Podcrushed - Ramy Youssef

Episode Date: November 8, 2023

Come join us as Penn falls in love with our guest, Ramy Youssef (award-winning actor, producer, and stand-up comic). Ramy shares what it was like to be a Muslim kid in New Jersey the day after 9/11, why he loves Jesus but won't eff with Santa, and why in middle school he literally would have rather shit his pants than miss out on a good time. **This episode was recorded prior to the SAG-AFTRA strike.** Follow Podcrushed on socials:TikTokInstagramXSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada Hey there So today's episode is with Rami Youssef, who's brilliant, very talented. We talked so much about his projects, everything that he's doing, where he's coming from, where he's going. It was just all about him as an artist as a creator, as a writer, as an actor, as a comedian. You know, and we did this before the strike. We've been hanging on to it.

hoping that we could release it after the strike because there's no real way to edit around all of his projects but it looks like the strike is going to last longer than our season and we've got nothing left for you so this is what we have to do you know it's it's still very much within the bounds of propriety we recorded it before the strike and so that's that but I just wanted to give a little bit of extra context because we do dig so deeply into into his projects

because that's what he was here for and it was a great time enjoy I had FOMO really bad I didn't want to miss out on anything and so I would have to go to the bathroom like I'd have to poop but I'd be like well I don't want to go poop because like while I do it something cool could happen oh wow I love that but then I'd shit my pants welcome to podcrushed we're hosts I'm Penn I'm Nav and I'm Sophie and I think we could have been your middle school besties practicing our secret Handshake that we do publicly, but is still somehow a secret. You know what? I was going to ask you guys about this might be too much.

We ask every guest this question, but I think we let ourselves off the hook when it was our episode. So I want to know about your first crush. I know. I'm pretty sure I mentioned mine. Did we answer that? I'm not. The clock is ticking, Sophie? Go. Penn is not participating. I was just filled with feelings. Really? I mean, where, which one? You know? Your password was voice. Crazy 9-9, wasn't it?

Yeah, Boy Crazy 64, I think. But, you know, kind of like our guest today, you'll hear him say that his first crush, he can remember, was in kindergarten. I think me too. Like, it was so early. I think I was six years old. I remember there was a boy who was like a neighbor, and we performed the tango for our parents, and he had held a rose between his teeth. I remember that when you were five. Yeah, that's amazing.

Yeah. You have very colorful, like, romantic stories. I love them. As an aside, I, like, really one day want to write a screenplay about Sophie's different love stories. She knows this. I, like, interviewed her once, and I still think about it. Maybe one day.

Maybe one day. I, my first crush was also in kindergarten. His name was Giancarlos Ortega. He had beautiful green eyes, and I would think about him every day at nap time. Every day. That's so cute. At a nap time. I would, like, fall.

I would, like, drift into nap time thinking about Giancarlo. That is so, it's funny. it's funny because it's poetic and it just seems so mature and you were five five it's just it's funny always had it in her yeah no look i mean i can remember those very deep stirrings of like that feeling at that age and and having a crush there was i don't quite remember her name it was like christine or christina i don't remember which one and it was like uh it was it was a it was it was a it was a it was a thing you know a crush but wow the fact that we at that age are having whatever notions those are

I want to know more about the psychology and the biology of that you know who isn't going to be able to tell us anything about that is well not only none of us but not our guest today we've got so much else this was a lovely conversation I was going to say it's one of my favorite conversations

I might say that a lot but it ends up being true in its own way every time just wait because Penn in this episode there is a moment where he falls in love with our guest. Yeah, you'll hear it. And I will name it, but there's a moment.

And actually, I'm not kidding. But watch this one on YouTube because you can see it on it. I'm like, I think Penn is about to propose to Rami. Like, Penn is in love. Tears came to my eyes after the moment passed

because I was just like, it was refreshing, you'll hear it, whatever, you don't need to build it up. Now the bar is really high. But yeah, so we have Rami Yusef. He's, if you don't know who that is already, he's a comedian. actor, writer, director

he's got a huge show that he won we're still unclear if it's an Emmy or Golden Globe for his show, which is his own name, Rami. It's about a millennial Muslim American navigating the realities and absurdities of modernity and identity. Could we get any more itty's in there?

While the fictional Rami struggles to find his place in the world, that is just not the case with this one. He's killing it. He's killing the game. He's got a body two golden globes uh he he's co-created netflix's moe uh from the comedian moa mare i think i'm saying that name correctly i hope i am um rami was just a delight and he really really drilled into our very premise of this of this whole middle school period so uh we hope you stick around

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On the way up here, there's like the guys who do the scanning card. Yeah. Do you talk to them? Yeah. Okay, they love you. They know, because they know your whole IMDB. This guy was like walking me through like EZA. He's walking me through all the seasons of you. Like he was just like, you know who you're seeing, right?

And then I'm like, no, I know. And then he just like went through the whole. I was making sure that you. Over time I've discovered that. And I'm, you know, the few of them I've spoken with a lot. And, yeah, it's. He takes them to coffee every morning to brief them on how to greet a guest. Like, make sure.

I don't forget that I was the other talk to her. I had this... Don't leave out the stepfather. Yeah, yeah. And they didn't. The stepfather came up. I mean, this was all during just the check-in process. Yeah, which is all ready.

Two minutes. It's a two-minute process that became ten because there's just a genuine enthusiasm for you. But we had this, like, you know, conversation about EZA, which is such a good film. That's really sweet. Yeah, it's so fun. That's true. I'm just going to have a real hot takey first question. Please.

You were what? Around about, I think you were in middle school. as a Muslim in America after 9-11 Yeah Is that accurate? Very accurate So what was that like? You know it's wild

Like I've been thinking about this period of time A lot I didn't think about that period For like 15 years Like I just didn't even It like happened And I think it was really intense And then I tried to just

Act like it didn't happen Right Then we did this episode of it In the first season of my show On Hulu and then we got to you know I was writing all this stuff about the period and then I was like whoa there's a lot that I didn't ever process and I think the big thing was it was just this thing of like we were there was only a few Muslim families and then you kind of see what's happening

on the news and whatever and there's this fear and we were right outside New York too so we're you know my dad's working in New York everyone has family there and I think I realized many years later the level of fear wasn't just people kind of coming in it was that self-fear of like oh wait is what people are saying about us true so there's this like

fear you have of yourself and I think that to me was the most interesting thing to zone into as I was writing and now we're doing this like really wild animated show set in 2001 in middle school it's about this family that which I think is kind of real to

where we were where you're kind of getting looked at so much that there's this performance you start doing of like, no, no, we're so cool. Like, you can't be afraid of us. And so the animated show is about this father with his kids and, you know, it's a whole family really, but he sets out, you know, after that day to say

that they're not just going to be the best fit. They're going to be like the number one family. And the show is called number one happy family USA. But that act of that performance though and kind of like I think, you know, we're performers and we have like a

a natural desire to want to be liked but then it's like really amped up where you're like oh man I feel like I'm on I'm playing mega defense right now right this idea of like oh is what as you said is like they say about us true you know

the quote unquote they and the quote unquote us like can you I'm kind of interested like at that time what were some of those things you know I mean like I always put it this way where it's like you you know this is where like like the word minority feels really real because you're like there are just fewer

of us you know there's like the majority there's the minority you know so it's just like quite simply there's fewer of us and then you're like okay so who are the Muslims I know my parents right and then I'm a kid and my parents are my enemy half the time so and then everyone's like you know

and Muslims are the enemy and I'm like well these guys have already been like telling me to clean my room when I don't want to these guys like I kind of have some beef with them to begin with I love them but you know they're difficult and now there's a larger case being made against them where do I fall what side am I going to be on

and obviously joking aside it was just this this fear of like not knowing there's just this not knowing and you know you when you don't have information and everything's very emotional yeah that self fear was a part

that I didn't realize for really long time and then you know I think it for me created ultimately an intimacy with my faith and intimacy with the various communities that I'm a part of because there was that fear and then I was like, well, wait, is that true? And then realizing, of course, it's not true that, you know, the way we're being painted has nothing to do with who we actually are and how we live. But there was like a closeness that ended up being created in that quest to figure that out

that I'm actually really appreciative of, you know, just that thing of like, yeah, going through those experiences but you know being uh yeah being in middle school at the time it's it's yeah it was wild so you said you didn't have maybe any of their Muslim friends is that right or like they were just a few other families you knew it's like yeah

it was like two families in our town um and and then it was yeah there was like a couple people we kind of knew but it wasn't you know we weren't in the middle of a community I know people who move to the states but then they like

a bunch of people from their home country get spots in the same community and they all go to the same activities and do all that. We weren't part of that. That wasn't what we had going on. So it was maybe like, I know that for like a young white kid

during this time period happens to be at the same time but just middle school is like, I'm trying to think of what I might have thought about identity. And I think one of the strange things about whiteness is that it has the myth of like, not being an identifier, you know, it's the sort of, it's the, it's the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, it was, like, the, it was, like, the, it was, like, the, I mean, it was, like, the, I mean, it was, like, the, I mean, I mean, like, I mean, like, I think it was already had the, I think it was already front and center, just, I mean, I mean, I think it was already front and center,

just by like not doing Christmas which is very traumatic. It's like deeply like whoa you know I mean this is big you know like so when you're young and you know the truth about Christmas it's like a really big burden because you kind of can't tell anybody

yeah the truth. Yeah the truth. Is it about Santa or Jesus? Which one? It's about Santa. We rock with Jesus. We do. Oh, that's all right.

Yeah, that's all of course. Yeah. There's some like different specifics we have on you. I should know that. I want to clarify. Yeah, yeah. We are Baha'i.

All three of us happen to be Baha. Have you ever heard of the Baha'i face? Of course. Okay. So is this true, Nava and Sophie? I don't think you grew up with Christmas either. No. Yeah.

And I grew up in Puerto Rico, which is intensely Christian. Oh, yeah. They love Christmas. And there aren't even like Muslims or Jews, really. There's like a few. Not in my school. So I was the only other religion and it was very strange to not celebrate. Yeah, I spent my formative years in the Philippines, which is like very Catholic,

very Christmas heavy. So, yeah. And when you said it's kind of traumatic. I feel you. Oh, right? I mean, you're just like to not go, like, and then you. you feel cynical and you know it's like it's like you don't have an imagination

and then I and you can't say it I remember being pulled like a teacher was like dude you got to stop you got to stop saying and I'm like saying what you know she's like that Santa's not real but he's not and she goes yeah I know but let's just keep it down

I'm getting in trouble for telling the truth I mean this is crazy and the thing is like real life is magical like a small seed I couldn't agree it becomes a tree yes why do we got to say This, like, big dude goes through the chimney. The parents don't get credit for, like,

maxing out their credit cards. The whole thing is dark. Like, it doesn't make any sense. I fully, fully agree. So, all right. And still have Christmas. It's just the Santa part. Why?

Right. You know, like, it's not. We're going to name this episode taking down Christmas with Rami. No, but see, but the problem is that'll be really volatile because then there's a war against Christmas, which is a whole other. It will be great for us, so you will fall under the bus under the, you're just, we're just, I don't want to be The war, okay, here's what I'll say. In terms of the war against Christmas, I don't like happy holidays.

I like Merry Christmas, especially when it's Christmas week. Right, because of what other holidays are there? You know, just the week of Christmas? Sometimes, though, it will be Hanukkah. Sometimes it'll be Hanukkah. But I, like, I know my friends who do Hanukkah. I know my friends who do, you know what I mean? So I guess it's like, okay, maybe if you're Macy's, you got to say it.

But don't say happy. You know, let's just say Merry Christmas. Yeah, that's fair. So just for anyone out there, who might think I really don't have a word against Christmas I say it's against Santa who is not in the text

Yeah who's not real Santa's not in the text None of them So if we want to get textual Yeah There's no issue with what I'm saying I'm curious You describe feeling a more

More intimacy with your faith And with your culture And that's so interesting to me I feel like You can go one of two ways If you feel like you're not fitting in With the mainstream You can either

like eschew what you what makes you different or you can you can embrace it and become really close to it and I wonder at that young age I think it's tempting to to try to fit in and so what was it in your life was your what did your parents do what was it in you that sort of pushed you to just become closer and more intimate with the things that made you different yeah I think I think you're totally right there's there's sometimes this um wanting to erase and I never and I just knew that felt really incorrect. I just knew there was too much love I had felt in those spaces. That's cool.

And so I said, okay, well, I'm scared. I have, you know, this is like a, I know I'm young and I feel this like information issue and but, yeah, so it kind of set me on a bit of like a fact-finding mission where I was like, okay, I'm scared, it's created a self-fear, but I also feel like that's probably off to, I just need to know the truth, you know. And so, and again, I think the thing that I also felt was, like, just watching the news and seeing everything, I did know, you know, these are the same people who also propagate Santa.

So they're probably lying about this, too. Yes. I mean, that's true. It's a good joke, but it's also true. That's why I didn't laugh because I was appreciating the profundity first. You're not going to just get it out. At 10, he already knew that late stage capitalism was ruining every. thing. Don't get me started on the

Christmas industrial complex. I have two follow-ups. What was your relationship like with your family? I mean, you made the joke about sort of hating them and loving them, but like what was it like? And tell us

more about your faith, sort of like it seems to be a really prominent part of your life. Is it something that you felt early on? Did you ever struggle with your Muslim identity? I'd love to hear more about that. I have the best parents. They're awesome. They're, you know, my favorite thing about my parents

is that anything that bothers me about our relationship or anything that happened as a kid was truly just like well they didn't know you know what I mean it's just like we all like it's so clear

and it's like it's like you don't and I think it's also interesting too when you look at grandparents because it's like you look at grandparents and you look at how your parents parent's parent and then you can get a vibe off your grandparents and then you're like and I love my grandparents parents and they did the best they knew but it's like you kind of look at it and I was always like

oh man my parents are dope like they do things really different from both their sets of parents you know so I really appreciated that and then any frustration I was like well not everyone can do anything you know can do everything I mean you know and so so I definitely always had this deep respect for where they were at and what they were trying to do and you know especially yeah just not being from this country right yeah and then i think just the simplest way i can even put the faith relationship was i just since i was a kid knew there is this like i loved praying like i just loved this private conversation with god when i knew like that i do that i love with you yeah i'm just like i love you ron like that's so real

how is that not it's i knew it i knew it watching your show i knew it i was just like there's no way this man won't say this today and they even laughed at me because I had a question about that that we know he does he does it's just you know it's just beautiful

to hear somebody say that unabashedly because you just don't hear it that much sure and like as a you know yeah or people say it and apologize right yes it's that unapologetic

you know just clear direct faith you know and that can mean so many things it can mean so many things but it's like look we all have

a relationship with the unseen right and so to me prayer is this really beautiful faithful leading with love connection to the unseen as opposed to sitting in like only my fears and anxieties which is also like sitting in your fear and anxiety is a form of praying because you're just sitting with the unseen yeah right yeah you're just sitting with what you can't see right but it's like what version of sitting with what you can't see do you want to have and so it's like Do you want the one that's aspirational? Do you want the one that's, like, building something that is, you know, has accountability and has love and has, you know, I mean, and I don't blame people for not saying it really openly just because, you know, like, religions become like a dark business. So it's like I'm not, you know, the last couple swings at it, you know, the immediate, I would say, preceding generations, not great.

You know, so I'm totally, I get the landscape, but also, to me, this is real. Yeah. Yeah. Can I just say as an aside, sorry, Penn, I know you're so happy and you want to jump in? We only have so much time. I love talking about religion publicly. One of my favorite things to do for a number of reasons. But I think also that it's like not fair to not acknowledge that religion in our hands is subject to all the forces that everything else is.

So just like science is subject to the forces of late stage capitalism. and there's corruption in that. Of course, there's also corruption in religion. It doesn't mean that you throw away science. So why do people who have faith have to throw away religion or pretend that it's not like a part of their lives that is meaningful? Just because it's touched by those same forces. Well, it's like anything emotional and intimate, right?

So it's even like the business we work in, it's like a set can be the most loving, amazing place that people are at their creative peak doing something that's like an offering for the world. Or it can be like a really dark, twisted, ego-driven thing and people go along with it because they know there's something at the core that's really beautiful but it's like in these

really bad hands and so it's like you see it in almost anything that means anything there's like the version that's awesome and you know you just feel like the most alive you've ever felt and then there's a version that's just yeah dark it's manipulated it's true yeah totally

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Get IXL now. And Podcrush listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL memberships when they sign up today at IXL.com slash podcrushed. Visit ixl.com slash podcrushed to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. You have found this way to almost everything we've been talking about. You have converted into some kind of award-winning or in development and probably soon to be. You know what I'm saying? Like you don't have to acknowledge it or whatever. But it seems to be true. Like, you know, from your stand-up to your show and to the things you're developing now with your company. it seems like you're just directly translating the things you care most about into like really relatable

projects which is ultimately the work of an artist you know I mean it's like so I guess I'm curious about two things so one is we it's a podcast but also just we culturally don't hear a lot of younger cooler people talking about

prayer and like mysticism, like the mystical dimension to religion and spirituality. And because you said as a child you loved prayer, that to me, like, as a person who was not encouraged to pray until I found faith on my own in my 20s and then have just like reclaimed it with such a vigor, you know, and I'm just like, where was this when I was 12 and depressed? You know, literally. So I want to hear about what that was

just what was your relationship to prayer or to that special mysterious place in us all and then and then art like what was your because that's related to art that's part of the news process and what was your relationship

to like what kind of artist were you becoming performer or whatever? When I was a kid I just loved cameras and I think it's because I watched my dad my dad would work like crazy shifts but then he'd come home after doing like an overnight or something and we'd be waking up and he'd pull out the video camera

like he just loved videotaping us like it was like his you know and it was that area it sounds sweet oh it's so sweet we have we're like well documented children I can like look back and I I don't even know if I have memories of being a kid or from remembering the videos because I've seen them like I'm not sure that's that kind of precious Yeah, yeah. Like, I feel like my memory is like online starting like 11.

Like before that, I don't know how much I actually know. In general, I have kind of not the greatest memory. Like, and I don't even, I used to, used to frustrate me, but I kind of, I am very much not wanting to be in the past that much for better or for worse. It's just kind of, I guess, how I am. I can't, it's not even a choice. It's just, I'm just like here, you know. But, yeah, the obsession with cameras and making things was really early for me. Like, I remember it was the first thing I saved up for as a kid. And I remember waiting for the package to come in the mail.

And I don't know if you were, like, just being younger, like, when like the, it took forever for something to come. Yeah, it was great. Just you hear the truck on your street and you're like, today might be my day. And then it isn't. And then, you know, and then it just goes by. And, oh, I'd be so upset for like the two hours after that, you know, because I've been waiting for that sound. but I was yeah I would go around the neighborhood and I'd make things and I would you know put my friends in them and then I would edit them and then slowly I kind of started

to be like oh I'll be in something you know and I'd put myself in something and it was all really organic because I never thought it would ever amount to anything professional you know even to the point where when I left high school I had just finished doing my last play and I remember telling my high school theater teacher I was like oh man this is the last time I'm going to perform on stage. Wow, that's interesting. And she's like, what are you talking about? And I was like, yeah, because I got to go to school.

But didn't you study political science, but didn't you also have some other thing in performing? Yeah, so, well, what happened was, so I'm leaving high school and I'm going to Rutgers to study political science and economics. And I, yeah, I'm like, that's it, you know, because I couldn't imagine that I'd be able to make a career out of what I was doing in high school. But then, you know, my buddies who I was doing sketch comedy with were like, well, let's just go to an improv jam. And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, I guess I could do that. You know what I mean? Like, you know, like, I thought life was just going to turn on and like, like, real world would happen after high school.

I was so just blind to anything else. I thought the whole world was just going to change the second I went to college. But then it was like, no, I still like performing. I still like doing these things. And then I was like, well, maybe I'll take an acting class. You know, like it kind of snuck up on me until I, you know. But I never did it thinking would be a career. So it was, it was in a sense, when I look back at.

it I realized how there was something pure about me doing it certainly as a young kid but even the older I got in that I was just doing it because I loved it and I was like but this is probably going to end here you know that's pure though that was yeah it had that thing like like and and unaware of it being that but I just was like there's no way I don't know anybody but I really like doing that and then and then I think you know the I guess this is another thing, more I think about it, even also seeing my dad pray in the morning, you know. We're supposed to pray five times a day. I just see him do it every morning. And I remember thinking, yeah, that's, that looks like a great way to start the day. And, you know, we get

down on the floor, you put your head on the ground. And I think the older I've gotten, the more I realize just how it's, it's, it's, it's, you can't be in your head too much when you were literally bringing every part of your body down to the ground in submission to all of this. You know, it's kind of just, there's a reason people have been doing it. You know, like, it's just there is. And I think that that's, it's so beautiful, you know, to me. I just remember being, you know, that's beautiful and I want to do it and then I would do it. That's very cool.

The reason that it interests me is because depression and anxiety is skyrocketing in our kids. yeah you know it just is and you know you actually kind of made the link earlier you said you said like well in a way you know what what some of these aspects of like of anxiety the spiraling and the and the and the revving of the mind is is maybe just it's like it is a form of prayer but it isn't as um you might have used the word aspirational you might have used the word i forget which one but you know i think that's a very interesting take on it and of course acknowledging there's so much about the biological aspect of the brain that a lot of people

will be quick to mention and jump on and I certainly don't want to like overstate bounds but I think but I think it's also very you know well documented that you know the word meditation is much safer to use yeah right meditation is highly documented as changing the biological nature of the brain like this is out there you know it's real it's like there's kind of It's 100% undeniable.

I think that, you know, look, there's, this is what you just said really reminds me of, is like, I'll say, like, I remember, you know, being a kid, uh, of all the dangers of the internet, like, as I look back, you know, of all the things that could be pitfalls, I think for a while, I was like, man, I really wish I hadn't seen porn when I was a kid. Oh, me too, yeah. But I have a, I've actually, I've just been thinking about this really recently. I think the more I've sat with it, the thing that I think might have been even worse for me

was being invited to create an online profile at a really young age. Because there's something about picking your screen name and your profile photo and you're about me and you're like broadcast to the whole world that feels so strange because it's like you're forming who you are but you're kind of like marketing yourself midway. Oh, yeah, definitely. And I think it's such a mind fuck because it's like you, I think, rush to saying who you are in order to project that out into the world.

And there's something I think deeply fucked up about that. Like I just think it actually like halts you. Like any piece of art, anything, you know, putting anything out too early would be crazy. Right. But then it's like, okay, I'm going to tell everyone who I am. right now. Here are the nine photos. And this is my personality.

And I used to write all this crazy stuff because I felt like I had to say something. Right, right. And I was like, why am I even? Why? Rami, we have a couple of questions we ask every guest. So we're not going to let you off the hook. Please.

Can you tell us about your first love and heartbreak? Oh, man, my first love. Or crush. Yeah, my first crush. Yeah, I'm trying to think who my first crush. was there was this girl I don't even remember her name I like remembered what she looked like you know and I remember she had this like blue dress and she she was I guess she was in kindergarten class I just remember when we moved we were in Queens and we moved to Jersey and I was just like but what about me and her like working like you know like that's an early that's an early memory that I had and I remember being too embarrassed to tell my parents I remember feeling it was a a major factor as to why we shouldn't move. But I

couldn't say it, but I was like, guys, like, what are we talking about? Because there's this whole thing going on here. Like, I've been working on this. And now we're going to go. Can't remember her name. You know, I don't know much. But there was a blue dress. Jane Doe. I just remember, it's a very Jane Doe situation.

I remember the blue dress. I remember the classroom. And then it really fades out after that. But that was strong. That was really blue dress well after kindergarten what were your experiences around

crushes and no we were it was funny because we also were all we were right in that prime period of going from dial up into high you know into like faster internet or whatever everything was remarkably online

like so I remember I had a girlfriend in sixth grade I the biggest thing about the girlfriend at the time was that like she was on my AIM profile like as my girlfriend I think I saw her twice at school like I was too shy to talk to her at school

but it was just like but she's my girlfriend you know what I mean and so like everyone knows like it was kind of like a social thing it was just like but we didn't we didn't spend any time together I don't think we ever went anywhere I feel like that's pretty emblematic of a middle school relationship

it's like you you think a lot about it. It's established by other people. It's very important to other people. Oh my God, you guys are dating. It's crazy. Yeah, it's like a social status but you guys rarely. Dude, there was this one morning we walked in and it was wild news that happened the night before. It all happened online

where there were two couples and they switched. It was like an NBA trade. It was just like boom. The tables have turned. They did a swap. Everyone agreed. You know, this is big news. And we were, oh, we couldn't.

stop talking about it for months. I mean, it was it rocked us. I mean, we were just, it was so wild. We're like, how that can happen? Everyone agreed?

It's like, yeah. They were all, they all got in a group call and like they did it. Wow. Like, yeah, actually I came as it. And I was like,

this is amazing. Yeah, it seems pretty evolved. There's more an aspect of it. With a negotiation involved seems pretty, you know, high level. They were, I mean, to this day,

I haven't seen that work. Right. I've never seen adults pull it off I'll tell you that I've never seen I've never seen adults pull it off Romie the other question we ask everyone

but we can give you like an option we ask everyone to share an embarrassing story but sometimes we ask comedians to share a story of like a time they bombed on stage so I don't know if either of those is more coming to you Oh um

it's like which time did I bomb on stage so many have you ever bombed on stage? No no no it's like going through the catalog or an embarrassing story from middle school. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whatever you prefer. Were you into comedy by that? You were kind of, right?

I love George Carlin. That's how I would go to my uncle's room and he'd play Carlin. That was, and I would just be like, wow, you know, because my uncle also talks like Carlin. Everything's a rant, and it's like really just political and theories and he kind of never, he never really turns it off. and I always thought it was so funny because he would just like

you know I don't know he just have some like theory you know we're younger and just some really passionate opinion about Bill Clinton or something and you're just laughing because it's just like the passion is so

turned on like my family's so funny in that sense that everyone's just so passionate about what they're saying and it's like conflict or whatever but everyone's just like I'm right and I think from since I was a kid

I was like oh there's something really funny when someone thinks they're really right I like keeping things I don't know I can never assert myself be like I am right like it just feels so funny to do yeah right

to just be like I'm right what that's crazy you're right that's nuts but yeah being a kid oh man what's the most embarrassed

well I used to do this thing that was really crazy actually I had this and I can't even, there's so many times I did it, but there's, I'll just tell you about the act of what I did. I had, I had FOMO really bad. I didn't want to miss out on anything. And so I would have to go to the bathroom, like I'd have to poop. But I'd be like, well, I don't want to go poop

because like, while I do it, something cool could happen. Oh, wow. I love that. But then I'd shit my pants. No, Robbie. No, no, no. Okay. Then I'd shit my pants. Like, like, so this was a bit chronic? This happened more than what? This was chronic. I would get to the edge and sometimes everything would die down and then everyone would go home and then I could go poop

but then there'd be times when the hang was still going I didn't want to miss it so I shit my pants but then everyone's like yes during the hang and then I'm like okay if we're outside I'm going to get away with this but if we're indoors at a certain

point someone's like what's that smell At a certain point Someone's like, look at that's mouth And then I gotta go home And it's so much worse Because it's like now I have to go all the way home I could have just went to the bathroom And this happened more than once, Rami

There's like three times That are like really clear in my mind Which makes me think there's more Yeah Because I'm like if I can remember three That's what I'm saying If I can remember three It's got to be seven, nine

I got to be nine deep And I think it was for years And it probably I couldn't tell you like the end age But Wow It's got to be older than it should have been I was subbing in kindergarten class

And a kid pooped his pants I was like subbing as a TA So the teacher was still there He pooped his pants I had to help him deal with it And then he went back to the classroom I had to tell the teacher And she called him over

And she was really stern And I was like, oh, no, this is probably why he pooped his pants. He's, like, too afraid to ask to go to the bathroom. She leans over and she's like, this has to stop happening. Oh, my God, how many times? It's been going on. We've talked about this. Yeah.

I don't know what it is. He must have been like you. Rami, is there an adult manifestation of that? Like, do you still have that, like, fear of missing out? No. Really? That's actually gone. It's resolved.

It's really, really. resolved. I mean, at least socially, I wonder if I have a fear of missing out on other things, but I don't have that, like, I got to be at the hang thing. Right. Yeah. I actually, I was so happy when I met you at the basketball game. I feel like that's when I meet people, like, that I really like, or like their work, or I've seen them. Because I don't, I don't actually, like, go to parties or anything very much. So I'm just like, if I see someone, Nick's game is a big backstory for a lot of my relationships. Yeah, I'm like, oh, dude, sorry to the next game.

Dude, it's actually, you know what? I just started going. It's proving to be somewhat similar for me. It's the best. So I'm ripping the shirt today. It's so good. It's such a great, like, because I also love watching basketball with people, too, because there's just no, there's no nepotism in basketball.

It's just like, dude, can you do it? Oh, yeah. Can you play defense? Can you put the, yeah. He put the ball in a basket? Yeah. It's like, wow. That, no, AI is not replacing that.

it's the most beautiful it's the most beautiful thing it is to watch I got into it in these last two years because my stepson he started to play very unexpectedly by the way yeah like in his middle school years we were all wondering

kind of you know what he's going to be into none of his parents are into sports in that way he just pulled basketball out of a hat and he like loves it all the stats dude all this and so that's what our conversations are these days and I really get that

like I actually it's there's something very interesting there to you know I grew up very much not in this not not in a... You didn't have a sport as a kid I mean I had soccer but then because my dad was a coach it just turned really toxic really quick and so I got it pushed it away for a while

but so the point is growing up didn't have the sport thing and now I'm like having that with with my little middle school he's going to high school now but so cool it's fascinating it's a fascinating thing to see because I used to roll my eyes at it and maybe I think maybe because I felt

excluded from it by no one for no real reason but now I'm just really appreciating both the like there's something about watching the game it's just so present and basketball in particular

because my sport was if anything soccer basketball is like it is so fast and it's like chess because it's so high scoring so you just know like you're just always chipping away you know what I mean

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Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed, spelled try-n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. Rami, I want to know not because, because of the idea itself, which is so brilliant, but because of the narrowness of the culture, it seems so improbable that Rami would have been made. Yeah. Walk us through that process,

like conceiving it, pitching it, having it greenlit. And then also you winning the Emmy is my first memory of you because you seemed totally unprepared for the win. I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I really want to know what it was like when you won it. So, yeah, it's funny. So it was the globes, but it also might as well have been like,

It's cool. Like, awards are just awards. Like, I've, you know, in New York's, like, dude, you're the guy who won the Oscar. You won the Oscar. And I'm just like, yeah. It was a globe, right? Not an Emmy. Or wait, which one was it?

It doesn't even matter. It actually was an Oscar. Like, I got an Oscar. Was it a Peabody? Yeah, he's a Nobel. He got a Peabody. He did get a Peabody. He does have a Peabody from O, right?

I have two. But you don't have a Pulitzer. That's Mona. Mona's got the Pulitzer. Right. Mona's got the Pulitzer. It's hard to get track of. Coming.

And it's, you know, Mona, Mona is, she talks about it a lot, the Pulitzer, too. Mona Chattabee, if anyone goes, I mean, she's a great artist that can't stop talking about her Pulitzer. So, you see her in the street, unless you want to talk about Pulitzer's, don't talk to her. Avoid the screen at all. Unless, you'd like to talk about a Pulitzer. Otherwise, go to her Instagram, Mona Shadabee, great art. Pulitzer art. We listened to our old episode with her.

Yeah. Yeah. At the time, didn't have a Pulitzer. Yes, exactly. I would do a new episode. Unless you want an hour plus about Pulitzer's. The making of it was, it was really cool. My buddy Ari Kacher, he had been making Carmichael show.

We'd known each other for years. And I moved to L.A. I acted on a multi-cam sitcom for a few years when I first got there. Which one? It's a thing on Nick at Night called Seed Head Run. It was with Scott Bayo. and Mark Curry from hanging on Mr. Cooper. Wow.

So it was like Nick at Night was trying to do like a throwback sitcom thing and it was one of those things that they like made but didn't mark it. It was and you know at the time as a young actor it was the perfect job because you're getting the experience but also like...

No pressure. No pressure. Yeah. But what was really cool was Mark Curry was touring doing stand-up and I told him hey I've been doing sketch comedy I've been making videos since I was I've been doing all these things and right before I moved to LA I tried stand up a few times

and he said really I say and then he asked me if I was doing a show in LA and I had something set up so he comes and watches me which I didn't think he would ever do and then he's like cool you're going to come on the road with me

you know and so I got this great experience opening for this awesome comedian and out of nowhere I was just able to like build up material and so my buddy, Ari and I we had gone to like my first ever LA open mic together

and then I do this multi-cam thing. He was making a multi-cam show the Carmichael show on NBC so we just started batting around let's do a multi-cam show together but then as I built out my hour long stand-up and all that I was like oh I think it's more of a

single cam show because I want to get into some stuff that I don't think is going to work in front of a live studio audience and anyone who's seen the show it is not possible to do in front of a live studio audience. Not even, there's not much that could happen. So yeah, I built up, it was funny, I had this really funny mishap at the Laugh Factory

where they put me up and two comedians who were supposed to go up after me were in the same car and they were late because they got stuck in traffic. So before I go on, they're like just run, just vamp. That's cool. And so I accidentally, you know, end up having this tape at the laugh factory of me doing like 45, 50 minutes. Whoa.

Which is this like holy grail of like, and I'm up there pulling and I'm like, here's an idea I kind of have thought of and here's like a thing and this or that, that, that. And then I end up having this tape. And so we just kind of. And it went well, I guess. Yeah, it went well. And it had a bunch of premises that ended up being all over our first season of the show. We used that tape. We sent it to networks.

We had kind of teamed up with Ravi. Nondin at 824 and we were kind of one of their first shows It was like us in Euphoria And so we just went out And and pitched it And at the time it was like

Really just right place, right time Because Hulu was just in this position Where they said, okay, we want to do original content In a real way They had kind of messed around a bit with it But they wanted to take like a real comedy push They had one original comedy I'm blanking on it

but it was really cool actually they just only played around with it a little bit and so we were part of their initial thing to kind of put some new comedies was us Penn 15 and I love them and Sarah Silverman did a show as well

and so we yeah we kind of got in there and it was cool it was just like this opening and the boom of the streaming at the time streamings is totally different business now we made that show

deal with them before Handmaid's Tale had even come out right? What? Wow Yeah this is really wild So I've been in development working with them, you know, since 2017 right? So yeah we've made three seasons

in that time you know but yeah so it was cool I mean like it was people were really receptive to it and the stand end up definitely helped and it was kind of clear like what we were getting at and and I think the thing you know that was really cool about it too was once we got into making the show we got to make the one we wanted to make it didn't feel that's amazing about having a small budget uh is that they're

they don't overnote you because they're like well that's actually so that's really cool to hear yeah yeah that's really cool were you unprepared at the globes or like not unprepared like you should have written a speech but like were you not expecting it that's what it seemed like watching at home but I don't know if that's actually I think it was like surreal. You know, I think going in, this stuff is always so funny. You know how it is. I know exactly what it's like to be surprised by a golden globe when you're right.

No, but you know how the award stuff and all the, like, it's like you have PR people and you have like your agents and whatever and everyone's got tabs on everything and they're like, all right. So I kind of went into the night knowing they're like, okay, you know, you're the door. you're the dark horse you know like you know there's we think it might go one of two ways you know so it's kind of like that thing yeah everyone loves a dark horse yeah people love dark horses uh so i i i kind of yeah i had an idea that maybe right but i think what you saw on me was probably just like overwhelming it was gratitude i was just like wow i can't believe this and then being out there and looking out at all these people and and and i just said the first thing that was on my mind which is i'm just like looking at scorsese and i just say okay dude like

I know you haven't seen my show. I'm positive. I'm positive. I'm actually positive. And that's where I was just like, you know what? And then I looked up and I said a few things. I don't remember everything I said, but I said a few things. And then I looked up and there's a clock and it tells you how much time you have left. And I had like almost a minute left.

But it was just, this is where being a comic was just the greatest gift in a moment like that. It was just like, just get out on the laugh. There's no need. You don't need to do the other minute. And I was just like, all right, see you, good night. Like, let me get out of here. And, you know, it was. It was a beautiful moment, I think, because of that.

I was just, you know, I was very grateful for it. I still am very grateful for it. And it was, you know, it meant a lot to my parents, which was really cool. Yeah, it was really fun. Yeah. That's really cool. Yeah, it was fun. I love Rami.

I feel like it's a masterpiece in so many ways. And it's a show that's meant a lot to me as someone who grew up religious, growing up in a religion that was a minority religion that not many people knew about. Yeah, it's meant a lot to me. I love that show. You've rightfully so received a lot of praise for being maybe one of the first shows to represent like a modern Muslim American experience. But then also a little bit of backlash, I think,

from some Muslims about the character of Rami being like flawed and maybe not the first representation that people want of their experience. And I wonder, I've also heard you say some really profound and thought-provoking things about the importance of being able to question faith and how Rami does maybe provide that space for people to question their faith

and I wonder what your response is to the critics who say that Rami is like a negative representation of a Muslim. Yeah, I mean, he might be for you, you know, for whoever feels that way. Like I think what's really cool is, like, like getting to create from the idea that there can be a bountiful amount of stories you know that come from people in our communities and in our tradition and so I go in

believing that I think you know anytime there anytime you make something there's like really valid critiques so it's like there are things that have come out that are super valid But then there are like critiques that have the weight of scarcity of like how could you do that when this is our chance or you could be the flag or this is what we've got or everything is so bad. And like all that is just that's like scarcity, that's fear. I've always just made the show that I want to watch. I've made the thing that feels relevant to what I would want to see and especially what past versions of myself would have really appreciated at different points in my spiritual journey

and that the Rami character is crafted with that in mind for me and all the characters in the show sit in that and so when that hits with people they really appreciate it and they really love it but it's also like anything that I think is you know potent or going for a certain vein. When you don't like it, you really don't like it, you know? And I think what's been fun for me is getting to just focus on the thing that I think could work. Because I think when you try to do too much or you try to do it for everybody, quality usually takes a real dip

because it just stops being direct. And so what's been fun, though, because it has worked for us as a story, we've gotten to make other things, right? So we're developing this animated show. We also got to make a show with Muhammad Amr. You know, we made Mo on Netflix. And that's the character that I think is, you know, much more in line. Like, I think the critiques you're talking about are like, oh, I want to see someone who's like, you know, fighting against the system. And I really root for them.

And, you know, and I think what was really cool about doing. Mo with him was getting to go in and say okay we can actually make that type of story too and that also aligns with what Moe wants to say and has to say in his comedy

so I think it's just really important to kind of find like the specificity to the person so I know if I tried to do this show where it's like everyone's rooting for me and it's like I'm just like lovable Muslim guy and like someone's like being mean to me at work like it doesn't fit who I am because I'm like

You know, I'm like a little, like a little, you know, mischievous shit. Like, my mom would be like, that's not you, you know, you know. You know, so it's like, not that she's, like, thrilled with everything I do on screen. But, like, you know, and the character isn't me, but it fits my sensibilities. It's the type of show I like. I like getting up to the line. I like sometimes crossing it and then walking back. That's, I just like doing it in stand-up.

And again, we take a lot of swings. I'm very grateful that we connect on a lot of them. some of them we miss on but at least it's like i'm playing the thing i want to do i'm playing in the tone i want to play in but then it was really fun to just like go and make this other show and it's like a whole other world whole other tone uh so yeah it's just about like you know and then we're we're higher like there's so many people who had never been even near a writer's room that are now have writing credits and have experience from working on our shows uh that are going to tell their stories that kind of fit you know from our communities

and I can't wait to see those That's like kind of my favorite part of it It's like there's all these people who got to see how it gets made And then you know Yeah there's people who have worked in any of the rooms we've done That I'm like cool I can't wait to like come in and work for you on your thing Like what do you want me to do Like how am I gonna help you on your thing

That's that's really I mean what I admire in what you're did It's not the only thing but it's something I really admire in what you're doing And I'm realizing it more as you say it because it is true that like the writer's room as a construct is a place that so few people have historically had any access to it. It's just really inspiring to meet and see and hear about other people doing it, like doing it and succeeding.

Like, that's really amazing, you know? It's so important that, I mean, we hear this it's becoming a platitude almost, but it's very true like we need to hear other voices. Yeah. TV is massively systemic. And so if you can get people into a television

writer's room, that's a huge achievement, I think. So, that's cool. No, it's really cool. And I think, you know, I've learned a lot doing it. And, you know, we'll learn a lot, you know, a lot more. But, yeah, that getting in is really, is really key. Because, you know, and you know

this too, and just working on stuff, it's like, you get an opportunity and you're like, all right, well, we need to make sure it's good. Who's done it before? Right. Right? So it's like, there's a reason why people keep rehiring the same people because it's like, you know, like, we have to deliver, right?

You know, and, and, and so there's a line of, like, how much you can experiment and how much you can kind of throw people who are new and green. And then also, so I think we've always tried to have this balance of, like, you know, who has never been in a writer's room and who, you know, wrote on Roseanne. You know what I mean? Like, how do we all get together here? Like, who's the guy that's, like, been around? You know, all right, let's see.

Like, what can you offer us? You know what I mean? And then who are the people who really, you know, just have something totally left field, who are new, who just have, you know, this, the raw, you know, thing. And then, and so, so that's been really fun. I'm intrigued by the decision to name the character, Rami, because there's got to be, you've got to know, go into it knowing that there's going to be many people who collapse the two of you into one. So what was the thinking behind that? I mean, this is kind of what I said a moment ago of, like, learning a lot, you know. Probably.

What was the thinking? I wasn't thinking about that. I'll tell you that. I was thinking about like plot lines and I was like, whatever, my name. Like, it was that. It ended there. I didn't want the show to be called Rami.

I found out in a press release. Wow. Because someone had floated it and then we were like, oh, it does work. We were playing with different, I didn't want it to be Rami because a lot of people say my name Rami. And so I openly said to everybody, producers network,

There's going to be a problem here, like a marketing problem if the show is called Rami, because people don't know the word, they're not going to know how to say it, like, whatever. And I was right. Yeah. It's a marketing problem. Which is fine. I'm grateful for it. It doesn't really matter.

I mean, it truly is one of those things, too, are like, getting to make it the right people find the show. You know, I hope we've kind of put something together that, like, you could watch even five years, 10 years, 15 years, from now and take something from it so that was always the goal in that you know it doesn't need to be like the biggest thing and and i think we've you know had wins that you know not even just award stuff but just even like we definitely cut through in a certain way which is really really exciting right um but yeah not a lot of thought yeah yeah yeah rami can you spill the beans on your new project poor things tell us something scintillating something you haven't maybe shared yet oh man Make sure it's juice.

No pressure, no pressure. I mean, the movie is, I love your ghosts, you know, I, like, organically. It's not one of those things where it's like, because I got to work with him suddenly. You know, I was always obsessed with him. I was always kind of, you know, hitting up my buddies from high school being like, have you seen the killing of a sacred deer? Like, you have to watch this movie. It's so insane.

And I remember seeing his first film Dogtooth and just being like, this is so deeply, you know, fucking weird. And I love it. And this film, I think, is, it's like everything I loved about Dogtooth mixed with everything I loved about the favorite. And then, you know, it's also just its own thing. And so I love the tone. I love, like, how much of a tightrope walk the story is. And, you know, it's like, it's a really feminist film. Like, it's, like, the most fucked up way to talk about feminism.

But, like, I think it's really effective in doing it. And I think that's really largely owed to Emma. It's probably my favorite Emma Stone performance ever, and I think she's an unbelievable actor, so that says a lot. And what she did and what she crafted is really, really cool. And getting to see her do it and then seeing it cut into the film was really, yeah, really impressive. Yeah.

So exciting. Yeah. I thought that of her, too, when we were doing UZA. and it's not this is my this is my favorite actually at the time that movie is so good though but that movie is so funny

and like you can tell from then you're like oh this person has emotional access like on another level very much yeah yeah yeah Rami I want to ask you just one more thing

professionally you're directing now so I know you directed on Rami you've directed an episode of the bear is that right can you sort of talk about what that's like for you and in Rami

like when do you choose to direct and not to direct an episode Are there sort of, is there a strategy? I always go into a season of Rami saying, I want to direct the ones I'm not in, which ends up being kind of a... No, actually, like a lot, because I'll like... Wait, but you're not...

Look, by the time we get to the third season, it's like I'm in, like, really fun. I stand through it, so the ones that I watched, you were in. I could... Yeah, a lot of the ones you watch, I'm in, but... But I always go in with that intention, but even, like, season two, I ended up having to direct a lot of the ones I was in,

just by the nature of the schedule, because it would be, like, cross-shooting and all that. but in general I really like directing when I'm not acting but you know I guess I have fun doing it when I'm acting too but um you know doing something like the bear was really fun because I have a really great relationship with Chris Storer who made the show and we have a shorthand but also we do things differently and so it was this really fun opportunity also because it was an episode in Copenhagen and so I was like well I was I got to go do research, right? And so you're just like talking to someone at like Disney travel and they're like, how long do you want to stay? And you're like, well, I need weeks really to figure out what I'm doing here. But it really was great to just go there and do that.

And so, yeah, for me, direct, it's so fun. It almost oddly feels like what I liked about anything artistic when I was a kid, which was just kind of having the camera and then getting to edit it and thinking of the music that goes on it. and I really love working with actors and kind of breaking down a script just because we do it so much when we're acting and then to get to do it on the other end

is, yeah, it's just like very fun. You know, I really love photography, so that's just like a hobby of mine. And it feels like I get to bring in that when doing that too. So that's, yeah, it's like a really fun part of the thing for me. Yeah. Well, man, I mean, we're not an ending

on a laugh but you could edit it so that we end on a laugh oh no we don't have time for that you don't do it okay uh no we probably will we'll take out the bit about um the bear and we'll just we'll figure it out we'll go back to something about masturbation and prayer and you know we'll figure um we actually didn't touch on masturbation

I believe you brought that into the conversation I would I'm gonna say we're both iconic masturbators we're in our own way for sure privately we pray publicly publicly Publicly we're You have to rhyme it Find a way to rhyme it I wish I hadn't But I did say it

That's another one You have control of the edit here And I think that You can use the thing I don't I don't We do actually have a last question We do have a last question

If you could go It's a left turn now back From iconic You're beginning Yeah Well this might apply Given the age What if you could go back

To 12 year old Rami Yes what would you say if anything genuinely I think I would say because any specific advice would be too tough

right because as a kid you're like it's too much I think the thing I would say is believe me being so hard on yourself is not actually that helpful

like it's not actually that helpful I think I had that like Kobe men mentality of like you got to be tough on yourself you know like but I feel like Kobe kept that on the court in a way but I don't know I can't speak for him but maybe just works for him but I think that like we really especially the immigrant mentality is like yo like let's we got to you know be tough on yourself work hard get there you know like everyone kind of has this um this thing I think

is very pervasive in our culture, like, in general, like, just American culture. But I think, I think that's what I would try to really get through to 12-year-old Rami's, like, don't, all this, like, beating up of yourself and all this, like, really tough, harsh inner dialogue that you think is shaping you into something better is not, you know. Yeah, but it's hard to tell, like, a 12-year-old to love themselves. It's a very difficult thing. Yeah, that's well, yeah. It's hard to tell an adult to love themselves and actually have that be taken, you know, sincerely.

I feel like the conversation went to so many places that were a pleasant surprise. And I mean, honestly, man, the best of continued success. Oh, you too, man. This is so cool. Thank you guys for having me. This was really fun. You can watch Rami on Hulu. You can check him out in poor things.

And you can follow Rami Yusuf online. at Rami. He was born in 91, I think. He's younger than Taylor Swift. That's my reference for everyone. That's crazy.