Podcrushed - [Rerun] Lisa Kudrow

Episode Date: June 28, 2023

Today we're running back one of our favorite episodes! America's favorite friend Lisa Kudrow speaks candidly about her adolescence, family tragedy, her days in a comedy troupe with Conan O'Brien, and what it was really like to revisit "Friends" after all these years.  Folllow Podcrushed on socials:TwitterInstagramTikTokSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Lemonada Hey, so we have a rerun today for you. We wanted to support this lesser-known actress by the name of Lisa Kudrow. That's all we got for you. Did you say meme? By the name? I thought he was going to redo that. But no, we're keeping it.

I didn't say mean. Guys, enjoy this episode. She's such a delight. She tells stories we haven't heard her share anywhere else. You're going to love it if you haven't heard it or hear it a second time. But I didn't see nine. And we were just in P.E. and playing soccer. And this one boy who was cute, I kicked it and he went, oh, that was good, Lise.

And sort of pat me on the back and I went, oh, my God, is it possibly you could like me? You're part of the team, yeah. Yeah. Could he like me? Could I have a boyfriend? Like you just like go to. And then, oh my God, it's what high school is he going to? Are he at the same high school? Can we get married?

Yeah, I'm just like. Lisa, that's what I'm like today. I'm like still in that like, wait, he waved at me with like a smile. What does it mean? What were our children that like? Exactly. This is Pod Crushed. The podcast that takes the sting out of rejection, one crushing middle school story at a time.

And where guests share their teenage memories, both meaningful and mortifying. And we're your hosts. I'm Nava, a former middle school director. I'm Sophie, a former fifth grade teacher. And I'm Penn, a middle school dropout. There's three Baha'is who are living in Brooklyn. Wanting to make stuff together with a particular fondness for awkward nostalgia. Well, I struggle with nostalgia.

I'm here for the therapy. So, Penn, I am aware that you are directing an episode of you this season and you're like right in the thick of it. How's that going? It's just a lot of preparation and organization, which now that you know is where I am. What you love, that's where you shine. Yeah. Well, I've managed to have a career where, you know, being.

organized is not really a part of any of that and uh it's like i'm just i'm looking forward to being on set even though i know that like once the clock starts it's just you know in television you are just the entire time you're basically like all right how under the gun am i it's it's pretty intense i have a probably really ridiculous question but i was in the car with david the other day and i just like stopped us in our tracks and i was like how does pen direct when he's in the scene like do you are you thinking kind of simultaneously about your own character but also what notes

you might give to other characters in the scene like just logistically how does that work? Do you cut yourself off? Well the truth is I'm already watching like Joe is such a harshly harshly critical mind he's basically watching the person I'm in a scene with

so I already basically watch them silently while I'm in a scene with them that's so interesting. The one thing that is tough is that I'm in every scene nearly, like literally nearly. And that is hard to direct at the same time. So how that's going to function? I'll have stories next episode, I guess. And that's that story. Nava, how is your puppy? Well, my puppy's doing great, but I was going to share this week. I'm going to have like a Larry David gripey moment. I've had like a medical issue that I've been struggling with for about

a year and it's not like threatening, but it is very annoying. And I've seen like three different doctors here in LA and none of them were like, hey, you should go see a specialist for this kind of issue. None of the diagnoses were accurate and none of the treatment plans were working because it was inaccurate and I've been like struggling with this. And I finally went and saw a specialist because I myself, like, researched it and was like, oh, this is the kind of doctor I should be seeing. So I went and saw a specialist in the OC. He like did a test, diagnosed me accurately, put me on a treatment. It's already working. And I was just feeling so upset that like for a year I've been dealing with something that like if one of the doctors had just been like, hey, this isn't

my specialty, let me refer you to a specialist. So, Navar the key with Larry David is that he's funny. This is a comeback moment. The thing that happened there, see. Is that it was just a rind.

That is hilarious. Note taken, note taken. Today's guest is none other than, well, they truly, factually, rarely can you say this the way I can right now, but the iconic Lisa Kudrow. Yes, the Lisa Kudur. Joe, the Emmy Award winning, SAG Award winning Golden Globe nominated actor who won over the

public as Phoebe Buffet on a show called buddies. It was on, right? No, on friends. She's been in, I mean, just like so many movies, too many to list. One of them actually is something I almost forgot that we were in together, EZA. So today's conversation was almost like a reunion, except one of the people present didn't know the other one. And I won't tell you which one that was. You're not going to want to miss this. Stick around. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored?

And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that feeling is I'm making meal time, everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair, beef mash, lamb, pilaf, and turkey and chicken cookout.

I mean, are you kidding me? I want to eat these recipes. Each recipe is cooked gently in small batches to see. seal in vital nutrients and maximize digestibility. And their recipes are crafted by vet nutritionists. So I feel good knowing it's design with Louis' health and happiness in mind. Serve nom nom as a complete and balanced meal or as a tasty and healthy addition to your dog's current diet.

My dogs are like my children, literally, which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best. Hold on. Let me start again because I've only been talking about Louie. Louis is my beep. Louie, you might have heard him growl just now. Louis is my little baby, and I'm committed to only giving him the best. I love that Nom Nom's recipes contain wholesome nutrient rich food, meat that looks like meat,

and veggies that look like veggies, because shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it, and he cannot get enough. So he's a lamb pilaf guy. keep mealtime exciting with nom-num available at your local pet smart store or at chewy learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed spelled try n-o-m dot com slash podcrushed why do we do what we do what makes life meaningful my name is elise lunen and i'm the author of honor best behavior and the host of the podcast pulling the thread i explore life's big questions with thought leaders who help us better understand ourselves, others, and the world around us.

I hope these conversations bring you moments of resonance, hope, and growth. Listen to pulling the thread from Lemonada Media wherever you get your podcasts. When Penn is ready, we'll just get started. I think I'm ready. I think I am. Penn, are you going to welcome Lisa? You know, this is what I'm terrible. I'm so bad at this.

I'm so used to doing interviews. Oh, yeah. Honestly, this is... What on earth are you doing here? Yeah, that's a good question. But honestly, yeah, I share with my co-hosts the... It's really an honor to have you with us. So thank you for coming on.

Thanks for asking me to be on. So we wanted to ask you sort of as a kickoff question. Is there a memory that you associate with your own coming of age? Coming of age. So in junior high, this is obviously before social media, It was still 1977. And girls would do this thing where you sit around in a circle and it's called like a bull session. Okay.

Or a bullshit session. Also, you have to know that this is taking place in Encino, California, which is the Valley. Oh, yeah. And sit in a circle and go around each person to everyone in the circle and say, okay, Karen, like I love you, but you do this thing that is so annoying. And I mean, I hate it when you, you know, say, hi, how are you doing? It's just, it's so phony. I just think you're so phony. Wow.

And like the few times that I was even allowed into a circle, no one would have anything to say about me. It was, okay, Lisa, like, I don't really know you. So was that worse than being like, I hate this about you? So invisible, irrelevant, completely non-existent. And I would try to reframe it because I'm good at that, you know. I was like, okay, so nothing bad. I mean, that's what, that was my first thought. I was like, oh, you got out Scott Free, but.

No, I didn't exist. They were engaged with each other, and I didn't exist. And that's like the best of my stories. Wow. How did you even get invited into this bullshit circle session, would you call it? Yeah, well, both session or bullshit session. It would happen at slumber parties, if I would. was invited, I, you know, found a way to get myself invited to it. Yeah, one time was something

in gym. And for whatever reason, we had to wait and we weren't doing anything. And, you know, hey, we're not doing anything. Let's tear each other apart. Wow. That's really bold. I think the equivalent for me in my middle school years, we definitely did that kind of thing, but it was all anonymous. It was online. It was. Oh, that's horrible. I mean, I'm trying to figure out which one's worse. Which one's worse to have it in your face notes. that it? And after me, but before online stuff, there were these notebooks that got passed around where people would write things about someone. And it just got passed around. That's really vicious. All that to say, whatever's happening online, it's been happening. Lisa, maybe you can

paint a broader picture for us of who you were in middle school, 12, 13. What were you interested in? Who were your friends? So elementary school, I was popular. I had a lot of friends. Around halfway through sixth grade, it just started happening where it becomes about boys and how attractive you are and social positioning. And I remember a girl once saying to me, it's so weird that, you know, you were popular and now you're not. Wow. And I went, what? I don't even know what you're talking about. I've always sort of been like a little bit elsewhere, you know. And I didn't understand that and I didn't care. And then seventh grade, my best friends at the time, you know, on to Hebrew school, so they knew people already.

And, you know, that's not a time of, oh, allow me to introduce you to Lisa. You know, that didn't happen. So I'd be, wouldn't know what to say because they're talking about Hebrew school. I can't really participate in. No one's saying anything. No one's introducing me. And at one point in seventh grade, my best friends sent me a note like, hi, we're in Hebarth and we're really bored.

And, you know, we just want to say that, you know, we're talking in a group and you just sort stand there and you don't say anything, you don't do anything. And I think it would be really good for you if you were just on your own now. Oh my gosh. I thought they were going to invite you in. Yeah, totally different than what I was picturing. Completely dropped. I had one friend, thank God for her. And on short days, you know, half days, everyone would like make plans go to lunch. Mm-hmm. Out. And my sister, who's eight years older than me, this might make me cry. So if I'm like 13, she's 21, she would find out when my short days were and come pick me up and take me to lunch. Because I had no friends to go with.

That's very touching. That was really sweet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Lisa, you were saying that, like, those friends had said to you, you were standing in the circle, you weren't saying much. And I'm wondering, why was that? Was it because you just weren't interested? Was it, were you shy? I didn't know how to participate.

They were talking about, like, Hebrew school. And they were trying to sound stupid, and I didn't understand that either, you know. I mean, so I really didn't fit in. I loved vocabulary tests. And I would make a point of, you know, using those words in a sentence, if I could. And part of their letter, one of their grievances was, and you use these words like that nobody knows and who cares. And you're, you know, I just thought it was really important to sound smart. whether you were or not.

And I mean, I would say things like, oh, that sounds like an iatrogenic problem, you know, that's caused by, you know, medical treatment that went long. I was quoting Macbeth, like, oh, wow, it's like the three witches, up is down and down is up, and, you know, fair is foul and foul is fair. And that's how it felt to me. It just felt like, wow, but the popular people aren't nice. It's not like they have a lot of friends because they're so nice. They have a lot of friends because everyone's afraid of them. It just did not make sense to me. And everybody else, it felt like they were just getting with the program.

There's a social hierarchy and I've got to figure out how to navigate it. Yeah, you stood outside of it. Did these feelings of isolation, maybe isolation is a strong word, but I'll go ahead and use it. Did the feeling of isolation contribute to your desire to perform or the way that, because I know that it's probably, true with a lot of actors and artists. I know it was for me. I mean, it was the performing was the only place that I had ever felt this sort of community,

you know, like people uniting around a common goal. And also, what I loved was just that it was a lot of different kinds of people, different ages. And, you know, it seemed like a more diverse background than, I don't know, going to school, for instance. Yeah, I mean, I did do this thing called, it was like play production or something. And, yeah, I was funny.

You'd do lip sinks and you'd make up sketches and you'd do stuff. And then the school, different classes would come in and watch and you'd perform. And it was something that I was good at. And so there was a certain level of respect finally. And then other friends, you know, that I could sort of make there. And I did. I invited them all to my bat mitzvah. And they were all like, oh, thanks.

Didn't know we knew each other that well to be invited. But I didn't care. I was like, yeah, no. I mean, yeah, come. I don't care. You're my new friends. Only. Yeah.

Tell us about your first crush or your biggest crush or your biggest heartbreak around that. Well, yeah. So, I mean, that stuff I was talking about isn't the bad stuff, by the way. So I did have a huge crush on this boy who was so adorable. And we were in the same math class, and he seemed really nice. but, you know, we didn't really speak. Okay, so here's the bad thing. So one day I was late to my math class, and I went to my locker.

And my locker was next to a guy who was in ninth grade. I'm in seventh grade. And he's there, and he's good friends with a really popular guy. And he starts making fun of me, and then he shoves me up against the locker and starts pumping. Whoa. And I don't know what was going on. And I, you know, was crying. And I could see out of the corner of my eye, the popular guy.

I looked really uncomfortable. I was like, ha-ha, okay, man. And then the guy stopped, and I picked up all my stuff, and I'm crying, and I turn around. And the boy, that was so nice that I had a crush on, was far away coming across the quad.

He was late to our math class. And he was also kind of small. He's in seventh grade, so he was just trying to look away and look down. And just on every level, all of it was just, well, obviously, really humiliating. And then when I told my, one friend that I had about it, she said, oh, my God, like the popular guy. He's good friends

with my brother. He's a totally cool guy. You make such a big deal out of everything. Whoa. So I just clamped up and I didn't talk about it because I make a big deal out of everything, I guess. You know, it was such an upside down period to me. I didn't get it. It's also just like so shameless that he did it so public. Like it just also, yeah, speaks to the culture, the fact that that's like allowed because he did it in front of people and there were no consequences. It's just awful. I mean, look, I think being a kid anyway, especially then, you're not fully human in the eyes of adults, right?

And then when you're a seventh grader with a ninth grader, you definitely aren't entitled to the regular respect, you know, that others get. And then if you're an ugly girl, then you don't count at all is sort of, how it felt to me. God. Did you ever tell any adults about that? Or did you kind of, after your friend said it didn't matter, did you have to just kind of move on and not talk about it anymore? I think I did tell my parents, but I wouldn't have been able to describe it

the way I could describe it now because I didn't know he pushed me up against the locker was maybe all I could say, you know? And my father just said, asshole. He's an asshole. What's his name? And I had an older brother, too, and they're like, oh, God, so stupid. And my father would say, boys, young, they're the most dangerous, you know, men. They have no judgment.

And then he did actually, what was great about my dad, he was saying, you have to understand something about the adolescent brain. If you look at an EEG, here's where I got that, like, nerd thing from, he's like, if you look at an EEG of their brains, it's total chaos. There's no organization at all. So that's who you're dealing with. And I was like, okay, yeah. So it sounds a bit like you had a challenging time in middle school and maybe some social isolation. But from what you're sharing, it sounds like you had a sweet family life. Is that accurate, can you show a little bit about your family dynamic?

My family was great. Yeah, I told you, my sister was so great. My brother was great. And my parents also were as supportive as they could be, you know, because it wasn't the kind of thing where you, you know, they'd like call the school and have something done or, you know. That wasn't about to happen at all. And you don't want it to happen because then what? Oh, shoot. Then it's really bad.

But I have to say, yeah, no, the play production and getting to be funny and that saved me. I mean, it protected me in a way because then there was some value to me. And I think that's around when I could be invited into a bull session, even though no one knew me very well. Do people have a perception of you as funny? Was that happening? Yeah, that was starting to happen. Is anyone else in your family? funny? Yes. My father is hilarious. And so my sister and my brother, my mom didn't really

make jokes. And she really only laughed if someone fell down or got hurt, which we all laughed about, you know. But yeah, no, my family was really funny. My dad was very funny. That just reminded me. When I was a kid, I remember one of my mom's favorite things, this is going to make her sound really bad, but was to watch figure skating just to see people. fall down. Deceit. I can't handle that. It makes me so nervous.

Anytime they mess up, I'm just like, I can't do it. I don't like watching. Yeah, I love watching figure skating too. Lisa, were you athletic at all? I was really athletic. I was. Like softball, I felt like, oh, I can hit a home run every time. And every sport I wanted to be really good at.

I didn't like football ever. And I didn't like dodge ball. I don't like balls being thrown at my face. Fair enough. Yeah. And then that thing where, you know, and then soccer. And it was sort of co-ed by ninth grade, and I don't know why or how. And we were just in P.E. and playing soccer.

And this one boy who was cute, I kicked it. And he went, ooh, that was good, Lease, and sort of pat, Lease. And pat me on the back. And I went, oh, my God, is it possibly you could like me? Yeah. That's so cute. It's honestly the smallest things at that age, someone calling you lease. Yeah.

Could he like me? Could I have a boyfriend? Like, you just, like, go to? And then, oh, my God, it's what high school is he going to? Would be at the same high school? Can we get married? Yeah, I'm just like. Lisa, that's what I'm like today.

I'm like still in that like, wait, he waved at me with like a smile. What does it mean? What were our children that like? Exactly. So it sounds like you actually have some confidence and it was just maybe this. I mean, I don't know, because it sounds again like you had some support at home. And it sounds like, you know, you responded so readily like, yeah, I was athletic. Not everybody does that.

So it sounds like you kind of had some, I don't know, a good foundation and it was just this period. Yeah. No, I was confident. And by the way, I half think that if you are confident, but there's a weakness, that's when the mob goes for you. It's such a hideous time for everybody. And then if there's someone who seems to like themselves, there's a, why do you get to like yourself? I hate myself. You know, I've got all these things.

and I'm barely holding on to my, you know, station in our group, you know, and then they just try to, like, go after. That also sounds like what happens to women in Hollywood. Like, women in Hollywood who are very confident, I feel like it's like, oh, time to tear her down. Yeah, I don't know. I think that's just about exposure. It's like, oh, so you must be feeling pretty confident

because everybody knows who you are, so what can we find? Yeah. And also it's, it makes, that's a story. Yeah. Yeah, you know, more good stuff isn't a story. All right, so let's just, let's just real talk, as they say for a second. That's a little bit of an aged thing to say now. That dates me, doesn't it?

But no, real talk. How important is your health to you? You know, on like a one to ten? And I don't mean in the sense of vanity. I mean in the sense of like you want your day to go well, right? You want to be less stressed. You don't want it as sick. when you have responsibilities um i know myself i'm a householder i have uh i have two children and two more

on the way um a spouse a pet you know a job that sometimes has its demands so i really want to feel like when i'm not getting the sleep and i'm not getting nutrition when my eating's down i want to know that i'm that i'm being held down some other way physically you know my family holds me down emotionally spiritually but i need something to hold me down physically right and so honestly i turn to symbiotica, these, these vitamins and these beautiful little packets that they taste delicious. And I'm telling you, even before I started doing ads for these guys, it was a product that I really, really liked and enjoyed and could see the differences with. The three that I use, I use the, what is it called, liposomal vitamin C, and it tastes

delicious, like really, really good. Comes out in the packet, you put it right in your mouth. Some people don't do that. I do it. adding it tastes grade. I use the liposomal glutathione as well in the morning. Really good for gut health and although I don't need it, you know, anti-aging. And then I also use the magnesium L3 and which is really good for I think mood and stress. I sometimes use it in the morning, sometimes use it at night. All three of these things taste incredible. Honestly, you don't even need to mix

it with water. And yeah, I just couldn't recommend them highly enough. If you want to try them out, Go to symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. That's symbiotica.com slash podcrushed for 20% off plus free shipping. As the seasons change, it's the perfect time to learn something new. Whether you're getting back into a routine after summer or looking for a new challenge before the year ends, Rosetta Stone makes it easy to turn a few minutes a day into real language progress. Rosetta Stone is the trusted leader in language learning for over third. 30 years. Their immersive, intuitive method helps you naturally absorb and retain your new language

on desktop or mobile whenever and wherever it fits your schedule. Rosetta Stone immerses you in your new language naturally, helping you think and communicate with confidence. There are no English translation so you truly learn to speak, listen, and think in your chosen language. The other day, I was actually at the grocery store and I asked one of the people working there if they could help me find a specific item and she was like, sorry, I actually don't speak English. She only spoke Spanish. And I was like, if only I, my Spanish was good enough to be able to have this conversation in Spanish, we would be sorted. And that's where Rosetta Stone comes in. I really need to get back on my Rosetta Stone grind. With 30 years of experience, millions of users and 25 languages

to choose from, including Spanish, French, German, Japanese, and more. Rosetta Stone is the go-to tool for real language growth. A lifetime membership gives you access to all 25 languages so you can learn as many as you want whenever you want. Don't wait. Unlock your language learning potential now. Podcrush listeners can grab Rosetta Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. That's unlimited access to 25 language courses for life. Visit Rosettastone.com slash podcrush to get started and claim your 50% off today. Don't miss out. Go to Rosettastone.com slash podcrush and start. learning today. The first few weeks of school are in the books, and now's the time to keep that momentum going. I-XL helps kids stay confident and ahead of the curve. I-XL is an award-winning

online learning platform that helps kids truly understand what they're learning. Whether they're brushing up on math or diving into social studies, it covers math, language arts, science, and social studies from pre-K through 12th grade, with content that's engaging, personalized, and yes, actually fun. It's the perfect tool to keep learning going. without making it feel like school. I actually used I Excel quite a bit when I was teaching fifth grade. I used it for my students to give like extra problems for practice or sometimes I also used it to just check on what the standards were in my state for any given topic in math or reading or writing. It's just a helpful tool all around for teachers, for parents, for students. I honestly do

love it. Studies have shown that kids who use I-XL score higher on tests. This has been proven in almost every state in the U.S. So if your child is struggling, this is a smart investment that you can make in their learning. A single hour of tutoring costs more than a month of I-XL. Don't miss out. One in four students in the U.S. are learning with I-XL, and I-XL is used in 96 of the top 100 school districts in the U.S. Make an impact on your child's learning. Get I-XL now. and Podcrush listeners can get an exclusive 20% off IXL memberships when they sign up today at IXL.com slash podcrushed. Visit IXL.com slash podcrushed to get the most effective learning program out there at the best price. I've read a couple of things you've said in interviews about feeling maybe some body dysmorphia,

maybe just like body image issues, especially on friends. And I think in particular that time period was really rough for women in terms of body image. Like the image of beauty was like stick, stick, thin. But I'm wondering if that started for you there or if you had those feelings when you were younger, too. No, I did not. I had body dysmorphia in the way of, oh, I'm a stick, just like my sister, just like my dad. And I wasn't at all. I didn't see it.

I had no waste. I didn't see it at all. I thought I was just really skinny. I can just do whatever. No, especially in high school. And I'd look at pictures and say, wow, pictures really distort reality. And it wasn't until friends that I realized, oh, I don't look like I thought I looked. And that's what was so jarring.

And that's when it was like, oh, I've got to actually lose weight. I have to diet. it? Shoot. And did you feel that way? Was it internal or was it headlines that made you feel that way? What was it? It wasn't headlines. It was just seeing myself on the show and seeing myself in clothes and seeing Courtney and Jennifer in clothes. And at first I thought, oh, because they know like tailoring. So they can discuss it with the, you know, costume designer about where exactly to take something in, you know. And then I'd ask one of them, like, can you come with me or my fitting? And they would because honestly they were it's like sisters you know they were so oh and they'd come in like

yeah no you got to take it in here you got to take it in there and yeah honey do that let's do that and then i that's when i would see oh okay it's not just about tailoring you know my bot i'm just i'm just yeah not and i'm not trying to say i was overweight either i was not but i just had no idea the shape of, you know, my actual body. Did you end up having to do any work to undo that? Or did that perception of your body just continue? At some point, ooh, maybe not till like my late 30s or 40s, I just, or later. I don't know.

I just realized, oh, no, no, it's okay. This is just what I look like. That's okay. That's okay. I mean, do what you need to do to be healthy, but this is your body. It's okay. But I think it also happened around a time when I felt like, remember, you only wanted to be a character actress. You're not going for, you know, romantic comedies, romantic lead.

You don't do that. And that's not like a fun role for you anyway. So knock it off. It's okay. You can look fine as you are. And my husband, too, has always loved me the way I was, but wanted me to be healthy, you know. Right. I feel like you're very beautiful,

but you don't need to hear that from a random person, but just to say that I've always felt you were really beautiful. Thanks. Yeah. Just makes me think that, like, my experience of coming up in Hollywood, you know, it feels to me like no matter how close to the top or at the top anyone gets,

you always feel and get a sense of what's lacking. You always feel as though you need to be one person closer to the top of the pyramid. you're always feeling I feel like a certain inadequacy is highlighted because the kind of extreme standard you're comparing yourself to

is literally it includes the likes of you know yeah Tom Cruise or yeah uh huh well no Tom Cruise yeah but that's the other thing I had to realize

that's all in your own head you're doing that to yourself that's no one needs you to be Tom Cruise or as famous is Tom Cruise or, you know, for me, at that time, you know, Julia Roberts, Meg Ryan, no one's actually requiring that of me. I mean, representatives, your agents, people, you know, I'm sure they love for you to be, you know, at the top of the pyramid, but that's it. I mean,

we know we can't pay attention to that. So it's just, that's something that you're, we're bringing to the table. I feel like that's kind of amazing that you didn't have those kind of insecurity when you were younger. I feel like if you could get through that age and not be so consumed with your body and insecurities, then that's amazing. Yeah, I mean, as much as that time and how sad I just, you know, made it sound

and it was hard. There was part of my brain that was, this is wrong. It's upside down. It won't be like this in adulthood. This is crazy times, and it doesn't, it can't count too much. It's impossible.

to go to school every day with this. I don't know. Like, how do I get through that, though? My peers are crazy people, you know? This is my society, my community, my society is all insane people whose brains don't work. I can't. It's amazing you had that perspective. It really is.

I did. But I had it side by side with, what do I do tomorrow? Because it hurts. Yeah. You know, it still hurts. So what do I do? It also sounds like you were really. head of the curve in a lot of ways.

This is just a random thing, but I don't know if you heard of that show, Dawson's Creek. It, like, premiered in the 90s, but it was written in a way where the character spoke, like, extremely ornately and, like, very sophisticated vocabulary. And I was in high school when that happened, and there was, like, a shift in how, like, it was perceived to, like, speak that way. Wait, Dawson's Creek, people, the characters spoke eloquently? Very eloquently. It was, like, a thing that was written about quite a bit.

Really? Yeah. It was, like, you could, like, improve your SAT vocabulary if you watch Dawson's Creek. Yeah. Kevin Williamson, I think who wrote it, he like made a point of like having them speak in a really like elevated manner. That's fantastic. No, but I do remember. I don't know if I saw Dawson's Creek, but I remember there came this point, you know, and I was older where, yes, young people on TV were, had phenomenal vocabularies and lots of insight. And I, I remember just being so happy that that was happening. We finally all caught up to Lisa

Kudra, you know, behind. No, that's funny. Yes, finally. Lisa, we do like to ask people a question that I think most interviews avoid, but we like to ask people about sort of their connection with spirituality. So you mentioned that you had a bat mitzvah. So sort of what was the role that religion played in your life back then and what's your relationship to spirituality now? Well, like everything else, I mean, I chose to have a bat mitzvah. I felt like all all these friends I have that are Jewish are having a bar and bat mitzvahs. I'm Jewish. I need to have a bar mitzvah. I mean, that's who I am. And it wasn't like a so, maybe part social thing. But remember, I didn't have any friends at the time I was deciding to do it. But we had a friend of the family who's a reformed rabbi and he got me tapes. And so I just learned from the tapes, all the prayers and everything I had to do. And while I couldn't have

people at a temple he let my immediate family into his temple and let me and bot mitzvied me and then I had a party yeah that's the important part that's where I invited my acquaintances to and they came yeah you know because other people they knew we're going to be there yeah it's going to be fun oh by the way I'd be there was sort of how it was you know what I mean was it even though you didn't grow up with like explicitly religious or spiritual relationship to Judaism. Or maybe I shouldn't say that, but at least religious. Culturally, yes. Culturally, yes.

And that's actually what I think is so beautiful about Judaism is it's rich, kind of, like, for lack of a better word, secular or cultural history. You know, it's like it's not just a religion. It's a lot of things. And so for you at that time, was there like a deepening of your Jewish identity? Was that anything that meant? Yes, absolutely. I mean, also, I think I'd seen Fiddler on the real.

And understood that's around the area my family was from. And those, it just looked so beautiful to me in all those, you know, traditions and stuff. And I started, I actually got myself Shabbat candles and would on Fridays just in my bedroom, like, do a little Shabbat. That's really adorable. Ceremony. And, you know, my family just sort of went, okay. And it didn't last long. But, no, I was going through this period where I just wanted to learn.

And after that, by the way, I was still fascinated. You know, I took a lot of, when I could, high school and college, Jewish history classes and history of Judaism and comparative Near East studies stuff because I was really interested. Did that, so, I mean, I'm aware that in the first season of your show, who do you think you are, you were exploring your ancestry, right? And you, like, connected to some pretty intense revelation. Holocaust. It was my father's mother's side.

And, you know, to be honest, I didn't want to be in the show. I just wanted to produce the show. Because I was going after Sarah Jessica Parker, Spike Lee, Susan Sarandon, you know. And I was telling the guy who created the show in the UK, I was like, no, no, you don't want the likes of me. We want, let's go for, like, the big names and stuff. And he said, well, it would actually be helpful if you did. I was like, all right. He said, and we know about your, you know, your father's family is from, like, Mogalads.

And I went, what? There's a village name? And I was in, you know. You found out something about my. And I also, here's the weird thing. My father told us about the Holocaust, and I was too young to hear about it, honestly. How old? Well, six.

And there was this series called World at War, World War II, and they had like a few episodes or one, of just about the Holocaust. And I've sat next to him and watched every one of those. And again, I think I was too young to be seen that because I would have trouble falling asleep thinking, I thought children were always spared. I thought as a child I'd be safe. And yeah, so it's scary.

I think I was a little too young for that. And, you know, maybe as a consequence of that, All I knew was, well, I haven't heard that we had any relatives in concentration camps. So the Holocaust, yeah, but maybe not my family. And then I did know, my dad had said, my grandmother told me when I was like seven that her parents were killed by Hitler. And I went, what do you, was he like a serial killer? I don't know. What are you talking about?

Like, you tell a lot of crazy stories, so I don't know what you're talking about, old lady. And she's like, no, no, and she'd start crying. Hitler, he killed my mother, he killed my sister, the brothers, and the babies. And, oh, okay, I don't know what this could be. But so, but anyway, I just thought, yeah, I'm not sure how affected we are by the Holocaust. So stupid, this weird denial thing. And then, sure enough, yeah, because there were death squads that were responsible for about, a million Jews being killed throughout, like that pail of settlement, you know,

and they just round them up and shoot them and bury them in mass graves. So my, who do you think you are, was going to the place where my grandmother's family had been killed. And a few people escaped and erected a monument. So there's actually a marker for exactly where it happened. and for a lot of places, you know, scattered around Belarus, Ukraine, other areas, there's absolutely no marker at all. So that, I just counted that as lucky that I could see that.

And bear witness, because there's still some people who say it didn't happen. What was I like to go through that experience, like learn that history on camera, like on a show? I was worried about that, but I knew the show that I was producing. It's not a gotcha show. So if at any point I felt like I don't want to be on camera anymore, you can shoot me walking away. That's fine. And it also, you know, it helps tell the story that it's that hard that I can't. I don't even know what to say about it.

But I remember feeling like I don't know if I can do another minute of this. It's so hard. Actually, reading what happened exactly, talking to a couple people, one guy who was, he was a child when it happened and he watched it. So the weird things in my head were, wow, and in this country, you have to disclose if someone died in a house, and you're all still living in this village. And it was like mass murder. And then the other weird thing going through my head was Hitler, his top henchmen who devised his hideous plans are who they are. But every soldier, they were brainwashed, caught up, understood. This is what had to be. done. And then they had to live with it forever and ever. So there's so many lives ruined. And we know through like epigenetics that it's, it even like imprints in the DNA of like seven generations. Like the toll of these things is so unimaginable. Yeah. I've watched a few episodes of your show and I love it. I think like the way that the show treats family history is really like

delicate, but it's not shy. I watched Billy Porter's episode last night, which is really moving. I think the argument for the way we teach history is made here. It's not about shaming anyone, but it's just reporting, here's what happened. This is how society thought of itself and other people and their place in it. And here's how the people who had to endure that endured. Here's what they had to do to survive. I think also like I mean I imagine that most of us hope that in whatever historical moment

we're living we're like ahead of the curve but I think for most of us it's hard to be so far ahead of our like cultural environment so like the norms of the time like we're all doing things that maybe future generations will be like how could they have done this? They throw things away?

They thought you could throw things away? I mean just the toll on the planet you know all the all the things are doing. And they will I mean we're even doing it now looking back at the 70s. Wait, women couldn't get a credit card? Yeah. Oh my gosh. That's why. What? Yeah. You know, and then before that, wait, you know, a woman couldn't get custody of her children. They always went to the father. Oh, they were his children. Okay. That's totally wild. Yeah. And, you know, women couldn't vote. There's even some, you know, studies showing like, ooh, maybe we didn't handle COVID exactly right. Some studies.

Trying to be diplomatic. Yes. Well, this is a diplomatic show, so thank you for upholding the banner. Fall is in full swing, and it's the perfect time to refresh your wardrobe with pieces that feel as good as they look. Luckily, Quince makes it easy to look polished,

stay warm, and save big, without compromising on quality. Quince has all the elevated essentials for fall. Think 100% Mongolian cashmere from $50, that's right, $50, washable silk tops and skirts, and perfectly tailored denim, all at prices that feel too good to be true. I am currently eyeing their silk miniskirt. I have been dying for a silk miniskirt. I've been looking everywhere at thrift stores, just like all over town. But I just saw that Quince has one on their website. It is exactly what I've

been looking for. So I'm just going to click, put that in my cart. By partnering direct with ethical top-tier factories, Quince cuts out the middlemen to deliver luxury quality pieces at half the price of similar brands. It's the kind of wardrobe upgrade that feels smart, stylish, and effortless. Keep it classic and cozy this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash podcrushed for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash podcrushed to get free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash podcrushed. Does anyone else ever get that nagging feeling that their dog might be bored? And do you also feel like super guilty about it? Well, one way that I combat that

feeling is by making meal time everything it can be for my little boy, Louis. Nom Nom does this with food that actually engages your pup senses with a mix of tantalizing smells, textures, and ingredients. Nom Nom offers six recipes bursting with premium proteins, vibrant, veggies and tempting textures designed to add excitement to your dog's day. Pork potluck, chicken cuisine, turkey fair, beef mash, lamb, pilaf, and turkey and chicken cookout. I mean, are you kidding me? I want to eat these recipes. Each recipe is cooked gently in small batches to seal in vital nutrients and maximize digestibility.

And their recipes are crafted by vet nutritionists. So I feel good knowing its design with Louie's health and happiness in mind. serve nom nom as a complete and balanced meal or as a tasty and healthy addition to your dog's current diet. My dogs are like my children, literally, which is why I'm committed to giving them only the best. Hold on. Let me start again because I've only been talking about Louie.

Louis is my beep. Louis, you might have heard him growl just now. Louis is my little baby. And I'm committed to only giving him the best. I love that nom nom nom's recipes contain wholesome nutrient rich food. meat that looks like meat and veggies that look like veggies because, shocker, they are. Louis has been going absolutely nuts for the lamb pilaf. I have to confess that he's never had anything like it and he cannot get enough.

So he's a lambie laugh guy. Keep mealtime exciting with nom-num available at your local pet smart store or at Chewy. Learn more at trynom.com slash podcrushed, spelled try n-o-m.com slash podcrushed. So I read that you and Conan O'Brien and a third person I'm forgetting his name had a comedy troupe together for a brief period of time called Unexpected Company. And I was just curious if you could tell us a story or an anecdote from that time. It was someone else's, someone else started a sketch comedy group. Then probably someone I knew from the groundlings who brought me into this.

And then I brought Conan into it going, we need to perform. It doesn't matter. Just the experience. We've got it. And it was like, all right. And it would meet, we would meet at the Celebrity Center for Scientology. Wow. And, uh-huh. Yeah, because they were sort of, it was like them doing sort of outreach. You didn't have to be a Scientologist to go in there. And we weren't really bothered when we'd walk in.

No one would say, hey, you need to, it didn't happen. It's nice. We would rehearse and then perform in the theater space at the Celebrity Center. Scientology, Celebrity Center. And yeah, it wasn't great. It wasn't great. It wasn't great. You know, but everyone was nice, decent folk. And, you know, and Conan was just always, yeah, that's just he was, I think he has a, he had a very high standard, you know, for how things should be.

Did you guys meet in the groundlings or how to, because that's quite an iconic duo. I also just recently listened to his, his podcast where he was describing how. instrumental you were when he was like getting his iconic late night. I mean like yeah, right? You changed the course of history Lisa. Yes, that's true. So how did you guys meet? I'm just curious

because it again... Yeah, we met because the groundlings wouldn't allow us to audition for classes because they wouldn't. We hadn't acted. I mean, we didn't do that together, you know, and I went to a class, he wasn't in it, the first class. They sent me to someone else named Cynthia Sagetti, who's a phenomenal

improv teacher. They said, why don't you go there first and then you can come audition? So I went to the first class and thought, oh, this isn't for me, I don't think, because there were a lot of people in there who were actors and they were, you know, making a meal out of stuff and, you know, gurg, like bad emotional adjustments, you know, sad. Yeah, I mean, that was better than what they were doing.

And, you know, and then we'd have to do something. It's like lift a disc, and we all stand around lifting a disc, and it's really hard, and they're going, and I'm like, it's not funny, and I don't know what I can't. And I'm hearing her say, commit, commit. I'm like, I don't know what that means. I've never taken an acting class at all.

I was a biology major. I don't know what any of this is. And as I'm talking to them on break, it's like, I have nothing in common with these people. I don't fit. I don't know. I don't think this is going to work out for me. I don't think I will be an actor.

And I was deciding whether or not to go to the second class. honestly, and went, just go, okay, I was a little late, and they were already up on the stage and I didn't want to, you know, interfere. And there was a new guy who's really tall with red hair, and now they're doing space ball, where you, you know, act like you're throwing a ball and the different emotional adjustments. And he was just doing it. And he wasn't getting grr angry. He just looked angry. And she was like, good commitment. I went, that's what commitment means, I can do that. And that's not embarrassing. He's fully going for it. And I am not embarrassed for him. I can do that. I'm going to stick with him. And the minute it was done,

I made a B-line for him. Hi, I'm Lisa. And he went, oh, hey, I'm Conan. And we were best friends. That's so sweet. I like knowing that you guys are your friends like that. That's really cute. Speaking of friends. You were mad about you as Ursula first. And then you were Phoebe on Friends. I'm just wondering at what point did they decide that Phoebe and Ursula should be twins? Like, how did that come about? Because it just seems so random, but also really cool. Well, yeah, it was great. So I, you, I was, I was waitress on mad about you.

And she didn't have a name yet. And I was about to like, okay, now I need a day job because I now don't have enough money. And acting isn't really working out for me, I think. And the guy who ran mad about you, Danny Jacobson, he said, you're really funny. Is it okay with you if I put you in five more episodes and you come back? And it's like, is it okay with me? Oh, my God. Yes, it's the best show.

Oh, my God. I was so excited. And then, you know, I auditioned for friends because I was available. I was only a recurring role on Mad About You. And I got it both on NBC. and that's why I liked Friends. I also was going to go to the network for a show that was on Fox

and I went, no, no, definitely the NBC show and everyone seems to love it, so that's great. And, you know, the script. And then I can still do Mad About You because that was my goal was protecting Mad About You. So I've been already a recurring character on Mad About You.

Then they named Ursula and I do friends and it gets picked up. And after it got picked up And they also put us on right after Mad About You. So I think Mad About You and I don't know who spoke with who because they were different studios. But it was decided that I still get to be a recurring character on Mad About You. And then Friends needs to address the fact that the exact same human being is on a half hour later sometimes. So I think that's how it happened.

I don't know what the discussions were with Marta and David and the Mad About You people. So, like most people, I think, alive, Friends was my favorite show. Growing up, we watched it as a family. I don't think I've ever watched any show more than I've watched Friends. It's like a comfort show. Phoebe was always my favorite character. Oh, yeah, always. Yes, I was.

Obviously. As it should be. For what it's worth, it's true for me, too. Really? Yeah, you were my favorite character. Obviously, the writing is incredible. The cast chemistry is incredible. But I feel like the secret ingredient that made Friends different is Phoebe.

I feel like there's no character like her on any other show. And I feel like when Friends came out and it was so successful, many people tried to replicate like the ditsy blonde and no one did it. And I've thought about why, because Penn and I have a production company and we look to develop some comedies. So I do think about comedies and I study them. And I really feel like, oh, it's because there's only one Lisa Kudrow. Like, I just don't think anyone else could have pulled off that character.

And now meeting you today, I think it's because you're so smart. Like, I think casting someone so smart to play that character is the only way that. that she could have been both didsy and have these like pockets of brilliance and be so believable. So I just wanted to give you credit for I think being like the best female character

and the canon of comedy. Well, thank you. Oh my God. What do you think made Phoebe so special though? Yeah, I don't know. And I just had a, I think I had like a good take on her. You know, the audition was this monologue sort of

that was in the pilot where, you know, Rachel's cutting up credit cards and Phoebe. I don't remember it, but it was something around, Well, you know, like my mom killed herself and then I was living with this guy in his car and, you know, and then he died. You know, something like that. And I had a friend in college who, you know, had a tough time, you know, like had to leave college and then worked in a nursing home. And her take was always like, and it was like, you're working in a nursing home. Oh, that's so depressing. Yes, well, you know, there's some nice people there and this one woman. Martha, so funny. And, you know, it's always a mess. And she just had these, like, charm, like, everything was okay. And it was all like, you know, as you do, was sort of her take on everything.

Like, as we all know, you know, when you work in a nursing home, you do it this way. And I was like, what? No, I have no idea. So I brought that to Phoebe, just that mindset that was like, you know, as we all know, when your mother kills herself and then as it goes, the guy you're living with in his car, of course, is, you know, but without that sort of dialect. But, yeah, that was the sensibility.

I just, I think it's really funny if she thinks, like, well, you have all, you all know what I'm talking about. Yeah, that's, like, seemingly simple, but makes all the difference. It does, yeah. We recently had a guest who was a co-star of Penn's on Gossip Girl, and he talked about when that show ended. Who shall remain nameless. Chase Crawford. We recently had Chase Crawford on the show.

And he talked about the ending of Gossip Girl being like an athlete sort of having an injury and his career just being over from one day to the next, even though his career wasn't over, but it felt like that. It was so jarring. And I'm just wondering what the end of friends was like for you and your sense of self and identity. Oh, well, I mean, I think we all just in a very healthy way just mourned the goodbye to these people. You know, I mean, I don't know if, you know, but every year we weren't short if we were going to be coming back. Really? Well, because of the cast, deciding whether or not we wanted to come back because people were getting, like, different opportunities and stuff. And, you know, so I know there was more than one season before that where I actually, the last day of, you know, season eight or seven, whatever it was, I was driving home and I burst into tears because I was really going to miss Phoebe. Oh, wow.

I was just going to miss being her, inhabiting her. I was going to just miss her and cried. So, yeah, and then when we knew we were going to be done, it was, okay, we are definitely going to be done. And it's, you know, coping. But we cried. We cried that night. It was a lot of boohooing, you know.

But then it was also, okay, and so it's time to move on because we have to move on. And so it's right. whatever's happening. Okay, so this is right. There's no choice. Make it okay. I'm thinking about the friends reunion that happened during the pandemic. That was a huge production.

I've never seen anything like that for any other show. I loved it. But I did wonder what it felt like for you all as the cast. Does it feel good and nostalgic to go back to that place? Or does it feel like, okay, it's over? It felt great and nostalgic to go back to that place. I mean, the six of us had only ever been in a room together after the show. show, you know, like five years

before that for one dinner at Jennifer's house. Wow. And that was heaven. I mean, it was as if no time had passed and that was great. And so we were really looking forward to that. And it's neat that the sets were there and all of that. To me, I didn't care

about the sets. I cared about seeing the people. That's what was exciting to me. And it was just, it was great and it was so well done. You know, the other thing that we all had people coming up to us here and there over the many years, you know, who would say, oh, that it was really important to me during a hard time in my life and thank you and all of that. It's like, oh, that's nice, you know, here and there. I guess there's a person, you know, that it was beneficial to. But when we sat down and he showed us all like from around the world, these different testimonials and there were a few more than what made it into the, you know, the final cut. We were a wreck.

We were sobbing. We were so moved and, you know, and it's not just true for friends. That's what entertainment does. That's true, yeah. I used to feel like, well, all right. I mean, we're just, you know, entertainers. We're not curing cancer over here. We're not curing cancer, but we are.

Yeah. And it's an important escape. Headline, Lisa Kudrow thinks entertainers are curing cancer. I mean, no, no, no, you just got us, you just got us, a bunch of listeners. So thank you so much. I didn't say that. I didn't say that. But it is. It's a great mental health break. You know, and then, wait, I'm sorry. I'm going to tell you something else.

You can cut it. No, tell us everything. You know, now I'm just wasting your time because you've got to direct your show. Sure, yeah. Somebody's got to. But so after 9-11, you know, everyone was, it was shut down for two weeks. And you're just watching CNN or you're just watching news all day long. and it's all about, you know, what happened on 9-11. And I remember I was watching Will and Grace was on.

I went, oh, okay. And automatically thought, oh, this takes place in New York. Oh, God, I wonder if they knew anyone in the towers. And then went, no, no, that's, you know, this was shot before 9-11. It didn't happen yet in this episode. And then I realized, no. It's not going to. It's not going to.

this is a world where that didn't happen. And it was such a relief. And then when we were, you know, back to work and I would drive home, I used to drive home and people would pull up next to me at a line and go, ah, hey. And now people would pull up next to me and look over and just go, about to cry. And I knew exactly what they were talking about because I experienced the same thing, you know, watching Will and Grace. And then it struck me like, it's not unimportant.

entertainment people need a break yeah they do need a break especially something as feel good as friends yeah you know before we go i do this is a bit of a non-sequit or maybe we can take it out or place it at the end i do i don't want any i don't want the interview to pass without saying that your performance and the comeback is um genuinely i think one of the best performances i've seen came out i think at a moment that i was particularly receptive to it and it just uh yeah i thought you were like kind of breathtaking and, you know, poignant. Oh, thank you. That means a lot.

Thank you. I think I'm the most proud of that than anything. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, it really is incredible. That show. Lisa, we have one question that we ask everybody at the end of the interview. Okay. If you could go back to 12-year-old Lisa and say one thing, have a moment with her.

What would you want to say? Oh, dear. The people are mean because of what they're going through. Don't take it in. it's nothing to do with you. You're still allowed to like yourself. You really are. Well, thank you so much.

It's so wonderful to have you, Lisa. Yes, it was so sweet. It was not a disappointment at the beginning you said it would be, and it was the opposite. No, but I was so heavy, heavy. Oh, that's great. We love heavy. We love heavy. Up next, Penn reads today's listener-submitted middle school story.

Stick around. grew up in a small town about an hour south of Philadelphia called M-M-A-O-S. M-M-A-O-S. Note to listener, I don't know how to pronounce this. Anyway, moving on. In 2015, when I was in eighth grade, I was assigned a new lab partner in science, a troubled skater boy named Oz. To be honest, Oz completely scared me, but I knew he had troubles at home and probably just needed a few friends. At the time, I also needed some friends. A few weeks after studying together his lab partners, Oz was waiting for me outside my house,

except I never told him where I lived. When I asked why he was waiting for me, he just asked if we could hang out. I was completely terrified of boys, especially of Oz. I cried out, no, you have to go home. The next day at school, I asked him how he knew where I lived. I saw your address on a letter you sent. he replied, which really scared me.

I did want boys to like me, but not boys that scared me. So a week passes, and one day I walked home from school for my bus stop like usual. I ate, then immediately I took a nap, and my mom wakes me up. Honey, she said, someone is at the door for you. It was Oz. By then I had a sick feeling and was legitimately scared. I told him he needed to leave. that did not make him happy. He literally ripped out a chunk of the sidewalk and threw it on the

ground smashing it into a million pieces and walked away. I was horrified. That week in science class, it was my turn to present a PowerPoint slide all about the water cycle, so I got up and began presenting. When I clicked to go to the second slide, all of my work had been deleted. In its place was a message for me. I can't wait to see your face when you read this, dumb bitch. I stood there, humiliated in front of my entire class. After some investigating, the school confirmed that Oz had hacked into my project and hijacked it with his message.

Where is Oz now? Jail for pistol whipping someone. I guess the lesson here is trust your intuition you can catch Lisa in her animated series Housebroken and new episodes of Who Do You Think You Are are available on Hulu and Peacock. You can also just follow her online at Lisa Kudrow.

Podcrush is hosted by Penn Badgley, Navakavalin, and Sophie Ansari. Our executive producer is Nora Richie from Stitcher. Our lead producer and editor is David Ansari. Our secondary editor is Sharaf and Twistle. Special thanks to Peter Clowney, VP of content at Stitcher. Eric Eddings, Director of Lifestyle Programming at Stitcher, Jared O'Connell and Brendan Bryans for the tech support, and Shruti Marante, who transcribes our tape. Podcush was created by Navakavalin and is executive produced by Penn Badgley and Navakavalin and produced by Sophie Ansari.

This podcast is a 9th mode production. Be sure to subscribe to Podcresh. You can find us on Stitcher, the Serious XM app, Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen. If you'd like to submit a middle school story, go to Podcush.com and give us every detail. And while you're online, be sure to follow. us on socials. It's at Podcrush, spelled how it sounds. And our personals are at Pembadjley, at Nava, that's Nava with three ends, and at Scribble by Sophie. And we're out. See you next week.

I'm doing too many things at once. Uh-oh. Yeah, that's really... Well, you know, gotta make hay, as they say. Do. Yeah. You got to make hay? When the sun's shining. What? What? Make hay, you gotta make hay when the sun shines or something. Stitcher.