Podcrushed - Rachel Bilson

Episode Date: July 16, 2025

In this engaging and nostalgic episode, Rachel Bilson chats with the hosts about her upbringing, the unique insights from her podcast 'Broad Ideas', and fun behind-the-scenes stories from her time on 'The OC'. They also delve into high school memories, people pleasing, and personal growth through challenges. And preorder our new book, Crushmore, here: https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Crushmore/Penn-Badgley/9781668077993    Take the online quiz and introduce Ollie to your pet. Visit https://www.ollie.com/podcrushed for 60% off your first box of meals! #ToKnowThemIsToLoveThem Cymbiotika is hosting their biggest giveaway ever this summer. Head to Cymbiotika.com/summersweepstakes to learn more.    Want more from Podcrushed? Follow our social channels here: Insta: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedInsta TikTok: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedTikTok X: https://bit.ly/PodcrushedTwitter   You can follow Penn, Sophie and Nava here: Insta:   / pennbadgley     / scribbledbysophie     / nnnava   Tik Tok:   / iampennbadgley     / scribbledbysophie     / nkavelin  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada. My mom was always very open with me. In her house, are there commasutra, you know, pictures hanging? Yes. Like, has my daughter questioned it yet? No, which is also interesting. Welcome to Pod Crush. We're hosts. I'm Penn.

I'm Sophie. And I'm Nava. And I think we would have been your middle school besties. Calling each other bitches at first glance. But only because I'm jealous, you're so hot. Welcome to Checks Notes. Pod Crushed. Welcome to Podcrushed.

I'm joined by my co-host. I feel like Sophie might have even offered a genuine chuckle. Yeah, no, I'm laughing because I was looking through some of our comments and, you know, at the roundtable you made similar joke. Yeah, I make the joke a lot. Welcome to the fifth and final season of Podcrush. and everyone was like, no, is this really the fifth and final season? I'm like, people are going to really start to think you don't know the name of your show. What's going on ever?

I'm joined by my co-host, Sophie Ansari and Navi Kavlin. Welcome. How are you two today? Doing great. How are you guys? Happy to be here. I'm actually great. So Rachel in this episode is going to talk about a product that she wishes she had like, that she could like stock up on that's gone out of stock. No, what is it?

He's no longer being made. And I have, I don't know if we have any famous listeners. I know that Penn is famous, but he's not going to do this. He's not going to do me a solid. And he doesn't listen to the show. Yeah. No, no, no. But if we have any famous listeners who want to, like, take up my charity case, I'd be really grateful.

Kit Kat came out with a limited edition, like, mint. And it's not the mint duo, because everyone really sweetly reaches out to me when I post this on my Instagram. They had, like, a limited edition, dark chocolate, cookie smash, mint, Mint cookie smash Kit Kat Bar that is the best thing I've ever tasted. And they only sold it in Canada for a while. And I would buy all of them if there were any available, but I think they stopped making it. So if any of our famous listeners could like post a plea to Nestle

to bring back Kit Kat Mint Cookie Smash, I would be so, so, so eternally grateful. I would give anything for that to come back. Please, somebody hook me up. This is a genuine plea. I've been on the hunt for this for five years. I think it doesn't exist. I think they don't make it.

I think it was like a seasonal thing they made for Canada for some reason. I'm sort of blown away by the fact that you refer to Nestle as Nestle. I think that's how you say it. Refined chocolatier. That's my thing. If I could bring any defunct thing back into existence, it would be this kick-cat bar. Do you guys have anything like that that's like no longer in circulation that you would bring back? The first thing that I thought of was, you know how McDonald's will do like regional menus, like in different countries?

they'll have certain menu items. By the way, this is not an ad. No, no. These are like our genuine pleas and wants. In Manila, when I was in middle school, for a very brief period, like it must have been just a couple months. They had a rice burger.

And I think they've done it since, but never really fully. But it was good. Oh my God, it was a burger. And the patties were like compact rice that had been like seared. So it's crunchy. I think about that rice burger.

constantly. Cool. For me, it would be, it's not food, but there was a pair of what we would call either soccer boots or just,

you know, like cleats. It were the mercurial mercurial vapor threes. And this is back in the day where like publicists would just kind of they would throw things at you.

You barely had to be famous at all. You know, pre-recession. And these cleats, guys, they, You know, and I've actually gotten many pairs of the MacGura Vapers since. None of them have been the same ever since.

Huh. Whoa. And I'm just telling you, like, I really do feel like it's the one pair of shoes ever wear. It felt like it actually improved my performance. Like, I really valued those shoes. Wow. You know, if we get enough people on our bandwagons for all these three things, I think we could bring it back.

You know, Whole Foods did this. They discontinued, like, a very fan. name is Barry Chantilly cake that every had like a cult following and um they changed the recipe and enough people complained on TikTok like it went viral on TikTok that they changed it back yeah so come on crushies guys we have to focus whose thing we're going to get back we can't do I mean I think mine is the most realistic yeah not even dressed in green in honor of her mink cookie smash no no no no it's fine I I'm happy to bring back a rice a rice patty rice burger

from McDonald's. Not a soccer shoe though, no. Well, yours, it sounds like you tried. It sounds like you went to the highest echelons. Yeah, and I know how we would bring yours back. I'm sure I could find a pair like on eBay or something like that. Does eBay still exist? Yeah.

Yeah. You're like, it's like, do you know how much a gallon of milk costs? You're like that scene in succession. $20? These days, actually, it's very close. Yeah. Yeah. No, I think, well, let's try for all three.

We just need a Kardashian to listen and post. Wait, I'm actually curious. Why does the eBay thing make me privileged and wealthy? Because eBay's like a great way to waste money. Well, it's just like you're not of this world. It's like you have other things. Like somebody else is searching eBay for you. Sure.

If you know Penn is absolutely not true. He doesn't have anyone doing anything. It's maybe his four-year-old is the other person searching things. He's going click, click, click on his screen. All right, well, today, let's get to our guests What people are here for They're not here for this nonsense We have Rachel Bilsen

Who you probably am guessing Know and Love from From the O.C Where she played Summer And then after that she went on famously To the Heart of Dixie And How I Met Your Mother But she is not only an actor

Rachel is a fellow podcaster She has a podcast called Broad Ideas with her co-host and great close friend Olivia Allen. They talk about relationships, mental health, sex, ghosts, and yet they never talk about sex with ghosts, which we get into... They're missing a niche. No, really, it's a really great podcast.

I couldn't recommend it more. We get into it all right after the break. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is by making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement. to your dog's day, pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair, beef mash, lamb, pilaf, and turkey and

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nutrient rich food, meat that looks like meat and veggies that look like veggies because shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lamb p laugh guy. Keep mealtime exciting with nom-num available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed. Spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. Why do we do what we do? What makes life meaningful? My name is Elise Lunan, and I'm the author of Honor Best Behavior and the host of the podcast, Pulling the Thread. I'm Pulling the Thread. I explore life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves, others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth.

Listen to Pulling the Thread from Lemonada Media wherever you get your podcasts. Who was Rachel at 12? How was she seeing the moment? world what was day-to-day life-like home school all that stuff you guys it's so it's such a crazy departure from i don't know if it's not not necessarily who i am today but like 12 is that sixth grade seventh grade it's depends on seven it's a bit different for everybody but yeah so seventh grade like you left elementary school and you went to junior high now this was a big deal okay i went to walter read i don't know if you i know the name i think i drove by it a lot.

Valley, Colfax, more park-ish. Oh, yeah, yeah. And, like, yeah. And it was a big deal. And you could wear makeup. And you had, like, different classrooms.

And you could buy nachos at recess and lunch, which were, like, the best. And at the time, it was like seven days, ninth, it was weird. Like, they still had ninth grade

in junior high, even though that's high school. It's changed now. I was not a great student. I hung out with some questionable people. I have an older brother is four years older. And I was just obsessed with hanging out with him and his friends and wanting to grow up super fast. And, like, the acting, all that didn't really hit me until high school.

Because in junior high, you know, we were kids that, like, would, like, go try to camp out on the beach where you're not allowed to. And the police would, like, wake you up at 4 in the morning. And my mom wouldn't know where I was. And, like, you know, just really kind of do. You kind of far from there, too. Yeah, no, it was far. And it was freezing. Let me tell you.

I've never been more cold in my life than, like, sleeping on a beach. ill prepared um at 12 years old but yeah i'm like we were just like going around doing this kind of stuff and my dad at the time i think he had some shows going in jankover maybe so he wasn't really around and like my mom but i was just so obsessed with hanging out with like the cool kids and it turned into like definitely going down the wrong path uh before i started high school you know just like smoking weed and like doing all you know trying that too early now that I'm a parent and Penn I know you have yeah you know you're like whole if my daughter even like thinks about any of this before she's 35 years old um I'm gonna be like yeah I just like was growing up

super fast um and what happened was like I was definitely hanging out with, like, the wrong people. I'm a little older at this point. This is, like, my first year of high school, hanging out with some questionable dudes, getting a horrible car accident, right? And it was a blessing in disguise because it kind of, like, shifted my trajectory after that happened. And I really committed to, like, theater and pursuing that in high school and had the most amazing acting teacher.

She was fantastic. And I know, like, Rami Malik and I were in class together, and he was the lead in all the plays that we were doing. And in high school, you were like, oh, this guy's, this guy's really good. But it was, like you said, like in the Valley, surrounded by the entertainment industry, there were a lot of people at that school that were kind of either actors or family who were in the business and whatnot, so... And that isn't a performing art school, though, is it?

No. It's actually probably more known as an athletic school, like football, baseball. But at the time, and I don't know now how the drama department is, but it was this really special, special thing with our teacher. Yeah, it, like, saved me. Like, it just... I really gave my mom and my dad a few heart attacks. What were your parents' reactions?

How were they relating to you at that time? Like you were saying, you were kind of getting in with the wrong crowd, hanging out with the wrong people. Did they have a sense of that? And were they trying to influence you in a different way? Or what was their reaction? It's interesting. Like, my mom was a single mom. And myself, you know, being a single mom, I now can kind of relate and know sometimes it's easier to just be like,

like you try your best right and my mom was always very open with me like the sex talk before i even knew anything like literally when your mom comes in was she was she a sex therapist is that accurate it's not like the actual term but she is a counselor and specializes in that area like in her house are there commissutra you know pictures hanging yes like has my daughter questioned it Yeah, no, which is also interesting, but very, very open. You know, coming to me, like, the night after I lost my virginity to talk to me about sex, I'm like, how did you know? Like, shit is new. But it was always very open.

But, yeah, like, kind of also giving me pretty free reign, sort of, and my brother, which, and I don't know, like I said, like now, knowing sometimes it's just easier. than disciplining when you're on your own. But not to say I'm totally on my own, like Breyer's dad's completely involved in their life. But my dad was busy. But it's just interesting to kind of understand how you can sort of let certain things go. Of course. No, look, I mean, we need a lot of partners,

not just one to parent well. I want a commune, you guys. Like, I want to build a compound. I want to get families. Like, someone's doing the cooking. Like, whatever. I am all about it. You need a village, basically, is what we want.

100%. Yeah. I think that's people had it right back in the day. You know? I think you're right, Rachel. Yeah. Yeah. I'm thinking about what you just said about your mom. And I'm thinking about, like, my middle school experience and what I hear from a lot of people.

And there's a lot of like shame and insecurity, particularly around sex at that time. And I'm curious for you who had like a mom that was really. open about it. If you felt like there was the difference between you and the other kids in terms of like feeling shame or insecurity around anything or on sex. Or were you still going through that like everyone else? No. I mean, like not really, you know, because I think about it. And we talk about it too, like on our podcast. Like it was so open and comfortable that all of that was like not there was no shame in it. You know, I mean, my mom was like, as long as you're, protected, uh, birth control, like all of that stuff was a big conversation. Um, but, and that's how

it should be. I think with young girls, if they're going to be sexually active, I think it's parents' responsibility to help guide them, you know, to the right thing and protect them. Um, and so yeah, it was never weird or never, you know, no, it's interesting. Because I don't think I've thought about it. Because you, as you say it, I'm like, I didn't have shame. It's so. amazing. Interesting. That's unique, I think. Because really, like, this period is, I think, characterized probably by more than anything. I don't want to rank it, but it's shame that has to do with sexuality is, I mean. Right. Yeah. Absolutely.

Who knows to your mother. I know. I saw this clip recently of Mel Robbins, who I know was on your podcast and Gabour Monte talking about an experience that she had. Maybe you guys have seen this clip. I think it's been making the rounds. but she tells him about a traumatic experience she had when she was in fourth grade and then he's questioning her about it and trying to get to like the root of of what was actually traumatizing for her of course the experience she went through was traumatizing in itself but he gets to the fact that actually the real trauma was that she

felt she couldn't talk about it with anyone she couldn't share it with their parents and so she kind of just went through it alone and he was saying that that's where the real wound is. And I thought that has made me, I have a little daughter and I'm not at the point yet where she's telling me things or even talking at all, but it did make me kind of spiral. Like, oh, how can I make sure that I'm creating an environment, even at this early stage where she feels like comfortable to come and talk to me about things? Because that's really going to be going to save her from so much. Like I felt I could talk to my parents about a lot, not everything. And the things I felt I couldn't talk to them about I think are the things that have like really stuck with

me. So I'm curious because your mom was so open with you and I guess made it so that you could be open with her. How are you with your daughter? So it's it's so funny because my daughter, you know, she's entering the age where it's like pre-puberty or starting or whatever. And so I think it's important to be like, talk about your period or I'm very open. She is a very young 10 and doesn't want to acknowledge that any of that stuff exists. You know, so I just like slip it in when I can. Actually, Penn, I saw an interview you did, and I loved this, that you acknowledged, like, you told, is just three or four? How old is your kid?

Four. Four. And you were, like, something, you were in a bad mood or something about him getting in his car scene. Oh, yeah. I said, I'm sorry, I think. Yeah, but like, but that's so, that's part of, like, all of this about the openness and acknowledging. feelings and like communicating it's all about communication and the fact i loved that because you like hey i'm sorry like and you and you explain like because it's being a parent is hard

it's since become a lot harder to say i'm sorry to him first and last time yeah because he's the real a hole a lot of times now sure i mean my best friend has two boys so i'm like i get it no But yeah, of course it gets harder. But it's all about communicating and it's about communicating feelings and how you're feeling. And I will say, even if she doesn't want to acknowledge that stuff, she is super great about talking about her feelings, you know, and emotions. And I do think that is definitely attributed to how open the household is.

Yeah. You know, and her parents just about talking about anything. And when she's ready, hopefully she'll be more open to taking in the other information. Rachel, not to bring you back to a terrible memory, but you mentioned your car accident. And in my research, I had read that it have affected your memory to this day. Is that true? What podcast are we doing? What's it called?

What a show are you on? It's so bad. It's so, so bad. But it's interesting. It's like a short-term memory thing where they'll be like, remember when we were here and we met this person and I'll have no recollection of being. at this place but if I see something on paper

or words or visually I can always remember it it's probably because even like lines in a script if I can like see it visually it stays or if I have to like you know learn about a guy that I'm dating or something for some reason I can remember all those

interesting things and who he dated and stores in your soul not your brain yeah no but it's so so bad and I have to like explain to people that it's not personal because there's so many times I'm sure everyone can relate to not remembering names

and stuff which is especially like at school right with like all parents and there's so many and like you know you've met them but like it's a real struggle but yeah I do preface it sometimes with like it's not you I have severe brain damage is it the car accident is the amount of weed in my youth I don't know

it's probably a combination but yeah it's a real thing I don't even remember the car accident, though, you guys, because of my head injury, it was like the last thing I can, like, see is the guy putting his hand on the wheel and that's a lot, and then I black out. So I don't remember the crash or anything like that, which is also a blessing. Yeah, it was kind of amazing. What was, I mean, if you don't mind, just because it was in this period of life. Like, what kind of impact? You said earlier that it was a bit of a blessing because it changed your trajectory. I guess maybe could you talk a little bit more about that? You know, what trajectory did you feel you might have been on? And how did that contribute specifically to you becoming a performer? The dudes that we were hanging out with were, they weren't really, they were like, um, taggers, you know, and, and not to say there's anything, I mean, some tigers are artists. No, some completely are.

Like, my brother's a graffiti artist, you know, and there is that version of it, but this was not that version of it. they must have been older i suppose right they were older for sure and you know just not the right people to hang out with to uh maybe guide you in or at least me the direction that i knew i wanted to go in and i think because of the car accident it kind of halted hanging out with those people um and then eventually just we stopped completely but it definitely was what really did it like physically literally like all of it was it so like was it such an incident or an event that you all felt like oh we shouldn't be hanging out or was there more like of a punishment consequence thing where you weren't allowed to hang out together well like the guys were really

badly injured in the accident so physically couldn't hang out uh and so that was really you know they're they're okay now i mean i say okay now they're they're alive yeah yeah i don't know i mean i haven't spoken to anyone uh 30 years but yeah so it was more of just like literally physically not allowing it to happen. So that was really a blessing, for sure. The naked. I was listening to an episode of your podcast, and I thought your broad ideas,

and I thought your theme song was so cute and so funny. And one of the lines in it was, you talk about the things you'll talk about and you say, we'll talk about boys who make us cry or make you cry. And I was curious if you could think back on this time of your life, adolescence, middle school, high school, and you could think of a story where a boy made you cry. Oh, my goodness. It was really prime boy cry time.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, when did they not? When did they not? And I definitely like. Penn, can you excuse yourself for this part of the interview? I have a funny story. So my first, quote unquote, boyfriend, this may have been fourth or fifth grade, okay? fifth grade maybe we're going a little back yeah that's fine it's great yeah it's in the pocket

it's in the wheelhouse uh he was my first boyfriend oh maybe he wasn't my first boyfriend whatever i'm getting it all mixed up i don't know uh i think he was and we all went to the movies and i think this is where i experienced my first panic attack we all went to the movies it was a group of us and my mom drove half the kids and my best friend's mom drove the other half and we're sitting in the movie theater and my boyfriend is sitting next to me and I was like I can't be here like I got to go I had a full-blown panic attack I don't know what it was about but there was something that made me so uncomfortable like I could not sit next to in this close proximity for that long in the dark with this boy so I made my mom like get me the fuck out of there and she was like

I can't leave debor with all these kids I'm like mom she has a van we're out uh And so we left, but I think, like, thinking back, I'm like, I think I might have been my first panic attack. And so that relationship didn't last. But then my sixth grade boyfriend, which is this absolutely is in the wheelhouse of middle school, was the first boy I had like a real kiss with, you know? And back in the day, we called it scamming. Did you? Oh, my goodness. I forgot about that.

Yeah. Okay, thank you. I never said it. But, yes. But like, it was a thing, right? Yeah. And I remember, like, going behind the line. library, and that was my first experience.

And after that, I felt like I could do anything. I went to six flags, and I was like, I'm going on those upside down roller coasters. And it was the first time I was able to ride an upside down roller coaster because I scammed with my boyfriend and felt like I was invincible. Yeah. Wait, what is scamming exactly? Is it just making out? It's just tongue kissing.

Okay, got it. Tongicing? I don't know. I was like, is it tricking someone into it? It should be. I mean, that's what it sounds like. I feel like they call it something else nowadays. There's so many new words and things.

I'm sure, have you been introduced to like Skibbidi in Ohio and Riz and all these things? You're not there yet. Yes, but Skibbitty and Ohio, I don't, I feel like you've made that up. I wish I did. We have another classic question. Speaking of Tricky Age, which is just like a standout embarrassing story or awkward memory. Okay. I have a few.

definitely have a few of those I remember since I brought up six flags I remember going with my boyfriend at the time and our friends wearing very short shorts guys very short shorts guess what doesn't

stay hidden when you wear short shorts tampon strings tampon strings another callback to your theme song that's right I clearly talk about tampon strings not a lie

But it was like hanging out of my shorts But now I think back You know, you get older And you're like, who cares? But at the time It was all embarrassing I was walking around six flags Just tampon strong

Did you find out in a picture? Did someone point it out to you? How did you find out? It was pointed out Thankfully it wasn't pulled out That would have been like, hey I'm making your attention Sorry guys, I'm a little graphic

No, that's amazing That would have been really interesting I'm just sitting there like, what just happens? Oh, no, I've, are you kidding on this show? It's like my wife's a doula, female body coach. Oh, okay. My wife's a doula, I hear about like, um... Is she really?

That's amazing. Yeah, no, and it's just, it's... I have driven one of her clients in a moment. I don't remember what the circumstances, why, but I drove someone, um, in labor to the, to, to the hospital. And I had to do that thing where, yeah, we're going through the midtown tunnel and the traffic terrible. I actually put down the window and I was like, I have a woman laboring in the back seat. Oh, my God.

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okay so we were on embarrassing story before we move on to that real quick. I did, you know, you did say, you did say, you were mentioning this, this kind of like first panic attack. And I'm just remembering, like, I wouldn't have labeled it as such, but my first memory of being in a movie theater with a girl that I'm supposed to be on a date with and that we're supposed to be, like, what do you do at a movie theater? We're all just like, well, obviously what you do in movies is you make out. Right. But then, you know, no one knows exactly how to cross that threshold and it's like actually you kind of want to watch the movie and there's no real I just remember. Of course Ben does. I just remember going and being like the entire

time I like couldn't focus. I'm just like when like it was so stressful. So stressful. I think we're really on to something. Actually I'm curious how many people if we ask like the first time you were in a movie theater with someone that you did whatever how did you feel yeah i would bet you it's basically all that you know panic attacks all around and we're just following the social script for it you know we're just like right that's what you do this is what you do in the movie theater that had to it but yeah fucking terrifying but that and you know someone takes me behind the library and suddenly you love it suddenly yeah well the both of you are in you know have been in the Josh Schwartz universe.

You mean Nava and? Yeah, Nav and Rachel. No, but I heard Rachel that you said kind of jokingly that with Josh, you had to be careful because anything that you had to be careful what you said around him because he would kind of use things from your real life and bring them into like your character's storyline, which I thought was so interesting. And I know we've talked about that with Penn and one of his co-stars from Gossip Girl. and that line becoming kind of blurry of like real life

and the character that you're playing and I had I guess had two questions one like how did you manage to keep summer separate from Rachel did you and then also for the both of you like can you think of specific things where Josh brought things from your real life into your character

well pen is gossip girl because he gossiped so much all the time right Did they know from the beginning? No, I definitely did not know. I didn't think so. Wait, I'm in the last episode of Gossip Girl. You are. You are.

Yeah, it's amazing. See my memory. Guys. I have not remembered that until, you know, I mean. This is the second. Me either. Yeah. Yeah, K-Bell was like, she came to, like, I was doing hard as like, she came to the set.

She's like, we're just going to film this last scene with me or whatever scene it was. It was in the last episode. Yeah. I know. I've still never met, Kristen. What? Yeah. Stop.

She, maybe she would have, she might, if we have, it was only very much in past. Yeah. That's crazy to me that you haven't met her. She's your voice. Girl ended, I know. So weird, you sound so different. She lives inside of him. A little girl inside of you.

Yeah. For me, like, Summer probably never would have loved the Golden Girls. had Josh not, like, taken things from your life? You know, I've remembered that for sure. And Penn, I know you can relate. As far as, like, the melding and whatever, like, I was in a relationship with my love interest. You were in a relationship, obviously, during the show. And so lines do kind of get blurred because you're living together, you're working together, you know, like, or basically living together.

And it kind of all becomes, like, just one thing. Yeah. Healthy. It's actually amazing. How many parallels you two have? I know. You're both on Josh Schwartz's shows. You were both like the leads in your shows.

You were both the lead romantic things. You were dating your co-stars. I didn't think about the next. It's crazy. You both had to do wedding scenes after you broke up with the other person. Oh, right. Yeah. Penn, I had no idea how connected.

I remember that. Oh, my God. Yeah. Like our wedding scene was right after we broke up. I'm pretty sure. How was that for you, Rachel? you know what I remember saying were you getting married you're saying

no but on the show no that's what I mean your characters are getting married yes the characters were getting married yes the characters were getting married yeah and I feel like for you guys that was way more in depth ours was like an afterthought it was like it was like literally a shot in

the last episode whereas you guys had like a very it was a full on wedding yeah and it was like you have all these emotional scenes right yeah I think you're right I'm gonna say yes that is correct this is where the memory my car coming into play now

I had to watch I had to do a rewatch podcast of the OC and you guys do you know every episode I was like what like there's a character that dies not Marissa like I remember that Marissa dies of course Misha's character but there was another character that died like the grandpa Caleb and I was like he died like it was so they're like

Josh is like Rachel you were on the show you should know that but yeah we had like a full wedding scene after and I just remember saying the wardrobe like I don't want to wear what I would actually wear at my wedding because I feel like that's weird so if you could just like find a dress that I wouldn't wear like it was just like this weird mental thing and you know Adam and I still got along though really well and to this day which is nice and you know I'm always like supportive I mean he's doing awesome obviously right now and I just you know think it's great but it is interesting how the how long did you guys work after you broke up though was it go on for a couple seasons about a half of the show I mean it was pretty early it was earlier I mean it was yeah

like we did a lot of it to the point that it's hard to remember anything other than the first few like weeks after you know like

I don't think of being yeah it just seems like we lived so much life on both sides of it right you know what you mean that it's like

it just kind of evens out that makes sense because like yeah we made it to like almost the very end you know Right. That's a little different. And the show didn't go on as long as gossip. What did gossip? How many seasons did you back soon? We had six. But it was kind of like five and a half. We did, I think, 10 episodes.

The last season. Yeah. You guys actually had that surprising thing where you kind of called it when you were at. It was like still kind of, it was doing really well. And like, right? Yeah. And we kind of knew it was the last season at the fourth season, which, yeah. They only went four seasons. I know. Everyone says that has such a big cultural impact. Yeah. It was four seasons. seasons. They would never do that now. No. No.

You know, we were doing like what? The first season we did like 27 episodes. Yeah. Like, could you imagine? Yeah. What do you do with you? Ten. Yeah.

Yeah, no. But, you know, Gossip Girl was 26. Right. I know. It was the same. Which is, it's imagine doing that now with kids. I have one more sort of since you guys were in the same cinematic universe. Just a question for both of you.

Just a silly little question. who, which characters, I'll ask Rachel first, which OC character do you think would have done the best plucked into the gossip girl world and which gossip girl character do you think would have done best plucked into the OC world? Oh my God, that's tough. Well, you couldn't put Seth or Ryan

in the gossip girl world, I feel like. No? I feel like, you think so? I feel like it's one of the girls. I feel like it's Marissa. I feel like Seth would have been Dan. That's the joke. I mean, they were the same character.

The same. It was like the George Ward stand in for, you know. Yeah. Totally. I think Marissa. I don't, but I think Marissa. I don't know if that's me thinking because Misha grew up in New York and like was very much like actually probably more a part of that scene. I don't know if that's why I think it.

But I think I'm just going to go Marissa. I'm not going to put summer in her bikinis there because. No one needs that. She's just to California. And then who do you think from Gossip Girl might have fit in to the O.C.? I feel like, Penn, you have to help me with this. I don't know. Who would you ship off to the O.C.?

Yeah, well, we didn't really watch each other's shows. Did we? Like, I mean, that's where I'm like, I'm kind of struggling to know here. Let's see. We have to end to this, never. New Yorkers, New Yorkers just are better than California? There I say. I'm not going to disagree, and I'm from here.

So. No, no. I think, I mean, I think Dan could, is different enough that he could fit a little bit better than Seth could. Do you feel like Dan is Seth's cousin? Yeah, I feel like Dan could fit in as like a relative of Seth. Or Eric, for some reason, Serena's little brother, I feel like could fit into the, I don't know why, but I feel like that character could fit in. Who played? Who played him?

Do I know who played him? His character's name was Eric, right? Yeah. What was the actor's name? Connor. Yeah. I feel like he could have fit in. Well, you know, Peter Gallagher's character.

was from New York on the O.C. Wasn't he? Sandy. Send him back. I mean, from New, yeah, he's from me. Whatever. Anyways. Who do you think, Sophie? We watched both, right?

I think, I keep thinking Serena Vanderwoodson because it's just the blonde hair. She just looks like she can be. We're just swapping Marissa. Yeah, that could work. They are the same show. There's like a true. There's like the same.

It's totally. It's totally true. I mean that was the thing They were like There's no check bass There's no check bass comparable I think He's kind of unique Yeah

No one can compare to check bass Did he want to one? I mean I was actually gonna say I mean he was a billionaire right Wouldn't he just do best I'm not like that true He was a billionaire?

I think so Wow Bass Industries Oh family man He was the inheritor Guys he killed his own father What Is it?

Probably He came back Wait, he killed his father on the show All I know is his dad is hanging from a ledge All we know is Penn can never have a rewatch podcast All I know is that his father is hanging from a ledge And he either like scar Like did something with his head

Oh he'd let him fall Did he step on his hands? The world may never know and then his ghost visited him I'm sorry I'm sorry what I don't remember Josh was you know having fun He was playing around at this point His ghost like actually you see his ghost

Yeah well I mean so so actually you know Credit to the writers I think it was it was it was a device where he's like In lieu of therapy because the because young Chuck Bass was really struggling He was having like these sort of hallucinations You know struggling you know struggling the shame and that's actually very relatable but then but then i believe um it was it was ghost of ghost of of bass ghost so i think he was called gob ghost of christmas bass sorry that's good that's good sorry guys but then anyway he uh then he came back somehow he was proven to not be dead so anyway

wait he oh he actually comes back yeah i'm just having all the it's like my memory is so selective with the show. Sometimes I remember something and I'm like, oh, it opens up a whole portal. It's crazy, right? Yeah, it really is. I know. Welcome to the Mild World. Rachel, you're so funny, and you're so funny in Heart of Dixie.

I love you. I love that show. I loved you in that show. It's so charming. And I'm wondering if you could just share like a happy memory from set or from that time in your life. I have, you know what? I loved doing that show. It was the best. And the whole cast and crew was so much fun. We filmed the pilot in Wilmington, North Carolina,

and then we shot the entire show on the Warner Brothers lot, which was like so easy. It was great. When we were shooting the pilot is kind of a funny story. You know, I was working a ton. We're in the back swamps, and there's an alligator who was like a character on the show. Oh, that's right, yeah.

Bert Reynolds. And we had an actual alligator when we were shooting the pilot, and it was like a night shoot. So it's like three in the morning. morning and I have to fall into the mud when I see this alligator and like George Tucker comes and like rescues me. So I get home at like 5.30 that morning after shooting all night and I go in the bathroom and I'm like, what, what is this on my back? And I feel it and there's a tick. I'm so tired from the night shoot. I'm like, well, I got to go to sleep. I leave. I'm kidding.

I leave the tick. I just ignore it because I was so tired. I know. This is like, No, no, it makes sense. It's how tired you are. And also, back then, nobody was talking about Lyme disease. I was going to say, is this how you tell us you have Lyme's disease? And this is how I have my awareness month. No, but you know, you're just so tired. I'm like, whatever.

I was like 28, 20, I don't know. And I go to sleep. And then I wake up the next day, and we have a medical tech on set because I'm playing a doctor. I should never play a doctor. And he's there, and I'm like, I have. have a tick on me. I pulled it out this morning. Can you just like prescribe me the medicine to ensure I won't get Lyme disease? So I didn't know about Lyme disease. Yeah. And I'm like, and also, and he's like kind of this weird dude. And I'm like, can you also prescribe me a prescription

for a yeast infection? Because I know I'm going to get it once I take these antibiotics for Lyme's disease. I had to have the med tech who was on set, who wasn't like my doctor or the doctor in town, get me the medicine after I waited and did not take off my tick for 12 hours or whatnot. And then when I did, I was like, I need this medicine so I don't have Lyme disease or a use infection. Thank you so much. That's my story, guys. You knew, you knew, like, I'm impressed.

I was playing a doctor, pet, okay? I was like, listen, I'm not fucking around. Method acting. I know. I know what's up. I can diagnose people now. I'll be like you guys I play a doctor on TV

I got this You for sure Have ex what they're saying Did you meet Bert Reynolds No Oh that was the name of the alligator Yeah yeah did you meet the alligator Because you said you guys did film with one

Oh yeah he was in the scene with me Yeah was that scary He was in the tick scene No no He wasn't I mean there was a handler there I wonder if it was just like Let him lose maybe

Yeah I felt very comfortable It was very nice Alligator handler But yeah I don't even know what the question was that you guys asked me Like a fun sweet memory from Heart of Dixie Wasn't that a sweet one?

Yeah Yeah Right, yeah And fun A real sweet one Infection, Lyme disease Is not where I thought you were going to go with it I mean you never know where

We had tampon strings and lime disease Keep us on our toes You never know Yeah I know there were a lot of stories I mean we all like hung out a lot which was nice on that set. And I know there are stories.

It's so hard to be floating around. Yeah. Right? If they asked you, like, what was the funniest thing that happened on the set of gossip girl? Could you come up with something? No.

I would have to think for a bit. Yeah. And it's like that awkward silence of like, maybe I'll get there, maybe I won't. Yeah. So, yeah, so you guys, if you ever have a tick on your body

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Your podcast brought ideas. Maybe can you share with us how you came, like what was the impetus? What's the Genesis story for broad ideas? Um, yeah, go ahead. I, um, I did armchair expert and, uh, the producer on the show, I told a story. Now, I told a story that I did not intend for it to go as big and wide as it did. Um, and the producer on the show was like, oh, she talks shit. she should have her own show.

So the producer on Armchair was like, do you want to do a podcast? And at the time, I was doing the OC rewatch podcast. And that was like my first dive into like podcasting or whatever. I'm like, sure, but can I bring my best friend with me? He was like, okay. So that's basically how it happened was just that I opened my mouth and said, you know, a story that went very far and wide.

And that's how it happened. Your podcast came out the same week, or broad ideas came out the same week that Pod Crushed came out May of 2022, which is crazy. Oh, shit. Yeah. That's crazy. But I was thinking, okay, so we know like around the time that you've been doing this and telling these stories on broad ideas. And I'm curious if over that time you've gotten less, like you said, you kind of were approached to do this because you were open and telling this. story that they were surprised you told but do you feel like over the hundred or whatever episodes you've that's changed or have you been able to maintain that openness it's changed it's changed

completely i think i've talked about this too and i don't know penn if you've ever said something and you're like oh shit like i shouldn't have said that um constantly regretting but you're probably smartest we're like edit that out um i like you know because i grew up in such an open household, right? In my mom or whatever, like, I'll talk about things very openly. Even if I'm saying something in a joking manner, like, we were talking about, like, sex position on an episode, and I had a job taken away because I said, which has been out there. I'm like, if I say it again, is it going to happen again? I don't know. Like, okay, whatever. And it was like kind of eye-opening. I'm like, oh, my God, like,

you say anything about sex and it kind of goes. There's actually two instances where this happened on my podcast where I'm like in a conversation with someone and I'm actually like reacting to what they're saying but you know they take the one thing that I say. It's like Rachel Billson opens up about blah blah blah. Oh yeah, 100%. And I'm like, oh my God. And so I have noticed that I filter myself a lot more. And I'm aware of like maybe cut that out, do this or that.

And it does kind of suck because I don't think anything that I have said is necessarily wrong or controversial, definitely not controversial, like talking about like orgasms or whatever it is. And it's like... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I know, and now I'm canceled. And a female orgas?

Only if they're female. Exactly. In the Disney program. Right? I know. I know. So, but it's been... I don't enjoy like when things get spread everywhere in the wrong context in the wrong way.

So I definitely find myself like filtering myself a little more. I don't know if it seems that from our talk tonight that. I really appreciate that. I mean, I'm not famous and this isn't the same, but we wrote a book together. And there's an essay that I wrote that I'm really proud of that I really love. But I asked my publicist, not my publicist, I asked up my editor. I was like, if I publish this essay, can I just have one of the criteria be that they can't ask me about it? Like just that that one essay is off limits. And she said, if you're not willing to talk about it, you can't publish this essay. So I'm not publishing it. And I feel like sad about it because it is my favorite, but I also

know that it's like the only thing people will ask me about and so I'm like I just don't want that to be the thing that everyone's like oh that's the only thing we care about that she wrote right no but it's like also protection of yeah yourself and it's a fine line it's just so interesting what it's obviously a crazy world especially right now and it's just it's hard and you have a podcast so you want people to feel like it's super relatable and And they want to listen because, yeah, you're real, which I'm not saying I'm not. It's just a fine line. You have to hold some boundaries.

Yeah. In that spirit, if you're comfortable talking about it, so I knew nothing about this, by the way. I don't know if that gives you hope or despair, but I knew nothing about what has been referred to as the bling ring. I knew nothing about your own theft. I actually learned all about it listening to your podcast. Oh, really? That's so funny. And so I actually thought it was really interesting that you had them on your podcast.

Mm-hmm. You know, and very early on. Yeah. So I just thought the fact that you had these two sisters who were involved in the thefts of your home, that there's just a lot happening in, you know, to me, that was like an interesting portal into something. And not necessarily like the mind of Rachel Bilsen, but it's a portal to something, you know. And I thought it was really commendable. Oh, thanks. very um for anybody who hasn't heard it uh i think it's a really interesting episode just because

you guys go to just to so many depths it's sort of like a it's sort of like a like a public therapy session far more i think people refer to oh it's like therapy like no no this is like actual therapy like mediated somewhat officially by your friend livia by your car yeah i mean you know and i'm asking any of this in the spirit of Like, you know, it was three years ago since that conversation, and it had been many years since the actual events. So you've just had time to reflect on that. You don't need to share anything. Oh, yeah, no, I'm totally can.

Yeah. So, okay, so I'm actually really interested in this kind of, this may go back to adolescence, it may not. But in the beginning, very early on, your co-host, Olivia, is very fiercely supportive of you, you name, and everybody's kind of talking about that, like, basically, you're having to try not to comfort your guests who are people who are I'm forgetting specifically I think were they both actually in your home

or only one of them was again I think one of them had entered your home and one of them says she hadn't they had it yeah I think that's right but they were both involved but one says she didn't enter your home what I also learned is that like first of all I don't even think I realize that the bling ring was a real thing

and then you thought it was a Sophia Copeland movie Well, I just, I'm not sure. I've heard of it. I think there, guys, I think there was a gossip girl episode about the bling ring. I think that was, or was there a show about it? Oh, my God. There was a movie with Emma Watson. No, no, no, but there was a movie.

There was some other, there's a bling ring reference in the show. I think that, anyway, whatever. That probably is. Regardless. So I learned a lot. I was like, oh, there was this whole thing. It's something that I didn't know. I really didn't know.

but I really thought it was interesting in the beginning like you and your friend are kind of naming this thing like I have to not comfort them I'm not going to people you know yeah yeah and then you've also said that motherhood has really influenced changed this quality of yours that you call people pleasing and of course everybody can identify with it in some way right so I'm just curious like what

this is broader not just bad blingering involved but like I'm curious because it's so relatable for people can you share maybe where you are in your journey with with what we call people pleasing and like yeah that is it's interesting because like you bring up you know the blingering thing specifically and going into that and obviously your maternal side and everything I wanted to be like you guys this was so long ago like you have to let it go right like so that's a big thing and that my mom has really instilled me like my whole life is letting go acceptance all of that especially like when it comes to things like that with material possessions like

always just like those are material things they don't matter can you be sad about certain things for a bit yes do you eventually let it go absolutely have i been robbed more than the five times from the bling ring yes had to do a whole other process of letting go um so it puts you in an interesting position with that but yeah as far as people pleasing i think it has a lot to do with boundaries, and as you get older, you kind of learn how to apply them for yourself. It has never been an easy thing for me. But being a mom, like, there is nothing that I won't do to protect my kid, right? And so there are hard boundaries with her, people with her, like all of that. So that comes into play. But also just for yourself, as you get older, you just realize, like,

it is interesting because they always tell you, you know, you get older, you get wiser. you're like oh there's truth to that like it's just certain things don't matter in the grand scheme of things you know you have your family their health um all of it i still people please like i definitely catch myself because it's hard to break that habit but the more i think you can work on boundaries whatever they are for yourself um it really helps kind of eliminate the people people-pleasing aspect inside yourself. Not saying it's easy. But I'm curious, Rachel, because I would imagine that at that time, and you can correct me

if I'm wrong, because they burglarized you five times because you were out of town. I was out of town. Yeah. They even pooped in my bathroom, which was like my biggest takeaway from the whole thing. I was like, that's more offensive. That's wild. It sounds like they stole like all of your valuable possessions. Yeah.

And I'm curious of having to detach from that. helped you detach from any, like, I don't know if spiritual is the right word, but like if there was other detachment that you had to do besides just like a detachment from material possessions, from that experience specifically. Oh, God. I mean, a lot of it was detaching from those things for sure. Working on like detaching from the feeling of not feeling safe, I think was a big thing. So invasive.

I mean, it's really awesome. It's so invasive. Yeah. You know, and feeling like, I got to sell this house. I can't live here. You know, and then kind of overcoming that and acknowledging that you are safe or, you know, but it's just like this energy and this feeling of like such violation within your space, like your safe space. So that was probably a big part of it.

But yeah, and they were just kids. And we were. distracted kind of to hear the first of all that it was all real and that like just circumstances that led to it I was like yeah I know and I was always like I mean like Paris Hilton whatever I'm like and me like why me I was just like come on come on guys and I think you know either someone had my shoe size or whatever it was I have tiny feet it's not very common but yeah I was like it was just such a weird incident and I remember the time that I learned that they're making a movie about it I was like hold on it's kind of glorifying in it a way or in my mind I thought it was and I never saw the movie so I don't know what it was like or how they portrayed it um but I just remember being like why pretty hot yeah no I don't know I don't think you're like the sex scenes are yeah in your bed yeah and they show the shitting scene it's like all full in circle

yeah I you know but it's definitely like a great lesson in letting go because I had zero ill feelings towards these women who were so young at the time and that were still holding so much I was like you guys got to let it go you know that's a lot about you Rachel I mean that's amazing well I was actually going to ask you know because I think you're sort of giving the answer there but um I thought it was interesting there's a moment where and you're really really not saying a lot, which you know, these girls are women at this point, are

unpacking a lot, explaining a lot. Your co-host and friend Olivia is really sort of like moderating, facilitating, mediating. And it's really interesting. It is really interesting. But, you know, there's one point where you kind of brush off an apology and everybody there is like, no no like let us do this and and they apologize and it sounds like it's much harder for them

to be you know and you're sort of reinforcing that now but i'm curious because you've now had a few years what did that apology from them mean to you if anything i think it was more for them than me because they had held on to it for so long and they needed to feel better about what they had done where I had moved on long ago from it so I guess it's kind of like okay like that's nice that you're acknowledging it like I you know it was definitely just for them sure yeah you know what I mean yeah well I mean to be fair in them telling their story they're suffering so much so intensely so yeah I mean it's not they're you're suffering and theirs and what you lost and what they they're not equal it sounds like just going through such

time and they're admittedly really tumultuous lives so they were kind of is that what is that what inspired you to have them on I mean what did inspire you to have them on you know I thought it would be like a really good conversation and facing something uncomfortable and doing something a little outside the box, email, it just felt like it would be an interesting conversation, which I think it was. Yeah. No, it was. It really was.

And again, I recommend it to anybody. And assuming that it's not uncomfortable for you because you've kept it on your, on your feed. Definitely not uncomfortable. I think you can tell it, not many things make me uncomfortable. It's amazing. I think that's so, that must be so rare to have an experience like that. and to have it publicly. I think it's rare in general to have an experience

where you're able to come full circle with an experience that you had. Like it's happened years ago, but then to be able to have that conversation, I feel like I can think of many people in my life where I'm like, hmm, it'll be nice to have a conversation, not publicly, but it would be nice to come back and touch back on this thing.

Have you had any other experiences like that in your life? I feel like, I'm sure, or especially in like relationships and then having that conversation you wish you could have had during the relationship. I think I've had that a little bit of like, especially in your youth when you just don't know what you're doing. And then you get older and you're like, hey, I'm really sorry about this incident or how this was handled or me not being mature enough to have this conversation or communicate properly. I think I've had those opportunities which I'm grateful for. Because like I said, you get older and you're like, oh, you can communicate. You can have boundaries and communicate. You can have these conversations.

And guess what? You're going to survive all of it, which has been a big lesson for me, who's always scared of any competition. Rachel, this is a pivot, but on your podcast, obviously you talk a lot about relationships, communication, sex, sexuality. And I'm curious, I think you've, You've said that you now feel like, you know, in the past, you didn't always say what you wanted. You didn't feel comfortable asking for what you needed.

That's something that really resonates. And I'm curious if you can just tell us what you've learned or some of your what you want in a partner. What are your favorite qualities in a partner? You know, it is interesting because you go through all these experiences and not being able to ask for what you want. And there's like PTSD with certain things and like all this shit. But it goes back to me being a kid, like talking about adolescents or that age. A mom getting me ready for, I was a little younger, getting me ready for like a dance or a performance with a curling iron and it was burning my ear and I didn't speak up, right? So it's a perfect example of like, I was literally burning and couldn't be like, oh, excuse me, you're burning my, you know, like felt like maybe it's the people pleasing, whatever it is.

But then you get older and you're like, get that fucking curling iron off my ear. but it's just important to advocate for yourself and whether and it's still hard for me still communicating your needs what you want whatever it's still a challenge but i've learned through experiences i have walked away multiple times from like the same person in the past right and it gets to the point where you're like i'm going to say what i want and if they can't do it i'm okay walking away because I have walked away and I see every time it might hurt you might go through whatever for a while but ultimately you're fine so again it has to do with boundaries like I keep saying all of it is just like you have nothing to lose in the real realm of things

so you have to speak up yeah otherwise you waste a lot of time it's so true how far back does your friendship with Olivia go and like I guess you know when you when you when you make a friendship professional there's yeah that are that you need to keep and you always I feel like with that you learn in real time yeah I'm just curious like what was the sort of origin story for you two so actually it's junior high um middle school whatever might be yeah no it is for sure Perfect for us. Yeah. This is actually why I'm here.

We're just going to end it right there. I remember seeing her in the yearbook. And the guy I liked was like obsessed with her. And I remember seeing her picture and I was like, that's the most stunning girl I've ever seen. But she looks like a fucking bitch. Like she looks so mean. This is an amazing story. She looked so mean.

She has these like eyes. She's the most incredible eyes. They're like green cat eyes. Okay. And I remember seeing her for the first time and I was like, fuck her. You know, I was like all mad because, like, the guy loved liked her. That was my first impression. But then we wound up all in the same groups and were instantly, you know, the same person.

And there's a group of us best friends that have been best friends since I, like, met them when I... They're two years older than me, but I met them when I was 13 because of my older brother. So we've known each other since I was 13. Wow. Okay. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Those are nice people.

And when did... I mean, did you go through seasons of... Because sometimes when you've known people that long, and if they're a little bit older, it's like, you know, you kind of like, oh, but then we were like in our 20s, we really, or have you just been close the entire time? We have all been really close. Olivia and I, in particular, had our, like, you know, she has been sober for 13 or 14 years. And I think there was a time where, like, that was the path she needed to take. You know, she's very open about this. She talks about this all the time.

I think there were times where, you know, we were a little off. And there were times where I was busy working or I spent a lot of time in Canada and, like, wasn't always here. But we were always close. And I think when she got pregnant with her first kid and I had just had mine, and we were always close, but this really brought us back to that, you know, mind meld to relationship. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. but yeah that's you know and you really are different people and so it's like you either grow together or you grow apart and we've been talking about this a lot how it's interesting like

what relationships or friendships you keep in your life as you get older and who actually grows with you i think that's the perfect perfect segue you brought us back to 12 i think that's the perfect segue for our final question yeah our final question great uh if you could go back to 12 year old Rachel, what would you say or do, if anything? Oh, man. What would I say or do? I would probably say maybe pay a little more attention in school

and not to the voice. Start collecting that Dr. Pepper Lipsmackers now because it's going to be gone. That's a great one. That one I'm actually very serious. about when I heard they were discontinuing it, I bought every single one I could find. That's another story.

And don't be afraid to speak up for yourself. I had to do one serious one. Yeah. That's great. That's so good. Love that. Thank you so much, Rachel. So nice talking to you guys. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining us.

You can listen to Rachel Bilsen on her podcast, Brad Ideas, online at Rachel Bilsen. Pod Crush is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navakavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our senior producer is David Ansari, and our editing is done by Clips Agency. If you haven't subscribed to Lemonada Premium yet, now's the perfect time, because guess what? You can listen completely ad-free. Plus, you'll unlock exclusive bonus content.

Like the time we talked to Luca Bravo about the profound effect that the film Into the Wild had on him. The conversation was so moving and you are not going to hear it anywhere else. Just tap the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts or head to Lemonada Premium.com to subscribe on any other app. That's Lemonada Premium.com. Don't miss out. And as always, you can listen to Pod Crush ad free on Amazon Music with your Prime Membership. Okay, that's all. Bye. Rachel, I'm going to give you one second break because I have two little dogs crying at the door. I'm going to let them in. Sorry, one second. They're so sweet. What kind of dogs? One, they're both dachshunds, isn't that how you did that?

I always thought there were two kinds of dogs, a dachshund, which I thought was spelled with an ex, and then a Dachshund, which was what I was said. I know, some people are like, it's a Dachshound? And I'm like, are you saying? It wasn't until very recently that I realized a dachshund and a Dachshund are the same thing. Stop it.