannerisms and they kind of point being in short it was a comedy and I had such a blast doing it the the episode was very well received some people hated it because they thought we were you know kind of making fun of Star Trek which we absolutely weren't it was a love letter to Star Trek but I got to dabble a little bit in comedy and I had done some comedy before And it would be nice to do more, I have to say, because the role of Steppen is so serious and the role of Captain Kirk is, you know, he actually has a lot of humorous moments and he's known for his comedy, but I would love to do more comedy because I think, A, I enjoy the hell out of it, but B, I think it would help people see a different version of me. And it's funny because during COVID, I started doing these Instagram Q&As with my close friends and close friends on Instagram, which was actually people that were not actually close friends, but just anybody who wanted to join Instagram. So I would do these funny things, and they went viral, and it was known for, like, kind of the humor.

I don't know if you guys have seen it. Penn, I know you're on the, looking at my close friends on the social media, again. Yeah, yeah. How do I get on that list? Yeah, damn it. But maybe you guys have heard of it because a lot of people called me about it. But point being, it was me, I got to sort of be a little bit, you know, humorous. And people, oh, I didn't know, Paul had a sense of humor, which I was, like, deeply offended by.

But I also understand why they would, why they would think that. So, long story short, I'd love to do some comedy. That's great. I want that for you. Yeah. Thanks. Thanks. If you could go back to 12-year-old Paul, what would you do or say, if anything?

I spent a lot of my, a lot of my teenage years and 20s, very anxious. Really, this is so cliche, but just, God, if I could have just enjoyed the ride a little more, it's not, don't take yourself so seriously. on it goes fast enjoy what you have and I was very lucky to have the I've had a lot of joyous moments

don't get me wrong it's not like I sat in depression for 15 years but I wish that I had embraced some of the beautiful spontaneity and instability of life which kind of creates magic. And particularly the things that made me different in my teenage years that I was upset about

are exactly what made me who I am today. And I'm very grateful for who I am today. And wish sometimes we live, it's such a myopic perspective when you're young, it's very hard to see outside of what your vision is at the time. time. If you can just understand the bigger picture and enjoy it, that is probably the best advice I could give to my younger self and hopefully to my future child. Love that. Beautiful. Thank you so much for coming on, man.

Thank you, guys. You can watch Paul Wesley on Star Trek, Strange New Worlds on Paramount Plus, and you can keep up with Paul online at Paul Wesley. Pod Crush is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navacavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Cliffs Agency. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time, because guess what? You can listen completely ad-free. Plus, you'll unlock exclusive bonus content, like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film Into the Wild had on him.

The conversation was so moving, and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to Lemonada Premium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's Lemonada Premium.com. Don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to Podcresh, ad-free on Amazon Music with your prime membership. Okay, that's all. Bye. Hey, sorry, guys. Hey, sorry about that. I froze right after I heard that Ricky had a Pomeranian, which is the craziest detail. I feel like this is a cartoon. I know. I was laughing so hard at that. And I looked at your guys' faces and Penn was so serious. I was like, okay, Ben.

Okay. No, seriously, I can't believe that after all this, Ricky has a Pomeranian. It was like, you couldn't write this. That was really fun. I was like, Ricky has a Pomeranian. You two are laughing in Pense's like, yeah, exactly.

I was like, that's weird. Tough right. I was like, God, he's really staring at my soul. He loves Pomeranian. God. Our health care system is broken in so many ways. We have a health care system that's supposed to be taking care of people

that is making it literally more difficult for people to put food on the table. So this season, we'll dive into the challenges head first while also thinking about how we can find a better way because we all deserve better. Uncared for Season 3 from Lemonada Media. Available August 6th, wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, it's Lena Waithe.

Legacy Talk is my love letter to black storytellers. artists who've changed the game and paved the way for so many of us. This season, I'm sitting down with icons like Felicia Rashad, the Reddy Devine, Ava Du René, and more. We're talking about their journeys, their creative process, and the legacies they're building every single day. Come be a part of the conversation. Season two drops July 29th.

Listen to Legacy Talk wherever you get your podcast, or watch us on YouTube.