Podcrushed - Rainn Wilson

Episode Date: June 8, 2022

Rainn Wilson regales the group with stories of heartbreak, courage, and finding your footing when you *really* don't fit in. The cherry on top: he sings! Want to submit a middle school story? Go to www.podcrushed.com and give us every detail.  Follow us on socials: instagram.com/podcrushedtwitter.com/podcrushedtiktok.com/@podcrushed  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada Here's how intense it was. I had never been dumped before and oh my God, that is just the worst feeling in the world. I don't know why I did this, but I always used to throw my dirty clothes on the floor of this closet and I would sleep in my dirty clothes on the floor of the closet. Oh, Ray.

You were like literally like stewing in it. Yeah, and it was, I would do that. for days at a time. It must have been a big closet. I mean, you said you were tall, right? It was six feet long, yeah. Or you were really scrunched up. I'm just thinking about the dimensions of the closet.

There's a nice closet. I'm going to draw your sketch. This is Pod Crush. The podcast that takes the sting out of rejection, one crushing middle school story at a time. And where guests share their teenage memories, both meaningful and mortifying. And we're your hosts.

I'm Nava, a former middle school director. I'm Sophie, a former fifth grade teacher. And I'm Penn, a middle school dropout. We're just three beehis who are living in Brooklyn. Wanting to make stuff together with a particular fondness for awkward nostalgia. Well, I struggle with nostalgia. I'm here for the therapy. Guys, I'm actually drinking chicken soup.

I shouldn't have said drinking, should I have? But no, I have COVID. And I will say that chicken soup has felt like actual medicine. It feels like there's drugs in it. It makes me, like, sleepy and happy. And because your assistant smashes up Ambien, right? Oh, that's it. See, this is why I didn't get an assistant until recently.

I asked for uppers, not downers. Shout out, Charlie, the sweetest guy. I want to have a one-on-one talk with Penn's assistant. You're like, how are you? Are you okay? He's like, I'm fine. I barely even talk to me. But anyways, our guest today.

But anyways, our guest today is Rain Wilson. So Rain is, when you know him, it's really easy to forget this. But he's a low-key icon and is known for, I mean, a lot of, I think, very memorable roles and some pretty iconic comedies like Galaxy Quest. Sir, I am Lank, senior requisition officer. Juno. Third test today, Mama Bear. Urego is Prego, no doubt about it.

And the rocker... Yeah, bouncing it down! Woo! What does that mean? I have no idea. Let's take five. But none, none is beloved or globally iconic, as Dwight Shrewt in the U.S. version of the office.

What is the most inspiring thing I ever said to you? Don't be an idiot. Changed my life. Whenever I'm about to do something, I think, would an idiot do that? And if they would, I do not do that thing. We actually drove two Raines home to have the interview. and we had a lot of gear. And Sophie's husband, David,

was initially one of the hosts of the show, and he was also the engineer. And David was, like, the only one who knew how to set everything up. So we get to Rain's house. We go to his office. It's kind of a small space. We were like a battalion funneling into his office.

And David is setting things up as Rain is watching in, like, wonder and disgust, sort of simultaneously. Like, why are there so many people in my office? Why is there so much gear? Why are there so many hosts? Because he recorded like three or four different podcasts, and he's just like, he's got a mic and he's set up and he's all good, you know? And Rain goes, wow, this is an intense setup.

And Penn kind of like trying to diffuse the energy. It was like, actually, you know, it looks like a lot. It's not actually a lot. And Rain, there's a pause and he just goes, no, it's a lot. But, but Rain was super lovely in the interview. And then at the end of the interview, he brought us all bags of macadamriam. nuts that he grows on his farm. Yeah, those macadamia nuts are amazing.

And needless to say, David quit as a host. Today's story is a story of growth, of humility and grace and... And, not for nothing, of a kind of male intimacy. I don't know. I love it. With no further ado, we bring you dancing with the devil in the details. Does anyone else... ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored. And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time everything it can be

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Serve nom nom nom as a complete and balanced meal or as a tasty and healthy addition to your dog's current diet. my dogs are like my children literally which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best hold on let me start again because I've only been talking about louis louis is my bait louis you might have heard him growl just now louis is my little baby and I'm committed to only giving him the best I love that nom nom nom recipes contain wholesome nutrient rich food meat that looks like meat and veggies that look like veggies because shocker they are louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough. So he's a lamb-peelaf guy. Keep mealtime exciting with nom-num available at your

local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. Why do we do what we do? What makes life meaningful? My name is Elise Loonen and I'm author of On Our Best Behavior and the host of the podcast, Pulling the Thread. I'm pulling the thread. I explore life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves, others, and the world around us. I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to Pulling the Thread from Lemonada Media wherever you get your podcasts. If this were wrestling, it would be God, giving my ego, a leg drop off the top rope. Now let's back up and set this story up a bit, okay? I grew up in the knuckle

of the hood. You either had to be able to fight or, well, actually, I'm not sure what other option you had. So now here I am a young, angry sixth grader who had been dropping these little demons since I was born. I took karate and had a bunch of older cousins, so it was some hood Bruce Lee type shit. So I had no fear of any kid on the block. Needless to say, this isn't a story about how badass I was so you know where we're heading. But don't jump ahead. head because the devil is in the details so one day at recess there were a bunch of eighth graders playing football and we're out there on concrete for context so cTE was as common as breathing and here i am doing nothing in the corner of the courtyard and i feel a ball smack the back of my young precious head

i turn around i see exactly go through it so there's only one option i run up to my man remember he's twice as big as me and I'm about to leg sweep him on the ground, but as I'm going at him, he somehow Uno reverses me and manages to dip me like I'm his tangled partner, nestling my small head in his big old hand

as he whispers. My bad, bro. Heartbeats. Yeah, no problem, man. Heartbeats. I cried that night. That's the part of the story I don't tell. In my eyes, every kid I ever beat was every kid I couldn't touch.

So when I ran up to that bearded eighth grader, to me, I'm really running up to a man who'd beat me for looking at him in the eyes too long. I don't know how, but he saw me. He saw this coming at him. And what I got was a double black belt move in compassion, Chuck Norris of emotional maturity. I can't even look at the keyboard too long without. feeling anxiety, hence the days it took me to write this. I'm better now, or at least mildly taller. That day in sixth grade, I received grace from a kid that didn't know me, but for me,

it was the first time I'd gotten it from the person I imagined I was fighting. Rain, thank you so much for welcoming us into your home so we can welcome you to our podcast. That's a lot of welcoming, but you are most welcome. Thanks. So can you tell us a little bit about what 8th grade reign was like what he was thinking about? Oh, dear Lord. Dear Lord, 8th grade reign. Well, it's very funny that you mentioned 8th grade because just the other day I found some old papers

and I found a story I wrote when I was in the 8th grade for creative writing class. it's sitting in the other room on my wife's desk. It's called Sword of the Usurper. Wow, very sophisticated. I was really into like fantasy and science fiction, and so I wrote my first fantasy story. So now I'm going to read it to you. No, but yeah.

So, you know, it's so funny you bring this up because as we were kind of getting ready for this conversation, I was just thinking about how different middle school was for me. in the late 70s than it is right now. It was, there were kind of like bloody beat downs in the hallways

at least once a week if not two or three times a week. Oh, that still happens. I'm pretty sure that still happens. I don't know. Not the same way. I don't know. I'm Staten Island it does.

I have some stories for you. Okay. All right, all right. Yeah, I don't, none of my son's friends or anyone I know has he ever even seen a fight in a hallway. So I'm sure there are places.

But that was such a regular part of life of like seeing teeth fly out of people's mouths and blood on lockers. And the teachers would come out like, come on, kids, go to the principal's office. They'd kind of like, it just was like de rigour. You know, it's like, oh, here we go again. And the kid is like an eyes hanging out of their socket, you know. And they're like, oh, just go to the principal's office. But I, so eighth grade, Rayne Wilson was about as big a geek as you could possibly imagine. I was on the pottery club.

I was on the chess team. I would play Dungeons and Dragons all weekend long. And I played clarinet and bassoon in the band. and yeah, and it went on from there and then I went to high school and joined Model United Nations and the computer club. I mean, it was, yeah, I was completely,

and there was nothing cool about being a nerd back then that was like you were a loser. Nerds were just losers. There was not like any nerd rock stars or nerd billionaires or Silicon Valley or people with Twitch channels or, you know, gamers or anything. You just, and you were a nerd and you were just the worst.

Oh, man. Sorry. And so, yeah, so, but that was, but I loved it. You know, I loved my nerdy friends and I loved, you know, doing nerdy things, and I still do to this day. So I embraced it early on. How many, when you say nerdy friends, like, did you have, like, two close friends, three close friends?

Was it like, like, I'm trying to imagine that group? I had one very close friend named John Valadez, and then we had a posse, mostly the Dungeons and Dragons posse. You would play together, right? Yep, mm-hmm. And we did intensives. I mean, we would, school would be over,

and we would start playing at like 6 p.m. on a Friday night. We'd go till at least midnight. Then we'd play Saturday from like 11 to 11. Wow. And then Sunday, one guy, Sean Higgins always had to go to church. So it after church. like 1 or 2 p.m. to like 7 p.m. And then we would do all our homework from like 7 to 10 p.m. on a Sunday night and get that done with.

But that was at least two to three weekends a month for years. Like to me that sounds richly imaginative and social and fun, like a great way for young people to spend their time. I can imagine, at the time, parents might have looked at that sort of game playing, role-playing as that generation's version of, say, the screens we have now, the iPhone, whatever that might. I mean, some version of it. Sure. Like, how would you compare that to the way that maybe a lot of kids in middle school are really into gaming now, you know, that's like not this. It's not that it's not exercising some of the same muscles, but it's definitely not the same.

yeah it's it's not the same uh it is much more imaginative than staring at a screen you're creating characters and imaginative scenarios and fighting monsters and yeah you have little figurines on a table or something like that but you're imagining all when you're when you're playing a video game it's all right there you you see what it is if there's a monster in a video game or there's a gun or a sword it's it's right there on the screen there is a social element to to gaming which I think is positive when you get on the headphones with your friends and you all gather and you're, you know, shooting people or killing monsters or something like that together. But also parenting was very different back then. This whole idea of like helicopter parenting

of parents like being really, really interested in every choice and decision you're making as a kid and you're in the course of your education that didn't exist. So parents didn't understand it but i know like my parents they were just glad to have me out of their hair and there's well it's it's better than doing drugs so let them go i don't understand what the hell they're doing with these little figurines of elves but um god bless them and um but they didn't really and there's not really curfews or just like you know come back you know find your way back starts to get dark head back for dinner there wasn't now it's kind of like tracking devices on kids and where are you every minute and uh it was just it was a very different scene

i wonder what you're as a comedian like what your relationship to embarrassment it has been as an adult but then also as a tween like we're learning more about you in school i'm in matt i'm like i've been developing a really sweet picture of you carrying your bassoon and your pottery which is just hard physically to carry a yeah yeah yeah it's a workout yeah so i'm just i'm wondering what how have you dealt with embarrassment over the years? What's your relationship to it? Yeah, it's, you know, I think comedy, comedic performers are a strange breed. I described, you know, how kind of rough and tumble my school was and how nerdy I was.

And I was kind of spent most of my time terrified. But at the same time, I'm remembering the eighth grade talent show where my friend John Valid is an eye, we found his sister. took baton twirling classes. She had a little 45 record and it was a song called Watch Me Twirl My Baton for you. And it was, Watch Me Twirl

My Baton for you. It is bright and shiny new. Under one leg and then up high behind my back now I will try. How about that? I did it right. I must always hold on tight When I march it is high and low

In a parade or in a show We thought this was just so hysterical That my friend John and I We got tutus and batons And for our eighth grade talent show We got a record player on stage and put that on And then we choreographed a dance In tutus with batons

Wow Wow. And how to go over? It went over like gangbusters. Like we really should have won the talent show, but I think the teacher judges were like, well, we should give it to the girl who sang the beautiful Judy Collins song and actually had some talent.

But the kids were like, oh, we were like. So here's this weird thing where I was really self-conscious and nerdy, pimply and gawky. and at the same time I was willing to twirl a baton on stage in front of people in a tutu in kind of so it's this weird

it's this weird thing that that performers have so I spent so much of my youth really self-conscious about my looks and I was like I had this giant head and this really skinny body fortunately my body is fleshed out

to disguise the fact that my head is so huge in my middle age So, but at the same time, I, I was a class clown because I also realized that, you know, I could make people laugh and they would actually laugh and like me, you know, if I got the giant globe out of the globe stand and rolled it down the aisle of my history class towards the teacher. and they guffawed at that. And so there's just been this constant dance in my life of, you know, low self-esteem and feeling like a misfit and yet doing all these kind of outrageous things to get attention and which helped me build my voice. And that's kind of who I am today.

And I'm really actually happy around that because it's who I am. all right so um let's just let's just real talk as they say for a second that's a little bit of an aged thing to say now that that that dates me doesn't it um but no real talk uh how important is your health to you you know on like a one to 10 and i don't mean the in the sense of vanity i mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well right you want to be less stressed you don't want it as sick when you have responsibilities um i know myself i'm a householder i have uh i have two children and two more on the way um a spouse a pet you know a job that sometimes has its demands so i really want to feel like when i'm not getting the sleep and i'm not getting

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use the liposomal uh glutathione as well in the morning um really good for gut health and although i don't need it you know anti-aging um and then i also use the magnesium l3 and eight which is really good for for i think mood and stress i sometimes use it in the morning sometimes use it at night all three of these things taste incredible um honestly you you don't even need to mix it with water uh uh and yeah i just couldn't recommend them highly enough if you want to try to try them out, go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. The first few weeks of school are in the books, and now's the time to keep that momentum going. I-XL helps kids stay confident and ahead of the curve.

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One of the ways that we know each other is through the Baha'i faith. So growing up as an American kid in the 70s, I mean, I don't know how much you identified as a Baha'i at that age, but coming from a family that was this, you know, a minority religious identity. Yeah. Did it contribute to you feeling like I have this other quality that is like, that is maybe unusual or unknown, which I have to explain, or it's something that I don't think about much? And then it's also being that it is a body of teachings and writings of spiritual sustenance. I mean, it can also provide support in ways. So like, how did being a Baha'i contribute to your sense of identity then?

You know, as you're saying that, I was like, wow, here's this really weird, gawky, misfit, nerdy kid. And then on top of that, my parents were Baha'is. And I was the member of this kind of weird sounding religion, a very loving, inclusive, kind of, quote, unquote, normal faith if you explore it, there's nothing really that weird about it. But certainly a weird sounding name. So that was this whole other level of me just not fitting in. And it was a combination of being really mortified and embarrassed about the fact that I was a Baha'i. And at the same time, I felt it deeply in my heart, the truth of it, of the teachings and writings of Baha'u'llah, the founder of the Baha'i faith, and wanted to share my faith with people. Did you have conversations about God with your friends?

Like the way that you talked to your other friend in D&D who like had to peace out for like Sunday school on Sundays. Yeah. Did you, like how were those conversations between you guys? Did you talk about God? Did you talk about spirituality? Did you, you know? We did.

You know, we actually did. And that was another thing that was different about the 70s is that people were open to discussions around spirituality and bigger ideas. And two of my nerdy little D&D friends later became Bahaise. Wow. Cool. For, I think for short,

amounts of time. I'm not sure how long it lasted, but John and Sean both eventually became Baha'i. So, and that came out of, you know, long discussions around Baha'i ideas and going to, you know, Baha'i youth events, service projects and kind of seeing the, you know, the diversity and the enthusiasm towards making the world a better place. So, yeah. one way to to look at this period of life is like it's the first time you start experiencing these feelings of love and rejection which are some of the greatest teachers in this life you know like just those feelings of love and affection and then how they get crushed you know so so you know you don't have to go into any details you're unwilling but i think just yeah like what's a what's a do you remember your first crush I had I don't really remember my first crush as weird as that sounds I I had a lot of crushes on cute girls through like you know sixth and seventh and eighth grade and but I didn't you know again I didn't really think anyone would want to have me as a boyfriend I wasn't boyfriend material I was I was busy on the weekends as we've gone into, you know. Exactly.

You're a working man. Yeah. So, but then I had a few little dates here and there with some handholdings. And then when I was 16, I had a girlfriend in Seattle. And she was the smartest girl in the school named Jill. And, but she was pretty. And we had a really nice time together, very innocent, uh, relationship. And then when I went to Chicago,

then I started to have more relationships, and that's when I got my heartbroken. And one was this girl, Tria, and she was like the first person I met at the high school, and I was just totally smitten with her. And then she was actually interested in me, and we went out for a while, and I was just, I was hooked. I mean, she was amazed. She was funny, and she played me Joni Mitchell records, and she played the piano, and she danced, and I was just like, oh, my God. Joni Mitchell, that's, yeah, that's formative right there.

Right? And then she dumped me for John Sherman. Oh, John. We were doing this play called Time Out for Ginger. So many kids tried out for it. They did two casts. We had rotating casts. So one night it was cast one and then it was cast two.

And the dad on cast one was me. And the dad in cast two was John Sherman. So she left, and she was assistant. director and she left me for John Sherman yeah but here's what's funny Tria and I are now like best friends wow yeah did you reconnect or did you like stay friends we've always we've always been in touch that's great and um that's cool and we're really close and we talk all the time and I'm close with her husband and she's close with my wife and and I just like we just know each other really really deeply was there a period of like intense rejection

you felt after that you had to recover from? Here's how intense it was. I had never been dumped before. And oh my God, that is just the worst feeling in the world. I don't know why I did this, but I always used to throw my dirty clothes on the floor of this closet. And it was kind of those closets that had like accordion doors so you can open the doors.

And I would sleep in my dirty clothes on the floor of the closet. Oh, right. During this period of rejection. Yeah. You were like literally like steward. And it was, I would do that for, for days at a time. I would just, I would close the closet and I'd just be in there. It must have been a big closet.

I mean, you said you were tall, right? It was six feet long, yeah. Or you were really scrunched up. I'm just thinking about the dimension. There's some nice closet. Do you want me to draw you a sketch? Yeah, which way the door is open? Rain, I have a related question that I just really like to ask married people.

I'm not married and hope. to be one day and trying to learn about it. What is really good relationship advice that you've gotten? And what is really bad relationship advice that you've gotten? Well, I think bad relationship advice is this whole thing of like, we never fight. Like, we never fight. We never, like, that's bullshit. And then something's really wrong because there's going to be resolving conflict is a central part of,

what it is to be in relationship with someone. So difficulty and conflict and budding heads is part of what intimacy is about. So that's true intimacy is being able to get through that, you know? And it's hard. It's hard work. It's difficult. And I think for a lot of people,

there's a vision, maybe it's in television and the movies or whatever that, you know, if you find your quote unquote soulmate, that you're never going to have conflict. And it's just going to be, romance and love and beauty and you know and and instant unity but you know it's that's that's really difficult i think another misconception about fighting is that is that or you know struggle in a relationship

like resolving conflict as you say is that it has to look like what you then do see in the movies which is like the sort of romanticization of rage and conflict and like you know you see actors just tearing up this furniture in a scene and it's it's it's so persuasive and I think like I I think it's in a way you know my experience of of resolving conflict and relationship when it works is like coming to understand that the way that like resolution really looks is not like winning an argument that I think the problem with so many the ways that we look at arguments is like it's it's almost like debate rather than consultation it's like it's competition rather than cooperation that's my sense it's like you know in in in my marriage what

it's like if something comes to a fight then it's like well it's not so much about fighting through it which has happened we're trying to win a fight which has happened um uh not winning the fight but trying to win it's more like why do i feel the need to fight right now yeah you know what's happening in me where i feel unsafe or I feel untrusting or I feel unwilling and and to the point that I'm like I'm I'm angry you know I think that's transforming dysfunction into function I think I don't know that's my perspective no that's yeah that's that's that's well said I I would agree with that in terms of good advice um again going to this idea of community that if you look at marriage and that doesn't mean you have to like have a ceremony to get married but you look at like really long-term partnership um there's this great book that was really

popular in like the 80s and 90s called the road less traveled and it's i highly recommend it to everyone it's a really brilliant book it's not a self-help it's not a gooey self-help book it's it's got real psychology in it but he talks about marriage being two people supporting each other's spiritual journey so this idea that you're there's something bigger than the marriage it's the The marriage is not just you and me and love and we have sex and we have a good time together and we like the same shows. Like you're on a journey together and you're supporting each other on that journey. You're mutually supporting each other.

So again, it's going for something larger that's kind of bigger than the two of you, really. So I thought that was very good. So you mean like a mini series rather than a show? You got to like the same mini series. I'm struggling to follow. Trilogy? It's TV analogy. Yeah, no.

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is this kind of dance between fate and free will, choice and agency, like effort and confirmation, and then things just going in a completely unexpected route even when you've put in all the effort. So what has sort of been in your life, like a big plot twist or something that went in a completely different direction than you had anticipated? But that was, like, important and, like, what could you learn from that? Wow. That's such a great question. I think that there's, there's so many different stories like that.

Like, let's just go with, I'll throw out some stories about being an actor, okay? When I look back on it now from middle age, there were so many things that needed to line up for me to become an actor. One is we moved when I was 16 from Seattle to Chicago. My parents, speaking in the Baha'i Faith, my parents started to work at the Baha'i National Center. And we went to a nearby high school and it had like the most amazing drama program like in the country.

This high school called New Trier High School as a legendary theater program. And I'd always wanted to do some acting. I'd never really done acting other than the two-toos and the Bihers and the batons. And so here I was, and I was in an acting class, and I had these incredible acting teachers. And that was, that was, so that's, that's amazing. That was just pure happenstance. If I never had made that move, I would probably be a high school English teacher in suburban Seattle. There's nothing wrong with that. That's an awesome profession. But I, I wouldn't have been

an actor if I had stayed in Seattle. The other thing that happened is, you know, when I was started to kind of be a little bit good at it and get cast and make people laugh, I went into my drama teacher when I was 17 and I said, hey, Mrs. Adams, do you think that maybe one day I could potentially be a professional actor? And I was so nervous and I was really insecure and asking her this. And she was like, oh, yes, I think you could. Yes, you have lots of talent, but you have to. travel the world and you and you need to fall in love and read books and have adventures but yes you must work at it and study and just keep studying and it my heart was just filled with like light and hope and and that carried me you know that helped me so much but what if she had said well

it's tough yeah yeah it's true good luck with that um you know maybe you know then maybe I would have been less motivated, you know, less inspired. It's so interesting how, I mean, I've heard similar stories for a lot of people. Like thinking about my grandfather, he is a writer or was a writer. And the reason he became a writer is because his high school English teacher read a piece of his writing and said, you could do this professionally one day. And then that just sent him down that path. And I think I don't know if adults always realize the effect that their words and their,

passion can have on young people. Your encouragement. Encouragement and inspiration. This is part of the problem these days is it's so it's so easy to be cynical. Like it's just the whole world is kind of set up to be for you to be cynical. And it's I know something I struggle with. It's an easy fallback position to be like, oh. It's cool.

We're still trying to fit in in some way. Yeah. It's a very easy skin for me to don't, by the way. you know especially when i'm in interviews or i'm in because i actually have great faith and optimism and hope and sweetness it's sometimes hard to communicate those parts of yourself as much as being like yeah yeah fuck that man yeah it's unfortunate it really it really is but you know something you were just saying about like um the role of older people of of adults and i'm even thinking like young adults in encouraging people going through this, this time, this like middle school era,

what would you say to yourself then, you know? I mean, I don't think the point is, is like, what would you change? Because that's life, right? But like, what was something that you were struggling with the most then that you would, that looking back, you're like, oh, you know, it's taken me so long to learn this. What would you tell yourself then to give yourself, some relief and encouragement. There's a number of things, but the first thing that popped into my head was, you know,

so I'm describing this kid that always was like putting on tutus and, you know, rolling globes down the aisle and with batons and, you know, being a clown and trying to make people laugh. And so when I was studying acting, I was always doing the same thing. I was always like trying to do stuff. I was always working hard to, quote, unquote,

entertain and working hard to be liked and I guess if I could say anything to like eighth grade reign I would put my arm around his shoulder and just be like you know you are lovable you are likable just as you are you don't have to do anything you don't have to perform to be lovable like you're you're okay just as you are and I had to learn that lesson as an actor when I went to acting school i was always working hard like in a kind of a sweaty performative way and my acting teacher said to me like you know rain what are you doing you know you just you're pushing so much like you're you're interesting you don't have to do much you don't have to do anything like and i broke down in tears like i broke down in the class just sobbing because i really part of acting and you know this pen too

there's there's a therapy aspect to being an actor absolutely you're using yourself so much you know you're using your your body and your memories and your emotions and it's a very spiritual thing to do it's a blessing when it's a blessing yeah yeah so uh and i still it took me years but i that's been a you know a big a big lesson for me like i still have to remind myself like i'm interesting I'm lovable. I'm okay. I don't need to do all this stuff all the time in order to kind of get attention and affection

and to be able to do my craft. For people that age, I'm wondering like, what are some of the things about our culture? What is a thing about our culture that makes feeling lovable hard? And particularly for that age. Because an adult, anybody can tell you something,

but you ultimately have to live through it to learn it. you know so i'm just wondering like for those out there going through this time or they're older and it's just the same the same lesson what are some of those forces that make it so hard to feel just to accept yourself and feel lovable and what is a way to combat one of those forces that's deep man i think it's a big question yeah that's a big one maybe it's just the question that we don't have to answer i'm literally thinking about it yeah yeah yeah know i'm just thinking about it i don't know i don't know what that is but i you know the one thing that

just popped into my head of like why do we struggle with this so much have humans always struggled with this maybe they have but i think that not that things in the olden days were like necessarily golden days but i imagine that kids didn't deal with this as much when they had really strong communities because if you have a community you're buoyed and lifted by that community you're a tribe or your extended family life you know where um it used to be without community there there was there was no way of subsisting I think like we've never been in such a in such an isolated individualistic like you can you can live on your own in a way that you never used to be able to. It was a good point. We're social, we're social creatures and we need, you know, we need those

Dungeons and Dragons games. I mean, that was my, that was more my family than my family was, you know, but creating community is really important for teens and being feeling a part of something. We just love to feel a part of something. Then we get our identity of like, I'm a part of this thing that's bigger than me. Yeah. And I want to contribute to that. And then you feel valuable. Well, thank you, Raine. Thank you for coming on our show, which is taking place in your house today. Yes, thank you for coming. I think this was a particularly nostalgic conversation.

I mean, there's nostalgia in all of them, but there was something about his nerddom. Oh, yeah. That felt like I was living in the beginning of Stranger Things. which is, by the way, where evidently most people want to live. And props to Rain, because he really, like, went to those memories and stayed in them with us, and it was kind of tender and sweet. Very much, very much. I love that Rain goes all in.

You know, he'd start a bit, and I'd expected him to trail off, but he just kept going. He finished the whole song. Yeah, that was actually what I enjoyed the most, was hearing Rain sing that song. It was so sweet, and I just love it when a guest sings. Well, it's interesting you say that. because our next test is I want everybody to like me and to be impressed by everything I do

Wait wait wait wait I can sing even more than rain Yeah no you like rain Okay well watch what I can do Leighton was down to earth I'm more down to earth This is my show Can I just say I actually played Dungeons and Dragons For a little bit

Really? And I enjoyed it I enjoyed it a lot And so I was living vicariously Through Rain's prototypical nerddom I felt the joy and the sort of the camaraderie between those boys, you know? One of my favorite parts of the interview with Rain was when he gave marriage advice to Nava. I loved his advice.

It was that some people say that you shouldn't fight and he felt like that was BS and that having conflict and being able to resolve conflict is a really important skill and something that creates intimacy. And I think it was really valuable advice. Tell us about your most explosive fight with David and Domino. Go. Well, it was yesterday. I'm just kidding.

It actually was, yeah. No, but I actually was thinking like, wow, we're getting really good at diminishing the time between like an intense argument and then resolving it. That's what it is. It's recovery time. But you, dear listener, we hope that your recovery time, this is a good segue, guys, just wait. We hope that your recovery. between episodes is no less Wait, no longer

That, wait, I got it No longer than a week Seven days Next What is it? Friday? Wednesday, Penn, Wednesdays Wednesdays, Wednesdays

Wednesdays Um, dear reader, no Oh shit You know, you can catch Wilson in the upcoming movie Weird, the Al Yankovic story, or his podcast metaphysical milkshake that he co-hosts with Reza Aslan, or his podcast Radio Rental, which explores strange crimes and all things paranormal, or just follow him on socials. Podcrush, is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navakavan, and Sophie Ansari.

Our executive producer is Nora Richie from Stitcher. Our lead producer and editor is David Ansari. Our secondary editor is Sharaf and Twizzle. Special thanks to Peter Clowney, VP of Content at Stitcher, Eric Eddings, director of Lifestyle Programming at Stitcher, Jared O'Connell and Brendan Bryans for the tech support, and Shruti Marante, who transcribes our tape. Podcrush was created by Navakavalen,

and is executive produced by Penn Badgley and Navakavalent, and produced by Sophie Ansari. This podcast is a ninth mode production. Be sure to subscribe to Podcrush. You can find us on Stitcher, the Serious XM app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. If you'd like to submit a middle school story, go to podcrush.com and give us every detail.

And while you're online, be sure to follow us on socials, we're telling everyone that your mom still walks you to the bus stop, you don't want that. It's at Pod Crush, spelled how it sounds, and our personals are at Phem Badgley, at Nava, that's Nava with three ends, and at Scribble by Sophie. And we're out. See you next week. Bye. Do you want to try doing that again, even more conversation?

Yeah, do you want to try, it was good, but just another one, just another way. It's a touch less red and more said. Oh, wow, that's a new... A touch less bad and more rad. Oh, snap. Less shit more it. That's pretty good. Sophie, come on.

Give us a rhyme. I'm like, oh, shit, I don't have anything here. Stitcher.