Podcrushed - [Rerun] Julia Louis-Dreyfus

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

[Original air date: June 6, 2023] Julia Louis-Dreyfus (Seinfeld, Veep) proves why she’s such a national treasure. Authentic, charismatic, and thoughtful — Julia shares about standing up to a major studio when they wanted to sue her as a young actress, how fighting breast cancer was a lot like surviving a shark in open waters, and why she stays open to life’s great mysteries.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Lemonada. My mom made me a super cute dress that I wore to the dance with this Lily Pulitzer fabric and really cute ribbon straps. It was actually pretty fab. And I got to the dance and God damn it if that other girlfriend, the one who made the cut, as it were, was wearing a dress in the same fabric. Oh, and Julia. Yes. My mother made it. Yeah.

Isn't that weird? That's crazy. That's scripted. Welcome to Pod Crushed. We're hosts. I'm Penn. I'm Nava. And I'm Sophie.

And I think we would have been your middle school besties fighting over whether we're team Brittany or Christina. Oh, guys, it's Britney, bitch. How was your week, Sophie? My week was great. I was in Paris.

And actually, I was there at the same time as Nava. And I got a couple messages from Podcrushers who were like, oh my God, are you doing a meat and greet? because they could see that both Nav and I were there. And we had just been in New York with UPenn. And so it was like a continuation of that time together. Did you just unironically say pod crushers?

I did. Have you fully embraced? She loves it. And you had a problem with it, didn't you? You guys have said it so much. But yeah, it did make me think we should do some meeting greets sometime. But yeah, I was in parents with my parents and David. And it was lovely.

I was so ready for Paris to be, for me to feel like it was overreact. but it's not. Turns out it's not. I was also in Paris and then I went to a few other places in France. The first week was amazing. The second week it was like, oh, this is getting kind of expensive and we're kind of all over each other and, you know, starting to like get annoyed by one another. And then my sister, my dad and I all got sick at the end of the trip and I was pretty sick when I got back to L.A. My first couple days back were really rough. But I will say I had hired a dog sitter she had already left. My dad was not back in. So there was like no one to take care of the dogs but

me while I was very, like, very nauseous, like having a hard time just standing up. And the dogs were so loving, like my little dachshund, Louis, held my hand twice, which he's never done. He, like, clasped my hand between his paws and Oliver... With his paws. He just, he kept, like, holding my hand to comfort me. I swear he knew. And then Oliver would jump on me and just kiss my face, like, way more often than usual. And I felt like the dogs were like, we're with you, we're with you. And they weren't needy at all. I was really, like, I kept crying over, like, how much I love the dogs and how sick I was. They knew you had French COVID.

They knew. They knew. My week. Actually, I think it was really lovely. You know, it was like, I had like a halfway vacation because these guys were on vacation. So I was with my kids a lot. And, oh, man, by the way, the playoffs, I'm just really loving Jimmy Butler and the heat. To which Nava and Sophie have a response of.

Miami Heat. I am shocked. Miami Heat. Yes. It's in the right place. teams that I could name and that's one of them. So anyway, I'm just like, I'm like watching basketball. If you guys really knew me.

You're watching basketball, we're watching Succession. Yeah. Yeah, Wayne, who has better taste? Today, we have Julia Louis Dreyfus. And so for a lot of our listeners, that's all I need to say, that's who we got. Fast forward 15 seconds. For those of you who don't know, I mean, she started out on SNL, but that's often forgotten because she played Elaine in Seinfeld.

and then she was the vice president in VEP. So I don't know. I mean, she's carved out a singular space in American pop culture and comedy. She's got nine SAG awards, eight any awards, two critics' choice awards, a Golden Globe,

and in 2018, she won the very prestigious Mark Twain Prize for American Humor. Penn, is it true, you pooped your pants doing a TikTok in front of her? I'm just appreciating the way you said pooped. Because here's what adults say, Nava.

They shit themselves. Okay. Anyway, rumor has it. Rumor has it, guys. Rumer has it. Stick around. There's no shortcut for saving time, but saving money is simple. Just combine your car and home insurance with Bel Air Direct and save.

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Must be 18 plus to wager, no way to take the reins Responsible gambling.org It will start this way, we'll start now. Okay, now? Yes, hello. Yes, hello. Welcome to the show. Oh, thank you. I have to ask, can you give us a snapshot of middle school

Julia, where you were physically, spiritually, mentally, you know, what was going on? Well, I am very happy not to be in middle school anymore and I'm very happy not to be that age. I developed

early. Are we talking about that kind of thing on this show? Anything you want to talk about, Julia. Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, anyway, I developed early. And and I was on one hand, I was happy to to be getting breasts and so and so forth.

And on the other hand, I was very unhappy with my body all at the same time. It was a mashup. I was just not super confident. I was, oh, God, yeah, it was just miserable. Actually, I'm thinking about it now. Like, I remember once there was this dance, and there was this dance with boys. That's what started to happen. That's right.

They used to have like mixers. So you'd have with the boys' school and so there'd be a dance. And the day of the mixer, I got my period. And yeah. And I remember being so like not knowing what to do. This is too intimate all of a sudden. I realize everything I'm about to say. But I'm like, I got to get out of here.

I can try and pump the brakes. We can edit. There are a lot of periods. stories on our show. You're in good company. Surprisingly, Penn has a period story, which has made it on to the show. That is surprising. I'm dying to hear about that.

Anyway, I just remember very vividly coming into the dance, and I was wearing, I think I was wearing pants, but I was feeling very uncomfortable in my own skin, and I was wearing a kotex, a sanitary napkin, and I remember doing like a thing where I was looking at my My girlfriends said I was sort of like, like, I tried to make a joke about it, and I was sort of like walked in kind of like into sort of a squatting. And I thought it was funny. And then after I did, I thought, oh, that's not funny. And it. And it was, it actually is funny, isn't it in the telling. It was really funny. Yeah. But I don't think anybody, I remember my memory is everybody sort of peeled away from me at that point. But anyway, yeah, it's not a great time. Julia, did you know how to talk to boys since you were at an all-girls school? Like, did you try to approach boys at that dance? In fact, when I was really little, like when I was in fifth grade, we took, I took a dance class, like a cotillion type of class, you know, and I remember the first time, and, you know,

we were so young, fifth grade. I mean, like they would have a break in the middle of this dance class where you learn the fox trot or the, you know, the box. I don't know, whatever. And the boys, they would give us cookies and juice. And the boys would, like, spit ice at the girls. That was, that was the way they flirted, if you can call it that. But I do remember the first time I, in the class, I sort of touched a boy and I put my hand on his shoulder and my other hand in his hand.

And I remember thinking, oh, wow, his shoulder feels like a regular shoulder. Oh, my gosh. That's really cute. Yeah. Yeah. Like he is a human being. He's another person, just like me. Yeah, exactly. And I remember, I think it was at that same dance class that I was dancing with the boy once. And we were sort of spinning around doing some sort of whatever the move was, around and around. And all of a sudden, he leans in and he just kisses me really quick. And then he sort of pulled back and he goes, who did that?

Was that genuine? Like, that was not something. I think it just came out of his mouth. I don't know. And I didn't even respond. That's so funny. Yeah, who did that? Julia, you told this story about having this co-text pad between your legs and doing a bit.

And I just thought, oh my gosh, okay, she was obviously already so funny. Because I think about myself at that age, I would have never done that. I think I would have, like, maybe. retreated instead. And so I think it's so interesting that that was your natural instinct. And I wonder, what was humor like for you at that time in your life? Did you already know you were funny? How were you using it? No, I don't. I mean, it's not that I thought I was unfunny, but it was just sort of baked in. I guess it's my sort of go-to. And I think in our family, it was sort of there's a culture of making jokes and cracking up. All very much enjoy laughing.

in inappropriate moments. Yeah. I mean, that's a piece of it anyway, but yeah. Would you seek comedy out specifically? Or like what kind of art were you gravitating to at that age? Do you remember? Any kind of performance. It didn't matter what kind.

I was just, you know, getting in school plays. I mean, I did the cherry orchard. I was head of the Thespian Society. I was just like all as many plays and shows. as I could possibly get fit into the year. And I still feel just amazed that I'm able to do this for a living because it was really then an extracurricular activity that, you know, you had to still get your homework done.

You had to, you know, study for this exam. But I was, like, desperate to get to rehearsal or work on the performance. That's what I was really laser focused on. So the fact that now it is a focus is a complete treasure. Julia, I listened to a few episodes of your podcast, Wiser Than Me, and I was listening to the episode with Fran Libowitz, and she said that her mother told her boys don't like funny girls. And you talked about that briefly, and you talked about how maybe there is some truth to that because there's a lot of power in humor. And I wonder, what was your experience being a funny person at that age around? boys. Did you notice that? Yeah, I know, I certainly grew up with, I mean, not all boys feel that way, but I certainly

knew boys who might some, not recoil exactly, but not like if a girl was being sort of assertively funny. I know those kind of boys, and they're not boys we want to be with. FYI. That's true. That's good. Yeah. That's important. I think that being funny is a great,

it can be a great sort of superpower in certain situations. Yeah. Okay. I know I've asked a lot of questions in a row, but I will ask this one and then I will zip it. Why? Isn't this what we're supposed to be doing? Because I'm a boy who doesn't, I don't prefer power and humor coming from my co-host. So if you could just zip it up after this, okay.

I will, that's my fun. No, I have to tell you, Julia, that I am obsessed with the fact that you talk to your mom at the end of your podcast episodes. Oh, good. When people ask me my career goals, I'm like, it's to start a podcast with my mom. That's my ultimate plan. And I just love. By the way, why does that be ultimate? Just do it.

I know. Well, she's on this one right now. Yeah, but she could do too. She could do two. Sophie, do you want to do two podcasts? Sophie do two. I don't know. I think you have to.

Julia's told you to do it. I know. I might. I just love that you call your mom at the end of the episodes. And I wonder about your relationship with your mom. Has it always been close? What was it like in middle school? How has it evolved over the years?

I also heard in an episode of your podcast that you entered into therapy with her at the age, like around 60, which I think is incredible and probably was. such a rich experience. So yeah, anything you can tell us about your relationship with your mom and how that's evolved. My mom and dad divorced when I was a baby. And right around the time that they divorced, her father actually died by suicide. So it was just her and me for, you know, almost four years. We were kind of this duo. And I think that being a new mom, mom. She was, you know, young. She was 27 when I was born. And being a new mom, under these circumstances that were challenging to say the least, the mothering part was, I think,

kind of a savior for her in terms of keeping her sanity. And then she married my wonderful stepfather and my dad married my wonderful stepmother. And so I was a member of two families. And so I would say that we have a very strong connection just based on even just what I just told you. You know? My mother, she's a writer and she is a poet. And she, at the age I'm going to say of, I believe, 75. maybe 80.

She published her first book of poetry. And so, yeah, she is somebody who is intellectually curious, which is why I thought it would be fun to fold her into these conversations unwiseer than me because she's an intellect. And she does things like she goes on, she's 89, she goes on theater trips, she goes to lectures, she takes classes. This woman's a dynamo. So she's very much my role model, certainly when it comes to aging and how to embrace life fully. Actually, that spirit of your podcast, I have to say I really loved it, but it didn't even realize why until I was kind of deep in it.

And the way that you're speaking about maturity, and I mean that literally, like getting older, which hopefully means in a lot of ways getting wiser. And the fact that, I mean, we all know this, but like, you just don't hear women in high profile public places, at least, speaking about age in this way. You're doing it so directly, so naturally, without hesitation, without any, like, I didn't even think about it. You know what I mean? It was just like, oh, this is like, this is interesting. It's compelling. All of this makes sense. You're having incredible people reflect on their lives and what they've learned, which is like, yeah, why wouldn't we want that?

And yet you realize there's this. crazy barrier I think for all people but of course a unique one for women there's a unique barrier like that's not spoken about in this way and you actually

I feel like in your first episode with Jane Fonda or maybe you're even saying in the intro you're talking about how like half of the world's population we're not getting their wisdom you know and it's like look what we're missing out of it's unbelievable yeah we could benefit from this

you know we're sitting on a gold mine we're sitting on a gold mine here. How much money is the podcast making like that? Kaching, Kaching, Kaching. That's all I'm going to say. Yeah, I started it for the money. Julia, just while we're on the topic, what's been the most surprising part of the podcast or like anything that's sort of come up again and again, like what are you leaning from it that maybe you didn't expect to?

Well, I mean, you know, there are certain things that people have said, of course, that I take to heart, I think both Ruth Reichel and Amy Tan both said, talked about doing things that frighten you and how important that is. But I think, you know, generally speaking, it's made me happy doing this podcast. I've just, I've really truly enjoyed these conversations, you know. I'm authentically curious to hear from these people. And actually, in fact, when I, I was speaking to Isabel Iyende, I made a joke. I said, my God, she was describing her life and how good she's feeling right now. I can't remember how old she is. I think she's 82 or 83. And as she was sort of characterizing where she's at, I had this feeling like, God, I can't

wait to be in my 80s. For real. I mean, it was like, there's a lot of stuff that you can let go of. Yeah. I think it's hard to be young. Yeah. Actually, that's what you say in your first episode. That's right. And that's kind of why we do what we do. Exactly. It's like the beginning of all of this. That's the beginning. That's right. Yeah, exactly. You're at the beginning. I'm doing

the end, is. But the, but I mean, it is hard to be young. And there's an enormous amount to look forward to as you age. And the more experience you get, it's just you can, I think maybe relax into yourself, hopefully. So much. I mean, even, I'm 36, and I know that sounds very young, but, like, it's not 20. No, it's not. And I feel better than ever.

Like, the pressure from, like, about 14 to 24 was just immense. Like that. I think being in your 20s sucks, actually. I think it can be really difficult, you know? And I was, by the way, I was working and stuff in my 20s, but I didn't. There was so much, what's, the word discomfort.

Yeah. Yeah. So I like, I personally, it's made me feel even happier about getting older. I'm happy you're doing it. Thanks. Julia, we have a couple more questions about adolescence and then we'll talk about your amazing, illustrious career. But we have a question we ask everyone, which is to share about their first love and

heartbreak. Well, I mean, I had a boyfriend. in high school who I was really I really liked him a lot and then I found out that he was cheating on me with his girlfriend that he'd had before

I'm trying to remember yeah okay I'm not trying I'm not saying anybody's names I have to be very terrible probably best so I had I told him I gave him an ultimatum and I said it's got it's either me or her and of course he chose her so that was a real bummer and then again

back to another fucking dance there was a dance and there was this and my mom made me a dress and this is the 70s now

there was a dress label and they had fabrics too it was called Lily Pulitzer I don't know if it's around anymore I don't probably It doesn't sound like it.

Very preppy, okay? Very preppy, sort of bright colors. And my mom made me a super cute dress that I wore to the dance with this Lily Pulitzer fabric and really cute ribbon straps. It was actually pretty fab. And I got to the dance and, God damn it, if that other girlfriend, the one who made the cut, as it were, was wearing a dress in the same fabric. No, Julia. Yes.

My mother made it. Isn't that weird? That's crazy. That's scripted. It's like she spied on your mom. Yeah, not cool, not cool. Stick around. We'll be right back.

Welcome aboard via rail. Please sit and enjoy. Please sit and stretch. Steep. Flip. Or that. And enjoy. Via rail.

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Oikos Pro Feed your strength. Visit oikos.ca for more details. I want to ask about your new movie, which is called You Hurt My Feelings. And in the movie, which we had an opportunity to screen, it looks like one of the central themes is sort of how family members hurt each other's feelings the most when they're actually trying to encourage each other. And I was wondering if that, like, resonates with you. And I don't want to, like, give anything away, but there's this amazing scene where you find out your husband feels a different way than you thought. And you're trying to say that you don't care, but you obviously are like emotionally, like really, really caring. and I was wondering how that is for you and Brad. Has there ever been a project that he wasn't that enthusiastic about?

Are you guys able to talk about that candidly? The movie centers around this couple who have had a long and happy marriage. She's a novelist, and her husband is a therapist, and she's just written her second book, and she hasn't heard from her agent about it, et cetera, et cetera. And her husband has been read multiple drafts. He keeps telling her how much he loves it. he thinks it's fantastic.

It's a wonderful book. You know, feel good about it, et cetera, et cetera. Only then does she overhear him saying to her brother-in-law how much he hates the book. And her world is rocked to the core. So the movie is about, obviously, truthfulness and honesty in relationships. and also it also examines, I think, like, are you your work? Who are you separate from your work? What is your worth separate from your work?

And so with my husband, I do very much rely on his input for projects that I do, you know, be it a script, be it an edit. I'm always going to him for, I, I, I need his thoughts. I need his brain. In fact, I'll say, can you put your brain on this? And so I do rely on that,

and I also rely on him to tell me the truth. So if something is not working, he'll tell me. And he's, you know, he's kind about it if it's a proper criticism. He can find a way to be kind about it. And sometimes we might argue, but it is,

and vice versa, by the way. So, but I rely on that. As a creative person, I really rely on his brain. I find that to be so relatable. My husband, David, is a producer on the show, but he is an artist, and I'm also an artist. I'm a visual artist, mostly, and he's a musician.

And I really rely on his brain. He doesn't rely so much on my brain for his work. but I rely on his brain. And we've had to like time and time again when I like show him a project, something I'm working on, it's time for him to give feedback because he will be honest with me and thoughtful.

But we've had to really figure out what is the best way. I'm also sensitive. So yeah, it's just, it's very relatable. I think that's a hard thing as an artist to separate yourself from the things that you create. Totally. And in our industry, I feel like in particular, it subsumes people and their families.

I don't necessarily always mean in a negative way, but it's just like the hours alone are all consuming. They can be. They can be, yeah. And then just, yeah, just like the impact of like a successful artistic person in a family, I think can be just huge. Totally. you've been a part of of a handful of really iconic things something that we think a lot about here is the theme of rejection

and there's something that you've spoken a lot about in terms of like when you first got on SNL and you were with Larry David you speak about like just feeling kind of or at least he was feeling quite shafted on the show and I was shafted too yeah for sure so you're having this like

what surely felt like in a way you'd gotten to the summit already and then you were feeling immediately rejected like was that... Like this isn't at all what I thought it was going to be. Yeah. It was hard. It was very difficult. I mean I had no idea how to perform in front of a a live television audience.

I didn't go there with a bag of characters, a bag of tricks that I could pull out and do X, Y, or Z in a sketch. I did not have that. I was just, I thought people would just write for me, and I would do funny sketches, you know, but it's not like that. It's pretty, it wasn't like that then.

It was kind of pretty dog-eat-dog. And so, yeah, it was a rough go, but I learned a lot. It was like going to graduate school. I was there for three years. I learned a lot. I grew up a lot. You know, I didn't come out of that show a star by any means.

In fact, hardly, nothing. But I came out with experience. I had a lot of experience after that. And I think it helped me figure out my certain kinds of priorities that I had from a creative point of view. So that was good. Julia, sort of Lauren Michaels famously came on, cleaned house. You were one of the people who was let go. and I'm sorry to ask you to revisit a dark day potentially,

but I am curious, like, what was the next day like for you? Do you remember it? No, I don't. I just assumed, I wasn't, can I tell you something? I was so low on the totem pole that it wasn't even a consideration that I would have been kept there. I mean, and I didn't get a call like, you're not coming back. I never heard from anybody.

Yeah. Well, see, it was a different administration at S&L when I was there. It was a – Lauren Michaels was not there. It was a guy named Dick Ebersol. And so he was there for those three years that I was there. And then when he left, everybody who was on the show left, actually, I think the whole cast, tell you the truth. And then Lauren came in and did his thing, which is understandable. So, But, no, I was not even remotely crushed when that happened. And were you excited then to be in New York and to be, like, were you trying to be in theater then? I was trying to be in, I was trying to get jobs.

I was auditioning and having no success, none. Was Seinfeld the next big project? No. What happened was I went to L.A. for pilot season. They used to have pilot season. Yeah. Remember pilot season? Oh, yeah.

That's what brought me at 12 years old to L.A. Right. So, but I don't think there's pilot season anymore. There's vestiges. I think there's, I think it's like there's still a time. There's a period of time in which. But it's kind of scattered.

It's all mushy. Yeah. Anyway, and I went there and I did get a pilot. And it was a spinoff of family ties. And it didn't get picked up. But it did get me noticed by more people at NBC. And then I got another series that was short-lived. It was two years.

called day by day, and I was the snarky neighbor next door to a daycare, preschool. And, yeah, so that's, you know, things started to happen. You know, I wasn't like, you know, huge, famous person at all, but I was getting work, and that was meaningful. Is it true that you were about to, like, sign a development deal with Warner Brothers before you did sign? Yeah, right. So then you definitely were like, he were doing stuff. Well, after I did day by day, then Warner Brothers wanted to make a development deal with me.

And we did. We made a deal. I had a creative out based on the material that was being developed. And it turned out it didn't work out this material. And so I did bow out. And maybe two days later, I got these Seinfeld Chronicle scripts sent to me. by Larry David. But what was interesting is that then Warner Brothers threatened to sue me. Because they thought

that I had pulled out of the deal because I had gotten these other scripts when in fact that hadn't happened. And I was really scared because, you know,

it was Warner Brothers. That's horrifying. Yeah, that's terrifying. And I was just this girl who was an actress. You know, I mean, I wasn't like, I didn't have, I felt very small because I was.

And in fact, I had, you know, representatives who were saying to me, you better just give them their money back, give them their money back, you know. And I said, but if I give them the development money back, which, by the way, won't that imply that I did something? dishonest that I broke the contract. And they're like, just do it, just to, you know, get rid of this problem. And I called, because it didn't sit well with me. And so I called Gary Goldberg, who was the head of he's the guy behind family ties. He was a creator. He's since passed. Wonderful human being. He did family ties. He did Spin City. He was a huge force at NBC and in television specifically. And I called him

and I told him this story, and he said, you know what? I don't respond well to bullying. So just tell them to fuck off and don't give them their money back. And it really emboldened me to stand up for myself. And so that's what I did. And they just went away. That was the end of it. That's amazing.

Wow. Julia, that's incredible. Yeah, it is incredible. That was a seminal moment for me. me when he said that. Because it was bullying, by the way. Julia, when we heard that you might come on the show, I started to rewatch Veep. I watched it the first time.

Obsessed with it. One of my favorite shows ever. Thank you so brilliant in it. In the rewatch, I was watching with my sister, actually. We were just in France together. We were like crying, laughing at the scenes between you and Tony Hale. They're just so good. And I, so I had sort of two related questions.

One is, like, how did you and Tony get through those scenes? And I won't presume that it's him. Who is the actor that you've worked with that makes you break the most? Those are sort of two things I was wondering as I was watching. Oh. Well, I don't know how Tony and I got through it because we had so much delight in making that show and coming up with all of the bits and bobs of physical things that we sort of discovered in rehearsal. And, you know, it was like we were doing a dance, you know.

And so we have, he would really break quite a lot, but I would break too because he made me laugh. So I was just, I don't know what to tell you. I was just enjoying it beyond belief. And he definitely, he's the one who certainly has made me laugh. Well, I mean, in recent, yeah, the most. I mean, for sure. He's just, it is, his performance is so sublime and so authentic and tender. And that's who he is.

He's a very tender, wonderful guy. God, you should have him on this show. I've always been so fascinated by him. I love him. I mean, ever since the rest of the development, like I just. Oh, you need to have him on this show. Yeah, I would. Because this is really, this is like his, talking about middle school.

Ooh, all right. You know, I was thinking about that before we had you on. and I'm glad you confirmed. Yeah. Julia, I don't know why I want to point this out, but I feel like he's always in your face, too. Like, I've never seen two characters. He's just like always physically,

and I just wondered, was that ever uncomfortable to film? No, I loved every second of it. I loved every second. No, the closer the better. But you said it's like a dance. I mean, it's not like a dance. He was like, you know, he was like, you're finding ways to be around you.

He was always trying to, like, touch you an extra second. It was so interesting. Julia, you've been in so many, like, several iconic comedic franchises in American culture. And I have to bring up Seinfeld. I love Seinfeld. I told her not to do it, but she was breaking. I really wish she would not discuss it. Sophie.

It was in the contract. I will never talk about that show. I love it so much. I watch it with my husband. I want to know, was there a moment when you realized, like, oh, this is huge. Like, this is going to be a cultural phenomenon. Or was it just kind of, did it just happen?

The first time it sort of truly struck me was when we were doing the finale. We shot the show at CBS Radford in Los Angeles, and we were on stage nine, which you could see the, from the gate of the studio, you could see the entrance into stage nine. And so when we were, so when we were doing the finale, they had to put up big barriers by the gate because there were people on the other side with long lenses trying to take pictures of who was going to be in the finale. Wow. And I remember thinking, seriously? I mean, does everybody, I mean, come on, really? Do you give that much of a shit?

I mean, you know, it's just. And then I remember thinking, wow, I guess this is really. a big deal. I mean, it was a big deal to me personally because I was doing the show for nine years, so it was my heart and soul, of course. But to see the impact in that moment, that's when it kind of first struck me that this was maybe ginormous. And I mean, so long-lasting. There's only a handful of shows that I think have been that long-lasting and have picked up new audiences like generation, generation after generation. But there's also just not. nothing like it. I mean, it's just...

It's a funny show. There's no damn. Funny's funny. Yeah. Funny's funny. No, and I mean, it's like, it's just, it's plain. It's, it's a rarely objective fact. It's just, not anything else. Yeah.

Julia, I'm sorry to go back to VEP. I did want to ask you one other question because you're sort of famously political and activist. I was looking at your Instagram and it's like so, you give so much real estate to promoting social causes. Yeah. And your character, the administration that she's part of, is, you know, abhorrent, I might say.

Yes. But at the time that you started playing the character, you know, there was one administration in place, and then the political situation in the U.S. started to change, and things that felt like satire and your show started to feel like, this is what happens in real life. Correct. And I was wondering how if your feelings about the character changed, and did you ever start to feel nervous, sort of as the political landscape changed

while you were doing that show? I'm not sure I felt nervous, but I did start to question how we really could pull off this satire. because, you know, the Trump administration was doing really a better version of our show, except it was tragic and not funny at all. So, yes, you know, the satire of our show, the tenor of it kind of changed, and it was like we needed to... Change?

Outdo them. It was more of a challenge. and sort of one of the reasons we kind of stopped doing the show. Not the only reason, but one of them, yeah. But it sure was fun, I'll tell you, man, I just love making that fucking show so much. I really did. It's very special.

I did. I mean, yeah, it was great. So does Baltimore feel kind of like a home away from home now? Yeah, the first four years were in Baltimore, and then we moved it to Los Angeles. Okay. Which was nice because the, the Bolton, of all of our actors and writers at that point, actually,

were in California. So it was not everybody could be with their families. Yeah, it was actually, that's a long time. It was hard to be away. The romance of being on vacation wears off, I mean, on location, wears off pretty quick. The one thing that was great is that we really bonded as a cast and with the writers as well.

We were sort of, we all kind of clung to one another. And I think that showed up on screen, actually. There was a familiarity that we had with one another that was something we could really tap into, which was nice. And we'll be right back. Julie, I heard you share in another interview, sort of a comparison between how you approached your breast cancer diagnosis and a time when you had to make a recovery in the ocean.

And I wonder if you can sort of tell that story, and tell us what the metaphor was. I was in the ocean, and I was swimming around. I was far from the boat, and we were actually, my husband, this was many years ago. I mean, I think it was like, really, I mean, I was like in my 20s. Anyway, whatever. And so we were doing this.

It was a science boat, actually. Okay, none of these details matter. What am I doing? Okay, so anyway. I'm taking notes. We love it. Yeah. What month do you think it was?

Now, I'm trying to remember what bathing suit I had. Exactly. And I had one of those snorkels that goes like, anyway. So I'm tootling around in the water, and my husband comes to the bow of the boat. And he goes, Jules, I don't want you to panic. But you need to come back to the boat now. There's a shark in the water. Oh, my God.

Right. Doesn't that just make you die? Did your heart just hearing that? Dropped. Yeah. Dropped. Oh, my gosh. And so I thought, okay, there's the ladder.

And I was far, okay, I'm telling you, I was far away from the boat. Okay, there's the ladder. I see it. I'm just going to keep my eyes focused on the ladder. Actually, as I say this, Mike can feel my heart raising. Yeah, that's intense. And so. How, can I, this is a detail I do want to know.

How were you swimming? Was it like a... Yeah, because you're trying that to draw the shark's attention. Yeah, I was doing the... Yeah, I was trying to actually swim, calmly and I was doing which is freestyle

I was swimming freestyle because that's I can get I'm faster the crawl is not going to take me there quick enough and so or the butterfly

can you imagine you can do it I don't know that's a lot you're making a lot of noise in that water so anyway did you see the shark

did you see the shark or you were just like okay I need to swim No, my husband saw it. I did not see it. And my plan was not to look at the shark. Yeah. My plan was to look at the ladder.

And so that's what I did. I just kept my eyes, focused on the ladder, and I was just thinking about the ladder. Literally. It was like, you know, probably without even realizing it, I was just meditating on ladder. And so then when I was diagnosed with breast cancer, which was like having a shark in the water,

I just focused on the ladder, which was just getting through this in increments and onto the ladder not considering the danger, not focusing on the danger, but focusing on the way out of the danger. And that's what I did with, that's the mindset that I had when I was going through my cancer romp as it were. Cancer romp. Yes. That's a new one. That's a new turn of phrase.

It is. I hope it doesn't take off. It's a viral moment that we will exploit. Your insensitivity to millions of people. I'm allowed to do that. I'm playing the cancer card. We'll let the internet decide. Julia, I think that's such a helpful.

Obviously, the patterns of thought that we have, like, influence illness. I think healing is also tied up in, like, the mind and our will. So I think that's really a helpful mindset, like to focus on healing instead of illness somehow. Like that helps the healing process. Yeah. And also I think, you know, little steps, focusing on the little steps to get you there. You know, manageable parts, as my son's teacher used to say, when a project would feel too overwhelming. Let's just break it down into manageable parts.

and that really applies. God, does that apply? That applies to so many things in life and it's so useful. It's so useful. From the mundane to the most critical aspects of life, I think. We all confront death

in ways big and small all the time and eventually we all do it. What's been your views on mortality and spirituality over time and where do you live? now. My father passed away, what year are we in, 2023? So he passed away in about seven years ago now. And I was with him when he passed. And that was an extraordinary, and I spent a lot of time with him. of his life leading up to his death.

And I found it to be a remarkable experience to have been able to be with him during that time. And this is going to sound odd. I actually, Isabel Iendi and I sort of spoke about this on the podcast. Being with him and waiting for him to pass what felt very much like waiting for somebody to give birth. There was a similar, I'm not suggesting it was a joyful thing, but there was a similar feeling of awe and mystery about it. And now as I say it, I start to cry. But it really, the parallels are there for certain. Yeah.

And so I am a believer in... those mysteries, you know? I'm not a religious person in the standard sense of the word, but I certainly, I mean, something's going on we don't know about, right? That's what I would say, something for sure. And I'm interested in that, and I have enormous respect for it. Yeah. I'm a Baha'i, and there's a prayer in the Baha'i writings. There's a line in it that says, like, make them or make me a confidant of thy mysteries, which I think is so beautiful. Yeah. It's gorgeous. Yeah. That's beautiful. Julia, we have a final question that we ask every guest, which is if you could go back to your 12-year-old self, spend that little time with her. What would you say? What would you do?

I would tell her, it's going to be okay. It's going to be okay. That's it. Yeah. Do you think she would listen? Definitely not. You have to pass through. You've got to pass through the difficult stuff to get to the calmer place, I think. It's been such a delight, such an honor. Thank you so much for giving us for time. Thank you. It's been so nice to talk to you guys.

And yeah, what a nice conversation. Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Thank you. You can watch Julia Louis Dreyfuss's new film, You Hurt My Feelings, in theaters now. You can listen to her show Wiser Than Me, wherever you get your podcast, or you can follow her online at official JLD.

David's just going to keep coming in, like, there's some things I need to handle in view of the camera. You got to intro him at the end. You got to intro him. No, he'll kill me if I do that. Will he kill me if I do it? Yeah, he's turning red. This is his actual middle school crash, basically.

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