Podcrushed - [Rerun] Chace Crawford

Episode Date: March 11, 2026

[Original air date: July 12, 2022] Chace Crawford stops by and opens up about frosted tips, heartbreak, and being "okay" at football (this is disputed; we've heard he's quite good). He and Penn reminisce on their Gossip Girl days, while Sophie and Nava try to act casual.   🎧 Want more from Podcrushed? 📸 Instagram 🎵 TikTok 🐦 X / Twitter ✨ Follow Penn, Sophie & Nava Instagram Penn Sophie Nava TikTok Penn Sophie Nava See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

I guess the shell is more about finding your voice. And I still, to this day, that's such an important thing to meditate on that. Like, I have a voice. And I, you know what I mean? And sort of what do I care about? What, you know, what direction do I want to go? What makes me, what makes me happy? What, you know, instead of all this outside input telling you what you should do, you know,

you're trying to realize that don't listen to any of that. You know what I mean? Yeah, it's hard enough. Yeah. It's hard enough. at first and then it's tough to find. This is Pod Crushed. The podcast that takes the sting out of rejection,

one crushing middle school story at a time. And where guests share their teenage memories, both meaningful and mortifying. And we're your hosts. I'm Nava, a former middle school director. I'm Sophie, a former fifth grade teacher. And I'm Penn, a middle school dropout. We're just three beehis who are living in Brooklyn.

Wanting to make stuff together with a particular fondness for awkward nostalgia. Well, I struggle with nostalgia. I'm here for the therapy. Penn, today's guest is a good friend of yours. And I'm just wondering. Who is it? Who is it?

Who is it? Oh, my God. It's Chase Crawford. Okay. I feel like we have to acknowledge that Nava in a previous episode named Chase Crawford. She got to choose any person, but she named Chase Crawford as the one person she would offer her laptop to if he asked. And today we got to interview him. Yeah, it's true.

I know. He said he's going to listen to all the episodes. I know. I was like, oh, God. Don't listen to the Jen Ortega one. Just skip it. Skip it. Yeah, so I had a little mishap.

I'm wearing a dress. And when I got in my car, I was, like, really panicked because I was running late. I couldn't find my wallet anywhere. I'd been, like, searching all over my house. And it was, like, on the driver seat in my car. And when I sat down, I don't know what happened, but, like, my two bottom dress buttons popped off. And I could not go back upstairs because I was already running late to the interview. I'm like, there's no way I'm going to be late to this Chase Crawford interview.

So I just had to come with, like, my dress, the bottom half of my dress is completely unbuttoned. You can't see it on camera. But Sophie and David can. Scandalous. Unfortunately, I'm wearing biker shorts underneath the dress. But it's like, what a way to start this episode with, like, the person that I singled up. Nava, I feel like you just posted an Instagram story the other day about how you went around the whole house looking for your Apple Watch and then it was on your wrist. Okay.

Well, Nava and Sophie have given it away. Today's guest is none other than the glorious Chase Crawford. He's an old friend of mine. He's an actor who is currently starring in the series The Boys. and has been in films like what to expect when you're expecting in the Covenant. And he played...

Hold on, I have to study the Wikipedia hard. He played somebody named Nate Archibbled in a little show called Gisip Geryl. Never heard of it. Sounds like a hit. Stick around. Hey, it's Hussaminhaj here

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Hey there, it's Julia Louis Dreyfus. I'm back with a new season of Wiser Than Me, the show where I sit down with remarkable older women and soak up their stories, their humor, and their hard-earned wisdom. Every conversation leaves me a little smarter and definitely more inspired. And yes, I'm still calling my 91-year-old mom, Judy, to get her take on it all. Wiser than me from Lemonada Media is out now, wherever you get. at your podcasts. So I just want to start off by asking you if you could paint a picture for us of what you were like in middle school. Well, yeah, it was an interesting. It is an interesting time for everyone, right? I mean, I was born in Lubbock, Texas, which is a small town in West Texas. Don't remember it.

My first memories were in Oklahoma City. So my earliest memories were planning in that red dirt out there in Oklahoma City. But we moved to Minnesota for like four years. But I do remember. I do remember in Minnesota being four or five and realizing I'd moved to this place. And I remember having like a bit of an identity crisis, even at that age, like very aware of like, well, what do I relate to? Am I like Minnesota now or like, you know, and like saying pop?

And then I was like on the cusp of being 10, like the summer right before I turned 10, we moved back to Dallas, back to Texas. Ah, okay. But that was the first time I remember being a little bit like down, you know, where it was a tough, You know, so a lot of these kids had kind of been, at that time in fifth grade, they'd sort of been together since most of them since at least second or third grade, maybe, you know what I mean? And so I definitely felt like a, that for the first time, that pressure to like to fit in in a way,

you know, as one does when you turn, when you turn 10, I just do remember, God, there's awful pictures. So my mom thought, I mean, she always wanted me to try and fit in as well, not try, but like she wanted like, if whatever. like we all know what was in at that time. It was Jinkos. It was like Doc Marvel. The cap and hair pulled through the things like that.

Love it. Love it. Highlights. The like NSYNC, sort of. You got like like frosted tips. Oh, oh, oh, okay. Frosted tips. You know, I went through the braces phase with that,

with like the puka shells and the bad Abercrombie. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But in fifth grade, you're just trying to, you know, read Matilda and get through, you know. Listen, bro, I never read Matilda. What? You didn't? You're missing out. Yeah.

No, I didn't. I just read it again last week, guys. So good. Did you play sports, Chase? I did. I played, even in Minnesota when I was young, I played peewee football. I'm like, tiny. That's right.

You have a great arm, don't you? No, no, the thing is, like, when I got to middle school, my dad was kind of like, listen, son, I don't think we're in Texas. I don't think we're going to grow much older over 5-11 and 160. And so it's maybe you like golf? But wait, but wait, no, no, no. I feel like I remember you throwing a football at some point and just be like, damn. I can throw a football.

Yeah, you definitely, no, I mean, maybe not by your standard, which is like, you know, very high. And do you know that Chase's brother-in-law is like one of the most famous football players of all-time, Tony Romo? I forgot about this. I just need to, like, I can't throw a ball like Tony, but he's one of the all-time greats. Yeah. Brother-in-law, so it's not in the blood. Oh, yeah, yeah, no, I got none of that. Even my dad was a better football player than I was.

Wait, Chase, I have to ask, being from Texas and having your sister married Tony Romo, did she just, like, automatically become the favorite child? Tony became the favorite child for a while. The picture I have of your parents, Chase, correct me if I'm wrong, but is, like, just from that little tidbit about your dad kind of redirecting you in the way that he thought you would be successful. And then your mom, like dyeing your hair, getting the cool clothes for you, wanting you to fit in with all like the fashion pieces. I feel like they were really involved in your life.

I wonder what your relationship was like with them growing up. What was your family life like? Yeah, no, it was interesting. I mean, my parents were great. My dad's definitely a type A doctor grinder. You know, he's a very hard worker, highly intelligent. And my mom was actually a teacher as well, you know, master's in education. education and caretaker and was the fun teacher.

But when we were in high school, she would sub sometimes bring candy. Everyone loves Dana Crawford. Oh, wow. Yeah, but I was a little disappointed by the football thing. I mean, golf was, you know, I know it sounds crazy and nerdy, but like in tech, golf's like kind of a big, you know, a big thing down there. I took it seriously. I ended up playing on a team in high school.

But I did miss that team. It was so individual. It was really that sort of got. to me a little bit. I missed the team aspect of a social person. I feel like I really need that in my life. And so, yeah, so I was always, I felt like I was always searching for those connections. Sometimes the detriment of my own, you know, I don't know if people pleasing is the right word, but I was, I was willing to sort of almost be anyone to try and make those connections with other people. You know what I, you know what I mean? Yeah, I relate to her for sure.

It was very like a mercurial, like, you know, type of a time. Oh, yeah. When did you start playing golf? Oh, I think I was about 11. Yeah, about 11. And you're very good, aren't you? I'm okay. Again, I feel like your standard is very high.

When you talk about sports, you're like a... I feel like you're very good at them. I'm just trying to remember. I feel like we were somewhere and you threw a football. Back to the football. He has a tattoo of you throwing a football. And I immediately felt like I was back in middle school and I was like, oh, shit.

can't touch that football. It was one of those things that sort of is interwoven into the school experience. And people put it, especially in Texas, put a lot of weight on competition. And the parents can get kind of caught up in this, in this, you know, competition themselves. Oh, we've seen Friday night lights. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And that was not my experience at all. but it was it's a very it's there's a lot of weight put on competition in sports down there so it was uh you know

yeah i was you know i was kind of on the golf team seventh grade braces the blonde highlights and you know it was uh not my greatest phase i mean it's a very fragile phase for me you're supposed to do all these all this schoolwork and kind of know what you what you want to do and and and be good at math and good all these things when you're also sort of dealing with falling in love for the first time or you know what your concept of love is at 15 or 16 and dealing with those feelings as well, which is a whole other, you know, a whole other ball game. So let's just go there for a second. Yeah, let's go there.

Was your first heartbreaking this time? I was probably 14 to 15, yeah. Yeah. 15 was when it like all came crashing down. But tell us about it. A girl who was a best friend back in the glory days of like dial up phone with the cord and like you're on the phone for hours, you know what I mean? And it was just funny how like how you realize really quickly.

that like what you perceive to be reality could not be someone else's reality, right? As far as like, you know, romantic feelings for someone else. And that was tough to have that correction happen. You know what I mean? I feel like I think I wrote like a really sappy, like note, you know what I mean?

Like a page or maybe three page long, like crazy thing. And it probably like scared her off. But yeah, that was, I remember that being a very difficult thing to go through at that time while also juggling. school because at the time that felt like such a meaningful, it was like the most meaningful relationship in my life as a best friend as well. So that was, you know, and I didn't really have anyone to walk me through that either, which was, which was interesting, trying to have to, like, piece it together myself, was, was tough. Yeah. You know, at that time, those feelings

are so real. And I think sometimes we just forget, like, we can be dismissive, like, oh, but you were 15. But, like, no, like, you're 15. Like, that also formed you. Like, that has, like, a profound influence on... Yeah, it can leave a mark for years. For years. Totally. How long do you feel like that first heartbreak left a mark on you? How long were you sort of grieving it?

I feel like that left a mark on me probably for my entire high school experience. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And that can also, I feel like they can also shape the way you deal with rejection in the future. You know what I mean? It's an interesting thing, you know?

Yeah. Did it feel like where you were from in Texas was a small town when you came to L.A.? Yeah. It did, actually. I mean, again, like Texas can be such a bubble. I mean, it was, I mean, and going to school from fifth grade from 10 to 18, I mean, those people know all the stories about you, you know what I mean? And all the shit you spilled all over yourself at lunch, whatever.

I mean, it's like you can be, I did feel freer. I finally felt like I was becoming more myself and branching out. But then I basically, I got to college and everyone felt like they knew exactly what they wanted to do. And it scared the shit out of me. I mean, I thought I was sort of like, I don't know what I want to want. want to do with my life and I feel like I should know this. And I remember feeling that so strongly at 18, you know what I mean? You also had it at four and five years old. Right, right, right, right. No, no, no, no, sorry. I mean, I'm both making a joke and serious. Like,

crises of identity are very serious. And when you move and you're in these new environments, they're very, it's, it's huge. I guess the like the impetus for me like finding acting, like in, in high school, I got into art. I was, I was a drawer and a painter and, and I loved photography. We did like black and white, had a dark room lab there, and those were some of my favorite classes. And so I always kind of had this side to me that was just creative. And I decided to take, I took a year off of school. And I was while I was working, I was valeting cars, but I also ended up going to this acting class. And it was, it was, it was the miser technique, you know, the repeat and everything and the whole thing. It was so abstract and weird,

and I loved it. I really loved it. It was kind of therapeutic and like this weird cathartic thing and I thought it was great and I was also armed with sort of like naivete and got a very small agent and started to send me out on auditions from there and yeah there was like a two or three years of doing of doing that so was was acting really not on the radar before that you were like no I mean at first I thought this is something I can just kind of try to break out of my shell while also trying to figure out if I went back to school like what I would what I would do right I mean I guess in my head, I'm like, oh, just go back and, like, do business or whatever, you know, classes. Wait, when you say break out of your show, what do you, what do you, it's not like I don't know

what you're talking about. Right, right, right. I guess the shell is more about finding your voice. And I still, to this day, that's such an important thing to meditate on that. Like, I have a voice. And I, you know, and sort of what do, what, what do I care about? What, you know, what, you know, what Do I want to go? What makes me happy? What, you know, instead of all this outside input telling you what you should do, you know, you're trying to realize that don't listen to any of that. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's hard not to.

Yeah. It's hard. Not saying it's still very quiet at first. And then it's tough to find. My experience has been, I imagine you share at least some of this that it's like, you know, in some ways you're empowered, in some ways you're finding yourself, in some ways you're finding your voice, quote unquote. but in others you're, I mean, you're literally giving voice to other people's words all the time. You're wearing clothes that are not yours. You are a place in a position where people assume they know you and they actually don't.

And it can be a really, what's the word? It's like. You're disorienting too. Yeah, it's disorienting. There's dissonance there because sometimes your voice can get lost in this avatar. Right. And you can appear to be quite empowered in a few ways. But then you're quite disempowered, feeling at least, in the ways that matter most.

you know you can be like super successful but kind of getting swallowed up in like somebody else's voice well i remember you talking about this too i mean we were so young when we did when we did gossip girl and i remember even talking after like maybe a year to after you know we'd all kind of gone and you and you said something to the effect of like oh man yeah like i'm still just sort of processing all of that as i'm sure you are too and it and it and it and and you're always so intelligent in depth. It made me, I'll never forget it because it made me think,

you know, I was like, wow, maybe I, I haven't really like fully processed. We just, what we went through? Because it was so,

it really was crazy. I mean, that, that whole thing, people do feel like they know you. And they also feel like, hey, you have a billion dollars and you're,

you know, that, you know, you're sat and you're, you have the perfect thing going when it's really, you know, there's all these other layers. interesting layers to it

and we were like that was our those were also kind of our college formative years. It was yeah. I mean we were still kind of kids when we got out you know not not entirely I was 25 but but yeah it was I mean I feel like I'm still I feel like I'm finally at a point

where I'm able to reflect on specifically the Gossip Girl years and synthesize what I'm grateful for and what I can love about it and just accept the frustrations I had at the time as just like the struggles of youth, you know, being being, being made extreme and magnified by having, I mean, when we first moved to New York City, our faces were on

billboards in Times Square, you know, and I remember the time just being like, yeah, there's like that processing thing. There's so, there's no time to process it. Because, dude, we were, I mean, I feel like from, what day was that? It was, it aired on September 19th. Oh my God, that's right. That was like the exact day on Tuesday. I remember. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because it was on network television. And then from that day on, man, until that thing ended. I mean, has anyone ever stopped calling me, Dan? Not really. Not really. That was 15 years ago. And it's like, you know, and I mean, but at least for those next six years, it did not stop. Right. How can I like make it succinct? I mean, it was just such a wild time. It was so novel as well.

New York City I have such like this romanticized love for. I still do. I'm still in love with that city because of it. But we were given the keys to the city at a crazy time. And there was a lot of, you know, a lot of partying and, you know, and access to different things that you can sort of get caught up in. That was at the same time okay in your early 20s and a lot of fun. But also, you know, yeah, you are kind of like Mickey Mouse to Disneyland.

You know, people see you and you're like, this character in this city. Wow, that's true. That's actually funny. That's a funny metaphor. You are like Mickey Mouse at Disneyland, which is to say, which is to say you're a faceless person inside of a suit who cannot be seen or heard.

Yeah. Who's deeper than we ever thought. Who everybody's taking pictures with. And inside you're like, yeah. And it did create for me at least. I'm a private, I'm a little bit more on the private side.

I mean, I'm extroverted, but it created a little bit of parents. I don't know about you, Penn, but I, like, I feel like outside looking in, you feel like you dealt with it amazingly. But I definitely had gotten a weird paranoia about photo and stuff. I think, I think on the inside, we had a lot of the same experiences. And then maybe in some of the most superficial ways, we had slightly different experiences. Because, like, I never felt that whole keys to the city thing, I felt like I didn't know how to get into the club. I didn't know how to get, not on the show, but into literally the clubs.

I remember, like, I, because, you know, I didn't go out as much as the rest of the crew. And I, and I often felt uncomfortable because I didn't feel like I was as easily able to get in. I mean, the one time I named dropped myself to get into, I mean, I did it once because, like, I wasn't being let in. And I was like, and I was actually going out with Matt Settle. It was, I was going out with Matt Settle and he really wanted to have fun. And so we go to the box on like a Tuesday night or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And we had just shot there.

We had just shot an episode there. And I wasn't being let in. And I was just like, and I didn't really want to be there, you know, but I was like trying to show Matt a good time. And so I talked my way in by showing them my IMDB. You know what I mean? And so this is what I mean. The story actually gets like kind of funnier and worse that I'm not going to tell on a podcast.

But I'm like this is, and I mean this in the best way, Chase. It's like it's funny because I actually feel like we can just laugh about it now. But, like, I suspect that you have never had to show a doorman your IMDB to get into a club. And I'm just saying that I have. And I don't know why it's different. I don't like, am I right or am I wrong? Have you ever had, have you even? It was because I went out way too much.

It was a problem. Everyone knew you by name. Yeah, which is also another problem. I was jealous of you. And no, I have shown, I have shown someone in the grocery store in my Wikipedia page because I didn't have my ID. And I was trying to buy like a case of beer or something like that. Oh, God, this feels weird.

I got to, this is my age is on. Does this count? You know what I mean? That's right. Oh, no, but man, I know I hear you. And yeah, there was that thing of like, I don't know. It was also like that thing for me of like, I guess this is what we do in New York on the weekends.

Like, this is how we be social, which kind of distorted my reality. of that for those years afterwards you know it was like wow that wasn't real life that wasn't a normal Friday night you know like no and we were we were in our own way ushered into these roles that everybody expected us to fill you know right and I think

and I mean what you're talking about that people pleasing thing which again like I very much have I think a lot of actors actually naturally have this because you're you know you're just you're trying to please a lot of people frankly and I mean you always struck me as somebody

who constantly found themselves surprised to be a center of attention and very uncomfortable with it. They're a very true assessment, dude. Yeah. And I mean, and I would imagine that started once you started growing. Once you, I mean, I know you could, you know, throw a snap. What do you say? How do you snap a? Throw a spiral.

Throw a spiral. We'll edit it, Penn. Say it again. Say it again. No, but what is it? You snap. What's the term? You say snap.

in a way. What's the, what's the term? You take the snap and, uh, and, uh, I guess, I sound like such an idiot right now. You said it again. I'm just trying to. No, but really, like I said, I feel like, you know, you, because, like, people think that I am a symbol of something or objectified. And I think you have that experience even more, like, even more than, and I mean, I have it a lot. So I don't know, man. I'm just saying, Like I always really admired the way you just were so gracious with like virtually everybody in like every scenario because I think that and you know. Man, yeah.

You know, it's not like maybe it's not kosher for you to say, yeah, that's hard. But I'm saying I watched that and I was experiencing myself, but you were experiencing it even more. And I think that and I know what that's like. And I actually think that was hard. And I think you dealt with it really graciously. we were all you know uh you and all of us included trying to find our way and and and and and and but yeah like again like that wasn't a normal way to meet you know to meet anybody to make relationship to meet girls to to do anything it was so normalized as like okay you're gonna do this on a Friday night and get in anywhere you know and kind of hop around and that was uh it was it was intense man it was it was it was a lot and uh yeah and then after you know when it when it all sort of ends it I, you know, I, I, I kind of describe it like, like, again, like an athlete or a quarterback or someone getting, getting injured or ending, ending their career, like, instantly.

And your identity is just kind of, like, pulled out the wugs pulled out from under you. Like, all those crew members. I've never heard anyone describe it like that. That's incredible. Yeah, like the hair and makeup girls, you wake up in that, and Richie, the driver's out there and you get to have your morning, like, jam session with him, and you're laughing and talking sports, and you get hair and makeup and those girls are your therapists. You know, we're all laughing.

It was just such, I mean, I, we had, I mean, you know, for all the crazy stuff, we had such a good time. I mean, I, we all really had some good laughs and good early mornings and good late nights on set. I mean, it was a special time. And to have that pulled away at the end of it, too, for me, was really jarring to have to move back. I felt like I had to move back to L.A. I definitely didn't. But to move back and be thrown in back there, I was, I didn't handle it too well for a while.

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and just thinking that can't be true? Well, I certainly do. 2025 brought us some ridiculous far-fetched health claims and some especially terrifying changes in public health. What's in store for us in 2026? I'm Chelsea Clinton, and we're back with season two of my podcast. That can't be true. Follow along and catch up on season one wherever you get your podcasts. So I have heard that you and Ed live together. And I remember actually when I heard it was like several years ago before I even met Penn. And I remember thinking like, why didn't Penn live with them? Obviously, I didn't know anything about like the industry. It's not like normal for

actors to necessarily live together. But I have thought about it. And I've thought about how the plot of the first season was like Penn is lonely boy. And Nate and Chuck are like, you know, really good friends. Penn's the outsider. But Serena draws him in. And in real life, Penn and Blake were dating. You and Ed were living together. And I'm just wondering like, what, how did that impact dynamics? And Penn, did you feel like an outsider? Well, I survived for one thing. So that's good. But I'll tell you what it is. I remember what it was because we all got there, um, we're saying at the Ian Schroger Hotel. What is it?

The Gramercy, which was, yeah, we shot the pilot and we stayed at the Gramercy. It was a beautiful hotel. It was beautiful, an amazing little bar with a pool table down there, and we're all sort of getting to know each other. Chase is also killer at pool. Chase is also killer at pool.

We love pool games in New York, but Penn was sort of late to the, we had heard they were trying to, you know, get him in there, and, I mean, I don't think Penn showed up to, like, the day before shooting, or maybe we'd already started filming, and so, you know, I had had had a little

bit of time. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so Ed, we had simply just had a dinner. And I think Ed was so, he had never really spent any time in America. I didn't even understand New York prices, but we were kind of a dinner like, yo, do you want to like, it feels like we should probably, it's expensive. We should, like, do you want a room together? And he's like, yeah. He never even saw the place. Me, my mom went like the summer before after got picked up and third place we looked at. We signed it. I had my dad, like, loan us the first and last month's the security deposit rank because we had no money. I mean, we had, to pay my dad back and never saw the place.

He just showed up in New York and we were sleeping. Like, I think he slept to open his suitcase and slept on it. Like, one of the first night. You know what I mean? Like, it was like that. We were like 18, 20, you know, 1921 years old. But, yeah. Penn, did you feel like an outsider?

How did that sort of dynamic play out? Yes and no. Not really. I mean, see, I'd already been in television for so long. I was like really unsure about whether or not I wanted to continue. And so I went in, I went in. I went into it being really unsure and conflicted, which is evidently my MO.

And so I just was like, you know, I think I was just socially anxious. I didn't necessarily feel like an outsider. I mean, that word now, I'm just imagining the way people will hear this and interpret it. I know, they'll be like, lonely boy, actually lonely. Only boy, still lonely, still a boy. That's not.

It's like no news of any podcast. Just Pen Vagely is still Dan Humphrey. You know, it is, I think what is fascinating is how this dynamic that exists in your, you do weirdly start to in some ways echo the dynamics of the show you're on. I don't know what that is exactly. That's like a, that's almost maybe more of like a niche psychological. phenomenon that would be interesting to explore but not here but it is i mean look i don't think anybody can be cast that's far outside of their quote-unquote type i mean unless you're obviously playing against it

for a reason but i don't think anybody can really i mean until you're i don't know much older and you're like a committed character actor in some capacity i think you know when you're when you're 19 20 years old you're going to get cast as some kind of version of yourself but then made very two-dimensional and simplified So I think we were all just conscious of, you know, how people perceived us. That was definitely, you know, I mean, the greatest struggle I had with Gossip was simply that people thought I was like, Dan, in any aspect of me, in any aspect of me that did resonate or did share anything with Dan that they could then lead people to just ever more assume.

Like, oh, yeah, he is like his character. You know, that is basically when you're on a show like that, and I'm not saying it's right or wrong. It's just, it is like one of the most frustrating and disempowering feelings in the world, you know, to you. I'm not saying in the real world, I'm saying to you when you're going through it. It's, it actually, it puts you back in middle school and you feel like these, you know, your feelings are all you have at the end of the day in the beginning of every day. And people don't realize that when they're saying it. They think it's like unintentional and harmless and they're just like, oh yeah, you know, but it is, it is. Yeah, you're right, man. Yeah. So I mean, for me it's like,

again that was the processing I just feel like I went into it already being like oh shit this is gonna this is gonna be interesting you know and and so that's why the second I got out of it I was like okay I need to

deal with that right right right we all did though man I mean yeah it was very very intense and again it wasn't a lot of aspects of it weren't real real life I mean you know we were sort of on display out there for a while so Yeah.

You know, on TikTok, there are a bunch of intimacy coordinators from Hollywood who are becoming pretty well-known on TikTok and posting videos about what it's like in that industry, what they do with actors to help them through intimate scenes. And then there are other actors who will come on and talk about how much they wish they had experienced that. They had had an intimacy coordinator. And just thinking about, like, from the little I know of Penn having to do really intimate scenes on you, I know both of you had to do intimate scenes on Gossip Girl. I'm wondering, I have been thinking, like, for women, I think it's a little bit more acceptable to speak up. It's hard, but it's becoming more acceptable to say, this is making me uncomfortable. And I wonder if that's also the case for men or if there's more of an expectation that you'll just go for it, no matter how uncomfortable it is.

I will say, I think you're right on that. I think it's changing, but I do think the expectation is there with that, where there's just like expected to sort of, you know, be putting a corner, oh, do it. You know, they're good. He's good. You can do whatever. But I will say this is the first,

this past season, which we shot 21 in Toronto, it was the first time. I'd worked with an intimacy coordinator. And she was amazing. Yeah, she was so great. And we just basically took a time, you know, an hour or maybe an hour and a half

a day or two before the scene. And it was nice to get it choreographed. And, I mean, literally choreographed. And also, kind of blocked the scene, rehearse the scene. Hey, and even the actor, it was so natural with the actress, she's amazing. Katie Breyer, yeah, it was just, I'm going to do this now. And it was just so when you show up, it was all, it wasn't like, okay, block and here you go.

And then action. And it wasn't like a surprise. I think those things, especially dealing with something like that, it has to be choreographed. And it was just so much nicer to have the coordinator come in before, are you good? This is what you're going to be wearing, you know, here. in this situation, I was like, this is awesome, you know? I know, I'm very comfortable. I'm like, how has this not happened since the dawn of, you know, of film?

Well, because cinema has its origins and exploitation of people, is why? I have been reflecting. I feel like women in podcasts and other interviews, I often hear people ask women their thoughts on the Me Too movement and whether it's changed anything. And I never heard an interview or ask a man that question, and I think it's relevant to both men and women. So I'd like to ask both of you, how do you feel about the Me Too movement? Have things changed? Are they changing?

Yeah. I mean, I definitely see the changes. I think it's just good to be honest to bring stuff into the light. You know what I mean? Like, why does all these things need to be covered up? Our people and, you know, all the enabling, you know, that's happened and sort of abuses of people in positions of power. I think it's, I think it's fantastic that that conversation has been happening. I think those things are slowly being dismantled. I mean, I know it's probably not a perfect process or it's, you know, can maybe be messy in one way or the other, but it's for the best to bring that into the light, you know. I mean, probably even the fact that intimacy coordinators exist is probably... Yeah, that's definitely a product of that. Right.

Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt. You've probably dealt with it more than I have on your show. I only had like a couple scenes last year. My show's weird. One was with an octopus. I was back to say, didn't you have a scene with like a sea animal? Yeah, yeah Right

Got us through it, Chase How did you Exactly what I signed up for When I got in the business I'm like that I made it This is exactly what I knew I wanted to do But no

But yeah That was always interesting So there was like At least a laugh And a smile With that coordination Yeah you just Did you actually get that coordinated?

We did get that coordinated Yeah, yeah I mean no but that's real Because like I have scenes Where I have to Fake masturbate Right You know I was gonna say

Fain masturbating. I don't know what sounds weirder. And even that, it's like, you know, I realized I've now done it so many times on camera. It's a strange, you don't think it's going to be that big of a deal. You read it. It's actually kind of funny or it's creepy, but it serves a story. It is what it is. And then you discover in front of a crew of people with a camera on your face, knowing that like, you know, in all likelihood, millions of people are going to see this, you're simulating masturbation and it's very i have to say sometimes those scenes are are harder than with a person because yeah it's just like all right this is what i'm doing

you know i have a moment to the cameras yeah i mean this is like this is what i'm doing there's nothing distracting you from that camera being right there and it's it really it's like the the feelings that go through my mind when i've had to do that is like i'm not even sure exactly how to parse out how I do feel. But there's, but there's, it's, it's just, I don't know, I don't know, you know, it's all, it's all a work in progress. I'm just imagining what a conversation with an intimacy coordinator would be like for a scene where it's just you masturbating.

You'd be like, now, how, yeah, I don't know, I don't know how that would be. I don't know how it would be. Yeah. This is definitely staying in the episode. Definitely. But you have an interesting story about the season one, like the very first masturbation scene. Do you mind sharing it? Is it that I, I did ask them to,

They wanted it to be more romantic, right? And you asked for it to be creepier? No, romantic's not the word. Romantic not the word. I think every time I've done a masturbation scene, which is so far every season, at least one, I've always gotten the note to make it less creepy. And I'm like, guys, they say like, close your eyes or go faster or go slower. And I'm like, what?

This man is fucking murdering people. Getting off on it, literally. And he's masturbating in the street. You're saying, I'm making it creepy. How is it that I'm the one making it creepy? So I think the way I don't remember what I ended up doing I don't remember what's in the cut

But I From what I recall in the first The first masturbation scene in the first season Which is I gotta say this interview is just taking so many terms David is just shaking Is it as bad as is all not usable So I just remember

I just remember like I wouldn't close my eyes And the director came up And he was like This is Leitolen Krieger I hope he listens to this and laugh He was like, buddy, I just, I think you got to close your eyes. And I'm like, this is when you draw the line on this murdering. And I was so, you know, always have been, and I've been publicly conflicted about the role and all this stuff.

And so I was principal and I was almost kind of ready and I was like, why? And he was like, I just think it's not like, yeah, I don't remember exactly what he said every day. He was, he was very graciously communicating that he thought it was creepy. And I was like, well, that's the fucking, that's the. point. Right. You don't want to romanticize it or like make it seem less creepy than it is. Yeah.

Are you softening? Yeah. And I guess, and I guess Ayo, and I guess that's, that's just this strange line that we're always walking on our show. And I suppose many of those are, you know,

like examining what, toxicity in sexual culture while also trying to be sexy. Right. Chase, it's interesting that your character, The Deep on the Boys, is also revealed to be a creep in a pretty similar fashion. Yeah.

Like episode. one it's like a it's obviously very dark 180 but yeah yeah yeah it was delicate scene yeah it was pretty uh even in the first like few episodes there's like the tonal shift of me like saving a dolphin from ocean land and like he gets ejected through the front windshield and you know but so i'm like you know what i'm just going to do i'm just going to try and and and play every you know every scene and be as nuanced as possible as real as possible is what we always talked about just just let the absurdity you know speak for itself and yeah Yeah, people either think he's, you know, such an asshole, such a creep.

And then some people enjoy the comic relief. But throughout the past few seasons, yeah, he's kind of gone on this journey. And people are starting to kind of see him in a different light. It's really weird. Yeah. And interesting. I mean, I don't think he can ever be redeemed on this show, you know, and no matter how many seasons.

That's my line, too. I always say that. Do you? Well, it's kind of like if you start up with somebody who's good, the only place they can go is down. And if you start out with somebody bad, the only place they can go is up. That's just the nature of storytelling.

I do like that the writers of our show like to play in the gray area, you know? Like, as is human nature, there's nothing as really black and white villain and good guy. And it does ask that question, can you forgive the unforgivable? Is the unforgivable, you know,

able to be redeemed? I mean, it's just, I do like that that question is there, you know? Chase, I want to ask, I read that you grew up Southern Baptist and I'm so curious about that. Like what influence did that have on you, sort of where are you now with spirituality? No, yeah.

So the school we went to is a Christian school. I actually don't know if it was like any specific denomination, but Southern Baptist is obviously the biggest one. I mean, in retrospect, that was all we knew. I mean, it was, you know, when you take Bible class in every grade and curriculum, you know, you sort of get, it's a bubble. You know what I mean? it's definitely a bubble.

And, you know, I connected with it in a real way then and take a lot, take a lot from it still, you know, to this day. And I think there's so many good things and bad things and how religion can be weaponized. You know what I mean? For sure. I think it loses people and the people that subscribe to it can lose what it's really meant to be about, right? which is either, you know, personal relationship with Christ or what have you,

that all these other things come into play. And as we're, you know, even seeing, you know, what's going on in the world now, I mean, it kind of can take a... What's going on? I don't know what you mean. First of all, I think religion is a safe topic for everybody. Yeah, right. She's like Penn invited me onto his podcast, and he's asking about me too.

Religion. Yeah. We're just toggling between masturbation and spirituality. All the light topics. No, I like it. We're trying to set the bar high for our editor. You know what I mean? I go back to this one thing sometimes with you, Penn,

but we've had, even as the show went along, I feel like we became better friends. He's just always a very, again, insightful, you know, intelligent, thoughtful person. Are you single? and but I do remember sitting in a diner and sometimes I would I started to like connect and vent to pen and I know he's been through a lot you know with different things growing up and so we sort of we were in a diner one time and I was just talking and sort of word vomiting inventing and needing some sort of

just support and I don't know what I was exactly the answer I was looking for but but I remember you I'll never forget it because it's something. I go back to, but you were just like, you know what, man? And we're young. He's like, I've just learned that, you know, as you get older, at some point, you have to just like push aside all of those issues you have, whether it's family, people in your past, and just say, and just say, fuck it, and take responsibility. So you're able to move on.

But that I've never, I've always gone back to the power of fuck it. I mean, like, you know, and it sounds crazy, but like, it's like, you're, you just, you're basically like, man, I know, like, we always try and do circles in our brains, trying to weed through different relationships where it's familial in the past or what, but he's like, I've just learned as you get older part of being an adult is taking responsibility. And no matter what that looks like, and that was always very powerful. You've said many insightful things like that, but I still. But fuck it was what stayed with you.

The power of fuck. It sounds like somehow I had my shit together better than that I do now. Is that true? You've always been this old. Beyond your years. You were saying old man. Say it, Chase. You've always been this old man.

So I love him, man. That's really sweet. Yeah, that was great, though. I think amongst the men on the show, I think you dealt with a unique pressure. You know, I really do. And I feel like you dealt with it so graciously. For instance, the way it all kind of came down on Blake and Layton

was more than the rest of us. And then out of the men, you were the third. Yeah. You know, that's all. I just think, like, it's so good to see you. doing well now and like I was even watching some bloopers of you on the boys and to hear you

one thing that we always we always said on set this is not Chase knows this we were always like the second this guy gets into a comedy it's just gonna change everything because like Chase's sense of humor is still I think a little bit of an

untapped mind he has like this Jim Carrey-ish like vibe that is that is just until you know him I don't know you know you know I don't know that you can know it. But yeah, it's so nice to see you doing well and happy. I don't want to make too many presumptions.

We all got challenges. But, you know, I just, it's nice to see you growing up. And, yeah, just owning it. Taking responsibility and fucking it. Okay, so the last question that we ask everybody, Chase, is just if you could go back to 12-year-old Chase and just have one minute with him and tell him something, what would you want to say?

Oh, that's good. Don't take yourself so seriously for one. It's all going to be okay. And something along the lines of don't sweat, don't sweat all the small stuff. You know what I mean? And life is short. So, yeah.

Chase, if Sophie and I wanted to start a podcast about people's college experiences as like a rival to this one, would you host it with us? Absolutely. I love it. to rival our own show. I'll have my people

reach out to your people. We're kind of done with Penn. Hour to a week, let me know. That's great. Yeah. It was so nice to meet you. So nice to meet you, Chase. Thank you so much.

Nice to meet you guys too. That was great. I love that conversation. Up next, Penn reads today's listener submitted middle school story. Stick around. Only 18 states require sex ed to be medically accurate. And relationship classes?

Let's fix that. I'm Shan, an A-Sex certified sex educator with a masters in psych. And on my podcast, Lovers by Shan, we make learning about love as mind-blowing as making it. Celebrities and fascinating people share an intimate story.

Then we uncover the lesson for all of us. Watch Lovers by Shan from Lemonada Media on YouTube or listen wherever you like your podcast. I feel like I really want to see Chase again. And I just, you know, I felt, I think what I realize is like I've, the same way I felt with Leight and I think is like, I've wanted to be really respectful.

and protect him. Because, you know, there's just one thing that you go through on gossip girl is just, you know, you get a lot of just so many things in the press blown out. And it's like, you know, want to have like just a warm conversation that goes somewhere deep and interesting and surprising, but not that it has any kind of like clap back to it, you know, and that's just so hard. Chase touched on that too. He touched on feeling a little bit of paranoia after Gossip Girl and after sort of having

your life taken from you in a way and have people. like assumptions about you and have access to you. I really loved watching you and Chase interact and like the mutual respect and like admiration for one another and that you took a moment to express it. I felt really touched by that. And I'm not kidding. Like when we would play sports, I would have these pangs being like, you know, he's very athletic and I feel like a child. And actually I'm athletic but not with football.

You put me in the... So are you more of like gymnastics, figure skating? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Synchronized swimming. Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

I'm not going to name the ones I do because you're just going to make fun of me. Okay? I'm not going to do it. On that topic, our listener submitted story for today takes place at a football game. It's called Friday Night Bleachers. Enjoy. When I was in seventh grade, I was small and awkward. Rex, a very athletic eighth grader, who, by the way, was a giant, like a 6-8 giant, had a crush

on me. I don't know why, but he was smitten. He'd follow me around the halls of our rural Wabash, Indiana middle school. His towering figure was a beacon, alerting everyone in the school that he had a crush on me. I mean, seriously, other kids would gasp when they saw him towering over me everywhere I went, just following me like a giant rook. It's the one after the bishop. Anyway, me? How was I feeling? I was intimidated by this older, giant human boy, and I did not welcome this lurking presence by my locker or outside English class or math class or every class, but I was also way too shy to shut it down. So after a week of this nonsense, Friday night football rolled around.

I was sitting in the bleachers with my two only friends talking, not paying any attention to the game. When a young messenger hailed me, caught my attention, and alerted me to the fact that my presence was being requested behind the bleachers. My friends and I, we cautiously followed messenger man down. Standing there, ever-looming, ever-presenting, was wrecked. and several of his less huge bros. I got to take a second to point out that these kids were the most athletic guys at school

and therefore also the most popular. So just back to Friday nightlights. I greeted the boys shyly. And after an awkward few moments of small talk, Rex asked me to be his girlfriend. Oh, no, I panicked. Oh, I think my dad's here to pick me up. I got to go. And as I turned to peel away, Rex flanked by his smaller boys, cried out,

wait, how about a hug? and without missing a beat, I replied, how about a high five instead? Before he could respond, I'd trotted over to him all little and smacked his huge hand, and he stood there dumbly. Without a second to lose, I turned around and I ran towards the parking lot where no one was waiting for me, remember? And as I sprinted, I could hear the uproarious jeering laughter of Rex's friends. I'm sorry, Rex. You can catch Chase Crawford in The Boys on Amazon Prime,

or follow him online at Chase Crawford. Podcrush is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navakavalen, and Sophie Ansari. Our executive producer is Nora Richie from Stitcher. Our lead producer and editor is David Ansari. Our secondary editor is Sharaf and Twizzle. Special thanks to Peter Clowney, VP of Content at Stitcher, Eric Eddings, Director of Lifestyle Programming at Stitcher, Jared O'Connell and Brendan Bryans for the tech support,

and Shruti Marante, who transcribes our tape. Podcush was created by Navakavalin and is executive produced by Penn Badgley and Navakavalin and produced by Sophie Ansari. This podcast was created by. is a ninth mode production. Be sure to subscribe to Podcrush. You can find us on Stitcher, the serious XM app,

Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. If you'd like to submit a middle school story, go to Podcrest.com and give us every detail. And while you're online, be sure to follow us on socials, or we're telling everyone that your mom still walks you to the bus stop.

You don't want that. It's at Podcrush, spelled how it sounds, and our personals are at Fembadjli, at Nava, that's Nava with three ends, and at Scribble by Sophie. And we're out. See you next week. You know, I know so many people who've, like, had their first kiss on camera.

Wow. You know, so young that they had their first kiss on camera. That's so crazy, yeah. Which is interesting. You know, it's... It's very interesting. My voice goes... Trauma, trauma.

I'm trying that to just put it all down to the ground. This is what I'm trying. I don't want to sound cynical or contentious. I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm fine. Stitcher. You know, when you're just going about your busy day, and a voice asks you something like,

Why do people have crushes? Or... Do dogs know their dogs? The Brains-on podcast is here to help. Every episode answers tough questions with funny skits, cool facts, and more. It's a science show for kids of all ages, whether you grew up with JFK, MTV, TLC, or TMZ.

Brains-on is for you. Listening may induce uncontrollable laughter and turn backseat squabbles into harmonious car trips. Find Brains-on. wherever you get your podcasts. Are you looking for ways to make your everyday life happier, healthier, more productive, and more creative? I'm Gretchen Rubin, the number one bestselling author of the Happiness Project, bringing you fresh insights and practical solutions in the Happier with Gretchen Rubin podcast. My co-host and Happiness Guinea Pig is my sister, Elizabeth Kraft. That's me,

Elizabeth Craft, a TV writer and producer in Hollywood. Join us as we explore ideas and hacks about cultivating happiness and good habits. Check out Happier with Gretchen Ruben from Lemonada Media.